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Messages - artplus [ switch to compact view ]

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1
Dale, without any personal attack, I'd like to ask you few, I think, legitimate questions:

This company Artplus Software, offers some nice applications as promotional tools for business marketing. Their marketing tools are "catchy"

Thanks. 

And so the software seems good at first - but - when you realize that this promotional tool produces aggravating frustrations in your client base

Could you elaborate the above quote? What frustrations?

They get a gift that's much more appealing and useful then say some silly screen saver. And it's a gift! So where's the frustration. Not everyone is always on the run to get the newest and the latest in tech. Not everyone test everything to see if there's something missing or not. Most of the people get software, see if they can use it and if they can they do, if they don't they ditch it... that's life of a piece of software.

I noticed that you often fall in love with a product but after a while turn back against it... for instance GemX too. You used to endorse it wholeheartedly but on this forum again, you've turned the page and posted opinions about it similar to those about Art Plus. In case of GemX it's even worst. You endorsed it in April this year... turned against the developer in September (this year both).

You're obviously closely watching every piece of software you get. Which is fine, but you must understand that not all people are that vigilant nor do they require the same functionality like you.


There are many bugs and fixes needed but there is no development. There are some serious issues that are simply ignored by the developer and sales people.

What serious issues?

Mind you, what you THINK is a serious issue may not be so for all the users of the software... anyway, please tell me what are you talking about?

But watch out for the END USERS who fall victim to this sour promotional tool that delivers no support.

Okay... let me quote what you've said few lines latter in your post:

I sent them countless emails that are answered in due time

So how can you say that there is no support after stating that?

I've spent nearly $200.00 in purchases for their softwares that are NEVER updated. So if you think that your clients will enjoy using software like easynoter with absolutely no support

Yes, you've spent some $200 on our products in about a year and a half span. From March 2002 to November 2003 to be exact. Thanks.

But only program that was not upGRADED (with MAJOR version update) since that time was EasyNoter (that was updated from 3.0 to 3.7). MemoGame builder has been updated (got a GOM status for a while but was in the meantime removed from distribution), Calendar Designer went from 1.0 to 2, Wallpaper Calendar from 4.0 to 5.0 (with 6 around the corner) and Gift-O-Mat from 1.0 to 2.0 and from simple Lite to Lite+ and STD+ (the later was recently remover from distribution). Also, we promptly issue updates that could actually cause any problems to end user, like XP and Vista patches.

Out of the programs that you didn't buy, we released three versions of Digital Photo Recovery and five of xTerminator anti spam. The latest of both were released this month.

By the way, those programs that were removed from distribution are removed because we decided to offer customization as a service rather then sell the tools for few bucks. Same tools are still available to our partners that get it for free and use it to run a business based on them paying us royalties. Those GOM's were actually creating a competition to our partners and were removed due to that.

So... while you obviously haven't noticed, there has been pretty lively at Art Plus those past few years. Just maybe not in a way that you would prefer.

you're headed for trouble...and your clients too... because when they use the "promotional" tools, they eventually opt for PRO versions

Not so! This may be so if you would be using OLD FREE version of GOM Lite or current SkinGenerator Xtra that indeed bundle our own Lite version just with your skin design. However, those versions are strictly for personal and noncommercial use so...

Regular GOM's with commercial license create a packages with EasyNoter Lite or STD but without any mention about PRO version upgrade path to purchase. YES, it DOES contain our company name and link in About box as we ARE original concept developers and Copyright and Trademark holders. That's our right and obligation to display on a usual place, in About box. Anyway, I don't remember you ever complained about that...

You can use the promotional tools to distribute an unlimited number of copies of easynoter lite which of course, is feature disabled or limited.

No. That is NOT correct!

When you say software is feature disabled that means some link or button, when clicked, will instead of an expected function display a message stating something like... "buy and upgrade to get this".

This does not happen even in our regular free version and most certainly doesn't happen in  EasyNoter Lite/STD created by our GOM series for commercial use.

I hope no one sees this post as being a personal attack. I'm merely using an opportunity to get more information and, if you wish, defend our products from allegations that I find unfounded.

Cheers,

Neven

2
Hi All,

I think I have to explain my position on existence of this forum as everyone here feels as if I WANT it removed. Well, I don't. Or rather, I don't care. Namely, I didn't ask Mouser to remove the forum, not even this particular topic. Hell, I even gave it some more life by starting a debate with Dale (Doublewitt). I doubt this would go any further if I wouldn't have intervened. Art Plus is not a Microsoft that would attract a zillion posters join, right? Unfortunately... sigh...  :-[

No, what I meant to say was that the things got "ugly" before my intervention. So, I'm not ready to accept the blame for what's going on. Everyone who posts here and moderators and owners of the site before them should all take the blame. That's all. Now, if it's okay for everyone to continue posting here, I just honestly believe there is no reason for me not to.

I don't really think this is some problematic forum! There are many places around similar to this one where people can post their opinion and we all know that not all "opinions" are really just that. I also think that you can't blame a kitchen knife manufacturer if someone get's the knife and uses it to kill someone. In this case the forum is only the "knife". People can slice a bread with it ot... stab someone... (in the back... sorry Dale... couldn't resist it  :-[ )

So no, I'm not asking Mouser to remove the forum. It does have potential pitfalls but... I'm not going to press that.

However, Neven is right, maybe it would be fair and much more interesting if companies are automatically notified so they can take an action and respond (or not to respond, which gives valuable information, too)? Simple mandatory "Company e-mail" field would be enough.

Depends... this option could also be a trigger for some people to actually "pick fight" with a company so... more trouble for the moderator again.

In this particular case, while I was reading initial post of this topic, I thought that it was slightly overreacted, although I can understand why (doublewitt, don't get me wrong). It's important to understand that any company has a right to choose to prolong or completely cease development if they decide so, as long as they don't advisedly make explicit promises in order to gain a clear benefit, which wasn't the case here I believe. The reasons can be various: temporary assigning resources to another projects, deciding that further development is not profitable anymore, etc. This is a business decision that can't be made outside of the company.

I wouldn't have put it better myself!

Except... EasyNoter still IS profitable and, as Dale will remember (but no longer believes in it which I can understand), we DID and DO plan to upgrade it (rather then just update). Only problem is, we've been postponing it for long time as there was no immediate benefit for us to push the release while on the other hand we DID have immediate benefits working on other projects.

Yes, EasyNoter is probably not the best software around for some specific purposes but it DOES the job and people are still buying it as is! Dale is no longer happy... Okay, photography is my hobby... when I was no longer happy with my first Olympus DSLR camera I purchased Canon. I didn't ask Olympus to create a new camera for me... and then they released a New camera but alas... it was too late for me.

Why would it be different for software?

Za kraj, Nevene, pozdrav iz Novog Sada. :)

Hi Vradmilovic  :)

But, don't confuse people. Now they'll think you're defending my case cause you're from Croatia too...  ;D

Nope folks... he's not from Croatia. He just shares my views as he does the language (to some point... for both)  :Thmbsup:

3
Was that part edited since I replied? Or I missed it somehow?

ALSO, you are very much out-of-line trying to reveal private email info publicly

I'm not going to do that. I asked you if you wish this to happen. I have nothing to hide.

I didn't even publish your full name.

and also twisting it's sense and meaning... a very ill practice indeed...

Okay. I guess we'll have to stop somewhere so it might as well be here...

Cheers,

Neven


4
People do need a way to express their frustrations about companies, and warn their friends.

I agree with most of the things that you've said but the part that I quoted is a problem... or at least one word is: Frustration.

Frustration makes people do things that they normally wouldn't do. Or at least people get carried away and make more damage than may have been deserved.

As far as only allowing one side of the story -- I do think this thread shows that this is not the case.

Not really. Yes, I'm allowed to post here. But it's a pure coincidence I found out about this post. Nobody checked the other party claims nor contacted me for comment. That's nearly as effective prevention as a possible ban itself.

Anyway, I'm not saying you should remove the topic. I just say it's not all that rosy anywhere on the Net and things can be ugly under your nose without you noticing it. (You may wish to check a comment I've sent few minutes ago to Carol Haynes BTW)

5
I'm not sure how to respond to this thread..
It got personal and ugly quickly..

Hi Mouser,

I don't think things could escalate any more as I know Dale well enough and I know there are lines he will not cross. Also, I said what I thought I should say so I don't feel the need to "pile" more either.

I'd like to post a comment to you as an admin though. You may think that the things got ugly after I joined the discussion but I think it got ugly before that. It got ugly even before Dale's initial post on this particular topic. I think it got ugly the moment you decided to open a forum topic for company complaints. I know this may look appealing (I used to be the publisher myself, Byte Croatia as McGraw-Hill's Byte USA, Licensee some 15 years ago) but it's actually quite ugly and unfair to offer such an option at all. Namely, just like path to the Hell that's paved with good intentions, this option too usually gets abused by loose canons. And I don't mean people like Dale (who, as I know, really spoke his thoughts), but sometimes also by malicious people that simply use such forums to slander competition. Not to mention the fact that you're allowing only one side of the story to be heard. Now THAT I call ugly!

My 2c

Best,

Neven

6
It's too bad, Neven, cause I invested in your work as I believed in it, and I went out-of-my-way to express how I appreciated your talent. You are a gifted programmer.

Thanks. But I'm not a programmer. I'm involved with the program creation, yes, but mostly from design and marketing point of view. Collecting users feedback and translating wishes into design or functionality changes (when possible).

But, easynoter is still on the shelf! A little tweak for XP, and then Vista (that nobody wants) doesn't really balance on the scale. Fair is fair, I wrote often expressing my frustrations and you basically didn't care and so, that's why this issue is here today.

Yes, you wrote asking about updates frequently. Frustrated? Once! And then you apologized. For me that was EOD and we went on with few more support related inquiries of yours. That was about a year ago. Haven't heard from your since... and was "lucky" enough to notice your today's post...

You won't have me believe that I'm the only rooster in town!

Of course not. We don't have three or four users you know. And if you have a lot of people using your software you get a lot of complaints (as well as praises). But I did recognize you. Didn't I? And you're not signed in with your name,nor is your address visible. All I knew is what you've said here and have found out that you're a Canadian. Bingo! Your year old angry post came to mind instantly because we really don't have many of those, AND because your angry message (then) came as a surprise as I already remembered you as a "friend"!

We do get occasional complaint, but this people come and go, I never remember their name. Also, I don't remember any complaints about us not updating our software. For that, you're really unique. It's as if we've sold you a license with lifetime free upgrades. Well, we don't do that. We sell it as-is. Upgrades are sold separately as is. It's truth that version 3 has been around for a long time but it did came to 3 from somewhere... 3.7 to be exact...

Since we're selling upgrades too, it's in our best interest to release upgrades occasionally but as you know (from our private correspondence) we had some OEM/VAR orders in the past that we couldn't passed because... we'll it's our bread and butter just as much (if not more) as is end user software development.

Maybe you can move away from the personal offense attitude and realize that you are representing a company - that's what counts the most. This is not a personal conflict debate, but rather, this is a company issue... let's keep things in line.

Well... since we really had a "fruitful" and almost private correspondence in the past few years (I believe it goes waaay back to 2002...) I did find your posts as a personal attack of a sort.

Perhaps, you can start to use this thread as an "opportunity" to win more clients instead of pushing conflict - and that I won't get involved in...

I don't need the conflict either... I just wanted to respond since I noticed this is a fresh post and I haven't heard from you for more then a year. I've said what I felt like saying so we can drop it as is...

7
Well, sorry for your response... it lacks a lot of class. To clear things up, and first of all, reporting about companies who leave users with their problems and refuse to develop their softwares is not a slander and it's not a lie. Your reaction is out-of-swing. easynoter has been sitting on the shelf for years and I know plenty who have left it completely as you have left them... when I purchased easynoter, I was told that it was under development - that is an engagement - a form of promise - or maybe we shouldn't take you seriously when you speak. Basically, and truthfully, when we purchase software, we inquire for future projections and rely on your word which is like the shifting sands...

I was expecting a much more classy response...

Hey, Dale... It really is you!  :D

It was a long shot but I guessed right  :D

Classy?

Dale? After 50 or so messages, VERY friendly where I actually shared some insiders information with you and considered you ALMOST a friend, you turn against me by posting things like this around? Mind you that I had only about two or three bad messages from you and that you actually decided to apologize for it later... I thought I understood. And now this?

And yes, it is a lie and a slander because you said that we made a promise at purchase! That's simply not the fact!

All that I ever said about our plans was a friendly chat about plans and expectations. Not promises and all that WELL after the purchase! Actually, you purchased five of our products and got some gifts aside. You of all the people!? I think I understand your feelings and disappointment with our work lately, but you should also know that I see your actions like a stab in a back!

8
Well, the concept is good and the products are nice [based on their release a few years ago...] but the results are outrageous! At the time of purchase, there was all kinds of promises for updates and developments - but it actually turns out otherwise. And after announcing to me (by email), various development projects, he [Neven Prasnikar], later on, cancelled everything! The concept would be much better if they kept up with the trends [software development]. That way, it would be an interesting promotional tool with something to offer - not a dead-end street!

Hi Dale,

Nice to hear from you again... Thank you for your post here. I just checked our website logs and clicked to this referal only to find out that my vorthy customer is slandering my product again. To be fair,maybe we should post all of our correspondence here for people to get to know you better?

Oh, by the way, for those who don't know me, I'm Neven Prasnikar that Dale (Doublewitt) mentioned above in relation to that poorly designed and never updated software. Dale is an old "friend" of ours with whom I personally exchanged some oh... roughly 50 support messages in the past ranging from "outrage" that our program is not getting any updates every week to apologies for being a "hard customer" etc. In the meantime, it looks like Dale found a meaning of life! That's... slander people on the net, how cool  :P

Whatever.

Dale, we're updating our software when it's required by our customerS. That capital S is not a typing error. I'm talking about multiple customers and not a single disgruntled one (that I even know by name no matter how hard he's trying to hide). We're still selling the same old program to happy customers following the simple logic... don't fix it if it isn't broken! Well, EasyNoter isn't broken. Only thing that required an update was installer to handle new Vista imposed requirements. And that's updated few months ago.

Anyway... think about the fact that I actually know who you are even though you used an alias here. I know who you are because such a... how do I put it... silly (?) person lying about some "promises made at the time of purchase" is in our case indeed a rare gem.

Oh, yes, I called you a liar too! We NEVER make any promises at the time of purchase! Yes, I did mention some plans in our later, at first very friendly, correspondence. And yes, our plans changed and priorities shifted to releasing other software. But PROMISE!? That's a lie and actually a libelous slander.

Don't worry though. We're not thinking about suing you. You're a silly benign guy (frankly I feel sorry for you). If I would consider your "actions" a threat I wouldn't post here either. First rule of Public Relations is NOT to get engaged in public debates with disgruntled users as they tend to be more likely to get mad and spread even more lies about you in the future. Well, I don't really care. Some people will fall for your lies and will eventually (maybe even honestly) see that our product is NOT for them. But there will also be people who will rather visit our site and check for themselves and that will happen to like our product. So, you'll actually help us sell more programs.

Someone did click the link you posted above you know. That's how I noticed this post in the first place. And this post will stay here... and more people who maybe never heard of Art Plus (http://www.artplus.hr) will visit our site thanks to you  :Thmbsup:

Not everything is for everybody. Our programs are not for you. Well... sorry. Really... I am!

Please do make me a favor though. DON'T buy any programs from us in the future, okay? Thanks!

Cheers,

Neven Prasnikar
Art Plus Marketing & Publishing, Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.artplus.hr
Publishers of Infamous EasyNoter!  :-[

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