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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: dr_andus on September 06, 2015, 05:05 PM
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I'd like to ask the community for advice on how best to fix my Win7 installation. I'd like to do a Non-destructive reinstall of Windows 7 (https://www.winhelp.us/non-destructive-reinstall-of-windows-7.html) (as detailed at this link--i.e. an in-place upgrade of Win7 from the original media), so I can keep my existing settings and data. I have never done this before. Is this my best option? Any risks?
Here is what happened. I have a roughly 5-yr old ACER Aspire M7811 PC, with Intel core i7 CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz, 8GB RAM, with AMD Radeon HD 5770 (1024MB) and Win7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1.
The other day I was stupid enough to fall for an AMD Catalyst Software Suite update (even though it failed on me a few months ago, but I was able to recover using system restore then. And even before that, ATI Catalyst Control Center was suspected of messing with my system (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=36589.msg342809#msg342809)). The installation this time failed halfway through, leaving me with a failed driver, so I just had one monitor working at some terrible, unusable resolution.
I tried to do system restore, but halfway through the restore failed, telling me that probably my antivirus software (AVG Free 2015) is stopping it, and it left me with a crippled installation of Windows 7.
One thing that was strange that in the process my system restore points seems to have disappeared, as the next available restore point was in 2012. I'm pretty sure I had some more recent ones even from the past couple of months.
There are too many things to list that went wrong after this incident, but basically a whole bunch of drivers stopped working (the sound card is not working, I can't run Dragon Naturallyspeaking, the printer is not working, I can't connect the scanner or cameras), I can't access system tools such as the Control Panel, Programs, Reliability Monitor, Windows Update etc. MS Office apps load very slowly. Some software would refuse to update (e.g. PDF Xchange Editor), saying the installer was damaged. Directly downloaded .docx files wouldn't open (though they do if I copy them over via a USB drive), and all kinds of other unpredictable, strange behaviour. I'm still only just discovering the various things that don't work.
Here is a pictorial version of the story, of what I managed to grab. (The first one is not of the actual version, but it looked like this one.)
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So, my assessment is that my Windows 7 installation must be damaged and many of my drivers got wiped out. Has anyone tried this in-place installation of Win 7 from the original media? This appeals to me because I would hate to have to reinstall all my software and other data.
Any advice or suggestion would be most welcome.
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i haven't had this same exact problem, but i have done various types of restores and installations. I've never used system restore much nor do i have much trust in it. What i recommend, even though it doesn't fit exactly what you have requested is this:
--copy all your non-standard directories with data over to an external drive (downloaded stuff, temp folders if you have any)
--copy your "Users" directory since this has all your software settings
--copy your program files directories (both x86 and regular)
--use the windows easy transfer feature for yet another backup (you now have 2-3 backups for settings)
--make an image of the whole OS drive if possible
--reinstall windows from scratch
--reinstall all your software
--if a particular software doesn't look right to you or annoys you in terms of the settings, replace the appdata folder of it with what you saved in the users directory
i've never found a better way than this for restoring programs and settings with a fresh install. And i've not had that much luck with non-destructive reinstallations. this always works for me.
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I'd like to do a Non-destructive reinstall of Windows 7 (https://www.winhelp.us/non-destructive-reinstall-of-windows-7.html) (as detailed at this link--i.e. an in-place upgrade of Win7 from the original media), so I can keep my existing settings and data. I have never done this before. Is this my best option? Any risks?-dr_andus
I've done a few and it normally works fine, (ie. I haven't had any problem yet).
A couple of suggestions first:
- Use backup software to image your HDD first before you do anything else, (eg. Macrium Reflect, Paragon, etc), preferably using boot media rather than from within Windows. Check the backup after it's made.
- If you can boot into Safe Mode see if you can remove the AMD Catalyst drivers and your AV program, (to stop it interfering in any other operation - the AV will cease to function after an In Place Upgrade anyway.) This might allow the system to boot normally and you'd only need to reinstall any necessary drivers and your AV.
And FWIW, I don't use System Restore at all since I've never had it work successfully - it's always been faster to reinstall from scratch than fix the problems and crap it leaves behind.
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If you can boot into Safe Mode see if you can remove the AMD Catalyst drivers and your AV program, (to stop it interfering in any other operation - the AV will cease to function after an In Place Upgrade anyway.) This might allow the system to boot normally and you'd only need to reinstall any necessary drivers and your AV.
-4wd
+1 for this
I've had experience with both AVG and Catalyst borking updates so I'd try this first.
and as a rule I just install the video drivers instead of the entire catalyst suite
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FWIW, in this predicament I would x-fer any recently added data to a cloned backup HD, then switch to that HD, and restore the goofed one.
But in any case I wish you success in restoring your OS.
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Thank you very much for all the suggestions!
- If you can boot into Safe Mode see if you can remove the AMD Catalyst drivers and your AV program, (to stop it interfering in any other operation - the AV will cease to function after an In Place Upgrade anyway.) This might allow the system to boot normally and you'd only need to reinstall any necessary drivers and your AV.
-4wd
and as a rule I just install the video drivers instead of the entire catalyst suite
-Target
Please bear with me, as I know next to nothing concerning OS installations and drivers. A couple of things I don't understand...
1) If I uninstall the AMD driver (if I can even find it where it is, as most of the Windows utilities and system tools are not functioning), how will I be able to use my computer? The last time the driver failed during installation (though afterwards I somehow managed to install it, at the cost of wrecking my system), there was only a hugely pixelated display on a single monitor (normally I use 3 monitors), so it was barely useable that way.
2) I did try to look for the AMD driver without the Catalyst Center installation, but I couldn't find it anywhere. It was my impression that it was not possible to install the driver without Catalyst?
Thanks again.
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1) If I uninstall the AMD driver (if I can even find it where it is, as most of the Windows utilities and system tools are not functioning), how will I be able to use my computer?-dr_andus
If you completely uninstall the AMD video driver, (and Catalyst, etc), Windows 7 will use a default video driver, (or an earlier compatible version of an AMD driver), that it has in its driver cache. You might lose all the fancy things associated with manufacturer drivers but you'll normally end up with a minimum of 1024x768 resolution.
If you think about it, how do you get a display when you install Windows for the first time?
That's the driver Windows will fall back to using.
2) I did try to look for the AMD driver without the Catalyst Center installation, but I couldn't find it anywhere. It was my impression that it was not possible to install the driver without Catalyst?
Download the ~220+MB Catalyst suite, when you install it choose Custom. You'll need to select the Catalyst Install Manager but you should be able to only select the AMD Display Driver.
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If you also have audio coming through the HDMI cable to the speakers in your monitor, (if it has any), then you'll need to install the HDMI Audio Driver also.
* Ignore what I've got selected since I'm running the installer on my system which already has the latest update.
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4wd, thank you very much for that, will give it a try.
BTW, I have another PC where I also have had trouble updating the AMD drivers, and the only way the installation was willing to go ahead was when I caved in eventually and selected "AMD Gaming Evolved App"--which I didn't want to do and for which I have no use whatsoever. I might be becoming paranoid but it felt like an underhanded way to force me to install the Evolved App, which did not endear AMD to me any further...
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The mention of uninstalling drivers reminded me of an old support trick that often works in Windows. Boot into safe mode if possible. Open Device Manager(right click on Computer then click Proerties and you should see either a tab or link for it depending on the Windows version) then expand the section for the video card. Find the video card and right click it then click uninstall or delete(whichever it says.. it may vary with the version.. not sure.) Confirm you want to delete the driver. Reboot to normal mode. Windows should detect the hardwre and reinstall the driver. About half the time it works much better than before this was done.
It only takes a few minutes so it is worth a shot.
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BTW, I have another PC where I also have had trouble updating the AMD drivers, and the only way the installation was willing to go ahead was when I caved in eventually and selected "AMD Gaming Evolved App"--which I didn't want to do and for which I have no use whatsoever.-dr_andus
Can't say I've ever had that problem, actually I can't say I've ever had a problem with ATI/AMD drivers at all.
If you want to get rid of the Gaming Evolved thing, look for Raptr in Control Panel->Programs and Features and uninstall it, (had to do it yesterday on my parents machine).
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@shades the weird thing is I didn't try the 15.x driver for a long time because it is still labelled Beta. It has been out for quite a while to be a beta. It's like they gave up on it.
Hmm, I just found a newer 14.x driver and a 15.x from July 2015. I will try them out.
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BTW, I have another PC where I also have had trouble updating the AMD drivers, and the only way the installation was willing to go ahead was when I caved in eventually and selected "AMD Gaming Evolved App"--which I didn't want to do and for which I have no use whatsoever.-dr_andus
Can't say I've ever had that problem, actually I can't say I've ever had a problem with ATI/AMD drivers at all.
If you want to get rid of the Gaming Evolved thing, look for Raptr in Control Panel->Programs and Features and uninstall it, (had to do it yesterday on my parents machine).
-4wd
Installing the 15.x beta I did get an issue with the driver install hanging at around 97% done. If it is a conspiracy or just tired hamsters I do not know. :)
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Miles, 4wd, many thanks for the suggestions, will give them a try.
Though at the moment I do have a fairly recent AMD driver installed (v. 15.200.1046.0), and my 3 monitors are working as they're supposed to, so that's not the issue. The problem is that the rest of Windows is acting up (probably due to the failed System Restore operation). E.g. I can't launch the Control Panel and Programs and Features, which suggests to me that I need to reinstall Windows, right?
I also just checked the Event Viewer and it's full of error reports, since the date of the AMD installation and System Restore failure. E.g. one of the error messages says:
The file system structure on the disk is corrupt and unusable. Please run the chkdsk utility on the volume Acer.
I tried to run the chkdsk utility, and it seems to have identified some errors, but then it itself just disappeared, so I couldn't record the results.
Also, just noticed that if I call up System Information, it says
Can't Collect Information
Cannot access the Windows Management Instrumentation software. Windows Management files may be moved or missing.
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The problem is that the rest of Windows is acting up (probably due to the failed System Restore operation). E.g. I can't launch the Control Panel and Programs and Features, which suggests to me that I need to reinstall Windows, right?-dr_andus
Given the nature of your problems, yes I think an In Place Upgrade is going to be the minimum way to recover it short of a full re-installation. Just make sure to do at least one full disk image before starting, (two onto separate media if possible - test them after), because if you lose any files during the process you should be able to mount the backup images to recover them, (at least with Paragon or AOMEI Backupper, don't know about Macrium Reflect - @Miles ?)
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Thanks for the advice, 4wd. Though the irony of my situation is that I will be creating an image of a corrupted Windows installation--still, at least my machine is working currently, even if some features are unusable.
I do have recovery media I created when I bought the machine, but then I wouldn't want to restore it to that state, as that would mean losing all my settings and software I installed since then. I guess that is my last option, if everything else fails.
OK, I'm about to get started on this. According to some of the comments on the www.winhelp.us (https://www.winhelp.us/non-destructive-reinstall-of-windows-7.html) website this can take several days...
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Though the irony of my situation is that I will be creating an image of a corrupted Windows installation ...-dr_andus
The idea of the image is to save all the files that you forget about when you do a backup, eg. files on the Desktop, settings for programs (you can usually just copy them back into their AppData folder), etc - all the little things.
Plus it also gives you a baseline, you can always restore it and try some other method that might produce a better result, or restore it to another drive just to copy files off.
But if you can, copy all your Document stuff onto a separate drive which will be easier to restore from if necessary, (rather than mounting a backup image).
According to some of the comments on the www.winhelp.us website this can take several days...
Sheesh, I don't think I've ever done an In Place Upgrade that took more than 3 or 4 hours and most of that was updating Windows after it had re-installed.
It may pay to disconnect from the network before you start so that the Windows installation process doesn't go searching for updates, which can slow it down a lot.
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4wd, thank you very much for all your advice, it's really very helpful.
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Just make sure to do at least one full disk image before starting, ... because if you lose any files during the process you should be able to mount the backup images to recover them, (at least with Paragon or AOMEI Backupper [..]
-4wd
did this lately with AOMEI Backupper (free version . created image backup + mounted to recover files). I restored OS partition from image a couple of times as well. Was much relieved that everything worked, as I hadn't done a restore of an image in years.
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Well, looks like my PC is well and truly messed up. I just tried to do my first AOMEI Backupper backup, and if I choose in the settings VSS (Microsoft's backup technique), I get this error message:
Failed to enable VSS. It may be caused because VSS service is disabled or there is no VSS service. Please check and try again.
Information Code:4140
The backup driver works improperly, you could restart the computer to solve the problem.
and if I choose AOMEI's built-in technique instead, I get:
Information Code:4140
The backup driver works improperly, you could restart the computer to solve the problem.
I guess I'll try to restart the system, and if that doesn't work, I'll uninstall the AMD driver and AVG manually (as suggested by some of you above) and try again. I thought I could unistall those two after the backup, but maybe it has to be other way round?
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My philosophy has always been: When in doubt, backup your personal data and docs, and then reinstall the OS from scratch.
Ideally this is done on a new hard drive in case it was a hardware fault on the hard drive (and because it lets you leave the old OS/drive alone).
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I may still very well have to do that (in fact I won't have another option if my in-place upgrade doesn't work).
But I have so many various software installed for which I may not even have the original installers (yes, I've been sloppy with that, I've learnt my lesson now) that it could take me a couple of weeks to reinstall them all (if I can even get copies of them). This would mean putting all my other urgent work on hold for which I need my machine and software.
I'll just try the in-place upgrade solution to see if by any chance I might get away with not having to reinstall everything manually.
I did a disk check yesterday and it seems to have been fine, so fingers crossed it's not a hard drive problem.
Anyway, VSS still doesn't work, but upon restart AOMEI has been able to get started, so I'm moving ahead (for now).
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Anyway, VSS still doesn't work, but upon restart AOMEI has been able to get started, so I'm moving ahead (for now).
-dr_andus
Have you checked Volume Shadow Service in the services.msc applet? It may be set to disabled. On my Laptop I have it set to automatic but often I have to start it manually using this command from an administrative command prompt:
net start vss
For some reason it seems if I start it manually once then it survives warm booting for the rest of the day. If it is already running using net start doesn't hurt anything. It will show a message saying vss was already started. :)
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Well, looks like my PC is well and truly messed up. I just tried to do my first AOMEI Backupper backup, and if I choose in the settings VSS (Microsoft's backup technique), I get this error message:
Failed to enable VSS. It may be caused because VSS service is disabled or there is no VSS service. Please check and try again.
Information Code:4140
The backup driver works improperly, you could restart the computer to solve the problem.
and if I choose AOMEI's built-in technique instead, I get:
Information Code:4140
The backup driver works improperly, you could restart the computer to solve the problem.
-dr_andus
did you try Aomei via their bootable disc?
I suspect that should work. IIRC it's Win PE based. I made one on a USB stick -- didnt use it to create backup, but it worked well for restore. (Think it's a seperate download from thier site.)
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Miles, Tom - thanks for the suggestions. I don't know if it's because my PC is 5 yrs old, but all operations take many long hours. I spent the whole afternoon, evening and night yesterday just running chkdsk (it must have been about 6+ hrs), and right now I'm in the 3rd hour of my very first AOMEI backup. Although the VSS didn't work, AOMEI did finish the backup (took about 2hrs for 284GB), and now it's 47% through checking backup integrity.
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did you try Aomei via their bootable disc?
-tomos
Not quite sure what you're referring to. Do you mean "Create Bootable Media: Make a bootable rescue media such as a CD/DVD or USB drive", which is under Utilities in AOMEI Backupper Standard? I will try that next.
As for the backup, AOMEI is telling me that "the image is valid and integrated. The operation has been completed successfully." So tomorrow I can start with the Windows re-installation.
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did you try Aomei via their bootable disc?
-tomos
Not quite sure what you're referring to. Do you mean "Create Bootable Media: Make a bootable rescue media such as a CD/DVD or USB drive", which is under Utilities in AOMEI Backupper Standard? I will try that next.-dr_andus
Yes.
(I see there's also a Linux option - I chose the Win PE option and had to to download the necessaries from the Aomei site.)
AFAIK, you'll need it if you want to restore the OS partition - so I would create it before repairing or reinstalling OS.
Also, if you haven't already, be sure to create a Windows 'System Repair Disc' (if your system can create it - you can also use one created on another machine AFAIK) -
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So tomorrow I can start with the Windows re-installation.-dr_andus
best of luck!
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be sure to create a Windows 'System Repair Disc' (if your system can create it - you can also use one created on another machine AFAIK)
-tomos
Thanks for the tip, will do. Control Panel is inaccessible on this PC, but fortunately I have another Win7 PC in the household.
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To the description of the symptoms in the OP I should also add that recently I tried to get into the BIOS to fix something and it was also not working properly.
When I tried to use keyboard arrows to navigate the menu, BIOS would go crazy and the cursor would start cycling through the menu items at huge speed and then I would have to hit enter or escape to stop it, at which point it would stop at a seemingly random menu item, but never the one I wanted, so it took me forever even to just cancel operations and get out of there.
It was like a crazy fruit machine (slot machine). I don't know anything about how to fix or update BIOS but it seemed like another indication of things not being right.
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When I tried to use keyboard arrows to navigate the menu, BIOS would go crazy and the cursor would start cycling through the menu items at huge speed and then I would have to hit enter or escape to stop it, at which point it would stop at a seemingly random menu item, but never the one I wanted, so it took me forever even to just cancel operations and get out of there.-dr_andus
Sounds like the keyboard has sticking keys but one thing you could do is change the CMOS battery, (normally a CR2032 (http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-CR2032-lithium-batteries-pack/dp/B002Q3OBFE)), it's probably nothing to do with the problem but if you haven't changed it previously, then 5 years is a long time considering there's no knowing what state the battery was in to start with.
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Sounds like the keyboard has sticking keys but one thing you could do is change the CMOS battery, (normally a CR2032 (http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-CR2032-lithium-batteries-pack/dp/B002Q3OBFE)), it's probably nothing to do with the problem but if you haven't changed it previously, then 5 years is a long time considering there's no knowing what state the battery was in to start with.
-4wd
Thanks, I never knew that existed!
Yeah, speaking of a 5-yr old PC and all the trouble it's causing me at the moment, I am seriously contemplating whether I'd be better off getting a new PC (or even an ultrabook, as it's about the same price). The thing that's holding me back is that this system was still fairly usable just a couple of months ago, so it seems like a waste not to try to restore it.
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Sounds like the keyboard has sticking keys but one thing you could do is change the CMOS battery, (normally a CR2032 (http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-CR2032-lithium-batteries-pack/dp/B002Q3OBFE)), it's probably nothing to do with the problem but if you haven't changed it previously, then 5 years is a long time considering there's no knowing what state the battery was in to start with.
-4wd
Thanks, I never knew that existed!
Yeah, speaking of a 5-yr old PC and all the trouble it's causing me at the moment, I am seriously contemplating whether I'd be better off getting a new PC (or even an ultrabook, as it's about the same price). The thing that's holding me back is that this system was still fairly usable just a couple of months ago, so it seems like a waste not to try to restore it.
-dr_andus
You might hang onto it as your "guinea pig machine." When you want to experiment try stuff on the expendable machine first. ;)
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Well, I hit a dead end with my in-place upgrade installation pretty quickly. I'm following the instructions on www.winhelp.us (https://www.winhelp.us/non-destructive-reinstall-of-windows-7.html), launched setup.exe from my Windows 7 DVD, and after I click on "Install now," I get the following error:
Windows could not retrieve infromation about the disks on this computer.
When I checked the compatibility online, and downloaded and tried to run the "Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor", It gave me the error message:
The Windows Installer Service could not be accessed. THis can occur if the Windows Installer is not correctly installed. Contact you support personnel for assistance.
When I Googled what could be causing the first error message, one suggestion was that "Virtual Disk Service" was not set to "automatic." I fixed that, but I still got the same error message after rebooting. Reading up more on the matter on the (Microsoft Forum (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/windows-could-not-retrieve-information-about-the/45b06484-c6b0-4c6b-86a2-1e2e3e05aebd?auth=1)), there are suggestions that
The install failure that you are describing is usually caused by driver problems with either the motherboard chipsets or the hard disk controllers. I would contact either your OEM or motherboard manufacturer and obtain the most current chipset and controller drivers.
Well, this is above my skill set and patience level, so I presume there is not many other options left than restoring the PC to factory settings. I wonder whether even that is going to work, considering how vital drivers seem to be damaged. It's amazing that one AMD driver installation failure (plus the failed System Restore) could wipe out an entire range of essential drivers.
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OK, the deed is done. Restored my PC to factory conditions as of October 2010. Quite a time travel experience...
Boy, am I glad those recovery DVDs didn't deteriorate in all that time!
Now looking forward to a week of reinstalling software from scratch... But I learnt my lesson about incremental system backups.
Thank you to you all for all the help and advice.
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I did a clean install of Win7, and within the first 30 min I had a video hardware error (this is from Reliability Monitor):
Description
A problem with your video hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
Followed by:
Summary
Shut down unexpectedly
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
Maybe this is really telling me that the AMD driver problem was maybe a video card hardware problem.
I don't really know where to begin with replacing a video card and whether it's worth it, but if that is really the culprit behind all my problems, then maybe experimenting with different AMD drivers is never going to solve the problem.
P.S. And then the only Windows update that failed so far was
ATI Technologies Inc. - Display - ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series
Display software update released in April, 2011
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I did a clean install of Win7, and within the first 30 min I had a video hardware error (this is from Reliability Monitor):
Description
A problem with your video hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
-dr_andus
As a simple possible fix:
- Shut down the computer, if the PSU has a power switch turn it off, otherwise turn it off at the power outlet but leave the power cable plugged in. Push the computers power on switch for a few seconds, this will discharge anything left in the PSU. (Of course, if the computer powers up, you've still got power being supplied to it :) )
- Remove the side panel of the computer.
- Ground yourself by holding the metal chassis for a few seconds.
- Unplug the separate power lead going to the video card, if it has one - some do, some don't.
- Remove the video card, there will be a small plastic locking clip on the PCIe slot you'll need slide/push out the way as well as any screws/clips holding it at the bracket end. Avoid touching the contacts and/or any other bare component leads on the card if possible.
- Re-install the video card making sure it's properly seated and replace any screws that you removed.
- Keeping your fingers out the way, re-power the computer and let it run for a while doing whatever you'd normally do.
With any luck, it will have been just the contacts within the PCIe slot or on the card getting a little dirty. The reseating will normally fix that problem, the constant heating/cooling cycles also sometimes causes the card to shift possibly causing intermittent or high resistance contacts - depends how good the retaining fixtures are.
If it seems to be working normally again, put the side panel back on while powered down.
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Maybe this is really telling me that the AMD driver problem was maybe a video card hardware problem.
I don't really know where to begin with replacing a video card and whether it's worth it,
older video cards are frequently discarded or available super cheap; having a spare one is never a bad idea.
it's absolutely sensible to get your hands on a spare cheap video card and try it -- it sounds like that may be your problem.
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it's absolutely sensible to get your hands on a spare cheap video card and try it -- it sounds like that may be your problem.
-mouser
If a person has techie friends, they often have one or more video cards laying around doing nothing they might let you have.
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Too bad you are in the UK. When I finally got around to replacing the card in my quad core I found a clearance item on newegg. A good enough for my purposes video card with 1/2 GB ram for around $20 plus a couple bucks shipping.
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Sounds like the keyboard has sticking keys but one thing you could do is change the CMOS battery, (normally a CR2032 (http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-CR2032-lithium-batteries-pack/dp/B002Q3OBFE)), it's probably nothing to do with the problem but if you haven't changed it previously, then 5 years is a long time considering there's no knowing what state the battery was in to start with.
-4wd
Indeed, I have a CR2032 in there, except that it is of "NewSun" brand. I've never heard of that brand before. But I'll be replacing it shortly.
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As a simple possible fix:
- Shut down the computer, if the PSU has a power switch turn it off, otherwise turn it off at the power outlet but leave the power cable plugged in. Push the computers power on switch for a few seconds, this will discharge anything left in the PSU. (Of course, if the computer powers up, you've still got power being supplied to it :) )
- Remove the side panel of the computer.
- Ground yourself by holding the metal chassis for a few seconds.
- Unplug the separate power lead going to the video card, if it has one - some do, some don't.
- Remove the video card, there will be a small plastic locking clip on the PCIe slot you'll need slide/push out the way as well as any screws/clips holding it at the bracket end. Avoid touching the contacts and/or any other bare component leads on the card if possible.
- Re-install the video card making sure it's properly seated and replace any screws that you removed.
- Keeping your fingers out the way, re-power the computer and let it run for a while doing whatever you'd normally do.
With any luck, it will have been just the contacts within the PCIe slot or on the card getting a little dirty. The reseating will normally fix that problem, the constant heating/cooling cycles also sometimes causes the card to shift possibly causing intermittent or high resistance contacts - depends how good the retaining fixtures are.
If it seems to be working normally again, put the side panel back on while powered down.
-4wd
OK, I have just done this. The AMD graphics card was very dusty all around. I used a painter's brush to clean off the dust (also to tease it out from the inside via the fan), as advised on the earlier thread.
I don't want to speak too soon, but it seems to have done the trick so far. I was able to install the latest version of the AMD Catalyst driver, and it seems to be working fine.
Thanks for the suggestions about getting another card. I'll see how this current fix goes first. I did actually do a quick search here in the UK for a compatible but higher spec card to replace this with, but the prices quoted (on Amazon UK, for instance) were too high for me (multiple hundred pounds). This whole episode has already convinced me to upgrade to a new machine, so I'd rather spend the money on that.
Too bad you are in the UK. When I finally got around to replacing the card in my quad core I found a clearance item on newegg. A good enough for my purposes video card with 1/2 GB ram for around $20 plus a couple bucks shipping.
-MilesAhead
That's a whole lot cheaper than what I found in the UK. I was either looking in the wrong places, or maybe in the UK there is a shortage of these older cards, which is driving their price back up again.
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One thing I didn't think to ask. Does the mother board also have a built in video chip set? Sometimes there is video built into the motherboard but a graphics card is added for better performance and the dedicated video ram. If there is a video output connector that does not go to the card it may be possible to remove the card and still have a working computer.
That way you could keep it as a guinea pig machine without spending any money on it. Assuming the cleaning does not permanently fix the issue.
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One thing I didn't think to ask. Does the mother board also have a built in video chip set? Sometimes there is video built into the motherboard but a graphics card is added for better performance and the dedicated video ram. If there is a video output connector that does not go to the card it may be possible to remove the card and still have a working computer.
That way you could keep it as a guinea pig machine without spending any money on it. Assuming the cleaning does not permanently fix the issue.
-MilesAhead
I'm not sure where to look to find that out. I checked in "System Information" and couldn't find anything. But I suspect that the answer is no. My PC did come with a VGA port and an HDMI port, but they both seem to be dead. Instead, when I first unpacked the PC, the instructions said to use the enclosed "DVI to VGA adapters" to plug my two VGA monitors directly into the video card's DVI ports.
Then when I wanted to add a third monitor years later, I had to use a "DisplayPort to VGA adapter/converter" to also plug into the video card. That's when my troubles started, as the DisplayPort adapter would occasionally fail, and then I would unplug and replug it to get it going again. Possibly the AMD card didn't like that, and it's also possible that all that plugging/unplugging dislodged the card a bit (and maybe that's why reinserting it fixed my problems this time).
But it's also possible that three monitors is just too much for this video card. They are all of different age, brands, and models. Since the clean reinstall I have only added one monitor, so maybe that's why it's playing nicely so far.
But in any case, this will now become my secondary backup and testing machine (as you suggested), as I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade and also untether myself from the desk. I'll be getting an HP ZBook 14 G2 Mobile Workstation instead.
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Just make sure to do at least one full disk image before starting, ... because if you lose any files during the process you should be able to mount the backup images to recover them, (at least with Paragon or AOMEI Backupper [..]
-4wd
did this lately with AOMEI Backupper (free version . created image backup + mounted to recover files). I restored OS partition from image a couple of times as well. Was much relieved that everything worked, as I hadn't done a restore of an image in years.
-tomos
Tom, 4wd - this is probably a stupid question but I don't know anything about restoring files from an image. I've just done a clean install of Win7, so everything has been wiped. Can I still use my AOMEI Backupper system image to selectively restore certain software to the Program Files and some of my data folders (My Documents and User)? Or is that not possible or advisable?
I also have copies of these folders on an external drive, so I could also just drag and drop them back in their place. Or would that mess things up?
Or is it best to reinstall software from scratch, and then drag and drop the "My Documents" data for them?
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When I tried to use keyboard arrows to navigate the menu, BIOS would go crazy and the cursor would start cycling through the menu items at huge speed and then I would have to hit enter or escape to stop it, at which point it would stop at a seemingly random menu item, but never the one I wanted, so it took me forever even to just cancel operations and get out of there.-dr_andus
Sounds like the keyboard has sticking keys but one thing you could do is change the CMOS battery, (normally a CR2032 (http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-CR2032-lithium-batteries-pack/dp/B002Q3OBFE)), it's probably nothing to do with the problem but if you haven't changed it previously, then 5 years is a long time considering there's no knowing what state the battery was in to start with.
-4wd
Now that I can finally access my System Information, I was able to check that my BIOS version is
American Megatrends Inc. P01-B1, 23/03/2010
This seems to be older than the versions available for my PC model on the Acer support page:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Would it be worthwhile for me to upgrade to the latest version? I'm a bit worried about the red text though, as this is something that I have also never done before. Although what's the worst thing that could happen? Another clean install? Or could it permanently brick the machine?
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This seems to be older than the versions available for my PC model on the Acer support page:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Would it be worthwhile for me to upgrade to the latest version? I'm a bit worried about the red text though, as this is something that I have also never done before. Although what's the worst thing that could happen? Another clean install? Or could it permanently brick the machine?-dr_andus
Looks like the top two updates, (2010/04/19 & 2010/06/28), were trying to fix problems with keyboards which may be what you experienced when going into BIOS.
If a BIOS update screws up then the machine becomes a brick unless it's fitted with Dual BIOS, (the second BIOS takes over in the case where the first becomes corrupt).
I've never had a problem doing a BIOS update, (which considering I live in a power outage prone area is almost a miracle), but if you're not comfortable with it you can always grab the machine, a copy of the BIOS update, and take them down to the local computer shop and get them to perform it.
All manufacturers give a warning notice regarding BIOS updates, it's part of their CYA policy.
That said, if you're not experiencing any problems in your day-to-day use of the computer that would be fixed by doing the BIOS update, then don't consider it a necessity that needs to happen.
I just did a BIOS update on mine within the last few days, it was three versions behind, it wasn't to fix anything on my machine, (just added support for CPUs I'll never have) - I just don't like being that far out of sync with the latest update ... it's a techie thing ;D
Can I still use my AOMEI Backupper system image to selectively restore certain software to the Program Files and some of my data folders (My Documents and User)? Or is that not possible or advisable?
I also have copies of these folders on an external drive, so I could also just drag and drop them back in their place. Or would that mess things up?
Or is it best to reinstall software from scratch, and then drag and drop the "My Documents" data for them?-dr_andus
You need to reinstall software from scratch, unless they're portable programs, in which case just copy them across to wherever you want them. Documents can be copied across to your new Documents/Pictures/Videos/Music/etc folders.
If you want to copy them from the backup image, install AOMEI Backupper, then under one of the options down the left side, (I think it's Utilities(?) - don't have it installed at the moment), you have the option to Mount (could be Explore) an image. Selecting that will let you choose your backup image which the program will then mount under a drive letter so you can access it through Explorer or some other file manager.
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But in any case, this will now become my secondary backup and testing machine (as you suggested), as I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade and also untether myself from the desk. I'll be getting an HP ZBook 14 G2 Mobile Workstation instead.
-dr_andus
That looks like quite a machine. If it is anywhere near as heavy as my Toshiba I recommend caution when slinging it over your shoulder. Tendinitis has a tendincy to sneak up on you. I had to switch from backpack and computer case to putting all my stuff in a wheeled suitcase. My left are keeps going numb on me. The recuperation by resting it is very gradual and any exertion or lifting of weight sets it back months. One of the security guards at the school told me a lot of faculty get it as they have large Laptops and lug them to and from work every day.
It does look like a nice machine though. :)
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4wd - Thank you very much for the detailed explanation! All the advice in this thread was indeed very helpful. Thank you all! :Thmbsup:
I'll be getting an HP ZBook 14 G2 Mobile Workstation instead.
-dr_andus
That looks like quite a machine. If it is anywhere near as heavy as my Toshiba I recommend caution when slinging it over your shoulder.
-MilesAhead
It hasn't arrived yet, but it's a 14" machine weighing around 1.7 kg (the upper limit of the ultrabook category), which is pretty much the size and weight of my HP Chromebook 14, which I've been carrying around in my backpack. I don't have far to go, so for my use case it is manageable.
I did consider the lighter ultrabooks, especially the Dell XPS 13, the HP Spectre x360, and the Lenovo ThinkPad T450s, but at least in the UK they didn't come with big enough hard drives and/or RAM, and/or were a lot more expensive. I also wasn't sure if some of my favourite Windows apps would be usable on such super high resolution screens. Finally, I'm not ready to make the step up to Win8 and Win10.
What attracted me to the HP ZBook 14 is that it is still relatively portable (compared to the 15.6" and 17" laptops and workstations), while remaining powerful with a lot of storage, and that is easily expandable. Apparently there is a bay inside for a second hard drive; all drives and the battery can be easily swapped (and of course extra RAM added).
The weaknesses are the lower resolution (1920 x 1080 14" ISP screen), apparently the keyboard is mediocre, and it's not as much of a looker as the aforementioned competitors. But I can live with that, considering what I'm getting for the price.
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What attracted me to the HP ZBook 14 is that it is still relatively portable (compared to the 15.6" and 17" laptops and workstations), while remaining powerful with a lot of storage, and that is easily expandable. Apparently there is a bay inside for a second hard drive; all drives and the battery can be easily swapped (and of course extra RAM added).
-dr_andus
that does sound very good
The weaknesses are the lower resolution (1920 x 1080 14" ISP screen), apparently the keyboard is mediocre
-dr_andus
notebookcheck (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-ZBook-14-Workstation.114091.0.html) liked the keyboard. And I think a lot of software UI's are not yet ready for UHD (U for ultra - or whatever they call it), so you might be better off with the FHD/IPS screen (which also gets a positive review btw).
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notebookcheck (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-ZBook-14-Workstation.114091.0.html) liked the keyboard. And I think a lot of software UI's are not yet ready for UHD (U for ultra - or whatever they call it), so you might be better off with the FHD/IPS screen (which also gets a positive review btw).
-tomos
Thanks, I missed that review. Though note that it is for the 1st gen. device, while mine is going to be G2, so I can only hope that they've kept the same keyboard. This review of the G2 (http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/hp-zbook-14-g2-review/) didn't like the keyboard. But it probably depends on what you compare it to. Nothing's gonna measure up to some of the Thinkpad or Apple keyboards.
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Instead, when I first unpacked the PC, the instructions said to use the enclosed "DVI to VGA adapters" to plug my two VGA monitors directly into the video card's DVI ports.
Then when I wanted to add a third monitor years later, I had to use a "DisplayPort to VGA adapter/converter" to also plug into the video card. That's when my troubles started, as the DisplayPort adapter would occasionally fail, and then I would unplug and replug it to get it going again. Possibly the AMD card didn't like that, and it's also possible that all that plugging/unplugging dislodged the card a bit (and maybe that's why reinserting it fixed my problems this time).
But it's also possible that three monitors is just too much for this video card. They are all of different age, brands, and models. Since the clean reinstall I have only added one monitor, so maybe that's why it's playing nicely so far.
-dr_andus
Just to bring this saga to an end, and also if by any chance someone else out there starts having the same problem with this same model (ACER Aspire M7811 PC with AMD Radeon HD 5770 video card), I have narrowed down the problem to plugging the third monitor into the AMD card using a DisplayPort to VGA adapter/converter.
It just seems that this Radeon card and the driver that comes with it can't handle a third monitor with DisplayPort. As soon as I plugged it in (after my fresh Windows install), the AMD Catalyst software struggled to recognise it, and when I tried to rotate one of the 3 monitors into portrait mode, the Catalyst software either crashed or it failed to even detect one or two of the monitors, and it would rotate the one in the wrong direction. I have been able to make the three monitors work with an earlier version of the driver in the past (before the crash), but that's when the system started malfunctioning, and gradually developed more and more problems.
I bought this PC in October 2010, so maybe those were early days for supporting 3 monitors? Maybe this particular AMD card is inadequate for such a task? Or maybe my system was inadequately configured with all three monitors running via the AMD card? I'm not sure what to take away as a learning point from this whole experience. Maybe I have to research more carefully in the future whether systems I buy support more than 2 monitors.
Anyway, the HP ZBook 14 G2 Mobile Workstation I'm getting is supposed to have a powerful video card (AMD FirePro™ M4150), able to support one VGA and one DisplayPort (alongside the onboard screen, so that will make three displays, which should hopefully suffice).
P.S. Just found out that the HP ZBooks can use a single DisplayPort to link multiple additional monitors, so maybe it can be a lot more than 3 after all:
DisplayPort v1.2 supports “Multi-Stream Transport,” which allows multiple video streams across a single DisplayPort connection. This is commonly referred to as DP 1.2 “daisy-chain” feature where multiple displays may be driven by a single DisplayPort connector.
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I don't on my first day be all like a know it all lol.
I have a feeling you didn't follow the proper procedure when installing especially new AMD or ATI drivers.
I'll just say what everyone prolly already knows, download the proper driver exe from amd's driver support page,
Leave it in your download folder for now.
I always wipe all traces of the old catalyst control center, use the driver tool from amd that cleans everything ati from your system32 folder, as an extra measure I open explorer and delete the entire AMD or at least the support folder, then run wise registry cleaner, reboot.
Now you can run the AMD driver exe, hope this help's, never fail's me )).
BTW this doesn't even anwer your question at all does it omg lol sry m8.
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I have a feeling you didn't follow the proper procedure when installing especially new AMD or ATI drivers.
I'll just say what everyone prolly already knows, download the proper driver exe from amd's driver support page,
Leave it in your download folder for now.
I always wipe all traces of the old catalyst control center, use the driver tool from amd that cleans everything ati from your system32 folder, as an extra measure I open explorer and delete the entire AMD or at least the support folder, then run wise registry cleaner, reboot.
Now you can run the AMD driver exe, hope this help's, never fail's me )).
-Murder nova
Wow, that's a pretty thorough process! Keep in mind I'm not an IT person, just a regular user. I've never touched the registry because I'm too scared of fatally messing things up.
But if this is what it takes for a proper AMD Catalyst driver update, why doesn't AMD automate this and build this into their installer? All they give you is a popup with "click here to update your driver", and then things went downhill from there for me...
Thanks anyway, this is really good to know :up: