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Title: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 12:00 PM

The Dell POS computer I purchased for my wife, Robin, a few years ago is finally, finally nearing its end. (Never thought I would actually hope for a computer to die!!)When I purchased this box Robin had never used an actual computer. Only terminal-type devices for companies where she had worked. She mostly like PC games but I was hoping (dreaming maybe?) that she would take an interest in more computer-related activities if she had one. Sad to be so naive this late in life!! She developed an interest alright: Facebook! I loaded her machine up with several thousand of the family photos I have been collecting for the past few years, along with as much of my music tracks I felt she could stand. She does look at the photos now and then; never, ever listens to music on her PC; but she does do email now. So... email, Facebook, and PC games. That's about it, at least so far.

The computer I bought for her was a very inexpensive Dell - an Inspiron i510 desktop. Decent specs, particularly for someone who doesn’t do that much that requires any more power or memory. But being a Dell this machine has cost me a lot of hours troubleshooting things that just shouldn’t need to be troubleshot (Is that even a real word?!) in the first place! (I truly hate Dell, if you haven't figured that out by now - they have caused me much grief over the years). Only reason I got the Dell box was that it cost so little and I figured I would basically treat it as "disposable". For those interested, the computer cost a grand total of $500 - a $150 rebate, which in early 2008 was pretty cheap! Like most Dell PC's almost all components are made-for-Dell-only and so replacement parts must be purchased from Dell IF they still even stock them. Other components commonly do not fit into the non-spacious cases.

Anyway... back to my real reason for posting: I've been looking for a replacement for her computer - the CPU fan has died and I can't find one that will work without either paying Dell about 60% of the original cost of the whole computer, or modifying the case, forcing another fan in, and crossing my fingers. Ain't gonna bother - too damn old for that! While looking I noticed more than a few All-In-One PCs, and since Robin gets along fine with an iPad I know the touch screen will agree with her. I'm looking specifically at an Asus Multi-Touch - which I discovered means that you can perform tasks with both hands touching the screen rather than just a one-finger tap kind of operation. (I put that very nicely technical, didn't I?) Also it has an Intel i3 3.10 GHz, 4 GB DDR memory, Windows 7 Home Premium... a lot of nice touches that the touch screens usually haven't had till now. Or so I have read. Here's a link to it at Newegg.com:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220101 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220101)

Regular price is $849, and the sale price (gotta put it in the shopping cart to see) is $799. I am wondering if anyone here has an All-in-One and/or a Multi-Touch computer and if so, could you please let me know how you - or whomever you know - likes it.

Thanks!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 25, 2012, 12:38 PM

I have a few clients that opted for all-in-ones for high visibility locations such as the front lobby reception desk or security guard's kiosk.

They've generally been ok. A little pricey for what you get in the tin, but that's the tariff you pay for pretty packaging. Just remember - it's a non-standard form factor. So any hardware maintenance you may someday need to do will be a headache at best - or a depot repair at worst. So far I haven't had to crack one of these puppies open to do anything. But I dread the day when I might.

Asus has been a reliable brand in my experience. Better than some Dell models and no argument about it. I've also had good luck with eMachines/Gateway and Acer - which is my current preference if you're on a tight budget.

When my  GF went shopping for a new machine, (actually, she only went out to pick up a copy of Windows 7 to upgrade her XP machine) she looked at the all-in-ones and desktops while she was there. She came home with an "on sale" Acer 17" laptop with Windows 7 installed. The price she got was exceptionally good so it was a very cost effective decision. As she described it: I think I bought a copy of the "new Windows" and they threw in this i3 laptop for a hundred bucks. (Now you know why we always have her do the shopping when we need a new car!)

She doesn't take her new toy anywhere. It's permanently enshrined on her desk. She refers to it as her "rolltop" PC. As far as she's concerned, the lid is like the rolltop on a desk. It keeps things neat and out of sight (she hates cables with a passion bordering on mania) - plus she no longer has to dust her screen or keyboard every so often. (Big big big plus that part!)

Before I'd go with a unibox I'd definitely think about getting her a big screen laptop instead. They're cheaper and more powerful so you get a much better 'bang for the buck' ratio. And you're no worse off hassle-wise than you'd be with an all-in-one if something inside it breaks.

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Plus, the ladies (most from my observations anyway) seem to prefer laptops over desktop PCs. Take that with a dram of whiskey however. Because no two (ladies or computers) are ever exactly alike.

 8)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: mouser on January 25, 2012, 12:56 PM

What 40hz says resonates with me.  The all-in-one touch computers seem like a great gadget to have on display for public use -- i want to mount one on my wall.  But I find it hard to imagine actually using the touch features when actually sitting down to use the computer.  Touch interface works well on an ipad or phone -- where what you are doing is playing and noodling about -- but not as a main computer.  just my 2 cents.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 01:08 PM

Thanks 40hz.

Maybe I just haven't had much luck with laptops but I have found working inside a laptop to be pretty tight! Then again my only experience inside laptops were all Dell laptops - and I have a feeling that those aren't the best by a long shot. (Also ditched a Dell laptop because it needed a battery and Dell was the only resource... A generic battery company started selling Dell-compatible but stopped when Dell sued them. Battery price from Dell: $259!! In a four and a half year old laptop.)

I know that the All-In-One pricing isn't the best, but I have to say that looking at regular desktops with comparable specs hasn’t been that fruitful at $799. Except for PCs like iBuyPower, which I found out can NOT be upgraded. Three components - mobo, power supply, and CD/DVD player. All else is "integrated". Blah...  But the Asus, Acer, Toshiba, etc. are priced right up there if I compare similar specs. (Desktops, that is. Don’t think Robin wants a laptop.) I'm keeping far away from both Dell and HP. Also - and this is heresy for me - I was even thinking about buying a separate warranty for it. Yikes! I never buy extended warranties! But I have heard from a few friends that Amazon's Square Trade warranties are excellent, especially for computers. The cost is reasonable, though Amazon has its price for the same Asus All-in-One at $849, so that adds another $50 on to the Newegg price.

Do you know anyone who has had to dig inside one of these AIO's?

Thanks again!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 01:20 PM

What 40hz says resonates with me.  The all-in-one touch computers seem like a great gadget to have on display for public use -- i want to mount one on my wall.  But I find it hard to imagine actually using the touch features when actually sitting down to use the computer.  Touch interface works well on an ipad or phone -- where what you are doing is playing and noodling about -- but not as a main computer.  just my 2 cents.

-mouser (January 25, 2012, 12:56 PM)

Understood mouser. However this is my wife, who for the most part doesn’t touch her keyboard unless she is posting to Facebook. No productivity apps, no office-type stuff, no utilities... She really doesn’t use software other than games, Facebook, and email. No kidding there. And I have been trying to get her to discover more things she could do for almost four years now! She's just not interested. BTW, this Asus does come with a wireless keyboard and mouse, so the touch screen isn't the lone input source. I don’t know.... this is a tough one for me. Personally I wouldn’t touch one of these for anything that I do.  I recently got me a nice, new power desktop from Puget Systems - same builder that Java Jones used. 3.8 GHz Intel Core 7, 16GB of fast RAM, SSD system drive, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 graphics card...  I couldn't live with a touch screen for myself. But I have to consider how Robin will use it. I think she will appreciate the Multi-Touch screen more than the standard PC user. But that kind of preference is really tough to tell. Can't ask her because of her "I don’t NEED a new computer" philosophy. (Of course she does not realize that her chip is going to die very shortly with an inoperable fan! I dare not tell her... yet!)

Decisions, decisions.... I am weighing all advice here. Highly respected opinions!

Thanks mouser!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 25, 2012, 01:33 PM

Just ran a quick rundown to configure a similar machine...

Acer AM3910-UR30P (PT.SDXP2.001) Desktop PC Intel Core i3 540(3.06GHz) 2GB DDR3 500GB HDD Capacity Intel HD Graphics Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit @ $360 (link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103381#top))

All-in-one has the newer chipset - but for what your lady is going to be doing, it shouldn't matter.

Add in an additional 2GB DDR3 RAM to bring it to 4 total to match the spec @$25 (approx)

ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black 23.6" 2ms LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 50000000:1 (ASCR) @$185 (link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236174))

So $360+25+185 = $570 vs $799 for a total savings of $229. And that's without even checking for specials or seeing if any additional package deals or discounts are available. Yoiks!

So basically, it comes down to deciding if the form factor and touch capability are worth the price differential.

If you really have your heart set on a touchscreen - it's probably already a moot issue. So maybe an all-in-one is where you want to go based on this particular 'client' you're working with. ;D

Note: I'd definitely get the longest extended warranty they offer if you do decide to go down that road however. :tellme:

Luck! :Thmbsup:

----

On a related note: I'd also love to hear from anybody who has ever had the pleasure of cracking the case on one of these StarTrek boxes. Anybody? Anybody?

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: mouser on January 25, 2012, 01:34 PM

Can't ask her because of

I don't know.. does seem like if the computer is for her you might at least try to ask her if she would prefer a laptop or a desktop.  if you know you are going to get a desktop, then there is no real harm in getting an all-in-one touch screen pc for her -- for the extra bucks it seems like you might as well, for your planned use.  but what 40hz says about a laptop being a better fit for many people is really true, so i wouldn't dismiss that choice.. a laptop is after all the ultimate all-in-one.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Stoic Joker on January 25, 2012, 01:39 PM

Do you know anyone who has had to dig inside one of these AIO's?

-J-Mac (January 25, 2012, 01:08 PM)

Yeah, me. And you don't want to. However we do have some of the HP (310-1124f) TouchSmart AIOs here at the office. We got them refurbed for like $500 each. and much as I'd planned on hating them - I fought Against using them for months - They really aren't that bad. I've got one of the 22" ones on the test bench running Windows 8 ... And it's doing a fine job of it.

I'm just dreading the day I have to crack the case as the last one I worked on was a total nightmare to even get into the thing. It actually took two people and a full day to change the F'ing video card.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 25, 2012, 01:44 PM

Can't ask her because of

I don't know.. does seem like if the computer is for her you might at least try to ask her if she would prefer a laptop or a desktop.  if you know you are going to get a desktop, then there is no real harm in getting an all-in-one touch screen pc for her -- for the extra bucks it seems like you might as well, for your planned use.  but what 40hz says about a laptop being a better fit for many people is really true, so i wouldn't dismiss that choice.. a laptop is after all the ultimate all-in-one.

-mouser (January 25, 2012, 01:34 PM)

I agree with Mouser on involving her. If she doesn't think she needs it, she's gonna be pissed at you whether you ask her first or just show up with a box someday. So ... ;D

And regarding maintenance:

the last one I worked on was a total nightmare to even get into the thing. It actually took two people and a full day to change the F'ing video card.

-Stoic Joker (January 25, 2012, 01:39 PM)

Ok...that's good enough for 40hz. Stoic's high on my list of reliable sources. And no slouch when it comes to rolling up sleeves. If he says it's a total nightmare - it's a total nightmare.

Count me out if one of these things ever breaks. (Sez 40hz, who is indulging in pure wishful thinking here. ;D )

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 02:05 PM

OK - I know she wouldn’t want a laptop because whenever she has used mine she bitched like crazy about it! Hates the smaller keyboard - says she can't get used to typing on it and makes far too many typos because of the smaller configuration. Also, since she loves playing PC games she says that she needs the full number pad. Now I realize that she could use an external keyboard and also an external number pad - I actually have both for my laptop - but let's face it: she's not going to lug it around with all that hanging from the laptop! For mobility she much prefers her iPad 2. So a laptop is pretty much out, though it is still close between the All-in-One and a standard desktop.

40hz - Thanks for the pricing from that you quoted; I shall review those now.   :)

Thanks!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: wraith808 on January 25, 2012, 02:15 PM

Do you know anyone who has had to dig inside one of these AIO's?

-J-Mac (January 25, 2012, 01:08 PM)

I did.  And SJ's experiences ring true.  If anything, he's being nicer than my experiences.  It's like a BMW in the fact that much of the engineering that has gone into making it pretty is also designed to keep people without the correct (i.e. manufacturer) tools out.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 25, 2012, 02:53 PM

40hz - Thanks for the pricing from that you quoted; I shall review those now.   :)

Thanks!

Jim

-J-Mac (January 25, 2012, 02:05 PM)

You're welcome. It took about three minutes.  ;D

On a more serious note though, do some shopping. Look at the chipset, the graphics and do a mix and match to get exactly what you're looking for if you do go with a desktop. That's why you buy a desktop: to get exactly what you want. (A quick and dirty spreadsheet helps.)

If you want to cut into the saving differential between that all in one and a desktop, consider upgrading the video since she likes games. There's some excellent inexpensive graphics cards that can do wonders. How much you'd need would be determined by the games she'll play.

FWIW, with the games I play I've found the Intel built-in with an i5 CPU chip on the board is more than I need.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: vlastimil on January 25, 2012, 05:01 PM

I recently bought a display with multitouch screen for my grandma and it works reasonably well for her. She usually only does email, voice chat, internet browsing and photo management in Picasa. The touch screen on a PC simplifies some things, but having a real keyboard and mouse attached is a must. Using real keyboard is faster than the on-screen keyboard and a real mouse is more accurate than the touch screen. A good number of PC applications do not work well with touchscreen - the controls are sometimes too tiny, especially when the applications ignore the DPI setting of Windows. Maybe in a few years, the situation will change.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 08:37 PM

Thanks wraith & 40hz.

BTW, remember folks that the specs I am considering aren't for me! 40, I just did purchase a desktop for me and it took quite some time! And a spreadsheet of all aspects. I personally will not be using this computer. Also I am fairly certain that I will be getting the Square Trade warranty I mentioned above, so I would expect to not have much at all to do inside the box.

vlastimil: I did mention above that the Asus I looked at comes with a wireless keyboard and mouse, plus I already have a Logitech K800 wireless KB and Anywhere MX wireless mouse for her.   :)

Thanks!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: kyrathaba on January 25, 2012, 08:58 PM

Kinda hard to go wrong with a large screen laptop. Portable if she needs it to be, but she can use it as a stationary PC if she has a favorite desk or nook where she likes to sit while computing. You definitely want to get as much screen real-estate as possible on a laptop.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 09:01 PM

Kinda hard to go wrong with a large screen laptop. Portable if she needs it to be, but she can use it as a stationary PC if she has a favorite desk or nook where she likes to sit while computing. You definitely want to get as much screen real-estate as possible on a laptop.

-kyrathaba (January 25, 2012, 08:58 PM)

...And a full-size keyboard ...and a number pad... Yes, these can all be added - even an external monitor. But since she hates these things about laptops, why should I get her one?

Thanks!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: wraith808 on January 25, 2012, 09:32 PM

But since she hates these things about laptops, why should I get her one?

-J-Mac (January 25, 2012, 09:01 PM)

+1!  That should be the overriding principle.  Even though I hate Dells, I got my mom one.  It satisfied her needs, and the support was good for her.  So if you think this will satisfy her needs best, get a good service plan and get it.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: bmikey on January 25, 2012, 09:54 PM

It really depends on what you are going to intend the use for.

I mean, I reckon that would be more appropriate where there is real need for some interaction between the machine and the user, which as said is just the perfect setup for a receiving counter.

But nevertheless, you could always go for it just because it is a trusted brand and the technology is relatively new for your consumption.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: DougalS on January 25, 2012, 10:12 PM

For those of you who have used an AIO, how do you find looking at the screen so close you can reach it with you hands? I hate using my laptop and screen together - I much prefer to use either an external monitor with the laptop keyboard or wireless kb with laptop screen pushed away (or both). Then again my tired old eyes like a bit of distance relief for extended viewing. I can't image using an AIO for anything other than a media centre or similar where I only make a few inputs then walk away.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 25, 2012, 11:11 PM

OT note: After getting my nice new monster 'puter delivered last week I found my 24" Acer monitor wouldn’t come out of sleep mode.  Looked into it and found, unfortunately, that the driver is not compatible with 64-bit and Acer is not going to release one! Well, that sucks!

So I got an Asus 27" LED backlit giant beast - thought I would need a crane to get it on my desk! Oddly enough the height of this monitor is almost exactly the same as the Acer - and actually a little shorter - but it is much wider! Guess that's how they maintained the 27" diagonal measurement. And now my neck is getting a workout as I keep having to turn my head left and right to see the whole damn screen!

Because this Asus monitor is shorter overall, the resolution is 1920 x 1080, while the Acer's resolution was 1920 x 1200. Looks pretty good to me, except for the "sitting too close to the screen in the movie theater" effect!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: kyrathaba on January 26, 2012, 05:53 AM

You can find laptops with larger keys that are spaced similarly to those on a regular keyboard. My Dell Inspiron gives me no key-frustration.  But I take your point. If she hates several things about laptops, it's probably the wrong choice. 

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 26, 2012, 07:59 AM

OT note: After getting my nice new monster 'puter delivered last week I found my 24" Acer monitor wouldn’t come out of sleep mode.  Looked into it and found, unfortunately, that the driver is not compatible with 64-bit and Acer is not going to release one! Well, that sucks!

-J-Mac (January 25, 2012, 11:11 PM)

I ran into a similar problem with a few older but very nice Samsung flat displays I still wanted to use. I was able to get them working mostly ok under W7-32bit, but not 64. And because there's no W7 drivers I'm stuck with 1024X768 if I want to be able to read what's on them. A email from Samsung confirmed that's the way it's going to be for these monitors under Win7. No new drivers.

If plugged into a Linux box however, I can run them at their native 1280x1024, tweak the color and calibrate them to my heart's content, and have the power features work properly.

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Draw what conclusions you will. ;D

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: JavaJones on January 26, 2012, 03:23 PM

Can't you just use generic display drivers for those monitors?

- Oshyan

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 26, 2012, 03:47 PM

I tried letting Windows Update get a driver for it - which I never usually do - but that came back with no driver and a link to Acer's site. Google finds a lot of people grumbling about the same monitor, and most of them have also been unsuccessful finding a driver that works.  :(

I'm sure that one of my kids can put the monitor to good use - they all run 32-bit Windows.

Thanks!

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 26, 2012, 03:48 PM

Can't you just use generic display drivers for those monitors?

- Oshyan

-JavaJones (January 26, 2012, 03:23 PM)

In my case, you can. But half of the nifty color features I bought them for aren't supported under Win7.

Something weird also happens with text at higher resolutions that you can't seem to fix no matter what. The minute you bump the display adapter up to 1280x1024@60hz, the monitor goes nuts...and tells you it's not at the optimal settings and suggest you switch to...wait for it...1280x1024@60hz!
 
Samsung has confirmed it's a known issue and that no fix is available. I'm inclined to agree since I've tried every monitor driver I could find and nothing works.

It also does it using two different vid cards that had no problems at all under XP - so there's some weird interaction going on between Windows and the monitors. I'm excusing the vid cards because it's the same problem with two different (make and model) adaptors.

Something in those monitors is telling Win7 something it doesn't want to hear.

And it's really not worth putting any more time or thought into it since they're 5-year old 19-inchers.

And they work just fine under Linux Mint. ;D

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: JavaJones on January 29, 2012, 07:13 PM

Well that's just lame, both on Win7's part and, IMO, on the monitor manufacturer's part as it sounds like they're doing some non-standard weirdness. Oh well.

- Oshyan

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: TaoPhoenix on January 30, 2012, 07:23 AM

For those of you who have used an AIO, how do you find looking at the screen so close you can reach it with you hands? I hate using my laptop and screen together - I much prefer to use either an external monitor with the laptop keyboard or wireless kb with laptop screen pushed away (or both). Then again my tired old eyes like a bit of distance relief for extended viewing. I can't image using an AIO for anything other than a media centre or similar where I only make a few inputs then walk away.

-DougalS (January 25, 2012, 10:12 PM)

Here's a different perspective. Work went with the all-in-one style for this fleet upgrade. My solution - I just don't bother to touch it! Now it's basically back to being a fancy desktop, except it really IS a desktop now, not a "floortop"!

I'm a software guy, I hate hardware, so I'd be taking it to a shop anyway if something fizzed out.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 30, 2012, 08:09 AM

I have seen a number of customers with AIO and touch screen computers - not had to take one apart yet (apart from a jammed DVD in a slot drive).

The touch screen looks fun for the first five minutes but I haven't seen anyone bother using it after the first five minutes.

There's a slight frisson - ooo cool, and then - where's the mouse.

This is my biggest worry with Windows 8 - manufacturers will start moving wholesale to touchscreen AIOs to 'take advantage' the new lame features and it will become a nightmare and expensive to repair or upgrade them without a ridiculously expensive return to base.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 30, 2012, 10:06 AM

It really depends on the person (I'm not a fan).  I imagine most people here know enough about computers to understand that the "ease" that these AIOs offer are probably not worth it to you.  From what I've seen with my friends, they like these computers mainly because they don't have to "worry about all the cables and stuff".  They also like the idea of grabbing the unit and taking it somewhere...it's kinda portable, I suppose.

But in reality, no one (except maybe one of my friends) moves the computer, like, ever.  So there goes that benefit.  Secondly, if you know what hardware components cost and you understand the specs, you'll probably end up with the thought, "I can get this and that cheaper with dell (or hp, or build my own)".

I'm a big time nerd with computers, so I like to have my options open and flexible.  I like the cables, and the separate boxes, and a tower so ridiculously big, I can crawl into it.  But that's me.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 30, 2012, 12:07 PM

But in reality, no one (except maybe one of my friends) moves the computer, like, ever.  So there goes that benefit.  Secondly, if you know what hardware components cost and you understand the specs, you'll probably end up with the thought, "I can get this and that cheaper with dell (or hp, or build my own)".

I'm a big time nerd with computers, so I like to have my options open and flexible.  I like the cables, and the separate boxes, and a tower so ridiculously big, I can crawl into it.  But that's me.

-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 10:06 AM)

+1 on both points. I don't think I've ever acquired a piece of technology or a tool that I haven't begun to disassemble and tinker with less than 15 seconds after I got it. Many times, I've only done it in my mind. But not always.

There's a certain inventor/DIY mindset a lot of us have that will never be totally satisfied with any canned solution - no matter how perfect it is.

And as far as neat, built-in, polished appliancey looking computers and environments go - you can keep them. I'm of the submarine/missile silo/matrix persuasion where everything's out in plain sight and easy to get to.

Look at this little crow's nest. It's the control center in a Virginia-class nuclear attack submarine. It's awesome.

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I'll always prefer my computing environment to be a little funky looking. Part of that comes from building my own (either out of necessity or for the pure joy of it) as often as possible. To me, there are few things more intellectually gratifying than sitting it the presence (or middle  :mrgreen:) of some incredibly complex dogpile of technology - and realize you understand it all its complexity!

And it becomes an even bigger 'head rush' when you've built it yourself.  8)

So please pass your pretty tablets and slick Apple designs over to someone else. Ūber-neat packaging leads to brain-rot! Besides, builders like to leave the hood open so they can admire their creations.

And fix them. ;D

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: wraith808 on January 30, 2012, 01:12 PM

As someone who has dabbled in both paths, I like a good combination.  I like to have my uber-hot-rod pc for esoteric applications... but I also like to have my comfort devices that I know will just work when I pick them up.  And in an ideal situation, they'll be ruggedized so that when the hot rod pc gives me fits, they can survive being thrown against the wall.  ;D

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 30, 2012, 03:16 PM

And in an ideal situation, they'll be ruggedized so that when the hot rod pc gives me fits, they can survive being thrown against the wall.

-wraith808 (January 30, 2012, 01:12 PM)

So not an iPad then ;)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 30, 2012, 03:33 PM

I'll always prefer my computing environment to be a little funky looking. Part of that comes from building my own (either out of necessity or for the pure joy of it) as often as possible. To me, there are few things more intellectually gratifying than sitting it the presence (or middle  mrgreen) of some incredibly complex dogpile of technology - and realize you understand it all its complexity!

Me too!  I keep telling people, the personal computer is probably the most complex, advanced piece of equipment most people will ever use.  As such, you can't expect it to be as powerful as it is AND be super simple to use.  You have to choose.  That's why I get annoyed when Apple users bitch about how hard pc's are to use...they want all the power, but they want it done with a single button.  And if you try to explain that, they throw a little bit of 'tude at you.  Of course, we pc apologists do the same also.

But yeah, I've recently accepted that fact...I can't expect the fancy devices to satisfy my needs.  I'm always going to need to hack it in some way (even just mentally, as you say).  So I've accepted that the things I like will always make my room/house/car/whatever look like something out of Doc's garage in back to the future.  Can't help it anymore.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM

followup...
I have now tried every tablet on the market.  They all stink, big time.  But the ipad STILL has the best combination of responsiveness and screen quality, which is really the two biggies of tablet features.  All of the Androids are awful compared to it.  You can do a little more "poweruser" things with the Androids compared to a (jailbroken) ipad, but not as much as people think.  I prefer the ipad right now.

But I'm really hoping a Windows 8 tablet comes out with (very key!) a build quality and responsiveness at least close to the ipad.  I'm not going to want to use it if there are frustrating delays with swipes and touches.  I have no doubt the productivity of the Windows tablet will far surpass any of the androids or ipads...no doubt whatsoever.  Doesn't mean the applications will be easy to use on the tablet, but at least you'll be able to "do" the things you need to get done.  File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 30, 2012, 07:29 PM

File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.

-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM)

Except from what I have seen of Metro it doesn't look as though you will have any more file access than iOS - I may be wrong but it does seem to use the same per-app locked in structure.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 30, 2012, 07:38 PM

File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.

-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM)

Except from what I have seen of Metro it doesn't look as though you will have any more file access than iOS - I may be wrong but it does seem to use the same per-app locked in structure.

-Carol Haynes (January 30, 2012, 07:29 PM)

No way, I don't believe it.  The Metro is just a gui layer for the touch stuff.  A developer was in the cubicle next to mine a few weeks ago and he was testing out Windows 8 on a tablet.  And you can switch from the Metro mode to a full Windows desktop mode that looked pretty much like Windows 7.  Windows won't be Windows if you take away the file/folder access (i.e. Windows explorer....there's no way!).  I mean, if they do, I'm done with Windows and so will a ton of other people.  It will be Linux time at that point for sure.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 30, 2012, 08:06 PM

I was under the impression that tablets were going to be ARM based and that the Windows mode was only going to be available on PCs or Intel based tablets (if they ever make it to the general public). Given what MS are trying to do in the tablet market place (ie. lock it down and screw as much money as Apple out its users) I can see them being keen on ARM based tablets and a locked in marketplace!

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 30, 2012, 08:30 PM

I was under the impression that tablets were going to be ARM based and that the Windows mode was only going to be available on PCs or Intel based tablets (if they ever make it to the general public). Given what MS are trying to do in the tablet market place (ie. lock it down and screw as much money as Apple out its users) I can see them being keen on ARM based tablets and a locked in marketplace!

-Carol Haynes (January 30, 2012, 08:06 PM)

Hmm...that's disturbing news.  Well, I'm dying for a Windows 8 tablet that has a full desktop.  If the Windows tablets are as locked down as described, I don't see why anyone would use it over Android or iOS.  Or, to be more clear, I don't see any distinguishing features.  If you don't open up the file/folder system...it's just an appliance.  I mean, geez, somebody has to make a tablet that can do business stuff.  We've been using tablets in our company now for a while, and we are continually running into limitations to the point where we just carry the things around now to browse the internet during meetings.  Maybe a little email or messaging is convenient.  But at some point, businesses are going to need that Blackberry power combined with Windows desktop power, or else they'll just stick to their laptops.  Windows 8 will fail big time if they don't put a desktop on the tablet.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 31, 2012, 03:10 AM

That's why I think Windows 8 will be an upgrade to rival ME and Vista - I think MS are forgetting their core market in the hopes of generating the sort of revenue Apple gets from a totally locked down infrastructure and they are going to use the desktop OS to try and persuade people their tablets are cool - in which case I think they will fail on both counts.

What MS has been good at (at least on average in alternate releases) is Windows desktop and server operating systems, and their biggest source of income is business and government. Who in that core market is going to upgrade to the desktop Windows 8? Many haven't even moved from XP yet and I can see a lot of tech departments saying lets move to 7 before 8 appears just to avoid 8 and all the compatibility headaches associated with that move. This will have a huge knock on effect to future versions of Windows - especially as XP and 7 are just so good.

MS have forgotten that their incredible global domination on the desktop has been because they provided an OS that could be installed on just about any computer and allowed for huge variety of target audiences. Now they see Apple starting to undermine their profits and rather than going for their own approach to a tablet based OS they are blindly following the Apple approach in the hop that they can take away that market share. There are too problems with that. Firstly they are probably too late because the iPad is becoming a ubiquitous consumer level product and secondly even when they do produce a good product they are terrible at the customer level marketing.

The only product that MS have produced in years (possibly decades) that has been globally successful in a way that got customers excited is the XBOX and for most consumers there is a common thread - they don't know it is MS and MS have gone out of their way to make sure it is not totally obvious that it is an MS product.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 31, 2012, 09:16 AM

It doesn't sound like file management is going anywhere.  It's being tweaked, improved:
improvements in file management (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/23/improving-our-file-management-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete.aspx)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: wraith808 on January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...

-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?!  (    :P   )

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 31, 2012, 12:38 PM

It doesn't sound like file management is going anywhere.  It's being tweaked, improved:
improvements in file management (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/23/improving-our-file-management-basics-copy-move-rename-and-delete.aspx)

-superboyac (January 31, 2012, 09:16 AM)

File management isn't going anywhere in the Windows Desktop - but we were talking about Metro cased tablets - as far as I know ARM based tablets won't have desktop windows - just Metro - and as far as I can tell apps in Metro are just as annoying as on the iPad with no easy access to the file system.

Doubtless someone will write an app to give Metro access the the FS but then they have to convince MS to let you have it because, like Apple, you will only be able to get Metro apps from the MS store.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 31, 2012, 12:45 PM

That's no big deal, then.  If they make some tablets without a desktop to compete with the ipads and androids, that's fine.  But they're going to make tablets with both metro and desktop, or desktop only also.  So...I don't see any problem with that from our standpoint.  If someone doesn't want the restrictions of metro-only, they can get a more full-featured Windows 8 tablet.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: wraith808 on January 31, 2012, 01:48 PM

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...

-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?!  (    :P   )

-J-Mac (January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM)

That went over my head...

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 31, 2012, 02:10 PM

When it comes to tablets, I'm holding out for something that ships with a pure OS and no jailbreaking required. Not some locked-down version of Linux with a half a ton of BS Java 'pretty face' sitting on top of it.

Enter the Spark tablet running Plasma Active. (If you don't know what Plasma Active (http://kde.org/announcements/plasma-active-one/) is, look here (http://plasma-active.org/) for full info.)

If this puppy ever actually sees the light of day (and I've been disappointed with announcements such as this before) I may finally make my first tablet PC purchase (link to full article here (http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html)):

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

The Reveal

As I noted earlier in the week, my recent blog posts have been slowly leading up to something, and here's what that something is:



The first tablet computer that comes with Plasma Active pre-installed.


It's name is "Spark", in recognition of it being the start to an even bigger flame.

It sports an open Linux stack on unlocked hardware and comes with an open content and services market. The user experience is, of course, Plasma Active and it will be available to the general public.

The hardware is modest but compelling: 1GHz AMLogic ARM processor, Mali-400 GPU, 512 MB RAM, 4GB internal storage plus SD card slot, a 7" capacitive multi-touch screen and wifi connectivity.

I'm sure some of you are already wondering what the retail price will be. The answer: a mere €200.

A Bit of the Bigger Picture

This is more than just another piece of hardware on the market, though. This is a unique opportunity for Free software. Finally we have a device coming to market on our terms. It has been designed by and is usable by us on our terms. We are not waiting for some big company to give us what we desire, we're going out there and making it happen together. Just as important: the proceeds will be helping fuel the efforts that make this all possible.

It's also more meaningful than "just" Free software: The people who get to use these tablets will have in their hands a device that is more than an application bucket that sees them as a consumer. They will have a device that places value on who they are and what they are doing. This lies at the heart of Activities in Plasma Active and the open software stack will drive that trend further. Perhaps best of all: there's no walled garden to get locked into or which can be taken away.

This also will provide opportunities to the wider Free software ecosystem. Partnerships are being forged to provide things as diverse as OwnCloud hosting services, Kolab and Kontact Touch deployment support and exciting Qt/QML add-on apps for download.

The content store will offer great Free Culture artifacts such as digital books from Project Gutenberg as well as contents and apps for purchase. It will provide a conduit to users for those who love writing great software, Free and otherwise, using the typical Linux tools.

In case it wasn't painfully clear already: this epitomizes what I've been writing about for the last few days. It is a product made with and out of a commitment to the philosophy of making, playing and living. In fact, that's the brand under which this tablet, and those that follow it, is being brought to market under: Make·Play·Live.

.. but that's not all! ;)


I'll be sharing more information as to when the tablet will be available to be shipped directly to you (soon!), how you can place orders for them as well as more details on the hardware and software provided.

It will still never be able to replace a keyboard equipped laptop for me or many people. Even the Plasma Active developers acknowledge the fundamental difference between today's tablet users and the rest of the computing community in their note to app developers:

App developers

Small ultraportables favor consumption over creation. Active users generally read reports rather than write them. Touch interfaces are good for selecting; not so good for high volume typing. People want an ongoing supply of good games. Plasma Active offers a rewarding opportunity for developers. Creativity and innovation thrive in KDE's open, collaborative development environment.

Would that Apple (and everybody else who is positioning tablet PCs as the replacement for desktops) had the same degree of insight, or  - to be more blunt about it - the same honesty and candor.

But even so, with it's unlocked OS (and LGPL license), it will afford people like me the opportunity to better take it where I want to go than any other alternative currently out there.

Let's hope it actually ships! ;D

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 31, 2012, 02:49 PM

Nice find 40!!  yes, that is exactly the thing we want to have.  If that ever comes out, I will do my best to support that business.  We need more of these.  Whoever has the talent and the willpower needs to start creating product on their own.  No more relying on the big boys to support us.  They are NOT supporting us, they are wasting our time, our energy, our precious few moments here in this life.  We're working like dogs for no good reason...our lives and the lives of those around us is not ebing improved by our own actions.  It is improving the lives of those who don't know, don't care about, and frankly those who don't care about us.  We need to do more things that help those around us, or things that people around us want or need.  And let it grow from there.  We can't wait for the others to give us our share...it ain't coming.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: J-Mac on January 31, 2012, 03:00 PM

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...

-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?!  (    :P   )

-J-Mac (January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM)

That went over my head...

-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 01:48 PM)

Sorry - back a year or two ago, there had not been development for almost a year, the developer had stopped responding to support requests, no blog posts about Teracopy. He finally blogged that he was focusing all his efforts on iPhone and Android apps because there was so much more revenue to be made there and he didn't know when he would get back to Teracopy. There were several hundred angry flames on his blog comments - which don’t seem to be there anymore BTW! That's what my comment (wisecrack!) was about.

Jim

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 31, 2012, 03:46 PM

Nice find 40!!  yes, that is exactly the thing we want to have.  

-superboyac (January 31, 2012, 02:49 PM)

The other is the Roku (http://www.roku.com/) box for your TV set. My GF picked up one (from $59 -$99) about a month ago. Combined with a vanilla wifi router and her $7.99/mo NetFlix streaming account, she's all set. She dropped DirectTV and now gets better picture quality and all the movies she wants to see when she wants to see them. She was contemplating buying a HuluPlus* account (also $7.99/mo) to get network channels and shows, but hasn't so far. She's since discovered independent web TV and liked it so much she's scaled back on her NetFlix watching.

She'll be saving herself well over a thousand dollars this year by buying her entertainment this way.

Roku even threw in a free copy of Angry Birds as part of the deal. Awesome! :Thmbsup:

-----

*Note: due to legal restrictions by the TV networks, Roku and other set top boxes (i.e. XBox, Wii, Sony, etc.) are only allowed to carry HuluPlus - not the free Hulu offering you can still watch on your PC.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: superboyac on January 31, 2012, 05:47 PM

The other is the Roku (http://www.roku.com/) box for your TV set.

-40hz (January 31, 2012, 03:46 PM)

Roku has been in my backup plans for a while.  But...superboyac is going to overengineer hisself a home theater system in 2012 that has been in the works for 3 years.   :Thmbsup:

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on January 31, 2012, 10:02 PM

The other is the Roku (http://www.roku.com/) box for your TV set.

-40hz (January 31, 2012, 03:46 PM)

Roku has been in my backup plans for a while.  But...superboyac is going to overengineer hisself a home theater system in 2012 that has been in the works for 3 years.   :Thmbsup:

-superboyac (January 31, 2012, 05:47 PM)

Ah!

In my case, I think I'd keep my current modest home theater system, add a Roku to the mix, and then plow any money saved into the biggest, highest quality screen I could comfortably view. And maybe buy a real theater popcorn maker if there was anything left over!
 
Because those are two things I likely wouldn't be able to build for myself.;D

A lesson in budgeting resources. (NSFW)

I didn't make this one up, but the truth found within it is so profound I thought I'd share it: :Thmbsup:

-----------------------------------------------

Two bulls were standing on a grassy hill, looking down at a pasture, which was home to a large herd of cows.

"Well Old Timer." said the Young Bull, "I think I'm gonna charge down this hill, jump over that fence, and mate with one of them cows! How about you?"

"Sorta..." rumbled the Old Bull, looking at the herd and chewing reflectively on a mouthful of sweet clover.

"Sorta?" laughed the Young Bull. "What do you mean 'sorta'? Are you gettin' to be over the hill on us?"

"Nope," said the Old Bull. "I was just thinking more along the lines of taking me an easy stroll down this hill, walking through that open gate over yonder, and then mating with ALL of them."

 ;)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Stoic Joker on February 14, 2012, 03:42 PM

I'm at the HP conference in Las Vegas, and HP just released the new Z1 AIO workstation. Super easy to work on tool-less design.

I'm impressed.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: mouser on February 14, 2012, 03:45 PM

Pretty Slick: Z1 AIO page (http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z1_features.html).

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Stoic Joker on February 14, 2012, 07:56 PM

Yes, it quite handily forces me to retract my earlier vitriol.

(god this phone is hard to type on)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: bcpaladin on February 15, 2012, 12:34 PM

Back in the fall I put in a whole new network (only 3 stations) for a chiropractor to go with his new software that was mandated by the US Government (Medicare).  It was touch-screen compatible and he was excited by possibilities.  We opted for All-in-Ones, which came with wireless keyboard and mouse, given the price/size of standard touchscreens.  As soon as I saw them I knew I wanted no part of supporting them.  In construction they are basically laptops writ large.  I told him that he had to go through the manufacturer for support but I would assist if I could.  In the process of setting up the two All-in-ones I came to the conclusion that they're nice for limited use but ergonomically incompatible with any kind of intensive use.  Most people's shoulders won't take it, I know mine didn't.  If you can get it below and fairly close to you you're fine, but anything else is literally a pain.  Also touch is fine with programs that are designed with touch in mind i.e. Larger buttons and fields but the operating system (Win7) is not optimized for touch even if it is capable.  Icons are fine but to enter information in fields and interact with drop-down lists is difficult because they are so small on a 20 inch screen at max resolution.  I can't count how many times I hit the wrong line on something.

I would suggest that you stick with a standard desktop if that's where you're leaning.  Laptops are nice but I find the keyboards on most regardless of size to be uncomfortable to use. I have yet to find a current one that is even remotely close to feeling like a regular keyboard.  Oh, and I hate trackpads.  But both of these are easy to overcome by using usb peripherals.  However, now you're dealing with extra space for the keyboard and mouse not to mention that kind of hinders portability.  If your wife still has her iPad or whatever, you don't really need to worry about portability.  A desktop will be generally less expensive, however with the price of hard drives right now you're not going to get as much for your money.  

J-mac, I believe I know the fan you are looking for and I have at least one used one on hand.  If you want to leave a message, I would be more than happy to give it to you for the cost of shipping.

I'm with 40hz on Acer.  I recommend them to all my customers if that is what they want.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 15, 2012, 01:08 PM

I'm with 40hz on Acer.

-bcpaladin (February 15, 2012, 12:34 PM)

Acer is fine if you like devices absolutely crammed with crapware and you don't have to support them. They also won the technicians worst range of products last year (can't find the link) in terms of support issues.

Acer refuse to help anyone other than Acer make repairs or upgrades (at least Acer UK). It is almost impossible to get service manuals for laptops as Acer are VERY proprietorial about them.

I don't really like Dell as a company but I have to say if you are on a budget Dell do well - and at least you know if you need something replacing out of warranty they will do it at a reasonable price and on your own premises (even without a contract) and if I have to support them I can get all the parts and manuals I need. Toshiba is good this way too for documentation.

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: 40hz on February 15, 2012, 02:19 PM

Acer is fine if you like devices absolutely crammed with crapware and you don't have to support them.

-Carol Haynes (February 15, 2012, 01:08 PM)

I guess this is another example of YMMV. So don't automatically buy into any one person's recommendations. Not even mine! ;D

I can't say I've ever had serious problems with Acer. Their track record hasn't been flawless. True, their tech support has been so-so, like most other companies lately. But I have yet to finish up with a situation that's been left completely unresolved. Which is more than I can say for some of the bigger players whose names start with an I, a T, or an H.

Dell is the only company I've ever dealt with where I had to make a threat on two occasions to get them to honor the terms of their warranty. Other techs in my area sing Dell's praises up and down. My own experience with them has been very mixed - and not good at all when it came to laptops.

I will agree about the crapware issue Carol raises however. It is annoying now that it seems to be standard operating to procedure to bundle junk in with this class of product. I can't say if one company is worse than another doing this because I automatically scrub and groom every box I install no matter who it's made by. (PC Decrapifier has been a godsend for much of that BTW.) As far as I'm concerned, no crapware is acceptable so I don't care of there's one or twenty titles on the machine. They all get removed. And our 'delousing' process is fairly automated so it's not as annoying for us as it once was.

Some common headaches may also be less an issue for my business since we don't just "drop a box at the door" as the saying goes. We're not really a retail operation. 90% of our clients are SMBs. And everything that goes out of our shop is specc'ed, customized, and configured for the specific client and their requirements. We don't sell unopened boxes per se. We operate more like an old-fashioned guitar or bicycle shop. If you want a vanilla computer straight from the manufacturer, you don't need us to sell it to you. Just go online or stop at one of the 'big box' stores, and they'll be happy to get you one. Feel free to give us a call when there's actually some value we can add.

Maybe I should also point out that since my business deals almost exclusively with other businesses, we're not often plagued entertained by all those vexing media and driver issues a consumer computer dealer gets to resolve. Nor do we get caught up wasting hours trying to solve problems that occur when trying to integrate poorly engineered entertainment products or oddball components into an otherwise standard system. My hat is off to the overclockers and game machine customizers in that respect. They have a much tougher job than we do getting everything to work correctly.

So maybe I should have said for what we do, and the type of client we support, Acer has been a good choice for a budget machine.
 8)

Title: Re: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts?
Post by: xtabber on February 15, 2012, 05:05 PM

followup...
But I'm really hoping a Windows 8 tablet comes out with (very key!) a build quality and responsiveness at least close to the ipad.  I'm not going to want to use it if there are frustrating delays with swipes and touches.  I have no doubt the productivity of the Windows tablet will far surpass any of the androids or ipads...no doubt whatsoever.  Doesn't mean the applications will be easy to use on the tablet, but at least you'll be able to "do" the things you need to get done.  File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.

-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM)

Bob Lewis at InfoWorld is very much in agreement (http://www.infoworld.com/t/tablets/microsofts-killer-tablet-opportunity-186377?source=IFWNLE_nlt_entwindows_2012-02-15) with you on this, but I think that in the long run, Android is going to be the winner, not whatever Microsoft comes up with as a tablet OS.

Android already has a decent file system, and apps that don't try to mimic the iOS environment take advantage of that. Documents to Go, Mantano, RepliGo and others allow you to browse for files throughout a device's storage. ES File Manager allows me to browse not only my phone and tablet, but my Windows LAN as well.  I can copy and move files between folders on the device or the LAN, and open them directly in associated applications, much like a Windows file manager.

I think we are a long way from having the kind of functionality on tablets that we expect on personal computers, but as of today, Android gives me a more of that than iOS ever will. As for Microsoft, I  think they may well end up with another non-competitive OS like the Pocket PC, at least on phones and tablets.