DonationCoder.com Forum

DonationCoder.com Software => Older DC Contests and Challenges => The Getting Organized Experiment of 2006 => Topic started by: mouser on August 13, 2006, 10:06 AM

Title: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 13, 2006, 10:06 AM: Stay tuned for details!

edit:
THE PROJECT HAS NOW BEGUN, TO PARTICIPATE SIMPLY FOLLOW THE ASSIGNMENTS HERE:

https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?board=196.0
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 13, 2006, 06:55 PM: hmm, so this must be the 'game' with points that was discussed before... :D
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Dell[a] on August 13, 2006, 08:10 PM: what's GTD???
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 13, 2006, 09:01 PM: Get Things Done.
http://www.davidco.com/what_is_gtd.php

Now, a generalized acronym for doing things efficiently, getting your goals, administering time, etc
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: app103 on August 14, 2006, 01:52 AM: Oh, I think I know what this is. ;)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 14, 2006, 06:40 AM: Here is the GTD book that people who want to participate might want to buy (certainly not needed to participate but could be useful):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142000280
it's only $9 and is in most bookstores.

so if you want to pariticpate, and the project starts SEP 1, order now.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 16, 2006, 02:35 PM: SIGN UP HERE TO PARTICIPATE

Are you not working as efficiently as you could be?
Do you want to learn how to bettter manage your time and energy, and not waste time thinking about useless stuff?

Join the Club! Literally!

Lots of us on the forum are interested in the Getting Things Done approach to time management and working more efficiently. So we are going to spend three months, from September 1 to December 1 practicing GTD principles, and sharing our experience.

We'll have an informal "coach" of sorts available to help people who want to participate.

If you want to participate, please post here announcing your intentions to do so.
Please take this seriously, and only sign up here if you are serious about spending three months following GTD approach with some committment to stick to it for the entire period.

Overview of GTD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_things_done

So who's in?
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: KenR on August 16, 2006, 02:43 PM: And I thought it was going to be "Get the Duck"....

I'm interested in participating.

Ken
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 16, 2006, 04:08 PM: I'm in.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 16, 2006, 04:09 PM: i'm in, of course - just making it official.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Eóin on August 16, 2006, 05:51 PM: Yep count me in too.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: app103 on August 17, 2006, 06:51 AM: I am not sure what I have to 'get done', but I am sure I'll find plenty if I think about it...count me in too.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: brotherS on August 17, 2006, 07:24 AM: I'm in.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Darwin on August 17, 2006, 08:22 AM: I'm in...
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: brett on August 17, 2006, 08:39 AM: Sounds good, Im in.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 17, 2006, 09:40 AM: app said:
I am not sure what I have to 'get done'
Don't worry, we'll help you with this. :D. GTD proposes that you dump all the things you have lurking around in your head to some other media: paper, a file, whatever. That's a start. Sometimes just doing this will help. Looking the stuff you need to get done helps planning. Plus it feels like a relief.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 17, 2006, 12:05 PM: If you complete the experiment and don't fall off the wagon you will earn a badge designed by hamradio, like the programming school badges.

In your profile:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Under your name in posts:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: superboyac on August 17, 2006, 01:20 PM: Count me in, I think I already use some GTD techniques, but this will make it official.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: jgpaiva on August 17, 2006, 01:26 PM: I'm curious, which i guess means i'm in!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: digitalorganics on August 17, 2006, 04:20 PM: I'm In.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: genezip on August 17, 2006, 04:56 PM: "OK, I'll try it," the World's Greatest Procrastinator said.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: m_s on August 17, 2006, 05:14 PM: I'm in! Been using it for a year now, and it's changed my life.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Redhat on August 17, 2006, 05:26 PM: Yes please, I'm in :)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: ootzman on August 17, 2006, 06:21 PM: I'm in
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Osmyn on August 17, 2006, 09:24 PM: Great timing; I'm trying to GTD with a Palm Z22 that I just got..
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: danielburs on August 18, 2006, 12:30 AM: I'm a serious lurker here, and not a coder at all, but I'm in for sure! :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: peteg05 on August 18, 2006, 03:02 AM: Please count me in also.

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: markan on August 18, 2006, 03:44 AM: I'm in as well. I could really use the excuse to properly implement GTD instead of searching for a software tool that will provide a "silver bullet".
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Calipsy on August 18, 2006, 03:49 AM: I also would like to participate in this project.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: FlyingPig on August 18, 2006, 04:01 AM: :-\ ...well, I am sure I could be more efficient, but I still don't know if THIS will work for me or with me.

The biggest problem is that I'm busy and constantly travelling - so sometimes internet connection is out of question.

But what the heck....if you never never go, you never never know !

So yep!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: motdiem on August 18, 2006, 04:07 AM: I'm in, thanks for the contest idea
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Perry Mowbray on August 18, 2006, 04:40 AM: I'm in too (I think I just heard my desk give a cheer),

Thanks!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 18, 2006, 05:40 AM: I'm in as well. I could really use the excuse to properly implement GTD instead of searching for a software tool that will provide a "silver bullet".
-markan (August 18, 2006, 03:44 AM)

that is certainly the idea of the project/experiment.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: ski2dude on August 18, 2006, 06:42 AM: Count me in... I've been looking at this process for a while now so it's about time I plunged in!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: njsf on August 18, 2006, 07:25 AM: I'm in.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: meacster on August 18, 2006, 07:26 AM: Time to "Get Stuff Done"!

Count me in.... :up:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 18, 2006, 07:29 AM: Great to see all the new names and faces - welcome one and all :Thmbsup:
Hopefully we can all learn to be more efficient with our time and energy.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: jshelagh on August 18, 2006, 08:26 AM: Yes please. I would like to sign up
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: thomthowolf on August 18, 2006, 12:22 PM: Count me in, I have been using GTD for a while and not as well as I might like. This is another great idea
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Eóin on August 18, 2006, 01:26 PM: Great to see all the new names and faces - welcome one and all :Thmbsup:
-mouser (August 18, 2006, 07:29 AM)

Yeah this has really pulled a lot of people out of the woodwork, which is a very good thing :)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: david.intp on August 18, 2006, 02:03 PM: I'm in. I purchased MLO with DC's discount, with an eye to applying a GTD approach but, after a good start, I got distracted and fell off the wagon. :-[ Thanks for offering a great way for me to take another run at it. :up:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: NewKreation on August 18, 2006, 02:04 PM: Count me in!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: cpartridge on August 18, 2006, 02:28 PM: i'm in
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: vrgrrl on August 18, 2006, 06:06 PM: well i *really* hate systems but...uh, maybe that's my problem too? :tellme:

i'm in!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: tomos on August 19, 2006, 03:36 AM: inininin!

looking forward to this ...
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 19, 2006, 08:43 AM: I'm in. I purchased MLO with DC's discount, with an eye to applying a GTD approach but, after a good start, I got distracted and fell off the wagon. :-[ Thanks for offering a great way for me to take another run at it. :up:
-david.intp (August 18, 2006, 02:03 PM)

me too. i'm sure it's a common thing to happen, hence the need for this project.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: dallee on August 19, 2006, 10:54 AM: I'll participate also!

I'm not sure where you are starting, so I'll post here an edited explanation I gave to a non-technical group about preparation for a GTD implementation:

From several Yahoo groups on GTD, I'll give a summarization of what seem to be good first steps which are rarely described.

The basic points are to figure what YOU LIKE so that you will use your system, otherwise it won't work and require a lot of tweaking and changing.

REMEMBER that you are seeking a way which will permit a "brain dump" of tasks in months and years to come (as well as be useful to pull together what you already have on your horizons now).

AND your system should permits some reflection on your short and long-term goals, and picking next actions to move forward on them, so it should be something you would be willing to spent time with and not make you feel frantic or rushed.

So, here is my list for pre-GTD contemplation, all appropriate to sitting with your feet up without lifting a finger except maybe to make some notes:

1. Give a lot of thought to what APPEALS to you to handle and use. What "rocks your boat" that applies to list making?

-fountain pens? Then you would like a paper approach.
-high quality paper? (again, paper approach)
-notebook? (in what form? There are lots of Moleskine notebook fanatics, for example, but others like planners and the ability to customize forms and print them out)
-high tech? Think about a PDA or PDA cell phone, or computer.
-any preferences for leather, metal, plastic? Any color preferences?
-what do you carry around already? Can you use it or adapt it to a GTD assistance device?

2. Give a lot of thought to when, where and how you would ACCESS a list of "to do" items and also recording new items as they occur to you. Any constraints?

-on the fly? multiple locations? (weighs against computer or internet-based lists)
-in the car? (think about something with voice recording capacity)
-any feelings about size of your information capture device? (me, I like slim things and don't want to carry extra weight, so avoid a planner and like 3 by 5 cards in a leather jotter)
-at your desk? (computer would work)
-multiple computers? (that does take research, especially in how to synchronize the information flawlessly)

3. Think about how TECHNOLOGICAL are you and what you might want to do on a computer.

-like to design paper forms? would color printing appeal?
-use internet information repositories? More likely if you want to share your lists. The most favored of these include a site called "Remember the Milk," various internet calendars, and on-line wikis (look into these if you are interested, but they seem to be in relatively early days of their technologies).
-privacy concerns? (might weigh against internet repositories)
-willing to learn new programs? Would have to be willing to find and try out candidates and master whatever looks appropriate and believe the effort would be justifiable (if not, take a look at the features of your wordprocessing program and other programs you know already)

4. Does your EMAIL generate or support a significant portion of your activities or obligations?
-a lot of email input would weigh in favor of using something like Outlook or another program which links emails to tasks

5. Are there any OLD or NEW HABITS or ROUTINES you wish to track or record?
-make a check list? make a chart?
-use to frame steps? micromovements?
-keep a food journal? sleep journal? water journal?

6. Only thereafter make a shopping list and start to pull stuff togther ...

* * *

Hope this information is appropriate to add at this point of the discussion.

Dallee
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 19, 2006, 12:35 PM: very welcome, Dallee.

we'll be expecting advice from everyone that participates over the next three months - what works and what doesn't work for each individual will be valueable information to share.

you've certainly provided us with some initial things to think about and it will help to learn from an experienced GTD'er. i'm sure any further thoughts or advice will be welcomed by all that participate.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: merkin on August 19, 2006, 12:50 PM: I'm in.
:Thmbsup:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: santosh108 on August 19, 2006, 01:44 PM: Dont know if this will work for me. But do count me in :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: esiiteri on August 19, 2006, 02:01 PM: I'm in, what is our NA?
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Mentat on August 20, 2006, 04:00 AM: I'm usinf GTD since many years, but try to consolidate my system with PC's PDA's Papers Places ... So I'm in too ... to share and read all experiences and softwares testing :)

PS: I'll buy MLO, when I read the wonderful post of GTD softwares by m_s (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=3287.0) :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 20, 2006, 04:34 AM: Just a quick question... how many of us are using MLO? If we are quite a few, maybe a special thread with tips and tricks here would help.

If you are not using it, and plan to join the GTD experiment, this is a good time to give it a try. It really is a fantastic application.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 20, 2006, 05:02 AM: A big question that many may have is: How easy it is to implement GTD and stick to it?

Also, how many people here have tried GTD and fallen off the wagon one way or another?

I know I have. For a start, the GTD book is dense, and not a good read. Second, the system can be implemented in so many ways that it takes a lot of effort to find the right one for you. Third, it is complicated!

There is even an entire category of post in 43folders for people who have dropped GTD and are trying to be back :)

I mean, I don't doubt it works, but... it has to be learned and practiced. It's like playing an instrument.

On the other hand, I found the advice by Mark Forster (Get Everything Done, GED) easy to implement. really easy in comparison.

Check the reviews:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/customer-reviews/0340746203/ref=cm_rev_next/026-4696388-9079645?ie=UTF8&customer-reviews.sort%5Fby=-SubmissionDate&n=266239&s=books&customer-reviews.start=21

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0340909129/026-4696388-9079645?v=glance&n=266239&s=books&v=glance

And it complements GTD fairy well...
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 20, 2006, 05:45 AM: I'm in, what is our NA?
-esiiteri (August 19, 2006, 02:01 PM)

what does NA mean?
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 20, 2006, 05:55 AM: just an example of how GED works: it advocated closed lists, not todo lists. The problem with todo lists is that they grow and grow, and for any item crossed you manage to add two. The solution proposed is to have closed lists:

To Do Lists -- How we hate them!
http://www.markforster.net/index.php?view=46

PS: I'm in no way related to this site, just found the two books really good and easy compared to my struggling with GTD...
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 20, 2006, 05:55 AM: NA = next action
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 20, 2006, 06:00 AM: the books you recommend by Mark Foster look interesting, urlwolf. the only problem is that the thought of reading two books before i get anything done is already frustrating me - this might just be the mood i'm in today.

i'll think about ordering them in a few minutes - or maybe i'll just go and bang my head against a wall for a bit - and then order the books.

by the end of all this i really hope we have found a ridiculously simple way of getting things done.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 20, 2006, 06:19 AM: urlwolf, i think you have revealed a very valuable source with Mark Forster. i have to agree with his anti to-do list theory. i'd say that's exactly why i don't use 'mylife organized' - or maybe i'm just not organized enough to actually use the program.

i'd been thinking for some time that with all the best intentions that you might have, there are still going to be times when you just cannot, or just will not, do the task you were expected to do. and there are times when you would simply prefer to be doing something else - welcome procrastination. it looks like Forster has thought about these lapses and allowed for them - so that's good reasoning in my book.

oh, i really, really hope we discover something really useful through all of this.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: JacobB on August 20, 2006, 03:13 PM: I've been implementing GTD in my life for a few years, and I would like to participate, share my experience or anything that I can help.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: app103 on August 20, 2006, 07:10 PM: Hi JacobB! Have you seen Instant Boss yet? I think it came out pretty good. I hope you like it too. :)

https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=4430.msg32502#msg32502
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Dell[a] on August 20, 2006, 09:46 PM: count me in....
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Amadawn on August 21, 2006, 12:28 AM: Count me in too! :-)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 21, 2006, 05:08 AM: Nudone,

Before anything, thanks a lot for the huge effort that you seem to be putting into this!

About Forster's score system:
In the page you mention he has an 'all or nothing' approach. That is, if you don't do all the tasks you set up for your day, you get 0 points.

I *think* I have read somewhere in his 2 books that he relaxed that scoring system but I might be wrong.

I spent 15 min looking for it and couldn't find it (damn paper version of books, if it was a pdf I'd be done!).

I think Forster is a dormant giant. Right now, GTD is completely dominating the field. But... watch out for GED. He is in the UK, whereas David Allen is in the US and a lot more 'commertial' (he has an entire company doing marketing, etc). GED is a one-man operation.

I think somebody with experience designing games *here at donation coder there must be someone!* should take care of the scoring system.

I encourage you to read at least "do it tomorrow". It's tiny.
I commit myself (here, a first commitment even before the GTD challenge has started :) ) to read the two books and post a review.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 21, 2006, 06:10 AM: okay, i shall also order both of the Forster books later today.

from what i've read so far on his website i do like what he has to say. he's been through the GTD process and realised it isn't perfect - something many of us will relate to. he also has ideas that will be common i'm sure to those of us that have pondered on how to change our bad habits.

mouser will be developing the game scoring, or whatever it eventually turns out to be, but it will depend on what we learn and suggest as a group.

it has been suggested that we all attempt to live by the common GTD 'rules' for the first month of the experiment and then we can discuss what a scoring based method will require. the second or final month of the experiment will then hopefully be performed using the 'scoring program' for those of us that feel like using it.

the most important part will simply be the taking part as a group and hopefully finding that sharing the experience helps get things done. all being well, the scoring program will provide a solo method of sticking to GTD when there is no one else there to provide encouragement.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Münster on August 21, 2006, 08:53 AM: Sounds very interesting. I sure could use a "personal upgrade" in that area so, I'm in.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: dallee on August 21, 2006, 03:55 PM: FYI there is an accepted scoring method for GTD, based on white through black belts.

It is from a David Co. newsletter and is set out in a message posted on their freely accessible web pages. The link is
http://davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5265

Set out in full below, without attempting to deter framing an alternate scoring system.

Dallee

* * *
White Belt

You’ve recognized the art of workflow management as something to get personally better at. White belt is actually a rank to be proud of – it means you’ve begun, which puts you ahead of those who are not conscious of, or not interested in, improving your game. You’ve had a taste of what it’s like to clear the decks, with perhaps a Mind Sweep and an initial gathering of things that have your attention in your work area and maybe at home as well. You’ve become more conscious of your in-basket as a place to toss still unprocessed stuff. You’re writing things down a little more than you previously did, a little more consistently. You’ve made a stab at setting up some sort of list-management tool and structure.

Green Belt

You’ve got some lists that you use regularly, and you’re comfortable with your system for some basic things. A self-management tool is with you most of the time. You’ve tasted the thrill of zero in your e-mail in-basket a few times. You’ve set up a workable paper-based filing system, and have a labeler you use yourself. You’ve purged and organized at least one major “black hole” storage area at work or at home. You’ve actually done one relatively thorough Weekly Review and tasted the accompanying on-top-and-in-charge feeling. You’ve started to swear by the Two-Minute Rule. You’ve got some sort of portable note-taking device you’re actually using now and then. You try to convince people around you how cool all this stuff is and that they should do it too. “What are we trying to accomplish?” and “What’s the next action?” are creeping into your operational vocabulary with others at work.

Brown Belt

You don’t hesitate to write things down, even when old-fashioned people around you aren’t. You no longer need a reminder to get your head empty regularly. You’re doing “Monthly Weekly Reviews.” Home and office are equally under control. “List maker” is no longer a pejorative. No notes are left on legal pads. E-mail is a zero at least once a week. Processing your paper in-basket is actually fun, most of the time. You have a “Projects” list that is probably 75% complete and current. In the dentist’s office, you have your own reading material. You’ve stopped interrupting people around you for non-emergency communications, choosing e-mail or notes into their in-baskets instead. You’re feeling comfortable with a big list of undone actions. You’ve set up a Someday/Maybe list and have moved items there from your Projects lists, and vice-versa. You don’t share your labeler. All paper-based reference that won’t stand up by itself is in your files, and you actually like to file stuff. You’re somewhat intolerant of those who don’t exercise the same best practices. You’ve started some good checklists. You know what to do with almost everything. Your next-action lists are actually next actions, not small sub-projects. A majority of your focus is thinking about your stuff instead of of it. “What are we trying to accomplish?” and “What’s the next action?” are creeping into your operational vocabulary with others at home.

Black Belt

You have to look at your Calls list to know whom you have to call. You trust your intuitive prioritizing all day long. You can’t stand not doing a complete Weekly Review, and you’re operationally squeaky clean at least every couple of weeks. Your review time regularly takes you down constructive rabbit trails of creative thinking, decision-making, and idea generation. You no longer complain about lack of quality thinking time. You can leave a mountain of stuff in your in-basket and still have a good time, confident it’s all in a trusted system and will get tackled soon enough. You’re using speed keys instead of your mouse. You create useful temporary checklists on a whim. You’re willing to tackle thinking about any project or situation on call. All of your reference files have been reviewed within the last year. Your systems are completely accessible, functional and intact as you move from location to location. Others are highly sensitive to what they bring into your environment. There is little distinction between work and personal – there’s simply a positive focus on whatever you’re doing. You know how (and do) get yourself totally back into control by yourself, when you’ve slipped much longer than you’re comfortable with. You don’t need to convince anyone about the methodology – you’re usually not thinking about it, merely using it. You’ve stopped complaining about e-mail. You’ve lost only a couple of receipts this year. Friends no longer want you to see inside their offices or cars.

Black belt – 2nd Degree

Time has disappeared, most of the time. You often move fast, but you’re seldom busy. When you’re playing with the dog, you’re not thinking about any of the big stuff – you’ve already thought about it. You know what every key in your desk drawer is for.
__________________
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 21, 2006, 04:08 PM: thanks, that's useful to know, dallee, but it's not anything remotely like the scoring system we'll hopefully be discussing/introducing later on.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on August 21, 2006, 06:03 PM: Here is a extremely nice doc explaining how real users of MLO feel after using open lists (to dos) for a while, and what they think the software should provide.

http://www.cunningham.me.uk/mlowiki/index.php?title=The_Real_To_Do_List

I think the idea of closed lists is tied to the idea of scoring.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: TucknDar on August 22, 2006, 12:10 PM: Have to say that GED really looks like something I could use. Gonna buy Forster's book and see if it helps me Get Everything Done ;)

Procrastinating is fun... :'(
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Deozaan on August 22, 2006, 02:13 PM: I still don't understand what GTD is. Sounds like someone just made up a catch phrase to get people to do what they should be doing anyway without paying for David Allen to come psyche them up to get organized etc.

I'd like to GTD, but I don't really know what that entails.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: longrun on August 22, 2006, 08:13 PM: I think I'll join, maybe tomorrow or the next day....
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Jumble on August 22, 2006, 09:01 PM: I just finished reading David Allen's book (GTD). I'm very intrigued by his ideas, and I want to try putting them into practice. Maybe with the help of the "GTD Experiment," I will start off on the right foot. I'm enthusiastic about participating!
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 24, 2006, 05:26 PM: Talking with Nudone and Urlwolf, i think there are several ways we could go with the GTD Experiment, depending on what people want to do.

Here is what sounds most interesting to me personally: Start out with GTD basics, which i personally find very sensible. And then after a while, when everyone has put into practice the key ideas for a few weeks, begin to discuss other ideas, like GED, and encourage people to share their experiences of what works and doesnt.

In other words, everyone who is participating is commiting to improve their efficiency and working process in a dramatic and permanent way. We are doing this because we all want to learn to better manage the stuff we want to accomplish, and feel less stressed doing it.

This 3 month experiment is designed to help us find what works best for us and share those experiences. The same thing that works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. But by the end of these 3 months, you *will* have a system in place, and a new attitude about accomplishing your tasks.

You may find that GTD is perfect for you, and never veer off; you may find that you have to invent your own system.

The important thing is that by the end of the 3rd month, you will have a new system that works for you. There is no room for excuses about "this system is a gimick it didn't work for me!" - because if it doesnt work it's YOUR responsibility to invent a system that does.

By sharing our ideas and experiences, perhaps we can come up with some new principles and rules for our own new DC-style efficiency system.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 27, 2006, 02:57 PM: i've finished reading Mark Forster's most recent book 'Do It Tomorrow'. like urlwolf, i will now recommend it to anyone looking for guidance on how to manage their time better - especially if you have tried the GTD system in the past and not managed to stick at it.

i'm sure we'll be able to discuss the techniques found in the book over the oncoming weeks but i really don't think it fair to recite the words of Mr. Forster in detail here - it's more correct if his books are bought by anyone wishing to know more.

i will start to implement the Forster technique tomorrow - maybe only in a half-hearted way to serve as a warm up for the real DC GTD experiment kick-off.

anyway, i find myself unable to criticise anything that he has to say in the book - every bit of scepticism i had has gone and i'm looking forward to being fully productive from now on - and if i'm not i won't feel bad about it.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 28, 2006, 12:03 PM: now i'm intrigued, since you are usually a skeptic and cynic about this stuff.
how about filling us in a little on what you like so much. and which book of his did you read? one seems older but available everywhere - the other is newer and seems not available yet in the US.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 28, 2006, 04:05 PM: Mark Forster - Do It Tomorrow

amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0340909129/sr=8-1/qid=1156787076/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1694445-6226413?ie=UTF8

amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0340909129/202-6750647-0951050?v=glance&n=266239&v=glance

what do i like about his approach?

well, i've yet to put everything he says to the test as i don't have any 'real' deadlines to do anything (aren't i lucky). so, i've still got to 'embrace' the rules of the game.

anyway, the things i like about his approach...

don't use to-do lists setting yourself priority tasks - you'll never get around to doing the lowest priority tasks, especially if you just keep adding to the list as you wipe off your done tasks. simple and obvious. instead use a closed-list with a realistic set of tasks that can be done in a day. do all the tasks - doesn't matter what order you do them - just aim to complete them all.

categorise out of control procrastinated tasks/lists as a 'backlog' and separate it away from your daily 'will-do' list. he has recommendations of how to work on this 'backlog' but i'm not explaining everything here.

work on 'batches' of tasks.

new/important projects and tasks should be acted upon first thing each day - before you allow yourself to start inventing other jobs to do.

it helps to work on longer projects by using shorter bursts of activity but on a regular basis - this keeps the project alive.

he also recommends using a method of tricking oneself into getting a task done or, more precisely, into tricking oneself to start a task you seem to keep avoiding. this is done by litterally telling yourself that you aren't really going to do the task but instead you will just perform the very first step of whatever the task may be, eg. don't want to mow the lawn but know you really must - tell yourself you are just going to look in the shed or maybe just clean the lawn mover - you'll often find yourself automatically carrying on with the full task once you've done the pretend start task.

no doubt all of this will sound all too obvious or blindingly simple - and so it should. the book expands on the points i've briefly outlined as well as describing others. i'm sure you'll find similar ideas by other authors on the web and in print. Mark Forster just seems to be someone that has tried the GTD system, realised it didn't work as well as it could and has changed bits of it so that now his version just sounds like common sense, i.e. why would anyone do it any other way.

now, i'm sure that many, or even all, of the self-motivation systems work if you have the discipline to follow them exactly as their rules set out. the problem is that some of these systems are less realistic than others - if you are a super disciplined kind of person then you'll succeed whichever path you follow - if you are not so super, then i think following a system that realises you are always going to be fallible and makes you aware of the limitations you'll encounter is a better one to buy into - GED, or Get EVERYTHING Done by Forster appears to be that system. the crucial thing to be aware of is what the EVERYTHING is for you - of course.

do i think he has the 'complete' system? maybe - for some people. but i'm sure the original version of GTD is perfect for some people. i don't think any system answers everything and i'm sure we'll find many novel and workable suggestions by the people who are going to participate in the DC GTD experiment.

8) the future's so bright i have to wear shades.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: Jimdoria on August 29, 2006, 02:47 PM: I'll join in too. I bought GTD a while back and got partway through it, but then it sat on my shelf. Time to have another go, and good timing since work and external commitments are both ramping up now.

I really DO hope however this won't devolve into competing "camps". :-P

BTW - In GTD it says early on that even if you don't implement the whole "system", just learning a few of the "tips and tricks" can make a big difference in how much you get done. I've found this to be true, and it's probably true of any other organizing system worth its salt as well. The journey is usually more important than the arrival.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 29, 2006, 02:57 PM: welcome aboard, Jimdoria.

i don't think there will be need to take sides as we'll be sharing our experiences and techniques so there will be overlap between the well defined systems.

perhaps it needs to be stressed that the system that 'works' is the one that becomes just another habit in your life - after a few weeks/months the system ought to be second nature - the most natural way of doing whatever task(s) you are going to do. a system that is too much trouble to even maintain after a few months is obviously going to fail.

but that is why we are here - to find a system that becomes automatic - well, that's what i'm striving for.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: mouser on August 29, 2006, 03:44 PM: I really DO hope however this won't devolve into competing "camps". :-P

BTW - In GTD it says early on that even if you don't implement the whole "system", just learning a few of the "tips and tricks" can make a big difference in how much you get done.

As Nudone says, different systems may work better for different people. I think the main idea here is for everyone to make a serious commitment to figuring out a system that works for them, where it is GTD, GED, or some hybrid of your own making.

I think we will want to share ideas from many systems and encourage people to reflect and discuss what works for them, in an effort to get a crash course and tour in various possibilities, the better to help you decide what works best for you.

Your mission is to have a real "system" in place at the end of 3 months, that you actually follow, which will positively effect your productivity and happiness for the rest of your life.

IMPORTANT: Which techniques work best for you is going to be something you are going to have to discover. But it's your repsonsibility to have on at the end of the 3 months - no excuses that you couldn't find one that "fit your style." If you can't find an existing system in this 3 months, it's your job to *create* one for yourself within that timeframe that does (and share your insights with others).
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 29, 2006, 03:46 PM: well said, mouser.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: patteo on August 31, 2006, 05:00 AM: I'm in. I purchased MLO with DC's discount, with an eye to applying a GTD approach but, after a good start, I got distracted and fell off the wagon. :-[ Thanks for offering a great way for me to take another run at it. :up:
-david.intp (August 18, 2006, 02:03 PM)

Me too. I have had David Allen's book for a couple of years now. I'm struggling to restart and perhaps this experiment with give me a jumpstart.

Just a side note on MLO discount. Since we are talking of this experiment, it would be great if Mouser and/or Superboyac (credit for introducing MLO goes to him) can get the author to extend the discount again to donationcoders.

Also the since the discount expired before MLO PocketPC version was launched, although he does offer the MLO PPC version for $18 instead of $29.95 if you bought the MLO professional.

It would be nice if he can extend the discount for those who would like to get going for this experiment, and off course even a discount from the $18 for those who bought MLO Professional and have yet to buy the PPC version.

Personally I think if you use MLO Professional, you will eventually need the MLO PPC version so that you can update on the go.

Why did I fall off the MLO (GTD) chair ? I think one of the key reasons was that yes, you can prioritize Tasks with MLO with the in-built computed score priority method, but unfortunately (at least to me), you cannot see if based on the importance and priority of a task, there was no visual feedback in the Outline tab whether the task would appear in the To-Do tab that shows your so-called Next Action. I mean, if I thought that submitting my Tax Return next week was important and urgent, it certainly should appear as my Next Action, and hence there should be a quick visual feedback that it would indeed appear.

That left we with a nagging fear that something that I expected to be in the To-Do tab would not be there and I would miss it especially if it was critical.

I thought that this detracted from David Allen's dump from your brain principle.

I wrote to the MLO forum but I don't remember a response from the author.

Maybe another MLO user here can give me a solution to this.

Perhaps, this is probably due to my lack of understanding of how the whole system works and maybe through this experiment, I will gain a much deeper insight.

Having said that, I still think MLO (www.mylifeorganized.net) is probably the closest one can get to a software that follows closely the principle behind GTD, that also includes a version for the PocketPC.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: nudone on August 31, 2006, 05:44 AM: i think/hope that urlwolf will be making a post soon about 'ToDoList' http://www.codeproject.com/tools/ToDoList2.asp and the way it might be customised to fit in with what we are doing here. when he does i am expecting that we will not really need MLO.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: patteo on August 31, 2006, 05:48 AM: Hmm,

I wonder if it has something that can be used on PocketPC to cater to those on the go.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: urlwolf on September 02, 2006, 08:30 PM: Ok, guys, here is my review of toDoList:
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=5057.msg35213#msg35213

Note the naming crash of this application and our very own app's tool also reviewed here at donation coder.

Sorry about the crosspost :).

Just so you know, we (Nudone, Mouser and me) have been considering the posibility of 'standarizing' the data collection and scoring as a plugin for this program. It's kind of a big issue to ask people to use the same program, but it would mean a lot of integration and simplicity for the people involved in the organization of the experiment.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: animelover120 on September 03, 2006, 09:58 AM: That task was pretty easy. I just had to clear off all the extra papers off my desk for the most part and reorganize some things. (Come to think of it, I shoud've done that a month ago...)
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: yacht_boy on September 05, 2006, 08:31 AM: Just found out about this--I'm in! Have had GTD sitting in my room for almost 2 years now, but have never been able to get myself to read it.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: app103 on September 05, 2006, 04:18 PM: Ok, guys, here is my review of toDoList:
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=5057.msg35213#msg35213

Note the naming crash of this application and our very own app's tool also reviewed here at donation coder.
-urlwolf (September 02, 2006, 08:30 PM)

Yes, I noticed that. :-[

Seems that one is pretty popular, and people have decided to refer to it as 'TDL'.

I think to lessen the confusion, maybe mine should be referred to as 'tdo', in lowercase because it's a small app, after the file extension it uses for todo lists.

Unless someone has a better idea for a new name for mine.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: momonan on September 05, 2006, 04:24 PM: How about WhatToDo? WTD.
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: hugosanchez on September 10, 2006, 12:59 PM: I will try it.
hugo
Title: Re: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?
Post by: tomos on September 10, 2006, 03:04 PM: Hugo,

check out:

https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=5123.0
&
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=5034.0

(the first two assignments in this project)