DonationCoder.com Forum
Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: tinjaw on October 25, 2009, 03:29 PM
-
I often download large files, like iso images, via FTP that are also available via bittorrent. Things like linux distros and such. I have an virtual machine with Windows XP that runs for the sole purpose of doing things like downloading large files, uploading large files, compressing archives, synchronizing directories, etc. I would like to add a simple and stable bittorrent client to it so it can also grab (and share) stuff in the background.
I've heard of µTorrent, but hear that it "cheats" (which I don't want to do) and the original BitTorrent, but I hear that it has commercial crapware embedded (if it does, I don't want it) and Vuze/Azuerus, but I don't want to install Java just for that.
I don't do much torrenting, so nothing elaborate and feature rich is required (but is not a reason to not use it if it's good).
Whatall to youall suggest?
-
I've heard of µTorrent, but hear that it "cheats" (which I don't want to do)-tinjaw
Hmmm...are you certain it was uTorrent and not BitComet?
-
I just use one of the Opera torrent widgets. I'm not on my own computer at the moment, so can't post a link to the one I use, but later today will check and post it here. At any rate, it's been great! I tried using whatever Vuze (formerly Azeurus), but didn't like it.
-
In what way is µTorrent supposed to cheat? I'm very happy with it as my torrent client, and it's a client that's recommended on certain torrent sites as well. Not that I know much about this sort of technology except µTorrent works for me :-[
-
The private trackers I know only recommend two clients, Azureus and µTorrent, so I'm sure µTorrent doesn't cheat, otherwise it would be banned.
µTorrent is my main recommendation. It never failed to me, even with a bunch of torrents going at the same time. Plus it has some other niceties that may be interesting to you, like the RSS Downloader, indispensable for certain "recursive" jobs :-P
The other client worth recommending is Halite, by DC's own Eóin. It has less bells and whistles, but it retains most of the functionality, including torrent stats ;D
Maybe Deluge might catch your eye as well, although it looked like crap under Windows last time I used it. Azureus is bloated to no end, with tons of things you probably won't need. Plus it's written in Java. Opera would be the ultimate no frills torrent client, but I don't know how it performs with more than one torrent being downloaded. Finally, there are a few extensions for Firefox that add BitTorrent support, as some download managers that support the protocol, like FlashGet or Free Download Manager.
And there's no much else, frankly, the market for pure BitTorrent clients in Windows is a small one, most clients have not been updated in years, or have serious problems, either they cheat or they are stuffed with spyware.
-
(Ewwww, BT crap...)
µTorrent is rather bloated, compared to other clients.
+1 for Halite.
Deluge also seems to be fine, but I haven't ever managed to make it work here.
-
uTorrent works fine here. Simple to use - just install and go. Works well with PNP capable routers without the need for setting up rules to open ports.
-
utorrent? bloated? How?
+1 for utorrent. Fast, small, stable and easy to use. I know it does not cheat because the second I adjust my upload rate my download rate gets exponentially better.
-
It's µ, not u. And did you compare it to Halite? Much more stuff in it. "Bloated".
Additionally, µTorrent is known for unfair behavior (http://www.binarynotions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=389)...
-
For casual use, and when I'm in Opera already, I find it perfectly OK.
Otherwise, I use µTorrent. Never had a problem with it.
-
Yes Yes, that is the right title. I was just lazy and didn't feel like bringing up charmap.
-
Then "mTorrent" would be (almost) right. :P
-
Plus, the installer places the program in the uTorrent Folder so I guess I am right too ;-)
-
Yes Yes, that is the right title. I was just lazy and didn't feel like bringing up charmap.
-Josh
Alt + 0181 ;)
-
Plus, the installer places the program in the uTorrent Folder so I guess I am right too ;-)
-Josh
These guys are not even able to spell their own software's name. You see?
-
+1 for uTorrent. Can we please not use the word "bloat" when referring to software that comes as a single executable with only features pertaining to the programs primary purpose, no matter how abundant those may be?
Stop using uPNP please people (I'd rather not hijack this thread, so hopefully this (http://robert.penz.name/12/proof-that-upnp-on-home-routers-is-bad/) simple example will be enough).
Tuxman, nice of you to recommend a client that you've never been able to get working whilst criticizing what is so far the most highly recommended client, then to criticize our use of the word "uTorrent", without providing the keystroke to type it correctly, whilst completely disregarding the fact that the use of "uTorrent" is more common than "µTorrent" precisely due to the complexity involved in typing it. Thanks for all your help in this thread...
Ehtyar.
-
Tuxman, nice of you to recommend a client that you've never been able to get working-Ehtyar
I didn't recommend Deluge, I said "looks nice". :P
Halite works for me.
whilst criticizing what is so far the most highly recommended client-Ehtyar
That doesn't mean it is the best client either, see my comment about its behavior above...
-
RE: µtorrent cheating: I remember reading a bunch of complaints that it manipulates something to make it get stuff faster than other clients. I don't remember the details, that's why I through it out for comment. Maybe it doesn't do that anymore. I'm not sure if µtorrent was the one.
-
Bit Comet was well known for bypassing the "ratios" put in place by most trackers.
-
tinjaw:
Yep, it was (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=20392.msg182262#msg182262).
Josh:
AFAIK this has been removed in recent versions?
-
Might have been, might not have. I do know that several private trackers I use ban the users of bitcomet.
-
I'm not one to follow the main stream sometimes, and this is definitely one of those times.
I find that utorrent not only lacks some features I love, but it also has much less respect for the connection settings I set, in some conditions causing poor internet performance, and even crashing routers despite extremely limiting connection settings (100 connections global max).
If that seems to be your experience with utorrent, I'd highly recommend using deluge. This program has a seperated interface and daemon, along with internet tracking so that you can log in directly to the program from a remote location and add torrents, or manage your client however you see fit. All over a lightweight http interface.
That is why deluge gets my recommendation when it comes to bit torrent clients (no matter the platform). There are atleast a gazillion clients out there, so I'm sure you wont have any trouble finding one that suits your needs.
-
On those very rare occasions I need to do a torrent download, I'll just use the torrent feature in Free Download Manager (www.freedownloadmanager.org) which is my Win D/L tool of choice for everything else.
Note: I'm not a big torrent freak so I don't need to keep a separate client on hand just to do that. Your needs may be different.
-
I find that utorrent not only lacks some features I love, but it also has much less respect for the connection settings I set, in some conditions causing poor internet performance, and even crashing routers despite extremely limiting connection settings (100 connections global max).-Kamel
µTorrent also did that on my router but it's not just the number of connections that is the problem - it's also how fast they're made.
My router was resetting every few hours using µTorrent no matter what connection limit I used until I changed two Advanced values - since then, not one µTorrent related router reset.
bt.connect_speed = 8
net.max_halfopen = 4
All of which is mentioned in the TroubleShooting section here (http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=15992).
+1 for µTorrent. It runs 24/7 here but TBH, it's speed isn't that important to me since my main source of material is newsgroups.
-
I'm a µTorrent fan as well, have been since the beginning. As one of the best and most popular clients, it will naturally have its detractors, people who claim it cheats, or that it has spyware since it was bought by the Bittorrent people (that should give you a clue right there how good it is) and the Bittorrent people have a legal deal with the MPAA. So far as I've seen most, if not all of these claims have been unsubstantiated, or at the very least exaggerated. µTorrent is fast, stable, it has all the right features (for me), none of the ones I don't need, and it's about as far from bloated as any app comes these days, as a single stand-alone EXE well below 1MB.
- Oshyan
-
I just use one of the Opera torrent widgets. I'm not on my own computer at the moment, so can't post a link to the one I use, but later today will check and post it here. At any rate, it's been great! I tried using whatever Vuze (formerly Azeurus), but didn't like it.
-Darwin
This is the Opera widget I've been using: Torrent Power Search (http://widgets.opera.com/widget/6012/).
-
+1 for utorrent. (Forgive me, tµxman!)
I run it in portable (http://www.ghacks.net/2009/08/11/how-to-make-utorrent-portable/) mode.
-
µTorrent is rather bloated, compared to other clients.-Tuxman
That's the worst nonsense I've heard in a while.
µTorrent has a bunch of features, yes, but they're features that a lot of people find useful (and thus not feature bloat), while the executable is still tiny (a lot smaller than halite, iirc - and thus not exe bloat either).
It's µ, not u. And did you compare it to Halite? Much more stuff in it. "Bloated".
Additionally, µTorrent is known for unfair behavior (http://www.binarynotions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=389)...
-Tuxman
Didn't read through all of that, so dunno if any conclusion was reached. But perhaps it's not "favoring other µt clients" but rather people who have set their clients to only accept protocol-encrypted clients?
Plus, the installer places the program in the uTorrent Folder so I guess I am right too ;-)
-Josh
These guys are not even able to spell their own software's name. You see?
-Tuxman
Sure they are, but unicode characters aren't always the smartest thing to put in file/folder names.
RE: µtorrent cheating: I remember reading a bunch of complaints that it manipulates something to make it get stuff faster than other clients. I don't remember the details, that's why I through it out for comment. Maybe it doesn't do that anymore. I'm not sure if µtorrent was the one.
-tinjaw
That was BitComet (and other clients), doing nasty stuff like spamming the tracker announce... µTorrent never did anything like this, afaik.
I have a linux server running rTorrent (http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/) for most of my needs, but if I need to grab something fast, it's µTorrent on Windows. Works well, has the options I need, and is able to handle 20mbit downstream without disk thrashing.
-
while the executable is still tiny (a lot smaller than halite, iirc - and thus not exe bloat either).-f0dder
UPX-packed, I presume? So it will be unpacked on runtime -> large overhead.
Didn't read through all of that, so dunno if any conclusion was reached.-f0dder
Yep, it was: µTorrent systematically leeches non-µTorrent clients.
-
while the executable is still tiny (a lot smaller than halite, iirc - and thus not exe bloat either).-f0dder
UPX-packed, I presume? So it will be unpacked on runtime -> large overhead.-Tuxman
I know about (http://f0dder.reteam.org/packandstuff.htm) exe compression overhead, but it makes perfect sense for µTorrent - it's single-instance, and the .exe is downloaded directly (ie, no zip compression around it) so exe compression is just fine.
When de-upx'ed, µTorrent 1.8.2 (haven't bothered upgrading to the latest-and-greatest) weighs in at 577kb. Halite is ~5.4meg for the main executable, and does it support HTTPS trackers yet? You might want to apologize for calling µTorrent bloated.
(Note that I'm not criticizing halite, I respect Eóin quite a lot, and find that people often obsess about executable file size where it doesn't matter much - but I'm not the one who started this silliness.)
Didn't read through all of that, so dunno if any conclusion was reached.-f0dder
Yep, it was: µTorrent systematically leeches non-µTorrent clients.
-Tuxman
Proof, please? There's nothing of that in the post you linked to earlier, just speculation. If µTorrent really did "favor it's brethren", I probably wouldn't be going 2MB/s with rTorrent in a swarm consisting mostly of (leeching) µTorrent clients :-\ :-\ :-\
There's a lot of eyes on the µTorrent executable because it's such a popular client - both white-, grey- and blackhats. I haven't been following closely, but I'm pretty sure I would've heard if anybody caught it doing nefarious things.
-
You might want to apologize for calling µTorrent bloated.-f0dder
No. :P
However, the choice of a P2P client for a certain network is mostly a matter of personal favors. Mine is different. Is that, at least, OK for everyone?
8)
-
However, the choice of a P2P client for a certain network is mostly a matter of personal favors. Mine is different. Is that, at least, OK for everyone?-Tuxman
Sure is; calling other clients bad names and throwing accusation around for no good reason isn't.
-
Sure is; calling other clients bad names and throwing accusation around for no good reason isn't.
-f0dder
Agreed...a lot of people have thrown around disparaging comments regarding µTorrent & usually these comments can almost always be traced back to people who are publishing a competing client. µTorrent's competitors are jealous of what it can do in such a small footprint & sour grapes is usually the order of the day. Even Bram Whatshishead, inventor of the BitTorrent protocol, was critical of µTorrent....until he bought the rights to it and now Bram Whatshishead proclaims from the highest rooftops how good µTorrent is.
A lot of people are critical of µTorrent as it performs just as well as any other client in a much smaller footprint than most of them. Lots of implied behavior, guesses, and wild-assed guesses as to what might be happening always come up in discussions about this client, but proof is always in short supply.
Running a BitTorrent client on your computer is handy if you are going to be torrenting stuff only once in a great while, but if you plan on torrenting for any major lengths of time you should look into running it on a low-power device like a NAS or a router allowing you to free up your computer for other things, including the ability to turn it off when you leave your desk without interrupting your torrents.
(Disclaimer: What follows is editorial content and does not in any way, shape, or form reflect on my opinion of the OP and for what purposes innocent or nefarious s/he may or may not being using a BitTorrent client.)
I always find it amusing when the subject of BitTorrent clients comes up how quickly it is mentioned that the person is using said program to download Linux ISOs. How many Linux ISOs does one need? Evidently a crap-load of 'em as the client requirements are always for something small, efficient, and fast so the most throughput can be gained with the least amount of system resources used implying this client will be used quite a bit....to download as many Linux ISOs as possible, I guess. ;D
-
Funny thing is that you almost always get abysmal speeds when getting linux ISOs via torrents, whereas the various university http/ftp mirrors can easily be abused for 2MB/s downloading. The opensores community should really embrace the torrent technology and set up clients on their mirrors :)
-
I find that utorrent not only lacks some features I love, but it also has much less respect for the connection settings I set, in some conditions causing poor internet performance, and even crashing routers despite extremely limiting connection settings (100 connections global max).-Kamel
µTorrent also did that on my router but it's not just the number of connections that is the problem - it's also how fast they're made.
My router was resetting every few hours using µTorrent no matter what connection limit I used until I changed two Advanced values - since then, not one µTorrent related router reset.
bt.connect_speed = 8
net.max_halfopen = 4
All of which is mentioned in the TroubleShooting section here (http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=15992).
-4wd
I see, I was unaware of these settings. That was the problem, the amount of half open connections utorrent used. I still prefer deluge though, for many other reasons. One of them being the half open connection limit is very easily settable from the interface.
-
The opensores community
-f0dder
What was that you were saying earlier about calling names and throwing accusation around for no good reason? ;D ;)
-
There is no "open source community".
-
The opensores community
-f0dder
What was that you were saying earlier about calling names and throwing accusation around for no good reason? ;D ;)-40hz
Whoops, that was a slip - didn't actually intend to write that, even if I'm not always superhappypositive about the opensoresurce (or, rather, GPL + zealots) mentality :)
There is no "open source community".-Tuxman
Call it what you want. I could be a bit more precise and say "the network of people running mirrors for the various linux distros", but whatever.
-
I see, I was unaware of these settings. That was the problem, the amount of half open connections utorrent used. I still prefer deluge though, for many other reasons. One of them being the half open connection limit is very easily settable from the interface.
-Kamel
µTorrent and other P2P programs make most routers cry. In the last year or so it's been getting better, but anyone who plans on using P2P programs extensively needs to do a lot of research on routers or they will be sorry. A lot of routers are programmed to keep track of 512-1,024 connections and this includes half-open connections. Unfortunately, some P2P programs come with default settings that expect to use 2,000 connections and sometimes 3,000 connections or more. This behavior, of course, makes those routers crash. Hard.
-
I'm no tech-savvy person, and I download torrents and my router seems happy enough. It's a Linksys router with the Tomato (http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=160) firmware, by the way.
-
I'm no tech-savvy person, and I download torrents and my router seems happy enough. It's a Linksys router with the Tomato (http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=160) firmware, by the way.-TucknDar
Running Tomato and not being tech-savvy? I sense a bit of contradiction in that sentence ;)
-
Running Tomato and not being tech-savvy? I sense a bit of contradiction in that sentence ;)-f0dder
Laugh...you beat me to it, f0dder!
TucknDar, running any third-party firmware will relieve you of 99% of any limitations your router may have had. If you had stuck with the stock firmware you most likely would not be having such great luck with torrents.
-
I'm no tech-savvy person, and I download torrents and my router seems happy enough. It's a Linksys router with the Tomato (http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=160) firmware, by the way.-TucknDar
Running Tomato and not being tech-savvy? I sense a bit of contradiction in that sentence ;)
-f0dder
Laugh...you beat me to it, f0dder!
-Innuendo
;D ;D ;D Spot on!
(Especially considering Tomato :-* is probably the best of breed when it comes to replacement firmware for consumer routers.)
-
(Especially considering Tomato :-* is probably the best of breed when it comes to replacement firmware for consumer routers.)-40hz
Tomato is very good, but it cannot match the number of routers that DD-WRT supports. I'd love to try Tomato (or OpenWRT or some of the others), but my router is only supported by DD-WRT.
That's okay, I guess...DD-WRT gives me access to more features than I'll ever use & is much more responsive than the stock firmware.
-
Tomato is very good, but it cannot match the number of routers that DD-WRT supports. I'd love to try Tomato (or OpenWRT or some of the others), but my router is only supported by DD-WRT.
That's okay, I guess...DD-WRT gives me access to more features than I'll ever use & is much more responsive than the stock firmware.
-Innuendo
Don't get me wrong. DD-WRT is a fine choice too. I've used both.
But from my experience (and what I've read) it basically comes down to stability vs features. Tomato is the more stable product. DD-WRT has more built-in functionality.
I don't know if anybody else had this experience, but I found Tomato to be significantly more stable than DD-WRT on Linksys hardware. For some strange reason, DD-WRT has a habit of "going off into limbo" on some Linksys routers. Once that happens, they invariably need a 'bounce' (i.e. hard power cycle) to get them back up because you can no longer access the web interface to do a soft reboot.
I've also had occasions where DD-WRT would repeatedly drop a PPoE/DSL connection on certain WRT-54G routers no matter how much I adjusted various settings to prevent it from happening. Installing Tomato on those same routers fixed the problem permanently without needing to tweak anything.
Just my 2¢ 8)
-
It might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I use Opera's built-in torrent download handling.
-
I see, I was unaware of these settings. That was the problem, the amount of half open connections utorrent used. I still prefer deluge though, for many other reasons. One of them being the half open connection limit is very easily settable from the interface.
-Kamel
µTorrent and other P2P programs make most routers cry. In the last year or so it's been getting better, but anyone who plans on using P2P programs extensively needs to do a lot of research on routers or they will be sorry. A lot of routers are programmed to keep track of 512-1,024 connections and this includes half-open connections. Unfortunately, some P2P programs come with default settings that expect to use 2,000 connections and sometimes 3,000 connections or more. This behavior, of course, makes those routers crash. Hard.
-Innuendo
This is exactly why this needs to be a configuration option, and it needs to be easily accessable (atleast make it inside an advanced menu if afraid of scaring newbs).
I understand all of these things, believe me, I'm no newb when it comes to any of this. You do have to understand, however, that my router was running DD-WRT in repeater mode, and was repeating a wireless network from my car, strategically parked somewhere between me and an open access point. In situations such as this, it is understandable that you can't exactly torrent things. If you do need to use a torrent (some places force it now, such as world of warcraft updates [since, obviously, they could not afford the bandwidth it would cost to patch all of their clients :huh:], and various "open sores" projects), the default settings murder your router and internet connection. That doesn't really make much sense to me.
But from my experience (and what I've read) it basically comes down to stability vs features. Tomato is the more stable product. DD-WRT has more built-in functionality.
I completely disagree, actually. DD-WRT could not be more stable when used in more or less default settings. It's only when you begin using its advanced or less well implemented features that problems arise. My DD-WRT router ran for months solid, with heavy usage (including torrents etc) never a hitch. As soon as I changed it to repeater mode, all that changed, very quickly. [huge note, i use DD-WRT micro on my current router]
-
[quote author=Kamel link=topic=20392.msg182700#msg182700 date=1256790801
This is exactly why this needs to be a configuration option, and it needs to be easily accessable (atleast make it inside an advanced menu if afraid of scaring newbs).[/quote]
It's not as bad as it used to be. A lot of P2P programs are setting more sane defaults in recent versions, but the only way to get those when you've been using a program for a lot of months (or years) is to wipe your config & re-configure for scratch letting the set-up wizard inject those new safe settings into your new configuration. Otherwise you have to take your fate into your own hands & tweak by hand.
-
New, Beta, for Firefox on Windows - Wyzo: http://www.fireaddons.com/
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
I almost never use bit-torrents, so I have not tried this one either.
-
Do we know what's in the compiled code in those addons? I'm always a little suspicious of addons that can't do what they need to with XUL and/or XPCOM.
Ehtyar.
-
A torrent client without any native code would be pretty interesting... I'd be impressed if it didn't bring just about any machine to it's knees, given decent bandwidth :)
-
Perhaps, but that gives me no further reason to trust their code. Has anyone had a look at it?
Ehtyar.
-
I use ctorrent command line torrent client under Linux and Windows(cygwin)
-
I used to use µTorrent (and thought it was great, especially since it's portable (no need to install)) until I started using Free Download Manager. My torrent "needs" are much like 40hz's, so I'll just quote what he already said.
On those very rare occasions I need to do a torrent download, I'll just use the torrent feature in Free Download Manager (www.freedownloadmanager.org) which is my Win D/L tool of choice for everything else.
Note: I'm not a big torrent freak so I don't need to keep a separate client on hand just to do that. Your needs may be different.-40hz
-
...nice dedications...hmm..it might help.... :Thmbsup: