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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: superboyac on September 08, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Hi everyone, I have a question about a topic I am unfamiliar with. I am writing a book (medieval fantasy/warrior type). I want to have lots of illustrations in the novel, but the cost for good ones will be way too much. That is, hiring an artist to do it is not within my budget. So, the easiest and cheapest solution I can think of is to do the art on the computer, and that way it can look, clean, attractive and eye-catching, without all the manual labor. I don't like computer art, I prefer hand drawn stuff, but doing it on the computer will get more bang for the buck.
So, I wanted to know how much services would cost to hire this kind of thing. If any of you are familiar, please chime in and give advice. I'm initially thinking of hiring a kid, like a high school student or college student who needs a little money. I used to draw when i was in HS and a few bucks for it was a big deal. I won't be able to afford a real pro. I'm probably going to need around 100 rendered scenes. Some with mostly scenery, and others with warriors (knights) fighting.
Some of the options I thought of are listed below, but I don't know if some of these things exist:
--Could I buy some kind of ready made package of pre-created 3D templates (humans, trees, landscapes, etc.) and use them to put together my own scene in a software package? Then I can render and color and slightly tweak the things myself. I can pose the figures and so on. I am imagining this to be my cheapest option, but I am not sure anything like this exists.
--The other option based on the above, is to just hire a computer artist to create all the things himself, and then I tell him how I want the scenes to be and he does it himself. But he wouldn't have to keep drawing the same characters over and over because it would be on the computer. He'd just need to use different poses and different scenes. This should be a lot cheaper than an artist creating each scene by hand.
So those are my ideas so far. Anyone have any insight into this? Thanks.
The "look" I am going for is shown in the examples below. Obviously, I can't expect that kind of quality, but that is the goal.
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Hoo Boy! You do know how to ask a question... ;D
Gonna need a little time to work something up for you on that one.
But one big question for you before we start: Are you open to a collaborative partner (i.e. Story by: X Illustrated by: Y) or are you looking to do a "work for hire" agreement whereby you pay the artist for full ownership rights?
8)
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re: Prices
You can get a ballpark idea of prices (and the mindset behind commercial art) by looking at a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines. This is the book most of the Pros look at even if they don't follow it.
IMHO, the Artist's Guild pricing guidelines fall somewhat into the category of 'wishful thinking' since most graphic professionals I know tell me they'd like to charge what they see suggested in this book.
Prices will also vary widely by geographic region, so take the Guild's numbers with a grain of salt. Something to look at. But not gospel by any stretch. Some interesting comments on this title are posted over at Amazon. ( www.amazon.com/Graphic-Artists-Guild-Handbook-Guidelines/dp/0932102123 ). Might be worth a look.
Be back in a bit with some more. :Thmbsup:
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But one big question for you before we start: Are you open to a collaborative partner (i.e. Story by: X Illustrated by: Y) or are you looking to do a "work for hire" agreement whereby you pay the artist for full ownership rights?
-40hz
Thanks for the response, 40hz. That's true, I forgot that you are an artist! You did my computer building illustration!
Yes, good question. We need to have full ownership rights so we can reproduce it freely. I don't know what all this entails. For the moment, I don't have much money to spend on it. And I doubt it will be a financial success, so I can't count on that. So I don't really know how to approach this. I've seen prices that were surprisingly low, and some very high, so I have no idea what to expect. I am rather certain that I cannot expect the quality I have shown above for anything I can afford.
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I was going to suggest looking for someone to join in on the project too - that way you could possibly get someone doing it for love + whatever cut of possible profits & maybe get much higher standard stuff
btw why wouldnt it sell!?
If you going to go for it - then go for it man!
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I was going to suggest looking for someone to join in on the project too - that way you could possibly get someone doing it for love + whatever cut of possible profits & maybe get much higher standard stuff
btw why wouldnt it sell!?
If you going to go for it - then go for it man!
-tomos
yeah, i was thinking about that. but I just don't know if we'll go for it. This is sort of a lifelong dream of ours and we've been through a great deal of stuff to get to this point, I don't know if we are willing to share it with anyone who hasn't been involved in all of that. It would be easier to just own it. But it's not something I have thought about enough, or know enough to say definitely. I mean, what are we talking about, as far as sharing? If it's low like 5%, then maybe we consider it. but I doubt we consider something like 30%. It's not that we don't understand or appreciate the talent involved in the work, it's just that we can't justify the sharing knowing what we've been through.
As for the success of it, I don't know. The things i like are never really that popular. We are going to go all out on it, but success is such a tricky thing, and the things we like don't normally fall into the successful/popular category. At best, they are acclaimed critically.
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It sound to me like the images are going to be very important though - I have absolutely no idea about share/prercentage etc but just throwing that out there.
A book could have a wonderful idea but if the visuals arent eyecatching (doesnt have to mean 'tasteful' or even necessarily high quality) you're in a different league . .
True, luck must play a big part in success - it sounds like something interesting but I wouldnt have a clue about that market :)
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As for the success of it, I don't know. The things i like are never really that popular. -superboyac
I hear you. I'm one of the people that actually liked Islandia. ;D
We are going to go all out on it, but success is such a tricky thing, and the things we like don't normally fall into the successful/popular category. At best, they are acclaimed critically.
If you have a story that you really need to tell, you have a genuine crack at success. That's one characteristic of most successful works of fiction. The author(s) wrote the story they wanted to read, rather than the one they thought would sell.
re: help wanted
Here's a suggestion. Consider a quasi-viral approach. Think Firefly. Think StarTrek.
Do a project website. Explain what it's about. Show people some of what you have so far. Try publishing the first two or three chapters up on the web. Invite interested parties to participate in whatever capacity, and under whatever terms seem most acceptable to your creative team. And be blunt about what you're seeking. If you're looking for final art (and only final art) just say so. And if money is going to be an issue (or non-existent), also make that very plain from the get-go.
FWIW: I've got a buddy who's a very talented comic book writer. He's been involved in several collaborative projects. And to date, only a few of them ever panned out. The problem is that most people (especially the bedroom art crowd) underestimate the amount of work involved in getting a graphic novel out the door. From his (and my) experiences, I'd say about 95% of the people who contact you will never come through on what they promise. Most of the remaining 5% will also fizzle out on you after a few weeks. And this sad statistic has held true whether or not there was money to be had.
Sill, if you're lucky, you just might hook up with somebody that actually brings something to the party.
Think of it this way - suppose your book really takes off and they decide to have Burton or Speilberg make it into a movie. Suddenly you'll find you have hundreds of people collaborating to bring your epic to the screen. Might not hurt to get a little practice in first.
I'd hold off on doing any of this right now. But tuck it in the back of your head for later.
P.S. Thanks for the compliment, but I'm definitely not an artist. We have a real one in my family - so I know.
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Thanks, 40hz, for the information. This is not really a graphic novel. It will be much more in the educational/literary category, but fun. Essentially targeted to the same crowd, same age group, albeit the more intelligent ones. So, from my perspective, the target crowd will be kind of small. I don't want to get into the whole thing.
But I'm sorry to hear about the commitment level I can expect from inquiring artists. Hopefully I can find someone reliable. After all, there is SOME money in it. And if I know myself or my friend well enough, this project WILL get done. Some way, somehow.
Thanks for the website idea, I will definitely consider that now that I have a little experience with it.
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Awesome!
Let me know how you make out.
I ran it past my sister, who is a "graphic designer - not an illustrator" (her words). She said she had the feeling what you're looking for is going to run some serious bucks unless you're lucky enough to hook up with a talented newcomer who is willing to take it on as a 'portfolio piece.'
I asked her what she thought it might cost if somebody like a book publisher were handling the project.
She said that around here (think metro NY market so prices will probably be higher than in most places) commissioned art like the above runs around $300+ per illustration. She also mentioned that for that degree of originality, most professional illustrators will also expect to get a 'piece of the action.' What that means is some sort of royalty arrangement or a restricted use clause.
Restricted use means what it says. Say you bought the illustrations for a book and somewhere down the road Dreamworks decided to make it into a movie. If the illustrations were used as concept art, or the look of the film closely matched the illustrations, the illustrator might be entitled to a cut. On a less esoteric level, rights might only cover a USA release. Foreign rights might need to be negotiated separately. Ditto for hardcover, second printing, paperback, graphic novel, video game, audio book (don't laugh - think cover art) yadda-yadda...you get the picture.
So anyway, whatever you do, make sure you have a clear understanding with anybody you're working with. And if you do enter into an arrangement, get it in writing - and be sure to have a competent attorney review it before you sign.
Keep us posted.
Luck! :Thmbsup:
P.S. I don't know if it's still as true today, but in the past, most publishers preferred to use their own stable of illustrators. The reason they did that was because most artists were totally clueless about how to create what was called press reproducible artwork. Basically that meant art that was amenable to the color separation process and reproduced well on a standard 4-color press. Not all art fits into that category.
If you're planning to 'print publish' your project, do yourself a favor. See if you can find a designer or art director with publishing experience who is willing to bring you up to speed on what's involved. Most of them love to pontificate, so it shouldn't set you back more than a pizza and some beer to get a good crash course on how these things work.
OK...I'm rambling, and the server I'm working on just finished updating so I'd best get back to work. Bye! :)
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sounds like really helpful advice from 40hz. :up:
let us know how it turns out superboy!
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40hz, thanks so much for the information above. I truly appreciate it.
We definitely won't be able to afford anywhere near $300 per illustration. We were hoping for and can't go too much higher than $20-50 per illustration. If price is an issue, we will have to sacrifice quality first and foremost. I realize that the illustrations I have shown as examples are very ideal, I don't really expect anywhere near that quality. Those illustrations are done by a relatively well-known and experienced pro (aren't they great?!). I mean, he goes around the world and gives talks and seminars about art. But it gives an idea of what we are shooting for.
As for the legal stuff, thanks for that. It's something we are aware of, but obviously don't know the details of.
Also, I appreciate your optimism, but cmon! I would welcome a situation where the book became so popular that movies and video games were being made and royalty issues came up. Ha ha, that's not really a bad thing. But I get your point.
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Just another thought:
Don't rule out manipulated photographs. You can do amazing things with a group of image files, Adobe Photoshop, and some creativity. Done correctly, they can be hard to distinguish from "hand drawn" digital art.
Here's a quick & dirty example. Let's say I need a character something like Angelina Joli's character in Sky Captain. But I plan to make my character much more 3-dimensional so a woman in a leather flight suit just isn't going to cut it. I envision her as a study in contrasts, and somewhat of an enigma to her fellow officers. I want a military physique, and an intriguing face. Calm and gentle, but with a bit of spark obviously lurking just below the surface. I want a look that almost contradicts the fact she's a highly qualified and capable field commander.
Ok...
Start w/pretty athletic woman. Fitness model type for the military physique:
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Do some paint overs, color adjustments, and drop in a background... and voila!
May I introduce my new character: Alliance Fleet Strike Commander Deborah Jorr, caught in a rare off duty moment aboard her ship the SVN Donneybrook.
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Not the greatest, I'll admit. But I cranked it out in about ten minutes as a proof of concept. A real artist could do it 100 times better.
Something to think about.
P.S. be sure you only use your own photos (or images you have a legal right to use) when you do this. :tellme:
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Yeah, I'm definitely considering that also.
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OK, third option...
It seems like I may try doing these illustrations myself. I used to draw quite a bit when i was younger, and they were pretty good. But it's not something that i felt came easily to me. However, it may be the only affordable way to do it for now. And it gives my friend and I a chance to collaborate with no headaches. I'm going to explore the world of Photoshop for a while and see if I can use technology to assist me with the task, especially for repetitive tasks like shading or drawing grass, fixing mistakes, etc.
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So here are some of my old sketches from high school, hopefully I can improve on my abilities. The scan is pretty bad, especially after resizing, so they look worse than they actually are. But you can get an idea.
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Most people don't know that Lewis Carroll did
the original illustrations for Alice.
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Carroll and his publishers thought his books needed the touch of a professional illustrator, so Sir John Tenniel was hired to do the work for the published book.
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Interestingly enough, both illustrations are equally valid in my mind. I think I slightly prefer Carroll's original. Carroll's Alice has more depth of personality to my eyes. Tenniel's is more technically accomplished. But his Alice is interchangeable with almost any other 'young girl' illustration from the Victorian period. It's only time that's taught us to see her as a uniquely recognizable book character.
And many others have taken a crack at Carroll's world. (If you write it, they will draw." ;D) Some of the interpretations are quite valid as far as I'm concerned. Take a look at all the Alice 'riffs' here:
http://www.lewiscarroll.org/graph.html#Other
So the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't the degree of technique you bring to the illustrations that's the key.
It's the integrity of your story line - and the authenticity of the related art - that makes it work.
You have your story. And it looks to me like you've got enough artistic talent to roll your own illustrations.
If I were you, I'd go for it. :Thmbsup:
<EDIT: Was typing a little too fast. Minor changes for clarification made in green above. Sorry!>
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Thanks 40hz, those are very encouraging words. I didn't realize that about Alice in Wonderland.
I just received a voice mail from my friend a few minutes ago, and he had never seen my drawings. He said a light went on for him and I just have to do these drawings. It will make the project make so much more sense and just give us so much more freedom, in addition to allowing us to better create the personality we want to express through the words and art. Like you said, even if it's technically not great, at least I can capture the mood exactly the way I'm thinking.
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So, I've officially embarked on this project. It would be an understatement to say how overwhelmed I am right now. But it's a good kind of stress. I've been reading a lot of tutorials and watching some youtube videos. most of them are not that helpful, but I've found a couple of gems. I swear, some of these people are uncanny. I saw someone start with a blank page, smear some skin color on the page, and in the end it looked like it was taken by a professional photographer. They talk about how to do eyelashes and all the little things. Just crazy. I have to be careful to stay within my bounds.
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I've spent the last month pouring over all kinds of tutorials about drawing, shading, photoshop, and illustrator. I've decided on a method that uses Illustrator as a sketchpad. I borrowed a wacom tablet from one of our graphics guys at my job, to see if it will work for me. Instead of color, the illustrations will be in black and white. I've always loved the look of black and white sketches. it also makes it easier on me so I don't have to learn coloring techniques. Gustave Dore's work was a great inspiration, and the guy is incredible. Check it out:
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So, here is my first try at drawing in this style. I did several attempts all weekend and this was the best one in my opinion:
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It's actually not that hard to simulate the style in the first image.
You start with a simple basic line drawing and scan it. Then import it into the software of your choice (photoshop, paintshop pro, gimp, etc) Then "color" it in with a pattern rather than a color. The pattern tiles should be basic lines, criss crosses, and maybe dots (for shading).
Just build it up in layers, never working directly on the base layer of the original line sketch.
Tiles can be rotated to change the direction of the lines. You can also change the size to make the pattern tighter or looser.
There may also be a filter capable of doing it much faster, but I think the manual approach might work better.
Make sure you work big, so the quality will be much better when printed, so there will be no need to resize it larger. (Exact size, I can't tell you. You'd have to get that info from a publisher/printer)
When you are finished, reduce it to 2 color (black & white, not grayscale) before saving the merged image. And always keep the original with all the layers intact, in case you need to do any additional editing.
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Those aren't sketches, they're etchings. Dore earned his reputation creating those. :Thmbsup:
To make an etching, you had to first create a printing plate. Usually the plate was made of copper. To produce the image, the artist had to cover the plate with a thin coating of wax. He then had to draw the image by scribing through the wax with a sharp steel stylus. The plate was then dipped in acid to allow the picture to be etched into the exposed areas of the plate - hence the name "etching." The plate was then washed and examined. This process (wax/scribe/etch/wash) was repeated several times as the image was gradually built up in reverse order. It was a painstaking and dangerous process (acid!) that took years to master. In the hands of an artist like Dore, an etching could rival the level of detail produced by the photographic offset process, which would ultimately replace it.
Once the plate was completed, it was inked and pressed. The quality of the print was best at the earliest part of the print run since the soft copper plate gradually got damaged by the pressure applied by the press. When used for fine art prints today, etchings usually carry a penciled number to indicate where it fell in the press run. The designation "25/150" would tell the buyer that his copy was number 25 in a printing of 150 copies. Usually the first 30 or so are considered to be the best quality and therefor command the highest prices.
Fortunately, we don't have to go through all that to get a similar look any more!
The effect can be obtained digitally, either by hand, or by using a filter plug-in. Doing it by hand, as app suggested, is probably the better way to go if you want a unique look.
But there are also dozens of prebuilt plugins that will produce acceptable results if you take the time to play with them.
Here's two examples of an "etching look" using two different plugins from one vendor:
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Link to page: www.andromeda.com/main/screening_gallery.php
(A quick Google search will pull up tons more. :tellme:)
In the meantime, keep up the great job you're doing. Can't wait to see the finished product. :Thmbsup:
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Those aren't sketches, they're etchings. Dore earned his reputation creating those. :Thmbsup:
-40hz
I know it wasn't a sketch. I am quite familiar with the original process. I was just giving info on how the look can be easily duplicated, with software. ;)
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Those aren't sketches, they're etchings. Dore earned his reputation creating those. :Thmbsup:
-40hz
I know it wasn't a sketch. I am quite familiar with the original process. I was just giving info on how the look can be easily duplicated, with software. ;)
-app103
@app103 - Hiya. My earlier comment wasn't specifically directed at you or anyone else.
It was just offered for general informational purposes. Same goes for the description of the etching process. Glad to hear you're quite familiar with it. But most people aren't, so I thought it would be nice to share it with anyone who might be interested.
Sorry if it somehow offended. :) :Thmbsup:
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P.S. I also acknowledged your suggestion in the same post (emphasis now added) so I think I understood what you were saying. ;)
The effect can be obtained digitally, either by hand, or by using a filter plug-in. Doing it by hand, as app suggested, is probably the better way to go if you want a unique look.
-40hz
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40hz, thanks for the information about etching! I knew that Dore did a lot of his work on wood engravings, but besides some basics, I didn't know about all those details.
The Photoshop plugins are cool. Frankly, I'm a little annoyed by how good it looks simply by using a plugin. But I have to admit, that is really cool. I love that look. However, if I go that route there are a couple of things I don't like. First, I still have to shade the illustration properly so the plugin can do it's thing...and just that shading is going to be a lot of work. Second, I don't really want the lines to be added so mechanically. There's a certain touch to the drawing I did that I really like, and the same goes for Dore's. Even though his illustrations are technically done the same way as the plugin...because he did it by hand, it has a certain touch to it.
I bought a book of Dore's illustrations and studied it pretty carefully this past weekend. Even in his paper sketches, he utilizes the same technique. And i really love that look. It's exactly what I'm going for. The plugin look, assuming I can even prep the drawing nicely enough, is a little too clean.
That being said, I may use the plugin to create references of images i want to draw. Like I said, I'm not very good yet, so I need a lot of help to know how to shade things, so if I find a good photo of something I like, i can load it into photoshop, apply the plugin, and I can see kind of what I have to do. Also, I really like the idea of using Illustrator.
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The other issue I have with all these photoshop plugins and techniques is that you have to have something already for the plugin to do its trick. I may find existing things here and there, but I'm going to have to create most of it myself. I would be very lucky if I found pictures or existing drawings of muscular guys in the exact right pose and all the scenery, etc. I have things that are close, but I will use them for references mostly.
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There's a certain touch to the drawing I did that I really like, and the same goes for Dore's. Even though his illustrations are technically done the same way as the plugin...because he did it by hand, it has a certain touch to it.
-superboyac
Wow! That comment is pure music to my ears. And is that ever something I'd wish more people could see! Because if they did, they'd grasp the fundamental difference between "art" - and what's merely artsy.
So much of what passes for creativity these days is far too often nothing more than someone being clever.
Clever you can buy. Creativity, however, is gold coin.
Stay on the course you're on and I'm sure the finished work will be spectacular. :Thmbsup:
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BTW: this is my 2000th post! I wonder how many work hours that represents? (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/gwizd.gif)
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Congratulations on your 2000th post! if you're ever in the LA area, I'll buy you a lunch.
I was just talking to my friend, and he suggested that maybe the photoshop plugin can save time with stuff like backgrounds. Mountains, forests, all those backdrops. because I will have a hard enough time with all the characters, so that could be a huge time saver.
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if you're ever in the LA area, I'll buy you a lunch.
-superboyac
I'll be happy to do the same for you if you're ever in New England. :) :Thmbsup:
I was just talking to my friend, and he suggested that maybe the photoshop plugin can save time with stuff like backgrounds. Mountains, forests, all those backdrops. because I will have a hard enough time with all the characters, so that could be a huge time saver.
-superboyac
Not a bad idea. Disney used a similar technique when they did the animation for Snow White using separate layers for background, middle ground, objects, and characters. (They also developed a special camera - dubbed the 'multiplane' camera - that allowed them to move as well as focus on each of the (up to 7!) layers independently. This produced an almost 3-D visual effect - but that's a topic that merits its own discussion!)
I know you're not doing a graphic novel, but there's a really good book I picked up a few weeks ago that has some excellent tutorials that might help with what you're doing. It's called The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics by Freddie Williams II (ISBN: 978-0-8230-9923-8). This book is very well written, and has concepts that go well beyond just creating comic books.
There's sections on stetting up your digital workflow; creating library objects (buildings, backgrounds, etc.) from photos and sketches; layering techniques; wireframe creation and use; hybrid digital-traditional art approaches, etc. This is one of those rare rock-solid & hardcore 'how-to' books. Minimal theory and philosophizing. But packed with a lot of hands-on specifics. Especially good is the section on using a scanner in conjunction with penciled images. It's geared mostly towards Photoshop, (like what isn't, right?) but you can easily extrapolate his techniques to work with other products.
Well worth looking at next time you're in Borders or Barnes & Nobel. (And at $22.99 list, it's a steal! :up:)
8)
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So much of what passes for creativity these days is far too often nothing more than someone being clever.
Clever you can buy. Creativity, however, is gold coin.
Stay on the course you're on and I'm sure the finished work will be spectacular. :Thmbsup
-40hz
Thanks for those words. That's exactly what we are going for. Even though I'm looking for shortcuts to disguise my lack of skill at this point, I do want the work to have a certain sense of true soul to it. Along the way, I will become more proficient, maybe not to a professional level, but hopefully good enough to communicate my intentions. And like my music and any artisitic endeavor, the popular thing to talk about is the technical skill involved and in the process, storytelling is overlooked. But storytelling is the key, it always will be.
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Here's my initial attempt at a 3d sword design in Autocad. I realized after this that Autocad is not the greatest application for this sort of thing. It's slow and has a klunky rendering process. But, I am an expert at it so I was able to get it done quickly. But I want to eventually try the same thing in 3ds max and see how it turns out. i want it looking much better with respect to rendering. I want a shiny blade and some cool textures, etc. And more photo-realistic of course.
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Well, color me impressed by plain ol vanilla Autocad. I did this rendering in Autocad after messing around with lights and materials for a good four days. But I gotta say, it looks pretty sweet. I still feel like Autocad is too sluggish with the 3d stuff, but this is a pretty fine rendering:
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@superboyac: looks like you are having a lot of fun, learning a lot by yourself, and getting places. Congrats on being so productive.
@40hz: your help is going to become a legend on this forum. It knows no boundaries. One day, you are going to start giving investing advice that actually works, and noone will be surprised, coming from you :)
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or you could ask a couple of friends to act models, and take their pictures, for each 'scene', and click a software program's button. End of story-animation. Ehh... you do have a camera and some friends? 8)
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Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.
that's just my way of saying that it seems like you are going down a path that is going to drastically effect how long it's going to take you to finish the book; if that's ok with you then it sounds like it's going to be a real labor of love. just make sure it's a tradeoff you are willing to make.
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Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.
that's just my way of saying that it seems like you are going down a path that is going to drastically effect how long it's going to take you to finish the book; if that's ok with you then it sounds like it's going to be a real labor of love. just make sure it's a tradeoff you are willing to make.
-mouser
I hear you. I just talked about this with my friend. I'm not going to do any more 3d models. but the sword is such a critical element of the story, i figured it would be good to start off doing something like this. The other stuff I'm going to do by hand like that one sketch I already started. It will be a labor of love, but we still want a product. Our time frame is about 1-2 years. I think I can hand draw enough things in that time.
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I know you're not doing a graphic novel, but there's a really good book I picked up a few weeks ago that has some excellent tutorials that might help with what you're doing. It's called The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics by Freddie Williams II (ISBN: 978-0-8230-9923-8). This book is very well written, and has concepts that go well beyond just creating comic books.
-40hz
40hz! I completely missed this great post of yours. Thanks, I will check this book out immediately.
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Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.-mouser
Actually, that's not as far fetched as you might think when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi publishing. There is a very active demand for extremely limited editions in that market. You'll find these collectible gems on the websites of many of the better small publishers.
Printed on hand operated presses (using metal type!), exotic bindings, hand-tinted illustrations (with an occasional original drawing thrown in for good measure) - these are real collectibles - not some limited production run intended to to create an artificial rarity.
These books are usually produced in editions numbering less than a hundred. They're beautifully made, quite unique, and priced accordingly. That being said, they're still labors of love since most of the presses that produce them are small operations that are usually not trying to do much more than make enough to keep doing what they love doing.
Many famous fantasy authors have one of these "chapbook" editions out. Very often, a press will commission a short story or novella especially for this purpose. These numbered editions, frequently slip-cased or bound in unusual formats, are almost always autographed by the author. They're actively sought by both die-hard genre fans and those who appreciate the art of fine bookmaking.
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Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.-mouser
Actually, that's not as far fetched as you might think when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi publishing. There is a very active demand for extremely limited editions in that market. You'll find these collectible gems on the websites of many of the better small publishers.
Printed on hand operated presses (using metal type!), exotic bindings, hand-tinted illustrations (with an occasional original drawing thrown in for good measure) - these are real collectibles - not some limited production run intended to to create an artificial rarity.
These books are usually produced in editions numbering less than a hundred. They're beautifully made, quite unique, and priced accordingly. That being said, they're still labors of love since most of the presses that produce them are small operations that are usually not trying to do much more than make enough to keep doing what they love doing.
Many famous fantasy authors have one of these "chapbook" editions out. Very often, a press will commission a short story or novella especially for this purpose. These numbered editions, frequently slip-cased or bound in unusual formats, are almost always autographed by the author. They're actively sought by both die-hard genre fans and those who appreciate the art of fine bookmaking.
-40hz
Wow, 40! You know a lot about this stuff. That is fascinating. I've known a little about the fantasy genre from many years ago because I thought the art was so cool (the female nudity helped). I didn't know about these special collections, though. In fact, I've never really met anyone who was a fan of this art.
But mouser has a point, if I am understanding him correctly. I need to focus on a schedule and see what can be realistically accomplished, even if that means sacrificing a little quality. For the past few weeks, I've been experimenting with different styles and programs to see what method I come up with. I still probably need a couple of more months of that. After that, I need to start setting goals and coming up with illustrations, no matter what. I can't be researching forever. i think that was his point, right mouser?
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[ I've known a little about the fantasy genre from many years ago because I thought the art was so cool (the female nudity helped).
-superboyac
I'm sure that artwork helped get many young fans through the early stages of puberty.;D Ditto for some of the racier titles.
Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil was extremely popular. Probably as many people read it for the 'soft porn' sex scenes as for the sci-fi content. But Heinlein at his raciest would still have to be considered tame by today's standards. However, back when they were first published, books like Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil and Time Enough for Love were both considered quite risqué.
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Man, 40, you sure know a lot about this stuff. Thanks for all your input, I love it!
I remember in my early teens when I came across the movie "Heavy Metal". I don't remember how I saw it, maybe it was on cable or something. I thought it was so naughty.
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I remember in my early teens when I came across the movie "Heavy Metal". I don't remember how I saw it, maybe it was on cable or something. I thought it was so naughty.
-superboyac
Just don't let me catch you reading any of those Gor novels by John Norman!
====
Old sci-fi convention joke:
Mom-1: I can't believe some of what they're calling sci-fi these days.
Mom-2: Yeah. Did you see what they had over in that Heavy Metal booth?
Mom-1: Yes I did. It's pornographic - and I don't care who says otherwise.
Mom-2: Well, just so long as the younger kids aren't reading stuff like that.
Mom-1: But they are! Just last week I caught my 13 year old daughter reading Captive of Gor!
Mom-2: OMG! She's reading books like that? What did you do?
Mom-1: I gave her a spanking - and then I sent her to bed without supper!
Mom-2: Yikes! That was some punishment! Did she learn her lesson?
Mom-1: Well...no. In fact, I think I might have made it worse.
;D
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"Spank me!", said the masochist. "No!", said the sadist.
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40hz, I just got the book:
The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics
It is fantastic. It is exactly, precisely, 100% the book I was looking for. He is the only person who has written a book on this subject, there isn't even anyone close. And he's done an awesome job. It's not about drawing, it's not about how to draw well...it's all about how to get things done using the computer. And he does a great job showing the pros and cons of the digital method vs. traditional paper and pencil. Thanks man, you are a source of endless useful information around here.
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It is fantastic. It is exactly, precisely, 100% the book I was looking for.
-superboyac
De nada. :)
I thought it was a pretty amazing book myself. All substance. (How rare is that in the computer book world?)
The thing that impressed me the most is how broadly applicable Fred Williams' techniques are to all forms of digital illustration. Too bad his book has the word "comics" in the title and uses a lot of Marvel-style art. That's going to automatically turn off a lot of artists and illustrators who could otherwise benefit by reading it.
Why not do a mini review of it in the What books are you reading" thread if you get a chance?
Some other DoCo members might it useful too. And your impressions of the book would be especially interesting since you've got a live project to apply some of it to.
*(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=20287.0)
:Thmbsup:
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I'll definitely post more about the book as I go through it. he uses Photoshop primarily. What I'd like to know is if I can take his techniques and apply them to Illustrator. Nobody uses Illustrator for this stuff, and I know why, but I can't shake the feeling that I want to go that way.
One of the great bonuses of that book is seeing exactly all the steps involved in creating a page of art. That's really useful. I had a book as a kid called How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way. it was pretty good, but in the end, I didn't find it too helpful because a lot of little steps were not explained.
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After skimming through the book, I think I'm 90% convinced that Photoshop is the way to do my project, rather than Illustrator. I mean, I understood the differences between the two programs, but I initially felt like Illustrator would be the best program because of its vector-based nature. And I do have a lot of experience with vector programs, so I though maybe that would be a good idea. However, the reason why everyone uses Photoshop for stuff like this is because of the selection features. In Photoshop, you select areas. In Illustrator, you select objects. That kind of did it for me.
This is probably obvious to everyone, isn't it?
Man, that book is so good.
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Hey you might want to try Poser and Poser libraries. They might be helpful either for posing-final rendering or for making initial poses and then tracing.
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Hey you might want to try Poser and Poser libraries. They might be helpful either for posing-final rendering or for making initial poses and then tracing.
-kartal
Actually, I already looked into that and liked the idea. One of the graphics guys I know has it and showed how to make a muscular character and move him around in all kinds of poses. I thought it would come in extremely handy for references. I wouldn't use it for actual artwork since I'm planning on doing these as sketches. But yeah, it was really cool.