topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • Thursday April 25, 2024, 6:42 pm
  • Proudly celebrating 15+ years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - nontroppo [ switch to compact view ]

Pages: prev1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 ... 26next
126
I found a very useful review of LR2beta here (I link to page 2 but there is also a page 1):

http://www.computer-...om_2_beta/lr-2_2.htm

For very fast local adjustments workflow, there are a set of new key shortcuts:

Open local corrections 'K'
Show/hide Pin 'H'
Increase/decrease brush size ']' / '['
Increase/decrease feather 'Alt/Option+]' / 'Alt/Option+['
Commit a brush stroke and/or start new Enter
Delete selected pin 'Delete'
Holding down 'Alt/Option' key activates erase mode

And for the basic panel:

As a result of user feedback the engineers have enhanced the Basic adjustment panel so that it's now possible to cycle through the controls using either the comma '< 'or period '>' keys. The keyboard '+/-' keys now increase/decrease the active control, and larger adjustments can be obtained by holding down the 'Shift' key when holding down the '+/-' keys. Tapping the semi-colon ';' key resets the active control to its default value.

127
I am very disappointed with V2.x though, all of that bloat has take the EXE up to 176kB!!! Luckily the usefulness has increased too to keep the usefulness/kB constant  8)

128
Phil: great info thanks! I suppose it would be ideal if the remerged the two projects back together...

justice: there was a mod (paraglider) of regshot V1.x that did exactly this, also an extra app called undoREG to work with regshot V1.x, and IIUC V2 can do this natively too (haven't tried it yet)...

EDIT: this page has a changelog going from V1.x through V2.x:

http://bbs.betabbs.c....php?showtopic=61050

129
lanux: yep I found regshot specifically after In Ctrl was no longer freeware  :)

Phil: what exactly is different about the Russian version?

130
Regshot is the little registry utility that could. Able to do a full registry and directory scan before and after any event, it spit out a detailed HTML report of the changes to your system all in a measly 72kB of .EXE goodness. Not only is it one of the most useful utilities around, it probably packs more usefulness/kB[1] than any other software I know.

Its problem has always been unreliable hosting. It has lived its online existence hosted on endlessly different servers, moving around more than a Mongolian nomad (and thus limiting its fame, along with the fact the developer is Japanese and thus less well know in the anglosphere). But it looks as if the nomad is trading the tent in for a shiny apartment in a large co-hab block; Sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/regshot
http://regshot.blog....glepages.com/regshot

Please make sure you have enough bandwidth to download the latest version, 90kB including full source. Maybe I should set up a torrent?  ;)

----
[1] Of course proper standard units are usefulness/KiB  :P

131
Both lightroom and lightzone have clone/repair tools I cant figure out either - ah well, too clever for me

Here is a quick screencast, using the heal tool to stroke my vanity and remove a wrinkle :-)

1) Select the clone/heal tool (type N) - select "Heal"
2) Choose your spot size
3) Left-click on the bit you want to "disappear" and drag to the part you want to replace it with, release.

Lightroom lets you edit each spot after you've placed them, you can change source/destination/size or delete individual spots.


132
I like what i saw in lightroom and lightzone (lightzone offers it for jpegs too and i have a lot of those)
lightroom does non-destructive edits to jpgs too. I use this because I'm playing a lot with HDR (bracket 3 exposures +-2ev then combine the light informaton into one 8-bit image), and spit my image out as a JPG instead of a TIFF to save space on my laptop HD. The JPG is reimported into LR (sits next to the 3 DNG source image) and I can then do a final few tweaks.

I thus find LR preferable to Photoshop/others for fast fixing. All edits are modifiable, my JPG stays untouched. The history shows you previews instantly of every step you took. You can see exactly what you did by hovering each history item, no need to wade through your adjustments layers toggling like crazy. I can make different snapshots or virtual copies in the same non-destructive way I can for RAWs. All of this is just metadata sitting in an SQLite database.

 Of course there are many things only Photoshop (or other higher-end pixel pusher) can do, and professional finishing is really a photoshop endeavour.

In terms of learning — just play! I didn't read any tutorials other than one on catalogs for LR (which I was confused about at the beginning). But all the develop tools were new to me (along with ACR). LR is very visual.

As an example take the histogram. Classically the histogram is fixed, you use sliders and numerical input to change the histogram. In LR just drag around on the histogram, drag shadows to the right and you are doing a fill light, drag highlights to the left and you are recovering. For someone who has never used an editor before this is neat, but if you are used to endless sliders, it can be disorienting. The HSL and tone dragging tools are similar. If you want to lighten just your blues in an image, click the circle in the luminance tab of the HSL panel and click and drag some blue in your image to lighten it. No need to fiddle around with sliders (they're there if you stil want them); edit visually.

133
Out of curiosity, I downloaded the latest ACDSee Pro 2.0.238. Got it to import about 50 RAWs and some JPGs into it. The browser is fairly clean and logically ordered. But metadata and keywording is clunky.

I find it quite disorienting when you "view" an image from thumbnails, the browser just disappears, one can only really use the filmstrip. I very much miss having a Loupe to examine photos quickly from the browser. So I tried using the film strip, then using the context menu to go to full size; it zooms in on the JPEG thumbnail and doesn't render a real preview! So the browser is not really able to show you your photos.

OK, so I have to live with a modal interface, View is the only way to "view", and one has to accept the management interface cannot be used if you want to actually see your image as it is.

So then I "edit my image", only to find this is destructive editing (and again modal). So out i go and go to RAW processing. There are two overlapping interfaces which doesn't make sense to me. And lots of the tools are actually destructive for editing.

RAW processing is pretty basic. Exposure, color, detail and cropping. Playing with sharpening I wanted to go back to see my previous edit - but there is no undo! You can reset everything but not step through changes, thus cannot do quick before after comparisons, cannot get back to a previous setting if your cat jumps on the mouse etc.

But the capital offense is indeed the RAW converter:

COMPARE.jpg

As far as i can tell, there is substantial image detail lost. Trying to recover with sharpening causes pretty noticeable artifacts. I tried to get the two apps as close as possible in terms of look (unsientific I know, but as algorithms are different there is no way to clearly equalise them). In Lightroom, look for the detail of the skin reflections, and the more subtle gradations on the fabric. With ACDsee there are weird black holes probably caused by the poorer sharpening algorithm. The skin color is flat and grey, and I couldn't get it any better.

Then there are whole important aspects of image control just not available in ACDSee. In Lightroom there are very cool mouse-adjustment tools for hue saturation and luminance for 8 color channels; this is important for more careful color control. Click on the little circle in the HSL panel and drag on a region of your image; you are intuitively adjusting that local color region the color information (same works for tones in the tone curve panel). These adjustments give you fantastic immediate control of color and tone, and are nowhere available in ACDSee. You may say well that sort of stuff is only good for preofessional, but it is not. I now consider solid management of color channels just as important as exposure and tone control.

I also miss the clarity tool, before/after comparison, great BW conversion, vignettes etc. And the whole benefit of non-destructive editing is flexibility. Lightroom gives you Snapshots and history of all your edits. You can spawn out virtual copies and stack them together with ease. And a direct interface to processing presets, applicable to batch import makes complex processing trivial even for large groups of images. ACDSee is much less flexible, I can't even undo settings changes during RAW processing!

The local enhancements are destructive in ACDSee, so I won't try comparing them. Lightroom is just too far ahead here. I can't emphasise how sensational it is to do local adjustment, then tweak it however i want later, save sets of different adjustments. It is all metadata, no pixels are being harmed. In the screenshot above my previous post, my eye is locally enhanced (one set is exposure, another is tint), i can toggle these setting around, tweak parameters without ever having to "undo".

I think as a browser ACDSee is OK, though I dislike its modal nature and inability to see my image properly in the browser. But as a RAW processor, I would never use it. Detail being lost (or at least cannot be recovered) is the killer, but the feature set is weak, and the flexibility to very limited. I personally wouldn't pay $130 for it.

134
Lightroom seems fine, very slick and all - but i dont really see that many advantages over acdsee.

Main thing for me is a good RAW engine - I always had issues with ACDSee and their colour profiles suck!
-Carol Haynes (April 05, 2008, 03:20 PM)

This is of course a critical point; what RAW engine are they using, what are its weaknesses or strengths?

135
Hm, I took to the Lightroom interface like a duck to water, probably because it was similar to Bibble Pro much more than it is to Photoshop (PS and LR are not similar design wise at all, and you certainly don't need PS to benefit greatly from LR). I find Lightzone more difficult to use than Lightroom, and that is even when they are quite similar UI wise.

The very good thing with Lightroom is that there are tons of tutorials (inc. many free from Adobe) and tips out there for many aspects of its functionality:

http://www.photoshop...troom/tutorials.html

or just search Google.

The critical thing for me are the keyboard shortcuts and transparent UI, learn those and you fly through the interface: D - develop, G - grid view, C - compare view, TAB - toggle left/right panels, SHIFT+TAB - toggle all panels, L - lights out, F - full-screen mode, J - show highlight/shadow clipping, I - show info, R - crop (in develop module), 1-5 - rate image, X - mark for deletion, B - add to quick collection.

And there doesnt seem to be a way to say "i didnt like what i did DO NOT save it" 

You have many options:
1) UNDO/REDO as in any other app.
2) History in the Left panel (F7 toggles it).
3) Left panel > Snapshots > Import reverts back to the original. I save several snapshots as I work to give me different ideas. Each snaphot has its own history, amazingly flexible. If I really like two snapshots, then i create a virtual copy of the image (CTRL+')

It seems that every time I move a slider in a tool it adds it to the history. I dont want to apply sharpening 22 times, i want to find the right setting.
I don't see why you think saving the history of your edits is wrong? I may want to try two different sharpen settings, and simply toggle back/forth in the history. If, as you said, all sharpen operations were collapsed into one, i'd lose that flexibility.

And through all of this the image does not sharpen one bit.
You need to be zoomed in 1:1 i.e. 100% (Z - zoom tool, D - loupe and click image) for sharpening/detail to be observed. There is a ! exclamation point in the interface of the sharpen panel when you are not at 1:1 zoom warning you you will not see your edits.

Here is a useful (critical) key when sharpening in Lightroom: ALT — zoom to 1:1 and first hold ALT and drag the mask slider. This is limit your sharpening to higher contrast edges. Second, hold ALT and drag amount, radius and detail to taste.

If you want to see what effect any edit has in a particular module, you can toggle its effect on and off, so for sharpening:

Picture 2.jpg

That gives you very quick way to see exactly what you are doing in that domain.

Hope some of that makes sense ;-)



136
Thanks Carol, good to know combined we are more than the sum of our deficiencies ;)

Playing with the beta last night, oh boy do I *love* the local adjustments. Very fast way to really enhance and fix photos. The adjustments are exposure, brightness, tint, clarity and saturation. Note all those settings can be adjusted within the same mask, so you can for example target just the iris of the eye, increasing clarity, giving an exposure boost and enhancing the eye colour in one simple, painted-on adjustment!

Also a nice unmentioned change is that detail (sharpness, noise reduction, fringe elimnation) adjustment now has a floating preview irrespective of your zoom level.

137
Whatever was released about a year ago (version numbers of trialed software tends to slip out of my limited neural storge buffer!)  ;)

138
iphigenie: great RAW summary  :Thmbsup:

But JPG should still die :P JPEG2000 offers the same or better metadata support IIRC and far better compression, and Microsoft's new HDphoto or whatever they call it is even better.

Carol: I never got round to testing DxO, it looked great from its web page, but I didn't need the optical correction and nothing else seemed quite compelling enough. Bibble Pro offered optical correction and had a better RAW conversion engine according to a review I read some time ago, so I chose to trial it over DxO. And I really liked Bibble a lot, until Lightroom came along...

http://bibblelabs.com/

Bibble do have a *great* RAW engine, very competitive with Lightroom, Aperture or CaptureOne. I would trust it over ACDSee Pro without a doubt.

I've never got along with CaptureOne, I found weaknesses in the RAW converter (ugly noise patterns at high ISO), found the GUI clunky and the developing tools a bit lightweight.

139
MrCrispy: Oh, and I'm no Pro photographer either, but I hugely value RAW processing. It means more fun at playing around with the images I take, and critically, being able to save a badly taken photo that would be unusable if it was JPG. You also worry less taking the photo, as exposure, white balance and other settings are less important when taking RAW.

140
MrCrispy: Ha, I chose Lightroom for its speed compared to Aperture, Bibble or Capture One ;) I think Lightroom works better on OS X than under XP. As I've never had performance issues in Lightroom (2500 RAW and 1000 JPGs) so far I can't tell you if the beta is "faster"

iphigenie: Yes, I didn't know that before just checking their web page. I have to say I'm dubious as to the quality of their RAW converter. Do they use a proprietary engine or one of the open-source efforts? RAW conversion is a non-trivial enterprise.

141
J-Mac: Yes, I turn my nose up at JPGs now I'm used to RAWs (from a Canon 350D); the processing flexibility and freedom is so much greater. And luckily a growing number of point-and-clicks are supporting RAW out (and for many Canons you can actually use a custom firmware to gain RAW support). I hope JPG will die its death as soon as possible, but the inertia in image formats is huge.

J-Mac, for a user without getting bits bundled elsewhere as you did, I'm sure for the collected price of your 3 apps one must be close the the price of Lightroom?

Actually looking at the feature list of ACDSee Pro 2 it seems to be in the same competitive arena as Lightroom/Bibble/Capture One/Aperture. I've not tried it (I had bad experiences with ACDSee in the past), but maybe it is as competitive as the marketing spiel suggests?

142
The holy grail among RAW processing apps is localised image adjustment within app. Lightzone was the first app to allow selective non-destructive editing of image areas, but being Java-based it is slow on all but the fastest hardware. And the interface is not really optimised for the other aspects of image management (metadata, collections, printing etc).

Apple just released aperture 2.1 with plugin support for localised adjustment. However, Aperture actually spits out a TIFF and thus the non-destructive, re-editability is compromised (but the workflow is smoother).

So with extreme delight, I saw the Lightroom team have released a beta of the next version with Lightroom. The killer feature being localised, non-destructive dodge-and-burn. The other killer feature is that it will be a 64bit app, benefiting in terms of memory use and performance (Adobe have released no benchmarks to verify this yet). Numerous other interface and feature changes make this an amazing update. Lightroom is a fantastic app already, and pretty interesting in many ways. For example, the beautiful interface is actually coded in Lua, the worlds fastest and smallest embeddable scripting language.

John Nack, the blogger extrodinaire for the Photoshop team has the best summary of the release:

http://blogs.adobe.c...lightroom_2_the.html

You can download it at:

http://labs.adobe.co...hnologies/lightroom/

 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Does anyone else here use Lightroom? Use another RAW workflow or photo manager?

143
General Software Discussion / Re: What's the current 'killer app'?
« on: April 02, 2008, 11:27 PM »
Yipeee! My killer app in doubt is in doubt no more. Lightroom have just introduced V2.0 public beta with in-situ dodge-burn, and apparently full 64-bit app support. I'll post a seperate thread about it I'm so excited!!!!

144
I don't know whether I'd call it love just yet  :P I think this functionality *should* be integrated into the OS at its core, but I've not had a smooth experience with Vista's search so far...

145
General Software Discussion / Re: What's the current 'killer app'?
« on: April 02, 2008, 06:35 AM »
The key is preventing any company from owning a protocol on the internet, because if that were to happen, then the internet will fail. It would be all over in a flash. The bulk of its value will disappear by virtue of corporate restriction and fees for various types of controlled access beyond what we suffer now.

This is why I've been consistently anti-IE since its rise to dominance; my dislike of it is much more political (fear of losing the holy grail of free open HTML interoperability) than it is technical (though IEs technical aspects also deserves large heaps of disdain too)...  ;)


----
iphigenie: yes, though some do it *far* more elegantly than others :)

146
Thanks justice. I now realise Vista's search is pretty bare-bones by default. No content searching, only the start menu and user files indexed; but a weird collection of useless filetypes indexed. I guess I've been spoilt by Leopard's Spotlight and FARR.


Still I will ignore Zaine  :P and persevere: no FARR and no 3rd-party indexer until I've given Vista its fair chance.

147
General Software Discussion / Re: What's the current 'killer app'?
« on: April 02, 2008, 04:31 AM »
Scrivener is the app I've known people buying a Mac for. It is the app I longed for for a long time, and most clearly guarantees I wont leave my current OS platform.

As a camera lover I was also going to say Adobe Lightroom (I use the old *king* of Killer apps Photoshop a lot less ;)), but Apple's Aperture 2.1 has just  implemented a non-destructive plugin system so my killer app may have just been killed (dodge-and-burn *within* the RAW workflow is seriously sexy)...

I think Final Cut Pro was and still is a (domain specific) killer app (it won a hefty chunk of the indie film/documentary market), but i have a soft spot for Sony's Vegas still.

148
I have a new desktop machine which I'm going to force myself to use vista on for more than a few days. I don't want to waste time on learning its ins-and-outs however.

So far the experience has been smoother than my last attempts, but the start menu search drives me nuts. I have a folder in my Program Files with utilities, none of which come up in the menu. So I added a shortcut, but the shortcut gets a different place in the menu compared to the programs it knows about. Why doesn't it just index Program files without such arbitrary distinctions. Where do I manage this?

149
mouser: sentiments shared perfectly!  :up: Luckily on the Mac, the Thomson stranglehold is less comprehensive. There are two excellent modern apps, Sente and Bookends, that survive outside of the Endnote kingdom. They are close to dream reference manager apps overall, from small responsive indie developers.

I've used Jabref in the past in my long-lasting exploration to escape from Reference manager/endnote. But being pretty addicted to cite-while-you-write, I didn't like the workflow it offered. I also couldn't get it to handle the RIS MIME-types for quick reference downloads into the app. Has that changed?

I've been dreaming about OOoBib since it first formulated itself a few years ago, but one cannot live on dreams alone (and certainly can't cite with them!)

150
...but I just am too attached to my windows software right now to do it.

You'd be surprised how quickly new attachments can form...   :P

Pages: prev1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 ... 26next