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Messages - 4vrqrisPt [ switch to compact view ]

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This is a scream ROFL  :lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how long it will be before M$ will try to shutdown this site because of supposed name patent infringement.
better save it with HTTrack  :)


Actually I used dialing through the modem since I loaded XP
almost exactly 4 years ago,just using XP's native dialing app.
I also use it to send and receive fax -XP native MS Fax Console.
One thing though,you really have to protect this setup very well to avoid rogue dialers,but you're right,it is handy.

Don't worry about being "the only one" who uses modem dialing  :)
One thing you can be sure of:Whatever you do,there will be another few thousand people who do the same thing,except they may not be in your immediate environment ;D
But since I'm also on cable,I tend to use VOIP whenever I can and as you know,Skype and others have their own quick dial setup.

Hi, this will be a combination answer to Josh and f0dder:

To Josh:Thanks for your clarification.
I am used to being forced to have to "defend" myself against people who are quite ready to attack on the sites that arent as nice as this one where people actually use common sense.
I understand,but that is purely a personal thing.Nobody forces you to do anything(Government excluded,I guess :) )
The point being,you have one experience,someone else has another.
That doesn't make either one, right or wrong.

You are right about the perception of "bloat".In a strictly AV application there may be little feature bloat, but then I come
to f0dder's assessment.

[Remember that there's both feature- and code-bloat. The home editions certainly suffer from code bloat... sluggish memory/cpu hogs./quote]
For me that happened to be true,  and also
Anyways, You are right, it is quite easy to overlook the processes being used by a program as complex as an a/v.

Indeed. And the kernel-mode components aren't even visible in taskmgr or process explorer... then there's all the various services that some of the products include (scheduler, on-demand engine, bla bla bla).

I was amazed what I found when you do some digging,
by using Sysinternals Process Explorer or even FaberToys.
I am not referring to any particular program,but many apps are using
components or modules,that show up under Windows Explorer or svchost.
Yet in TaskManager their main executable shows a respectful use of
memory and CPU.But like I said,Windows Explorer may very well have increased its use of Memory/CPU.
The average person will not know what really happened.
It's only when you start digging that you find out why certain apps
are slowing your system.

All this is to say that if one is happy with a certain program,
keep it, if not "out she goes".
For me there is no emotional attachment.
I might defend an author or developer (like "mouser")if I feel
that their integrity is attacked,but as to software,sometimes
there are as many opinions and experiences as there are people :)

So,back to finding an AV program without "bloat" :)


Hi, Yes mouser,you're right.

and to Josh:I appreciate your conciliatory answer.
There was nothing in my original post to indicate an attack on your views.Quite the contrary.Just re-read it.
It's all in interpretation.

Granted,my experience has been with non Corporate- or Enterprise
editions of Symantec.
Even so,if my- or anyone elses experience has been that the software
is bloated or is a memory or CPU hog,they should be able to express that.This in no way indicates a personal attack on somebody's views.

Like I said:"Just another point of view".

We are all users of software.I don't see my role as a defender of a certain piece of software.
I'm not an employee of those companies and even if I were,I would not defend anything that is not quite right.

As to questioning your ability to check memory:It was certainly not meant that way,but it is easily overlooked how many processes or services are involved in the running of certain software.

Well that's it for now


To Josh,

I will stop this right here.I will not dignify this with any more
reponses to your post.
Your arrogant and abrasive repose is totally uncalled for.
I'm sorry I misjudged you character.I thought you were a better person than that.


Hi,I'll make this short since it's a side issue:
IMHO firefox/mozilla is bloated...
That may well be.I only used it as an example of modular usage.
There's no doubt that coding efficiency may well be improved upon.


To Josh,

Thanks for your excellent post.
Overall I agree with you.However,there are a few things I'd like to mention:
The problem with bloat is one that will never be solved. As corporations grow, they continue to add to their software, features that their customers request. So, what might seem like bloat to you, is a great feature to another. This isn't just resorting to antivirus programs, but to all software. People call MS Office bloated, but you know, half of those features would not exist were it not for someone requesting them.
There is a solution to bloat:It's all in the way the programs are coded.As an example take the Mozilla Project.Lets say Firefox or Thunderbird.These are modular.(With plugins or add-ons)
You only add what you want.This leaves the choice of features totally
up to the user,rather than having a huge Program,where half or
more are features that you don't use.
You mention MS Office.For most people it is bloated.
However,when you take the modular approach,eg you would have a central control panel where you could add or remove the features as desired.With the proper coding,you would not have to reboot or even restart the program after you make a change.A simple refresh should do it.
But no,because of their proprietary nature,these developers.from MS
and others,won't change their ways.It's a mindset,nothing else or call it shortsightedness.

As to Symantec,same story.
You say that their Anti-Virus uses only 30MB of ram.Have you really added up all the processes and services that are needed to run this?I think you'll come out with more than 30MB.
Besides that,you're right,it's not the Memory usage as it is CPU usage that is important.
Anyway,with 256 MB of RAM,you can't be running any games or graphics
applications.You"ll soon be stalling(freezing) the whole works.

But in general your comments are well taken.Thanks.

Just another point of view,

Thanks wr975,

Great find.Yes I heard about this before,but never actually
saw how it was to be done.
Like I said,it doesn't really bother me,but I will try this out
later tonight.

Here's another tip:If you're in N.America,the updates download faster
if you set the updating time for the evening hours.
That makes it early morning for the servers in Germany.
They seem to be less busy at that time.


I've run into the same problem with bloat.
Norton being one of them.
At the moment I run AntiVir personal Classic (Free)from Avira
Even the premium version is very reasonable at about $20 or so/year
This program is very easy on your system.the only thing is a
nag screen when it updates.To me that is no big deal,one click and it's gone.
I'm quite happy with it and it seems to catch the crap :)
You may want to give it a try.


OK, let me add my 2 cents worth.
I totally agree with  "tinyvillager's" assessment.
I came very close to posting in the alt.comp.freeware forum,
but decided it would be a total waste of time.

A lot of these people are ignorant and selfish.
There is absolutely nothing free in this world.
I was told this by my father when I was about 7 years old
and how true it is.

Some things may be "free" to you but somebody has to pay.
in the case of "freeware" , the author pays with countless hours
of coding,not to mention his/her equipment,ISP and website costs,
loss of free time to spend with their family etc etc

I think their (the many alt.comp.freeware people)attitude is
totally insulting to the software authors.
Not only that,but they act like they have the right to "Freeware".
Just ask many freeware authors,they will tell you how demanding
some people can be to the point of being totally obnoxious.

I think that "mouser" has found a very good balance with his
approach to DonationCoder.This approach is fair and very unique,
but unfortunately not appreciated by a few selfish individuals.

Thumbs up for "mouser".
To the supporters of DonationCoder:Consider yourselves more
enlightened than the other ignorant bunch.


Yes,it's the corrupted :) contraction of forever curious !
and I'll be that way till the day I die :)


Really enjoyed your article.It was long :) but done very well.
The concept of DonationCoder was very well considered and implemented.
It is my belief that the concept serves as an example how things can be done the right way.
It's my wish that coders wordwide join DonationCoder to form
the largest repository of software anywhere.
It would create a more equitable situation for freeware developers.
Again,thanks very much.


What's the Best? / Re: Anti-Virus Package
« on: March 04, 2006, 03:41 PM »
Hi, I have been using Antivir personal for 6 months now,after I dumped Norton,which I found too bloated and too many processes running and a resource hog.
As was mentioned before,with the latest update to v7 no more nagscreen,at least for me.
Just a little notifier at the top of the screen.
Updates are fast and unproblematic.Mind you I have the update set to once a day at 10 pm EST (Canada/US,that's very early morning in Germany.)
Trying this during the daytime is not as fast.
Regarding scanning individual folders or files:At first impression it seems that you can't,not in the GUI,but on a r-click(extension menu) I can scan any folder or file no problem.
No POP scanning:Again no problem for me since I use a email pre-checker,plus what has already been removed by my ISP's virus scanners.
ALL in all, I'm quite happy with it,although I'm contemplating buying the Premium version:1.because it's cheap
and 2.because of their philosophy and the donation they make.
That's all for now.

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