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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: zridling on October 11, 2010, 01:44 PM
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[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] (http://www.libreoffice.org)
Since Oracle acquired Sun, it's shown aggressive hostility toward open source software by flooding the software landscape with patent lawsuits. With the acquisition of Sun came its more overt corporate control of OpenOffice. Not content to have a corporation control such a large open source project, the Document Foundation (http://www.documentfoundation.org/) has forked OpenOffice into LibreOffice (http://www.libreoffice.org), which is "a better match to the values of our contributors, users, and supporters, and will enable a more effective, efficient, transparent, and inclusive Community." Among other things, their first goal is to clean the kludge in the code and improve its auto-update feature.
Linux distros are already updating their repositories with the LibreOffice beta, and it's only a matter of time before OpenOffice dies a well-deserved death.
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I haven't been following OpenOffice much, but I recently read about http://go-oo.org/ here on DC and was wondering if someone could briefly explain the fundamental differences between Go-OO and LibreOffice.
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Name and branding. That's all. All the patches Go-oo integrates are being merged into LibreOffice, so it's kind of a spiritual successor, with much stronger backing this time, or so I hope.
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The Document Foundation raised the 50,000 Euros needed to incorporate in Germany in only eight days. Looks like they're off to a great start and here to stay. Woohoo!
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/220739/libreoffice_software_is_here_to_stay.html
:-*
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Oracle finally gives up (http://www.osnews.com/story/24808/Oracle_Calls_It_a_Day_Gives_OpenOffice_to_Apache_Foundation)
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Some play.
Some lose.
And some just fold their cards and go home. 8)
Hard to feel sorry for them since they were the ones who precipitated the whole situation by trying to get heavy with everybody. Maybe Oracle will finally learn a hard truth: the world is a complex place. You don't get to make up all the rules of the game just because you happen to own the bat and the ball.
Even Microsoft knows that by now.
:)
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Even Microsoft knows that by now.
:)
-40hz
In the early days, when there was real competition among word processing and spreadsheet programs, Microsoft Word and Excel were not copy protected, whereas the market leaders, WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 were.
Once Microsoft had demolished the competition, it added copy protection to its office software.
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Oracle finally gives up (http://www.osnews.com/story/24808/Oracle_Calls_It_a_Day_Gives_OpenOffice_to_Apache_Foundation)
-Lashiec
For the sake of the license, that's good news, especially for IBM. But for now, OpenOffice died the minute LibreOffice released its first update after incorporating. Now if they will just work on making it easier to save a file more accurately to ePUB format, I'll be ecstatic.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-gives-openoffice-to-apache/9035
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Once Microsoft had demolished the competition, it added copy protection to its office software.
-xtabber
Can't really fault them for that. The casual theft of Office and Windows was completely out of control for about 20 years. Even normally honorable companies and organizations were pirating copies like there was no tomorrow because nothing was stopping them from doing it. It almost became a habit after a while.
I'm not a Microsoft apologist, but they do have a business to run. And activation and "genuine advantage" aren't too burdensome the way they've implemented it. I only know of one person that had a legitimate tech issue with it. And a simple phone call got it cleared up in less than fifteen minutes. Everybody else I've run into that had problems was playing licensing games with Microsoft.
:)
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Note: It comes as as a shock to most people when they discover that the less expensive OEM copy of Windows and/or Office (which came pre-installed on the brand new PC they bought) is usually licensed for use on that specific PC only, and is not transferable to a different machine. Even if the machine it was originally installed on died. It's up to the PC manufacturer how best to cover you if that happens. If you're out of warranty, you're likely out of luck.
It pays to read the EULAs. (You did read them didn't you? :-\ )
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Once Microsoft had demolished the competition, it added copy protection to its office software.
-xtabber
Can't really fault them for that. The casual theft of Office and Windows was completely out of control for about 20 years. Even normally honorable companies and organizations were pirating copies like there was no tomorrow because nothing was stopping them from doing it. It almost became a habit after a while.
I'm not a Microsoft apologist, but they do have a business to run. And activation and "genuine advantage" aren't too burdensome the way they've implemented it. I only know of one person that had a legitimate tech issue with it. And a simple phone call got it cleared up in less than fifteen minutes. Everybody else I've run into that had problems was playing licensing games with Microsoft.
:)
-40hz
I think you missed the point. Microsoft could afford to allow piracy 20 years ago because Word and Excel were not their main source of revenue and were not major players in the office market. They winked at unlicensed users because they knew that would get them a huge share of the market among those who could or would not pay for WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3 or other programs that typically cost $300 and up per user at the time.
Microsoft later bundled free or very low cost copies of Office with computers running Windows 3.1 and 95, which further undercut the comptetion. The approach was purely predatory, and it was successful. Microsoft Office became the single standard in the workplace, after which they were able to raise prices and institute draconian anti-piracy measures, both techonolgical and legal, to preserve their position.
Microsoft continues to provide free or very low cost legal copies of Office software to students and academics, not out of generosity or social conscience, but because they know that keeps new workers entering the job market from bringing other, lower cost alternatives into the corporate workplace.
You are right, of course, that they have a business to run, and while bare-knuckled, these practices were not necessarily abusive, unlike some of their others (e.g., IE vs. Netscape). But it does illustrate the importance of preserving a competitive marketplace in software, as in any other product.
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I'm not a Microsoft apologist, but they do have a business to run. And activation and "genuine advantage" aren't too burdensome the way they've implemented it.-40hz
Well... That's easy to say when your sitting there with an MSDN subscription and a spread sheet full of keys (which we both have iirc) for anything you might want/need to play with. But the view is not quite as clear cut for everybody. Mind you I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out a teency bit of a glass house factor to the position on something we're sort of insulated from.
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I think you missed the point. Microsoft could afford to allow piracy 20 years ago because Word and Excel were not their main source of revenue and were not major players in the office market. They winked at unlicensed users because they knew that would get them a huge share of the market among those who could or would not pay for WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3 or other programs that typically cost $300 and up per user at the time.
-xtabber
Maybe. But having worked as a part of a Fortune 5 (not 500) company team that hammered out one of the first corporate site license deals ever made with Microsoft back in the 80s, saying that Redmond "winked" at bootlegging Office (or was not viewing it as an important part of their revenue stream and overall sales strategy) does not coincide with what we learned about Microsoft, either through official or unofficial channels. Quite the contrary in fact. They were absolutely incensed about it. But there was a looming antitrust issue confronting them, and they decided to let it go until the issue with the Feds got resolved. IBM did the same thing with people cloning its PC design. At the time, it wasn't considered an issue they wanted to bring to a head - for exactly the same reason.
I'm not a Microsoft apologist, but they do have a business to run. And activation and "genuine advantage" aren't too burdensome the way they've implemented it.-40hz
Well... That's easy to say when your sitting there with an MSDN subscription and a spread sheet full of keys (which we both have iirc) for anything you might want/need to play with. But the view is not quite as clear cut for everybody. Mind you I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out a teency bit of a glass house factor to the position on something we're sort of insulated from.
-Stoic Joker
I have a little trouble with this new 'grass roots socialism' I'm starting to see, where anytime somebody wants something they can't afford brings up accusations of greed and "not playing fair." One reason I have a problem with that is because there are viable alternatives to Windows and Office which are available for free.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
And yes it is true that I have a Partner Action Pack subscription (not the MSDN - because I couldn't afford that one - and it's not bloody fair either! :P) which I use in my business. But it's primarily there to stay up on the Microsoft products we provide support for.
For home and personal use, I'm virtually 100% Linux/FOSS these days. 8)
I'd love to migrate all our internal business systems over to Linux. But I won't for the simple reason it forces us to use Microsoft's technology on a day-to-day basis. If you want to support something it's best you be an actual user in order to not lose sight of your client's perspective. I think the expression "Eat your own dog food" is what the team that developed Windows NT called it.
Regarding activation and WGA, I'll stand by my contention it's not too burdensome. One click and an Internet connection is all it takes. If something screams at you, a call to Microsoft's toll-free number will get it straightened out very quickly and you're off and running. I've never known anybody that had a problem with the way Microsoft handles those calls. Especially since they almost always give the caller the benefit of the doubt, even if they're suspicious. I have heard anecdotal evidence to the contrary. But neither I nor my clients have ever experienced any problems.
Going back to my earlier note, the most common problem is people attempting to migrate a PC manufacturer's OEM copy of Office over to a new PC they bought. Usually they order a new machine and just figure they can use their old copy on that. Unfortunately, the standard OEM EULA specifically says it doesn't allow that.
One of the reasons why those "cheap copies of Office" are so cheap is because they're pegged to the machine they came with. But even then, most times if it's a current Office release, and it's being installed on the same make of PC, it will go on and authenticate without any problems.
Dunno. It still doesn't seem like such a big deal to me :)
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Or me, but like I said, we're used to it (and or have/know alternatives). Let me phrase this a bit differently.
You know that call you get from a client now and then, they're in a cold sweat, panic in their voice, 'cause -even if they are completely innocent- they're worried about what the MS guy will think when/if they call? These are the same people that would peak nervously out the window for hours after getting an Illegal Operation error in the Win9x days.
^^^Those People^^^ think it's annoying to have the shit scared out of them... :D
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^Ok, I see your point, and I'll concede it can be a genuine problem for some people. ;D
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Don't forget that probably half the (small) businesses on the planet using MS Office are still using v.2003< or earlier. For some, you'd think at some point, they'd want to make a clean break and use LibreOffice (or a Web 2.0 solution). Whether they can't afford later versions or don't want the UI or OS upgrade it would require, I'm surprised it's just not considered.
Given that I regularly convert MSOffice files back and forth to LibreOffice (mostly spreadsheets), it's pretty hard to make the argument that LO garbles the format.
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Don't forget that probably half the (small) businesses on the planet using MS Office are still using v.2003< or earlier. For some, you'd think at some point, they'd want to make a clean break and use LibreOffice (or a Web 2.0 solution). Whether they can't afford later versions or don't want the UI or OS upgrade it would require, I'm surprised it's just not considered.
-zridling
Or that they don't take advantage of SoftMaker's offer for a free copy of their own very capable 2008 Office package, which is available here (http://www.softmakeroffice.com/) if they don't like LibreOffice. (There's also a free Linux version available.)
You can now download a fully functional and permanently usable version of the SoftMaker Office 2008 office suite.
SoftMaker Office is a complete and full-featured office that comes with a word processor, a spreadsheet, and a presentation-graphics program. If you like SoftMaker Office 2008 as much as hundreds of thousands of other people do, you should consider upgrading to its successor, SoftMaker Office 2010.
I actually prefer using SoftMaker's wordprocessor TextMaker over Word on older laptops or PCs without much RAM.
Can't afford Office? No need to pirate or complain about price tags. Just grab a free copy of Softmaker's Office suite and be done with it.
8) :Thmbsup:
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I actually prefer using SoftMaker's wordprocessor TextMaker over Word on older laptops or PCs without much RAM.
8) :Thmbsup:
-40hz
I prefer SoftMaker's TextMaker over Word, period. :Thmbsup: I had the free SoftMaker 2008 on an old, slow desktop running WinXP Pro, and I now have SoftMaker 2010 on my Toshiba netbook and my new, fast Dell XPS 8300 desktop. (At some point SoftMaker made me an offer I couldn't refuse and I upgraded to the 2010 version.) I've been very pleased. Admittedly, much of the time I use a text editor (UltraEdit) rather than a program like TextMaker or Word, so my needs may not be as complex as those of some people who use Word all the time, but I've found that TextMaker2010 meets my needs very well with less bulk and a lower price than Word.
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So what is Oracle's main business?
Servers and products in that line of work?
I signed up at Oracle for news and they called me, left a message to call them.
Yes they have my #, but no big deal to me.
I don't think they have what I would use, ever.
But considering they called, I suspect there is an aggressive sales force to incorporate their products as a business standard, of which I have not much to do with.
http://www.oracle.com/index.html
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Servers and products in that line of work?
-cmpm
Yes. And more recently, a bit of patent trolling. 8)
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I signed up at Oracle for news and they called me, left a message to call them.
Yes they have my #, but no big deal to me.
I don't think they have what I would use, ever.
But considering they called, I suspect there is an aggressive sales force to incorporate their products as a business standard, of which I have not much to do with.
Oracle has been doing that since the 90's
I remember getting a call from them about their oracle database products way back in the 90's just because i had created an account to download something (forget what) ...
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I think they (Oracle) exchange their sales-force on a regular basis with Quest Software (creators of TOAD, a very extensive manager for Oracle databases).
Both are very aggressive. They even used the "...or else..." sales-pitch on me when they called years ago. As I have to work with Oracle, I couldn't drop Oracle, but QUEST got some verbal abuse back and lost me forever as customer.
Hmmm...memory lane definitely has some "potholes" in it.
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Overall, it appears that LibreOffice has OpenOffice beat. However, can somebody please compare LibreOffice with SoftmakerOffice,2008? Thank you.
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LibreOffice comes default with a PDF generator/printer that is actually very good (at least for the .doc/.docx documents that I convert to PDF). It also is able to handle the new .docx/.xlsx/.pptx formats.
The portable version of LibreOffice that I am using (3.3) is not fast with booting its components, though. Part of that is the fact that it is portable and LibreOffice is 2 to 3 times bigger than SoftMaker Office 2008.
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Overall, it appears that LibreOffice has OpenOffice beat. However, can somebody please compare LibreOffice with SoftmakerOffice,2008? Thank you.
-tosim
To do a feature by feature comparison of Libre vs Softmaker would take a team and fill a book.
The easiest way to see what you think is to either download a free manual from their website, or grab a free copy of the 2008 executable and give it a try. If you like the 2008 version, you'll like the later editions as well since most of the changes have more to do with achieving closer compatibility with MS Office than they do with enhancing Softmaker's already huge feature set.
This is what it looks like:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Grab a copy of the 2008 version here (http://www.softmakeroffice.com/).
If I were to compare it, I'd see Softmaker's wordprocessor more like an earlier version of MS Word. Something like the Office XP or 2003 version. Libre is more like an 800lb gorilla that does just about everything - but has it's own distinctive look and feel. It's definitely heavier feeling than Softmaker. I'm guessing that will change as more and more of the old OpenOffice codebase gets rewritten and replaced by the Libre team. But only time will tell.
FWIW - I pretty much use Softmaker's TextMaker for all my wordprocessing these days. For spreadsheets I still use Excel because I share many of my spreadsheets with clients. So I can't risk glitches or macro/basic hassles when I send files over.
Can't speak about presentation graphics because I hate slides and overheads during presentations. So I'll only use PowerPoint or SM Presentations if there's a gun pointed at my head.
If I do need to create infographics for a talk I'm giving I'm much more likely to use standard illustration apps. I don't need the fancy tray organizers and templates in PowerPoint since I'll seldom ever need more than two or three slides no matter what. I do create handouts however. But they're outlines or notes - not a stack of bullet point charts. I'll usually just do those in a wordprocessor or outliner app.
:)
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Thanks for the info. I had already downloaded, but not installed, awhile back Softmaker Office2008. I've just finished downloading the portable version of LibreOffice. I'll wait on that too, as LibreOffice came along with my installalling Linux Mint12 on another machine, and I'd like to check it out there. As an aside, I've been using WinOffice2007 since it came out, but only use Word and Excel.
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The free office suite the community has been dreaming of for twelve years
Berlin, February 7, 2013 – The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 4.0, the free office suite the community has been dreaming of since 2001. LibreOffice 4.0 is the first release that reflects the objectives set by the community at the time of the announcement, in September 2010: a cleaner and leaner code base, an improved set of features, better interoperability, and a more diverse and inclusive ecosystem.
PLEASE NOTE that, since this is the very first version in the series, make sure to read the release notes!
LibreOffice 4.0: a community on fire
In less than 30 months, LibreOffice has grown dramatically to become the largest independent free software project focused on end user desktop productivity. TDF inclusive governance and the copyleft license have been instrumental in attracting more than 500 developers – three quarters of them being independent volunteers – capable of contributing over 50,000 commits.
The resulting code base is rather different from the original one, as several million lines of code have been added and removed, by adding new features, solving bugs and regressions, adopting state of the art C++ constructs, replacing tools, getting rid of deprecated methods and obsoleted libraries, and translating twenty five thousand lines of comments from German to English.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/-LibreOffice 4.0
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open office isn't good ,but it is free :) I use it alot of times,but sometimes I need to reinstall it to work again.I will try libreoffice and put my opinion
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I just downloaded the portable version - 4.0.0.3. I'm going to give it a shot to see if it can replace Word for me. Crossing my fingers...
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Been making an effort to use it as much as possible since last week when I grabbed Win and Nix versions. So far I haven't encountered any problems. Seems quite nice so far. It's certainly useable.
For many, it's probably better to wait for it to hit the repositories if you're running Linux. Installing the raw version might be tricky for new Nix users. (Not so much tricky as it is that you really should read the installation notes first. There's a few extra but easy steps you need to be aware of to get good desktop integration. Which is one of the details installing from your distro's repositories will handle for you.)
8)
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A good (largely positive - but not overly so) review of v4 was recently posted over at Dedoimedo.com
Read it here (http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/libreoffice-4-review.html).
LibreOffice 4 deserves around 8/10. It's a sure keeper, and I am glad to have it added to my arsenal, both on Windows and Linux. I just wish it could become a killer app, but the path thither is still long and perilous. Well, let's hope version 5 will make that a reality.
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I cant download Libreoffice. It apparently is a torrent download from their site. Claims it is a 185 MB file but only 7.79 MB is downloaded. Do I need a torrent program to get this?
Jim
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I cant download Libreoffice. It apparently is a torrent download from their site. Claims it is a 185 MB file but only 7.79 MB is downloaded. Do I need a torrent program to get this?
-J-Mac
I think you might be clicking on the wrong link -- confusingly, the links for the installer and for the torrent are very close:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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I cant download Libreoffice. It apparently is a torrent download from their site. Claims it is a 185 MB file but only 7.79 MB is downloaded. Do I need a torrent program to get this?
-J-Mac
I think you might be clicking on the wrong link -- confusingly, the links for the installer and for the torrent are very close:
-Jibz
I've been confused by this at least twice :-[
Might be on purpose? - they save bandwidth when people download with a torrent client.
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OK then I downloaded the correct file, the top link. It comes down as an MSI file but only 79.9 MB. Can't seem to get the entire file to download. Weird!
Thank you.
Jim
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OK then I downloaded the correct file, the top link. It comes down as an MSI file but only 79.9 MB. Can't seem to get the entire file to download. Weird!-J-Mac
If your browser is bugging out or your internet connection is unstable, downloading with a torrent client might be a good idea - it's more resilient against errors, and where you often need to restart downloads from the beginning, torrent clients only have to restart a single failed chunks.
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OK then I downloaded the correct file, the top link. It comes down as an MSI file but only 79.9 MB. Can't seem to get the entire file to download. Weird!-J-Mac
Clicking the link seems to get me a file that (says it) is 185MB.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Try clearing your cache, or just torrent it. (c:
EDIT: It finished and Windows reports it is 184MB.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
MD5: 81d1a5fa5aa51de1cf6c43f8ed86884c
SHA-1 [160]: 70f16f9d314d9c19387d1c1427ab4cff047454dc
CRC32: 1a5a44d5
SizeHash-32: 0b89b000
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OK then I downloaded the correct file, the top link. It comes down as an MSI file but only 79.9 MB. Can't seem to get the entire file to download.-J-Mac
You can try grabbing it from my server if you'd like: www.skwire.net/~tmp/LibreOffice_4.0.2_Win_x86.msi (http://www.skwire.net/~tmp/LibreOffice_4.0.2_Win_x86.msi)
MD5 of the file: 81d1a5fa5aa51de1cf6c43f8ed86884c
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EDIT: It finished and Windows reports it is 184MB.-Deozaan
Round-nearest vs. truncate-to-zero? :-)
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I was confused by that kind of thing a few times too. I eventually got a copy from somewhere, maybe CNet (after unchecking all the opt-out stuff!)
I won't go into the "deliberateness" of the link placement, just that I agree it's bad design. You're supposed to have big easy buttons describing options, not text that really seems to lead you into the torrent when in fact there is a second link.
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I eventually got a copy from somewhere
-TaoPhoenix
Best bets for that are Ninite.com and Filehippo.com :Thmbsup:
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Next step: "Goodbye LibreOffice, hello SoftMaker Office". Once it has .ods support...!
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Next step: "Goodbye LibreOffice, hello SoftMaker Office". Once it has .ods support...!
-Tuxman
LibreOffice might suck a bit, but it's gratis - that matters to a lot of people.
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Using pen & paper does not even cost energy fee. Oh, right - they are lazy. Lazyness is not a good decision maker...
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/me sighs and counts to ten.
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@f0dder - some things are a waste of time to get into. Some individuals make virtually everything a waste of time to get into with them. ;)
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Yup. Only one of the reasons why I don't talk too much.
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@f0dder - see what I mean? Now excuse me. Gotta go collect on a bet I just made a minute ago. ;D
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"Why 'one ghost driver'? I see so many of them...!"
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LibreOffice 4.0.1 portable (which can also be run off your hard drive, just not installed in Program Files), comes in at full download at 99,797 Kb.
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OpenOffice is horrible when it comes to interoperability with MS Office, LibreOffice not much better, both are hungry for resources and slow.
Check out SoftMaker FreeOffice which shows a very good compatibilty to MSO, further, it installs quicker, takes up less hard drive space, and opens faster than the other ones mentioned.
Give it a try, it's free:
freeoffice.com
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Worst spammer ever seen.
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I second the recommendation for SoftMaker. Several years ago, I began using what I think may now be FreeOffice (it was an earlier version of SoftMaker Office). I liked it a lot, but I eventually decided to upgrade to the newer, commercial version for two reasons: it covered .docx format, and because I already had SoftMaker on my computer, I was eligible for the upgrade price. For a small fraction of what I would have to pay for Microsoft Office, I have a program that meets my needs just as well. I've experienced no compatibility problems with MS Office. (I should mention that I use TextMaker more than the other parts of the SoftMaker suite.)
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Softmaker has one of the worst GUIs I have ever seen on Linux IMHO, and that is saying a lot. Not about my opinion, but... yeah. Horrid. LibreOffice has come a LONG way since it's roots in StarOffice, and it doesn't burn my eyeballs.
Maybe SM is a decent suite at heart, but I just couldn't get past the initial shock.
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^IMHO a wordprocessor is a wordprocessor is a wordprocessor. As is a spreadsheet.
For me, it doesn't have to look pretty or be a masterpiece of GUI design as long as it's reliable and works without any bad surprises. Truth is, virtually any WP GUI could be improved dramatically if you just cut back on the feature set. Most of the interface nightmares are caused by feature bloat which is done in order to justify the prices being charged for almost worthless and unnecessary upgrades.
8)
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For me, it doesn't have to look pretty or be a masterpiece of GUI design as long as it's reliable and works without any bad surprises.-40Hz
For the most part, I agree, though software with a well-laid out GUI (minimal or no) goes a long way towards productivity and usability, which immediately registers it in my mind as a superior product. On the flip side, no matter how nice the GUI, prettiness cannot hide missing functionality or outright flaws for long.
The Softmaker Office GUI is just downright buggy. As in, actual bugs in how it behaves, which not only affects my perception, but restricts how I might use it. I just re-installed it to remind myself of what was wrong and yep, it's still bad.
A few items to mention, in "TextMaker":
All the toolbars and flat areas are that weird gray color brilliantly showcased by default in most of the *step window managers and the TCL ToolKit. Blah. Bleah.
- Is that a highlighted toolbar item? Or playing peekaboo?
When I mouse over icons on the toolbar, it shows the top of a square shape popping up behind the toolbar. Weird.
- Now you see it, now you don't
When I mouse over the Paragraph Style drop-down, the arrow and 3-D parts of the widget simply go away, and can be brought back if I Minimize/Maximize the window (this only happens on the Paragraph Style dropdown).
OK, those were cosmetic, now we get to where it borders on unusable.
When I actually click on a dropdown (Paragraph Style, Font, Font Size), a blank menu drops down. Blank. White. When I move the mouse down the menu (that isn't there), menu items show up highlighted under the mouse pointer. If I click on one, the menu goes away as expected, but my selection doesn't show in the box. If I highlight it, it's there, but it flashes until I remove the mouse and it's back to nothing.
Admittedly, those are UI bugs, they can be worked around, though I didn't mention them all. But why should I have to put up with something that is difficult to use, may have even deeper bugs, and is closed-source when there is a better alternative?
Maybe the Windows version is the bee's pants, but it's just not doing it for me here in Tux-land. :(
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I agree with CoolCat26: FreeOffice is a great free office suite and in many points better than LibreOffice, but still relatively unknown, thanks for the recommendation. Especially it's SoftMaker filters for Microsoft Office formats are fantastic.
@Edvard: Which Linux distribution do you use? Maybe there might be issues with some, but I use Debian and everything works and looks fine. Btw., try to change some settings, maybe that helps:
tools > options > appearance > dialog style
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I've used SoftMaker as well, and it's quite good.
The only problem I had with it was that the user interface is not available in as many languages as the other suites -- for instance there is no Danish translation. That's okay for someone like me who doesn't really care if the user interface is localized as long as the dictionary is, but I can't really recommend it to friends and family who are used to Office in Danish.
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@Edvard: Which Linux distribution do you use? Maybe there might be issues with some, but I use Debian and everything works and looks fine. Btw., try to change some settings, maybe that helps:
-Debian
+1. I have it running on Debian plus a few Debian derivatives and I'm not running into any of those interface or display issues. Sounds like you're having a video driver or compositor issue.
:)
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Overall, it appears that LibreOffice has OpenOffice beat. However, can somebody please compare LibreOffice with SoftmakerOffice,2008? Thank you.
-tosim
Well, first of all apparently SoftmakerOffice,2008 is obsolete. They have a new version out. You'll be redirected to it.
I'll poke around and try to do a small comparison. I've been using Open/Libre office off and on for a fair while now, mostly with basic documents. Somehow, (what is now) LibreOffice has this strange feel to it, compared to Excel. Its sort of like the feel when someone with English as a Second Language doesn't have the vernacular down. (Skipping the humor examples!) So you get the point, but only after your brain throws a "syntax caution" note in your head.
I'm a bit of a fan of simple programs for simple uses, so it will be interesting to see what SoftMaker looks like. In the game of Find a Replacement for Excel, LibreOffice has been the only serious contender non-web for a while now. (I tried Gnumeric some time back, but I ran into problems.)
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apparently SoftmakerOffice,2008 is obsolete. They have a new version out.
-TaoPhoenix
I think it's more correct to say it's an older version rather than obsolete when it comes to Linux. Most Linux apps don't much care which kernal or flavor of GNU/Linux they run under. At least not from my experience.
;D
About the only minor complaint I have is that Softmaker's Linux installer places shortcuts on the desktop like a Windows installer often will. And to add insult, it does so without asking. A definite platform faux pas on Softmaker's part AFAIC. Especially since most Linux users soon discover there are far better ways to keep their favorite apps readily at hand. As a result, very few ever develop the Windows habit of keeping program shortcuts on their desktops.
This is hardly a show stopper issue. But I still find it annoying. :-\
In the game of Find a Replacement for Excel, LibreOffice has been the only serious contender non-web for a while now. (I tried Gnumeric some time back, but I ran into problems.)
-TaoPhoenix
Agree. As will many if not most Excel users who have tried.
Excel is probably the single best guarantee I'll always need to keep at least one Windows machine (real or virtual) somewhere in my house.
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As of 2 minutes ago Softmaker Office 2008 was still available HERE (http://www.mydigitallife.info/softmaker-office-2008-free-full-version-download-with-genuine-license-key/).
Links for download and registration both working.
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@pilgrim: Yes, it's still available, but it makes more sense to use FreeOffice, because it's import and export filters are new and better. E.g. you can't open docx, xlsx, and pptx files with SMO 2008, but that's no problem with FreeOffice. You find all features and the download link here:
freeoffice.com
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Debian,
Yes I found that a couple of days ago after reading this thread.
I gave up on Open Office around the time it moved to Oracle.
I have Softmaker Office 2008 on my Netbook and I might replace it with FreeOffice.
On my new computer I installed a copy of Word 2002 because I still have a lot of .odt files.
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Softmaker Office works fine with .odt files.
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Now you've got me wondering?
It was some time ago now but I remember I had issues with format not being retained.
I'll give FreeOffice a try in place of 2008 and if it will do what I want I'll consider putting it on the PC as well.
Not that it's an issue but including all the extras the Word installation is around 250 MB in total.
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I tried SoftMaker 2010, it read my tested .odt files quite well.
Only .ods failed...
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My problem with LibreOffice is how resource intensive it is (and OpenOffice before it). A computer tech installled it on an old notebook my employer has provided for employee use - it's running an anaemic Intel duo-core chip, Vista 32-bit, and "rocking" 2GB RAM. LibreOffice was a pig to open and significantly slowed the machine when running. I had an unused Office 2013 license and installed it and it's much more manageable - though still not a dream to use... That said, I have a license for SoftMaker Office 2012 that I'm not using - maybe I should install that and uninstall MS Office. SM Office should be even lighter on resources on that seutup and I don't care too much about the license whereas an Office 2013 license is hard to walk away from ;D
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My problem with LibreOffice is how resource intensive it is (and OpenOffice before it). -Darwin
Open with a 3-sheet spreadsheet open, LibreOffice is using 128k of memory on my openSUSE Linux machine. I don't know what it would do on a Windows machine, which I assume you're using?
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apparently SoftmakerOffice,2008 is obsolete. They have a new version out.
-TaoPhoenix
I think it's more correct to say it's an older version rather than obsolete when it comes to Linux. Most Linux apps don't much care which kernal or flavor of GNU/Linux they run under. At least not from my experience.
;D
-40hz
Heh well 40hz, this is like my joke about not using the language the same way with people...
The original download link was:
http://www.softmakeroffice.com/
But it has a small page on it that says:
SoftMaker Office 2008 for Windows and Linux
SoftMaker Office 2008 is no longer offered as a free download.
But don't worry! We have a successor: SoftMaker FreeOffice for Windows and Linux.
Download SoftMaker FreeOffice
http://www.freeoffice.com/en/
So what part of having a successor doesn't make the first one obsolete?
I'm confused! Maybe I'm stuck on the difference between older versions and obsolete!?
:)
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LibO 4.0 has a much better resource usage than 3.x, though.
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Heh well 40hz, this is like my joke about not using the language the same way with people...
-TaoPhoenix
Oh! It wasn't meant as a knock - so I hope you weren't offended. :tellme:
What I was trying to say is: what does "obsolete" mean when it comes to something that's as mature a product as a worprocessing app? If it does text editing - and doesn't crash - it can't possibly be obsolete. :D
This is all just part of my little rebellion against Microsoft (and all the others) who try to sell endless cycles of feature bloat as "new" versions when it comes to their office suites. Or who are constantly changing their file headers and formats for no real reason other than to make them incompatible with their competitor's products. :-\
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I agree with CoolCat26: FreeOffice is a great free office suite and in many points better than LibreOffice, but still relatively unknown, thanks for the recommendation. Especially it's SoftMaker filters for Microsoft Office formats are fantastic.
@Edvard: Which Linux distribution do you use? Maybe there might be issues with some, but I use Debian and everything works and looks fine. Btw., try to change some settings, maybe that helps:
tools > options > appearance > dialog style
-Debian
For the record, I'm running Debian "Wheezy" 64-bit with Xfce 4.8. Changing appearance helped some (no more blank menus), but didn't fix everything. Overall, these issues just make it 'feel' sketchy and amateurish.
+1. I have it running on Debian plus a few Debian derivatives and I'm not running into any of those interface or display issues. Sounds like you're having a video driver or compositor issue.
:)
-40hz
I am running the normal radeon driver, not the accelerated one (doesn't install on my system, never has), and no compositor. Everything else runs great. Only this one office suite is having these issues.
...
About the only minor complaint I have is that Softmaker's Linux installer places shortcuts on the desktop like a Windows installer often will. And to add insult, it does so without asking. A definite platform faux pas on Softmaker's part AFAIC. Especially since most Linux users soon discover there are far better ways to keep their favorite apps readily at hand. As a result, very few ever develop the Windows habit of keeping program shortcuts on their desktops.
This is hardly a show stopper issue. But I still find it annoying. :-\-40hz
+1. Noticed that too. >_<
Like I said before, SM Office may actually be great software, but I can't use it without distraction from the GUI, which is a big turn-off. Maybe it IS just my system, and it's rebelling against closed-source software ;D
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My problem with LibreOffice is how resource intensive it is (and OpenOffice before it). A computer tech installled it on an old notebook my employer has provided for employee use - it's running an anaemic Intel duo-core chip, Vista 32-bit, and "rocking" 2GB RAM. LibreOffice was a pig to open and significantly slowed the machine when running.
-Darwin
Darwin, I am with you. I just installed LibreOffice 4 on a fresh install of Win XP. Its an older machine with 1 gig of RAM and a older Celeron processor like 1.8. Before Libreoffice, it was zipping along pretty good with not too many lags. Now its pretty much crawling. :(
I may have to try the portable version or a different alternative.
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cpu was Celeron 2.4
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@techidave - if you're on Windows XP, give this (http://www.nativewindsofmontana.com/software/tpdfplus.html) free wordprocessing gem a try. Light on it's feet, resource frugal, with all the extras you'll likely need. Plus no bloat!
It's still my favorite "full feature" WP for Windows since it feels more like Word 2000/2003 to me - and IMO that iteration was where Microsoft should have left it. It's also pretty much what I use on most of my Win laptops. (Actually, I use it's bigger brother, their "gold" paid version because I wanted native support for odt and docx files. For around $30 I'm happy to pay to help support these guys.)
:Thmbsup:
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i normally use AbiWord as it is light and fast. not to mention, its free! But this time around, I am wanting a spreadsheet and presentation program. This computer was donated to these people and they dont have alot of money to purchase software with. So I am trying the free stuff.
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^Hear ya! I'm helping out people and organizations in the same boat. (Probably why I'm broke so often too thanks to all the pro bono and gratis work I do. ;D) But for spreadsheets and presentations I personally think (having tried as many alternatives as I could find) that Libre and Softmaker's products are about as good as the alternatives get right now.
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I replaced the default icon on the desktop with the individual icons for Writer, etc. and noticed some speedup.
Then I found this tip for speeding up LibreOffice and noticed a 10 second faster opening of the program. Tip (http://www.codechewing.com/library/speed-up-libreoffice-load-time/)
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My problem with LibreOffice is how resource intensive it is (and OpenOffice before it). -Darwin
Open with a 3-sheet spreadsheet open, LibreOffice is using 128k of memory on my openSUSE Linux machine. I don't know what it would do on a Windows machine, which I assume you're using?
-zridling
I seriously doubt you're looking at the correct memory stats. It's around 31 megs for LibreOffice calc on my Mint install, just-launched with three empty sheets.
Besides, it's not just about memory usage, the suite is a major CPU pig. It's slightly sluggish even on my i7-3770 with 16 gigs of ram - but try using it on a pmmx-200 with 64 megabytes. Office2000 on that hardware flies.
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The problem with Libre is that it basically loads as a suite. So there's a base memory footprint of about 28 megs for the main bin which always gets loaded - plus an additional 7 to 16 megs for each app in the suite you open. It's an approach that has provoked much debate over the years.
Back when machines were slower there might have been some rationale for loading all the common code needed by the suite up front to save time when opening and closing apps. But with the speed of today's systems I don't think that justification (if it is still the justification) makes sense any more.
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I replaced the default icon on the desktop with the individual icons for Writer, etc. and noticed some speedup.
Then I found this tip for speeding up LibreOffice and noticed a 10 second faster opening of the program. Tip (http://www.codechewing.com/library/speed-up-libreoffice-load-time/)
-techidave
This tip DOES look pretty good. I did most of it except the Quickstarter part, and it does seem faster! :Thmbsup:
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I replaced Softmaker Office 2008 with FreeOffice on my Netbook yesterday and found that I cannot open the help file from within the program.
The window opens for it but it's empty, if I click on the X to close it the entire program closes.
If I go to the installation folder and double click on the chm file it opens as it should although it is not showing images, just boxes with a red cross.
I re-registered the ocx and tried the repair option in the installer, neither made any difference.