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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: tomos on May 19, 2010, 06:49 AM
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I've been doing a bit of research and am totally addled by what I've read.
Is there a simple way to connect two computers ? Quick & dirty, I just want to get some files and compare some directories.
Both are with XP, both SP2 - but I do intend to update my main machine to SP3 within the next week (I could do the other one while I'm at it if it would help)
Neither have wireless & the router given by my ISP only has one whachamacallit (same as network) socket. Each PC has one network socket (so I could connect via them)
I do have a Fritzbox router (7170) which isnt in use - I guess that could be an option but again I wouldnt be sure how. Also, my ISP set up the other router so I dont have any of the details there.
As I say, preferably easy easy (pleasy :p) :)
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If you run the network cable from the ISP router to the Fritzbox router, then run network cables to your computers, you should be good. You'll need to setup sharing though so that you can "see" the other computer and put files on it. Also, make sure to check the Windows firewall or any other firewall that you have running. Not sure if that's simple enough. Hope it helps anyways.
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if you can find a crossover cable, then you can connect the 2 PCs directly..
• http://www.home-network-help.com/crossover.html
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thanks for the suggestions both :up:
the direct connection sounds more complicated cause neither PC has a network card
Will try the Router route but will probably wait till after my SP3 install now,
thanks again :)
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the direct connection sounds more complicated cause neither PC has a network card-tomos
hmm.. you mentioned that "Each PC has one network socket" so it shouldn't be a problem..
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the direct connection sounds more complicated cause neither PC has a network card-tomos
hmm.. you mentioned that "Each PC has one network socket" so it shouldn't be a problem..
-lanux128
Okay, you got me there Lanux :D
Thing is I'm not sure what they are lol (embarrassed laughter) - I use them for the internet connection (broadband) but I presume they could be used for a network style connection
I'll order one of those cables & try it out.
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if you can find a crossover cable, then you can connect the 2 PCs directly..
• http://www.home-network-help.com/crossover.html
-lanux128
I'm only getting to this now :)
that page says I need to assign an IP address to each computer, and links to this page for XP:
How to Set IP Address and Other Network Information in Windows XP (http://www.home-network-help.com/set-ip.html)
Now, both computers are currently setup to 'Obtain an IP address automatically'
It is not clear to me how to proceed from there -
(1) do I still assign the IP address manually? or
(2) do I assign an IP address manually on the 'alternative tab' ? or
(3) do I create a new lan connection? (the older PC already has two lan connections)
my main worry is that #1 & 2 would affect my internet connection - I know I could just try it & undo after but thought it best to ask first :)
thanks for any help!
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Assuming the XP defaults of DHCP & APIPA (Automatic Private IP Addressing) both machines will self assign IP addresses in the 169.254.x.x network range when the cross-over cable is connected between them (time-outs being what they are, this tends to take a while 5-10min) This should work fine for your (quick-N-dirty) purposes.
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Assuming the XP defaults of DHCP & APIPA (Automatic Private IP Addressing) both machines will self assign IP addresses in the 169.254.x.x network range when the cross-over cable is connected between them (time-outs being what they are, this tends to take a while 5-10min) This should work fine for your (quick-N-dirty) purposes.
-Stoic Joker
thanks Stoic - I did try that way but didnt wait very long. Will have another go.
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i guess Stoic may have this covered but just in case, you can access the network connection in the control panel and change the IP address range if you wish. for quick access, type 'ncpa.cpl' in the run box.
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Assuming the XP defaults of DHCP & APIPA (Automatic Private IP Addressing) both machines will self assign IP addresses in the 169.254.x.x network range when the cross-over cable is connected between them (time-outs being what they are, this tends to take a while 5-10min) This should work fine for your (quick-N-dirty) purposes.
-Stoic Joker
I'd just set the IP's on the alternate config tab and you're done - as I understand it the machine will use DHCP, but if there's no DHCP server it will use the alternate IP's. It doesn't sound like you ever use the machines on other networks so this should be an easy solution
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thanks for all the help
someone stole my only other functioning keyboard so this is going to have to wait a little while (my main keyboard is not usb so a pain to swap)
will report back again - probably with more questions! :)
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Okay, when I wait for a while both computers say they're connected.
I presumed I would find the other computer under 'My Network places' - is that correct?
From one machine I can find nothing
From the other, if I go to Entire Network >MS Windows Network >Mshome I get a long delay and then:
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Microsoft Windows Network
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Mshome is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator of this server to find out if you have access permissions.
The list of servers for this workgroup is not currently available
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OK
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Now I suspect this might be my fault - I tweaked the other (older) machine a bit too much, partly because it was running out of space and memory etc. (& partly just because :-[)
IIRC I may have disabled some network related services - I'm going through them now on both machines & comparing in the hopes I can track down the problem (if that is it)
If you think it's something else, do shout! :)
FTR they both XP Home older one is SP2, newer SP3. Edit / both Admin accounts
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if you get the IP address of both PCs and ping each other, do they respond? or make a shared folder and try to access from the other computer: \\Computer name\Shared folder\.
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IIRC I may have disabled some network related services - I'm going through them now on both machines & comparing in the hopes I can track down the problem (if that is it)-tomos
then check if the Computer Browser service is enabled as well.
• http://wiki.blackviper.com/wiki/Computer_Browser
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Run the network setup wizard again on both.
Some times they forget after tweaking things.
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Tomos, this is what I use. Simple USB to USB connection to join 2 computers using an SIIG Data Link Adapter #JU-CSL012. Similar products are made by other companies.
Product (no longer made but still available on line): http://www.virtech.ca/detailProduct.php?str=SI-JUCSL0125 (http://www.virtech.ca/detailProduct.php?str=SI-JUCSL0125)
User Manual: [url=http://www.siig.com/Files/Manuals/0004/04-0336B.pdf]www.siig.com/Files/Manuals/0004/04-0336B.pdf [/url
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IIRC There is no way to turn off Simple File Sharing (which uses the guest account) in XP home. Make sure the Admin accounts match (password), share the root of C: with everyone, enable the guest account, Turn off anything that even looks like a firewall, and use \\IP_Address to connect to the 2nd machine.
Obviously this is not something one would do in a production environment as it's a screw security and rip the thing open tactic (but if you're in a hurry... :)).
Actually if you grab a copy of the Trinity Rescue Disk, and boot the target machine to that, you can select Samba No Security from the boot options menu and have free access to the target machine without any configuration changes. I don't remember if TRD supports APIPA but if it doesn't give itself an address it'll prompt you for one. APIPA range is 169.254.x.x/16
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OK thanks for all the tips.
Computer Browser Service is now enabled (wasnt on older pc) but still no joy. There wasn't anything else as far as I could see that would be causing a problem.
Actually if you grab a copy of the Trinity Rescue Disk, and boot the target machine to that, you can select Samba No Security from the boot options menu and have free access to the target machine without any configuration changes. I don't remember if TRD supports APIPA but if it doesn't give itself an address it'll prompt you for one. APIPA range is 169.254.x.x/16
-Stoic Joker
I might give this a go cause I'm just at a loss with all the other stuff (I just have too many questions questions - absolutely no former experience in this direction...).
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make sure
'Background Intelligent Transfer Service'
is running, you knew that i reckon
just covering the basics
that's where i usually start
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Is there a simple way to connect two computers ? Quick & dirty, I just want to get some files and compare some directories.
-tomos
Do both PCs have parallel ports, or USB ports? If so, and provided you have the appropriate special cables, you can just use Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com/). I used to routinely connect a WinXP and a Win98 that way (parallel port version).
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2tomos
For TC solution I recommend special USB cables like:
http://www.ghisler.com/cables/index.htm
I am using this solution for connecting my work laptop with home PC (both XP) and it works great.
Even if you can't find such cables there are plenty of USB cables which are not "Windows Easy Transfer" compatible but still offer nice PC-PC connection. Each PC treats them like standard USB disk with small application on it which manages all transfers.
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Unfortunately the Trinity Rescue Disk didnt recognise the usb keyboard on bootup so I wasnt able to change the boot options...
If I dig up another non-usb keyboard somewhere I'll try again...
Lanux, Stoic, Target, thanks for all the help :up: :up: - I'm sure I could figure it all out (with your help!) but it's just taking too much time (having absolutely no clue here makes it that much more of a struggle for me) - I'm just going to go for what I hope and pray is an easier solution (below)
2tomos
For TC solution I recommend special USB cables like:
http://www.ghisler.com/cables/index.htm
I am using this solution for connecting my work laptop with home PC (both XP) and it works great.
Even if you can't find such cables there are plenty of USB cables which are not "Windows Easy Transfer" compatible but still offer nice PC-PC connection. Each PC treats them like standard USB disk with small application on it which manages all transfers.
-fenixproductions
might try something like this (same idea as suggested by rjbull & jdd) - the cables shown in that TC link seem to be focused on copying stuff from older pc to newer one - in fact at least one of them seem to simply start copying stuff automatically according to an amazon review. They all work with their own software - OK, I found the TC FAQ page
http://www.ghisler.com/efaqusb.htm
Q: Each time I plug in the cable, Windows wants to start the Easy Transfer software! Can this be changed?
A: Yes, please start the tool TcUsbRun.exe once. It registers Total Commander as a handler for the USB connection. Each time you plug in the cable, you will then be asked whether you want to start Total Commander as a client or as a server. On one side you need to start it as a server, on the other as a client.
I can manage that I reckon ;-) (I hope, lol)
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Lanux, Stoic, Target, thanks for all the help :up: :up: - I'm sure I could figure it all out (with your help!) but it's just taking too much time (having absolutely no clue here makes it that much more of a struggle for me) - I'm just going to go for what I hope and pray is an easier solution (below)
-tomos
I had one last go. I have:
- Enabled Shared folders for "C" partition
- Activated Guest account on target computer
- I now disabled Windows Firewall
- I'm logged into Admin accounts on both computers (neither uses a password)
Tried to access with variations on these address:
\\Computer name\FolderName\ where FolderName = Folder in Root of C
\\Computer name
\\IPAddress\FolderName\
\\IPAddress\
I usually get a message to say the address cant be found or that the address is incorrect.
I've enabled all services that have *anything* to do with networks....
- Just wanted to let you know that I'm not giving up after not having had a good go at it ;-) (hard to let go of it all the same!)
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- I'm logged into Admin accounts on both computers (neither uses a password)
-tomos
I forget which Service Pack did it, but Network Access is blocked for accounts that have blank passwords.
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That was after XP SP1...at least I couldn't connect to my old, but remarkably solid Exchange server without supplying a password at the time I installed SP1.
I was in the same situation once a long time ago and could not be bothered to think twice about buying a small hub/switch for 8 USD, connecting normal network cables to it (which I already had) and manually filling in IP addresses on both systems.
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actually if you are on xp pro, you can go to gpedit.msc and tell it to allow blank passwords. I forget exactly where it is but could look it up if need be.
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I'm learning lots but still not getting there. I'm on XP home techidave.
I set new admin accounts on each pc, both with the same password but that didnt work either...
It seemed to take a lot longer to think about it when I tried to access it but in the end the message was that it couldnt find...
At this stage I'll probably give up, and in future I'll avoid tweaking sh!t (I dont even know if tweaking is the cause of the problem, but it makes the possible causes just too much in terms of narrowing things down, and not having to spend the whole week rebooting)
Thanks again for all the help people!
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Tomos,
why don't you use Teamviewer (http://teamviewer.com/index.aspx) to connect the two computers, assuming both computers have internet access (your explanations were not entirely clear to me) *or* are connected via crossover cable with IP numbers assigned.
Teamviewer allows you to do file transfer. For crossover cable connection you need to set Options>General>Incoming LAN connection to accept. Use the portable or full version.
I would also suggest you manage different network settings with NetSetMan (http://www.netsetman.com/index.php?s=nsm).
Both programs free for personal use.
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Are both computers in the same workgroup?
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Are both computers in the same workgroup?
-Deozaan
I dont really understand this question - isn't a workgroup a network?
If so, the answer is no. Just two 'free-standing' computers I thought I was hoping to connect
Tomos,
why don't you use Teamviewer (http://teamviewer.com/index.aspx) to connect the two computers, assuming both computers have internet access (your explanations were not entirely clear to me) *or* are connected via crossover cable with IP numbers assigned.
-brahman
No, I'm afraid only one has internet connection which is fine by me - but on reading about setting up a network I see they tend to presume you want all machines connected. I'm not going the network route anyway cause I reckon if I can't get this to work (crossover cable), I wont be able to get a network to work. I'm simply as the title says, trying to connect two pc's.... I'm going to get the 'special' usb cable and if that works I'm sorted. If not I'm screwed but it's no big deal :)
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On each computer you can check (My computer > properties > computer name tab) the computer name but also the workgroup it belongs to. It helps if they are the same on both computers.
By default the workgroup name is set to...Workgroup (at least it does on my XP Pro). Although this should not be an issue, it never hurts to check.
When they are different, you can make them equal by hitting the appropriate button
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As Shades eluded to above, workgroup name is only an issue if you are trying to browse machines using the GUI. Direct connect using \\IP Address bypasses the need for matching names.
Just out of curiosity...are the machines ping-able from each other when connected via cross-over cable? This has been a screwy enough issue that I'm half tempted to vitalize (damn spellcheck is on crack) virtualize a couple of XP Home machines just to see if I can duplicate it.
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sorry tomos to hear that the connection is still not working. i've had PCs with WinXP connected via crossover cable previously but can't remember if it was XP Pro or Home..
if you get the IP address of both PCs and ping each other, do they respond?-lanux128
btw like Stoic mentioned, can you confirm that the PCs are ping-able?
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can you confirm that the PCs are ping-able?
-lanux128
no!
From this page Using Ping to Troubleshoot Network Problem (http://www.home-network-help.com/troubleshoot-network.html) I first tried this:
4) Key in ping 127.0.0.1 in Command Prompt window. This is network card loopback address. If you receive Reply from 127.0.0.1, it works.
this worked on both machines -
presumably meaning the network cards are in order, but when I pinged the IP address of the other PC it timed out in both directions.
Remember the LAN network connection is using the Option "Obtain IP adress automatically" on both pc's and the Alternate Config is 10.1.1.1 & 10.1.1.2 for the rwo machines.
Is there any point in trying Simple Way to Check IP Address in Microsoft Windows (http://www.home-network-help.com/check-ip.html). Is there any point in trying to create a new LAN connection?
Internet work on both machines (when connected - I have to unplug the DSL cable in order to use the cross-over cable)
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@tomos:
You don't mention what version of XP is on either machine, the workgroup designation depends on the version of XP you're using, the defaults are:
XP Home - MSHOME
XP Pro - WORKGROUP
You'll need matching workgroups if you want to be able to easily compare directories side-by-side or use a program like Beyond Compare (http://www.scootersoftware.com/) or WinMerge (http://winmerge.org/), (while they can take an IP address, it is easier if you can browse to the respective directories that you want to compare using Windows Explorer).
If you want step-by-step instructions then I don't think it's going to get much more step-by-step than Lee Indy's tutorial (http://www.leeindy.com/connecting_two_computers_using_crossover_cables.shtml) - all 48 steps at one step per page, (makes me want to chew my arm off but hey :) ).
I've walked through them and it looks very simple to follow, pictures are included where necessary - there's also a tutorial for connecting via a router (http://www.leeindy.com/connect_two_computers_together.shtml).
No offence but considering your level of expertise in this, after finishing transferring/comparing files/directories I would recommend you unshare ALL directories (folders) you might have shared from the respective systems. (You really only have to share folders on one system and just use the other to browse/copy any files/folders.)
If your firewall is proving to block the connection then there is also tutorials on how to turn the most popular ones off here (http://www.leeindy.com/text_firewalls.shtml). REMEMBER to turn it back on BEFORE connecting to the internet.
EDIT: He seems to be relying on APIPA, (169.254.x.x), addresses to be assigned by default, (to save the reader from delving into network settings), as such it can take 2-3 minutes before they are assigned - the amount of time XP takes to decide there really is no 'outside' world ;)
EDIT: Boy my grammar goes to pot sometimes - corrected.
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can you confirm that the PCs are ping-able?
-lanux128
no!
-tomos
this is strange.. at this juncture, it might be helpful to have a screenshot of ipconfig /all for both PCs.
btw, a couple more t/shooting links:
• peer to peer workgroup setup - http://www.chicagotech.net/workgroupsetup.htm
• Troubleshooting ipconfig - http://www.chicagotech.net/troubleshootingipconfig.htm
P.S. also a spare set of cables would help eliminate the possibility of cable error..
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thanks 4WD for that link
I'll work my way through those (steps)
after finishing transferring/comparing files/directories I would recommend you unshare ALL directories (folders) you might have shared from the respective systems. (You really only have to share folders on one system and just use the other to browse/copy any files/folders.)
-4wd
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I'm not worried about making the one pc totally insecure cause it doesnt get connected to the internet and would just be temporarily connect to other pc. It's just sitting there so I thought I'd use it for backup at least but there's also some older stuff I want to copy off of it. But I will keep that in mind ;-) (with security I'm reasonably careful - I think anyways...)
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might try something like this (same idea as suggested by rjbull & jdd) - the cables shown in that TC link seem to be focused on copying stuff from older pc to newer one - in fact at least one of them seem to simply start copying stuff automatically according to an amazon review. They all work with their own software
FYI There is no 'special' software required with most of the USB datalink connections that are designed for this purpose, such as the one I mentioned earlier. You should be able to use any flavor of Windows Explorer software.
With XP, the drivers are loaded automatically when you connect the computers with the USB cables and, voila....you can copy or backup or move files from one to the other. Nothing should start copying or moving files automatically unless you set it up to intentionally do that.
You do not need to mess around with Internet connections or IP addresses, or work groups or pinging or any of this other stuff.
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thanks jdd, I think I'm going to keep going (for another while) with the epic network-style connection. I wouldnt mind setting up a network at some stage and reckon I'm learning a lot of the basics here :up:
@4WD
my god that was a helpful, but a very painful link there lol :D
If you want step-by-step instructions then I don't think it's going to get much more step-by-step than Lee Indy's tutorial (http://www.leeindy.com/connecting_two_computers_using_crossover_cables.shtml) - all 48 steps at one step per page, (makes me want to chew my arm off but hey :) ).
-4wd
*now* I understand about the chewing the arm off comment - is he trying to maximise his advertising views or what... Ironically the layout makes it very difficult to follow & he often has comments before the Step ## instructions which I didnt notice for a while..
But the step by step thing did make me realise:
the one XP is in German and the other English. I dont think this should cause a problem (maybe I should have said it sooner though) and I did check the workgroup names (but at different times) and was simply thinking, yeah, they're both default.
I was so bogged down with everything I didnt look at them side by side :-[
Of course the German one is in German... and the English one .... is in English
So I will have another go soon(ish) & report back (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/WHISTLE.GIF)
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By now you already had moved all your data with a stick and ´sneakernet´... :P
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If you want step-by-step instructions then I don't think it's going to get much more step-by-step than Lee Indy's tutorial (http://www.leeindy.com/connecting_two_computers_using_crossover_cables.shtml) - all 48 steps at one step per page, (makes me want to chew my arm off but hey :) ).
-4wd
*now* I understand about the chewing the arm off comment - is he trying to maximise his advertising views or what... Ironically the layout makes it very difficult to follow & he often has comments before the Step ## instructions which I didnt notice for a while..-tomos
Yeah, I know he is trying to help people but honestly 48 pages!?
4 or 5 steps per page would have made it a much better experience IMO - even with the advertising, (most of which is blocked via Adblock or Outpost here anyway).