Microdoft is discovering it's hard to sell a small office on the advantages of dropping semi-serious money on SBS or their stripped-down entry-level server products when you can score a tricked-out little gem like WHS for about $150. Network backups, storage media pooling, simple workable RAS, media server features, good system management tools that don't take an MS Certification to understand and use - what's not to like?-40hz (December 02, 2010, 02:31 PM)
Does this mean that one day I'll auto-update my WHS and discover I've lost its most important features? :'(-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:05 PM)
Microdoft is discovering it's hard to sell a small office on the advantages of dropping semi-serious money on SBS or their stripped-down entry-level server products when you can score a tricked-out little gem like WHS for about $150. Network backups, storage media pooling, simple workable RAS, media server features, good system management tools that don't take an MS Certification to understand and use - what's not to like?-40hz (December 02, 2010, 02:31 PM)
Ya gotta good point there - But Foundation Server 2008 is awfully cheap with entry level server hardware it's (approx) $600. The SOHOs that are jumping to WHS are workgroup/homegroup users that are actually upselling themselves to WHS by not using the (completely insane) working server model.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2010, 03:32 PM)
Who are these pinheads who make such idiotic decisions?-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:48 PM)
Holy crap. That's pretty crazy.Who are these pinheads who make such idiotic decisions?-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:48 PM)
Ultimately?
This guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc)
Any questions? :P-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:11 PM)
But Foundation Server 2008 is awfully cheap with entry level server hardware it's (approx) $600.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2010, 03:32 PM)
That's pretty crazy.-superboyac (December 02, 2010, 04:22 PM)
But Foundation Server 2008 is awfully cheap with entry level server hardware it's (approx) $600.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2010, 03:32 PM)
Agree. But when you get right down to it, it's little more (more?) than a glorified NAS. (Hello! Can you say Linux?) ;D-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:29 PM)
You could also run WHS on comparable hardware (especially now that Vail requires 64-bit) and get a whole lot more bang for the buck unless you see a looming need for what active directory can provide. For most small offices, AD is overkill. (And if AD glitches, it won't be something they'll be able to fix for themselves.)-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:29 PM)
Then there's the issue of needing CALs, which comes as a nasty shock to most first-time business server owners...That issue has pretty much been killed in Server 2008. If someone forgets to get their extra CALs (they do all come with 5), they'll never know the difference (unless they're audited). The whole license service/install licenses/event logs filling with CAL deficiencies errors crap has been completely removed.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:29 PM)
@SJ- I think I may have failed to convey what I was trying to say.Not really, I think we're just trying to debate this from the same side (e.g. we agree)-40hz (December 02, 2010, 06:58 PM)
I am very much in support of WHS as a SOHO server solution over using workgroups. I also meant Foundation was a glorified NAS if used exclusively in it's base role as a file/print server. That being said, any dedicated 'real' server is a far better choice than trying to run even the smallest business network without one.Got that part, have not problem with it/agree.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 06:58 PM)
I won't even start to comment on SBS since I feel it's a generally mis-marketed product. Don't know if it's true where you are, but from what I've seen it's not a good choice for about 75% of the businesses I've seen that bought it. Most would have been far better off with the standard server product.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 06:58 PM)
I agree if DNS is set up properly. But half the server issues I get called in on are the result of DNS configuration mistakes So from my perspective, that's a pretty big if. I'm sure you've had your share of calls for that. Why so many company "computer gurus" feel the need to muck with DNS settings on a Windows server will always remain a mystery to me.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 06:58 PM)
So MS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they pushed SOHOs away from WHS.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2010, 09:46 PM)
Who are these pinheads who make such idiotic decisions?-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:48 PM)
Ultimately?
This guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc)
Any questions? :P-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:11 PM)
Who are these pinheads who make such idiotic decisions?-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:48 PM)
Ultimately?
This guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc)
Any questions? :P-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:11 PM)
Yeah. Didn't he leave Microsoft a while back to go work for EA or something like that?-Deozaan (December 03, 2010, 12:42 AM)
So MS would be shooting themselves in the foot if they pushed SOHOs away from WHS.-Stoic Joker (December 02, 2010, 09:46 PM)
That, or pushing them towards 365 when it finally comes out.
For some reason, I keep getting the nagging feeling that MS ultimately wants to go over to a "software as a service" model of business for everyone but enterprise clients.
It would make sense. For one thing, it would effectively eliminate casual piracy. And it would also reduce support to requests on how to use an app as opposed to how to also get it (and the OS) to run correctly.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
Lots of my clients are very interested in getting out from under supporting their own computing infrastructure. Several are actively exploring the viability of "cloud" solutions for their desktop and data storage needs. Maybe they're a bit premature and buying into the industry buzz for where we currently are. But I'm sure it will all become very doable in the relatively near future.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
Most have already outsourced their web hosting. About half have done the same with email and purchase transaction processing. So it's only a short psychological hop to the notion of pushing their servers and office apps up to a virtual world.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
In some respects this has parallels with the history of the personal computer. When PCs first came out, the old mainframe crowd dismissed them as unsuitable for 'real' computing. Quarter of a century later and the same thing is happening to the PC and local server world as web apps, virtualization, and clouds offer up a new vision of how to get things done.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
Gonna be an interesting five or so years coming up, that's for sure. 8)-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
is DriveExtender basically RAID JBOD?-f0dder (December 03, 2010, 06:52 AM)
Ah, OK - might be a loss after all, then :)is DriveExtender basically RAID JBOD?No, it has built in redundancy and deduplication features so you can "safely" blow and replace a drive without losing any data. Granted to the end user it behaves like JBOD but it's much more under the hood.-f0dder (December 03, 2010, 06:52 AM)-Stoic Joker (December 03, 2010, 07:06 AM)
Last weekend I found some blog posts by a blogger who calls himself "Fear the Cowboy" discussing some of the more severe technical limitations that RAID (especially RAID 5) has compared to Windows Home Server Drive Extender. Check out his posts here.
His posts got me motivated to write this one, which I've been meaning to do for quite some time...
When we were thinking of building the Windows Home Server product and doing focus groups we'd ask consumers "what do you know about RAID". Uniformly the answer was (at least in the U.S.) "Oh, that's a insect repellant".
Geeks & IT professionals know RAID stands for "Redundant Array of Independent Disks" and is a storage technology widely used in the corporate IT world.
Those same geeks, when encountering Windows Home Server for the first time, often ask the question "Why doesn't Windows Home Server use RAID?". The simplest answer is RAID sucks as the basis for a consumer storage product. But, my PR team would rather I not say it in such a negative way. Instead, they want me to say something positive like:
"Windows Home Server is a consumer product that provides an amazingly powerful yet super-simple to use solution to centralizing a mutli-PC household's storage. Windows Home Server includes a new, revolutionary storage technology we call Windows Home Server Drive Extender that kicks RAID's butt."
Or something like that.
Most have already outsourced their web hosting. About half have done the same with email and purchase transaction processing. So it's only a short psychological hop to the notion of pushing their servers and office apps up to a virtual world.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
We've got one client (SMB doctors office) that is hosting their Email domain with Gmail. While it is nice given the free hosting of mail@your-domain it has so far proven to be about half as reliable as a coin toss. The web development company that did their site, and recommended the Gmail solution said that it worked fine for many of their clients. So I'm trying really hard to reserve judgment ... But it's becoming difficult (aliases fail, MX record lookups fail, etc.).-Stoic Joker (December 03, 2010, 07:01 AM)
Most have already outsourced their web hosting. About half have done the same with email and purchase transaction processing. So it's only a short psychological hop to the notion of pushing their servers and office apps up to a virtual world.-40hz (December 02, 2010, 10:19 PM)
We've got one client (SMB doctors office) that is hosting their Email domain with Gmail. While it is nice given the free hosting of mail@your-domain it has so far proven to be about half as reliable as a coin toss. The web development company that did their site, and recommended the Gmail solution said that it worked fine for many of their clients. So I'm trying really hard to reserve judgment ... But it's becoming difficult (aliases fail, MX record lookups fail, etc.).-Stoic Joker (December 03, 2010, 07:01 AM)
Hosting a med practice's email on The Goog?
That definitely takes a bigger set of kahunas then I've got!-40hz (December 04, 2010, 08:58 AM)
But what I was talking about was more along the lines of springing for a hosted Exchange server through one of the reputable business-class hosting companies. My personal feeling is that if your mail/ groupware requirements have reached the point where you need something like Exchange, you either need in-house IT - or a priority support contract/remote host arrangement if you're gonna go down that road. Because once you start using a groupware product, your whole business operation becomes completely dependent on it in relatively short order. So unless you have full time IT, you don't want to be running your own Exchange server.-40hz (December 04, 2010, 08:58 AM)
Not to say my organization won't be happy to provide (and invoice) support for it of you do bring your own "e-box" into the server room. But that still won't get you fail-over without spending more money.-40hz (December 04, 2010, 08:58 AM)
Y'know what? I just realized I'd be making piles more money if I weren't so honest with my SMB clients. Gotta do something about that one of these days. :huh:
Kidding...just kidding.-40hz (December 04, 2010, 08:58 AM)
Might I inquire about the nature and location of your organization? Specifically does your organization provide Exchange hosting?-Stoic Joker (December 04, 2010, 11:21 AM)
I too have been drawn to the dark side at times ... But one look in the mirror, and I just - can't - do - it.
We don't offer hosted anything as yet although we've certainly been talking about it.-40hz (December 04, 2010, 01:55 PM)
I spend most of my time swapping hats faster that a kleptomaniac octopus at a haberdashery.;D ;D ;D :Thmbsup: Love it!-Stoic Joker (December 04, 2010, 04:49 PM)
I spend most of my time swapping hats faster that a kleptomaniac octopus at a haberdashery.;D ;D ;D :Thmbsup: Love it!-Stoic Joker (December 04, 2010, 04:49 PM)-steeladept (December 05, 2010, 01:42 AM)
Who are these pinheads who make such idiotic decisions?-timns (December 02, 2010, 03:48 PM)
Ultimately?
This guy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc)
Any questions? :P-40hz (December 02, 2010, 04:11 PM)
Yeah. Didn't he leave Microsoft a while back to go work for EA or something like that?-Deozaan (December 03, 2010, 12:42 AM)
Nyet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer-40hz (December 03, 2010, 01:06 AM)
When I first read about this I noticed that HP dropped WHS like a hot potato in its Media Server line, and is now using WebOS. (Zaine mentioned that in the original post too.) So how will that work? I thought that WebOS was just a cute name for distributed computing. So HP will have all your data online? Like on their own servers, or Amazon S3? Rather than local? Or am I misunderstanding the term?-J-Mac (January 21, 2011, 12:06 AM)
Just out of curiosity, which feature from MS desktop was dropped that was picked by linux recently ?It wasn't dropped from the desktop, it was dropped from WHS (Windows Home Server) - It being the Drive Extender functionality that allowed dis-contiguous space to be dynamically pooled and used.-mahesh2k (January 21, 2011, 05:22 AM)