Looks like here:
http://blog.malwarebytes.org/intelligence/2012/08/passing-the-bitcoin/-Renegade (September 30, 2012, 11:50 PM)
Right. I just didn't think anyone would want it.-Arizona Hot (October 01, 2012, 10:11 AM)
At least with Bitcoin, there's no inflation and no government can manipulate its value.-zridling (October 01, 2012, 11:14 PM)
Combine the end goal of the BitCoin malware with the credit card scanning technology and BitInstant debit cards may very well become targets for literal “walk-by” card scans to steal account information and virtual money.
Is it immoral to stop someone from stealing from you?Is the financing of public healthcare, educational system and infrastructure "stealing"? :-)-Renegade (October 02, 2012, 12:00 AM)
But it sure does seem like a handy way to pay for drugs, and a lovely thing if you're intending to steal other people's coins and/or whitewashing.-f0dder (October 02, 2012, 06:45 AM)
Is it immoral to stop someone from stealing from you?Is the financing of public healthcare, educational system and infrastructure "stealing"? :-)-Renegade (October 02, 2012, 12:00 AM)-f0dder (October 02, 2012, 06:45 AM)
The taxes in Denmark are a wee bit high, and I wish the whole system could be reformed - and on top of that I definitely don't like the greedy immoral bastards from the banks (and the rest of the financial sector). I don't think BitCoin is a good (part of) a solution - the combination of a global fixed maximum number of coins with the possibility of coins getting lost forever, and basing its entire safety in a cryptographic method that hasn't been super well peer reviewed and definitely hasn't stood the test of time? No thanks.
But it sure does seem like a handy way to pay for drugs, and a lovely thing if you're intending to steal other people's coins and/or whitewashing.-f0dder (October 02, 2012, 06:45 AM)
Perhaps you don't want to be tracked for how much technology you buy - computers, HDDs, cards, memory? Out of cash and out of pron?-Renegade (October 02, 2012, 08:07 AM)
Perhaps you don't want to be tracked for how much technology you buy - computers, HDDs, cards, memory? Out of cash and out of pron?-Renegade (October 02, 2012, 08:07 AM)
Especially the pron!-Arizona Hot (October 02, 2012, 11:59 AM)
I own them, but do I use them? Nope :)-urlwolf (October 02, 2012, 06:03 PM)
They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)
Or privately owned central banks, which are the largest manipulators. I only wish that it were governments doing it...-Renegade (October 02, 2012, 12:00 AM)
It looks pretty.They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)It's just a gimmick to sell copper at inflated prices. That's all. Copper rounds are insanely overpriced.-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)-Renegade (October 04, 2012, 12:16 PM)
It looks pretty.They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)It's just a gimmick to sell copper at inflated prices. That's all. Copper rounds are insanely overpriced.-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)-Renegade (October 04, 2012, 12:16 PM)-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 02:33 PM)
They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)
I'm with f0dder ...(damn the avoirdupois value)... Where can we go and get screwed out of $2 for one of these cool little trinkets. :D-Stoic Joker (October 04, 2012, 03:12 PM)
I'd love one of those - or two, frame them showing both sides.
I'll repeat: "where's the link?" (apparently there's been a few versions already released but I couldnt find these ones)-tomos (October 04, 2012, 03:33 PM)
s an activist site accepting donations, but still, it's 1 more. Out of the blue. (I really wasn't looking for anything Bitcoin related, but noticed it, and thought of this thread.)Activist? You know what that's a synonym for, right? Yep, you're right (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorist?s=t)! ( ;) )-Renegade (October 05, 2012, 09:32 AM)
Activist? You know what that's a synonym for, right? Yep, you're right (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorist?s=t)! ( ;) )-f0dder (October 05, 2012, 09:35 AM)
They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)
They look wicked cool - what's the link? I might get one even though I'm skeptic wrt. the whole scheme :-)-f0dder (October 04, 2012, 11:57 AM)
If they are selling the coins, they should take Bitcoins to pay for them unless they are hypocrites.-Arizona Hot (October 07, 2012, 03:33 PM)
It's kind of ironic when you think about it. Metals are the best (portable/non-land) store of wealth around, and Bitcoins are digital.-Renegade (October 07, 2012, 10:03 PM)
It's kind of ironic when you think about it. Metals are the best (portable/non-land) store of wealth around, and Bitcoins are digital.-Renegade (October 07, 2012, 10:03 PM)
It is. But when you think about it, metal coins are also still just as much a symbolic representation of economic value as the the digital data in a bank account. The intrinsic value of the metal in a coin is not equivalent to the economic value it represents. So in the end it's really all just symbols and tokens, no matter what the currency is fabricated out of...
Money is more an idea than it is a thing. Possibly it's the closest thing to "pure information" the human race has ever created representative objects for.-40hz (October 08, 2012, 01:54 AM)
Precious metals only have an intrinsic value within a system too. They're not directly consumable. They need to be refined, assayed, and agreed upon by whomever. They need both a market and an exchange before they become valued. So I'd like suggest they don't have much 'intrinsic' value outside of the society that assigns such value to them. And once you get outside a technological society, the far more common metals and alloys (iron and steel) are much more valuable (i.e. useful and usable) than the more precious variety which are used in less advanced societies primarily for decoration - if they are used at all.
Look at the early days of the Russian Revolution. Nobles were fleeing and bartering gold, jewels, and other precious objects for basic commodities such as food - and half the time having their offers refused. "You can't eat gold" as the saying goes.-40hz (October 08, 2012, 06:24 AM)
"You can't eat gold" as the saying goes.O'Rlly? (http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/06/07/2007/200088/gold-leaf-saffron-risotto-by-gualtiero-marchesi.htm) - *giggle*-40hz (October 08, 2012, 06:24 AM)
Precious metals only have an intrinsic value within a system too. They're not directly consumable. They need to be refined, assayed, and agreed upon by whomever. They need both a market and an exchange before they become valued. So I'd like suggest they don't have much 'intrinsic' value outside of the society that assigns such value to them. And once you get outside a technological society, the far more common metals and alloys (iron and steel) are much more valuable (i.e. useful and usable) than the more precious variety which are used in less advanced societies primarily for decoration - if they are used at all.-40hz (October 08, 2012, 06:24 AM)
As of 2012, it costs the U.S. Mint 2.41 cents to make a cent because of the cost of materials and production.[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_%28United_States_coin%29
^ :D you can get drunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwasser) on gold too, cant you? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldschl%C3%A4ger)
_______________________________Precious metals only have an intrinsic value within a system too. They're not directly consumable. They need to be refined, assayed, and agreed upon by whomever. They need both a market and an exchange before they become valued. So I'd like suggest they don't have much 'intrinsic' value outside of the society that assigns such value to them. And once you get outside a technological society, the far more common metals and alloys (iron and steel) are much more valuable (i.e. useful and usable) than the more precious variety which are used in less advanced societies primarily for decoration - if they are used at all.-40hz (October 08, 2012, 06:24 AM)
I think that's pretty clear.
If precious metals were just valued for their industrial worth, I wonder what they'd be worth (probably impossible to estimate).
_______________________________
Re the metal in coins, I wonder what it actually costs to make a coins?
I wouldn't be suprised if the smaller nominations cost more than their worth - yup ;) -As of 2012, it costs the U.S. Mint 2.41 cents to make a cent because of the cost of materials and production.[4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_%28United_States_coin%29-tomos (October 08, 2012, 09:17 AM)
^ yes!
I didnt mean to be disingenious there, I should have said that too. Was literally just wondering about the cost of production.
(Obviously if higher value coins were made with valuable metals, that factor would be a relatively small percentage.)-tomos (October 08, 2012, 09:34 AM)
I'm with f0dder ...(damn the avoirdupois value)... Where can we go and get screwed out of $2 for one of these cool little trinkets. :D-Stoic Joker (October 04, 2012, 03:12 PM)
Rai stones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones), any one?-ewemoa (October 08, 2012, 02:36 AM)
Rai stones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones), any one?-ewemoa (October 08, 2012, 02:36 AM)
"In one instance, a rai being transported by canoe was accidentally dropped and sank to the sea floor. Although it was never seen again, everyone agreed that the rai must still be there, so it continued to be transacted as genuine currency.[4] What is important is that ownership of the rai is clear to everyone, not that the rai is physically transferred or even physically accessible to either party in the transfer."-TaoPhoenix (October 08, 2012, 11:08 AM)
Rai stones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones), any one?-ewemoa (October 08, 2012, 02:36 AM)
"In one instance, a rai being transported by canoe was accidentally dropped and sank to the sea floor. Although it was never seen again, everyone agreed that the rai must still be there, so it continued to be transacted as genuine currency.[4] What is important is that ownership of the rai is clear to everyone, not that the rai is physically transferred or even physically accessible to either party in the transfer."-TaoPhoenix (October 08, 2012, 11:08 AM)
So was that the first Rai of Hope?-Stoic Joker (October 08, 2012, 11:26 AM)
Rai stones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones), any one?-ewemoa (October 08, 2012, 02:36 AM)
"In one instance, a rai being transported by canoe was accidentally dropped and sank to the sea floor. Although it was never seen again, everyone agreed that the rai must still be there, so it continued to be transacted as genuine currency.[4] What is important is that ownership of the rai is clear to everyone, not that the rai is physically transferred or even physically accessible to either party in the transfer."-TaoPhoenix (October 08, 2012, 11:08 AM)
So was that the first Rai of Hope?-Stoic Joker (October 08, 2012, 11:26 AM)
The previous link for Rai stones results in an error. This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones) will take you to the Wikipedia page-Shades (October 08, 2012, 05:14 PM)
The previous link for Rai stones results in an error. This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones) will take you to the Wikipedia page-Shades (October 08, 2012, 05:14 PM)
I went through what I thought were all of the Wikipedia links in question and they all worked for me...May be I missed one?-ewemoa (October 08, 2012, 05:53 PM)
The European Central Bank (ECB) recently issued a report on digital currencies. The report largely revolves around Bitcoins and Linden Dollars, and provides a review of the currencies from the perspective of central bankers. Unsurprisingly, they found the currencies to pose “risks” that potentially require future “regulation.”
I'd love one of those - or two, frame them showing both sides.
I'll repeat: "where's the link?" (apparently there's been a few versions already released but I couldnt find these ones)-tomos (October 04, 2012, 03:33 PM)
You can get them all over the place. Here are a few links:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=bitcoin+copper+round
The mint:
http://mjbmonetarymetals.co.uk/copper.html
http://copperrounds.org/?s=1+Oz+Copper+Rounds
Goes to ==> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221134928422&item=221134928422&vectorid=229466
http://www.preciousmetalhouse.com/copper-bullion/rounds/2012-copper-mjb-bitcoin-1oz-roll-of-20.html
I have not purchased from any of those places, so I can't vouch for them, but they all seem ok.-Renegade (October 05, 2012, 01:07 AM)
Anyone else want to cry?-Renegade (March 21, 2013, 11:04 PM)
^Out of curiosity - exactly where and how do you spend them? From what I've personally seen, there isn't much I'd be all that interested in I could use them for. At least so far. But I don't do much in the way of transactions I'd feel the need to stealth, so maybe I'm just not part of that demographic where 'buyer anonymity' seems to be the major selling point.
So I'm genuinely curious...just how usable for mainstream purposes are they as of right now?Anyone else want to cry?-Renegade (March 21, 2013, 11:04 PM)
Yup.:P How about the people who got their accounts cleaned out in any one of several net heists successfully perpetrated on various Bitcoin exchanges? News like this (http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/250-000-worth-bitcoins-stolen-net-heist-980871) or compilations like this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0) don't exactly give me warm fuzzies...
How bitcoin users seem to imagine bitcoin exchanges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DwC6IFi6RuU
...
@Ren - sorry. Couldn't resist. :P (Definitely have way too much free time on my hands these last two days.) ;) :) :Thmbsup:-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
^Out of curiosity - exactly where and how do you spend them?-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
From what I've personally seen, there isn't much I'd be all that interested in I could use them for.-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
At least so far. But I don't do much in the way of transactions I'd feel the need to stealth, so maybe I'm just not part of that demographic where 'buyer anonymity' seems to be the major selling point.-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
So I'm genuinely curious...just how usable for mainstream purposes are they as of right now?-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
Yup.:P How about the people who got their accounts cleaned out in any one of several net heists successfully perpetrated on various Bitcoin exchanges? News like this (http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/250-000-worth-bitcoins-stolen-net-heist-980871) or compilations like this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0) don't exactly give me warm fuzzies...-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
@Ren - sorry. Couldn't resist. :P (Definitely have way too much free time on my hands these last two days.) ;) :) :Thmbsup:-40hz (March 22, 2013, 08:32 AM)
Oh, and BTW, I made around $300 in a few hours today for doing jack all other than buying some BTC. :P-Renegade (March 22, 2013, 11:00 AM)
Now, I may lose later, but I really doubt it. All indicators say that I've got a serious upside.
Update:
See this note about the US getting grumpy and applying Money Laundering laws against Bitcoin.
You didn't think they'd allow a brand new currency, did you?!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html-TaoPhoenix (March 22, 2013, 12:42 PM)
The value of a bitcoin rose to more than $60 a unit from less than $49 on one exchange following the release of FinCen's new guidance—a move that Mr. Garzik attributed partly to a new level of certainty and legitimacy that federal recognition attaches to bitcoin transactions.
^40, I'm not sure what you mean by "the outcome is predictable".-tomos (March 22, 2013, 01:15 PM)
According to that article it's given bitcoin credibility:The value of a bitcoin rose to more than $60 a unit from less than $49 on one exchange following the release of FinCen's new guidance—a move that Mr. Garzik attributed partly to a new level of certainty and legitimacy that federal recognition attaches to bitcoin transactions.
Re spending it:
why would anyone want to spend it when the price is inflating so much -
which means of course that it's pretty useless as an active currency - but good as an investment (for the moment anyways).
But ironically, a lot of what you say about it applies to 'regular' money too (the 'circular logic').-tomos (March 22, 2013, 05:05 PM)
I'm just seriously interested in where you can use botcoins for non-geek types of products and services.-40hz (March 22, 2013, 11:38 AM)
@Ren - So ok. Next week I need to: buy some hardware for a client project, get a new set of flatwound bass strings (Daddario Chromes!), pay a few utility bills, pick up some groceries, buy another friggin' tank of gas, and pay my GF's car tax. Assuming I had $3000 in a Bitcoin account - could I use it for any of the above? That's what I mean by "for mainstream purposes."
My earlier question wasn't meant to be a challenge. I'm just seriously interested in where you can use botcoins for non-geek types of products and services. Because if I'm going to introduce an additional point of potential theft, fraud or failure into my financial life (to complement the risk I already have using my country's banking system and legal currency) then I'd like to at least be able to use it on a day to day basis. That's all.-40hz (March 22, 2013, 11:38 AM)
I think it more accurate to characterize it as giving Bitcoin the spotlight rather than credibility. The simple fact its valuation is zooming up so rapidly is a positive indication (to me at any rate) that the arbitragers, always out to make a quick buck, have scented an opportunity (i.e. money + publicity + amateur investors) and are starting to move in on it. If I'm correct, bitcoins will continue their rapid rate climb for a few more months before it all tanks when the pros suddenly cash out en masse.-40hz (March 22, 2013, 03:18 PM)
But the price will continue to go up no matter what. Will there be retracements? Sure. But they will always rebound. This is a mathematical certainty.-Renegade (March 22, 2013, 11:39 PM)
But the price will continue to go up no matter what. Will there be retracements? Sure. But they will always rebound. This is a mathematical certainty.-Renegade (March 22, 2013, 11:39 PM)
Sounds more like a declaration of religious faith rather than a mathematical proof to me...but ok. If you say so. ;D-40hz (March 22, 2013, 11:50 PM)
I'm not a fan of bitcoin in any real way, but I'm deadly curious to see what does happen with it.-tomos (March 22, 2013, 05:05 PM)
BFD. I know attorneys and doctors who turn twice that in an hour and do even less to get it. :P-40hz (March 22, 2013, 11:38 AM)
Do you really care if it is a pump & dump if you can make a buck?-Renegade (March 25, 2013, 10:52 AM)
I don't need to be proud about it, but I can certainly put food on the table and smile.-Renegade (March 25, 2013, 10:52 AM)
so... for the uninitiated, how do you get started?-wraith808 (March 25, 2013, 01:25 PM)
LOOKS like Bitcoin has got too big to ignore. Virtual currencies are to be regulated by the US Treasury after the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) moved to clarify their status under anti-money-laundering laws.
The move comes as Bitcoins doubled in value in just a few weeks to hit a record high of more than $70 each, possibly fuelled by the banking crisis in Cyprus and the rest of Europe.
FinCEN's new guidelines don't mention Bitcoin by name, but say that anyone involved in exchanges of decentralised virtual currency for real currency must register as a money services business and obey existing regulations. The same applies for centralised virtual currencies, such as Facebook credits.
The same applies for centralised virtual currencies, such as Facebook credits.
So, though they say Facebook credits, does this apply to others also, such as XBox live points, Sony Points, etc?-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 12:32 PM)
An interesting bit from that...The same applies for centralised virtual currencies, such as Facebook credits.
So, though they say Facebook credits, does this apply to others also, such as XBox live points, Sony Points, etc?-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 12:32 PM)
I think they'll probably mostly restrict it to transactions not locked into a single business like most of the gaming currencies. Anything that acts as a ready substitute for cash (i.e convertible to real cash - or - broadly accepted) will probably come under the rubric.
Look at it this way - if they're even slightly serious (and in the USA they certainly are) about all Internet transactions soon being subject to some form of state sales tax, you can bet they'll regulate things like bitcoins since you could potentially do an end run around the tax system using them. And that brings up a much more powerful way of going after non-cooperative alternative currencies - TAX EVASION! (That's how they ultimately got Al Capone.)
I stand by my earlier comment: The reaction was inevitable. The outcome is predictable. :tellme:-40hz (March 26, 2013, 02:10 PM)
The government isn't so much looking to catch tax evaders (but that could be a bonus) as much as they are trying to stop money laundering, which supports the drug trade and terrorism.-app103 (March 26, 2013, 02:36 PM)
What I'd still like to know is if this site will be affected by these new rules. Will this site's donation credits system cause it to have to register as an MSB?
^I'd suspect if they can be cashed out for 'real' money the answer is: possibly probably maybe. ;)-40hz (March 26, 2013, 03:23 PM)
I wonder if there is a floor on the amount of money. I mean, for my years here, I've really only made money to support hobby and entertainment stuff. Not sure if anyone else has made more than that...-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 04:56 PM)
I wonder if there is a floor on the amount of money. I mean, for my years here, I've really only made money to support hobby and entertainment stuff. Not sure if anyone else has made more than that...-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 04:56 PM)
What I mean is a minimum amount in transactions before you have to register.-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 06:32 PM)
What I mean is a minimum amount in transactions before you have to register.-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 06:32 PM)
Is that about FinCEN? I'm still confused. :-[-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 06:48 PM)
Well...in the end it will be for the courts to decide. I'm guessing the question will at least attempt to come before the Supreme Court someday - although the court would have plenty of ground for refusing to hear it since the proposed new rules basically are only specifically adding "virtual currencies" to the formal list of electronic transfers already covered by existing laws. So it's really only clarifying rather than extending wire transfer regulations.-40hz (March 26, 2013, 07:40 PM)
THIS is why BTC is such a threat to the establishment. It puts POWER back in the hands of the people. It RETURNS the rightful power of commerce to the participants in commerce, and prevents the establishment from meddling where it has no legitimate right and doesn't belong.
They will fight tooth and nail on this issue.-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM)
Time to call a spade a spade... >:(-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM)
And here we survived for 4 pages! LOL-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 09:33 PM)
The control freaks still don't get it. The cat is out of the bag. It's loose. It ran away and they'll never catch it.
The power is in the network and out of their hands.-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM)
Time to call a spade a spade... >:(-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM)
And press the express elevator button... down? ;D
And here we survived for 4 pages! LOL-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 09:33 PM)
@40hz - How could it be shut down? Shut down all encrypted traffic? I don't get how it's possible to shut down like that.-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 10:22 PM)
So, in summary... Full on "make Nineteen Eighty-Four looks like paradise".-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 10:59 PM)
I am extremely bullish on this.-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 08:26 AM)
The thing that I find absolutely fascinating about it is the power of the people in a P2P network to create such an incredible market.
Right now we are seeing the Wild, Wild West repeating itself online. It's a gold rush for anyone willing to jump in, get dirty, and start panning, and the barriers to entry are very low.
But really, if it's climbing, who cares?-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 09:56 AM)
As long as you can climb upwards and jump off at the right time.-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 09:56 AM)
But really, if it's climbing, who cares?-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 09:56 AM)
Hmm...what was that you were saying earlier about selling one's soul to Lucifer? :P-40hz (March 27, 2013, 10:07 AM)
As long as you can climb upwards and jump off at the right time.-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 09:56 AM)
And that- as many broke or dead from terminal forces after jumping off a high precipice day traders can attest to- is not as easy as putting those words to the keyboard is. ;D-wraith808 (March 27, 2013, 10:52 AM)
But you know who are and will continue to really make out like bandits with this? The guys with the botnets, distributing malware with bitcoin miner software, getting unsuspecting users to generate BTC for them when their computers are idle.-app103 (March 27, 2013, 12:03 PM)
But you know who are and will continue to really make out like bandits with this? The guys with the botnets, distributing malware with bitcoin miner software, getting unsuspecting users to generate BTC for them when their computers are idle.-app103 (March 27, 2013, 12:03 PM)
I've actually thought of doing that... But.. alas.. I have this sense of right & wrong... :(-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 12:10 PM)
With the increasing popularity of online cash, there’s growing concern that virtual currencies bought on the Internet are funding illicit activities.
Now, standard banking rules aimed at suspicious dollar transfers will be applied to Web money. Companies that issue or exchange online cash will be regulated like traditional money-order providers, such as Western Union. Wall Street Journal reports.
After 30 days, even with a bunch of people in the DC IRC channel trying to mess up my experiment by hitting the miner page and parking their PCs there and mining BTC for me, I still had not managed to generate a full BTC. And Krishean (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=181527) has some powerful computers!-app103 (March 27, 2013, 12:44 PM)
Money-laundering rules for virtual currencyWith the increasing popularity of online cash, there’s growing concern that virtual currencies bought on the Internet are funding illicit activities.
Now, standard banking rules aimed at suspicious dollar transfers will be applied to Web money. Companies that issue or exchange online cash will be regulated like traditional money-order providers, such as Western Union. Wall Street Journal reports.
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/money-laundering-rules-for-virtual-currency/15905-Tinman57 (March 27, 2013, 05:01 PM)
After 30 days, even with a bunch of people in the DC IRC channel trying to mess up my experiment by hitting the miner page and parking their PCs there and mining BTC for me, I still had not managed to generate a full BTC. And Krishean (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=181527) has some powerful computers!-app103 (March 27, 2013, 12:44 PM)
Mining is intensive. CPU mining is pretty much dead for BTC, though it is still used for LTC.
I've managed to mine about 0.065 BTC using 2 video cards. That was a couple weeks or so. Not a lot, but still a bit more than $5.00 USD, almost $6.00.-Renegade (March 27, 2013, 07:47 PM)
I accept Bitcoin donations for my projects but no one donates them. Well then.-Tuxman (March 28, 2013, 05:06 AM)
I accept Bitcoin donations for my projects but no one donates them. Well then.-Tuxman (March 28, 2013, 05:06 AM)
Perhaps nobody that is interested in your projects has any Bitcoins to donate?
That was why I considered including an additional link (http://www.bitcoinplus.com/generate?for=15175129) for one to donate their CPU cycles to generate some for me, rather than only accepting actual Bitcoin donations. That way if you were interested in making a "I have no real money" donation, you could still donate something that you do have, even if you don't have any Bitcoins. ;)-app103 (March 28, 2013, 08:37 AM)
But you know who are and will continue to really make out like bandits with this? The guys with the botnets, distributing malware with bitcoin miner software, getting unsuspecting users to generate BTC for them when their computers are idle.Indeed - hence why I think the currency should be renamed "botcoin". The whole thing has always seemed extremely shady to me - like, the original author using a pseudonym, the guy who came to #doco and wanted *us* to write articles about it, et cetera. But I guess I wouldn't want to reveal my real name if I had conjured up a Get Rich From Botnets plan :)-app103 (March 27, 2013, 12:03 PM)
On top of that, I'm pretty much with 40hz. Enjoy the bubble before it bursts.-f0dder (March 29, 2013, 02:19 PM)
For anybody still following this thread, there's an article over at Business Insider that has a copy of an interesting presentation on what Bitcoin is (Surprise!!! - it's a protocol.) and how it works.
It probably won't answer every question you may have. And it glosses just a little too quickly over some important economic concepts IMO. (Note: the presentation was put together by a programmer so I guess that's to be expected) But it's still very informative. And also quite funny in several places
Well worth the look. Check it out here (http://www.businessinsider.com/presentation-what-is-bitcoin-2013-3?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29#more-on-currency-mining-25). :Thmbsup:-40hz (April 01, 2013, 07:21 AM)
And it's just broken $100! Hit $101!-Renegade (April 01, 2013, 09:19 AM)
http://cynic.me/2013/04/02/bitcoin-hit-100-usd/
It just hit $100 USD.-Renegade (April 01, 2013, 09:18 AM)
OCD is in full swing today folks! :P ;D-40hz (April 01, 2013, 09:41 AM)
Thanks for the site address in the address bar in the picture... that's a cool site!-wraith808 (April 01, 2013, 09:50 AM)
@Ren - semi-urelated FYI: I just added your feed to my RSS collection. Not too often I add another entry to that carefully vetted list. :Thmbsup: 8)-40hz (April 01, 2013, 10:28 AM)
Don't let them fool you. Bitcoin is SkyNET. :P-40hz (April 02, 2013, 07:11 AM)
Ok...
:P :P-40hz (April 02, 2013, 08:43 AM)
^Don't worry. There's every good chance they'll see you on your way back down. ;)-40hz (April 02, 2013, 08:58 AM)
(P.S. I also very sincerely hope I'm wrong about that and you make a bloody fortune off it. Luck! :) :Thmbsup: )-40hz (April 02, 2013, 08:58 AM)
A new piece of malware is floating around, but that seems like par for the course these days. What makes this malicious bit of code notable is the goal its creators have in mind. The malware is being spread via Skype messages and is designed to turn your PC into a remote Bitcoin mining rig without your knowledge or consent.
What Took Them So Long Dept...Note that "notable" doesn't mean "not seen before" - botcoining is hardly new.
India comes trough! The previously suggested zombie bitcoin miner is real. From the folks at Geek.com:A new piece of malware is floating around, but that seems like par for the course these days. What makes this malicious bit of code notable is the goal its creators have in mind-40hz (April 06, 2013, 11:59 AM)
Note that "notable" doesn't mean "not seen before" - botcoining is hardly new.-f0dder (April 06, 2013, 12:01 PM)
^I think the "notable" (as in worth noticing) reference is that the malware's primary goal is to steal CPU cycles for the author's gain, rather than to steal user data from the host machine as is usually the case.Yup - but as app also noted, it's not new by any stretch :)-40hz (April 06, 2013, 01:43 PM)
^Sorry! Misunderstood what you were saying.
Agree - bots that work like that are nothing new. What I meant was it was bound to happen to Bitcoin now that a speculative bubble is in full swing. Where I'm surprised is that it took this long for it to show up.
;D-40hz (April 06, 2013, 03:49 PM)
I would really like this forum to avoid anything related to discussing investing or making money on markets -- it's just not the place for it.
It's one thing for us to discuss the concept of something like bitcoins -- but when we start showing charts and talking about making money and when to buy and sell, etc.. that has no place here.-mouser (April 07, 2013, 09:24 AM)
Understood. I would like to thank you for being a gracious host. I feel that I must bid you goodbye. Please know that all my best wishes are with you.-Renegade (April 07, 2013, 11:16 AM)
Still can't really get behind it 100% until it's possible to pay for the basic necessities with it, (rent, utilities, food) without having to convert it into traditional currency, first.-app103 (April 07, 2013, 07:51 PM)
[ Looks like it's really taking off....]
Online electronics store buys into bitcoins as sole currency
An online electronics retailer, Bitcoinstore, has had such a successful trial run accepting only bitcoins for payment that it will continue operating.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2033373/online-electronics-store-buys-into-bitcoins-as-sole-currency.html-Tinman57 (April 07, 2013, 07:41 PM)
I tend to follow about a dozen libertarian/counter-economics blogs. And needless to say, bitcoins seem to be their new poster child. However, I find it interesting that the diehard bitcoin supporters are constantly crowing about how the prices are illogically ratcheting up while at the same time criticizing national monetary policies and currencies for encouraging inflation. Same goes for the widespread bitcoin supporters' criticism of fractional reserve banking for "printing money with nothing backing it " when there is really no underlying value you can pin a bitcoin to - other than the "irrational exuberance" that is apparently driving its soaring rates.-40hz (April 08, 2013, 06:33 AM)
You ignore the *big* difference that Bitcoin is limited.-tomos (April 08, 2013, 09:22 AM)
You ignore the *big* difference that Bitcoin is limited. Otherwise I agree with the above.-tomos (April 08, 2013, 09:22 AM)
I think I'm probably missing something again being a bitcoin neophyte. Limited in what way?-40hz (April 08, 2013, 02:40 PM)
Sure, there's lots of differences. There's the novelty thing too.You ignore the *big* difference that Bitcoin is limited. Otherwise I agree with the above.-tomos (April 08, 2013, 09:22 AM)
I think I'm probably missing something again being a bitcoin neophyte. Limited in what way?-40hz (April 08, 2013, 02:40 PM)
If there were a sudden loss of confidence in standard currencies I'd think gold and all the other commodities would be hyperinflating in market value just as rapidly. But they're not. So I don't think the Cypress banking crisis (as one often given example) is driving the bitcoin roller coaster. I think it's pure speculative "gold rushing" fueld by the usual combination of greed and ignorance at play here. It's not sustainable. And when it crashes it will be far more likely to take down bitcoin rather than anything else.-40hz (April 08, 2013, 02:40 PM)
"b-money, a scheme for a group of untraceable digital pseudonyms to pay each other with money and to enforce contracts amongst themselves without outside help".
For speculators to focus on the profits to be made from gambling in arbitrage trading, as a new market develops, would be a natural thing for any emerging market, and will generally assist in its development and stability - Bitcoin would presumably be no exception to that.
$171.4/BTC now o.0Don't let the glare of the potential gains dazzle you to the extent that you are unable to see the potential losses (statistical history: there's already been one relatively major deflation, don't forget), and be aware that fear is likely to be a primary motivator in your behaviours - fear of potential loss of an unrealised potential and intangible gain. This is or would be absurd/irrational. As well as being irrational and acting as an amplifier for our innate greed under these circumstances, fear is one of the most destructive of human emotions, and it is extremely difficult to remain rational whilst in a state of fear - and therefore easy to make mistakes.
How I wish I bought them back in '12 when they were $5/BTC
Hindsight is a heartless bitch.-Stephen66515 (April 07, 2013, 09:15 PM)
Don't let the glare of the potential gains dazzle you to the extent that you are unable to see the potential losses (statistical history: there's already been one relatively major deflation, don't forget), and be aware that fear is likely to be a primary motivator in your behaviours - fear of potential loss of an unrealised potential and intangible gain. This is or would be absurd/irrational. As well as being irrational and acting as an amplifier for our innate greed under these circumstances, fear is one of the most destructive of human emotions, and it is extremely difficult to remain rational whilst in a state of fear - and therefore easy to make mistakes.
Money can make a very good servant, but a dreadful master.-IainB (April 08, 2013, 07:22 PM)
It seems to bother you a lot it not being backed by anything, yet you seem accepting of the same thing with the dollar (or am I misunderstanding your position there?)-tomos (April 08, 2013, 03:14 PM)
The initiator of the Bitcoin experiment went under the pseudonym of Satoshi Nakamoto. Towards the end of 2010 Satoshi apparently left the project saying he had moved on to other things (http://bitcoin.org/en/about).-IainB (April 08, 2013, 07:22 PM)
...If somebody cleans out my bank account I have several very direct avenues of legal recourse....Yes, well, maybe you might have - today, in any event - but this would seem to be inapplicable if you live in Cyprus/Europe.-40hz (April 08, 2013, 09:34 PM)
The current artificial and deliberate cap of about 20 million BTC numbers (objects) that can be created in/by the Bitcoin protocol is very interesting in that it is a control - it safely controls the experiment and caps the bubble that we see inflating/deflating (it is currently re-inflating after having had one major deflation).
This control affects/limits the endogenous money supply (M3) in this enclosed system, but not necessarily the velocity of circulation of the money. The latter may be theoretically unlimited, but in practice could be under a constraint set via a function determining the necessary CPU cycle time forced to be consumed in operating the protocol.-IainB (April 08, 2013, 07:22 PM)
I am very interested in, but also ambivalent about Bitcoin and crypto-currency generally, but I do at least see that in Bitcoin the currency seems to be its own gold standard (as I wrote in a separate post), and trust seems to be made irrelevant and is substituted by the security and statistical authenticity inherent in the incorruptible cryptographic protocol. I would suggest the possibility that Bitcoin - or other crypto-currency - could be considered as a potential new "gold standard", against which all other currencies could be valued.
Nationa/International settlement and exchange could even take place through the medium of the crypto-currency, thereby reducing systemic risk. Forex trading could become obsolete.-IainB (April 09, 2013, 05:33 AM)
Another interesting posting on Bitcoin...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/18f3pd/i_have_my_entire_retirement_and_savings_invested/-wraith808 (April 10, 2013, 06:21 PM)
Service is down for emergency maintenance for one hour, until 2013-04-11 23:30:00 UTC. Please retry at that time-www.mtgox.com
As expected in such situation people started to panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass (Panic Sale) resulting in an increase of trade that ultimately froze the trade engine! To give you an idea of how impressive things were here are some numbers that we would love to share with you guys: – The number of trades executed tripled in the last 24hrs. – The number of new account opened went from 60k for March alone to 75k new account created for the first few days of April! We now have roughly 20,000 new accounts created each day.
Database access error, please retry later
502 Bad Gateway[/edit2]
nginx/1.3.11
Trading is halted until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC to allow the market to cooldown following the drop in price. Read more details on the support. Additionally trading fees will not be charged within 48 hours of trading resuming (until 2013-04-14 02:00am UTC).
TOKYO - JAPAN - April 11, 2013 Hi everyone, just a quick update on the situation and what happened last night. First of all we would like to reassure you but no we were not last night victim of a DDoS but instead victim of our own success! Indeed the rather astonishing amount of new account opened in the last few days added to the existing one plus the number of trade made a huge impact on the overall system that started to lag. As expected in such situation people started to panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass (Panic Sale) resulting in an increase of trade that ultimately froze the trade engine! To give you an idea of how impressive things were here are some numbers that we would love to share with you guys: - The number of trades executed tripled in the last 24hrs. - The number of new account opened went from 60k for March alone to 75k new account created for the first few days of April! We now have roughly 20,000 new accounts created each day. Due to these facts we have been busy working on improving things since last week and our team has been working around the clock to improve Mt.Gox to catch up with the demand. We will continue to release several updates today and in the coming few days to improve our system overall performance. Also please note that we may have to close the exchange for two hours in the next 12 to 24hrs to add several new servers to our system. Thank you for your understanding and continuous support!
Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.-https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130411.html
By all extant metrics in security system review, this system should have failed instantaneously, at every possible layer.
And, to be fair, it has failed at other layers – BitCoin thefts have occurred, in the meta-code that surrounds the core technology itself.
But the core technology actually works, and has continued to work, to a degree not everyone predicted. Time to enjoy being wrong. What the heck is going on here?
First of all, yes. Money changes things.
A lot of the slop that permeates most software is much less likely to be present when the developer is aware that, yes, a single misplaced character really could End The World. The reality of most software development is that the consequences of failure are simply nonexistent. Software tends not to kill people and so we accept incredibly fast innovation loops because the consequences are tolerable and the results are astonishing.
BitCoin was simply developed under a different reality.
The stakes weren’t obscured, and the problem wasn’t someone else’s.
They didn’t ignore the engineering reality, they absorbed it and innovated ridiculously.
7 things you need to know about Bitcoin
Bitcoin is booming, but don't buy the hype before you read our guide.
Here It Comes – Australia to Abandon the U.S. Dollar (http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=180568)
April 13, 2013 - 07:00 America/
The Trumpet
Australia’s announcement that it is abandoning the U.S. dollar for trade with China is the latest broadside in the global currency war. Starting April 10, Australia and China will no longer use the U.S. dollar for trade between the two nations. For the first time, Australian businesses will be able to conduct trade in Chinese yuan. No more need for U.S. dollar intermediation.
This is a significant announcement and key development for China as it continues its campaign to internationalize the yuan and chip away at the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency.
Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard made the announcement during an official visit to Shanghai on Monday. She noted that China is now Australia’s biggest trading partner and that the direct currency trading would be a “huge advantage for Australia.”
She called the currency accord a “strategic step forward for Australia as we add to our economic engagement with China.”
(Read the post for more.)
This is a significant announcement and key development for China as it continues its campaign to internationalize the yuan and chip away at the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency.>-IainB (April 13, 2013, 07:01 AM)
This rather looks like a first brick being removed from the wall.-IainB (April 13, 2013, 09:56 AM)
Liu’s rise to riches and sudden disappearance aren’t just the makings of a made-for-Hollywood potboiler. They’re a warning of the risks investors take when dealing with opaque private businesses in China, where fortunes depend on political ties and the favors of state entities, and even the wealthiest entrepreneurs can vanish if they lose the patronage of powerful government allies.
^maybe we can actually use it as a currency now (if it's stabilises)-tomos (April 16, 2013, 03:23 AM)
^maybe we can actually use it as a currency now (if it's stabilises)-tomos (April 16, 2013, 03:23 AM)
Some could. I wouldn't willingly. Would you? ;)-40hz (April 16, 2013, 06:38 AM)
I wouldn't say it's more of an "environmental disaster" than the combo of Flash and Facebook games.-app103 (April 15, 2013, 04:20 PM)
I wouldn't say it's more of an "environmental disaster" than the combo of Flash and Facebook games.-app103 (April 15, 2013, 04:20 PM)
This. I'd say its more of a sensationalist headline than anything else. :-\-wraith808 (April 16, 2013, 08:56 AM)
Bitcoin drops below $70 on April 15th 2013. Chart here (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-falls-below-70-2013-4?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view).
Gold is not doing much better as a "safe haven." Story here (http://www.businessinsider.com/gold-is-not-a-safe-haven-2013-4?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29).
What a surprise!-40hz (April 15, 2013, 11:37 PM)
(oh... and something I always forget; remove the tracking crap from the urls if you remember... :))-wraith808 (April 16, 2013, 11:03 AM)
Why It's Important To Regulate Foreign Exchange8)
April 16 2013| Filed Under » Forex Economics, Forex History, Government Regulation
The foreign exchange (forex) market is the world's biggest financial market by far. According to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS)'s triennial survey, global forex turnover in April 2010 averaged a staggering $4.0 trillion daily, an increase of 20% from $3.3 trillion three years earlier. In an increasingly globalized economy, the significance of the foreign exchange marketplace to the average consumer cannot be underestimated. The rate at which our domestic currency can be exchanged in the global forex market determines the price we pay for an increasing number of products, the price-tag for our vacations, the rate of return on our investments (ROI), and even the interest rate on our loans and deposits.
And yet, despite the importance of this market, where currency gyrations can dictate the fortunes of everyone from the largest nation to the smallest consumer, foreign exchange remains a largely unregulated business. Although foreign exchange has traditionally been regarded as the exclusive domain of the biggest banks and corporations - recent trends have dispelled this notion, making it increasingly important for foreign exchange to come under the ambit of regulation...
I can't remember the name of the book, but I used to have one that detailed the trials and tribulations of people with the best of intentions and great ideas on how to rebuild our economy with a monetary system that gave actual value to it's currency,
much the same way it once outlawed individual possession of gold coins and bullion.-40hz (April 18, 2013, 08:37 PM)
much the same way it once outlawed individual possession of gold coins and bullion.-40hz (April 18, 2013, 08:37 PM)
wait...what? You guys can't own gold?! Since when? o.0-Stephen66515 (April 19, 2013, 06:13 AM)
Ask anybody who's tried minting their own stable-resource-backed money, like the banks used to do in the good/bad old days.-Edvard (April 18, 2013, 09:57 PM)
When I first heard of BitCoins, I said to myself that this was eventually going to happen.
It always does... :(
The Gold Reserve Act had economic ramifications far beyond national finance. At that time many contracts stipulated that their monetary terms could be demanded in gold. Such gold clauses were intended to protect against the United States devaluing the dollar.
The story is set in United States experiencing economic collapse, with inflation increasing rapidly and the government struggling to keep its power. Trading in foreign currency has become illegal and many shops are subject to rationing. As a result there is a black market for most goods. The setting represents the world as Samuel Edward Konkin III conceived it would be just prior to a successful agorist revolution.
The story begins with Elliot Vreeland, son of Nobel Laureate economist Dr Martin Vreeland (an economist of the Austrian school) hearing of his father's apparent death and being rushed home from school. He discovers quickly that the death is fake, a plot concocted by his father (after receiving a tip-off) to escape arrest by the FBI who are collecting "radicals" accused by the government of worsening the economic crisis...
much the same way it once outlawed individual possession of gold coins and bullion.-40hz (April 18, 2013, 08:37 PM)
wait...what? You guys can't own gold?! Since when? o.0-Stephen66515 (April 19, 2013, 06:13 AM)
@Stephen - we can now. Couldn't for a good number of years starting in 1933 and ending in 1975. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act).
Remember, this is the land of the "free" and the home of the brave.
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg324193#msg324193))-40hz (April 19, 2013, 07:01 AM)
If anybody cares to read a real Libertarian wet dream novel about an economic revolution succeeding@40Hz: I'm gonna have to look that one up! Austrian economists FTW!! :tellme:
...-40hz (April 19, 2013, 07:57 AM)
It's fascinating to watch, because it's all taking place rather slowly. If I were more connected and smarter in the early days etc I "shoulda/woulda" gotten my early Bitcoins then sat on them to make a living!
"Limited number of bitcoins" - so did no one else remember the story of the Black Lotus in Magic the Gathering?
8)-TaoPhoenix (May 06, 2013, 10:00 AM)
You mean that same Magic the Gathering that I paid for part of college off of my collection?
Investment = $450. Return = $6000+, plus a pretty fun game.
It's fascinating to watch, because it's all taking place rather slowly. If I were more connected and smarter in the early days etc I "shoulda/woulda" gotten my early Bitcoins then sat on them to make a living!
"Limited number of bitcoins" - so did no one else remember the story of the Black Lotus in Magic the Gathering?
8)-TaoPhoenix (May 06, 2013, 10:00 AM)
You mean that same Magic the Gathering that I paid for part of college off of my collection?
Investment = $450. Return = $6000+, plus a pretty fun game.-wraith808 (May 06, 2013, 10:14 AM)
You mean that same Magic the Gathering that I paid for part of college off of my collection?
Investment = $450. Return = $6000+, plus a pretty fun game.
I'm a MTG oldster as well. Still have some killer decks. But nobody around my rural community, that I know of, plays the game.-kyrathaba (May 06, 2013, 11:20 AM)
Exactly, meaning the "value" is becoming erratic! And even in areas that do have players, a lot of the ones I used to go to began quietly "not holding" Type 1 tourneys, thus making all of those Super Cards "valueless", which was the point I was hoping to make.-TaoPhoenix (May 06, 2013, 05:24 PM)
Is present monetary policy rational? (http://detlevschlichter.com/2013/05/is-present-monetary-policy-rational/)
By Detlev Schlichter On May 8, 2013
While the stance of monetary policy around the world has, on any conceivable measure, been extreme, by which I mean unprecedentedly accommodative, the question of whether such a policy is indeed sensible and rationale has not been asked much of late. By rational I simply mean the following: Is this policy likely to deliver what it is supposed to deliver? And if it does fall short of its official aim, then can we at least state with some certainty that whatever it delivers in benefits is not outweighed by its costs? I think that these are straightforward questions and that any policy that is advertised as being in ‘the interest of the general public’ should pass this test. As I will argue in the following, the present stance of monetary policy only has a negligible chance, at best, of ever fulfilling its stated aim. Furthermore, its benefits are almost certainly outweighed by its costs if we list all negative effects of this policy and do not confine ourselves, as the present mainstream does, to just one obvious cost: official consumer price inflation, which thus far remains contained. Thus, in my view, there is no escaping the fact that this policy is not rational. It should be abandoned as soon as possible.
The policy and its aims
The key planks of this policy are super low interest rates and targeted purchases (or collateralized funding) of financial assets by central banks. While various regional differences exist in respect of the extent of these programs and the assets chosen, all major central banks – the US Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, the Bank of England and the Bank of Japan – have been engaged and continue to be committed to versions of this policy. Its purpose is to facilitate exceptionally cheap funding for banks and to affect the pricing of a wide range of financial assets, in particular and most directly government bonds but also mortgage bonds in the US and real-estate investment trusts and corporate securities in Japan. There is an ongoing debate in the UK and in the Euro Zone, too, about directly boosting prices of other, ‘private’ securities, that is, to have their prices manipulated upwards by direct purchases from the central banks.
To the wider public this policy is described as ‘stimulating’ growth, ‘unlocking’ the flow of credit and ‘jump-starting’ the economy. If that is indeed the aim, this policy has already failed.
We have now had almost five years of near-zero interest rates around the world. If such low interest rates were indeed the required kick-starter for the economy, we should have seen the results by now. ‘Stimulus’ is something that incites or arouses to action, a kind of ‘ignition’ that sets off processes, in this case, one assumes, a self-sustained economic recovery. But if the world economy was really fundamentally healthy and only in need of a dose of caffeine to stir it back into action, then dropping rates from around 4 to 5 percent to zero, as happened already 4 or 5 years ago, should have done the trick by now.
Defenders of the policy will argue that we would all be in much more of a bind without it but this is not the point here. This is something we can discuss when comparing costs and benefits. There is no escaping the conclusion that this policy has failed if its aim is to provide a required ignition – the stimulus – to ‘jump start’ the economy.
In support of my conclusion that this policy has failed as a ‘kick-starter’ of self-sustained growth I can quote as witnesses the very officials and experts who advocated this policy in the first place and who are still implementing it. Not a single one of the major central banks is even close to announcing the successful conclusion of these policies or is even beginning to contemplate an exit. 5 years into ‘quantitative easing’ and zero interest rates, the Fed last week began to openly consider increasing its monthly debt monetization program. Although the week ended on a bright note, at least for the professional optimists out there, as the unemployment rate came in a tad lower than expected, manufacturing data during the week was disappointing and the US economy is evidently entering another growth dip.
Still, many argue that the roughly 2 percent growth that the US economy may achieve this year is nothing to be sniffed at. Yet, for a $15 trillion dollar economy that is just $300 billion in new goods and services. In the first quarter of 2013, the Fed expanded the monetary base by $300 billion alone, and the central bank is on course for $1 trillion in new money by Christmas, while the federal government will run a close to $1 trillion deficit despite the ‘sequester’. That is very little growth ‘bang’ for a lot of stimulus ‘buck’. Self-sustained looks different.
Last week in the Euro-Zone, the ECB cut its repo rate to 0.5%, a record low. If suppressing interest rates from 3.75% in 2007 to 0.75% by 2012, has not lead to a meaningful, let alone self-sustaining recovery, or at a minimum the type of underachieving recovery that would at least allow the ECB to sit tight and wait a bit, what will another drop to 0.5% achieve?
Shamelessly, some economists and financial commentators cite high youth unemployment in countries such as Spain as a good reason to cut rates further. The image that is projected here is evidently one of countless Spanish entrepreneurs standing at the ready with their investment projects, willing and eager to employ numerous Spanish young people if only rates were 0.25% lower. Then all their ambitious investment plans would become potentially profitable, and the long promised recovery could finally commence.
The number of young Spanish people who will find employment thanks to the ECB cutting rates close to zero cannot be known but I suggest a number equally close to zero is a reasonably good guess.
The ‘benefits’ – or are they costs?
This is not to say that this policy has no effects. It even had benefits, for some.
By suppressing market yields and boosting the prices of financial assets this policy has delivered substantial windfall profits for owners of stocks, bonds, and real estate. Those who did, for example, speculate heavily on rising property prices in the run-up to the recent crisis, then were put through the wringer by the financial meltdown, now find themselves happily resurrected and restored to their previous wealth, if not more wealth, courtesy of central bank charity.
The 0.25% rate cut from the ECB may not lift many young Spaniards into employment but it surely makes ‘owning’ financial assets on credit cheaper. For every €1 billion of assets the rate cut means a €2.5 million saving per year in cost of carry, as duly noted by the big banks, ‘investment’ banks and hedge funds. After the ECB rate cut, German Bunds reached new all-time highs as did, a few days later, Germany’s main stock index.
That we are witnessing strange and dangerous deformations of the capitalist system, if we can still even call it capitalist, and that new bubbles are being blown everywhere, is not only evident by the increasingly grotesque dichotomy between a woefully underperforming real economy perennially teetering on the brink of renewed recession and a financial system, in which almost every sector is trading at record levels, but also by the fact that the high correlation among asset classes on the way up to new records is beginning to strain the minds of the economists to come up with at least marginally plausible fundamental justifications for such uniform asset inflation. ‘Safe haven’ government bonds that would usually prosper at times of economic pain are equally ‘bid only’ as are risky equities and the grottiest of high yield bonds. The common denominator is, of course, cheap money. And if cheap money for the foreseeable future is not enough, then how about cheaper money – forever?
A conflicted conscience or outright embarrassment are now stirring some financial economists to suggest that the joys of bubble finance should be brought straight to the economic war zones in the European periphery, and that in order to have a bigger impact on the ‘real’ economy, the ECB should buy private loans and other local assets in these regions and thus more directly interfere in their pricing. The manipulations of the monetary central planners are too blunt, they need to be more fine-tuned. These suggestions are dangerously wrongheaded. Extending the addiction to the monetary crack cocaine of cheap credit beyond the financial dealing rooms of London, New York and Frankfurt and to the economy’s productive heartland is not going to solve anything, at least not in the long run, and that is a timescale that may still matter to some people, at least outside of the financial industry. Spain needs nothing less than a new artificially propped up real estate boom. The aforementioned Spanish youth would only swap today’s dependency on state hand-outs for dependency on never-ending cheap-credit policies from the ECB and ongoing asset-boosting price manipulations. This has nothing whatsoever to do with sustainable growth, lasting and productive employment and real wealth creation.
The fact that trained economists today seriously contemplate these policies and are willing to dress them up as ‘solutions’ only goes to show how far the new ’entitlement culture’ on Wall Street and in the City of London, where everybody now feels entitled to cheap credit and ongoing asset-boosting policy programs as the universal cure-all, has affected economic thinking. The speculating classes are beginning to feel generous: “Hey, this free cash is great. Let’s extend it to everybody.”
Would a deflationary correction be better?
Back to our cost-benefit analysis. The defenders of the present policy will argue that without it GDP in the major economies would have dropped more, that asset prices and lending would be more depressed, and that we might even be in the middle of some dreadful debt deflation. Maybe so. But to the extent that the present GDP readings are the result of central bank pump priming and not the result of renewed growth momentum, they are simply artificial and thus ultimately unsustainable. In fact, the mere suspicion that this might be so must undoubtedly depress optimism and thus the willingness to engage in the economy and put capital at risk. Nobody knows any longer what the real state of the economy is.
While the unemployed Spanish youth may not benefit – or only very marginally so – from record high German stock prices and their own government’s renewed ability to borrow yet more and yet more cheaply – they may in fact ultimately benefit from a deflationary clear-out that would cause prices on many everyday items to drop. Deflation is not such a bad thing if you have to live on your savings or a modest, nominally fixed payment stream. Additionally, reshuffling the economy’s deck of cards could also offer opportunities. Tearing down the old structures and allowing the market to price things honestly again, according to real risks and truly available savings, may at first cause some shock but ultimately bring new possibilities. The present monetary policy is inherently conservative. It bails out those who got it wrong in the recent crisis at the expense of those who didn’t even participate in the last boom. Some Schumpeterian creative destruction is urgently needed.
I am not advocating deflation or economic cleansing for the sake of deflation and contraction, or out of some sense of economic sadism, or even out of moral considerations of any kind. However, it strikes me that what ails the economy is not a lack of money or lack of a powerful ‘kick-starting’ stimulant, and it may not suffer from unduly high borrowing costs either. Wherever borrowing costs are still high in this environment of ‘all-in’ central bank accommodation they may be high for a reason, maybe even a good one. What ails the economy are the structural impediments that are well established and that had been long in the making, such as inflexible labor markets with their permanently enshrined high unit labor costs and excessive regulation that have always protected current job-holders at the expense of those out of work or entering the labor market. Overbearing welfare systems, high tax rates and outsized public sectors have long held back major economies. Easy money that, for some time, enabled high public sector borrowing and spending, and facilitated local property booms, helped cover up these structural rigidities. Now these issues simply come to the fore again. New rounds of easy money will not make these problems disappear but only create a new illusion of sustainability.
I haven’t even touched upon the growing risk that never-ending monetary accommodation will end in inflation and monetary chaos but it is apparent already that this policy has no convincing claim on rationality. Nevertheless, it is almost certain that it will be continued.
This will end badly.
Sorry, libertarians: Bitcoins are currency and can be regulated under U.S. law, says judge
08.08.2013 7:11 AM
If Bitcoins are the currency of choice for a computerized Wild West, the sheriff in town is trying to impose some order.
I wasn't surprised at that news at all. The Govt doesn't like anything to be wild-westy anymore.-TaoPhoenix (August 08, 2013, 08:13 PM)
but one thing is clear: If Bitcoins are the currency of choice for a computerized Wild West, the sheriff is pushing hard to impose some order amongst thechaosanarchy.
Needed a correction. Anarchy is not chaos.Definitely not. Constructive anarchy is the natural state for human society. Unfortunately there's always some douchenozzle waiting to take advantage of it and we haven't worked out a solution to that yet which doesn't involve a government.-Renegade (August 08, 2013, 11:36 PM)
Sure they can try to regulate it... try. But where are the teeth?-Renegade (August 08, 2013, 11:36 PM)
Sure they can try to regulate it... try. But where are the teeth?-Renegade (August 08, 2013, 11:36 PM)
Ask Manning. Ask anybody who is a detainee (who doesn't exist, being held by any government in places that don't exist, having things done to them that aren't done, courtesy of laws they're not allowed to know about) where the teeth are.
People are amazingly unaware of just how mind-numbingly powerful modern governments are. There's plenty of teeth to be seen once the decision to bare them gets made.
This isn't to say it's hopeless to buck the system. But it's important to realize that if you think any government is just going to roll over - or follow its own rules should the going get tough - you are setting yourself up for very harsh lesson in realpolitik.-40hz (August 09, 2013, 03:59 AM)
Namely in earlier times it was easier to control an million people literally it was easier to control an million people than physically, to kill a million people. Today it is infinitely easier to kill a million people, than to control a million people.-Zbigniew Brzezinski Chatham House Speech November 2008 Part 1
Their capacity to oppose control over the politically awakened masses of the world is at A historical low.
While they may regulate bitcoin, they can't police every single person for every transaction,-Renegade (August 09, 2013, 06:20 AM)
bitcoin can be a good tool to help undermine the power of the all-powerful state.
This is the Bitcoin Machine. Here's how it works:
- Scan your Bitcoin QR code.
- Insert cash.
- You have bitcoins! Buy yourself something pretty.
If you are located in the US, we require a signed due diligence questionnaire prior to shipping.
Every Important Person In Bitcoin Just Got Subpoenaed By New York's Financial Regulator
Things are getting serious for Bitcoin this month: a federal judge declared it real money, Bloomberg gave it an experimental ticker (XBT), and New York’s financial regulator announced an interest in regulating it. Declaring Bitcoin “a virtual Wild West for narcotraffickers and other criminals,” the New York State Department of Financial Services is stepping into the sheriff’s boots.
“We believe that – for a number of reasons – putting in place appropriate regulatory safeguards for virtual currencies will be beneficial to the long-term strength of the virtual currency industry,” said NYSDFS superintendent Benjamin Lawsky in a statement.
...
List of companies subpoenaed by the New York State Department of Financial Services
- BitInstant
- BitPay
- Coinabul
- Coinbase Inc.
- CoinLab
- Coinsetter
- Dwolla
- eCoin Cashier
- Payward, Inc.
- TrustCash Holdings Inc.
- ZipZap
- Butterfly Labs
- Andreesen Horowitz
- Bitcoin Opportunity Fund
- Boost VC Bitcoin Fund
- Founders Fund
- Google Ventures
- Lightspeed Venture Partners
- Tribeca Venture Partners
- Tropos Funds
- Union Square Ventures
- Winklevoss Capital Management
This really is the fight-back of the Jocks vs the Nerds again. Even with flaws, the concept of Bitcoin is brilliant. Subpoenas are Muscle.-TaoPhoenix (August 13, 2013, 01:43 PM)
An ATM regulation from 2006 stems from the Patriot Act concerning background checks and money wire transfers. If someone has a felony on their record, they cannot operate an ATM in the USA because an ATM conducts wire transfers from a bank account. People with a felony record cannot legally operate or even legally fill an ATM with money.
A background check must now be run by the processing networks before an ATM is allowed on the network to make sure the law is followed. If someone thinks they may not pass a background check because of a felony record, maybe a spouse or business partner can. As stated above, anyone with a felony cannot own a machine or load money into the machine, this includes an individual performing administrative duties inside the machine. An ATM falls under the wire transfer regulations for banking which are part of the Patriot Act.
"Bloomberg gave it an experimental ticker (XBT)" - Huh? Does anyone happen to know what "X" means there?-Renegade (August 13, 2013, 12:26 PM)
"Bloomberg gave it an experimental ticker (XBT)" - Huh? Does anyone happen to know what "X" means there?-Renegade (August 13, 2013, 12:26 PM)
The X probably stands for eXperimental.-app103 (August 13, 2013, 07:08 PM)
ISO 4217 includes codes not only for currencies, but also for precious metals (gold, silver, palladium and platinum; by definition expressed per one troy ounce, as compared to "1 USD") and certain other entities used in international finance, e.g. special drawing rights. There are also special codes allocated for testing purposes (XTS), and to indicate no currency transactions (XXX). These codes all begin with the letter "X". The precious metals use "X" plus the metal's chemical symbol; silver, for example, is XAG. ISO 3166 never assigns country codes beginning with "X", these codes being assigned for privately customized use only (reserved, never for official codes)—for instance, the ISO 3166-based NATO country codes (STANAG 1059, 9th edition) use "X" codes for imaginary exercise countries ranging from XXB for "Brownland" to XXR for "Redland", as well as for major commands such as XXE for SHAPE or XXS for SACLANT. Consequently, ISO 4217 can use "X" codes for non-country-specific currencies without risk of clashing with future country codes.
Supranational currencies, such as the East Caribbean dollar, the CFP franc, the CFA franc BEAC and the CFA franc BCEAO are normally also represented by codes beginning with an "X". The euro is represented by the code EUR (EU is included in the ISO 3166-1 reserved codes list to represent the European Union). The predecessor to the euro, the European Currency Unit (ECU), had the code XEU.
Now, you *could* pull something else out from there, but when the generally accepted code is BTC, nah... it's a slight.-Renegade (August 13, 2013, 07:14 PM)
XE was founded in Canada in 1993, providing computer consulting and Internet services for corporate clients. Through our consulting services we quickly identified the need for interactive financial services on the web, so we set out to demonstrate how interactive financial services could be. As a result, in 1995, on our XE.COM™ website, we launched a service called the XE Currency Converter ® - creating one of the web's very first dynamic sites.
XE became increasingly popular, and by 1997, it was clear that we were running the Internet's dominant currency tool. We switched our business focus to currency services and began enhancing our proprietary rate system and website. We further developed our advanced rate infrastructure to factor in multiple sources and automatically detect errors. This lets us generate a highly reliable data feed that is much more accurate than any individual feed. By the new millennium we had become a bona fide currency portal. Today, more than one thousand clients, many of them major corporations, license our Data Feed Service currency rates for commercial purposes.
Bitcoin Currency Code
Bitcoin is not recognized by the ISO and therefore does not have an official ISO 4217 code. A currency code is generally built from the two-digit ISO 3316 country code and a third letter for the currency. Although "BTC" is often used in the Bitcoin community, BT is the country code of Bhutan. An X-code reflects currencies that are used internationally and so, XE has chosen to use XBT to represent Bitcoin.
Yep, once you get that big red x on your back, they want to make sure that you continue to fail until an act of self preservation puts you back in prison.-Tinman57 (August 13, 2013, 07:20 PM)
@Ren - I think you're reading way too much into it. ;)-40hz (August 13, 2013, 08:32 PM)
@Ren - I think you're reading way too much into it. ;)-40hz (August 13, 2013, 08:32 PM)
Sure, that's very possible. I'm overly cynical sometimes.-Renegade (August 13, 2013, 08:54 PM)
i've merged several recent bitcoin threads as i think they were starting to clutter up the living room.
i think we would be better off keeping all bitcoin discussion on one or two threads.-mouser (August 13, 2013, 08:41 PM)
US Senate committee takes a hard look at virtual currencies like Bitcoin
08.13.2013 2:50 PM
A prominent U.S. Senate committee has launched a formal inquiry to investigate criminal activity and other risks tied to the use of virtual currencies such as Bitcoins. It's the first congressional inquiry into virtual currencies at a broad scale.
Go on... gloat. Haterz gonna hate. :mad:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10210022/Bitcoins-banned-in-Thailand.html-Renegade (August 20, 2013, 06:08 AM)
Be careful what you wish for. :huh:-40hz (August 20, 2013, 09:25 AM)
Bitcoin-Qt version 0.8.4 is now available from:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.4/
This is a maintenance release to fix a critical bug and three
security issues; we urge all users to upgrade.
If anyone wants to make bitcoins by chatting with others, then they should checkout coinchat.org
It is IRC chat channel that pays for the chatting (payout in bitcoins via inputs.io system).-mahesh2k (September 04, 2013, 08:10 AM)
Win 2 Bitcoins!
Design the new look of our website and you could win 2 BTC. For more info, email us contest[at]dealco.in
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg337131#msg337131))
Tracing Bitcoins May be Easier Than Criminals Think MIT Technology Review (http://www.technologyreview.com/news/518816/mapping-the-bitcoin-economy-could-reveal-users-identities/)
Takes some of the shine off bitcoins doesn't it?-Arizona Hot (September 07, 2013, 11:20 PM)
“The Bitcoin protocol still has huge potential for anonymity,” says Sarah Meiklejohn, who led the research project, “but the way that people are using it is not achieving anonymity at all.”
Another article for the bitcoin fans.
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg337439#msg337439))
Let's Cut Through the Bitcoin Hype A Hacker-Entrepreneur's Take (http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/05/lets-cut-through-the-bitcoin-hype/)-Arizona Hot (September 10, 2013, 03:39 PM)
Nothing made by humans is ever free of politics or even error.
Not even math...
Fighting over what’s “fiat” and what’s “real” is silly. It’s all fiat. Gold isn’t conscious; all value is belief. What’s fiat is who can change the supply and how. Nobody can just declare the existence of one million new bitcoin and start trading on it. It doesn’t matter how much we do or don’t trust the U.S. Federal Reserve, the system knows how many bitcoin exist at what time, and knows where they all are, globally.
Abstract:
This paper will discuss and evaluation the design features of Bitcoin in relation to the libertarian and metallist philosophies that have shaped the cryptocurrency. Bitcoin has failed to be perfectly decentralized or particularly anonymous. Furthermore, its hyperdeflationary design features have made Bitcoin a currency dependent on outside, more stable currencies (e.g., the U.S. dollar), which serve as units of account. Finally, despite the view of money taken by its creators, this supposedly stateless currency is far from apolitical in nature. Although its creators tend to espouse apolitical accounts of money, Bitcoin has been from the beginning a political project -- an evolving, distributed constitutional project, with many goals, visions, and factions. Furthermore, depending on the shape of these political goals, Bitcoin advocates may or may not have a vested interest in creating mechanisms to stabilize the currency and make it a viable unit of account.
What has been dubbed as "mint chip" is exciting since it's being undertaken by the government
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg339371#msg339371))
Drugs, Bitcoins and a Canadian blackmailer How the FBI tracked down the Silk Road suspect (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/drugs-bitcoins-and-murder-how-a-canadian-blackmailer-led-the-fbi-to-silk-road-suspect-ross-ulbricht/article14678067/)-Arizona Hot (October 04, 2013, 03:05 PM)
Bitcoins: The future of money?
Moderated by Andrew Nusca | October 7, 2013 -- 07:00 GMT (18:00 AEST)
Summary: The FBI's shutdown of Silk Road rekindles discussion about the prospects for that site's preferred currency.
Why Would You Want to Be Anonymous? Or, Bitcoin and the Great Silk Road Bust
Theodore Iacobuzio | October 7, 2013
It’s a fair question. Now that Silk Road has been busted (the details are ultra gamey) is there any reason for Bitcoin, the anonymous online currency backed by nothing but its users (i.e., not by any state), to continue in existence? After all, the only other reason to hold it is for fun, speculation, and… anonymity. The first two do not promise great volume. Is the last always sinister?
That depends, it seems to Global Insights, on how important your personal information is to you. Just this week we went public with our own look at these issues in The Digital Sharing and Trust Project. One important segment, Proactive Protectors, is very concerned with actively guarding their online identity. And while they are by our estimate 17 percent of the global market, 17 percent of the global market is a lot. Seventeen percent of anything is a lot. Enough to keep Bitcoin going, one would think.
As I say, we’re about to find out.
Capital One has closed a bank account belonging to a company that produces metal medallions after it started selling commemorative silver and copper bitcoin coins.
Rob Gray, CEO of Mulligan Mint, Inc said Capital One gave him no warning before it closed his company’s bank account. He has since contacted the bank, but isn’t satisfied with its response.
from the pure malice department:-Renegade (October 10, 2013, 11:56 AM)
I'm waiting for Google to be ordered to stop indexing and providing search results for the terms 'Bitcoin' and 'crypto-currency.' They're already trying to have Google do that with VPN and share sites in some countries.-40hz (October 10, 2013, 01:08 PM)
^video visuals reminds me of the last supper...
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg339823#msg339823))
(will probably take some time to see who that's ironic for)-tomos (October 11, 2013, 06:27 AM)
After Silk Road Closure, And With Baidu’s Blessing, Bitcoin Breaks $200 Again
The value of a single Bitcoin has broken the $200 mark for only the second time. The cost of a single Bitcoin hit a high of more than $205 earlier today on the biggest Bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, although it’s since dipped slightly. At the time of writing it’s still trading at above $200.
^Again, if Bitcoin is officially supposed to be a currency alternative and not an investment, why does it's constantly spiraling value keep being touted as a proof of concept?-40hz (October 22, 2013, 10:24 AM)
Currency needs to maintain a fairly stable and predictable value in order to be a usable medium of exchange.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 10:24 AM)
Otherwise it gets dumped whenever it drops and hoarded when it's rising.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 10:24 AM)
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).-wraith808 (October 22, 2013, 10:53 AM)
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).-wraith808 (October 22, 2013, 10:53 AM)
Errr... uh, I'm not so sure about that being a good thing. Look at people's purchasing power over the last 200 or 300 years or so. The last 100 years have been a train wreck.-Renegade (October 22, 2013, 11:50 AM)
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).-wraith808 (October 22, 2013, 10:53 AM)
Errr... uh, I'm not so sure about that being a good thing. Look at people's purchasing power over the last 200 or 300 years or so. The last 100 years have been a train wreck.-Renegade (October 22, 2013, 11:50 AM)
I'm not so sure about that.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 12:07 PM)
If anybody today thinks the economy and standard of living in the western world during the 1800s was preferable to that of the 1900s, you'd have to turn a blind eye to most of the history of the 20th century.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 12:07 PM)
The increase of total money in the system is what led to much of the economic advances the western world experienced.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 12:07 PM)
Even the depression in the 20s wasn't enough to tank the economy permanently - or seriously slow it down.-40hz (October 22, 2013, 12:07 PM)
I'm never convinced by that argument - can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living?-tomos (October 22, 2013, 01:35 PM)
An economy needs government, ABSOLUTELY NEEDS government, to regulate the total quantity of money in circulation.
@Ren - your innerLibertarianVoluntarist/Anarchist is showing again. ;D :P (kidding!)-40hz (October 22, 2013, 09:03 PM)
So, if it cost $0.05 to buy a loaf of bread 100 years ago (when the standard of living was lower), and today it costs $5.00 (with a higher standard of living), then, when a loaf of bread costs $500.00 then what?-Renegade (October 22, 2013, 08:44 PM)
So, if it cost $0.05 to buy a loaf of bread 100 years ago (when the standard of living was lower), and today it costs $5.00 (with a higher standard of living), then, when a loaf of bread costs $500.00 then what?-Renegade (October 22, 2013, 08:44 PM)
I dont really care what something costs in comparision to x years ago (maybe I should) - I care what it costs in relation to what I can earn/make in an hour/day/week/month/year. That's my point when I ask "can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living?".-tomos (October 23, 2013, 01:31 AM)
Minimum wage workers in 1964 made about 30% more than minimum wage earners now. *IF* you look at fiat, only.-
Minimum wage for 1 hour in quarters in 1964 was about 0.82 troy ounces of silver.-
[...]
Today that's worth more than $18.50. (@ $22.60 per ozt)
I was thinking more in term of a comparision with 1800 or even 1900 (referencing your quote that money had lost so much value in the last 2 to 300 years). It's easy to cherry pick a very short period of time when average people did reasonably well, and say that's what the world would be like if [xyz].-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
But I dont see much logic there, nor much to convince me of anything really. I could just as easily argue that times were good then because banks were much more regulated (and we might both be right - or wrong, or it might just be the case that there's an awful lot more going on at any time, than any simple idea/concept can explain).-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
Why do I feel like I'm being cheated when you compare minimum wage in 1964 and today in terms of silver :-\-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
We've touched on this before (my post in basement thread about greenback dollars (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=36232.msg338940#msg338940)). SeraphimLabs claims a deflationary model is unstable (second post @ the link above). I dont know about his qualifications, but you didnt respond directly.-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
As I say I'm not qualified to talk about it, but off the top of my head, if money was related to, say, silver, and silver was increasing in value all the time, then wages would probably have to be reduced proportionately, otherwise companies would go bust. Not sure that would go down too well...-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
if money was related to, say, silver...-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
...and silver was increasing in value all the time...-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
...then wages would probably have to be reduced proportionately, otherwise companies would go bust.-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
I know that you know a lot about the flaws in fiat money Ren. But I get the impression that you dont know a whole lot more about economics than I do, yet you seem so very sure about your ideas. That sets off alarm bells for me. No offence intended - it's the ideas I'm on about ;)-tomos (October 23, 2013, 06:53 AM)
Wow... take an economics class!
Inflation (a *decrease* in a currency's value) is a completely different phenomenon from the price of a currency going UP (which is an *increase* in a currency's value).
You see, "inflation", as we usually encounter it, is due to an increase in the *amount* of money in circulation (not necessarily *physical* currency, mind you, as many people are paid, these days, with direct-deposit, and we buy things with a debit card, so no physical currency ever moved through our bank account. So, we're talking about the total amount of bank-account assets plus their cash minus their debts). When the amount of money in the economy goes up, that's more money people can spend on items in the market. And, since every price is the result of an invisible bidding war between buyers on a non-infinite supply of goods, if people *can* spend more money on something, some *will* spend more on it, and the price will be driven up.
When this happens, the price of the *currency* drops. It doesn't cost you as much, in terms of other currencies, to purchase it, because it doesn't have as much purchasing power. For example, suppose the British pound and the American dollar were trading 1:1. Suppose a candy-bar costs 1 dollar or 1 pound. Then, the American gov't prints a bunch of money and pays the people to build a bunch of roads or whatever. Now, the American people have twice as much money in their pocket, so they're going to be able to pay twice as much for a candy-bar, so the price of candy-bars goes up to 2 dollars. Meanwhile, a candy-bar *still* costs 1 British pound. And the *exchange* rate becomes 1 British pound buys 2 American dollars. *THAT* is inflation.
This is the opposite of what's happening with Bitcoin. A bitcoin's price, in terms of other currencies, has been going *up*, even though the supply of bitcoins has been (slowly) increasing. This is due to increased demand for it as more and more merchants accept it (which is the same as "demand" increasing).
Renegade are you posting in comments again? ;D-wraith808 (October 24, 2013, 02:04 PM)
Known Bitcoin Payment addresses for CryptoLocker
CryptoLocker allows you to pay the ransom by sending 2 bitcoins to an address shown in the decryption program. Bitcoins are currently worth over $200 USD on some bitcoins exchanges. Earlier variants of CryptoLocker included static bitcoin addresses for everyone who was infected. These static addresses include:
https://blockchain.info/address/18iEz617DoDp8CNQUyyrjCcC7XCGDf5SVb
https://blockchain.info/address/1KP72fBmh3XBRfuJDMn53APaqM6iMRspCh
Newer variants of CryptoLocker appear to be dynamically generating new bitcoin payment addresses for each instance of an infection. You can use the links above to see transactions into the wallet and out of the wallet.
How thoughtful of them to make it so easy to pay up in order to ransom your files back! ;) :Thmbsup:-40hz (October 25, 2013, 11:45 AM)
A Voluntaryist Contest
How Do You Explain to People That Taxation Is Theft?
5 ozt of silver is sweet, but 1 bitcoin is much sweeter! ;)
If you don't have any bitcoins yet, here's your chance to get 1!-Renegade (October 26, 2013, 01:20 AM)
5 ozt of silver is sweet, but 1 bitcoin is much sweeter! ;)
If you don't have any bitcoins yet, here's your chance to get 1!-Renegade (October 26, 2013, 01:20 AM)
And in addition to your chance to win a free bitcoin, your name will also be automatically entered for a 'chance' to be selected for the IRS's ever popular "randomly selected" high audit probability list!!! So nice of you to out yourself as a troublemaker...
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg340748#msg340748))
( :) Sorry. Not trying to go OT or scare people off. But my current campaign is pointing out the dangerous implications and possibilities for official abuse now that we live in a surveillance state here in the good ol' USA. If the thought of what this technology can be used for finally starts to worry people...well...they need to be worried.)-40hz (October 26, 2013, 07:25 AM)
^I think we 're past the point where just "speaking out" is going to be sufficient to extract us from this quagmire.
:(-40hz (October 26, 2013, 10:57 AM)
I wonder if DC allows bitcoins for the donation? That would be great. I don't know if mouser has any plans to add bitcoins over here.-mahesh2k (October 27, 2013, 07:47 AM)
Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value-Renegade (October 28, 2013, 12:01 AM)
Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value-Renegade (October 28, 2013, 12:01 AM)
???-barney (October 28, 2013, 02:16 AM)
All world currencies are inflationary. That is, they all lose value over time. $1 today has less purchasing power tomorrow. This is true for ALL world currencies that are issued/backed by governments/central banks. There are no exceptions.-Renegade (October 28, 2013, 05:43 AM)
Why don’t you accept other forms of payment?
The short answer is we’d love to but we can’t!
Our business is making and selling leather products. We like to sell our products across the world and the more customers the better. The problem is we operate in Iran and most payment systems either are not willing to serve us at all or impose a huge risk on our business. Before launching this website, our international sale has been limited to a few dedicated customers who knew about the quality of our products and were prepared to go through a lot of trouble to pay us! This of course, may sound incomprehensible for people who have all sorts of electronic payments at their disposal. However, before finding out about Bitcoin, receiving our money was the number one obstacle in expanding our business.
Now, with Bitcoin and the help of Bitcoin community we are hoping to become a role model for other small businesses in Iran to find global customers.
I wonder if DC allows bitcoins for the donation? That would be great. I don't know if mouser has any plans to add bitcoins over here.-mahesh2k (October 27, 2013, 07:47 AM)
The ... problem is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law
Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value as you avoid fiat inflation and get the advantage of bitcoin's deflation. This becomes easier and easier as more merchants/etc. start accepting bitcoins.-Renegade (October 28, 2013, 12:01 AM)
...without having to spend a lot and/or save up for the current cost of a single Bitcoin.-Stoic Joker (October 28, 2013, 11:27 AM)
IIUC Gresham's Law would indicate that Bitcoin will be saved and not spent at all - so long as fiat money exists (presuming Bitcoin continues increasing in value). [edit] but yes, your logic is good, so long as bitcoins increase). [/edit]-tomos (October 28, 2013, 03:11 PM)
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg341037#msg341037))
Kristoffer Koch, Norwegian man, buys apartment with Bitcoin profit (http://now.msn.com/kristoffer-koch-norwegian-man-buys-apartment-with-bitcoin-profit)-Arizona Hot (October 30, 2013, 01:00 PM)
We don't need to cooperate with control freaks
Combined with our Bitcoin donations. Dark Wallet reached 50% of its goal on Day 1. None of us saw that coming. Incredible.
Please continue to share this page with others. $50k but no visibility is only half the battle. We must feed the revolutionary imagination!
Authoritarian supression can not be supressed. If rebels are too strong, they will call in the Evil Emperor and his dark Jedi to use the dark side of the Force for them. Don't laugh, why do you think dystopias are so popular in literature? Be very careful how you rebel, atomic war and nuclear winter are not laughable.-Arizona Hot (November 02, 2013, 01:50 PM)
Ebay Expands Accepted Digital Currencies, Says PayPal May One Day Incorporate BitCoin
First it was China hinting that where Silk Road failed in monetizing, pardon the pun, BitCoin, the world's most populous nation could soon take the lead. Then, none other than private equity titan Fortress said it had great expectations for the digital currency. Now, it is eBay's turn to announce that it is preparing to expand the range of digital currencies it accepts, adding that "its payment unit PayPal may one day incorporate BitCoin." But not just yet. FT reports that according to eBay CEO John Donahoe, "digital currency is going to be a very powerful thing."
Paypal is in a very delicate position and stands to lose far more than they'd gain embracing and unconditionally endorsing Bitcoin right now. Bitcoin is still largely the province of geeks and campus coffeshop economic revolutionaries and bloggers. Until Bitcoin becomes more mainstream (and the bitcoin crowd tones down their rhetoric a bit and stops talking down to those who don't share their religion) I don't think Paypal is gonna stick their neck out too far for Bitcoin. At least not until the whole "Bitcoin thing" grows up a little more- in every sense.
:)-40hz (November 04, 2013, 06:43 AM)
I really don't understand why I'm the only one here at DC that's excited about this.-Renegade (November 04, 2013, 11:30 AM)
40, you seem to be so resistant in the face of overwhelming evidence that this really is the next big thing. Wouldn't you have loved to have bought "sex.com" or some other sweet-ass domain name way back for $75? Being dirt poor at the time, I didn't. I later wished that I had.-Renegade (November 04, 2013, 11:30 AM)
Fully electronic currency, however, is an idea whose time has come. Because unlike cash, it must create records if it's going to work. And that provides the perfect mechanism for the absolute surveillance of everybody everywhere at all times.-40hz (November 04, 2013, 02:04 PM)
Want anonymity? Take a tip from government covert ops and criminals everywhere. Use cash, real gold, or real diamonds. Electronic anything just won't cut it.-40hz (November 04, 2013, 02:04 PM)
Q. When was Microsoft's initial public offering (IPO)?
A. Microsoft went public March 13, 1986 at $21.00 per share.
The [theoretical] Cornell attack involves one large mining group that does not say when it has been rewarded with new Bitcoins. This "selfish" mining group then begins working on the cryptographic puzzle that will eventually release the next reward.
This gives it an advantage because every other mining group will still be working on a puzzle that has already been solved. By leveraging this advantage and being careful about when they release information about new Bitcoins they have mined, the group could gradually take control of the entire mining system.
Bitcoin at risk of network attack, say researchers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24818975)The [theoretical] Cornell attack involves one large mining group that does not say when it has been rewarded with new Bitcoins. This "selfish" mining group then begins working on the cryptographic puzzle that will eventually release the next reward.
This gives it an advantage because every other mining group will still be working on a puzzle that has already been solved. By leveraging this advantage and being careful about when they release information about new Bitcoins they have mined, the group could gradually take control of the entire mining system.-4wd (November 05, 2013, 08:44 PM)
I'd like to add financial market prediction and investment advice to the list of topics we should avoid like the plague on this forum.-mouser (November 05, 2013, 10:54 PM)
Seems a bit off...Perhaps so, but, technology notwithstanding, the general feel of the thread (to me, at least) is more toward profit and less toward the technology. What I've seen is fiat $$ to bitcoin back to fiat $$. That seems more financially than technology oriented. Investments in technology are all good and well, but is this the proper place for that particular discussion? E-Trade might be a better venue. There's no particular animus toward the proponents, nor even for the concept, but how does this thread promote the principles of donationcoder.com?-wraith808 (November 05, 2013, 11:52 PM)
Bitcoin is a technological advance. Just because it has something to do with financials doesn't make it any less so. Just my .02. And looking back through the thread, most of it is of a technological slant- even the last article posted. First we wanted to have one thread to contain it... and now no threads at all? Just ignore anything to do with it?(my emphasis)
Seems a bit off...-wraith808 (November 05, 2013, 11:52 PM)
but how does this thread promote the principles of donationcoder.com?-barney (November 06, 2013, 02:18 AM)
$1.2M Hack Shows Why You Should Never Store Bitcoins on the Internet-Arizona Hot (November 08, 2013, 04:11 PM)
$1.2M Hack Shows Why You Should Never Store Bitcoins on the Internet-Arizona Hot (November 08, 2013, 04:11 PM)
A somewhat eye-opening, albeit not unexpected, treatise. So, the question becomes, "How do I store/protect my bitcoins?" While I have non-Internet-connected boxes, that's not true of most folk. So do I store my coins on a USB key or memory card (both of which [are|can be] easily misplaced)? Do I trust to some form of Internet bank? Just how do I protect my investment, should I make it?-barney (November 08, 2013, 08:24 PM)
The site was a bank - not a wallet. Securing your bitcoins is simple. If you want to know more, post over at http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/ or http://bitcointalk.org/ and someone can explain why.-Renegade (November 08, 2013, 08:41 PM)
The site was a bank - not a wallet. Securing your bitcoins is simple. If you want to know more, post over at http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/ or http://bitcointalk.org/ and someone can explain why.-Renegade (November 08, 2013, 08:41 PM)
Been there, done that. Security is still an issue, always will be for anything online. There's an old saying to the effect that what Man can devise, Man can destroy. Anything online is vulnerable to a sufficiently skilled person. Denial of that does not make it untrue. I can lose my wallet by any number of physical means, but that is, in most cases, carelessness on my part, a lack of physical security - basically my fault, I failed to secure it properly in a physical manner. I do not have that security option online. Others might, but I ain't that bright.-barney (November 08, 2013, 11:09 PM)
@barney, nothing wrong with looking for loopholes, but I get the impression you're looking for loopholes *because* you are against bitcoin (or the concept) for some reason?-tomos (November 09, 2013, 10:59 AM)
Today marks another notch in the belt for Bitcoin believers.
The University of Nicosia in Cyprus has become the first accredited university to accept Bitcoin for payment of tuition and associated fees, it announced in a statement today.
It’s been a good week for Bitcoin. Earlier this week, a Subway franchisee started accepting Bitcoin as payment for sandwiches. And last week, Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and investors launched an accelerator focusing specifically on the digital currency.
LONDON -- An IT worker threw out a computer hard drive without realizing it contained $7.5 million worth of the digital currency Bitcoin.
The device is now buried somewhere in a vast landfill site near the home of owner James Howells -- who only realized his mistake when it was too late.
In Bitcoin's Orbit Rival Virtual Currencies Vie for Acceptance (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/in-bitcoins-orbit-rival-virtual-currencies-vie-for-acceptance/?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fbusiness%2Findex.jsonp)-Arizona Hot (December 01, 2013, 03:57 AM)
Computer users are being warned about "scam" apps which stealthily use their PC's resources to "mine" Bitcoins - by getting permission in a lengthy user agreement.
The security company Malwarebytes says that it has come across a program which silently used more than half of a user's computer power to perform the complex calculations required to generate the virtual currency, whose value has skyrocketed this year to around $1,000.
Adam Kujawa at Malwarebytes says that the move is one step on from the typical "Potentially Unwanted Programs" which offer browser toolbars and search agents that capture user data and pass it back to the companies, which then use that to serve adverts.
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg343161#msg343161))
In Bitcoin's Orbit Rival Virtual Currencies Vie for Acceptance (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/in-bitcoins-orbit-rival-virtual-currencies-vie-for-acceptance/?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fbusiness%2Findex.jsonp)-Arizona Hot (December 01, 2013, 03:57 AM)
Wonder how much longer until...
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg343175#msg343175))-40hz (December 01, 2013, 06:58 AM)
Bitcoin is a useful way to exchange money, but what if you could do other things with it? If bitcoiners could use it to issue shares, bonds and IOUs, or even to create alternative currencies atop bitcoins, they could add even more value to this innovative cryptocurrency. Bitcoinx, a community wanting to “democratize finance,” is hoping to facilitate just that, with a concept called “colored coins”.
Colored coins is a concept designed to be layered on top of Bitcoin, creating a new set of information about coins being exchanged. Using colored coins, bitcoins could be “colored” with specific attributes. This effectively turns them into tokens, which can be used to represent anything.
Hopefully it won't burst before Renegade cashes out and retires as a millionaire! :Thmbsup:-40hz (December 01, 2013, 06:58 AM)
Bitcoin mining malware could be hidden in app, security researchers warn (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/02/bitcoin-mining-malwarebytes-app-pc)-wraith808 (December 02, 2013, 10:24 AM)
^ Oh, I wasn't implying that it *was* malware in and of itself; just like a lot of other programs that get labeled as such, it's in the use. And on that point, when someone does install a miner on your machine using your CPU to make money, that use of it becomes malware. And it's interesting in this fact. Just like the other forms of malware which are ways to get money (by taking your credit card and bank numbers, or encrypting your files so you can be held for ransom), this is worthy of reporting/being informed of for that very reason. It's just we're keeping bitcoin confined to one thread, so I did that with this. Perhaps I shouldn't have so it will get a wider audience, but ...-wraith808 (December 02, 2013, 03:46 PM)
But even then, when you download free software from somewhere, especially if it's not been broadly vetted, you do need to read the license. Now, the wording in some is rather terse or obtuse, but it's still "fair warning".-Renegade (December 02, 2013, 03:56 PM)
I just have little sympathy for people that install everything and anything then whine about it.-Renegade (December 02, 2013, 03:56 PM)
But even then, when you download free software from somewhere, especially if it's not been broadly vetted, you do need to read the license. Now, the wording in some is rather terse or obtuse, but it's still "fair warning".-Renegade (December 02, 2013, 03:56 PM)
Legalese is never to be construed as fair anything, and I'll be damned if I'll ever waste an entire second of my life reading that level of convoluted bullshit. I simply don't care what someone's vampiric lawyers thinks is a clever way of phrasing their excuses for trying to rape me. I shred any piece of software I use to be sure it actually does do precisely what I feel it is to be doing.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2013, 05:38 PM)
I just have little sympathy for people that install everything and anything then whine about it.-Renegade (December 02, 2013, 03:56 PM)
:D Me either ... I just have a unique way of enforcing what's allowed on my computer. ;)-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2013, 05:38 PM)
Kid holding Send Bitcoin sign on ESPN GameDay gets $24K in donations-Arizona Hot (December 03, 2013, 08:29 PM)
it's still a definite win for Renegade's "One should tryout Bitcoins" side of the fence.-Stoic Joker (December 04, 2013, 11:18 AM)
Looks interesting. I've read some articles on mining bitcoins, but I'll need to dig deeper into it. Any recommendations?-Attronarch (December 04, 2013, 09:57 AM)
it's still a definite win for Renegade's "One should tryout Bitcoins" side of the fence.-Stoic Joker (December 04, 2013, 11:18 AM)
Yup. And I sincerely hope he'll get the chance to say "Told ya so 40hz!" ;D-40hz (December 04, 2013, 12:44 PM)
If you saw my finances, you'd know that I'm already thinking that.-Renegade (December 09, 2013, 06:30 AM)
Plan B is a weekly talk show contemplating the future and present of Bitcoin. With insights for the novice, shop talk for the expert, and opinionated discussion for the interested observer of bitcoin and related technologies.
The bitcoin crash of 2013 - Don't you feel silly now? (http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-bitcoin-crash-20131207,0,7011276.story#axzz2n38CnGRq)-Arizona Hot (December 11, 2013, 12:29 PM)
Why would I want to use a bit coin?-bit (December 09, 2013, 02:29 PM)
Bitcoins are limited in supply so they are deflationary (increase in value - gain purchasing power) whereas fiat is unlimited and inflationary (you lose purchasing power over time).-Renegade (December 11, 2013, 10:49 PM)
The real question is, "When you have the option to use bitcoins (or any decentralised, open source crypto currency), why would you ever want to use fiat?"-Renegade (December 11, 2013, 10:49 PM)
Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency-Renegade (December 12, 2013, 07:32 AM)
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.-tomos (December 12, 2013, 09:23 AM)
Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency-Renegade (December 12, 2013, 07:32 AM)
I'm not sure I understand: what would being a 'world reserve crypto currency' involve?
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.-tomos (December 12, 2013, 09:23 AM)
A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency that is held in significant quantities by governments and institutions as part of their foreign exchange reserves, and that is commonly used in international transactions.
A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency that is held in significant quantities by people as part of their savings, and that is commonly used in transactions.
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.-tomos (December 12, 2013, 09:23 AM)
That's actually a great resource; you just have to realize that unlike fiat, the reserve is not held by one group. Because BC is the anchor for the trading in all of the other CCs, that's why he refers to it in that manner. At least, that was my understanding.-wraith808 (December 12, 2013, 10:38 AM)
Why would I want to use a bit coin? It seems unsanitary, and they're not even real gold.-bit (December 09, 2013, 02:29 PM)
Payment processors charge 2~5% on every transaction. ... Bla Bla Bla-Renegade (December 11, 2013, 10:49 PM)
When the FBI seizes millions of dollars in cash from some warehouse at the heart of an urban drug cartel, the money winds up in a government building somewhere and eventually finds its way into a government bank account, where it helps finance all sorts of government stuff, like the next FBI drug bust.The Ultimate Bitcoin Question Can the Feds Spend $3.3M in Seized Digital Currency? (http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/10/silk-road-bust/)
But what happens when the feds bust an online drug marketplace and confiscate millions of dollars in bitcoins, the wildly popular digital currency that doesn’t exactly align with the government’s way of doing things — and so often serves as a convenient means of money laundering? What will become of the $3.3 million in bitcoins the FBI seized after shutting down the Silk Road early last week — not to mention the $80 million or so in bitcoins they’ve yet to seize from the personal account of the man who allegedly ran the online drug bazaar?
Here's a history of Bitcoin infographic. It is very large.
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/the-definitive-history-of-bitcoin-infographic.jpg
Not hot linking it for obvious reasons.-Renegade (December 16, 2013, 07:29 AM)
BTProof
Trusted timestamping on the Bitcoin blockchain
What is trusted timestamping?
Trusted timestamping allows to prove you held a document, some information or a file at some specific point in time, in a way that can't be forged. Read more at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping).
Why Bitcoin Will Never Be a Currency—in 2 Charts - Matthew O'Brien (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/12/why-bitcoin-will-never-be-a-currency-in-2-charts/282364/)
More argument.-Arizona Hot (December 17, 2013, 11:50 AM)
I'm actually a bit stunned how bad that article is. It's from Matthew O'Brien, a senior associate editor at The Atlantic covering business and economics. He doesnt even acknowledge that there are different schools of economic thought. I'm even wondering was the guy just trying to troll a bit, and upset as many Bitcoin fans as possible ...-tomos (December 17, 2013, 03:45 PM)
How could one make a site like donationcoder enabling donations with bitcoins ?
For example a download site for homebrew game developers which allowed payments / donations whenever someone downloads digital productions-kilele (December 20, 2013, 06:35 AM)
How could one make a site like donationcoder enabling donations with bitcoins ?
For example a download site for homebrew game developers which allowed payments / donations whenever someone downloads digital productions-kilele (December 20, 2013, 06:35 AM)
The simplest way would be to just show an address, either in plain text or as a QR code. People scan the code in their wallet application, send, done: bitcoins are delivered.
Blockchain.info offer a simple donation button maker, ready to be cut & pasted on a web page, that generate a different address every time (to complicate things a bit to whom want to try to see how much bitcoins the receiver have accumulated) and display a QR code.
Or, a payment processor like BitPay can be used, to let users pay in bitcoins and receive the corresponding amount in the legal tender of choice, with a minimal fee (1% per transaction or fixed 30$ monthly, if I remember correctly).
-Mark0 (December 20, 2013, 08:12 AM)
Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency-Renegade (December 12, 2013, 07:32 AM)
I'm not sure I understand: what would being a 'world reserve crypto currency' involve?
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.-tomos (December 12, 2013, 09:23 AM)
Basically, BTC is sort of the ‘world reserve currency’ of cryptocurrencies.
The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"--which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants--becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. - Paul Krugman, 1998
:)-Mark0 (December 23, 2013, 02:25 PM)
Economist Paul Krugman on why he's not a fan of bitcoin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/23/opinion/krugman-bits-and-barbarism.html-mouser (December 23, 2013, 01:51 PM)
Bitcoin seems to derive its appeal from more or less the same sources [as of gold-backed currencies],
[...]
But don’t let the fancy trappings fool you: What’s really happening is a determined march to the days when money meant stuff you could jingle in your purse.
See elsewhere [...]ah go on - give us a link :D-TaoPhoenix (December 23, 2013, 03:08 PM)
"Sometimes a clue is more tantalizing. If you didn't feel like a 12 second we search, then you didn't care about the issue anyway!" (This is often what I feel about obscure Linux news.)See elsewhere [...]ah go on - give us a link :D-TaoPhoenix (December 23, 2013, 03:08 PM)-tomos (December 23, 2013, 03:20 PM)
Funny, but I in my Amateur Armchair vehemently disagree.-TaoPhoenix (December 23, 2013, 02:55 PM)
The mining window is closing as it is getting increasingly difficult to do (unless you have really serious dedicated hardware). When I first started I was getting over 10,000 coins a day ... Now I'm lucky to break 100.-Stoic Joker (December 24, 2013, 07:38 PM)
The mining window is closing as it is getting increasingly difficult to do (unless you have really serious dedicated hardware). When I first started I was getting over 10,000 coins a day ... Now I'm lucky to break 100.-Stoic Joker (December 24, 2013, 07:38 PM)
Bingo StoicJoker.
That's the big flaw that keeps bothering me. "Look, here's a new crypto-currency and only a hundred people know about it! Nice advantage to us! Then later when it gets popular the algo will slow down and no one can get much more!"
Reminds me of the day when I cared about Magic the Gathering and bought a pizza with two Sengir Vampires! :D (The clerk made a note of the sale and said he would pay back his register.)-TaoPhoenix (December 25, 2013, 12:32 AM)
Economist Paul Krugman on why he's not a fan of bitcoin:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/23/opinion/krugman-bits-and-barbarism.html-mouser (December 23, 2013, 01:51 PM)
ATM I'm not trading COYE, but I'll trade you 10 of my BEK for 20 of yours. Just send me multiples of 10 BEK and keep multiples of 10 BEK for yourself and we'll call the deal done. Send to this address: BndanZXsyDjnrP8dkwgbo87jExvk96tj8z ;D-RenegadeMind link=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375010.msg4393471#msg4393471 date=1389208453
Ill take you up on that trade! Traded you 2000 BEK for 1000 BEK, great deal! :)-artiface link=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375010.msg4394106#msg4394106 date=1389210538
Bitcoin Is Evil-KrugTroll
However, Mr Krugman is right about bitcon being evil, at least for socialists. Bitcoin threatens socialist economies, central banks and all government monopolies on money. It is a libertarian tool, so all socialists should hate it.-Roger McKinney - Broken Arrow, OK
The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"--which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants--becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's. - Paul Krugman, 1998
:)-Mark0 (December 23, 2013, 02:25 PM)
The mining window is closing as it is getting increasingly difficult to do (unless you have really serious dedicated hardware). When I first started I was getting over 10,000 coins a day ... Now I'm lucky to break 100.-Stoic Joker (December 24, 2013, 07:38 PM)
The mining window is closing as it is getting increasingly difficult to do (unless you have really serious dedicated hardware). When I first started I was getting over 10,000 coins a day ... Now I'm lucky to break 100.-Stoic Joker (December 24, 2013, 07:38 PM)
Bingo StoicJoker.
That's the big flaw that keeps bothering me. "Look, here's a new crypto-currency and only a hundred people know about it! Nice advantage to us! Then later when it gets popular the algo will slow down and no one can get much more!"
Reminds me of the day when I cared about Magic the Gathering and bought a pizza with two Sengir Vampires! :D (The clerk made a note of the sale and said he would pay back his register.)-TaoPhoenix (December 25, 2013, 12:32 AM)
Andreas Antonopoulos - blows me away all the time.-Renegade (January 12, 2014, 07:46 AM)
Andreas Antonopoulos - blows me away all the time.-Renegade (January 12, 2014, 07:46 AM)
a big plus one there Ren :up:
I've only watched the first 30 mins yet, and want to watch it again -- there's a lot in there.
I've listened to, I think, four videos by him -- each about different aspects of Bitcoin, and he really is *very* good. He's got great vision -- but with his feet firmly on the ground. It's refreshing to hear someone who supports bitcoin say that the US dollar is in reasonable shape (for a fiat currency).
He's also the only one I've heard or read so far who addresses the questions I had about possible problems with bitcoin. (I'll have to try find a suitable video by him on the practical aspects of Bitcoin to post here.)-tomos (January 13, 2014, 02:04 PM)
A Stealth Address is a new type of Bitcoin address and related
scriptPubKey/transaction generation scheme that allowers payees to
publish a single, fixed, address that payors can send funds efficiently,
privately, reliably and non-interactively. Payors do not learn what
other payments have been made to the stealth address, and third-parties
learn nothing at all. (both subject to an adjustable anonymity set)
Overstock.com CEO attacks Krugman: “Hopefully Bitcoin will destroy central banking”
Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne discusses Bitcoin and the fears of central planning economist Paul Krugman who claims Bitcoin is evil.
Byrne says “Krugman did some great work before he went crazy” he then goes on to explain his hope that Bitcoin can destroy central banking.
Bitcoin—you know, that cryptocurrency you pretend you know all about at parties but secretly search on Wikipedia when you're drunk in the bathroom, has met its match. In a combination almost as perfect as chocolate and peanut butter, bacon and eggs, or water-based lube and silicone dildos, you can now purchase your spank videos with your fave digital currency. In December, Porn.com announced that it would now accept confidential bitcoin payments for its premium services, and Bitcoin users quickly shot up to 10 percent of all sales. That was just the beginning of the love affair, because after the Bitcoiners of Reddit proudly announced their acquisition just 15 days ago—in a synergistic explosion of Moms Bang Teens and cryptography— bitcoin now accounts for a staggering quarter of all Porn.com sales.
Porn.com's current owners aren't too invested in seeing how this whole digital currency phase works out, though. They're already reportedly looking to sell the domain for $50 million in, well, Bitcoin. It's the circle of life. And it jerks us all.
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/20/1390229373592/aec83578-df47-4eae-9992-58f0f4ddec92-460x276.png)
It's bobsleigh time: Jamaican team raises $25,000 in Dogecoin (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/20/jamaican-bobsled-team-raises-dogecoin-winter-olympics)-wraith808 (January 20, 2014, 11:43 AM)
How do I get started with Dogecoin?
howtodoge.com (http://howtodoge.com/) provides some great tutorials on how to get started using Dogecoin!
Romanian Billionaire Saves OpenBSD
Reality trumps paranoid delusions.-Renegade (January 20, 2014, 02:23 PM)
Reality trumps paranoid delusions.-Renegade (January 20, 2014, 02:23 PM)
Ya might wanna rethink that statement :-\. Money laundering, crime, tax evasion, et al., have been around - i.e., reality - a lot longer than even the concept of bitcoin and other cyber currencies. Evil or good is not the realm of any currency medium, just the uses to which it is applied. To paraphrase an old saying, "What Man can create, Man can pervert." :o :P-barney (January 20, 2014, 09:34 PM)
Reality trumps paranoid delusions.-Renegade (January 20, 2014, 02:23 PM)
Ya might wanna rethink that statement :-\. Money laundering, crime, tax evasion, et al., have been around - i.e., reality - a lot longer than even the concept of bitcoin and other cyber currencies. Evil or good is not the realm of any currency medium, just the uses to which it is applied. To paraphrase an old saying, "What Man can create, Man can pervert." :o :P-barney (January 20, 2014, 09:34 PM)
I think that's Ren's point. The MSM is trying to spin crypto as causal when it neither is nor can be.-Stoic Joker (January 20, 2014, 09:56 PM)
1. Sheets
2. Cell Phone Accessories
3. A/V Accessories
4. Appliances
5. Computer Accessories
6. Computers
7. Men’s Shoes
8. Hard Drives
9. Bedroom Furniture
10. Keyboards & Mice
11. Men’s Watches
12. Computer Hardware
13. Storage & Blank Media
14. Living Room Furniture
15. Shirts
16. Perfumes & Fragrances
17. Networking
18. Cookware
19. Memory Cards
20. Towels
21. Area Rugs
22. Computer Components
23. Decorative Accessories
24. Fiction Books
25. Lighting & Ceiling Fans
Terrorism! Drugs! Online Assassinations! Money laundering! Tax evasion!
No... This is what bitcoins are really used for:-Renegade (January 23, 2014, 04:53 AM)
But it doesn't.
The other things we used to generate money, for instance mining gold, had an actual use other than just generating money. Actually, the original function of gold (making shiny things women like, using in alloys to make rust resistant weapons etc.) predated the use as legal tender.
This one doesn't have another function. You just burn electricity, and assure yourself that you'll be paid for it. No intrinsic purpose whatsoever.-eleman (January 23, 2014, 09:42 PM)
Gold has no intrinsic value. The only value is what people place on it. When people mine gold, they use power for all sorts of things, under the assurance that they will be paid for it, out of the fact that people want it.-wraith808 (January 23, 2014, 10:18 PM)
Just because someone is attracted to something doesn't define an intrinsic value. I think intrinsic value is pretty much universally taken to be characterized in terms of the value that something has “in itself,” or “for its own sake,” or “as such,” or “in its own right.” Gold has no value in and of itself, other than as you say as a shiny bauble. Therefore, gold has no intrinsic value.-wraith808 (January 24, 2014, 12:46 AM)
What would Bitcoin hashes go for, if it weren't for the implicit agreement that they are a medium of exchange?-eleman (January 24, 2014, 03:44 AM)
What would Bitcoin hashes go for, if it weren't for the implicit agreement that they are a medium of exchange?-eleman (January 24, 2014, 03:44 AM)
the same as todays dollar - and all other money I know of. Not an argument against Bitcoin, unless you also use it as an argument against money as we know it today.-tomos (January 24, 2014, 06:40 AM)
Well, I'd also raise the same argument against the dollar, or peso, or lira, or euro, whatever, if it did needlessly contribute to global warming. Sure they do (dead trees), but not at the scale applicable to bitcoin mining I reckon.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 06:46 AM)
I wouldn't discount the shine as a source of value. Value is defined as the likelihood to get something else in return. I could imagine shiny rocks buying services to some caveman in a cave bordello. In other words you could use it in barter, even before the invention of money. I can't imagine that for random strings of numbers.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 03:44 AM)
Well, I'd also raise the same argument against the dollar, or peso, or lira, or euro, whatever, if it did needlessly contribute to global warming. Sure they do (dead trees), but not at the scale applicable to bitcoin mining I reckon.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 06:46 AM)
But they do. Maybe not as directly... but they do. It's *all* digital these days, truth be told. The paper money that we hold is just a representation of digital systems in place, especially in this day and age of fractional reserve banking, quantitative easing, and creative accounting.-wraith808 (January 24, 2014, 07:13 AM)
You keep harping on how gold has intrinsic value based on the shine, i.e. from your last post:I wouldn't discount the shine as a source of value. Value is defined as the likelihood to get something else in return. I could imagine shiny rocks buying services to some caveman in a cave bordello. In other words you could use it in barter, even before the invention of money. I can't imagine that for random strings of numbers.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 03:44 AM)
But now you've gotten yourself in a logical hole. Just because you can't imagine cryptographic strings being worth much- apparently many others can. And as such, by your definition, doesn't that give it 'intrinsic value'? After all, people want it, right?-wraith808 (January 24, 2014, 07:13 AM)
What would Bitcoin hashes go for, if it weren't for the implicit agreement that they are a medium of exchange?-eleman (January 24, 2014, 03:44 AM)
the same as todays dollar - and all other money I know of. Not an argument against Bitcoin, unless you also use it as an argument against money as we know it today.-tomos (January 24, 2014, 06:40 AM)
Well, I'd also raise the same argument against the dollar, or peso, or lira, or euro, whatever, if it did needlessly contribute to global warming. Sure they do (dead trees), but not at the scale applicable to bitcoin mining I reckon.
Does someone have solid statistics on this? i.e. you get x dollars worth of bitcoins after burning y dollars worth of electricity on a rig that cost z dollars to build.
That would really bring our discussion to some solid footing here.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 06:46 AM)
You're deliberately missing the point. I claim that gold has a value regardless of the assumption of it being a medium of exchange. Bitcoin hashes do not have that VALUE REGARDLESS OF THE ASSUMPTION OF THEM BEING A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE. See the phrase "in and of itself".
Anyway, this is slowly evolving into a flame war, and I don't want to be a jerk (I feel I will be in my next post, if I'm not already). So I won't reply anymore.-eleman (January 24, 2014, 07:22 AM)
when I replied there I didnt realise that was still your main focus. It is unfortunate that there is this waste involved. It would have been great it it could have been doing something useful. But that's not the case - and cannot be changed in retrospect. And I dont think it's going to stop the forward march of bitcoin.-tomos (January 24, 2014, 07:41 AM)
when I replied there I didnt realise that was still your main focus. It is unfortunate that there is this waste involved. It would have been great it it could have been doing something useful. But that's not the case - and cannot be changed in retrospect. And I dont think it's going to stop the forward march of bitcoin.-tomos (January 24, 2014, 07:41 AM)
But is that waste? It's providing a very real service, i.e. taking fiat out of the hands of the rich, and putting it into the hands of all of us. That's not a waste to me.-wraith808 (January 24, 2014, 08:22 AM)
But if it became popular/usable as a currency - it might, in & of itself, be the regulation for the money-system that the governments these days are failing to implement.-tomos (January 24, 2014, 02:50 AM)
I try to avoid this bitcoin stuff because the whole world of finance seems completely insane and make-believe to me.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
However, i am somewhat interested in the technology issues.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
But what I think eleman touched on which is odd about bitcoin is that, if i'm understanding it correctly, one of the key ideas of bitcoin is that by design it MUST require huge amounts of otherwise-useless cpu cycles, in order to simulate/create scarcity.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
It's a key property you have to have scores of high-powered computers doing nothing but churning through useless operations 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to do "work" that is of no value other than to purposefully slow down the generation of these digital tokens.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
But now the interesting technological question that comes to mind is, could you flip that?-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
Could you make a new crypto/digital currency where the work required to virtually "mine" such things was actually PRODUCTIVE USEFUL work?-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
First non-hashcash proof-of-work in cryptocurrency, pure prime number based proof-of-work
Abstract
A new type of proof-of-work based on searching for prime numbers is introduced in peer-to-peer cryptocurrency designs. Three types of prime chains known as Cunningham chain of first kind, Cunningham chain of second kind and bi-twin chain are qualified as proof-of-work. Prime chain is linked to block hash to preserve the security property of Nakamoto’s Bitcoin, while a continuous difficulty evaluation scheme is designed to allow prime chain to act as adjustable-difficulty proof-of-work in a Bitcoin like cryptocurrency.
...
Primecoin is the first cryptocurrency on the market with non-hashcash proof-of-work, generating additional potential scientific value from the mining work. This research is meant to pave the way for other proof-of-work types with diverse scientific computing values to emerge.
Like a crypto/digital coin which was generated by successfully solving protein folding problems, etc.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
Such a thing would still enforce rarity/scarcity by requiring massive cpu cycles -- but those cycles themselves would be producing useful work.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 07:32 AM)
The Bitcoin protocol is designed in such a way that new bitcoins are created at a fixed rate. This makes Bitcoin mining a very competitive business. When more miners join the network, it becomes increasingly difficult to make a profit and miners must seek efficiency to cut their operating costs. No central authority or developer has any power to control or manipulate the system to increase their profits. Every Bitcoin node in the world will reject anything that does not comply with the rules it expects the system to follow.
Bitcoins are created at a decreasing and predictable rate. The number of new bitcoins created each year is automatically halved over time until bitcoin issuance halts completely with a total of 21 million bitcoins in existence. At this point, Bitcoin miners will probably be supported exclusively by numerous small transaction fees.
Why do bitcoins have value?
Bitcoins have value because they are useful as a form of money. Bitcoin has the characteristics of money (durability, portability, fungibility, scarcity, divisibility, and recognizability) based on the properties of mathematics rather than relying on physical properties (like gold and silver) or trust in central authorities (like fiat currencies).
You've made some interesting points Ren, but I'm not sure how to square them with the stuff I read.
Here is the (official?) bitcoin faq page (http://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-are-bitcoins-created), emphasis mine:
The Bitcoin protocol is designed in such a way that new bitcoins are created at a fixed rate. This makes Bitcoin mining a very competitive business. When more miners join the network, it becomes increasingly difficult to make a profit and miners must seek efficiency to cut their operating costs. No central authority or developer has any power to control or manipulate the system to increase their profits. Every Bitcoin node in the world will reject anything that does not comply with the rules it expects the system to follow.
Bitcoins are created at a decreasing and predictable rate. The number of new bitcoins created each year is automatically halved over time until bitcoin issuance halts completely with a total of 21 million bitcoins in existence. At this point, Bitcoin miners will probably be supported exclusively by numerous small transaction fees.
Why do bitcoins have value?
Bitcoins have value because they are useful as a form of money. Bitcoin has the characteristics of money (durability, portability, fungibility, scarcity, divisibility, and recognizability) based on the properties of mathematics rather than relying on physical properties (like gold and silver) or trust in central authorities (like fiat currencies).
To me that (and other discussions i read when searching for "bitcoin + scarcity") seems to confirm my point -- that it is a central element of design that huge amounts of cpu have to be churned through, solely because it is essential that one not be able to quickly mine coins. That's the whole point of the scarcity thing, which still seems key to me. The design of the system simply does not allow allow a situation where mining coins is energy cheap and efficient. By design if someone found a way to mine the coins for half the energy cost, it would simply mean that the next day everyone would be running twice as many computers to mine bitcoins.
In fact, the scarcity-by-design and spread-of-mining-over-all-miners nature means that that the amount of cpu resources and energy costs will ALWAYS rise to a cost near the expected value of the coins. If you think that a coin will be worth $1000 then you would be willing to spend a little less than $1000 on your energy bills and hardware costs to mine a coin (or spent that much money infecting people's computers with bots to do so). The system is designed to force people to churn through that cpu time and energy cost because by design it must -- those extra cpu cycles are not benefiting anyone they are simply there to impose an (artificial) cost on users in order to enforce a limited supply.
My point was that it doesn't have to be that way. You could find a way to keep exactly the same properties (of scarcity, limited supply, protection against attack, etc.) but have the cpu work required for mining actually be useful, in-and-of-itself, for other purposes.
Thanks for the links to primecoin -- i look forward to reading about it.-mouser (January 24, 2014, 08:42 PM)
The Rand is Dying Can Bitcoin Save Us?
A perfect storm has formed and the Rand continues its plummet.
The key factors contributing to the decline: a balance of trade deficit, poor economic data globally and a mining sector hit particularly hard by weak global resource markets.
South Africa, as one of the ‘BRICS’, was often touted as an emerging market to watch. These days it finds itself in less auspicious company; the so-called ‘Fragile Five’ (India, Indonesia, Brazil and Turkey).
The economic fundamentals are poor and citizens are left with few options. Most feel powerless. With few options available many are forced to watch their real wealth, denominated in Rand, evaporate.
Head of Russia’s Largest Bank Backs Bitcoin, Again
Sberbank may not be a household name in the west, but it just happens to be the third-largest bank in Europe.
It’s also the biggest bank in Russia and eastern Europe, with nearly half a trillion dollars in assets and a workforce of 300,000.
The bank is owned by the Central Bank of Russia and it is headed by German Gref, who served as the Russian Minister of Economic and Trade from 2000 to 2007. Gref’s tenure was marked by a period of economic reform and liberalization. Judging by his recent statements, he is still open minded when it comes to monetary issues.
Truthfully, I can see why- for the same reason I don't use direct deposit in many cases. Leaves a money trail that can be reversed. Tracing is fine... it's the reversal that alarms me.-wraith808 (January 29, 2014, 02:26 PM)
I'm not OK with tracing. It's none of my business what other people do with their money, and it's nobody else's business what I do with mine.-Renegade (January 29, 2014, 10:49 PM)
BTC robs the authoritarians of the possibility of knowing what people have, and further robs the kleptocrats of the possibility of stealing people's money.[/b][/size] (Oh certainly they create laws to call their theft "legal", but it's still theft.)-Renegade (March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM)
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg349941#msg349941))
Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox goes offline amid turmoil (http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/02/25/mt-gox-offline/5801093/)
You were saying...?-Arizona Hot (February 25, 2014, 12:19 PM)
When it froze withdrawals earlier this month, the company cited a software bug that allowed people to "use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of bitcoins to a bitcoin wallet did not occur when in fact it did occur."
"The problem we have identified is not limited to MtGox, and affects all transactions where Bitcoins are being sent to a third party," Mt. Gox added in a statement on its website.
You were saying...?and you are saying ... ? :P-Arizona Hot (February 25, 2014, 12:19 PM)
if the powers that be really wanted to hurt Bitcoin, right now all they'd need to do is shrug and say "Oh well!" about the theft - and decline to get involved or open an investigation...Looks like Japan has already decided to do exactly that.
Consider: It's private and anonymous by design. There's no transaction trails. No provable ownership of accounts. No direct path of responsibility. No insurance or regulatory requirements in place. No laws broken...so where could the regulators or police possibly step in to assist?-40hz (February 25, 2014, 02:04 PM)
Bitcoin is not a unit of account as no price of goods and services is set in Bitcoin unit nor it ever will.
And given its volatility all who accept it convert it right back into $/€/¥
And it isn't safe given hacking of it.
I'm not a bitcoin apologist. As with any currency it has upsides and downsides. You have to make a risk assessment and go in with your blinders off. But I hate so called experts spreading FUD with a stamp of their expertise. I hate that on anything, truth be told.-wraith808 (March 13, 2014, 12:13 AM)
Because screw paypal,visa,mastercard!!! :P-drummerjdb (April 24, 2014, 04:52 PM)
I need to set up a bitcoin account somewhere for receiving donations -- Renegade was telling me how to do it but I dropped the ball. Stay tuned.-mouser (April 25, 2014, 11:09 AM)
The second approach is somewhat different: create a mechanism for generating new hash functions, and make the space of functions that it generates so large that the kind of computer best suited to processing them is by definition completely generalized, ie. a CPU. This approach gets close to being “provably ASIC resistant” and thus more future-proof, rather than focusing on specific aspects like memory, but it too is imperfect; there will always be at least some parts of a CPU that will prove to be extraneous in such an algorithm and can be removed for efficiency. However, the quest is not for perfect ASIC resistance; rather, the challenge is to achieve what we can call “economic ASIC resistance” – building an ASIC should not be worth it.
Speaking of Bitcoin... If you don't know it already, I recommend checking out PurseIO (https://purse.io) (no referral!).
It provide two services:
- A way to spend bitcoins on Amazon, with an incentive/discount
- A way for who haven't bitcoins to acquire them, using a familiar environment (Amazon!), paying with a CC, for a premium
It's basically a marketplace for Amazon whishlists, and it works perfectly.
You create a wishlist on Amazon, copy&paste the link to create an offer on PurseIO, and select the markup that will be your discount, and put the corresponding bitcoins in escrow. It takes 2 minutes.
Then if/when someone find the price & markup reasonable, they'll buy the item from Amazon for you. When you'll receive it and confirm, the bitcoins will be released.
I just tried some days ago with something small (a Chromecast), with a 16% discount, and it all went perfectly.
No need to wait for Amazon to accept bitcoins! ;D-Mark0 (June 30, 2014, 04:49 AM)
Actually, I'm amazed governments weren't in on this from day one. What an ideal way to fund covert activities and black ops. Or handlebribescampaign contributions. They've turned a blind eye toward (or at the very least tolerated) numbered Swiss bank accounts, numerous Istituto per le Opere di Religione shenanigans, and offshore banks for that very reason. So much easier to transact with than blood diamonds too.
Maybe these "democratic" governments need to rethink their position on crypto-currencies. Ya think? :P-40hz (June 30, 2014, 08:48 AM)
Actually, I'm amazed governments weren't in on this from day one. What an ideal way to fund covert activities and black ops. Or handlebribescampaign contributions. They've turned a blind eye toward (or at the very least tolerated) numbered Swiss bank accounts, numerous Istituto per le Opere di Religione shenanigans, and offshore banks for that very reason. So much easier to transact with than blood diamonds too.
Maybe these "democratic" governments need to rethink their position on crypto-currencies. Ya think? :P-40hz (June 30, 2014, 08:48 AM)
Paypal Freezes ProtonMail Campaign Funds
July 1, 2014 Andy Yen News & Articles
This morning, we received an email and telephone call from PayPal notifying us that our account has been restricted pending further review. At this time, it is not possible for ProtonMail to receive or send funds through PayPal. No attempt was made by PayPal to contact us before freezing our account, and no notice was given.
2014-06-30_202409
Like many others, we have all heard the PayPal horror stories, but didn’t actually think it would happen to us on our campaign since PayPal promised, very recently, to improve their policies. Unfortunately, it seems those were hollow promises as ProtonMail is now the latest in a long string of crowdfunding campaigns to be hit with account freezes. (For examples, just look here, here, and here).
While the $275,000 ProtonMail has raised in the past 2 weeks is a large amount, it pales in comparison to many other crowdfunding campaigns that have raised sums in excess of $1,000,000 so we can’t help but wonder why ProtonMail was singled out. When we pressed the PayPal representative on the phone for further details, he questioned whether ProtonMail is legal and if we have government approval to encrypt emails. We are not sure which government PayPal is referring to, but even the 4th Amendment of the US constitution guarantees:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures….”
It seems PayPal is trying to come up with ANY excuse they can to prevent us from receiving funds.
2014-06-30_205105
As a result, we have disabled PayPal as a payment option on our campaign page, but it is still possible contribute with credit card and Bitcoin. Please help us get the word out there as by bringing attention to this issue, we may be able to convince PayPal to do the right thing. And if anybody from PayPal is listening, we’ve emailed and called today, please get in touch with us as soon as possible.
Ahem... just in case anyone still doesn't understand the need for Bitcoin...-Renegade (June 30, 2014, 11:06 PM)
But what happens when governments do a Mt. Gox on the rest of the Bitcoin exchanges? :tellme:-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
Who do the exchanges call for help then? The vast and well-organized libertarian-anarcho community? :-\-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
Bitcoin doesn't continue in spite of government. It continues at the sufferance of governments, which are still examining Bitcoin for ways it can be turned to their advantage. If it proves useful, they'll co-opt it. If not (and it becomes a threat) they'll snuff it without so much as breaking a sweat.-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
It continues at the sufferance of governments-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
Wish it were otherwise. But as long as you're still running on their fiber, wires, airwaves, and backbone - you're their pooch. :(-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
Another addition - Newegg:
https://twitter.com/newegg/status/483943309564735489
:Thmbsup:
:'(http://www.newegg.com/bitcoin?cm_mmc=SNC-Twitter-_-Bitcoin-_-NA-_-NA-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 10:24 AM)
I think there's more "geek marketing" lurking behind that "decision" than anything else.-40hz (July 01, 2014, 10:54 AM)
The bandwagon is rolling by, and companies are jumping on. :) :Thmbsup-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 11:15 AM)
That you see the nature of the beast, and are then so skeptical of something that stands an excellent chance of diminishing that beast... that just always amazes me.-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 09:24 AM)
Brown or otherwise. ;)-40hz (July 01, 2014, 11:28 AM)
Kuwait finance firm suggests trading oil in bitcoins
Oil producing countries, particularly in the GCC, could benefit if they would use bitcoin in oil trading, instead of dollars, Markaz’ research department argues.
There have been a number of proposals in the past to trade oil and gas in another currency than the US dollar, for political as well as for monetary reasons. Some OPEC member states not particularly friendly to the US, whenever there was a crisis of some sort, have been making repeated noise about denominating their price for hydrocarbons in another than the US currency, but have never quite managed to agree on an alternative.
The most active countries today that pursue a no-dollars-for-oil policy are Iran, which encourages all trading partners to pay for oil in a currency other than the US dollar, and Russia, whose flagship company Gazprom, the largest extractor of natural gas in the world, recently told oil importers from China and Japan that they should pay their bills not with greenbacks, but preferably with yen, yuan or even ruble.
But a new report (Disruptive Technology: Bitcoins, Currency Reinvented?) recently issued by Kuwait-based investment banking and asset management firm Kuwait Financial Centre, also known as Markaz, even goes a step further: Oil producing countries, particularly in the GCC, could benefit if they would use bitcoin in oil trading, Markaz’ research department argues.
This comes a bit as a surprise, since bitcoin as an unregulated and — as of now — highly volatile cryptocurrency, has no manifestation other than bits and bytes stored somewhere in the virtual space and seems not to be the most reliable means of trade for the world’s most sought-after commodity. The idea is not new, though: There has been an Internet debate about one year ago on what would happen if the Opec would adopt bitcoin as transaction currency. The outcome: Firstly, the US would certainly not sit and watch the dollar losing its petrocurrency status and would do whatever needs to be done to defend the greenback; secondly, China wouldn’t allow it as it wants the yuan to be a petrocurrency as well; thirdly, in the moment oil and gas gets priced in bitcoins, it would be exposed to the cryptocurrency’s extreme volatility with massive consequences and fiscal uncertainties for petroleum-exporting countries. Speculators had a wide and anonymous field to play.
So what did Markaz actually mean? They basically said that using bitcoins would save payment transaction costs for oil exporting countries, because sending and receiving bitcoins of any denomination is just a matter of seconds and costs next to nothing. For the clearance of oil payments through conventional banks, exporting countries currently have to wait one to three days and pay the usual banking fees.
But just for saving some transaction time and costs, would the GCC, where the oil industry currently accounts for 90% of exports and 75% of government revenue, as per Markaz’ own research, really be wise to channel these massive money flows through bitcoin clearing houses, which are, as per their nature, unregulated, work with open source codes and can get — at recent history shows — easily hacked and digitally robbed? This is open for debate.
Before any barrel will ever be paid for in bitcoins, it will be the Chinese yuan that has taken on the role as the dollar’s challenger. China already pays Russia’s and Iran’s oil in yuan and is busy setting up yuan clearing houses in major financial centres all over the world to facilitate the global money flow of its currency. This is, for now, probably a much better solution until the world knows what will rally happen to bitcoin.
But what happens when governments do a Mt. Gox on the rest of the Bitcoin exchanges? :tellme:-40hz (July 01, 2014, 06:13 AM)
That's a very odd thing to say. Are you sure you know what happened at Mt. Gox? It was pretty simple - extremely bad management. It had nothing to do with government.
-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 09:24 AM)
Interesting (Ren vs. 40), I actually fall somewhere between these two schools of thought..
Who else wants popcorn?? :D
-------------------------------------
Crap, Ren got ahead of me...I was referring to 40hz's post above.-Stoic Joker (July 01, 2014, 12:13 PM)
That's a very odd thing to say. Are you sure you know what happened at Mt. Gox? It was pretty simple - extremely bad management.-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 09:24 AM)
Mt. Gox, AFAIK was shut down because DHS filed for "probable cause" that Mt. Gox was transferring money illegally.-40hz (July 01, 2014, 12:26 PM)
Also sorry if you don't want to chat with me any more about this.
I get that same response from a lot of people I know - although most of them seem to be self-professed "conservatives - and damn proud of it" types.
Guess the futher out on the distribution curve things get, the more they start acting and sounding the same.
Whoulda thunk? :)-40hz (July 01, 2014, 02:14 PM)
There's really nothing but us behaving badly towards each other. More often than not for no reason other than habit - and because "We can!"-40hz (July 01, 2014, 12:02 PM)
The vast majority of people are well-intentioned.But mostly inactive.-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 10:58 PM)
This is all somewhat OT anywaySeems to be begging the question. After all, this thread - topic statement notwithstanding - is about folk accepting/following new things/trends.-40hz (July 02, 2014, 12:47 AM)
The vast majority of people are well-intentioned.But mostly inactive.-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 10:58 PM)-barney (July 02, 2014, 01:02 AM)
This is all somewhat OT anywaySeems to be begging the question. After all, this thread - topic statement notwithstanding - is about folk accepting/following new things/trends.-40hz (July 02, 2014, 12:47 AM)
At any rate, the back-and-forth tween the two (2) of you is certainly entertaining, thought-provoking, and creative. The thought processes as displayed/evinced certainly require a bit of cogitation from the rest of us.-barney (July 02, 2014, 01:02 AM)
Decentralised exchange:And that shows me what? No evident links, no - well, minimal - explanation. In fact, not much at all other than a page w/o true purpose. Or is it a placeholder while the site is being established? Even that, no explanation beyond intuition that I do not possess at the moment.
http://blackhalo.info/
:o
Things are moving pretty fast now. The level of innovation and the speed of technology increase are accelerating.-Renegade (July 05, 2014, 12:00 AM)
And that shows me what? No evident links, no - well, minimal - explanation. In fact, not much at all other than a page w/o true purpose. Or is it a placeholder while the site is being established? Even that, no explanation beyond intuition that I do not possess at the moment.-barney (July 05, 2014, 01:11 AM)
Mt. Gox, AFAIK was shut down because DHS filed for "probable cause" that Mt. Gox was transferring money illegally.-40hz (July 01, 2014, 12:26 PM)
Your information is bad.-Renegade (July 01, 2014, 01:39 PM)
The US govt. stealing funds is a separate issue, though it did contribute to it.-Renegade (July 05, 2014, 09:10 PM)
Mt. Gox is in Japan, and the DHS has no authority there and can't force Japanese courts to be their thugs. (Theoretically... ;) )-Renegade (July 05, 2014, 09:10 PM)
Mt. Gox is in Japan, and the DHS has no authority there and can't force Japanese courts to be their thugs. (Theoretically... ;) )-Renegade (July 05, 2014, 09:10 PM)
About all I can say to that is: In addition to politics there is something called realpolitik.
If I had to place a bet (even in Bitcoins) I'd be inclined to give odds on the second rather than the first. "Ultima ratio regum" as the old saying (and present reality) goes.
;)-40hz (July 05, 2014, 11:19 PM)
Hey! Get your own schtick! Resident conspiracy theorist is mine~! :P ;D-Renegade (July 06, 2014, 01:23 AM)
Spain Forced To Impose Haircuts On Savers, Private Investors As Part Of Bailout Deal
Spain says to charge tax of 0.03 percent on bank deposits
The government and legal community may still be arguing over whether bitcoin can be defined as “money.” But the judge presiding over the landmark Silk Road drug case has declared that it’s at least close enough to get you locked up for money laundering.
In a ruling released Wednesday, Judge Katherine Forrest denied a motion by Ross Ulbricht, the 30-year-old alleged creator of the Silk Road billion-dollar online drug bazaar, to dismiss all criminal charges against him. Those charges include narcotics trafficking conspiracy, money laundering, and hacking conspiracy charges, as well as a “continuing criminal enterprise” charge that’s better known as the “kingpin” statute used to prosecute criminal gang and cartel leaders.
I’ll give $10 to @Free_Ross for each RT. If guilty, he’s a hero. If innocent, he needs help. http://freeross.org/ross-sends-messagephoto-from-prison/ …
But unexpectedly he asks the waiter to take away his cellphones, fearing Snowden-style eavesdropping. And then the scion of America’s most enduring banking family lets it fly: “I feel like citizens are fed up with banksters,” using a term the Occupy Wall Street crowd would surely approve. Politicians receive similar disdain: “We need to live in a more transparent, free democracy. The more secretive America becomes, the more dangerous it is.” The solution, Mellon says, is Bitcoin, and he’s invested $2 million to start an incubator for Bitcoin companies, convinced virtual currency will replace the dollar bill. “The banks are going to be scratching their heads,” he says, a smile encroaching on his high cheekbones.
...the digital currency has increased in prominence, prompting Moy to declare bitcoin “a disruptor to the traditional notions of currency” in May.
...
Why US bitcoin regulation is failing
Despite the promise of bitcoin technology, an unclear regulatory landscape makes it difficult for businesses in the US market to develop. At the heart of the problem, says Moy, is a lack of cohesive regulatory language that defines digital currency.
He said:
“Bitcoin is not just one thing. It’s not just currency, it’s not just a payment system, it’s a protocol – there’s multiple things that cross over into many different turfs of government.”
...
“Every agency has to look at bitcoin from the perspective of what their agency does. So the Commodities Futures Trading Commission looks at bitcoin as a commodity, because it complies with all the issues that commodities applies with. The Federal Trade Commission looks at this as a bartering issue, as a trading issue; the FEC looks at it from an investment perspective; the IRS looks at it as a taxable event.”
HUSTLER.com, the leader in adult entertainment, is offering an unprecedented level of member discretion thanks to a partnership with digital currency payment processor, GoCoin.
Starting today, anyone who pays for their HUSTLER.com subscription with digital currencies bitcoin, litecoin or dogecoin will receive a special lifetime membership for just $500. To take advantage of this exclusive offer, visit www.HUSTLER.com.
...
"It's well known that the adult entertainment industry is often an early adopter and driver of new technologies," said GoCoin Founder and CEO, Steve Beauregard. "HUSTLER is continuing this trend by embracing not only bitcoin, but other emerging digital currencies as well."
Purpose:
Bitcoin is one of the most impressive innovations of our lifetime. #lovebitcoin is about sharing and educating the world about the benefits and showcasing the passion. CAVIRTEX and Saucal believe in the spirit of Bitcoin are proud to sponsor this contest.
Rules:
- Record a video telling the world why you love bitcoin and upload it to YouTube or Instagram with the hashtag #lovebitcoin in the title.
- All videos will be automatically entered.
- Keep it short and sweet.
- Keep it classy (no swearing, no nudity, no racism, etc).
- Use the hashtag #lovebitcoin to create awareness and promote your video.
- Post a bitcoin public address in the video description so we know where to send the prize if you are selected.
- The video’s should be recorded in English or have English subtitles.
- Winners will be selected by a panel of 3 judges chosen by CAVIRTEX and Saucal.
Prizes:
The prize pool will begin at 1 BTC but in the spirit of Bitcoin the pool will be a public address that is open for additional sponsorship. Don’t you #lovebitcoin?
- Ultimate Grand Supreme Bitcoin Lover – 50%
- Grand Supreme Bitcoin Lover – 25%
- Supreme Bitcoin Lover – 10%
- Super Bitcoin Lover – 5% (3 available)
Criteria for judging:
Videos will be judged with the following in mind:
- Originality & Creativity
- Popularity & Virality
- Passion & Enthusiasm
- Quality
Global Jihad 'Could Be Funded With Bitcoin'
Donations supporting "violent physical struggle" would be "untrackable" by Western governments, says an ISIS-linked blog.
A new blog associated with the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has said that bitcoin could "enable jihad on a large scale" by sending "millions of dollars" to fighters.
In a post called "Bitcoin and the Charity of Violent Physical Struggle", the author argues such donations would be "untrackable" by Western governments.
Slingshot now accepting bitcoins
Internet provider Slingshot has begun accepting payment in Bitcoins.
General manager Taryn Hamilton said he expected the ability to pay in the virtual currency would appeal to the "small, but passionate Bitcoin user base".
"We're a web company, so it seems fitting to accept the world's premier web currency," he said.
THREAT LEVEL
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
DARK WALLET
Amir Taaki and Cody Wilson are cruising north through Texas on Interstate 35 in the 4:30 am predawn darkness. One of the headlights on the aging BMW Wilson’s driving is burned out, and he’s wearing sunglasses. “They’re prescription,” he says drily.
It’s May Day, every anarchist’s favorite holiday, and the two 26-year-olds have marked the occasion by releasing a piece of software that represents their best attempt so far to undermine every government in the world. A call from a lawyer friend has reminded them that creative US prosecutors might hit them with conspiracy or other charges. So they’ve decided to skip town.
Half an hour earlier, they pulled out of Wilson’s apartment in Austin and began the long nighttime drive to Dallas, where Wilson has booked Taaki a last-minute flight to Barcelona. Taaki has friends there living in a squat in an abandoned police station. Wilson himself plans to lay low in his hometown of Little Rock, Arkansas. A 29-year-old Canadian friend, cryptographer Peter Todd, is riding along in the back seat.
"Finnish national digital TV broadcaster Digita co-operates with startup company Koodilehto to start transmission of Bitcoin blockchain and transactions in Terrestrial Digital TV (DVB-T) signal that covers almost the entire Finnish population of 5 million people. The pilot broadcasting starts in September the 1st and lasts two months. The broadcast can be received by a computer with any DVB-T adapter like this $20 dongle. Commercial production phase is planned to begin later this year."
It's happening.-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 06:54 AM)
It's happening.-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 06:54 AM)
And as soon as it becomes fully licensed and government regulated it will be universal. :P-40hz (July 12, 2014, 07:26 AM)
and skews the conversation to things that just ain't gonna happen. Bitcoin cannot be regulated. The game is over. It's done. Insert another quarter, but you don't get to continue.-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:42 AM)
You can regulate what PEOPLE do. But the Bitcoin cat is out of the bag.
Bitcoin is FLOSS software. Can anyone regulate Apache or Linux?-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:42 AM)
You can regulate what PEOPLE do. But the Bitcoin cat is out of the bag.
Bitcoin is FLOSS software. Can anyone regulate Apache or Linux?-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:42 AM)
Hate to say it, but they most certainly can. FLOSS is not immune to government interference and regulation. Both directly and (more insidiously) indirectly. (see: China, Russia, N. Korea, New Zealand, Australia, the USA, ...)
Just like that other great piece of technology that was supposed to liberate us all and serve as the absolute check on the power government: the Internet.
The intelligence agencies of the world are still laughing themselves to silly over that one.-40hz (July 12, 2014, 07:55 AM)
He also brew up a helluva fine Ginger Ale! (Thanks for the recipe and suggestions btw!) :Thmbsup:-40hz (July 12, 2014, 07:47 AM)
He also brew up a helluva fine Ginger Ale! (Thanks for the recipe and suggestions btw!) :Thmbsup:-40hz (July 12, 2014, 07:47 AM)
Give 'er a shot & tell me what you think. Expect it to be dry though. I actually picked up some ale and champagne yeasts to give it another shot with a more polished approach. :)-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 10:16 AM)
Just like that other great piece of technology that was supposed to liberate us all and serve as the absolute check on the power government: the Internet.
The intelligence agencies of the world are still laughing themselves to silly over that one.-40hz (July 12, 2014, 07:55 AM)
This might be interesting for some:
Bitcoin copper rounds.
Now, they are ornamental, and only for collectors. Also, if you are into purchasing metals as a way to store wealth, you have to be braindead to buy them - but that goes for pretty much all copper rounds, and not just those. (They are overpriced by a LOT! Silver or gold are much better buys, and particularly silver.)
Anyways, just thought it might be interesting for some people here. Gimmicky? Sure. Fun? Definitely! :)-Renegade (October 04, 2012, 11:43 AM)
Remember the concept of the self fulfilling prophecy, and add to that the knowledge that no one really has any power over you unless you give it to them. If we continuously function solely based on the assumption that TPTB have total control over everything ... Then they very soon really will. And we will all die very quietly whenever and wherever we are told too.-Stoic Joker (July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM)
Trying it with a very nice pale ale yeast I've had some very good luck with in the past. S/B interesting to see how it comes out.-40hz (July 12, 2014, 12:31 PM)
Also thinking of trying for a honey-ginger mead...hmm...-40hz (July 12, 2014, 12:31 PM)
Maybe we should start a separate homebrew thread for this?-40hz (July 12, 2014, 12:31 PM)
The open source standard for decentralized exchange
Colored Coins is a colored bitcoin minting and exchange protocol that works on top of an existing blockchain infrastructure
Remember the concept of the self fulfilling prophecy, and add to that the knowledge that no one really has any power over you unless you give it to them. If we continuously function solely based on the assumption that TPTB have total control over everything ... Then they very soon really will. And we will all die very quietly whenever and wherever we are told too.-Stoic Joker (July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM)
^ THIS!-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:33 PM)
Remember the concept of the self fulfilling prophecy, and add to that the knowledge that no one really has any power over you unless you give it to them. If we continuously function solely based on the assumption that TPTB have total control over everything ... Then they very soon really will. And we will all die very quietly whenever and wherever we are told too.-Stoic Joker (July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM)
^ THIS!-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:33 PM)
Lest what I am saying be misconstrued, I'll spell it out a little more bluntly...
As a product of the anti-war (Viet Nam) era I too say "speak truth to power."
...
As Franklin so succinctly put it: We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
Something to think about when it comes to pushing for disruptive change.
:)-40hz (July 13, 2014, 08:01 AM)
Remember the concept of the self fulfilling prophecy, and add to that the knowledge that no one really has any power over you unless you give it to them. If we continuously function solely based on the assumption that TPTB have total control over everything ... Then they very soon really will. And we will all die very quietly whenever and wherever we are told too.-Stoic Joker (July 12, 2014, 01:16 PM)
^ THIS!-Renegade (July 12, 2014, 07:33 PM)
Lest what I am saying be misconstrued, I'll spell it out a little more bluntly...
As a product of the anti-war (Viet Nam) era I too say "speak truth to power."
...
As Franklin so succinctly put it: We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
Something to think about when it comes to pushing for disruptive change.
:)-40hz (July 13, 2014, 08:01 AM)
40... This is turning into almost conditioned response to Ren and I getting together on something. :D-Stoic Joker (July 13, 2014, 12:17 PM)
40... This is turning into almost conditioned response to Ren and I getting together on something. :D-40hz (July 13, 2014, 12:38 PM)
:huh: Ok...If that's the way it's being taken, or starting to sound, then perhaps I'd best just leave the two of you to it.
I'm out. :)
Onward!- Stoic Joker on Today at 01:17:18 PM
Every time you pick up a newspaper,
Every time you switch on the T.V.,
You can bet your old boots that at some point you'll see,
A high ranking Garda or else a T.P.
Calling on all who are meant to be free,
To stand up and defend law and order.
It's illegal to rip off a payroll,
It's illegal to hold up a train,
But it's legal to rip off a million or two,
That comes from the labour that other folk do,
To plunder the many on behalf of the few,
Is a thing that is perfectly legal.
It's illegal to kill off your landlord
Or to trespass upon his estate
But to charge a high rent for a slum is O.K.
To condemn two adults and three children to stay
In a hovel that's rotten with damp and decay
It's a thing that is perfectly legal.
If your job turns you into a zombie
Then it's legal to feel some despair
But don't get agressive and don't get too smart
For Christ's sake don't upset the old applecart
Remember you boss has your interest at heart
And it grieves him to see you unhappy.
If you fashion a bomb in your kitchen,
You're guilty of breaking the law,
But a bloody great nuclear plant is O.K.,
And plutonium processing hastens the day,
This tight little isle will be blasted away,
Nonetheless it is perfectly legal.
It's illegal if you are a traveller,
To camp by the side of the road,
But it's proper and right for the rich and the great,
To live in a mansion or own an estate,
That was got from the people by pillage and rape,
That is what they call a tradition.
It's illegal to kill off your missus,
Or put poison in your old man's tea,
But poison the river's the seas or the skies,
And poison the minds of a nation with lies,
It's all in the interest of free enterprise,
Nonetheless it's perfectly legal.
Well it's legal to sing on the telly,
But make bloody sure that you don't,
To sing about racists and fascists and creeps,
And those in high places who live off the weak,
And hose who are selling us right up the creek,
The twisters, the takers, the conmen, the fakers,
The whole bloody gang of exploiters.
@Ren - This one was made for you. Francis Black singing the Ewan McColl song Legal Illegal-40hz (July 15, 2014, 06:26 PM)
Awesome B-day cake!
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg359426#msg359426))
V!-Renegade (July 14, 2014, 08:58 AM)
^ havent heard that one before 40 :up:
Sounds suspiciously like a Libertarian (in the U.S. sense) song though :p
-
and wasnt that partly the reason Bitcoin got going in the first place?-tomos (July 15, 2014, 07:17 PM)
Described by Vernor Vinge, crypto-anarchy is more specifically anarcho-capitalist, employing cryptography to enable individuals to make consensual economic arrangements and to transcend national boundaries.
Guess for the moment that's a BTC 2.0e[whatever] worth... :0) which I guess roughly at the moment is 625.18 BTCUSD
Though I'm casually looking for something of a higher resolution quote, if anyone happens to be able to help me there, I'd love it!-ediblesound (July 15, 2014, 08:47 PM)
Awesome B-day cake!
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg359426#msg359426))
V!-Renegade (July 14, 2014, 08:58 AM)
Something slightly uncomfortable to me about the design of that Color design is the slant, going from top Right to bottom left, which seems to me to be less than auspicious, and I refer to 1215.,org and in the audio ( I think 1 of the set of three, but maybe it's in the set of 12) about the common law there is some description about the Ties worn centuries ago- and the symbolism of a king drawing a sword from it's sheath, and this symbolism basically emerging as the "No Parking" signs and even the little "lnodrop.cur" y'all are probably familiar with.-ediblesound (July 15, 2014, 08:47 PM)
Awesome B-day cake!
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg359426#msg359426))
V!-Renegade (July 14, 2014, 08:58 AM)
Something slightly uncomfortable to me about the design of that Color design is the slant, going from top Right to bottom left, which seems to me to be less than auspicious, and I refer to 1215.,org and in the audio ( I think 1 of the set of three, but maybe it's in the set of 12) about the common law there is some description about the Ties worn centuries ago- and the symbolism of a king drawing a sword from it's sheath, and this symbolism basically emerging as the "No Parking" signs and even the little "lnodrop.cur" y'all are probably familiar with.-ediblesound (July 15, 2014, 08:47 PM)
The black & yellow flag is the anarcho-capitalist flag. Check my response to tomos above as there's some info about that in there. I'm not sure about the sword imagery though.-Renegade (July 15, 2014, 09:17 PM)
title to: cars, bodies, life, DNA, time, transactional units- here at discussion with the bitcoin- the same idea must I think be extended in application to all things desired, i.e. ALLODIAL title via the land patent, et cetera!!!)-ediblesound (July 15, 2014, 11:40 PM)
title to: cars, bodies, life, DNA, time, transactional units- here at discussion with the bitcoin- the same idea must I think be extended in application to all things desired, i.e. ALLODIAL title via the land patent, et cetera!!!)-ediblesound (July 15, 2014, 11:40 PM)
Don't get me started on fee simple... I'll just devolve into a blithering mass of profanity and obscenity.-Renegade (July 16, 2014, 01:24 AM)
So it seems there are aspects of fungibility AND nonfungibility to the lineage-possessing commodity/currency, nonfungible in the lineage of prepossessers, or- I guess I need to focus on exactly how these all work...-ediblesound (July 16, 2014, 01:54 AM)
RE YaCy - Yes. It is open source. Give it a look.So it seems there are aspects of fungibility AND nonfungibility to the lineage-possessing commodity/currency, nonfungible in the lineage of prepossessers, or- I guess I need to focus on exactly how these all work...-ediblesound (July 16, 2014, 01:54 AM)
Funny you should mention that. I'm in the middle of writing an article on why the fiat currency we use today isn't fungible and how the fungibility like works.-Renegade (July 16, 2014, 02:23 AM)
RE YaCy - Yes. It is open source. Give it a look.So it seems there are aspects of fungibility AND nonfungibility to the lineage-possessing commodity/currency, nonfungible in the lineage of prepossessers, or- I guess I need to focus on exactly how these all work...-ediblesound (July 16, 2014, 01:54 AM)
Funny you should mention that. I'm in the middle of writing an article on why the fiat currency we use today isn't fungible and how the fungibility like works.-Renegade (July 16, 2014, 02:23 AM)
would love to contribute however I can in these subjects, and learn as much as possible, and specifically- love to review as much information as possible on the subjects and to see the collaboration in the ideal-like consolidation of information- as a scattering of cogent thought in diffusion is slow ( which I think can also sometimes be great, humour for example often relies on the lightning strike of delayed consolidation) - and I believe the answers come together as people mix the variety of perspective- preferably in the peaceful way!
In otherwords- would love to read it at any time you are comfortable.-ediblesound (July 16, 2014, 02:28 AM)
The yacy network actually seems like an interesting and potentially good way to evolve the ForEx market, which from what I read is already in some ways like that, especially with the expanding number of brokers, and the internet in general.-ediblesound (July 16, 2014, 02:28 AM)
I bought my first bitcoin last week. Easy peasy.
^ havent heard that one before 40 :up:
Sounds suspiciously like a Libertarian (in the U.S. sense) song though :p
-
and wasnt that partly the reason Bitcoin got going in the first place?-tomos (July 15, 2014, 07:17 PM)
New York’s New Bitcoin Rules Are Going to Kill Its Startups
By Robert McMillan
07.17.14 | 2:15 pm |
New York State has released a first draft of its much-anticipated plan to regulate bitcoin and other virtual currencies, and at first blush, they look like they were written for the 19th century banking industry, not the modern fast-changing world of crypto currencies.
The guy responsible for the rules, Benjamin Lawsky, has a fine line to walk. Bitcoin, after all, came of age as a lubricant for illegal activity on the Silk Road. But today, a new generation of bitcoin startups are coming of age with millions of dollars in backing from legitimate venture capital companies. Is New York about to drive these startups out of town by clubbing them with onerous regulations before they can walk? Quite possibly. The New York regulations introduce a new level of reporting rules that cover a wider swath of businesses and require more work than the current federal guidelines.
The guidelines ask bitcoin businesses to keep track not only of the physical addresses of their customers, but also of anybody who sends their customers money using the bitcoin network. That undermines the fundamental value proposition of bitcoin, which works very much like the internet’s version of cash. But there’s more. Bitcoin businesses must also file frequent reports to Lawsky’s organization, the New York State Department of Financial Services, or DFS, to detail changes in ownership, financial forecasts, even strategic business plans. <more> (http://www.wired.com/2014/07/ny_bitcoin/)
New York State has released a first draft of its much-anticipated plan to regulate bitcoin and other virtual currencies
Roger Ver, a libertarian who and serial bitcoin business investor, believes that—if adopted— the rules will drive bitcoin businesses out of New York. “These men calling themselves government are not asking anybody to do anything. They are making demands, and will put us behind bars if we don’t obey,” he says. “Bitcoin was specifically designed to strip away power from men who would be so presumptuous to believe that they have the right to rule over others.”
Please don't let your bitterness cloud your thinking so much as to think wishing it weren't so changes anything.-40hz (July 18, 2014, 10:11 AM)
I've said before the way things seem to work is you can either say whatever you want to people - or get what you want from them. But you never get both.-40hz (July 18, 2014, 10:11 AM)
Ver is playing right into the opposition's hands making toothless and naive comments like the one you quoted. Lovely of him to publicly make a statement to the effect that the real intent (and therefor threat) of Bitcoin is to undermine the rule of law and disrupt government worldwide. Thanks dude! You can be sure remarks like his will be quoted and figure prominently in the justifications given for tougher regulation or abolition.-40hz (July 18, 2014, 10:11 AM)
Dell is now the world's largest ecommerce business to accept #bitcoin http://www.dell.com http://fb.me/1d9ojMrZw
15 Reasons For Bitcoin Startups To Move From New York To Austin
Regulating Bitcoin means having a hand in the actual coding of it and writing code and then being able to convince everyone in the Bitcoin economy (or 51%) to accept your version of it.-Renegade (July 18, 2014, 11:02 AM)
Aaaaaaand...
Texans flip NY the finger:
http://www.movetoaustin.io/15 Reasons For Bitcoin Startups To Move From New York To Austin
More at the link.
Like I said... NY is hanging itself.-Renegade (July 18, 2014, 11:27 AM)
Regulating Bitcoin means having a hand in the actual coding of it and writing code and then being able to convince everyone in the Bitcoin economy (or 51%) to accept your version of it.-Renegade (July 18, 2014, 11:02 AM)
Actually, this I will disagree with. Effective regulation- yes. But you can regulate without it being effective in and of itself- other than a yardstick for prosecution and persecution.-wraith808 (July 18, 2014, 03:24 PM)
Fun Fact:[/b] The post on alcoholic ginger ale I did in large part because it undermines the state. Alcohol is heavily taxed and regulated, and I wanted to put out a method by which people could get around the state and taxation. That post was purely for the sake of undermining the establishment/state. I blogged about it a while back here (http://cynic.me/2014/05/18/anarchist-alcohol-ginger-ale/). But, you probably already figured that one out as it's pretty obvious.-Renegade (July 18, 2014, 11:02 AM)
Fun Fact:[/b] The post on alcoholic ginger ale I did in large part because it undermines the state. Alcohol is heavily taxed and regulated, and I wanted to put out a method by which people could get around the state and taxation. That post was purely for the sake of undermining the establishment/state. I blogged about it a while back here (http://cynic.me/2014/05/18/anarchist-alcohol-ginger-ale/). But, you probably already figured that one out as it's pretty obvious.-Renegade (July 18, 2014, 11:02 AM)
Must have missed that bit of 'obvious' because homebrewing in the US is a legal non-issue. But thanks just the same. :)
On the federal level (and in most states) making your own wine has been completely legal since prohibition was repealed in 1933. Beer was inadvertently left out of the wording of the 21st amendment so there was some question about it in certain places up until 1978. However, home brewing was officially made legal in 1979 thanks to Jimmy Carter. Some states dragged their feet about reconciling their local laws with the federal rule, which unfortunately left homebrewing in a legal gray area in a few places. Primarily in the deep south (i.e. Mississippi and Alabama). But that changed in 2013 when those last two holdouts formally legalized home brewing. In theory production is restricted to an 200 gallons per household annually for personal consumption. But as long as you're not selling any of it, nobody pays that rule much attention.
8)-40hz (July 19, 2014, 07:06 AM)
@ericnakagawa:
2014-07-22 04:36:55 UTC
Chase is closing all my bank accounts after I buy Bitcoin on @coinbase /cc @pmarca pic.twitter.com [Imgur]
ericnakagawa 24 points 3 hours ago
It's funny, because they kept my credit card account open. But "real" money accounts are getting shut down. :(
WSJ website hacked, data offered for sale for 1 bitcoin
Same hacker attacked BBC, Vice websites, offered user databases for sale.
by Sean Gallagher - Jul 23, 2014 2:51 pm UTC
Dow Jones & Co. took two servers that store the news graphics for The Wall Street Journal website offline yesterday evening after a confirmed intrusion by a hacker calling himself “w0rm.” The hacker was offering what he claimed was user information and server access credentials that would allow others to “modify articles, add new content, insert malicious content in any page, add new users, delete users, and so on,” Andrew Komarov, chief executive officer of cybersecurity firm IntelCrawl, told The Wall Street Journal.
W0rm, according to Komarov, is the same individual previously known as “Rev0lver” and “Hash,” a Russian hacker who tried to sell access to the BBC’s servers last December and attacked the Web servers of Vice Media earlier this year. At 5:30pm ET on July 21, he posted a screenshot to Twitter that showed the e-mail address, username, and hashed password for the database admin on a wsj.com server. He offered to sell the full dump of the database table of authorized users for one bitcoin through an exploit marketplace at w0rm.in...
^ I'll take the bait:
what did these people use before bitcoin?-tomos (July 23, 2014, 03:52 PM)
what would they use if there were no bitcoin?-tomos (July 23, 2014, 03:52 PM)
^ I'll take the bait:
what did these people use before bitcoin?-tomos (July 23, 2014, 03:52 PM)
Nothing, crime didn't even exist before Bitcoins were created. But instantly after their manifestation the entire planet en masse went criminally insane.what would they use if there were no bitcoin?-tomos (July 23, 2014, 03:52 PM)
They'd all have to go back to swapping hen weights and handjobs.
:D-Stoic Joker (July 23, 2014, 06:26 PM)
Many of our users protect their privacy and defend themselves against snooping advertising companies by using Tor. This has been the case from day one at Coinkite and we accept that everyone has their own reasons.
Until now, these users have been using the Tor Browser and simply surfing to Coinkite.com using that wonderful package. Starting today, anyone who wishes to use Tor with Coinkite can also use our new “onion address" to connect directly to Coinkite over the Tor network:
http://gcvqzacplu4veul4.onion
The Four Pillars of a Decentralized Society
1. Decentralized Communications
2. Decentralized Law
3. Decentralized Production
4. Decentralized Finance
A TEDx talk that isn't an establishment circlejerk:-Renegade (July 25, 2014, 10:13 AM)
A TEDx talk that isn't an establishment circlejerk:-Renegade (July 25, 2014, 10:13 AM)
LOL! Amazing how something that was formerly so incontrovertibly despised (i.e. TED) suddenly becomes a bit more acceptable once things start being said that we can agree with, huh?
(Just sayin' :P)-40hz (July 25, 2014, 10:41 AM)
@40hz - More ammo for you to chuck it at me! ;D-Renegade (July 27, 2014, 09:24 PM)
And this is what happens when you completely lose you freaking mind:
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg362119#msg362119))
The 2 S3 440 GH/s machines are turned to pull cold air out of the room, and - yes that is Dryer Vent Hose - then push the hot exhaust air out through the attic. The other S1 180 GH/s machine only has one fan and no outer housing (rather odd I thought), so it's still dumping a ton of hot air into the room ... But it's at least half assed tolerable in here now.
If these are the "Quiet Ones" (and they are), I'd hate like hell to hear the noisy ones ... Let's just say the wife is not thrilled with this latest development..-Stoic Joker (August 17, 2014, 10:39 AM)
The world of gold bullion sales is often peopled by the odd and interesting. Joseph Castillo is one of the latter. The owner of Agora Commodities, his company now only accepts Bitcoin for online sales, a move that has reduced fraud and improved his service.
Castillo talked to Coindesk about his decision, saying that “What we had to do to protect ourselves against card fraud, we no longer have to do with bitcoin – and that saves us on costs.”
The company has done $10 million in revenue through bitcoin since he moved to cryptocurrencies in the beginning of 2014. Customers understood the move and have been working with him to transfer assets via the blockchain rather than the Visa card. Castillo is also planning on building a BTC exchange for his customers. The goal is to create a one-stop-shop for all your goldbug tendencies, including fiat to BTC conversions.
“Bitcoin fits perfectly with gold and silver, right? So if people come to the site and want to buy gold and silver, why wouldn’t they want to buy bitcoin from us as well?” he told Coindesk.
And this is what happens when you completely lose you freaking mind:
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg362119#msg362119))
The 2 S3 440 GH/s machines are turned to pull cold air out of the room, and - yes that is Dryer Vent Hose - then push the hot exhaust air out through the attic. The other S1 180 GH/s machine only has one fan and no outer housing (rather odd I thought), so it's still dumping a ton of hot air into the room ... But it's at least half assed tolerable in here now.
If these are the "Quiet Ones" (and they are), I'd hate like hell to hear the noisy ones ... Let's just say the wife is not thrilled with this latest development..-Stoic Joker (August 17, 2014, 10:39 AM)
Like living on a tarmac, eh? :)-Renegade (August 25, 2014, 09:31 PM)
Seems likeBitcoin[Bitmonero/Monero] (and [possibly] other) mining is artificially crippled so the miner devs make higher profits:
http://da-data.blogspot.de/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html-Tuxman (August 29, 2014, 07:55 AM)
Seems like Bitcoin (and other) mining is artificially crippled so the miner devs make higher profits:
http://da-data.blogspot.de/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html-Tuxman (August 29, 2014, 07:55 AM)
This is funny... but way too esoteric for the silly humour thread:
[...]
You have to watch it to the end though.-Renegade (September 08, 2014, 09:55 AM)
EBay’s PayPal Unit to Start Accepting Bitcoin Payments
EBay Inc. (EBAY)’s PayPal service will start accepting bitcoins, opening up the world’s second-biggest Internet payment network to virtual currency transactions.
“We’re announcing PayPal’s first foray into bitcoin,” Bill Ready, the chief of EBay’s Braintree unit, said at Techcrunch’s Disrupt SF conference yesterday. “Over the coming months we’ll allow our merchants to accept bitcoin. On the consumer side it will be a sleek experience.”
EBay, as the world’s biggest Web marketplace and operator of a global payments service, is the most significant business to date that’s embraced bitcoin. The move could potentially enable PayPal’s 152 million registered accounts to transact using the virtual currency, spurring wider use and acceptance of bitcoin, according to Gil Luria, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc.
“PayPal integrating bitcoin into Braintree is a very substantial development,” Luria said. “Not only will it make it possible for some of the fastest-growing apps to integrate bitcoin seamlessly, it opens the door for PayPal to integrate bitcoin into its main wallet functionality. If that happens millions of retailers will de facto be accepting bitcoin overnight.”
Naughty Bits - Sexy Bitcoin "News" Show :)
Hello everyone! I just posted the first episode of my new bitcoin "news" show where I talk about things that I think are sexy in the world of bitcoin! :)
The show isn't really intended to be informative or educational, just fun! Hopefully the show will get people excited about bitcoin! ;)
So I did 2 versions of the show, an uncensored version for my Pornhub channel, and a comically-censored version for YouTube! Both are pretty NSFW:
Pornhub: http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=1683533477
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwTCgvCAz80
Here are the things that I thought were sexy in this episode:
PayPal Accepting Bitcoin through Braintree: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/11/paypal-bitcoin-braintree-overstock-reddit
CoinKite's new Nym service: http://blog.coinkite.com/post/97057447171/nyms-anon-personas-and-payment-pages-for-all
The OpenBazaar Beta: /r/OpenBazaar
Bazaar Markets : /r/BazaarMarkets
I'd love to hear what you guys think is sexy in the world of bitcoin so I can talk about it next time!
The show is free and always will be, but donations are always appreciated! :)
XO-Saffron
Andreas Antonopolous is signing copies of his book "Mastering Bitcoin"...-Renegade (October 09, 2014, 11:22 AM)
The author wants you to know that his handwriting is that of someone who has typed almost everything (including grocery lists) for the past 20 years. This means your message might be as legible as a prescription note from a doctor (not at all). Near illegibility serves as proof of authenticity!-https://www.bitcoinbook.info/shop/author-signing-and-10-charitable-donation/
The Math Behind Bitcoin
One reason Bitcoin can be confusing for beginners is that the technology behind it redefines the concept of ownership.
To own something in the traditional sense, be it a house or a sum of money, means either having personal custody of the thing or granting custody to a trusted entity such as a bank.
With Bitcoin the case is different. Bitcoins themselves are not stored either centrally or locally and so no one entity is their custodian. They exist as records on a distributed ledger called the block chain, copies of which are shared by a volunteer network of connected computers. To “own” a bitcoin simply means having the ability to transfer control of it to someone else by creating a record of the transfer in the block chain. What grants this ability? Access to an ECDSA private and public key pair. What does that mean and how does that secure Bitcoin?
Let’s have a look under the hood.
...SNIP...
Conclusion
For those of you who saw all the equations and skipped to the bottom, what have we just learned?
We have developed some intuition about the deep mathematical relationship that exists between public and private keys. We have seen how even in the simplest examples the math behind signatures and verification quickly gets complicated, and we can appreciate the enormous complexity which must be involved when the parameters involved are 256-bit numbers. We have seen how the clever application of the simplest mathematical procedures can create the one-way “trap door” functions necessary to preserve the information asymmetry which defines ownership of a bitcoin. And we have newfound confidence in the robustness of the system, provided that we carefully safeguard the knowledge of our private keys.
In other words, this is why it is commonly said that Bitcoin is “backed by math.”
If you hung in through the complicated bits, we hope it gave you the confidence to take the next step and try out the math on your own (a modular arithmetic calculator makes the finite field math much easier). We found that going through the steps of signing and verifying data by hand provides a deeper understanding of the cryptography that enables Bitcoin’s unique form of ownership.
The Bitcoin Address with Andreas M. Antonopoulos
Monday, November 24, 2014
6:30 PM to 9:00 PM
1/41 Stewart Street, Richmond (edit map)
Join us for the highlight event of the year and hear from the brightest minds in the bitcoin community. It’s free, it’s open to the public and it’s catered.
CoinJar is proud to present The Bitcoin Address in Melbourne and Sydney in conjunction with partners College Cryptocurrency Network and Bitcoin Association of Australia. The event is a free, open-to-public bitcoin meetup featuring international speakers from the bitcoin community, including crypto expert Andreas M. Antonopoulos and entrepreneur Tatiana Moroz.
Whether you’re completely new to bitcoin or you’re a bit of a bitcoin enthusiast, this event will educate and inspire you about the currency of the future. Our speaker lineup is well-known by the bitcoin community worldwide, and they’ll give you valuable insights on using bitcoin for the everyday and the extraordinary.
“I’ve been looking forward to visiting Australia, as it has a vibrant and active bitcoin community. Australia’s high tech and entrepreneurial culture combined with its young population make it fertile ground for bitcoin.”
- Andreas M. Antonopoulos
"I have always dreamed of visiting Australia. It represents this raw adventurous spirit... I know that bitcoin has some really solid support and interest in the community, but I also know that just like in the states, there will be plenty of people who don't know about it yet! In between hiking, swimming, and checking out the sites, I hope to have many opportunities to share how bitcoin has improved so many lives around the wall and is a truly international phenomena."
- Tatiana Moroz
About the event
World-renowned crypto-currency expert Andreas M. Antonopoulos will cover current issues and emerging trends of bitcoin in his keynote address.
You’ll hear from Bitcoin law expert Pamela Morgan, who will discuss how bitcoin is being used globally in innovative ways. Entrepreneur and musician Tatiana Moroz joins our speaker lineup to share her experience of spreading the use of bitcoin amongst the artistic community.
We’re expecting a big crowd, with limited places, so invite your friends and RSVP now.
I decided to give out $0.10 USD worth of Bitcoin to anybody who uses ktbyte.com:The second two steps are there so that we don't get ddosed by bots.[/size]
- (Optional) Try our free intro CS class on a desktop / laptop
- Make an account and login
- Click the check button after listening to any lecture (or solve a problem). The shortest lecture is the intro. Should take you less than 10 seconds.
- Go to https://www.ktbyte.com/users/progress#freegoodie and send me the redirected url (or paste it below), and I'll send you your bits using changetip!
^ hah, that must be you with Andreas Antonopoulos in Melbourne :)-tomos (November 24, 2014, 07:50 AM)
I presume you enjoyed-tomos (November 24, 2014, 07:50 AM)
SAUL WILLIAMS PLEDGE OF RESISTANCE LYRICS[/size]
We believe that as people living
in the United States it is our
responsibility to resist the injustices
done by our government,
in our names
Not in our name
will you wage endless war
there can be no more deaths
no more transfusions
of blood for oil
Not in our name
will you invade countries
bomb civilians, kill more children
letting history take its course
over the graves of the nameless
Not in our name
will you erode the very freedoms
you have claimed to fight for
Not by our hands
will we supply weapons and funding
for the annihilation of families
on foreign soil
Not by our mouths
will we let fear silence us
Not by our hearts
will we allow whole peoples
or countries to be deemed evil
Not by our will
and Not in our name
We pledge resistance
We pledge alliance with those
who have come under attack
for voicing opposition to the war
or for their religion or ethnicity
We pledge to make common cause
with the people of the world
to bring about justice,
freedom and peace
Another world is possible
and we pledge to make it real.
Ideas matter. They're important.-Renegade (November 24, 2014, 10:29 AM)
However, the implementation and execution of ideas are even more important.
Without meaningful, sustainable, and ultimately successful action, they're just more rhetoric.
8)-40hz (November 24, 2014, 11:00 AM)
Smart contracts, tokenized property, micro payments, and arbitrary escrow are just a few things there.Well, it is rhetoric, at least to me :huh:. For instance:
It's more than just rhetoric.-Renegade (November 24, 2014, 06:55 PM)
However, the implementation and execution of ideas are even more important.
Without meaningful, sustainable, and ultimately successful action, they're just more rhetoric.
8)-40hz (November 24, 2014, 11:00 AM)
Bitcoin is still a pretty young technology, and the things happening right now are changing the world. Even "the Internet of money" is a limited view of it.
Smart contracts, tokenized property, micro payments, and arbitrary escrow are just a few things there.
It's more than just rhetoric. It's a multi-billion dollar economy with millions of participants and this is just its infancy.-Renegade (November 24, 2014, 06:55 PM)
People with power and guns (i.e. 90% of all current governments) don't relinquish their positions and perks without a fight. A real - as in physical - fight.-40hz (November 24, 2014, 08:09 PM)
Re Bitcoin: I'm neither a 'believer' nor a cynic -- but I think bitcoin *is* going to change the world, how exactly, I dont know, but it's made a start already, and even if it fails as a currency, it has opened doors that cannot be closed.-tomos (November 25, 2014, 02:41 PM)
^Really? I don't even own a gun. Nor do I have any desire to use one. ;D-40hz (November 24, 2014, 11:36 PM)
And to people who think it cannot work -- in one of Antonopoulos's videos he talks about politicians already accepting bribes in bitcoin and this being the start of the end so-to-speak (do you remember which vid that was Ren?).-tomos (November 25, 2014, 02:41 PM)
Bitcoin is Going Mainstream in 2015
...End of articleThe timing is right for Bitcoin to gain mass adoption and Microsoft’s acceptance is proof of that. There’s a reason one of the world’s most profitable companies believes in the future of Bitcoin and despite skepticism from some economists, it’s time for something new.
Just like plastic replaced paper, it’s time for ones and zeros to take over.
I'm more concerned with its value dropping than its mainstream increasing. Cripes it's down to $350 USD now ...(that shit's making me nervous)... They need to dropkick it back up to at least the 500's..-Stoic Joker (December 12, 2014, 10:58 PM)
I'm more concerned with its value dropping than its mainstream increasing. Cripes it's down to $350 USD now ...(that shit's making me nervous)... They need to dropkick it back up to at least the 500's..-Stoic Joker (December 12, 2014, 10:58 PM)
Right now the market is once again being manipulated, as bulls and bears battle it out with the charts as the scoreboard.-SeraphimLabs (December 13, 2014, 09:03 AM)
Keep in mind that oil prices dipping like this could be a signal for a crash.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
Canadian housing prices just dipped for the first time in 5 years. Spain & Greece have 50% youth unemployment. The Japanese economy is a shambles.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
The US has 0.34% cash to debt (near zero liquidity), which indicates that they have a lot of market power.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
The oil price crash is likely part of a broader economic war on Russia. GATA was right about the PM market being manipulated. They all are. Legislation is in place to bail-in the banks (i.e. steal money from people to cover bank losses). New legislation on derivatives went through. The derivatives market is 20x (or more) the size of the world economy. Will pension funds be raided? Can we say "bubble"?-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
That could push people to put their savings into assets that aren't affected by traditional economic factors, and Bitcoin fits the bill.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
Right now with the price like it is, it seems like a buy & hold or buy & spend (with some holding) price. It's pretty cheap now.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
The US has 0.34% cash to debt (near zero liquidity), which indicates that they have a lot of market power.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
"Zero Liquidity" (e.g. no cash) equates to "Market Power" how exactly?? If you're broke, you're supposed to stop buying shit ... Unless you're intention is to star in one of the many blond jokes that end with "But I still have checks left?!?"..-Stoic Joker (December 14, 2014, 08:59 AM)
Keep in mind that oil prices dipping like this could be a signal for a crash.-Renegade (December 13, 2014, 05:16 PM)
Highly doubtful...unless it being intentionally orchestrated. TheOilErr... "Energy Companies" are simply running out of bullshit excuses for keeping the prices jacked up to crippling rates. Last I heard the US is producing 80+% on its own oil so the middle east boogie man (blame game) shenanigans don't fly anymore. They've fracking well known (pun intended) for years they could drop the price to a reasonable level and still rake in mountains of cash per minute - just like they still are right now - without vimpirically draining the economy for fun and profit Ferengi style.
This kind of crap is precisely why these elitist market ghouls need to be publically executed (by the public) as a warning to others.-Stoic Joker (December 14, 2014, 08:59 AM)
There has only been one other time in history when the price of oil has crashed by more than 40 dollars in less than 6 months. The last time this happened was during the second half of 2008, and the beginning of that oil price crash preceded the great financial collapse that happened later that year by several months. Well, now it is happening again, but this time the stakes are even higher. When the price of oil falls dramatically, that is a sign that economic activity is slowing down. It can also have a tremendously destabilizing affect on financial markets. As you will read about below, energy companies now account for approximately 20 percent of the junk bond market. And a junk bond implosion is usually a signal that a major stock market crash is on the way. So if you are looking for a “canary in the coal mine”, keep your eye on the performance of energy junk bonds. If they begin to collapse, that is a sign that all hell is about to break loose on Wall Street.
15 Big Oil sell signals that warn of a 50% stock crash
Highly doubtful...unless it being intentionally orchestrated.-Stoic Joker (December 14, 2014, 08:59 AM)
My boss (Brewster Kahle), who runs the Internet Archive (archive.org, Wayback) just sent this to employees. I figure it had interest in the bitcoin world that we have someone matching bitcoin contributions to give end-of-year bonuses, which means all the employees are getting on the bitcoin wagon. I asked for permission to reprint the letter, which is below (minus a bitcoin how-to he included at the bottom).
Archive Staff,
To both thank the staff of the Internet Archive for a solid year of building towards Universal Access to All Knowledge, and to support Bitcoin by keeping bitcoins in circulation, the Internet Archive will gift bitcoins at the end of this year to participating Internet Archive employees. The bitcoins for this program are donated by an anonymous donor that is matching the December bitcoin donations from our supporters.
The Bitcoins donated via https://archive.org/donate/bitcoin.php by our supporters will go to servers and other infrastructure, but a generous match is specifically to support end-of-year gifts of bitcoins to employees that are likely to spend the bitcoin in interesting ways. We also hope that this match will encourage more people to donate Bitcoin to the Internet Archive.
To do this, we will divide the number of Bitcoins donated in December among the full time Internet Archive employees that get their own bitcoin wallets (like an account), and will try to use the bitcoins.
Currently, people have donated about 11BTC to the Internet Archive since our fundraising started, which, at current price and if every staff member participated, it would be about $25. This is likely to be higher as more donations come in and not everyone will participate. We will cap this at $1k per employee if things go too far one way or another.
What can you do with your year-end Bitcoin gift? (see below for links) * Buy Sushi: I do almost every week on Clement Street-- really great. * Buy Cupcakes, buy groceries on Haight Street * Buy things at online stores * Donate to the Internet Archive, EFF, Wikipedia, etc. * Exchange for cash * Tip other people via twitter and reddit (I used changetip.com to do this via twitter, which is fun)
Who can help you figure out bitcoin? There is an internal group skype chat "bitcoin players" that has been helpful. June can add you if you would like.
Jacques can also help in explaining the program. Please bear with him/us, since I just sprang this on him on Friday.
-brewster
@Ren - I think enough people want it to work right now that the single biggest threat is some people in the Bitcoin community doing something completely jive to torpedo it. I remember the heady early days of the libertarian party when everybody thought this was finally the big break with the past we'd all been waiting for. Surprise! Surprise!
All it takes is one or two jerks to poison the well. I already see that happening over in the FOSS world where the stakes are perhaps even higher.
I don't know if the sudden reduction in serious governmental push-back is a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe those that would see Bitcoin gone are banking on the "fall from grace" so many new social movements too regularly suffer. If so, the odds are certainly in their favor.
Good luck Bitcoin. :)-40hz (December 17, 2014, 06:41 AM)
Who is your pick for Person of the Year? Post your pick in the comments. We'll reveal the winner tomorrow.
Dammit... I'm into my second bottle (750 ml) of ginger ale here that I brewed with Lalvin EC-1118...
But you raise really good points, and I'll be damned if I'll let a bit of intoxication fart with a response~!-Renegade (December 17, 2014, 08:17 AM)
But I think you're wrong about the comparison there. A few jerks can't spoil Bitcoin because it's decentralised, and at any time the miners can tell the Bitcoin development team to go f**k themselves.
It would take a LOT of assholes~! ;D
There's a balance in Bitcoin that doesn't exist in other systems. You can create any code you want for Bitcoin and run it. But that doesn't mean that anyone else will do the same. One or two assholes can't poison the pie here. It takes a massive number of assholes to do it.-Renegade (December 17, 2014, 08:17 AM)
That makes things really scary for people who only know the basic concepts of bitcoin.-SeraphimLabs (December 17, 2014, 12:01 PM)
^What is it with Australia (and New Zealand) lately? They went from being two of the coolest most laid-back countries in the world to being participants in the footrace race to see which so-called "Western Democracy" can be the first to fully embrace totalitarianism. So sad. :(-40hz (December 20, 2014, 11:14 AM)
What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!-wraith808 (December 20, 2014, 04:38 PM)
What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!-wraith808 (December 20, 2014, 04:38 PM)
@Wraith - I think you just completely lost me there... :)-40hz (December 20, 2014, 06:12 PM)
What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!-wraith808 (December 20, 2014, 04:38 PM)
@Wraith - I think you just completely lost me there... :)-40hz (December 20, 2014, 06:12 PM)
It's just that your statement sounded more closely aligned to a Ren statement :)-wraith808 (December 20, 2014, 09:50 PM)
At least we can have fun disagreeing! 8)-Renegade (December 21, 2014, 05:52 PM)
And it was aliens! :P
This! :Thmbsup: A worthy opponent is worth their weight in gold if you really do want to work through and clarify your position on something. It's fun. It's challenging. And it's absolutely essential if you want to avoid the trap of what philosopher William James called: "vicious abstractionism."-40hz (December 21, 2014, 07:03 PM)
I was thinking more:
Renegade: (see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg371948#msg371948))
40hz: (see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg371948#msg371948))-4wd (December 21, 2014, 08:18 PM)
Except my underwear... chaffing...-Renegade (December 27, 2014, 05:51 AM)
On Tuesday, the currency traded even lower at 285.67 per US dollar.
BitStamp's bitcoin breach results in loss of $5.4M-Arizona Hot (January 07, 2015, 02:55 PM)
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=32392.msg374412#msg374412))
First U.S. bitcoin exchange opens for business (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/01/26/bitcoin-usa-coinbase/22341301/)-Arizona Hot (January 27, 2015, 10:06 PM)
It pays to remember, as William Gibson so nicely put it in Burning Chrome, that "the street finds its own uses for things..." -
So too does government.-40hz (January 28, 2015, 08:08 AM)
It's always struck me as funny how - behaviorally speaking - it always seems to be perceived as a pyramid with the government at the top and the - street fighting - rabble at the bottom. Because to me it's not a pyramid at all...but a circle...with middle management being the only ones that truly have to suffer "good" behavior.-Stoic Joker (January 28, 2015, 11:25 AM)
Is that more what you were talking about?-40hz (January 28, 2015, 01:05 PM)
Is that more what you were talking about?-40hz (January 28, 2015, 01:05 PM)
Yes.-Stoic Joker (January 28, 2015, 02:52 PM)
The venture-backed Bitcoin startup CoinTerra has filed for bankruptcy, making it the second major miner manufacturer to do so in recent months.
The Chapter 7 filing, which begins the process of liquidating company assets, was submitted on Saturday and comes just weeks after a Utah-based data center sued CoinTerra over a contract dispute.
^Some years ago, an article in The Harvard Business Review noted the curious phenomena of how many antisocial behaviors and attitudes (that are not normally tolerated in regular society, such as: egotism, unprovoked aggression, intolerance, snap judgement, and a callous disregard for the feelings and opinions of others) are somehow magically elevated to the status of virtues, and considered to be desirable and admirable traits when employed in business and government affairs.-40hz (January 28, 2015, 01:05 PM)
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P-40hz (January 28, 2015, 07:53 PM)
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P-40hz (January 28, 2015, 07:53 PM)
Not in the least. Well, unless you're a communist. And we all know just how awesome communism ends. (https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/) ;)-Renegade (January 30, 2015, 06:15 PM)
It's a bit ridiculous to claim that "property is theft".
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P-40hz (January 28, 2015, 07:53 PM)
Not in the least. Well, unless you're a communist. And we all know just how awesome communism ends. (https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/) ;)-Renegade (January 30, 2015, 06:15 PM)
About as awesomely as Libertarianism and "Free Market" economics keeps misfiring AFAICT. :P ;)-40hz (January 30, 2015, 07:58 PM)
Coming to this discussion late. Only read the first few pages and this one, so far.
With Bitcoin being used primarily in internet gambling and involving a wasteful set-up application by a geek oligarchy (mining bitcoins) I find it rather an absurd and funky-wrong attempt to have an alternate medium of exchange. With a bit of a ponzi investment element and dubious internals. (There is no there there.) The early attendees can do good financially if they can find ways to cash out, which is the nature of ponzi. If they hold everything, they risk everything.-Steven Avery (February 21, 2015, 09:59 AM)
If you want to speculate at this point, it is a bit like day trading, with far less possibility of a sensible strategy. Except, I gather, that you can not afford to make small transactions, due to transaction fees.The opposite as point of fact. I was not able to turn a profit attempting to daytrade normal stocks or forex, but I am reliably getting profit daytrading bitcoin. The market is actually more predictable than you would expect, and has a high enough volatility to make regular profitable movements if you are positioned to catch them.-Steven Avery (February 21, 2015, 09:59 AM)
And I am a big fan of bullion and real estate as real money and value. My view: it is hard to say that gold or silver is overvalued or undervalued. One ounce of either remains at 1 oz a year later. It is the price, volume and confidence in the fiat currencies that varies. The bullion remains the same.
If you, or a friend or relative, puts some wallpaper money into bullion, it never changes. If the price goes down, that's ok. If you lose, you win. Since, up to that time, we have not had an economic collapse and hyperinflation .. yet. Whatever little stash of green is around is still valuable.-Steven Avery (February 21, 2015, 09:59 AM)
If there is a time when Bitcoin has the same amount of convertibility as decent credit card points (transferable gift cards for Target, Bed Bath and Beyond and Barnes and Noble) let me know and I will rethink the above.
Steven-Steven Avery (February 21, 2015, 09:59 AM)
I figured for the fundraiser I would finally get off my behind and create a bitcoin account so we could accept bitcoin donations. You'll find the address at the bottom of the alternate donation page: here (https://www.donationcoder.com/Donate/DonateMethod.html).-mouser (March 23, 2015, 12:34 AM)
Am I rich yet?-mouser (March 23, 2015, 02:05 AM)
Not sure if anyone has heard about this one, or even if it's legit ... But I'm giving it a shot in the name of insane curiosity. eBitInvest.com (http://ebitinvest.com/ref=cAFKbUw.html) (Yes that is a referral link)-Stoic Joker (April 20, 2015, 06:23 PM)
Invest Bitcoins and get double of your investment after just five days!
You have to visit the page to see, so no preview or snippets.
http://amphibian.com/169
Fun 8)-Renegade (May 22, 2015, 08:39 AM)
You have to visit the page to see, so no preview or snippets.
http://amphibian.com/169
Fun 8)-Renegade (May 22, 2015, 08:39 AM)
interesting - worth following the links
(look at Ren's comic one first!)
http://thoughts.amphibian.com/2015/05/using-http-402-for-bitcoin-paywall.html
http://challengepost.com/software/zero-click-bitcoin-micropayments
easy ways to make micro-payments would be nice to have...
(apologies if that's a micro-spoiler...)-tomos (May 22, 2015, 03:09 PM)
This was interesting: Is Bitcoin going mainstream (http://www.paymenteye.com/2015/07/09/is-bitcoin-going-mainstream-infographic/?utm_source=PaymentEye+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=62241030b0-09_07_2015_NL&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3bd2a3a3c5-62241030b0-14611321) - Infographic.
Apparently it has passed Western Union as the - most popular - fastest way to send money.-Stoic Joker (July 14, 2015, 10:14 AM)
Bitcoins and the IRS: Walmart's Problem (http://www.garynorth.com/public/14364.cfm)
Gary North - October 10, 2015
It's time for me to revisit the story of bitcoins. As you may have noticed -- or not have noticed -- you don't hear much about bitcoins these days.
A bitcoin used to be worth about $1100. These days, it is worth $250. The price has settled into this range for most of the year. It's boring. The financial media have dropped the topic. So has the hard money community.
I was an early critic of bitcoins, which earned me the hostility of the bitcoin community, which was small then and remains small.
TAXABLE EVENTS
I want to talk about what should be obvious to anybody. Every time some retailer or wholesaler sells something in exchange for bitcoins, this creates a taxable event. The IRS is highly interested in taxable events.
As you know, the IRS taxes people in United States dollars. It taxes businesses in terms of profits made in United States dollars. This is why every business has to keep an account of whatever it has paid out in United States dollars, which constitutes a deductible business expense. At the same time, every business has to keep a record of how many dollars have come in from sales.
This means that every business that does business in bitcoins must keep a record of the price of the bitcoin in terms of dollars at every point of sale or point of purchase. The IRS wants to know how many dollars came in or went out. It is not interested in bitcoins.
This creates huge problems for any business that wants to use bitcoins. Its computerized point-of-sale software must have a conversion system for bitcoins into United States dollars. When somebody buys something from the retailer, and he uses bitcoins to make the purchase, the retailer's software must instantly convert the value of the bitcoins into the value of United States dollars. The businessman is going to be taxed in terms of the value of the bitcoins in United States dollars.
This is obvious, isn't it? But the implications are not obvious.
If you want to get some estimate of the number of businesses that are using bitcoins as part of their operations, you must find out how many businesses have incorporated a conversion system that records the value of the bitcoins at the point of sale. This means barcode software.
Here is what I have discovered: there is no such barcode conversion software available.
This means that no national retail business sells anything for bitcoins. It also means that no small business does, unless its barcode software is integrated with conversion software that enables the business to find out exactly how many dollars came in when somebody purchased something. In other words, until the small business barcode software has built-in bitcoin conversion, bitcoins will remain a dream in the minds of bitcoin enthusiasts.
Here is an article written by a bitcoin enthusiast for small businesses. It discusses integrating bitcoin purchases with QuickBooks. If you want to read incoherent gibberish, read this (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/using-bitcoin-with-quickbooks-part-1-recording-sales-and-accepting-payments-1385976677). I dare you.
Try to find any small business that uses QuickBooks that has integrated this plan for the business operations. The next one will be the first one.
But QuickBooks is a minor issue. The major issue is barcode software.
We were told from the beginning that bitcoins would soon be used for retail businesses. Try to find a store that has anything visible that says it accepts payments in bitcoins. If you find one, ask the person at the checkout counter how many people are using bitcoins to buy something. He will never have heard of it.
PRIVACY
There is no privacy with respect to bitcoins if you are a retail merchant. All the talk about gaining privacy with bitcoins refers only to consumers. None of it refers to businesses.
A business has to defend every deduction, and the business has to defend every purchase. You don't see Walmart, or Target, or any other national business set up to use bitcoins. That's because their point-of-sale software does not have automatic conversion into bitcoin prices.
I have said from the beginning that the use of bitcoins would be limited to a handful of computer programmers and the Mexican drug cartels. They don't report to the IRS. Any normal business reports to the IRS, and it has to account for its sales and purchases, not in terms of bitcoins, but in terms of United States dollars. This means that there will be no adoption of bitcoins until there is a huge market of consumers who use bitcoins, because of the cost of rewriting all of the point-of-sale software to deal with the problem of the conversion factor. This is the chicken-and-egg problem that the bitcoins movement face. There will not be large numbers of bitcoin users until Walmart and Target and similar national chains make available their products in exchange for bitcoins.
Until you see major national chains adopting point-of-sale software that provides automatic bitcoin conversions, you can safely ignore bitcoins. Still.
Here is what I have discovered: there is no such barcode conversion software available.Right, that's because barcodes are nothing more than a laser readable font...that never gets "converted" to anything.-the Article
This means barcode software.What?? What kind of lame-brained leap of logic is this?? That is such a nonsensical statement -- it's like The Big Lie, just say it in your discussion as if it were fact, and [some] readers will take it as such.-IainB (October 11, 2015, 08:27 AM)
Looks like neither condition is likely to occur in the near future, judging by this thoughtful post on Bitcoins from the economist Gary North: ..."Bitcoins and the IRS: Walmart's Problem" ...
I could be wrong, of course, but I considered that what he was writing about could convey several implicit and valid points:
- BCs (Bitcoins) are effectively a kind of foreign currency at the POS (Point-Of-Sale) for retail outlets (the QuickBooks (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/using-bitcoin-with-quickbooks-part-1-recording-sales-and-accepting-payments-1385976677) article also refers to this).
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
- Retail POS terminals/systems are usually only geared up to operate in a single standard national currency (in the US).
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
- BCs are not a stable currency, due to their fluctuating BC-US$ price, which is presumably fluctuating due to intense speculation in a dynamically changing market.
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
- BCs in any event have the potential (at least currently) for escaping any form of local/federal Retail Sales Tax or VAT (Value-Added Tax) at the POS - the IRS would presumably object to that.
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
- The need to establish the forex (foreign exchange rate) value of the "foreign" BC currency in the local currency (US$) at the POS and at that instant of sale (which is what the BC engine is presumably doing somewhere at that point), would probably be impossible with current Payment Systems technology, as it would necessitate having access to a real-time national database of worldwide BC-to-US$ prices. This seems like it could be a bit of a stumbling-block.
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
- In any event, large retailers (such as Walmart, for example) do not currently have the necessary software which, on scanning the barcode of the sale item at the checkout and getting the US$ price, could then look up such a real-time forex database (assuming that it existed and was nationally accessible in real-time in the first place).
-IainB (October 12, 2015, 02:00 AM)
...What I am curious about is why one would look at a dynamic, fluctuating "exchange rate" and then say that the answer is to do some kind of conversion to a static, unchanging barcode. ...I'm not sure that was what was being intended/proposed, or maybe it's a wrong interpretation (misunderstanding) of what was being proposed. It would seem to be nonsensical.
__________________________-x16wda (October 12, 2015, 05:39 AM)
The necessary BTC software is free, and they all do a dollars to BTC conversion on the fly...which is based on a user configurable exchange.If that is all indeed true, and if it's trusted/reliable/secure, etc., then the hypothesis of the "Wallmart problem" presumably has no validity - i.e., it's not a problem as described. Then Wall mart would probably be implementing - or would be about to implement - BC transactions. Are they, in fact? I wouldn't know - my experience and knowledge is limited to Australasia and what happens in EFT-POS systems and so-called "intelligent networks" used for high volume transaction processing, and the associated Payment Systems and GSS, a lot of which the BC system seems could potentially bypass or make redundant.
FOR SMB's CoinBase (and I'd wager other companies like it) offers a web based transaction handling service that will generate a QR code based invoice, send it to the customer, and then automatically sell off the coin and deposit the money in you bank account (at the agreed on/transacted exchange rate).
_______________________-Stoic Joker (October 12, 2015, 07:03 AM)
^^ Why don't you post a polite comment to that effect on his website? It might be very helpful/useful to him.-IainB (October 14, 2015, 11:05 AM)
I'm quite certain that people closer to Gary have pointed things out to him.That statement reminds me of the prettiest girl in high school going dateless :( because every guy was certain another guy had asked her out. It also dodges your responsibility to yourself.-Renegade (October 30, 2015, 09:33 PM)
I'm quite certain that people closer to Gary have pointed things out to him.That statement reminds me of the prettiest girl in high school going dateless :( because every guy was certain another guy had asked her out. It also dodges your responsibility to yourself.-Renegade (October 30, 2015, 09:33 PM)-barney (October 31, 2015, 01:57 PM)
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Bitcoin is going nuts (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/bitcoin-is-going-nuts/ar-BBmNFT6)-Arizona Hot (November 04, 2015, 01:33 PM)
I really want to get into BC... but I don't even know where to start with it doing this mess.-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 02:49 PM)
I really want to get into BC... but I don't even know where to start with it doing this mess.-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 02:49 PM)
I honestly don't think there is a per se 'Right Way' to get started ... There are however a lot of wrong ways (like investing you life savings, etc..).
I went the mining route, because the whole investing/currency exchange thing confuses the shit out of me. But if you're good at that type of thing maybe pushing some shitcoin around might be a good way in.
In retrospect, I put more into the mining equipment than I should have and the money is kinda stuck there now ... But at the time - it looked good - I couldn't see the bottom falling out shortly thereafter. I'm not looking to pull out completely, I'd just like to break even.-Stoic Joker (November 04, 2015, 03:52 PM)
I really want to get into BC... but I don't even know where to start with it doing this mess.-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 02:49 PM)
I honestly don't think there is a per se 'Right Way' to get started ... There are however a lot of wrong ways (like investing you life savings, etc..).
I went the mining route, because the whole investing/currency exchange thing confuses the shit out of me. But if you're good at that type of thing maybe pushing some shitcoin around might be a good way in.
In retrospect, I put more into the mining equipment than I should have and the money is kinda stuck there now ... But at the time - it looked good - I couldn't see the bottom falling out shortly thereafter. I'm not looking to pull out completely, I'd just like to break even.-Stoic Joker (November 04, 2015, 03:52 PM)
Are you still running your mining setup? And is it still generating an appreciable amount?-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 04:32 PM)
I really want to get into BC... but I don't even know where to start with it doing this mess.-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 02:49 PM)
I really want to get into BC... but I don't even know where to start with it doing this mess.-wraith808 (November 04, 2015, 02:49 PM)
I read somewhere recently-ish that it was practically impossible (for the average person) to earn more money through mining than the cost of the power expended to run the mining hardware. But that may have been before the even-more-recent-ish rally that BTC has had.
I, too, am interested in getting into BTC, but I have no idea how to create a wallet. And I lack basic knowledge about BTC, such as if it's even possible to have a wallet without mining.-Deozaan (November 05, 2015, 07:17 PM)
Yes, you can have a wallet without mining. And you can get into BTC from the exchanges or from other people. My problem is more not knowing where to jump in.
https://bitcoin.org/en/getting-started
http://bitcoinsimplified.org/get-started/how-to-set-up-a-wallet/-wraith808 (November 05, 2015, 11:40 PM)
Well, now I have a bitcoin wallet. Too bad I don't have anything to do with it. :)-Deozaan (November 06, 2015, 02:46 AM)
PM me your address.-Renegade (November 07, 2015, 03:23 AM)
Also, the initial sync was brutal. Over 50GB of blockchain data. If I had known then what I know now, I'd have chosen a different, "lightweight" bitcoin wallet software.-Deozaan (November 08, 2015, 11:16 PM)
Also, the initial sync was brutal. Over 50GB of blockchain data. If I had known then what I know now, I'd have chosen a different, "lightweight" bitcoin wallet software.is that 50GB stored on your machine :tellme:-Deozaan (November 08, 2015, 11:16 PM)-tomos (November 08, 2015, 11:44 PM)
This wallet is a full node that validates and relays transactions on the Bitcoin network. This means no trust in a third party is required when verifying payments. Full nodes provide the highest level of security and are essential to protecting the network. However, they require more space (over 20GB), bandwidth, and a longer initial synchronization time-https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
@Renegade
Does that mean by posting that address above you can now no longer do private transactions?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
or does one usually own multiple addresses?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
or is there such a thing as private and public addresses?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
Concerning addresses: as long as I write down my address (or addresses) somewhere, I can always get back my bitcoins? (even if the machine 'hosting' my wallet dies)-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
Does one usually install multiple wallets on different machines/devices, all working with the same address?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
Is it possible to manage / work with multiple addresses using the same wallet?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
@Deozzan - Check your wallet. I just sent you about $10 in bitcoins. By the time you see this message, it will be in your wallet.-Renegade (November 09, 2015, 01:30 AM)
I only asked that you PM me so that the transaction would be just between you and me.
Bitcoin is "pseudoanonymous". That means that it's not 100% anonymous, but close. As long as nobody knows our addresses, they can't track us.
[...]
Here's an address for me where you can send some just to test:
1F1Eiruf9yzCH49jvjxtajVuzV6mBP3tef-Renegade (November 09, 2015, 01:30 AM)
But I wonder do the "Full Node" wallets get paid anything - like from the transaction fees - for their troubles (space usage etc.)?-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 06:58 AM)
I'm confused about transaction fees. I've read that they're completely optional, but I can't figure out how to make a transaction without including transaction fees. Maybe that's because the client I'm using (Bitcoin Core) doesn't allow that? It has an option I've checked to "send as zero-fee transaction if possible" but when I click send the confirmation screen shows the fee added in there automatically anyway.
The fees are fairly minimal. But when I'm only sending a few cents (in USD) anyway to get a feel for how it works, it kinda sucks losing even a penny of it in fees. Feels kind of like handing a dollar bill to a friend, then having him hand it back and it only being worth 98 cents.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:52 AM)
Quote from: Stoic Joker on Today at 07:58:43 AMBut I wonder do the "Full Node" wallets get paid anything - like from the transaction fees - for their troubles (space usage etc.)?No. They don't get paid anything.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:35 AM)
It would be nice if they did, even if it was only a satoshi (0.00000001 bitcoins) now and then.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:35 AM)
Somebody presumably has to be getting to customary 0.0001 satos trans fee...why not the folks processing the transactions.-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 01:56 PM)
Somebody presumably has to be getting to customary 0.0001 satos trans fee...why not the folks processing the transactions.-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 01:56 PM)
The fee does go to the folks processing the transactions: The miners!-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 04:44 PM)
And a bit of a niggle: A satoshi is the smallest unit of bitcoin, which is 0.00000001 bitcoins. The customary transaction fee is ~0.00001 bitcoins.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 04:44 PM)
Somebody presumably has to be getting to customary 0.0001 satos trans fee...why not the folks processing the transactions.-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 01:56 PM)
The fee does go to the folks processing the transactions: The miners!-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 04:44 PM)
I'm not quite sure that's entirely the case, as there's a fixed number of BTC to mine. So (yes many years in the future), after all the coin has been mined there would be no point in continuing to mine ... So the currency would become worthless because no one would be processing the transactions. Unless there is something else going on in the way of verification ... Got a map of this one Renegade??-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 10:46 PM)
By convention, the first transaction in a block is a special transaction that starts a new coin owned by the creator of the block [the miner]. This adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them. The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended.
The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free.
The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth.-http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
As always customs seem to very, and the wallet default charge I keep running across is ~$0.05 USD or 0.0001 BTC-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 10:46 PM)
@Deozzan - Check your wallet. I just sent you about $10 in bitcoins. By the time you see this message, it will be in your wallet.-Renegade (November 09, 2015, 01:30 AM)
Wow, thanks!-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:35 AM)
If you privately send me some bitcoins, and then I turn around and send some of it back to one of your public addresses, won't that link your public address to the private addresses, just by following the chain back a bit?-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:35 AM)
I guess there's a link there, but there's no proof that a payment to that public address came from me unless I publicize the address I'm paying from. And there's no proof who the owners of the other addresses belong to. Right?-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:35 AM)
I'm not quite sure that's entirely the case, as there's a fixed number of BTC to mine. So (yes many years in the future), after all the coin has been mined there would be no point in continuing to mine ... So the currency would become worthless because no one would be processing the transactions. Unless there is something else going on in the way of verification ... Got a map of this one Renegade??-Stoic Joker (November 09, 2015, 10:46 PM)
I'm confused about transaction fees. I've read that they're completely optional, but I can't figure out how to make a transaction without including transaction fees. Maybe that's because the client I'm using (Bitcoin Core) doesn't allow that? It has an option I've checked to "send as zero-fee transaction if possible" but when I click send the confirmation screen shows the fee added in there automatically anyway.
The fees are fairly minimal. But when I'm only sending a few cents (in USD) anyway to get a feel for how it works, it kinda sucks losing even a penny of it in fees. Feels kind of like handing a dollar bill to a friend, then having him hand it back and it only being worth 98 cents.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:52 AM)
Is there any cheap (regarding transaction + exchange fees) and reliable exchange platforms where I can use my paypal account to buy bitcoins? I need about 50$ (orig currency: €) until friday so it shouldn't take to long to approve the payment method. Not something from china if possible... :)-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 07:21 AM)
Thanks Renegade.
Unfortunately Localbitcoins doesn't provide any options to buy bitcoins via paypal here in my area...
Anyone interested in a personal exchange? I'd pay 44$ via paypal to get back 40$ in bitcoins (10% fee).-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 02:09 PM)
I'm confused about transaction fees. I've read that they're completely optional, but I can't figure out how to make a transaction without including transaction fees. Maybe that's because the client I'm using (Bitcoin Core) doesn't allow that? It has an option I've checked to "send as zero-fee transaction if possible" but when I click send the confirmation screen shows the fee added in there automatically anyway.
The fees are fairly minimal. But when I'm only sending a few cents (in USD) anyway to get a feel for how it works, it kinda sucks losing even a penny of it in fees. Feels kind of like handing a dollar bill to a friend, then having him hand it back and it only being worth 98 cents.-Deozaan (November 09, 2015, 11:52 AM)
That's because Bitcoin is transparent, where dollars, euro, and other fiat currencies are opaque.
[...]
Anyways... the small transaction fee in bitcoin transactions is extremely tiny. The only difference is that you can see it and that nothing is hidden from you.-Renegade (November 10, 2015, 08:47 AM)
@Deozaan
I could wait 'til saturday.-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 03:42 PM)
e's selling them for anywhere between $40-$80 over the current valueCrazy...
selling them for anywhere between $40-$80 over the current valueCrazy...
Anyone else that can sell me ~40$ in bitcoins?-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 04:03 PM)
or does one usually own multiple addresses?-phitsc (November 09, 2015, 07:58 AM)
Yes. A wallet contains many addresses. However, once you start getting up into the thousands of addresses, it's a good idea to create a new wallet to "clean out" your old one.-Renegade (November 09, 2015, 10:11 AM)
Anyone else that can sell me ~40$ in bitcoins?-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 04:03 PM)
I'm still trying to find other ways to get some bitcoins at a fair exchange rate.-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:38 PM)
It's gone down about $10 since I started looking for ways to buy BTC locally (about an hour).-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:38 PM)
I understand that the transaction fee is very small and how great that is compared to our current systems (PayPal, credit cards, etc.). But my question still remains:
I've read/heard that they're completely optional, but I can't figure out how to make a transaction without including transaction fees. Are transaction fees optional or aren't they?-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 03:41 PM)
How do you do this? Just send all your bitcoins to a new wallet? Wouldn't that essentially link all those addresses to one address (the new one) all at once?-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:46 PM)
Anyone interested in a personal exchange? I'd pay 44$ via paypal to get back 40$ in bitcoins (10% fee).-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 02:09 PM)
Just an update to my CoinJar (http://www.coinjar.com) experiment:
ID verification was completed within 3 hours of uploading relevant info, this now lets me transfer up to AU$2500/day into the CoinJar account.
One bank account linked and verified within 6 hours, two remaining bank accounts linked and verified within 48 hours.
Linking a bank account isn't necessary since you can still deposit to your CoinJar account by using BPAYw, (up to 24 hours to process), or POLiw, (up to 48 hours to process).
If nothing else these guys are ridiculously efficient.-4wd (November 12, 2015, 08:27 PM)
If you want to get rid of any linkage, it's pretty easy. You can deposit coins in an exchange, then withdraw a few days later. That isn't a guarantee, but it vastly increases the probability that you don't receive any of your "old" coins.-Renegade (November 11, 2015, 11:11 AM)
Just an update to my CoinJar (http://www.coinjar.com) experiment:
ID verification was completed within 3 hours of uploading relevant info, this now lets me transfer up to AU$2500/day into the CoinJar account.
One bank account linked and verified within 6 hours, two remaining bank accounts linked and verified within 48 hours.
Linking a bank account isn't necessary since you can still deposit to your CoinJar account by using BPAYw, (up to 24 hours to process), or POLiw, (up to 48 hours to process).
If nothing else these guys are ridiculously efficient.-4wd (November 12, 2015, 08:27 PM)
Asher and the guys at Coinjar have worked ridiculously hard against incredible resistance to get things working. I've talked to him about some of those problems on a number of occasions.
What's funny is that both Asher and I have the same problems in using Coinjar due to neither of us being Australian. There are extra hurdles there. He's a good sport about it though.-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 02:00 PM)
It's gone down about $10 since I started looking for ways to buy BTC locally (about an hour).-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:38 PM)
Hell its dropped almost $70 total today. If highend can wait till Saturday he might just get it for a song by then. I can't afford to move any of mine right now, I'm to far under water.-Stoic Joker (November 10, 2015, 10:31 PM)
If you want to get rid of any linkage, it's pretty easy. You can deposit coins in an exchange, then withdraw a few days later. That isn't a guarantee, but it vastly increases the probability that you don't receive any of your "old" coins.-Renegade (November 11, 2015, 11:11 AM)
Can you go into a little more detail about this? Perhaps specifically with how this would work with Coinbase? I was under the assumption that any bitcoins I deposited into Coinbase went into a wallet that belonged to me. So sending them all to Coinbase and then withdrawing them a few days later would just link everything to one address, and then everything from that address would come out into my new wallet, still linked.
Or do you mean sell them all off for fiat currency and then re-buy them all a few days later? Or something else entirely?-Deozaan (November 13, 2015, 03:20 PM)
Can you use CoinJar if you're not from AU? Looks interesting...-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:26 PM)
This is my hesitation in getting in... I just want some for purchases, not for investment. But it's *still* scary!-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:27 PM)
You can completely screw up any kind of "tracking" by doing 1 simple step from above and depositing into a new wallet. If anyone is tracking you, like an ad company, or marketing company, you've just screwed them by creating an entirely new wallet that isn't linked to you. They could try to do pattern matching, but honestly... that's grasping at straws and they're unlikely to ever be able to do that, ever.
(I am missing some highly technical points above, but I've been conservative. For more information you can look into how wallets treat "change". Also look into "dust". It's probably not worth your time.)-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 05:32 PM)
What's funny is that both Asher and I have the same problems in using Coinjar due to neither of us being Australian.-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 02:00 PM)
Can you use CoinJar if you're not from AU? Looks interesting...-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:26 PM)
@Ren: IIRC, you mentioned having an Australian bank account (in another thread) so I would have thought that apart from time taken to verify ID, (with a passport I assume), you would have been OK.
Was there something else I've missed reading in their FAQ/T&C?-4wd (November 14, 2015, 06:40 PM)
Thanks for the more detailed response. Of course I'm not looking to get into anything illegal or even shady. Nevertheless I was curious about the idea of "cleaning" the wallet occasionally. :Thmbsup:-Deozaan (November 13, 2015, 06:12 PM)
@Ren: IIRC, you mentioned having an Australian bank account (in another thread) so I would have thought that apart from time taken to verify ID, (with a passport I assume), you would have been OK.
Was there something else I've missed reading in their FAQ/T&C?-4wd (November 14, 2015, 06:40 PM)
Dammit. I'd share the issue if it were only for me, but I don't want to shed any light on Asher's situation. Sorry.-Renegade (November 15, 2015, 12:05 AM)
The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone. This is similar to the level of information released by stock exchanges, where the time and size of individual trades, the "tape", is made public, but without telling who the parties were.
The 3 Reasons Why Onename Switched from Namecoin to Bitcoin
Onename is the most well-known, blockchain-based online identity system on the market right now, and this is an idea that many Bitcoin enthusiasts believe has true promise. The identity platform, which was founded and created by Ryan Shea and Muneeb Ali, originally used the Namecoin blockchain for storing user data, but the company recently moved to the Bitcoin blockchain (by way of Blockstore). Shea and Ali were recently interviewed for an episode of Epicenter Bitcoin, and Ali stated, “We were one of the largest production systems built on top of Namecoin, and we started noticing certain limitations.”
Muneeb Ali went on to explain three specific limitations that the company found with Namecoin, which eventually led them to develop Blockstore and move over to Bitcoin.
While I love Namecoin, there are problems there. This article tells about how a company moved from Namecoin infrastructure to Bitcoin, and why. The "why" part is pretty important.-Renegade (November 18, 2015, 03:11 PM)
How to Actually Explain Zero Knowledge Protocols to your Child
…because the “child” in Quisquater’s original ZKP paper is waaay smarter than I am, and I’m not sure I count as a child anymore.
Once upon a time, a girl named Pam wanted to make herself a fruit smoothie. However, she didn’t want her friend Victor to drink it, because although Pam and Victor are friends, Victor always drinks Pam’s fruit smoothies without asking and that pisses her off.
Victor also happens to be colorblind, and can’t tell the difference between green and red. He hates spinach as well, and refuses to eat it. Pam decides to capitalize on this by making a green spinach smoothie in addition to her normal red berry smoothie.
Victor walks in to the room and sees Pam standing there with two smoothies. Because of his colorblindness, he has no way to distinguish the smoothies by sight. He is also sick and his nose is plugged up so he cannot distinguish by smell. Anyway, the point is that Victor has no way of telling the two smoothies apart.
“Oh great,” says Victor, “There are two delicious smoothies that I can drink!”
“No,” says Pam, “One smoothie is a spinach smoothie and one smoothie is a berry smoothie.”
“You are lying,” Victor retorts, “They look exactly the same. You just don’t want me to drink your smoothies!”
“Ugh you are so entitled. Don’t accuse me of lying, you greedy bum. I can prove to you that I’m telling the truth *without revealing any information*,” says Pam.
She places the two smoothies in front of Victor and says, “I am going to leave the room. You can choose whether or not to switch the position of the smoothies. Either way, I will be able to tell.”
Pam leaves the room and Victor switches the position of the smoothies, then calls Pam back in to the room.
“So,” says Victor haughtily, confident that Pam will not be able to guess, “Did the position change?”
“Yes, they did!” exclaims Pam, because she is not colorblind and can distinguish by color that the smoothies have moved.
“That was just a lucky guess!” scoffs Victor, “Since there are only two smoothies, the probability that you guessed correctly is 50%. Let’s repeat this experiment again!”
Pam agrees, and leaves the room. When Victor calls her back in, Pam is able to answer correctly again.
“Bollocks!” says Victor. “The probability that you were able to guess correctly twice in a row is 25%, which is still very probable. Let’s try again!”
Victor tries a total of 10 times to befuddle Pam. Each time, she is able to answer correctly. Victor calculates that the probability of Pam guessing correctly ten times in a row is 1/1024, or less than 0.1%, which is enough for him to verify that the smoothies are indeed different and Pam is not guessing.
If Pam and Victor repeat this experiment n times, the probability that she guesses correctly each time would approach zero. So if 0.1% was not low enough for Victor, he could always have tried for 0.00000000000000001%, (which should be low enough for anyone, and if it’s not enough for you, then you probably have other issues to sort out).
Thus, Pam proved to Victor that the smoothies were different without revealing which smoothie was what. Victor was not one to take chances with accidentally eating spinach, so Pam’s smoothies were safe!
Now your child knows some crypto. This pleases you because now you can brag about how your child is better than other children, because you’re a little bit of an ass.
Bitcoin is back up to it's old tricks again... i.e. being UP~! :P :Thmbsup:-Renegade (December 09, 2015, 01:40 AM)
Of course, it wouldn’t be a true Bitcoin story with out a bit of drama thrown in for good measure. That said, The Guardian is reporting that Wright’s home was raided by Australian police following Gizmodo’s published report.More than 10 police personnel arrived at the house in the Sydney suburb of Gordon at about 1.30pm. Two police staff wearing white gloves could be seen from the street searching the cupboards and surfaces of the garage. At least three more were seen from the front door.
Guardian Australia understands the raids are not related to the claims that Wright may have been involved in the creation of bitcoin, but are related to an Australian Tax Office investigation.-http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-creator-revealed-australian-genius-craig-wright-subsequently-132041966.html
Apparently it's a hoax, but we'll see.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3w027x/dr_craig_steven_wright_alleged_satoshi_by_wired/cxslii7-Renegade (December 09, 2015, 07:08 PM)
Microsoft now offering several Blockchains as a Service at Azure
Posted by Luke Parker on 17 December 2015 | Comments
Tags: Adoption, Bitcoin, Dapps
Microsoft Azure is a scalable cloud services platform similar to Amazon’s AWS. It offers cloud-based storage, computing, networking, databases, and enterprise-level management, production and deployment environments, along with advanced services such as analytics.
Using it has been likened to having an IT department outsourced to Microsoft services, as it allows customers to spend more time and resources on building applications that benefit their organization, rather than managing hardware and software. Although only a few years old, Azure faces diverse competition from Amazon, Google, IBM, Oracle, Salesforce.com, VMware, and even open source offerings.
A boy asked his bitcoin-investing father for $10.
Father: $9.82? What do you need $10.08 for?-Renegade (December 22, 2015, 12:44 PM)
David Cameron: Taxes will rise unless we can raid bank accounts
David Cameron claims he will "have to put up taxes" unless tax officials are given draconian powers to raid people's bank accounts
U.S. sponsored report says governments should attack Bitcoin and undermine it
In a world where constant on and offline surveillance by nation states seems to have become the norm, it’s perhaps little wonder that systems aiming to de-centralize services and maintain privacy have become targets.
In a new report, sponsored by the U.S. government, the influential RAND Corporation paints a bleak picture for the future of Bitcoin and other such technologies based around blockchains and encryption. According to this report, Bitcoin and blockchain technologies are actually succeeding in their primary goal of offering de-centralized, anonymized and resilient services to users around the world.
While that may sound like good news for many users, the report goes on to explain that this is in fact “agnostic to the national security interests of the United States”. Another big problem that the advancement of these technologies brings to the table is the dissemination of information regarding online encryption. Apparently, spreading knowledge of means of encryption and security among the general populace is a very bad idea.
The think tank then goes on to suggest that nation-states, particularly the U.S., should attack services like Bitcoin and other blockchain-based systems, through sophisticated technological means, to undermine their key strengths in the public perception: security, stability and privacy.
So why exactly are these systems, including Bitcoin, “agnostic” to the U.S. and other nation states’ interests? The report focuses on the fact that these technologies could be used by groups, maybe terrorists, to set up persistent communications and currencies that could be almost impossible to disrupt. And that sounds bad.
But there’s another argument which comes up again and again in the original report, and that’s simply the fact that nation-states, again particularly focusing on the U.S., would simply be unable to control or interfere in such systems if they’re developed and widespread.
It’s very doubtful that the debate around encryption and privacy will die down anytime soon, and for good reason, as this is perhaps one of the most important issues for human rights at the beginning of this 21st century.
I don't use Bitcoin, but I came across this article which has some pretty dire statements about it:
- The resolution of the Bitcoin experiment (https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.wfyjyw1t4)
I don't know enough about the workings of Bitcoin to know if the article is a good one or not, but it sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about. I'm interested in what you guys think.-mwb1100 (January 15, 2016, 10:59 AM)
I want to see what Renegade thinks. Especially in the light of that troubling PDF he directed us to a bit ago.-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 11:44 AM)
I want to see what Renegade thinks. Especially in the light of that troubling PDF he directed us to a bit ago.-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 11:44 AM)
Me too, I'm just afraid by the time he chimes in it'll be under $200. I hate to 'Panic Sale' the coin, but I'm really really tired of the waiting game...and I have other things - being held up by it - that need to get done.-Stoic Joker (January 15, 2016, 12:57 PM)
Mike, How were you able to sell your coins if your claim “Couldn’t move your existing money” is true?
I think someone who quits an open source project to work for a company that does basically the same (centralized blockchain) should not comment on their previous “employer”. It’s the lowest thing you can do, you lost all credibility and if I were an employer I would never hire someone who just talks crap about an ex-employer.
You do realize that these messages are poisonous to Bitcoin… And that, especially coming from you, this might be a nail in the Bitcoin coffin. I mean, it’s a little petty to spread these articles to destroy the confidence in Bitcoin, just because things didn’t go the way you wanted it to go. There would’ve been better solutions… I’m just saying, we all have a problem now… I hope Bitcoin won’t respond too much to this article..
I want to see what Renegade thinks.-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 11:44 AM)
Personally I wish the Son-of-a-Bitch would have kept his freaking teeth shut. I was about to do a selloff, but now I can't without screwing myself through the floor.-Stoic Joker (January 15, 2016, 11:30 AM)
Personally I wish the Son-of-a-Bitch would have kept his freaking teeth shut. I was about to do a selloff, but now I can't without screwing myself through the floor.-Stoic Joker (January 15, 2016, 11:30 AM)
The SOB isnotbeing paid by the banksters. Yep. Them. Literally.-Renegade (January 15, 2016, 11:06 PM)
I should have posted this before, but here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/413pwp/mike_hearns_latest_blog_post_was_a_strategic_move/-Renegade (January 16, 2016, 02:33 AM)
When misinformed investors lose money, government attention frequently follows.if only to say that in that context, people who use Bitcoin as an investment probably shouldn't be. Yes, I understand the ups and downs of Bitcoin value can be played just like the stock market or other investment venture, and many people have. Some have done well and others have lost their shirts. So far, it seems most of the players involved understand the risks of doing such business with a new system outside of authoritative oversight, but I sincerely believe that doing such should be actively discouraged, as it only takes one idiot with less sense than the amount of money they lost for Bitcoin to come under very unwanted scrutiny. So far it's been fortunate; most of those buying in seem to be in it for the technical and socio-economic merits (even 'investors'), not for any notion of convenience or stability. But I wonder if a "tipping point" may come before it is fully mature; where enough clueless users join up expecting it to be some magically 'better' transaction system with no notion of how the thing actually works, then complain when the value dips.
If you read the article, some people ask some really good questions of him... that he doesn't answer.Mike, How were you able to sell your coins if your claim “Couldn’t move your existing money” is true?-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
I think someone who quits an open source project to work for a company that does basically the same (centralized blockchain) should not comment on their previous "employer". It’s the lowest thing you can do, you lost all credibility and if I were an employer I would never hire someone who just talks crap about an ex-employer.-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
You do realize that these messages are poisonous to Bitcoin… And that, especially coming from you, this might be a nail in the Bitcoin coffin. I mean, it’s a little petty to spread these articles to destroy the confidence in Bitcoin, just because things didn’t go the way you wanted it to go. There would’ve been better solutions… I’m just saying, we all have a problem now… I hope Bitcoin won’t respond too much to this article..-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
The data show consensus amongst miners for an immediate 2 MB increase, and demand amongst users for 8 MB or more. We are writing the software that miners and users say they want. We will make sure that it solves their needs, help them deploy it, and gracefully upgrade the bitcoin network’s capacity together.
We call our code repository Bitcoin Classic. It starts as a one-feature patch to bitcoin-core that increases the blocksize limit to 2 MB.-http://bitcoinclassic.com/
1- Is it true that raising the blocksize limit is bad, and more specifically, in the way that Maxwell says it is? [EDIT] Partially answered, see below.-Edvard (January 18, 2016, 03:24 PM)
2- Are dissenting opinions really being wholesale censored by those who side with Bitcoin Core over those who disagree? Ignoring that which you don't feel like answering is one thing, attempting to answer regardless if the questioner takes it is better, actively killing the conversation with censorship is just... really bad.-Edvard (January 18, 2016, 03:24 PM)
Also, this should improve the temperature of the conversation around scaling and relevant to question #1.
https://medium.com/@ryanshea/the-scaling-announcement-bitcoin-core-should-have-made-146790f755df#.inxhnxuig
To Maxwell's (and other devs) credit, there IS a commitment to incremental capacity increases that has been in place since Dec 7, 2015:
https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases-Edvard (January 18, 2016, 03:24 PM)
> The size of of a Seg-Wit transaction is counted as 25% hence resulting in just under 4x the 1MB hard limit. Non witness data is counted the same as usual at 100% of it's size.
No, the size of the witness portion of a SegWit transaction is counted 25%. A SegWit transaction can be split into two parts: the transaction data (i.e. where the coins come from, how many coins, where they go to), and the witness data (the signatures and scripts you use to prove that you're allowed to spend the coins). It's only the second half of the transaction, the witness data, that gets the 75% discount. This means that transactions that have a lot of signatures (e.g. large multisig) benefit much more than typical transactions.
> Deploy segregated witness soft-fork April 2016 (tentative) resulting in a maximum blocksize just under 4MB if only segregated witness is used for transactions.... Reaching 4MB is unlikely as blocks are a mixture of both seg-wit and non seg-wit transactions.
Segregated witness is nearly 4 MB if only 15-of-15 multisig segwit transactions are used. If only segregated witness p2pkh transactions are used, the limit is 1.6 MB. if 100% 2-of-2 multisig with SW, then 2 MB. If a mix of SW transactions that resembles the current mix in terms of the amount of multisig is used, then 1.75 MB. If the current mix is used but only 50% are SW, then 1.375 MB.-https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3zuhnu/summary_of_major_blocksize_proposals/cypcobn
If you read the article, some people ask some really good questions of him... that he doesn't answer.Mike, How were you able to sell your coins if your claim “Couldn’t move your existing money” is true?-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
Simple. Right now, because of the low blocksize limit, transactions with higher fees are accepted/added to the blockchain by miners while transactions with lower fees are delayed/ignored. You can easily move your money if you're willing to pay exorbitant fees.
Just a couple of months ago I could make transactions for a couple of cents. Now I've heard the average transaction fee is about 10 cents. While still relatively low, there is no reason for artificially increasing the fees by keeping the blocksize limit small as the miner reward of 25BTC is still pretty significant! Even when it halves to 12.5BTC (scheduled to happen in about 6 months) that's ~$4,750 every ten minutes at the current exchange rate.I think someone who quits an open source project to work for a company that does basically the same (centralized blockchain) should not comment on their previous "employer". It’s the lowest thing you can do, you lost all credibility and if I were an employer I would never hire someone who just talks crap about an ex-employer.-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
This isn't a question.You do realize that these messages are poisonous to Bitcoin… And that, especially coming from you, this might be a nail in the Bitcoin coffin. I mean, it’s a little petty to spread these articles to destroy the confidence in Bitcoin, just because things didn’t go the way you wanted it to go. There would’ve been better solutions… I’m just saying, we all have a problem now… I hope Bitcoin won’t respond too much to this article..-wraith808 (January 15, 2016, 02:07 PM)
This also isn't a question.-Deozaan (January 18, 2016, 05:01 PM)
We see that pedantry hasn't helped the situation. However, his answers to those non questions but definitely queries could go a lot towards his reasons behind posting the article at this point, and engagement with the community that he dropped this load on would be a good measure towards showing that the reasons for such are not self-serving nor self-aggrandizing. If you're going to drop an article like this and not engage, it becomes an open letter, and you shouldn't even open up the comments section, IMO.-wraith808 (January 20, 2016, 03:31 PM)
I sold the last batch of my coins in December, a few days after the second “Scaling Bitcoin” conference. Since that time I haven’t had any positions in any cryptocurrencies, long or short, and no way to make profit or loss off anything that is happening to Bitcoin.
Some people suggested that there is some sort of banker conspiracy, because after I privately concluded Bitcoin wasn’t working I took a job with a startup that’s looking at how to apply distributed ledger technology in the existing financial system (R3 CEV). This isn’t a secret: there were stories in the press about it in November. It was also mentioned in the New York Times article. I didn’t mention this in my post because R3 is not a Bitcoin company, or even a cryptocurrency company, and there is no “BankCoin” or “R3Coin”. So this is really nothing to do with them and conspiracy theories are just a waste of time when there are more serious issues to consider.-https://medium.com/@octskyward/a-small-followup-aa399a83acbb#.7oncywoh1
BITCOIN: TOO BIG TO FAIL
Can't get to link. At least, not without disabling ad blockers.I got through (w. uBlock origin) but it wants email address after looking at a couple of pages-wraith808 (January 24, 2016, 10:02 AM)
Can't get to link. At least, not without disabling ad blockers.I got through (w. uBlock origin) but it wants email address after looking at a couple of pages-wraith808 (January 24, 2016, 10:02 AM)-tomos (January 24, 2016, 11:01 AM)
Can't get to link. At least, not without disabling ad blockers.-wraith808 (January 24, 2016, 10:02 AM)
The death of bitcoin has been proclaimed once again. Prominent developer Mike Hearn’s recent comments that the bitcoin experiment was over mark the 89th time the digital currency has been pronounced dead since it first launched in 2009, at least according to one website dedicated to tracking bitcoin obituaries. While it’s sad to see a talented programmer like Hearn turn his back on bitcoin, there are still thousands of people working on making the world’s first digital currency a success.
The bitcoin network has been running without interruption for seven years now; a feat no banking system can claim. Bitcoin and its underlying blockchain technology—an online ledger that records every bitcoin transaction—represent a fundamental innovation that can dramatically speed up transaction times. The first step is replacing our need for financial middlemen. Next, we can restructure notaries, land registries, stock markets and much more.
People have criticized bitcoin for its price fluctuations but there are applications now that lock the value of bitcoin to dollars, euros or gold; people have insinuated it could be used by drugs or arms dealers operating on the dark web even though the U.K. government said bitcoin was the least likely funding tool for criminality; people have worried that regulation might discourage innovation. Meanwhile bitcoin continues to grow.
Subscribe now - Free phone/tablet charger worth over $60
Hearn’s criticisms that the bitcoin network isn’t set up to support the ever-increasing number of transactions performed on it is more a reflection of the currency’s success. It’s true that if bitcoin keeps growing as quickly as it has in the past few months parts of the network will need to be upgraded. This is a good problem to have.
What began as a small experiment is now a rapidly expanding ecosystem. There are so many people using it now that we have to plan for more capacity. It was never a secret that the software powering bitcoin would have to get upgraded occasionally—just like the software on your iPhone. Let’s look at the data. According to Bloomberg, bitcoin was the best performing currency in 2015. Why? More than 5 million new users started transacting in bitcoin last year alone. More importantly, the total transaction volume has more than doubled over the past 12 months.
bitcoin too big to fail blockchain
A graph displaying the increase in Bitcoin transactions since the beginning of 2009.
BLOCKCHAIN.INFO
The Bitcoin blockchain will catalyze innovation over the coming years. As citizens of the internet we demand transparency and ease of use. In 2016 people expect to be able to send money over the internet as quickly and cheaply as sending an email. The fact that it still takes several days to send an international money transfer is a throwback to yesteryear. Bitcoin solves that problem.
This currency is not a “failed experiment,” as Hearn suggested. Our firm, Blockchain (a bitcoin wallet provider), had its best month yet in December. All successful projects face problems as they grow, thankfully there are a multitude of brilliant minds working to solve them. In five years, hundreds of millions of users will be sending money on the internet as easily as they send chats, and the only obituaries being written will be those of the traditional banks.
Nicolas Cary is the co-founder of Blockchain, the world's leading bitcoin software company with over 5.5 million wallets.
Ah forget it! I'm starting to sound as conspiracy theory loving as Ren. :-))-40hz (January 24, 2016, 03:47 PM)
P.S. Hey Ren! How's it going? Move completed ok?-40hz (January 24, 2016, 03:47 PM)
BITCOIN: TOO BIG TO FAIL-Renegade (January 24, 2016, 12:36 AM)
BITCOIN: TOO BIG TO FAIL-Renegade (January 24, 2016, 12:36 AM)
I bet they used to say that about the Knights Templar ... Until the first Friday the 13th rolled around.-Stoic Joker (January 25, 2016, 06:56 AM)
BITCOIN: TOO BIG TO FAIL-Renegade (January 24, 2016, 12:36 AM)
I bet they used to say that about the Knights Templar ... Until the first Friday the 13th rolled around.-Stoic Joker (January 25, 2016, 06:56 AM)
Wow! Way to go SJ! :Thmbsup: Interesting observation when you think about the not inconsiderable similarities between the services offered by the two. Or their relative status in the eyes of the respective Powers That Be...
Just goes to illustrate why it may be a good thing to be considered useful by kings - but never so useful that kings start to feel beholden to you after a while. They're somewhat notorious for requesting "new game" by the simple expedient of flipping the table over...and then shooting their unarmed opponent.
Bitcoin holders better hope that doesn't turn out to be prescient on your part. :tellme:-40hz (January 25, 2016, 03:14 PM)
I finally came up with a use for Bitcoin on Tuesday. I bought a 1981 Harley-Davidson (Shovelhead) FLT:-Stoic Joker (February 11, 2016, 12:19 PM)
One year ago i tried a little experiment with BIP38 paper wallets. [...]
I am quite surprised that "6 character" wallet is still loaded with bitcoin. Looks like encrypted paper wallets give you quite high level of security even with very modest passwords. Lets not forget that hacker has to first get his hands on physical BIP38 wallet before he can even start cracking...
I decided to keep this experiment going for another year. I've also added extra 0.5BTC - so happy cracking!
Details:
pub: 1J5cjne6YVkgRTMTjqnaJVk1CWEEr3CcdX
b38: 6PfRB98F9vZLhSpqY5URas5vYUU3qYQrpkJFTLuCg1FvDni6LwT3qAirkp
pwd: 6 characters (only upper and lower case US alphabet letters)
Here is a small hint for you: If you divide the number of UPPERCASE letters by the number of lowercase letters you get an integer.-https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4dkw1q/no_one_cracked_05btc_paperwallet_with_easy/
Anyone happy with the new ATH?-Renegade (March 05, 2017, 11:43 PM)
It's not me, at least I'm not aware of me being internationally known outside of DoCo :tellme:Anyone happy with the new ATH?-Renegade (March 05, 2017, 11:43 PM)
Um... ATH?? What is this ATH of which you speak? ...I'm waiting to see how the SEC/ETF thing plays out. Is it anything to do with (/like) that?-Stoic Joker (March 06, 2017, 06:35 AM)
Anyone happy with the new ATH?-Renegade (March 05, 2017, 11:43 PM)
@Ren - you'll appreciate this. Yours truly used Bitcoin for the first time just recently. Interesting. 8)-40hz (March 07, 2017, 06:19 PM)
It's the Internet of money now.Woohoo! Me and my hard-earned bitnickel (.05 bitcoin) are ridin' high! It took how long for two hard working slow machines with old video cards to generate that much from one of the shared pools...-Renegade (March 12, 2017, 01:15 AM)
Move Over, Bitcoin. Ether Is the Digital Currency of the Moment (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/busness/dealbook/ethereum-bitcoin-digital-currency.html?_r=0)-Arizona Hot (June 19, 2017, 04:18 PM)
AlphaBay taken down by law enforcement across 3 countries, WSJ says (https://arstechnica.com/?p=1132709)
tags: Law & Disorder, alexandre cazes, alphabay, Silk Road
Cyrus Farivar
(Image)
AlphaBay, one of the largest Tor-hidden drug websites that sprang up in the wake of Silk Road, has been shuttered for good after a series of law enforcement raids and arrests.
The site mysteriously went dark earlier this month. Some users on Reddit suspected an "exit scam," in which AlphaBay's founders had shuttered the site and absconded with piles of bitcoins.
According to The Wall Street Journal, which reported the news on Thursday, police in the United States, Canada, and Thailand collaborated to arrest Alexandre Cazes, who allegedly was the head of the online operation. The Canadian citizen was arrested on July 5 in Thailand, the same day that two raids on residences in Quebec, Canada, were executed. On Wednesday, Cazes was found dead, hanged in his Thai jail cell.
The Bangkok Post, citing Thai police sources, reported that Cazes had been living in Thailand for about eight years. Thai authorities also impounded "four Lamborghini cars and three houses worth about 400 million baht ($11.7 million) in total."
Cazes' name does not appear in a search of federal court records, but if any charges do exist, they may still be sealed.
Ross Ulbricht, the young Texan who was convicted of creating and operating Silk Road, was given a double life sentence—which was upheld earlier this year on appeal. Ulbricht was also known as "Dread Pirate Roberts."
The Department of Justice did not immediately respond to Ars' request for comment.
Cazes was found dead, hanged in his Thai jail cell.-IainB (July 14, 2017, 03:48 PM)
Some people (not me, you understand) might say - as you do - that Cazes' unfortunate death in prison was convenient for the Thai government, but I couldn't possibly comment.Cazes was found dead, hanged in his Thai jail cell.How convenient for the Thai government.-IainB (July 14, 2017, 03:48 PM)
_________________________________-Arizona Hot (July 15, 2017, 11:04 AM)
Bitcoin cash is crashing (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-cash-price-crashing-2017-8)There's a rather interesting potential explanation as to why that might be happening - it could be part of a deliberate, concerted attack by The Establishment.
________________________________-Arizona Hot (August 23, 2017, 12:03 PM)
Bitcoin cash is crashing (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-cash-price-crashing-2017-8)-Arizona Hot (August 23, 2017, 12:03 PM)
The costly mistake bitcoin investors are probably making (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2017/11/05/the-costly-mistake-bitcoin-investors-are-probably-making/107257984/)-Arizona Hot (November 06, 2017, 12:17 AM)
I'm involved in a project that's now publicly open. (Check bounties below.)
Chimaera is a blockchain gaming platform. If you remember Huntercoin (it's still running), Chimaera can put countless games with near limitless players on the blockchain. We've solved the scalability issues, so the sky's the limit.-Renegade (October 15, 2017, 07:27 PM)
The real question is.. some of you crazy people who were ranting about it, and telling us how bitcoin was going to take off during the early days of it.. are any of you rich enough to retire and bankroll the rest of us yet?-mouser (November 06, 2017, 02:49 AM)
The real question is.. some of you crazy people who were ranting about it, and telling us how bitcoin was going to take off during the early days of it.. are any of you rich enough to retire and bankroll the rest of us yet?-mouser (November 06, 2017, 02:49 AM)
Stoic Joker? Did you sell off your entire stash for that motorcycle, or did you keep some of your BTC you spent so much time and effort (and USD) mining?
And also I'm curious if 40hz's opinion of BTC has changed at all over the years since this thread began.-Deozaan (November 07, 2017, 02:20 AM)
Note: It was worth it.. ;)-Stoic Joker (November 07, 2017, 12:10 PM)
Note: It was worth it.. ;)-Stoic Joker (November 07, 2017, 12:10 PM)
;D :Thmbsup:-Deozaan (November 07, 2017, 12:24 PM)
Note: It was worth it.. ;)-Stoic Joker (November 07, 2017, 12:10 PM)
;D :Thmbsup:-Deozaan (November 07, 2017, 12:24 PM)
I wish I had that problem :) :Thmbsup:-wraith808 (November 07, 2017, 02:46 PM)
Buy when everyone else is selling and hold until everyone else is buying. That's not just a catchy slogan. It's the very essence of successful investing.
- J. PAUL GETTY.
____________________________________________
"To avoid taxes, in life have all capital but no income; in death have all income but no capital."
____________________________________________
just send beer. :DI'll drink one for you ;-)-Stoic Joker (November 08, 2017, 01:14 PM)
Which fee should I use?
The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 300 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 67,800 satoshis.-https://bitcoinfees.earn.com
Total received from those 12 payments was 287mBTC which apparently is worth about $2,000 USD currently :huh:-mouser (November 08, 2017, 03:09 PM)
That's about $5 to send a transaction at current prices. And if you have a bunch of small amounts in different addresses, which is the recommended way to do it for privacy, transactions can easily be over 1,000 bytes (or over $20 in fees to send a transaction). And if you try to pay a lower fee, you could be waiting days before your transaction finally goes through, if it ever does.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
My question is, does anyone here still use Bitcoin?-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
Total received from those 12 payments was 287mBTC which apparently is worth about $2,000 USD currently :huh:-mouser (November 08, 2017, 03:09 PM)
wow, maybe it's time to cash in?
then again...-tomos (November 08, 2017, 03:16 PM)
I still try to follow the news, and I still have some BTC, but I hate to use it because it's just so expensive these days.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
At least hold until after the SegWitx2 split on the 16th, then at least you get "free" coin - of questionable value - off the new fork.-Stoic Joker (November 08, 2017, 03:47 PM)
IIUC the cost in satoshis per transaction hasn't changed. It's just that with the rise in the coins value the # of satoshis the transaction cost are worth more. So technically we've always paid the same...it's just more noticeable now.-Stoic Joker (November 08, 2017, 03:54 PM)
That's about $5 to send a transaction at current prices. And if you have a bunch of small amounts in different addresses, which is the recommended way to do it for privacy, transactions can easily be over 1,000 bytes (or over $20 in fees to send a transaction). And if you try to pay a lower fee, you could be waiting days before your transaction finally goes through, if it ever does.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
it's ironic that it's so user-un-friendly, considering the opposite was the intention.
Was that covered here in this thread -- how that changed-tomos (November 08, 2017, 03:45 PM)
My question is, does anyone here still use Bitcoin?-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
I'm still mining it. I used the (mined post Alice) coin we had to upgrade the pair of S2's to a single S9 (way cheaper to run) back in May. The S9 has managed to produce about 0.62 since then running out of the AntPool.-Stoic Joker (November 08, 2017, 03:45 PM)
PMIIUC the cost in satoshis per transaction hasn't changed. It's just that with the rise in the coins value the # of satoshis the transaction cost are worth more. So technically we've always paid the same...it's just more noticeable now.That's not (entirely) correct. You could always customize the amount of satoshis per byte you paid with your transaction, and there used to be a time when you could set the fee to 0 and still get your transaction included within a few blocks because there was extra space for it. But now that blocks are full, you have to pay more satoshis per byte to get your transaction included or else risk having your transaction stuck in limbo for days.That said, it is true that the increasing value of each BTC is making the fees more noticable in USD amounts. Even if you only paid 1 satoshi per byte on a regular ~220 byte transaction, that's still about 1.5 cents at today's current price.Back when I first got into Bitcoin toward the end of 2015, I sent a test transaction to Renegade after he sent me what was then just a few dollars worth of BTC (now worth almost $200! Wish I had kept it...). I paid 5 sat/byte for that transaction, which at the time was less than 1 cent. But now the recommended fee is 300 sat/byte to get your transaction included quickly.-Stoic Joker on Today at 04:54-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
0.62 BTC is a pretty good haul at current prices.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 05:14 PM)
But now the recommended fee is 300 sat/byte (https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/) to get your transaction included quickly.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
But now the recommended fee is 300 sat/byte (https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/) to get your transaction included quickly.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
Since I wrote this, I just went back to that tab to close it and the recommended fee has increased to 310 sat/byte. :(
1 satoshi/byte is about 1.7 cents per 226 byte transaction at current prices, or about 7.7 cents per kilobyte. Imagine if your ISP charged you 7.7 cents for every kB you transferred. That's ~$78.64/MB, or ~$80,530.64/GB, or ~$82,463,372.08 per TB. :tellme:-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 05:44 PM)
Yes.
http://www.donationc....msg394988#msg394988
In a nutshell: The Bitcoin "Core" developers refuse to increase the blocksize limit from 1MB to anything larger even though people and developers and businesses have been clamoring for an increase for years. So the blocks are at full capacity. Which means if you want your transaction included in the blockchain, you need to compete with others for the limited space in each block. The only way to incentivize a miner to include your transaction over others is by paying higher fees than others. But everyone else is also trying to pay higher fees than everyone else so they can get their transaction included, so the fees just go higher and higher. Meanwhile more and more transactions are being added to the backlog. So if you intentionally try to get away with paying a low fee, you could be waiting days for your transaction to clear (the backlog tends to catch up over the weekend). And even if you pay what your software deems a decent fee, but for some reason fees skyrocket due to sudden increased demand (making miners consider your fee to be a comparatively "low" fee), then you could be waiting days for your transaction to clear anyway.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
is now worth about $22.50), he has finally taken an interest in crypto, and asked me how to access the funds I gave him. But it would cost ~$5 in transaction fees for him to do anything with it so I've told him not to bother.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
one question - does that fee go up exponentially -- if someone wants to transfer more bitcoin, will it cost proportionally more?-tomos (November 10, 2017, 04:49 AM)
The real question is.. some of you crazy people who were ranting about it, and telling us how bitcoin was going to take off during the early days of it.. are any of you rich enough to retire and bankroll the rest of us yet?-mouser (November 06, 2017, 02:49 AM)
Would you mind briefly explaining how you solved the scalability issues? And what you mean by that? Or if it's in the whitepaper just say so and I'll try to get the time to finally read through it.-Deozaan (November 06, 2017, 02:59 AM)
But the reason I ask is because scalability seems to be a major issue in most of the major cryptos, especially Bitcoin. There are lots of interesting ideas out there on how to resolve or work around the issues, but as far as I know things like sidechains (Lightning, Raiden, Plasma, etc.,) are all still currently being researched and/or developed but nothing is actually released and running on the network(s) yet. If you're talking about scalability in a similar sense as for other blockchains, then solving the scalability issues could be really big news for cryptocurrency in general. :Thmbsup:-Deozaan (November 06, 2017, 02:59 AM)
Due to encouragement of the bitcoin evangelists here on DC I did eventually provide a bitcoin address for people who wanted to donate to DC via bitcoin, back in 2015.
There have been a total of 12 payments received in that 2 year period.
Total received from those 12 payments was 287mBTC which apparently is worth about $2,000 USD currently :huh:-mouser (November 08, 2017, 03:09 PM)
That's about $5 to send a transaction at current prices. And if you have a bunch of small amounts in different addresses, which is the recommended way to do it for privacy, transactions can easily be over 1,000 bytes (or over $20 in fees to send a transaction). And if you try to pay a lower fee, you could be waiting days before your transaction finally goes through, if it ever does.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
it's ironic that it's so user-un-friendly, considering the opposite was the intention.
Was that covered here in this thread -- how that changed (I think it was, but I'm being a lazy beggar here - I mostly work on memory first, then search, but tonight I'm leaving out the search part...)-tomos (November 08, 2017, 03:45 PM)
That's about $5 to send a transaction at current prices. And if you have a bunch of small amounts in different addresses, which is the recommended way to do it for privacy, transactions can easily be over 1,000 bytes (or over $20 in fees to send a transaction). And if you try to pay a lower fee, you could be waiting days before your transaction finally goes through, if it ever does.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 02:55 PM)
it's ironic that it's so user-un-friendly, considering the opposite was the intention.-tomos (November 08, 2017, 03:45 PM)
Was that covered here in this thread -- how that changed (I think it was, but I'm being a lazy beggar here - I mostly work on memory first, then search, but tonight I'm leaving out the search part...)-tomos (November 08, 2017, 03:45 PM)
Back when I first got into Bitcoin toward the end of 2015, I sent a test transaction to Renegade (https://blockchain.info/tx/191e91f7b4ed64e11c801285b5ff13dca32f43208b132ec5f2ce478d8128bebd) after he sent me what was then just a few dollars worth of BTC (now worth almost $200! Wish I had kept it...). I paid 5 sat/byte for that transaction, which at the time was less than 1 cent. But now the recommended fee is 300 sat/byte (https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/) to get your transaction included quickly.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
To further illustrate the point: Just for fun back in 2015 I gave a friend $1 worth of BTC for Christmas (the low value was an inside joke) to try to get him interested in cryptocurrency. It failed to pique his interest. With the value of BTC going up so much this year (by my calculations that $1 gift is now worth about $22.50), he has finally taken an interest in crypto, and asked me how to access the funds I gave him. But it would cost ~$5 in transaction fees for him to do anything with it so I've told him not to bother.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
In a nutshell: The Bitcoin "Core" developers refuse to increase the blocksize limit from 1MB to anything larger even though people and developers and businesses have been clamoring for an increase for years. So the blocks are at full capacity. Which means if you want your transaction included in the blockchain, you need to compete with others for the limited space in each block. The only way to incentivize a miner to include your transaction over others is by paying higher fees than others. But everyone else is also trying to pay higher fees than everyone else so they can get their transaction included, so the fees just go higher and higher. Meanwhile more and more transactions are being added to the backlog. So if you intentionally try to get away with paying a low fee, you could be waiting days for your transaction to clear (the backlog tends to catch up over the weekend). And even if you pay what your software deems a decent fee, but for some reason fees skyrocket due to sudden increased demand (making miners consider your fee to be a comparatively "low" fee), then you could be waiting days for your transaction to clear anyway.-Deozaan (November 08, 2017, 04:43 PM)
The Core devs rock.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
But, for the block size, that's a bit misleading.
The idea is to off-load transactions into Lightning Networks. That will solve scaling issue massively.
Those will take off next year.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
This is just the beginning. There's a long way to go.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
Right now Bitcoin is NOTHING in the financial world. It's a blip. A curiosity.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
If you're not in already, do your due diligence and think about whether BTC has a place in your portfolio.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 950 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 214,700 satoshis.-https://bitcoinfees.earn.com
The Blockstream fanboys would further point at bitcoin’s new uselessness as a sign of its success, believe it or not, drawing the analogy “nobody goes to that restaurant anymore, because it’s too crowded”, with the subtext that a crowded restaurant must be successful. But this is not success; this is utter failure to scale exponentially when you’re an Internet startup, and it spells dooooooooooom.-https://falkvinge.net/2017/11/17/new-google-management-decided-search-cost-20-take-eight-hours-deliberately-unreliable-bitcoin/
And so here we are in 2017, with a bitcoin that nobody I know uses for anything practical (last time I used it for something was about six weeks ago, when I bought a burger with bitcoin, which cost me about $2.50 in transaction fees, just as much as the burger itself; at least I didn’t have to wait eight to ten hours for the burger). What’s new on the scene in 2017 is something called a US Dollar Tether.
You see, you can’t buy big quantities of bitcoin — which is more or less “Blockstream stock” at this point — directly, not in amounts of millions of US Dollars. So this thing called Tether popped up, where a company named Tether claimed to issue US Dollar Tether, where one Tether was supposed to be good for exactly one US dollar. Today, the bitcoin price (the price of something that is unreliable, slow, and expensive, and which nobody uses anymore for anything remotely practical) isn’t driven up by people buying it for US Dollars anymore, but by institutions buying it for large amounts of Tether, which is “kind-of-dollars-but-not-really-but-we-still-pretend-so”.
The company Tether insists that they have backing; every Tether has a US Dollar backing it. There has been no proof to this. There have just been regular conjurings-up of new batches of ten, twenty, thirty million Tethers — not US Dollars, but Tethers — that are spent pushing up the bitcoin price as though the Tethers were dollars, and this happens basically every time the Blockstream PR machine happens to need a little boost. Maybe the Tethers are backed by dollars on a one-to-one ratio, as is asserted and refused to be proven. Maybe they aren’t. Sure as hell doesn’t look like they are.
This whole story reeks of a lot of people going to a lot of prison in a few years.-https://falkvinge.net/2017/11/17/new-google-management-decided-search-cost-20-take-eight-hours-deliberately-unreliable-bitcoin/
I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
Bitcoin has a problem when one its most ardent supporters you know says things like this:
Quote from: Renegade on November 11, 2017, 01:21 AM
I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat.-Deozaan (November 17, 2017, 10:09 PM)
I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat. Because it's less valuable. I HODL.-Renegade (November 10, 2017, 11:21 PM)
quotes got a bit messed up there wraith, but point still clear.-tomos (November 18, 2017, 03:58 AM)
If recent news is anything to go by, the future of atomic cross-chain trading looks bright. Creator of Litecoin, Charlie Lee, successfully completed atomic swaps using Litecoin in exchange for Bitcoin, Vertcoin and Decred.
And I'm also not sure what any variant of Bitcoin offers these days over other cryptos that haven't had development stalled for the past 2 years. I think Dash has integrated some cool features (like InstantSend, PrivateSend, and their treasury to help fund continued development). I think Ethereum is pretty interesting because you can run programs on the blockchain.-Deozaan (November 17, 2017, 10:09 PM)
Bitcoin has a problem when one its most ardent supporters you know says things like this:
Quote from: Renegade on November 11, 2017, 01:21 AM
I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat.-Deozaan (November 17, 2017, 10:09 PM)
That was taken horribly out of context.I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat. Because it's less valuable. I HODL.-Deozaan (November 17, 2017, 10:09 PM)
In other words, he sends fiat because fiat won't go up in value. Bitcoin will. BTW, HODL means to hold, as many people do with stocks.-wraith808 (November 17, 2017, 10:38 PM)
It seems that late in 2010, Satoshi realized there had to be a maximum block size, otherwise some miners might produce bigger blocks than other miners were willing to accept, and the chain could split. Therefore, Satoshi inserted a 1 MB limit into the code.
A misunderstanding there: the quote tags got mixed up in your post.quotes got a bit messed up there wraith, but point still clear.-tomos (November 18, 2017, 03:58 AM)
We'll have to agree to disagree. He's not sending because of the value is a very salient rebuttal to the he's not sending because of some other reason.-wraith808 (November 18, 2017, 09:19 AM)
Hay, does anybody know how the hell you're supposed to get the BCH from the BTC fork back in August?? I had some coin in an old Multibit wallet back then, but I gots no clue on how to jump the fork (for lack of a better/correct term) with it..-Stoic Joker (November 20, 2017, 01:21 PM)
Thought this might be interesting to some: Successful completion of the first off-chain atomic swap (https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2017/11/16/ln-swap.html).-Stoic Joker (November 20, 2017, 01:21 PM)
However, make sure that you are very careful with your private keys, as if anyone sees them, all your coins are GONE-Renegade (November 20, 2017, 05:02 PM)
Bitcoin has a problem when one its most ardent supporters you know says things like this:
Quote from: Renegade on November 11, 2017, 01:21 AM
I don't send my friends BTC. I send fiat.-Deozaan (November 17, 2017, 10:09 PM)
That was taken horribly out of context.-wraith808 (November 17, 2017, 10:38 PM)
And, if I really need faster or cheaper payments, I can always use Monero or Dash or whatever.-Renegade (November 18, 2017, 11:27 AM)
Regarding Rick Falkvinge, he's being a dishonest shill. [...] If he wants free transactions, there are plenty of coins out there.
[...]
Rick, Roger, Jihan, and the rest of them are behaving like petulant children. Their temper tantrums over scaling aren't helping anyone.-Renegade (November 18, 2017, 11:27 AM)
As of today, Steam will no longer support Bitcoin as a payment method on our platform due to high fees and volatility in the value of Bitcoin.
In the past few months we've seen an increase in the volatility in the value of Bitcoin and a significant increase in the fees to process transactions on the Bitcoin network. For example, transaction fees that are charged to the customer by the Bitcoin network have skyrocketed this year, topping out at close to $20 a transaction last week (compared to roughly $0.20 when we initially enabled Bitcoin). Unfortunately, Valve has no control over the amount of the fee. These fees result in unreasonably high costs for purchasing games when paying with Bitcoin. The high transaction fees cause even greater problems when the value of Bitcoin itself drops dramatically.
Historically, the value of Bitcoin has been volatile, but the degree of volatility has become extreme in the last few months, losing as much as 25% in value over a period of days. This creates a problem for customers trying to purchase games with Bitcoin. When checking out on Steam, a customer will transfer x amount of Bitcoin for the cost of the game, plus y amount of Bitcoin to cover the transaction fee charged by the Bitcoin network. The value of Bitcoin is only guaranteed for a certain period of time so if the transaction doesn’t complete within that window of time, then the amount of Bitcoin needed to cover the transaction can change. The amount it can change has been increasing recently to a point where it can be significantly different.
The normal resolution for this is to either refund the original payment to the user, or ask the user to transfer additional funds to cover the remaining balance. In both these cases, the user is hit with the Bitcoin network transaction fee again. This year, we’ve seen increasing number of customers get into this state. With the transaction fee being so high right now, it is not feasible to refund or ask the customer to transfer the missing balance (which itself runs the risk of underpayment again, depending on how much the value of Bitcoin changes while the Bitcoin network processes the additional transfer).
At this point, it has become untenable to support Bitcoin as a payment option. We may re-evaluate whether Bitcoin makes sense for us and for the Steam community at a later date.
We will continue working to resolve any pending issues for customers who are impacted by existing underpayments or transaction fees.-https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1464096684955433613
I just sent a transaction through at the maximum priority level for $4 CAD. Yes, that's a fair amount to spend, but it will arrive sooner than a wire transfer, for less, and a normal transfer of any amount in Canada cost $1.50 anyways.
Conclusion
Crypto currencies, with bitcoin and ether leading the pack, have succeeded in financial markets by attracting investors, and in the public discourse by garnering attention, but they have not succeeded (yet) as currencies. I believe that there will be one or more digital currencies competing with fiat currencies for transactions, sooner rather than later, but I am hard pressed to find a winner on the current list, right now, but that could change if the proponents and designers of one of the currencies starts thinking less about it as a speculative asset and more as a transaction medium, and acting accordingly. If that does not happen, we will have to wait for a fresh entrant and the most enduring part of this phase in markets may be the block chain and not the currencies themselves.
I wouldn't mind selling my 1/10th of a bitcoin, only i can't figure out how!-mouser (December 13, 2017, 10:17 PM)
History is replete with stories of new technologies whose initial applications end up having little to do with their eventual use. All the focus on Bitcoin as a payment system may similarly prove to be a distraction, a technological red herring. Nakamoto pitched Bitcoin as a “peer-to-peer electronic-cash system” in the initial manifesto, but at its heart, the innovation he (or she or they) was proposing had a more general structure, with two key features...For our purposes, forget everything else about the Bitcoin frenzy, and just keep these two things in mind: What Nakamoto ushered into the world was a way of agreeing on the contents of a database without anyone being “in charge” of the database, and a way of compensating people for helping make that database more valuable, without those people being on an official payroll or owning shares in a corporate entity. Together, those two ideas solved the distributed-database problem and the funding problem.
Beyond the Bitcoin Bubble: Long article on blockchain technology and cryptocurrency and the core ideas that might be useful-mouser (February 11, 2018, 07:45 PM)
Coinbase is erratically overcharging some users and emptying their bank accounts-Arizona Hot (February 15, 2018, 05:16 PM)
A blockchain crypto-art rose titled "Forever Rose" has been sold to a collective of investors for cryptocurrencies with a value equivalent to $1,000,000 USD. The collective is composed of 10 investors, each of whom contributed an equal amount toward the digital rose. The artwork is based on Kevin Abosch's photograph of a rose and was created by Abosch and GIFTO, a decentralized universal gifting protocol.
Blockchain technology is behind cryptocurrencies like bitcoin and rights management platforms like KODAKOne. The tech can also be used for art, as demonstrated by Abosch with "Forever Rose." Abosch previously sold an image of a potato titled "Potato #345" in 2016 for more than $1 million.
More than 150 buyers expressed interest in the Forever Rose, according to a press release detailing the sale. Ten collectors were ultimately chosen using a ballot—the buyers include ORCA Fund, Chinese crypto-investor Ms. Meng Zu, blockchain advisory firm TLDR Capital, and others. Payments were made in IAMA and GTO-by-GIFTO cryptocurrencies, with each buyer paying the crypto-equivalent of $100,000 to get 1/10 of the ROSE, an ERC20 token on the Ethereum blockchain.
Forever Rose is believed to currently be the most valuable virtual artwork in the world. The buyers can choose to hold onto their rose tokens, sell them, or give them away. Abosch and GIFTO will donate the sale proceeds to The CoderDojo Foundation, which provides kids around the world with the opportunity to learn coding skills for free.
Bitcoin’s Final Boss
“Bitcoin ought to be outlawed.”
Those were the ominous words of economist Joseph Stiglitz in an interview with Bloomberg last week.
He’s not the first to say it and he certainly won’t be the last.
Anyone actually understand what's happening there?-tomos (February 22, 2018, 04:20 AM)
Interesting...
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/07/sec-issues-stern-warning-for-potential-cryptocurrency-investors/-wraith808 (March 07, 2018, 04:09 PM)
Interesting...
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/07/sec-issues-stern-warning-for-potential-cryptocurrency-investors/-wraith808 (March 07, 2018, 04:09 PM)
So... The government wants to "protect us" from the very thing that is supposed to protect us from the (fiat currency) government. o_O-Stoic Joker (March 08, 2018, 07:15 AM)
Interesting...
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/07/sec-issues-stern-warning-for-potential-cryptocurrency-investors/-wraith808 (March 07, 2018, 04:09 PM)
So... The government wants to "protect us" from the very thing that is supposed to protect us from the (fiat currency) government. o_O-Stoic Joker (March 08, 2018, 07:15 AM)
Yeah, I don't get it. The SEC is saying "buyer beware," which is a basic tenet of cryptocurrency. Crypto puts the responsibility and ownership back in your own hands. But I guess this non-news is useful for people who have no idea what cryptocurrency is or how it works, and are just jumping on the bandwagon because they keep hearing about how much Bitcoin (and others) keeps going up.-Deozaan (March 08, 2018, 07:57 PM)
Well, I didn't know if it was a scare tactic, a note that they couldn't regulate it, or a prelude to them trying to regulate it, based on "consumers losing money".-wraith808 (March 09, 2018, 01:03 AM)
I dunno. I just think it's a common sense statement. There's not really anything else the SEC can do, due to the uncensorable nature of cryptocurrencies. Even if they try to regulate cryptocurrencies, it kind of can't be done. If someone is determined to buy or sell crypto, there's nothing a law or regulation can do to prevent that or even make it especially difficult for someone to do.-Deozaan (March 11, 2018, 11:47 PM)
Crypto currencies: everything you don't understand about money, combined with everything you don't understand about computers!-John Oliver
Bitcoin is still a total disaster (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/bitcoin-is-still-total-disaster/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5ec53b9c9a4)-Arizona Hot (August 13, 2018, 04:41 PM)
Bitcoin is still a total disaster (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/bitcoin-is-still-total-disaster/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5ec53b9c9a4)-Arizona Hot (August 13, 2018, 04:41 PM)
comes across as a very snarky article (presumably by someone who is a fan of the status-quo), yet may have some valid points. I dont know enough myself to say.-tomos (August 14, 2018, 06:28 AM)
So, not sure I take the WP seriously when it continually cries about the end of Bitcoin.-Renegade (August 14, 2018, 10:45 AM)
As Bitcoins continue to be mined they begin to create more value since more people begin to own them.again seems very simplistic to me: the real value is fluctuating independent of the mining. Add to that -- mining costs more than Bitcoin is currently worth IIUC (or has that changed again?)
You're optimistic there Torah. A bit simplistic too: that an economy based on Bitcoin would be better is very debatable.-tomos (October 01, 2018, 06:25 AM)
Bitcoin's main issue (in my point of view) is that transactions can take place immediately or take way too long, depending on your willingness to pay for the privilege to be put first on the queue of transactions. That is not only flawed for the person who wants to pay for goods/services, the person or company at the receiving end of the transaction cannot be sure when the transaction takes place and how much the value amount of the received bitcoin is at that moment.
Trading one miserable way of doing financial transactions for another....yay!
The concept of crypto currency is a good one, Bitcoin's implementation isn't.-Shades (October 01, 2018, 08:52 AM)