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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Renegade on November 10, 2010, 07:50 AM

Title: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 10, 2010, 07:50 AM
Well, I've decided on getting an Android phone. It was tough to come to that conclusion. Here's a bit of my reasoning.

* iOS - My wife has an iPhone, so I can use that for iPhone development. Rules out iOS phones.
* Windows 7 - While Windows 7 looks promising, and I love .NET and know they support it, there's not enough devices for it out there. (I plan to develop for whatever platform I buy.)
* Symbian - Symbian? Huh? No. I do not smoke crack nor am I mentally handicapped.
* bada - The Samsung Wave - a bada phone... Man... I would LOVE to get one. I know the bada platform inside out, and it ROCKS! (I have done a lot of work for Samsung on the platform.) Sigh... I know too much and can't wait for bada 1.2 to come out. But I need a phone now... (The possibilities in bada are phenomenal.)
* Palm - Like Symbian, I was not dropped on my head repeatedly as an infant.
* webOS - What OS?
* Blackberry - I'm not really interested in them. Meh. That's it.
* What else is there?
* Android - This is the only truly viable platform at the moment. bada will be an up and comer, while Windows 7 will make inroads as well.

So the HTC Desire HD is now available in Australia, and is pretty much the slickest phone out there. It's got specs that will last for a while, and that gives me a few years to work with it. The screen still isn't as good as the iPhone 4 screen, but it's better than others.


Now, is anyone else using Android out there? I'd like to hear what things people like or don't like about it.

Having looked at different phones, if I were to pick one simply out of UI and beauty, it would come down to the Samsung Galaxy S or the Samsung Wave or the HTC Desire HD. (I've currently got a severely allergic reaction to iOS.)

I plan on going to pick it up today/tomorrow (depending on your time zone).

Any last words of caution, encouragement or whatever? :)


Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 10, 2010, 08:52 AM
I've ordered a Desire HD as well. Been waiting for it for over a month now. I hope I should be getting it sometime within the next two weeks.

I have been using (still am, actually) a Windows Mobile 6 phone until now. But the UI is really not up to date any more and I'm not using any of the business features really. I considered Windows Phone 7, but just think it's too new. Maybe for the next phone after the Desire HD.

Why the Desire HD? I've been looking at the Samsung Galaxy S, but it really looks too much like an iPhone 3GS, but all in plastic. That might make it very light, I agree, but it just looks cheap I think. I also like HTC sense and didn't read much good about Samsung's Android 'addendum'.

The Desire HD might be big, maybe almost too big (I've never actually had one in my hands yet). I actually might have preferred the Desire Z, i.e. the one with the slide-out keyboard. But its specs. are disappointing for a new phone.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 10, 2010, 02:51 PM
I really love my Android phone. Unfortunately I was (unwittingly) an early adopter (I have the G1, the first Android phone in the USA) and the hardware inside just wasn't made for all the new Android stuff.

I highly recommended Android to my family and 3 of my family members now own a Droid X. Unfortunately with the X, Verizon did some stupid crap with the UI, integrating Facebook with it. So all your facebook friends show up in your contact list when you try to find someone to call. You can filter them out, but it's not done by default. And strangely, one of the features I most loved about my phone--the fact that any contact you added on your phone would sync with your Gmail contacts, and vice versa--doesn't happen with the Droid X.

Anyway, I still highly recommend that Android, but I'm nervous about it since the phone companies slap their own crappy stuff on top of the OS/UI.

For what it's worth, I'm running a custom firmware that allows me to get Android 2.2 on my phone (running Vanilla it can only handle 1.6) as well as adding many more improvements and I love it. It's called CyanogenMod (http://cyanogenmod.com). But as I said before, the G1 wasn't really built to handle it all, so on my old phone it runs a little slow. I'm sure on a modern phone if you didn't like the slapped on UI crap you could run CyanogenMod very nicely.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Eóin on November 10, 2010, 03:11 PM
I recently installed Android on my HTC HD2, which was a WinMob 6.5 phone, but the excellent hackers over at xda-developers (http://www.xda-developers.com/) have managed a near feature complete port. I've been so impressed with Android that I use it as my daily OS. Certainly when I get my next phone it'll be native Android from the start. The build I'm running is based on CyanogenMod like Deozaan.

You'll be getting yourself a Desire HD at the right time too, it's just be permrooted (http://www.xda-developers.com/android/desire-hd-successfully-permrooted/) so you can now install custom firmware.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: tsaint on November 10, 2010, 03:46 PM
Got a desire hd last weekend and it replaced a samsung galaxy i55503 which I gave to a friend. She really liked the galaxy until she saw and played with the hd.
Now she keeps grabbing for the hd :(
  Anyway, so far the only thing I wasn't happy with was the lack of inbuilt proxy settings which i need for work. (I thought I'd read that that had changed from 2.1->2.2 but I was mistaken)
I did find a proxy app eventually, so now I have absolutely no complaints. It's GREAT!
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 10, 2010, 03:51 PM
tsaint, I really had to laugh when I read your biography ;D
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: xtabber on November 10, 2010, 06:36 PM
HTC Droid Incredible, after more than a decade with Palm devices. No mobile phone offers a PIM that matches Palm's but a smartphone today is so much more than a PIM. I like it a lot. I also like the HTC Sense UI.

Android phones are really tightly integrated with Google and Google's services, which is good if you use them,  but some may not appreciate as much.  Apple has many more apps now, but I expect Android to catch up, at least for anything I'm interested in. It also allows some things that iOS can't at this time. My initial though was that animated wallpaper was a ridiculous concept, until I found that I could have my up-to-date local weather radar running as wallpaper. That's really useful where I live.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Eóin on November 10, 2010, 06:51 PM
Android phones are really tightly integrated with Google and Google's services, which is good if you use them,  but some may not appreciate as much.

I'm not a fan of Google's big-brother world, so I don't really like it. It is damn handy though :-[
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 10, 2010, 07:16 PM
Writing some software to fix some data my wife needs for her thesis. After that, I think I'm off to go get my new phone~! :D

To be honest, I'm a bit nervous as I've been horribly underwhelmed by most of the phones I've had in the past, and I always buy at the high-end of the market, so the comments here are encouraging.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 11, 2010, 05:21 PM
Well, got the phone. Paperwork when you're a foreigner is always painful, but anyways...

So far:

* Android Market is infinitely superior to the iTunes App Store -- Still could use improvement though
* Some things are slightly easier on the iPhone - minor
* Android developers could take some lessons from the iPhone for UX (e.g. dismissing a dialog onscreen vs. being forced to use the back softkey)
* Doesn't come with Swype installed -- big minus -- Can't find it in the Android market either, double-minus
* Screen and device are just gorgeous -- double-plus - very nice feel to the phone
* Imported Facebook contact info in a snap - nice
* "Back" is always the back softkey - sometimes annoying as it is harder to reach than a button onscreen at the top of the phone
* 3 "News" program icons by default? Kind of poor planning there - minor issue
* Could not unlock it immediately - carrier issue (Vodaphone)
* Carrier (Vodaphone) program icon goes to their website -- not a mobile site - designed for desktop/laptop computers - simply stupid - again, carrier issue (did anyone expect competence from a carrier?)
* Good selection of software already on phone - some trial software on there too though - not all free & ready to use (e.g. SoundHound)
* Games program icon goes to Vodaphone website - I'm detecting a pattern here... I think this is an "uncle-daddy" issue.
* Hardware & OS is far more capable than an iPhone (literally - I'm not being anti-Apple here) - proof: I've got a metal detector program on the phone that really works. You cannot do that on an iPhone.
* Korean keyboard (Google) didn't work - uninstalled it
* Softkey backlight turns off sometimes, making them hard to see.
* Lots of Korean software available in Android marketplace - quickly found Samsung Securities & installed it (not tried it yet)
* Default browser page is http://live.vodaphone.com/ which goes to a non-mobile viewable regular web page - completely moronic & again, an uncle-daddy carrier issue - msn.com or google.com would make more sense as they are useful.
* Included ringtones are ok, but nothing spectacular - lots of midi still, but they are both midi and wav
* Included themes and wallpapers are attractive
* "Smart Dial" is very cool.

Definitely a positive experience right off the bat. Minor issues are mostly carrier-related, and seem generally about them being self-centered and greedy with no real consideration for their customers other than as moneybags.

The iPhone does have a bit better UX design though. I suppose maybe I'm used to it, but the "back" softkey seems a bit backwards after having all of those on the screen.

The interface takes a bit of getting used to if you're coming from an iPhone. It is still much better than Windows CE though, which isn't hard.

The UI is clean and easy to use.

I've not actually used the phone yet, so I can't comment on the audio quality. I'm hoping that it's a bit better than I've seen in the past.

For the speakers, they're better than on an iPhone, but still so-so. This is an area where I'm picky though. I do write audio software, play an instrument, and have some high expectations for sound.

I remember an LG phone in 2003 that was simply MIND-BLOWING! While the speakers were still small, the sounds was better than anything I've ever heard on a mobile device. Real, true 3D sound. Not the fake stuff you normally get. I'd like to see the device manufacturers focus a bit more on audio quality like that.

Anyways, I'm happy with the phone so far. I don't anticipate that changing.

And I'll be running out to get MonoDroid very soon! :D Yay~!



Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 11, 2010, 05:33 PM
* Doesn't come with Swype installed -- big minus -- Can't find it in the Android market either, double-minus

If Swype isn't included, then it might not be available for that phone. Swype isn't available on the market for ANYBODY because their entire business is based off of bundling it, kind of like OEM software.

Most phones that have it don't have it enabled by default. You have to go into your input settings and enable it first.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 11, 2010, 05:46 PM
After checking, it looks like Swype is in beta now. Oh well.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: tsaint on November 11, 2010, 05:48 PM
tsaint, I really had to laugh when I read your biography ;D
It was meant to induce a depressed mood, not one of levity!

Renegade,
re swype... you could try SlideIt as a temp replacement and see how you like it
http://www.androidtapp.com/slideit-keyboard/ (http://www.androidtapp.com/slideit-keyboard/)
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 11, 2010, 06:14 PM
After checking, it looks like Swype is in beta now. Oh well.

Are you sure about that? There was a beta available on the Marketplace a long time ago, but since they've "released" the full version they've decided their business model is akin to OEM, as I explained before.

I'll never be able to get Swype for my G1 because of this.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 11, 2010, 06:42 PM
It's too bad that Swype isn't available. Oh well.

Thanks for the SlideIt link. I've downloaded the demo and will give that a spin.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: TucknDar on November 12, 2010, 01:38 PM
Not much to add to this thread, except praising Android further. I own a "regular" Desire (my second as the first one was stolen...), and it's quite an amazing phone. Plenty of useful (and useless) apps out there. Good luck with your Desire HD, Renegade.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Eóin on November 12, 2010, 02:19 PM
There was a beta available on the Marketplace a long time ago, but since they've "released" the full version they've decided their business model is akin to OEM

Swype is still is closed beta, it's not finished last I checked. I hope when it is finished it'll be available to buy and install it. Of course if not there'll always be a hacked version for download, and in spite of other my dislike of pirating software, I for one wouldn't feel guilty if no other source were available.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 12, 2010, 02:38 PM
There was a beta available on the Marketplace a long time ago, but since they've "released" the full version they've decided their business model is akin to OEM

Swype is still is closed beta, it's not finished last I checked. I hope when it is finished it'll be available to buy and install it. Of course if not there'll always be a hacked version for download, and in spite of other my dislike of pirating software, I for one wouldn't feel guilty if no other source were available.

Swype is definitely finished. I've used it on other phones that come with it. Some of the folks at XDA Developers were porting it to other phones when they got a message from the Swype team (emphasis added):

We see you have re-packaged our software and are distributing it. We are glad to hear that you guys like Swype, but we are obligated to state that we don't condone such activity nor support the result. Naturally those of you asking for new languages and features should wait until we launch a device in your market. Obviously, we won't support unlicensed versions of our software. One might ask why we don't just release the .cab file ourselves and save everyone the hassle. The reason is that we have spent seven years building Swype and we want to try to make a living selling our software. That means someone needs to pay for it. Thus far, our business model is OEM licensing. We do plan to get to direct-to-consumer distribution but it is a different sort of business and thus it is hard to say when. In the meantime, enjoy using Swype and please look out for a better, more integrated, and legal version coming soon to a phone near you.

Regards,
The Swype Team

PS. Our lawyer has asked us to remind everyone about copyright infringement and to inform you that Swype reserves all of its rights.
-http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5127287&postcount=2

Also, note the date. That was a year ago. If it doesn't come as OEM software on your phone, it's probably not coming.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Eóin on November 12, 2010, 03:30 PM
But that was the Windows mobile version Deozaan, which indeed has been available OEM on a number of HTC phones. For example, it was on the US HD2 phone, but not my EU version :(

It's the Android version which is still in beta (http://beta.swype.com/).
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 12, 2010, 03:57 PM
It's the Android version which is still in beta (http://beta.swype.com/).

I have personally used Swype on the Droid X and have seen it in use on other Android phones which it comes as OEM, so I guess it being in beta is like Google products which are in beta for years even though they're being used by (nearly) everyone.

From Swype's FAQ:

How can I buy Swype? / When will Swype be on the Android market?

We have considered a direct-download sales model, but there are two challenges to that approach:

  • Customer Support. Providing Swype users with the level of professional support they deserve is a priority for us. We're still a small (but quickly growing!) company, and we don't have the resources necessary to support a full end-user sales model. It is much more efficent for us to focus on improving Swype and to partner with large organizations like Samsung and T-Mobile who already have customer support structures in place.
  • Device integration. Swype isn't just an app; it's a keyboard - the most widely used piece of software on a device. It interacts with nearly every single application on the phone. As such, it's more like a system component than an application. For each device release we do a tremendous amount of testing and we *always* find issues due to the varying components - the OS version, the device hardware, the OEM UI implementation, etc. In addition, some features can't be implemented without an OEM's engineering assistance. We end up doing a large amount of work on each device to be sure that you have a great experience entering text using Swype.

So, we appreciate your enthusiasm, but we are not ready to do direct-downloads at this time.
-http://beta.swype.com/android/faq/

You can actually get the installer by pointing your Android phone's browser here (https://beta.swype.com/android/get/) but you need to login with a beta account to install it. So I guess what I'm saying is that unless you can get into the closed beta I think it's more likely that by the time it's available on the Market you'll have upgraded your phone to a newer model that comes with Swype.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 12, 2010, 03:59 PM
* Windows 7 - While Windows 7 looks promising, and I love .NET and know they support it, there's not enough devices for it out there. (I plan to develop for whatever platform I buy.)

I just bought an HTC 7 Surround and love it. Love it. L-O-V-E it  :-*

I've never had a smartphone before, so there is no cross-platform learning curve, which I suspect helps. I was actually a breath away from choosing either an iPhone 4 or an HTC Desire when I thought to ask if the store had any Windows 7 phones (they weren't in any evidence anywhere) and the sales rep pulled this out and handed it to me. Love at first swipe.

FWIW, I spent a lot of time playing with the other two phones and liked them both. The iPhone was definitely the easier to navigate and use, but I can see the attraction of Android. My only major quibble with the Windows Phone 7 OS is that there is no syncing with Outlook?! C'mon! Apple does this really well with the iPod/iPhone. I suspect/fervently hope that this is coming in an update soon...

EDIT: correct a few typos/missing words for clarit... Don't even have the excuse of having typed the above on my new phone, cuz I didn't...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 13, 2010, 08:22 AM
 :-[ Neglected to mention above that the irony of my endless ranting against HAVING to use iTunes with an iPhone/iPod Touch and the fact that I've bought a phone with pretty much the same limitation (I MUST use Zune software with the Windows Phone 7 device) isn't lost on me...

FWIW, the Zune software is pretty slick. I haven't explored it fully - if it will play my DVD's properly I'll probably rip WMP off my system - but it seems good, so far. In fairness to Apple, this is what I had planned to do if I decided to go the iPhone route. Note, however, that I am surprised that Zune was deemed necessary with WMP installed by default on all Windows machines. I suppose it must have to do with the Apps store. BTW, the apps store keeps growing everytime I visit. There's even a fair amount of free stuff that looks OK.

Now, the important stuff:

I just rebooted my computer and note that there are three Zune services installed but that none of them are running and that there is one Zune exe running (Zunelauncher.exe) and that it is using 2 MB of Private Set memory (7MB Working Set). I didn't check what was running at system start with iTunes installed last time I had it (about a month ago).
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 13, 2010, 08:38 AM
I had 2 things against being forced to used iTunes.

1) It's simply miserable, horrible to use.
2) It's nothing more than a store front masquerading as software.
3) Goto 1.

How's the Zune software compared to iTunes?

I've not done anything more than recharge my phone yet.

What I really wish is that the hardware companies would create SDKs for their products and put out a basic version that gives you most everything you need to sync your phone and back it up and load some files into it, then let 3rd parties work with the SDK to create rich sets of functionality and specialized versions for business and the like. It would take effort to put out an SDK like that, but it's not that hard.

Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 13, 2010, 09:57 AM
Zune is completely different - GUI-wise - from iTunes or WMP. It shares some GUI elements with WMC (which I also tore out of Windows 7, mostly because I never used it) but has two GUI modes. On the one hand, there is the screen that appears when you launch the program from its icon (ie without plugging the phone/Zune player in):

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

This is the "Quickplay" screen and it function as the media player. Clicking on any of the links in the upper left takes you to a different GUI. Here's the Collections tab:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

I scrolled down to show two things - what the software does with unknown album/absent album artwork files and what happens to some, but not all, unicode file names (note Johann Pachebel... the rest of the name was in hangul EDIT: with the smaller pic sizes, you'll need to zoom into the image to see it) and yet it handles other unicode, for example the Chinese below. In this regard, it functions no differently than WMC/WMP/iTunes. I suspect it has to do with the tagging, but playing around with files in the past, I've discovered neither rhyme nor reason behind WHY this happens.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Selecting a file to play gives the player:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

One the other hand, interacting with the phone looks like this:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

All of the same tabs are available BUT they now refer to what is located on the phone. This is REALLY obvious because the name of the phone stays to the left of the screen and at the bottom is the graphic of a pc. If you click on that you go back to the collection stored on the PC.

I just tried to play a DVD using Zune but it looks like a no-go. DVD's files are not listed in the file types handled by Zune, so it looks like I'm going to be keeping WMP around  :(

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Sorry, my attempt to show the GUI is ham-fisted at best (I'm not good at this!) and my intention to show the two GUI modes discretely  is an epic fail, but I hope you get the idea.

In sum, I haven't really used the software enough to form a definite opinion about it. It's no worse than iTunes; whether it is any better remains to be seen.

EDIT: uploaded more reasonably sized screenshots and clarified a couple of points...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 13, 2010, 11:30 AM
:-[ Neglected to mention above that the irony of my endless ranting against HAVING to use iTunes with an iPhone/iPod Touch and the fact that I've bought a phone with pretty much the same limitation (I MUST use Zune software with the Windows Phone 7 device) isn't lost on me...

Besides price, this is the main reason why I didn't go for an iPhone 4.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: JavaJones on November 19, 2010, 12:55 AM
Good call on Android. It's the way to go right now unless you like iTunes and/or already have other Apple devices. I got a Samsung Epic about 2 months ago and absolutely love it. It's fast, slick, intuitive, and powerful. And no, the Samsung Galaxy UI is not bad at all, in fact comparing to the DroidX a friend of mine has, it's a good deal better in many respects. But personally I'd prefer no custom UIs at all, or that the custom UIs be simply addons, apps, and widgets that you can add/remove at will. This is fully do-able, but the hardware manufacturers don't realy want it that way.

My one big complaint about my phone, aside from it shipping with Android 2.1 instead of 2.2 (come on!), is battery life. I know this is an issue on most Android phones unfortunately, but apparently the Epic is slightly below average for battery life (though at the time I bought it some reviews were saying it was better than the EVO, which benchmarks I've now seen have shown is not the case). That being said it does come with some benefits in exchange for lower battery life: full multitasking (more on this later) and an incredibly awesome screen (better than the HTC, and, for my taste, better than iPhone 4 due to brightness and color quality).

Unfortunately, if you don't have Swype, then you're really not able to appreciate the full awesome quotient of the Android experience. Swype is probably 25% of the advantage I see for Android over iOS, and hilariously it's in large part this way because Apple won't allow apps like Swype (as I understand it). Sort of cutting off the nose to spite the face kind of thing. Swype is *awesome*; anyone I show it to is blown away by how well it works. It's almost like reading your mind sometimes. And even though I have a slide-out keyboard, I find myself using Swype a lot more. The physical keyboard is still highly useful for anything with lots of numbers and symbols though.

Funny actually, I've not used an iPhone that much, and then only the 3GS, not v4 yet, but I really don't find it to be that wonderfully intuitive or well designed (UI-wise). But clearly I'm in the minority - although my iPhone-owning friend agrees with me, hmm. As I've gotten used to my phone I've come to appreciate many features and ways of doing things. Then I ask my iPhone friend about how he does x or y and he usually just goes "um... I'm not sure if you can", or "yeah, that's a lot easier than iPhone". To be fair, he's not a particularly technical user, but then iPhone should be easy to use for everyone, right?

As for other benefits over iPhone, well as I said above multitasking is a huge and obvious one. This is one of those things that really shows the blindness of Apple fanboys and how brainwashed they are by their corporate overlord (ok, inflammatory language, I know, but I'm sure you won't mine Renegade :D). Before multitasking was available for iOS, and before it was known/rumored that it would be in iOS4, many, many Apple fanboys claimed it simply wasn't necessary, in fact was stupid, would just drain battery (yes, it does, but you can control that), and nobody should/would want it. Then iOS4 comes out with limited multitasking and woah, suddenly multitasking is awesome, but *only* the way Apple is doing it because their way is "the Apple way".

Here's the thing about multitasking: it's one of the most useful functions of my phone, and I can't imagine how anyone could delude themselves into thinking otherwise. This is what happened within 24 hours of getting my phone (true story): I had gotten the Pandora app to listen to music (great app, with a nice widget!), and of course loved using Google Navigation already, and naturally browsing the web was a big part of my phone use. So I was driving in the car, listening to Pandora, and had navigation live, so when new directions came up, it would mute my music, tell me what to do, and then go back to music. Beautiful! Already multitasking is proving useful. But then my girlfriend wanted to look something up while driving - a restaurant I think, in the city we were headed towards. Did she need to quit Google Nav or Pandora? Heck no, she just did it, no problem. No issues with data connection contention, no problems. But then the Yelp site was too cluttered for a mobile screen and it suggested getting the Yelp app, so now we go to install that, it opens Android store, still with the browser open in the background, downloads and installs the app, and now she's using the Yelp app, with the browser open in the background, and Google Nav, and Pandora playing music the whole time. No skips, stutters, or slowdowns during any of this. A few weeks later once I'd rooted my phone I installed a wifi tethering app and there was even more to do simultaneously - wifi tether, google nav (yes, we had mobile wifi going in our car while driving, one word: AWESOME), Pandora, browser. Multitasking is amazing and the OS handles it very well.

By the way I'm pretty sure there is a "metal detector" app on iOS as well, and it "works" in so far as you can use it e.g. for a stud finder (metal studs, screws/nails). I think it uses the magnetometer (compass hardware), probably same on Android. Otherwise you're right on though. ;)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 19, 2010, 01:10 AM
Funny actually, I've not used an iPhone that much, and then only the 3GS, not v4 yet, but I really don't find it to be that wonderfully intuitive or well designed (UI-wise). But clearly I'm in the minority - although my iPhone-owning friend agrees with me, hmm.

Nope, well, if you are I'm in the minority with you! I have stated before that I actually purchased an iPod Touch 4th Gen and returned it and that I've spent a few sessions in stores playing with the iPhone 4 (as it happens, I was doing so today - student of mine works in a cell phone store). I also have several friends with iPhone 3Gs and have played with their phones a fair bit as well. Overall, I don't find the OS particularly intuitive, either. I really don't like all the app icons, it's visually stunning until you try to use it, and then it's just BUSY.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Deozaan on November 19, 2010, 01:35 AM
Speaking of Apple's UIs: Am I the only one who can never get an iPod to work properly? The stupid wheel thingy either doesn't scroll through the list when I circle it with my finger or on the rare chance it does register, it scrolls 3/4 through the list when I just want it to go down one spot! ARGH!
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 19, 2010, 03:22 AM
Concerning the Desire HD: you guys can't imagine how difficult it is to get thing thing in Europe. There's a German-speaking mobile phone forum that has over 5600 posts in one thread about nothing else but where you can and can't buy one and people complaining that you can't buy the phone anywhere despite HTC saying that it is now widely available. I'm still waiting for mine ...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 19, 2010, 11:04 AM
I have noticed that my HTC Desire HD battery does drain quickly. Well, it's better than other phones I've had anyways.

For the metal detector in iOS, I was going on what the developer of the metal detector that I have was saying. I've not looked for a metal detector for the iPhone. I just trusted that he knew what he was talking about. (Could be dated before iOS 4 too. Dunno.)

Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Eóin on November 19, 2010, 12:02 PM
Out of interest Renegade? How quickly is quickly? My Touch HD2 drains very fast whereas the previous Touch HD I had got great batt life.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: steeladept on November 19, 2010, 12:03 PM
I guess I am in a minority here.  I had a Galaxy S for about a month before I gave in and got an iPhone 4.  It really isn't much better, but here is a quick and short list of shortcommings I had with the Android phone/platform I was stuck with before switching:

1)  Doesn't sync with Outlook.  (Dealbreaker!).  It will sync with Gmail (undesired) or Exchange, and that is it.  If you don't use Exchange, then you best set it up to forward to Gmail or you are done.
2)  In the same line, you can not consolidate multiple competing email systems.  Use Yahoo mail?  Must download the Yahoo app.  Use hotmail?  A different app.  What about your work email?  Exchange?  Okay, that does sync with the default email, but if you don't like that client, must download a different app (if it is even available).  What if you use Lotus Notes like my company?  Oops, now you must use the iNotes web client.  No support there.
3)  Lets speak of that infamous Apple lock-in that Android doesn't have.  Well, oh wait, don't have or want GMail?  Oops, sorry, absolutely needed before you can even use the phone.  In all fairness, though, that can't really be worked around.  All platforms have a certain amount of lock-in (Windows 7 requires Zune, iOS requires iTunes, and Android requires GMail).  Just because it isn't iTunes, though, doesn't mean it isn't locked in.  
4)  The Apps.  Granted, Android has a ton of apps, but it is still less than Apple (though that won't last much longer), and the quality, in general, is demonstrably lower.  This is no deal breaker, however, as quality will improved and good apps will rise over time.  I just am not patient enough to wait for that when I can have an iPhone now and choose a different platform in 2 years or less (which is about how long I think it will take for the apps to mature enough to be useable in many cases).

In a later post, I may explain why I think the Android platform is better (there are many reasons there as well), what my hopes for Windows 7 Phone are/were (hopefully Darwin can step in and say what is and isn't met), and what I see as the reasons to choose one platform over another.  After all, it really depends on how you are going to use it.  That said, Renegade, your reasons are solid and I hope you enjoy the phone.
 
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: steeladept on November 19, 2010, 12:33 PM
Okay, I am back.  Daughter is at school now, so I can continue... :P

The Android platform IS better for 2 reasons (and only 2) that I can think of.

1)  They are more friendly to developers.  Anyone on any platform can program, test, and install programs.  That is a BIG plus.  Come on Apple.  You need an Apple computer to program for the iPhone?  Really?  Why?  What is so FABULOUS about Macs that no one else can even see the light of day let alone make an IDE for?  I mean it isn't as if Visual Studio is the single largest, most accepted, feature rich development platform in existence or anything....

2)  They do not limit competing programs on the marketplace.  Well this is not confirmed, but it isn't well known like Apple either.  You want to create a feature-rich email app on the iPhone?  Isn't going to make it to their marketplace if they have any say (and they generally do).  That is why Cydia is nearly as popular and as app plentiful as the Android Marketplace.

IF either of these are important to you AND you can live with the limitations mentioned in the earlier post, than the Android platform probably is for you.  Most of the rest of the differences are smoke and mirrors from what I have seen.  Flash?  Only if you have Android 2.2, which many phones still do not have yet (though this is as close to #3 as I can think of).  Once it is widespread on the Android and/or Windows 7 Phone platforms, expect it to miraculously come to the iOS too.  Multitasking?  iOS 4 supports it too, and (at least on the iPhone 4 hardware) it is implemented the same as the Android multitasking.  Like any high competition arenas, don't expect iOS to roll over and play dead, just because they don't have a feature someone else does.  Moreover, they are generally more easy to use for most people as Renegade has mentioned obliquely in his UX discussions, so I think these changes will be instituted in short order when it starts hitting them in sales.  Until then, I don't see a clear cut winner between any platform coming out soon.  Use what works for you, but do make sure it isn't just jumping on the bandwagon based on the common fallacies out there.   :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 19, 2010, 01:42 PM
Well, I've been silent about this since I got the phone (while I got over my disappointment!), but to my utter dismay (and completely counter-intuitively) Windows Phone 7 does not currently sync with Outlook. WTF?! The iPod 4 that I had did this effortlessly! Anyway, I have doubts that this ability will ever come to WP 7 as I suspect that the point is to lock the user into the Live Cloud. I say this because to sync my Outlook calendar and contacts with the phone I simply copied everything into their counterparts in my Hotmail account (from within Outlook) using the Outlooik Connector. Of course, this means that in addition to being locked into using Zune one must have a Hotmail/Live/MSN e-mail account to sync Outlook. It's pretty simple and works like a charm BUT it means that I have to remember to update the Hotmail calendar and address book, not the default Outlook ones (as I had never used the Hotmail calendar before they are now mirrored, so this isn't too bad. Contacts are more problematic). If I could remove the default Outlook caledar, or set the Hotmail calendar as default, this wouldn't be a problem. It's more a niggle, but an annoying one. Anyway, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and an update will change this... but I'm not holding my breath. BOTOM LINE: I think it's crazy that Apple can sync directly with Outlook but MS can't (well, won't). What's galling is that the promo shots of the start panel clearly show an "Outlook" tile with several messages waiting to be viewed. The decision to remove it must have been quite late in the development cycle.

Multi-tasking is supposed to be coming, but I haven't noticed its absence yet. The app store (Marketplace) is growing every day and there is already far more "stuff" therein than I need or care about. E-mail support is excellent. All e-mail accounts are accessed using the same app but each gets its own tile, which makes keeping it all separate a breeze. I suspect, thought, that heavy users might resent not being able to view all e-mail from all accounts in one place. Hasn't been an issue for me yet, though

Overall, after a week, I'm very happy with the WP7 device. I suspect that I would have been equally happy with any of the alternatives, though. Time will tell...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: steeladept on November 19, 2010, 02:05 PM
Nice.  I happen to use Hotmail as well as Outlook (in fact I use the connector in Windows Live offerings to sync the two), but I would still have an issue with the lock-in just as I do with Google.  Why do I have to use YOUR email service just to use the phone I PAID YOU to have?  WTF.  That isn't right!  At least with iOS and all the issues I have around iTunes, at least they don't FORCE me into using any one service over any other (well except the marketplace, but I can jailbreak it to use Cydia - and frankly Google and Windows do the same for their marketplace anyway!).  It just irks me to no end.  Maybe I will go back to the dumb-phones after all...Grrr....
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Stoic Joker on November 19, 2010, 02:08 PM
Pardon the tangent, but what if any GPS offering is there on the WP7 and how well does it work?
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 19, 2010, 02:15 PM
I have noticed that my HTC Desire HD battery does drain quickly. Well, it's better than other phones I've had anyways.

I still think battery technology is probably the one biggest disappointment of our time (well, from a gadget lover's point of view. I understand that the world has bigger, more essential problems.). Gadgets get faster, smaller, more powerful. But things that are called mobile phones can hardly get through a day without being re-charged. I'm still waiting for the great break-through...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: JavaJones on November 19, 2010, 02:24 PM
steeladept, half of your reasons are email-related. :D I think most people don't have to worry about nearly as complicated an email syncing system as you do. Generally people have, at most, 1 work email and 1 home email. Home email is usually either Gmail, Yahoo, or Hotmail. All 3 I believe can be accessed by either IMAP or POP3, which Android supports. The built-in email client can do IMAP with unified Inbox if desired. That it does not sync with Outlook (I'm not certain what you mean, physically sync when you plug it into the computer?) is unfortunate, and I know a lot of people do want that functionality. It syncs with Exchange, which is the general business case requirement. But many home users do use Outlook, or business users (small business) using Outlook without Exchange. There are a number of suggested solutions out there, 3rd party apps and whatnot. I'm not sure how well any of them work or whether you tried any of them, and I can't vouch for any of them as I don't use Outlook myself. Here are a few (though I guess it doesn't matter now):
Htc Sync (should work for all Android phones) http://blog.brightpointuk.co.uk/synchronise-htc-hero-microsoft-outlook and http://www.htc.com/www/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=1062&news_id=806
Android Sync (early beta) http://www.android-sync.com/
Missing Sync (calendar, notes, contacts, more) http://www.markspace.com/products/android/missing-sync-android.html
Granted several of these are pay apps, but for $40 or so if you can avoid having to deal with iTunes and Apple's *real* lock-in, I'd say it's worth it.
CompanionLink (not free) http://www.companionlink.com/android/
VCORganiser http://www.vecal.biz/vcoIndex.htm

As for lock-in, you do need an account to sync contacts and other things. But I was using my phone before I signed in, so certainly that's possible. I don't know how long you could get along without signing in/signing up to Gmail, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could do it indefinitely, as long as you did not need Google-related services. Granted some of those Google services are the best part of the Android experience (e.g. navigation), but of course that's the price you pay for using almost anyone's services. The app store does require an account as well, but you can get apps in other ways.

I have Flash Lite on my Samsung Epic, Android 2.1, so 2.2 is not required for all Flash functionality. Granted Lite does not work for everything - I'd say about 50% of Flash sites work though. And of course the 2.2 update should be right around the corner which will make the point moot. It would be hilarious to see iOS with Flash given all the vitriol Jobs has spewed about it. I really don't think we'll see that.

Multitasking on iOS is NOT the same as on Android, full stop, period. I'm not just talking from a user perspective, I'm talking from a technical implementation perspective. By default both "suspend" apps that are in the background, yes. On iOS apps can also request a short period of additional background time to e.g. finish a download, or they can notify the OS of a needed future notification event to the user. If they need to do background tasks, they *must* fit into a narrow category of apps that does not for example include things like IM/chat (basically only GPS, VOIP, and Music services). So yes there are limitations. On Android it's a lot more generalized. You can have background services that can do almost anything you want. So yes there's a pretty clear difference. Just as always, on Apple devices what you can do with multitasking is limited by what Apple thinks will "maintain the user experience", on Android *the user gets to define their own experience*.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: steeladept on November 19, 2010, 03:00 PM
Actually, No, most of my complaints are not email related.  They were calendar and contact related, though email is another.  Remember, Outlook is MUCH more than email.  On the other hand, email IS very poorly managed on Android as you somewhat conceded compared to iOS.

As for multitasking, you may be right technically, but if the user can't discern the difference (and I certainly couldn't though I didn't delve into *how* it was accomplished), then is there really a difference?  It is the same argument we have at work.  The system is up, but no one can get to it.  So since it is designed to be used by end users who can't get to it, is it really up?  I say no, systems says yes.  (Just as a reference, I am a systems operations monitor so I see both sides and get caught in the middle.  I am not just a user.)

Lastly, Flash workarounds are NOT flash support.  iOS has some workarounds, but that does not mean it is supported.  For true flash support you need Android2.2
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 19, 2010, 03:18 PM
Actually, No, most of my complaints are not email related.  They were calendar and contact related, though email is another.

Just for the record, ditto! My issue with WP7 and Outlook sycning is almost entirely related to the calendar and contacts. I'm undecided how big a snit to be in about the lack of integrated e-mail viewing... I suspect that this will either be resolved with a future release of mobile office that includes Outlook (or an update to the existing e-mail client) or by a third party app.

Regarding GPS on the handset (wth WP7), there are a large number of apps that report direction, coordinates, altitude, speed (and I bought one for $1.09 - Tracker - before I realised that there are freebies out there, but I like it). As far as a GPS app that will guide you when you drive (I believe there's a TomTom app for the iPhone, no?), I haven't come across one and believe I read somewhere that directed GPS is not supported at the moment, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: clarifited what I meant by "ditto"...
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: JavaJones on November 19, 2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah, that clears up that you were talking about all the rest of Outlook's functionality then, I wasn't really clear on that. You had 4 major complaints, 1 was about email, 1 about syncing of other data to a desktop email/PIM client (Outlook) which I mistook to be about "email". So that was half, as I saw it at the time. ;)

As a user I do notice the difference between iOS and Android multitasking. Some of the use cases I gave in my examples above would simply not be possible on iOS, and I hadn't even started using IM by that time, another impossibility. I wonder whether you're the kind of user that might do a heavy multitasking though. Some aren't. I certainly am.

Flash Lite isn't really a "workaround" it's just a limited version. It came with my phone. But the point will be moot soon enough. :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: steeladept on November 19, 2010, 03:45 PM
Point taken.  The biggest part of multitasking that I tend to use is downloading apps/updates/web pages/etc. and running a few things in the background without interrupting what I am working on just to complete those tasks.  To that end, I think you are right in saying I am not a "heavy" multitasker.  Because of the suspend mode, neither machine truly does what I wanted in multitasking, but it is really a small gripe for me.  In reality, for day-to-day use, I don't really use it much if at all.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 19, 2010, 03:53 PM
From your description, I *think* that WP7 handles multi-tasking in much the same way. For example, if I start downloading and installing an app from the marketplace and then return to my start screen and open up my e-mail, the download and installation continues in the background (just confirmed this by installing the Twitter app while I read a couple of e-mails NOW who's multi-tasking, eh?!  ;D). My take on the multi-tasking issue is that the form factor of a phone doesn't lend itself to intensive multi-tasking anyway! However, I'm a neophyte user, so may find myself frustrated down the road!
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Shades on November 19, 2010, 10:44 PM
I have noticed that my HTC Desire HD battery does drain quickly. Well, it's better than other phones I've had anyways.

I still think battery technology is probably the one biggest disappointment of our time (well, from a gadget lover's point of view. I understand that the world has bigger, more essential problems.). Gadgets get faster, smaller, more powerful. But things that are called mobile phones can hardly get through a day without being re-charged. I'm still waiting for the great break-through...

And I was under the impression that anyone who can invent a better battery will not only gain so much money that even his/her grand-grandchildren are not able to spend it all, it would also be a spark for technology practically equivalent to the wheel. Do not underestimate the (global) impact from better batteries.
 
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 19, 2010, 10:59 PM
My battery life is entirely dependent on how much I use the display. Nothing is even close to it for how much power it uses.

So if I'm playing games or whatever, it only lasts a few hours. However, if I'm not really using it, it's got lots enough power for a full day. I've not really paid too much attention there though and can't say exactly how much standby power it has. I don't really use my phone all that much. If I have 10 phone calls in a month, that's a lot. I use Skype more to talk as I don't really talk to anyone in Australia at all. My last several voice calls have been to a friend in Korea (several), my sister in Qatar (once), my wife in Vietnam (several), and to tech support and sales for my servers (several). None were on my phone. I use an Internet phone as well for talking to people in Korea as it costs me almost nothing.

I'm kind of not really the best person to talk to for a lot of information on battery life. I only really know that games and whatever uses the display takes a lot of power. Standby seems ok for me, but no detailed opinion there.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 20, 2010, 12:03 AM
So far, the battery life on my phone has been getting better each day over the past week. This, I understand, is to be expected. Actually, what's been improving has been the battery status indicator - I haven't really varied my usage much - if anything I've used it more today than in previous days - but the battgey icon is taking longer and longer to go down to one bar. I've yet to run out of juice.

Heh, heh, Renegade. You get more phone calls (and make more) thank I do!
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 20, 2010, 01:01 AM
Heh, heh, Renegade. You get more phone calls (and make more) thank I do!

Yowsers! You really don't use it much at all then! Why would you even get a phone at that rate~? :P :D
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 20, 2010, 02:18 AM
There was a time when gadgets lasted a week on the same charge with regular usage (thinking about my first Palm or my first Digicam). Today, it seems to be widely accepted to have to charge your mobile phone every night (I do so with my current phone). I want powerful gadgets that work weeks or months on the same charge. 
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Renegade on November 20, 2010, 04:09 AM
Yeah, you've got a point. The current state of battery technology is pretty pathetic considering the advances everywhere else.
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on November 20, 2010, 08:28 AM
+1 on battery life...

Regarding "why" I got the phone... My wife and I have a private landline because of her job and I need a contact number for work. Because our jobs intersect, the number I give out cannot be our home number (otherwise it would quickly be in general circulation amongst the very people we are keeping it from!). My contract was up and I wanted something with scheduling capabilities (my work hours are all over the place and change week to week).
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: JavaJones on November 20, 2010, 02:21 PM
Unfortunately we are not guaranteed equal rates of advancement across the gadget/technology spectrum. :D This is why we're still mostly using mouse and keyboard (or touch pad) to control computers, instead of speech or even direct brain interface (or something better?). Considering how far we've come since the first computer shipped with mouse and keyboard, with CPUs about 100,000 times faster (or more?), you'd think we would have better input devices, but nope...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on November 20, 2010, 04:13 PM
I just imagine me and my work buddies doing our programming with a speech interface instead of the keyboard... :D
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on December 06, 2010, 10:35 AM
Finally got my Desire HD last Friday. So far so good. I also had a chance to compare it to a friend's Samsung Galaxy S that has a Super AMOLED screen. I have to admit that the Samsung screen looks quite a bit nicer (well, more vibrant at least). The Desire HD's screen still looks very good though, if you don't have a direct comparison. And the screen is huge! The phone's form factor is quite nice actually, despite the large screen. Although one handed operation is not very easy.

I very much like Android, for the short experience I have with it. Although I see the problem of putting all eggs into one basket the experience of only having to enter one email address and one password and having all of your contacts, calendar, news feeds (and probably more) is amazing. No other configuration required.

I also like HTC's interface (Sense) and am experimenting with Apps and Widgets now. I'll certainly go and find the respective thread on donationcoder to present my favourites once I've used them a bit more :)
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on December 06, 2010, 11:01 AM
Hi phitsc,

I've got an HTC 7 Surround and have the same feelings about the screen. I doubt I'll spend much of the duration of my contract (35 months, now) comparing its screen to that of iPhone and/or Galaxy S so will be blissfully ignorant of what I am missing 99-100% of the time! The screen on this thing is stunning!
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: tsaint on December 21, 2010, 04:05 PM
It's too bad that Swype isn't available. Oh well.

Thanks for the SlideIt link. I've downloaded the demo and will give that a spin.

A beta Swype is available for download/install now if you're interested. http://beta.swype.com/
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: Darwin on December 21, 2010, 06:11 PM
I now own an iPod Touch 4 32GB and have compared my HTC Surround to it directly. I've done the same comparison with a Samsung Galaxy S using the live demo in a store and I really can't see enough difference to get worked up about it. I'm very happy with what I've got  :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Getting an HTC Desire HD -- Android Phone
Post by: phitsc on December 22, 2010, 04:37 AM
I'm using Swiftkey (http://www.swiftkey.net/) and quite like it so far.