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I'm thinking about learning how to program.
MilesAhead:
btw as long as we are discussing first programming languages, there's nothing wrong with FreeBASIC. It runs on Dos, Linux and Windows. It can create stand-alone compiled win32 programs. Like Python, you can start with a simple print statement as a first program.
Has classes, but not inheritance. Does have user defined types.
Since it uses gas assembler you can compile very small stand-alone Win32 apps. If you don't include a custom icon I'm talking less than 20 KB.
http://www.freebasic.net/index.php
Forum for guidance here:
http://www.freebasic.net/forum/
On Windows the default installer sets you up with FBIDE. It's really an editor with help set up so you can put the cursor on the first letter of a language keyword and press F1 to get help on Basic. It doesn't have any wizards or resource editors. Just some macros that let you set the compile command line etc.. You can run programs directly out of the editor. A simple way to start.
The source code files are set up similar to C language in this incarnation of Basic in that you have .bas files for the code files and .bi files for header files. It comes with a whole bunch of Win32 headers so that you can make most of the needed WinAPI calls without having to manually LoadLibrary and get the function pointer etc. Very nicely done.
Deozaan:
I'm thinking about learning how to program.
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Stop thinking about it and just do it.
steeladept:
Use the standard VS layout. Get rid of most of the windows, other than the output window, error window, solution window, toolbox window, and properties window. Dock them where ever you wish. Profit.
That's my point... there isn't much you *need* to use. The basic layout has a couple more windows than I said (find and one more, I think), but they aren't necessary to program. I came from Delphi 6/7 to VS 2005, and was up and running in no time... it's just a matter of focus, IMO. You can get distracted by all the bells and whistles, but there's still stuff that I'm learning after being in it for 5 years or so. I just pick it up as needed/wanted.
-wraith808 (October 31, 2010, 08:50 AM)
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I guess 4AM is not the best time to try and explain yourself :P :-\ I meant more of the difference between options, for example. It isn't like a typical text editor w/ some IDE-like facilities (nor should it be). You don't just start it and start typing. You have to set up a project, you have to define what kind of project it is (windows service, MVC, MVC2, etc.), you need to choose the language you will program in (VB vs. C#, etc), all before you even begin to think about typing code. Once that is all set (which I don't even know the difference between most of these option or when and why to choose one over another), you then have a huge structure of folders and files that, though empty, exist for who knows what purpose(s). Once everything is set up, or when editing previous code where these options are already set, I find VS a dream to work with (mostly - still have trouble wrapping my head around the code-behind paradigm), especially for refactoring, intellisense, and code completion; but getting to that point for new projects always stumps me. Moreover, I don't know what I don't know, so using a tool "when I need to learn it" means I need to know it exists in the first place, which just isn't true. That said, I do a LOT of web page design and updates using Visual Studio at work, so I do know a little about the interface, just not how to use most of it, or - as I already said - many (read most) of the potential functionality. In the end, I always feel I am just "doing it the hard way" because I don't know of anything else.
mouser:
C# is actually pretty good too -- it's been a while since i played around with it and having recently played with it some more i must say it would also be a good language to start with, and perhaps better than python if you are less interested in quick coding, and more interested in developing good Object Oriented Programming habits for larger projects.
superboyac:
C# is actually pretty good too -- it's been a while since i played around with it and i must say it would also be a good language, and perhaps better than python if you are less interested in quick coding, and more interested in developing good Object Oriented Programming habits for larger projects.
-mouser (October 31, 2010, 07:58 PM)
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I think so. I'm not in any rush. i'm not even committed to the idea of becoming a legit programmer. It's just that so many of my ideas are hindered by the fact that I'm not a programmer...both at work and personally. So I figure if I get slowly started, maybe by the time I'm 40 or something, I'll have another really great tool under my belt. It's really a long term plan I'm after. I'm definitely NOT interested in just learning as an academic excercise or anything like that. I'm at a point in my career and life that I need to focus on what it is I HAVE to do, and what I can pay others to do for me. I'm in a sort of skills housekeeping phase right now. i've amassed plenty of skills kind of indiscriminately over my life, and I'm now at a point where I have to just DO a lot of things.
This is kind of a weird little secret for me: I want to get to a point in my life where I can have a programmer on-hire for myself or my company. Someone I pay either a salary or some kind of on-going subscription kind of thing. I'd go to that individual with my ideas and cartoons, sketches, etc. to turn into programs. I know I'm good at that part, but the programming is really the meat of it and the thing I can't do yet.
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