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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: lanux128 on August 05, 2011, 12:19 AM
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a number of gamers might have noticed the recent fallout between two major players in PC gaming, Valve and EA. this article examines some aspects of it.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/steam_savior_or_slayer_pc_gaming)
• http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/steam_savior_or_slayer_pc_gaming
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Interesting take on things there. But I didn't really get much out of it. Steam has never worked for me; their payment system is too rigid. If you want to see an excellent payment system, check out the Vivid.com system. FYI - it's NSFW - Vivid is one (if not the) of the largest companies in adult entertainment. But seriously -- their payment system is intelligent. They detect your browser language (not from your IP address, which is completely idiotic [can we say "Google"?]) and then choose a default currency for you based on your IP address (which is the most logical as there is no other way to do that). Got to hand it to pron... they understand that getting money is better than not getting money -- something that is sorely missed in the rest of the online ecommerce world. :(
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I have only ever used steam for football manager and it seems to work well enough on that, but it does have some glitches which are rather frustrating at times. But then what doesn't?
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To paraphrase a quote from the article for my own purposes:
{I} want a simpler, more unified experience. The verdict is in: {I} like using Steam. Why? Cause it's easy, it's lightweight, and it can work on multiple platforms. PC is an incredibly broad term, with just about everyone owning and operating a personal computing device of some sort.
Also, I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.
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To paraphrase a quote from the article for my own purposes:
{I} want a simpler, more unified experience. The verdict is in: {I} like using Steam. Why? Cause it's easy, it's lightweight, and it can work on multiple platforms. PC is an incredibly broad term, with just about everyone owning and operating a personal computing device of some sort.
Also, I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.
-wraith808
+1
It's a compelling argument.
I buy from one web site fairly regularly (SnowCovered.com (http://www.SnowCovered.com/)). They keep a record of all my purchases and I can go back and download any of them at any time.
Doesn't sound impressive until I say that I have purchases dating back to 2004 that I can download...
How many sites keep records and downloads that long? Most won't let you download again after 24 hours or 30 days (and some inbetween as well). Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)
The simple fact that I can go back and get a download again is a very compelling reason for me, and goes a long way in buying my loyalty.
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Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)
-Renegade
Apparently they finally figured out that this was a bad idea; you can download old purchase now, and retroactively.
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I like not having physical media, and being able to get the game again whenever I want.
-wraith808
It's a great idea except for us poor marginalized creatures with s-l-o-o-w download speeds. It can take about a week to get a game.
One thing I can't understand with Steam is that after buying locally, on a physical medium, Steam still jumps in and prevents play… for days. I must be missing something — probably a brain.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
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Want to download a purchase from iTunes? Ooops... Sorry. Please buy that again. (Wasn't happy when I went back to download a purchase and found that out.)
-Renegade
Apparently they finally figured out that this was a bad idea; you can download old purchase now, and retroactively.
-wraith808
Y'know... Speak of the Devil and who should appear?
Less than an hour ago...
I bought my wife and I each a Pro subscription to Toodle (http://www.toodledo.com), and Due Today (http://www.lakeridgesoftware.com/products/android/DueToday/) for myself on my Android phone, and the Toodle iPhone app (http://www.toodledo.com/info/iphone.php) for my wife on her iPhone. Well, while signing in, she asks me to buy her Bejeweled Blitz 2, which I'd bought for her before, but we deleted it because it is just so damn addictive... (Kind of like the many TD games that mouser tortures me with! :P [ I've lost entire DAYS because of those posts... Not proud of that... :( ] )
So I buy the game 'again', and lo and behold... Her iPhone tells me that I've bought it before, and that I can get it for free...
SHOCK~! :o
Bewilderment... :huh:
WTF?
Has Apple realized that (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/cenzor.gif)ing customers in the (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/cenzor.gif) isn't acceptable behaviour?
Stunned... Just stunned...
I have yet to try this on my Mac, but we'll see. Will they charge me again? Dunno. (Need to get "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" back!)
That they did it retroactively is simply unbelievable.
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I'm not much of a gamer (more interested in flight or submarine sims) so my feelings may not be typical. But I vastly prefer slapping in a DVD to going online to play something. Don't really know why.
I have a Steam account with (a few) very fine games in it. But for some reason I have this weird reluctance to use it. Same goes for my Second Life and Ultima Online accounts.
Something about the logging in is what does it. Maybe it's because I spend my days...and nights...and weekends...and friggin' holidays(!) logged onto one network or another. Feels too much like work or something. (Or maybe it's just my natural reluctance to trust anything on a server I don't have complete control of. Occupational hazard when you do what I do for a living...)
On the other hand I often have to resist the temptation to fire up MS Flight Simulator or one of the Harpoon series disks. And I'll still boot up my aging copy of Big Sid's AlphaCenturi on that little junk laptop I keep just for that.
I guess I'm one of those people who is willing to pay whatever the asking price for media in order to not have to deal with ongoing billing arrangements, network issues, server hassles, slow downloads, and all the little business and political games that (lately) seem to go with playing something online.
It's one thing if you want to do a multiplayer game. But I'll still take a lan party over a web connection if I want to do that - even if it's me that usually gets stuck buying the pizza. Hmm...Odd how everybody always seems to be 'magically' broke whenever I'm in the mood for something with green peppers on it! Must be the ghost of the Colossal Cave Pirate character ("har-har!") that's responsible.
So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?
:)
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One thing I can't understand with Steam is that after buying locally, on a physical medium, Steam still jumps in and prevents play… for days. I must be missing something — probably a brain.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
-cranioscopical
I have no idea of what you refer to. I've never been prevented from playing anything for any amount of time, let alone days. Well, I was in the beginning of Steam. But now with offline mode, unless it's a game that requires online connectivity, no.
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Steam pisses me off for one simple reason...
I have a few single player OFFLINE games on steam, BUT if I happen to lose internet without switching to offline mode...can I play them...can I f*#$
Please make sure you have an active internet connection before switching to offline mode
I HAVE NO INTERNET...THIS IS WHY I NEED TO GO INTO OFFLINE MODE...IF I HAD INTERNET, I WOULD BE PLAYING IN ONLINE MODE OTHERWISE YOU STUPID FU$*#NG THING
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^ Ummm... have you tried this recently? All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode. They fixed that a long time ago.
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^ Ummm... have you tried this recently? All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode. They fixed that a long time ago.
-wraith808
Tried it yesterday lol, It refused point blank to go into offline mode, which means I cant even play Supreme Commander 2 in offline mode :(
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So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?
-40hz
I have a problem with incompetence. Which is rampant.
But it's not always a programming issue. It's usually either an architecture issue or a management issue.
Steam blows. Not because Steam itself is sucky, but because the way they manage the business side is sucky. Well, if my money isn't good enough for you, then f#$% you.
My primary problems with online gaming are the games going offline for "maintenance" for long periods. I can understand a few minutes, but many hours? No. Not acceptable. That's the time that I'm looking to play, and I don't play much. It happens too often. I don't give a s%+ about their maintenance problems. I care about chilling out and playing a game to relax whenever I damn well feel like it. And when I'm paying for it, I seriously give a s*&^.
Then there are the updates... every time I try to play do I really need to download 300 MB or whatever? Jeez... Like WTF? I really don't want to wait an hour or whatever to play a game. I want it NOW!
Look at it this way... I don't need to wait an hour every time I want to start Adobe Illustrator or MS Word or Firefox... Why should I need to piss away an hour (or whatever) to start a game?!?!?!?! It's f*&%ing nuts!
It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
I really like the game, but... It pisses me off. (MtGO)
Basically, I just like it when the game WORKS.
As for the offline mode thing... yeah... just nutty.
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^ Ummm... have you tried this recently? All you have to do is restart, and it will ask you to go to offline mode. They fixed that a long time ago.
-wraith808
Tried it yesterday lol, It refused point blank to go into offline mode, which means I cant even play Supreme Commander 2 in offline mode :(
-Stephen66515
Did you quit steam then restart? That's when it asks you if you want to go into offline mode? You can't just start the game, you have to restart steam in my experience.
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So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?-40hz
I enjoy gaming over the web because I don't have visitors very often and I don't have multiple computers to play the games I want to play.
I do not (usually) enjoy gaming over the web with strangers, especially competitively. I prefer cooperation or at least I prefer to know some/most of the people I'm playing with, even if I don't know them "IRL" but just as online friends/acquaintances.
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So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?-40hz
I enjoy gaming over the web because I don't have visitors very often and I don't have multiple computers to play the games I want to play.
I do not (usually) enjoy gaming over the web with strangers, especially competitively. I prefer cooperation or at least I prefer to know some/most of the people I'm playing with, even if I don't know them "IRL" but just as online friends/acquaintances.
-Deozaan
This. Though even though I don't game with strangers, I don't begrudge anyone that does, nor think that its a mistake.
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Haven't had any issues with Steam yet but one online gaming store I love is GOG (http://www.gog.com). They have classic games for short money, no DRM (awesome!) and they tweak the games to run on current systems. Once you buy it, you own it-you can download as many times as you want and don't have to be online to play. Very clean and simple. And they include cool stuff like soundtracks , wallpapers, avatars, etc.
Nice business model, wish there were more like them. Pretty lively community too :P
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So is it just me, or do other people have as big a hangup about gaming over the web (and generally consider the whole thing a mistake) as I do?
-40hz
I am with you 100% on this. The only difference is I know why I like the media and it goes back to (essentially) what Renegade is getting at. I already installed it, now let me play it. I don't want to be forced to connect so you can check that I have a license, I don't care if you want to install updates - maybe I don't, and most of all I don't want to have to connect so you can remove it for me (okay, so this hasn't happened anywhere I know of, but that whole ebook thing with Amazon - it has me more than a little rattled on buying anything digital only. If I pay for the media and you go bankrupt, or decide you don't want it out there, or whatever; I still have what I bought).
To me, the biggest advantage to online gaming is the streamlining of multiplayer. I don't play multiplayer for the same reasons listed above (well maybe occasionally on my own LAN, but that is different anyway). Why should I bother with connecting to anything? Lastly, what happens if I want to game disconnected (as I normally do?) Some let you, some don't; but all programs that you truly load from local media do? NOTE: I say "truly" so readers don't try to tell me about those where you load setup files that still require a connection to the internet to download and install the rest of the files....That isn't truly a local media load.
EDIT: There is one exception I have to this though - If I can download a full install onto my own media and still use it independent of the seller's site (or internet connection after the download/install for that matter), then I don't have a problem with that - it is only with these sites that try to get you to use them AS YOUR MEDIA that scares the hell out of me.
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Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...
- Oshyan
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Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...
-JavaJones
There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it. That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it. That's the only thing that they learn from. And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.
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Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...
-JavaJones
There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it. That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it. That's the only thing that they learn from. And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.
-wraith808
They removed it, but they're bringing it back again for new games. Ubisoft says always-on DRM is 'a success,' fans are confused (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/30/ubisoft-says-always-on-drm-is-a-success-fans-are-confused/).
Ubisoft said it has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection, and from that point of view the requirement is a success," speaking with PC Gamer.
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Sad thing is if you're a gamer, you're likely going to end up with the requirement to be online to game (or at least *have* an Internet connection for activation) whether you're on Steam or not. See recent Ubisoft games for example...
-JavaJones
There was enough of an outcry against this practice that they backed away from it. That's the key thing- if it hurts the bottom line, they won't do it. That's the only thing that they learn from. And a large enough bloc has to have the willingness to do so.
-wraith808
They removed it, but they're bringing it back again for new games. Ubisoft says always-on DRM is 'a success,' fans are confused (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/30/ubisoft-says-always-on-drm-is-a-success-fans-are-confused/).
Ubisoft said it has seen "a clear reduction in piracy of our titles which required a persistent online connection, and from that point of view the requirement is a success," speaking with PC Gamer.
-Deozaan
Im sorry, but 'Always-on' DRM is going to punish those who want to play the game, but may be having internet problems. Pirates are not going to simply give up and buy the game instead, they will just look for something else, or wait for someone to figure out how to break that DRM, and then those who have lost internet connection for ANY reason will simply aquire a cracked version to play offline.
I have several games in my collection that I did not realise had this stupid DRM crap in it, so while I was in the process of moving my ISP services to my new property, I was obviously without internet for awhile. During that time I would have LOVED to be able to load up said games to play them, but low and behold, I got the stupid "Please make sure your connected to the internet and try again" messages! - wtf, those games are OFFLINE ONLY, I PAID FOR THEM...LET ME PLAY THEM!
Buyers can and will become pirates, but pirates will rarely ever become buyers. Game companies simply do not understand this fact. They say piracy harms developers, but in my view i would rather reward those who purchase, but in the same respect, be thankful of those who USE it. I have pirated several things for several different reasons (usually lack of money to try out big software titles that would otherwise cost thousands to play with). The difference is though, if I could afford, I would have bought them instead!
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Buyers can and will become pirates, but pirates will rarely ever become buyers. Game companies simply do not understand this fact.
-Stephen66515
I think that's one of the most insightful comments ever made about the real problem with DRM.
(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/5Large/7877.gif) Well said Stephen! (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/5Large/7877.gif)
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Agreed +1
And one of the comments from that post:
cracked versions of the constant drm and closed off games alike tend ot actualy be better in the performance seciton compared to drm filled games!! wtf arghh!
This is truly the WTF moment about the DRM. :huh:
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Parallel conversation on G+ brought up an interesting podcast link
http://castroller.com/Podcasts/ArmingTheDonkeys/1080668-The%20lowdown%20on%20music%20piracy%20Debu%20Purohit,%20Duke%20University
From what I understood of the study from the podcast, the researcher has concluded that DRM is removed, then (a) many pirates will buy rather than pirate, and (b) the price of the non-digital formats will reduce in price, and (c) the decline in the sale of non-digital formats will subsequently reverse, and they will sell more of the non-digital formats.
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My experience with Steam has been mixed.
It started with Civ5. I bought the media in a store and eagerly installed it only to find I had to connect to the 'tubes for some reason.
In my case, I live in a rural area and at the time had no internet options. So I had to hump my computer into town, to a friends place, just so that I could validate the game or whatever the frack it is that made the online connection necessary.
Now that I have an internet connection, albeit I might as well not it's so crappy, it's less of an issue, but to be frank I play in "offline mode" because the game loads about 300-500% faster (I haven't really clocked this but usually I had time to take a piss and make a cup of tea before the game was ready to play. The first time I went offline, I was getting up to go for the piss and the game was suddenly ready to play!) Further, it will take me 6-10 hours to download today's average sized game. Bite my ass - I could drive to another province to buy the game and come back, install and start playing in less friggin time.
On the plus side of the equation, I have been able to track down some older games I was never able to purchase when they were on the store shelf, and are now imposszible to find in a used bin. There are also many many sales and if you missed it this time, if you're pateint you'll see it come around again in the rotation.
Overall though, I am not happy with the connect to the net requirement, just to validate a license which I just purchased and entered by hand into the damned game. If that wasn't enough, why did you jerks make me enter the thing in the first place?
As for the wide variety of games available from Steam, well yeah there are many. But frankly about half of them are the kind of bullshit you find on Facebook. Yuck! Quantity does not equal quality.
As for Steam as a "social media hub" it's slow, and incredibly badly designed. Just try for the first time, to send an IM to a friend to invite them. Frustrating as hell to navigate the moronically unintuitive interface - more frustrating as I'm already bald and have no more fucking hair to pull out.
Apologies for the rant and language, maybe that's the ultimate review of Steam, all on it's own.
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So, Steam experts...
Computer A has game C with 300 hours of game play.
Computer B has the same game C but with only 5 hours of game play.
Both machines use the same Steam account/user/login
Can I use the Steam interface to back up a game that is installed on computer A and then use the Steam interface to restore that same game to computer B?
The backup and restore would be to/from an external drive.
I want computer B to end up with game C and 300 hours of game play, the same as computer A.
If so, are there any pitfalls to avoid?
Thanks for your advice!
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Well, yes, you can, but the Steam backup function just copies game files, not any configuration files, savegame files or game modifications the game might have on computer A.
There are a few solutions to this. The fastest one would be replacing your savegame on computer B by the one on computer A, but this requires you to locate the savegame files, which it's not always an easy task. Another option would be replacing the game installation on computer B with the one on computer A. This is done by copying the game subfolder "steamapps\common\<name of game>" within Windows from computer A and dropping it on the Steam installation on computer B. This must be done when Steam is not running.
To make sure you get the game you are playing in computer A, it would be a good idea to move the game installation on computer B elsewhere on the filesystem outside the Steam main directory and delete it was once you have moved the game from one computer to another successfully. This way you ensure there's no unnecessary files lying around from the former installation, plus you have a backup copy to go back in case things go awry.
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Computer A has game C with 300 hours of game play.
Computer B has the same game C but with only 5 hours of game play.
-cranioscopical
is Computer B off-line when game C is played? in that case, you'd have to go online for the stats to 'catch up'. as Lashiec mentioned Steam backup function copies only the core game, the rest are to be copied manually (such as the save games). hopefully no registry entries are involved..
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Thanks Lashiec and lanux128.
I'll digest that now and get it wrong later ;)
Much appreciated!
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I kind of like more the aproach of GOG.com.
You:
- Buy the game.
- Download it.
- Install without any DRM crap.
- Play
Sure, some users will pirate it on the internet, but then again, the same will happen with the DRM ones. The irony is that the pirated version is most likely to run fine while the DRM one might work or not. That includes steam, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
I guess the different between GOG.COM and steam is that steam asumes that the user is a thief, while gog.com does not make that assumption. I don't know you, but I make a point of not buying from someone that treats me like a thief.
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steam asumes that the user is a thief-rxantos
Huh? :huh:
In what way(s) does Steam assume the user is a thief?
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steam asumes that the user is a thief-rxantos
Huh? :huh:
In what way(s) does Steam assume the user is a thief?
-Deozaan
Let's see...
* I have to enter an email verification code at least twice a week, if not more often because I use two computers and multiple browsers. Sometimes these emails take a while to arrive and in between... no play
* I cannot run steam on two machines at once. Even though I have 100 games on Steam. Connecting on one immediately closes the other. I cannot download on one machine while playing on another, even though this is a common scenario since Steam forces all games on the same 1 partition and most of us have non infinite partitions...
* Offline mode doesn't really work reliably. I am currently staying regularly in a little hotel without room internet access and most of the time Steam finds a reason or another... some bit of information missing which makes it doubt I have used steam on the machine before. Perhaps one time out of 3 I can play when offline. Assumption: unless it can validate everything, I am not allowed to play my games
If I let my husband play one of my 100 games, I am a steam-criminal. I am supposed to buy a separate copy of each game... Sorry Steam but the natural unit of a game played is the household. Now we have always bought two copies of games we both wanted to play a lot, or play online. (we have 2 copies of all Half Life games, Portal, Portal 2, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan, Din's Curse, Defense Grid etc. etc.) but there are many games which we might just dabble in and it should be possible to NOT have to buy two copies...
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Sorry Steam but the natural unit of a game played is the household. Now we have always bought two copies of games we both wanted to play a lot, or play online. (we have 2 copies of all Half Life games, Portal, Portal 2, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan, Din's Curse, Defense Grid etc. etc.) but there are many games which we might just dabble in and it should be possible to NOT have to buy two copies...
-iphigenie
I love this quote as there are so many truths to it in just 2 sentences.
Unfortunately, Steam, and many companies like them, still seem to believe that the only gamers in a household are the 12-25 year old males. Couple that with only 2.4 kids/household (in the US) and that makes 1 or less in that market per household on average. And we ALL know that the US is representative of the world market, right?
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steam asumes that the user is a thief-rxantos
Huh? :huh:
In what way(s) does Steam assume the user is a thief?
-Deozaan
Let's see...
* I have to enter an email verification code at least twice a week, if not more often because I use two computers and multiple browsers. Sometimes these emails take a while to arrive and in between... no play
-iphigenie
This is for security. You can turn this off in your settings.
* I cannot run steam on two machines at once. Even though I have 100 games on Steam. Connecting on one immediately closes the other. I cannot download on one machine while playing on another, even though this is a common scenario since Steam forces all games on the same 1 partition and most of us have non infinite partitions...
-iphigenie
An annoyance that I run across to be sure. But how is this so different than when we had physical media? And how is this assuming you are a criminal?
* Offline mode doesn't really work reliably. I am currently staying regularly in a little hotel without room internet access and most of the time Steam finds a reason or another... some bit of information missing which makes it doubt I have used steam on the machine before. Perhaps one time out of 3 I can play when offline. Assumption: unless it can validate everything, I am not allowed to play my games
-iphigenie
I can't really comment, other than to say that the statement should be that it doesn't work reliably for you. I use it quite a bit on my netbook and on my other computer previously mentioned. Both of them stay in offline mode, and both of them have never had a problem with playing any game in offline mode- including MMOs.
If I let my husband play one of my 100 games, I am a steam-criminal. I am supposed to buy a separate copy of each game... Sorry Steam but the natural unit of a game played is the household. Now we have always bought two copies of games we both wanted to play a lot, or play online. (we have 2 copies of all Half Life games, Portal, Portal 2, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan, Din's Curse, Defense Grid etc. etc.) but there are many games which we might just dabble in and it should be possible to NOT have to buy two copies...
-iphigenie
Not a Steam criminal- it just doesn't work in the way that we'd ideally like it to work. But it's understandable when compared against the limitations of physical media that it would be this way. I don't like it- but I don't see where the assuming I am a criminal comes in. Their business model is not as I would like it (and this is the reason that they have a lot of games that GoG doesn't), but it is what it is.
At the end of the day GoG has chosen to limit their catalog by sticking to their guns on DRM, and I do appreciate it, especially for the unique offerings in its catalog. But I also like the convenience of downloading and firing up Deus Ex on launch day, and not having to use media for it, so Steam offers me something other than the assumption that I'm a criminal, IMO.
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Wraith, I think in some of your responses you are assuming she is trying to run the same game in multiple places at the same time (hence your references to physical media). However, I don't read that into it at all, and as long as they are not the same game, there is a HUGE difference in capabilities there. Running two copies at the same time may be a no-no, but it shouldn't stop you from installing it on one machine while playing a different game on another machine, just because it is the same account.
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Running two copies at the same time may be a no-no, but it shouldn't stop you from installing it on one machine while playing a different game on another machine, just because it is the same account.-steeladept
It doesn't stop you from doing that. Put one in offline mode while you install the game on the other machine.
* I have to enter an email verification code at least twice a week, if not more often because I use two computers and multiple browsers. Sometimes these emails take a while to arrive and in between... no play
-iphigenie
This is for security. You can turn this off in your settings.
-wraith808
I don't think you can turn this off. I've looked and I couldn't find how. It's an annoyance I'd like to disable. That said, I only have to enter the verification code once per browser per computer. The only reason I can see why you would have to do this so often is if you are clearing your cache/cookies or maybe if you're constantly changing your IP address?
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Thanks for that info Deo, I don't use Steam so I didn't know one way or the other, but that is what I read from the original post I referenced.
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Wraith, I think in some of your responses you are assuming she is trying to run the same game in multiple places at the same time (hence your references to physical media). However, I don't read that into it at all, and as long as they are not the same game, there is a HUGE difference in capabilities there. Running two copies at the same time may be a no-no, but it shouldn't stop you from installing it on one machine while playing a different game on another machine, just because it is the same account.
-steeladept
Though Deo answered, I just wanted to say that I do that exact same thing, i.e. install on more than one computer. I have it on my tablet, both of my gaming pcs, and am getting ready to install it on my work laptop. Only one can be connected at a time, but I haven't brought my backup gaming pc nor my tablet online in forever, and I play on them pretty regularly.
I don't think you can turn this off. I've looked and I couldn't find how. It's an annoyance I'd like to disable. That said, I only have to enter the verification code once per browser per computer. The only reason I can see why you would have to do this so often is if you are clearing your cache/cookies or maybe if you're constantly changing your IP address?
-Deozaan
I was talking from experience, not speculatively. I have mine on (I have gotten a bit paranoid about my gaming accounts as of late and have authenticators on everything that will take it now), but it used to be that I hated it. Especially since it seems to activate a lot more if you use your account in a lot of different places.
From within Steam. View -> Settings will bring up this dialog.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Click the button the arrow is pointing to, and the following dialog will appear.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Click the radio button. Then click next and follow the prompts.
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Yay! Thanks wraith! :D
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* I cannot run steam on two machines at once. Even though I have 100 games on Steam. Connecting on one immediately closes the other. I cannot download on one machine while playing on another, even though this is a common scenario since Steam forces all games on the same 1 partition and most of us have non infinite partitions...
-iphigenie
An annoyance that I run across to be sure. But how is this so different than when we had physical media? And how is this assuming you are a criminal?
-wraith808
Well I have 100+ games in Steam, so I might be downloading for one of them, playing on another. Why is this not possible? Because Steam assumes that 2 computers = piracy
With physical media I of course could be running 10 different games on 10 different machines if it so struck me. I also could be playing Game 22 on my PC while my husband plays game 47 on his PC and perhaps a friend visiting or a nephew could be having a go at Plants versus Zombies. With Steam doing that could result in account suppression and losing all the games! I should buy an additional copy of the game for my nephew before he can play it - or make my nephew register (he's probably too young...) and send him a guest pass (if the game allows)
I have no problems with the requirement that I cannot play the same game on 2 computers in two locations at the same time, especially in multiplayer/online play. My husband and I routinely bought 2 copies of any game that clicked with both of us, even if the game didn't enforce it (Call it "doing our bit so the developer has a chance to do more great stuff". Doesn't work, though, publishers are stupid.)
But I should be able to play two different games in 2 different locations while logged in. Especially when I have bought 100. And especially when the games cost more than the retail version.
Heck, just launching raptr forgetting I have steam chat enabled can shut down the 12Gb download running on my home computer. How annoying!
I can't really comment, other than to say that the statement should be that it doesn't work reliably for you. I use it quite a bit on my netbook and on my other computer previously mentioned. Both of them stay in offline mode, and both of them have never had a problem with playing any game in offline mode- including MMOs.
-wraith808
Glad to know it does work - I will keep trying. The same things that causes the validation email reoccurrence must wipe whatever file Steam checks when starting a game or steam in offline mode - but since Steam won't say what files I need to protect, I cannot do much about it
The other one that &%ç me is that I can run steam shortly before I leave work, just to make sure all is ok, go offline. Then at the hotel I try to start a game and get "steam detected that there is a client update available, you must update before you can play". Of course by then I am offline... That's just mean :'(
If I let my husband play one of my 100 games, I am a steam-criminal. I am supposed to buy a separate copy of each game... Sorry Steam but the natural unit of a game played is the household. Now we have always bought two copies of games we both wanted to play a lot, or play online. (we have 2 copies of all Half Life games, Portal, Portal 2, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan, Din's Curse, Defense Grid etc. etc.) but there are many games which we might just dabble in and it should be possible to NOT have to buy two copies...
-iphigenie
Not a Steam criminal- it just doesn't work in the way that we'd ideally like it to work. But it's understandable when compared against the limitations of physical media that it would be this way. I don't like it- but I don't see where the assuming I am a criminal comes in. Their business model is not as I would like it (and this is the reason that they have a lot of games that GoG doesn't), but it is what it is.
At the end of the day GoG has chosen to limit their catalog by sticking to their guns on DRM, and I do appreciate it, especially for the unique offerings in its catalog. But I also like the convenience of downloading and firing up Deus Ex on launch day, and not having to use media for it, so Steam offers me something other than the assumption that I'm a criminal, IMO.
-wraith808
There's not just gog though. There's Impulse and Gamersgate and D2D and greenmangaming and the eurogamer store and many others. GG and Impulse are able to sell most of the games Steam sells without forcing this limit on the client (well Impulse is changing and focusing on North America only, so it leaves Gamersgate). In many cases they have the games before Steam does, especially many of the indie and smaller titles.
As for physical media, very clearly my husband could play Deus Ex while I play Section 8 Prejudice - and we could swap later - without buying two copies. Only if we like the game enough that we want to play it at the same time or both online do we need to buy two copies..
Don't get me wrong, I love digital distribution, I just think that Steam has some short sighted "single user" ideas that aren't adapted to the reality of gaming, and that makes a game on Steam less valuable than a physical game or a game in another download service. I'll explore in another reply what would make sense :)
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Sorry Steam but the natural unit of a game played is the household. Now we have always bought two copies of games we both wanted to play a lot, or play online. (we have 2 copies of all Half Life games, Portal, Portal 2, Dungeon Keeper, Kohan, Din's Curse, Defense Grid etc. etc.) but there are many games which we might just dabble in and it should be possible to NOT have to buy two copies...
-iphigenie
I love this quote as there are so many truths to it in just 2 sentences.
Unfortunately, Steam, and many companies like them, still seem to believe that the only gamers in a household are the 12-25 year old males. Couple that with only 2.4 kids/household (in the US) and that makes 1 or less in that market per household on average. And we ALL know that the US is representative of the world market, right?
-steeladept
It is incredibly short sighted and what is annoying is that Steam is announcing that it is looking into trade-ins (another teen focused feature) before it is looking into couple/household sharing or the issues people with large number of games face.
The average gamer age is above 25 (that is the average!) and the gender balance is about 45/55 many places. It is not uncommon to see couples in their 20s or 30s where both play games, and families with 2 or 3 generations of gamers...
The focus on teens is not uncommon in the US since they have high disposable income, and it might work for the movie theatre industry because teens need to hang out the way other ages don't. I think it hurts the games industry - and it is sad that so many games websites (and steam) focus on an adolescent image of gaming
Let's look into "perfect steam":
- allows me to designate people as "in my household" so they can play my games but under their user name (for achievements and chat while they play)
- totally happy to have to jump through some hoops for this, at the point of account "tie-in" and approving computers who can be used
- also ok to have some sort of limit above which one must explain via support that indeed one has an 8 people household..
- games have to be installed while logged in on owner's account, but can then be played by a tied-in user
- doesnt allow the same game to be played in multiple locations at the same time unless we have two licenses for the game. but instead of disconnecting the person already playing, it might prompt the person trying to play that they might want to buy another license
- can give a person guest access to games on a designated registered computer
- allows for children accounts with some form of parental safety
This would then mean you can have a game shared in a household the way a physical/console game might be, without losing the advantage of the steam social graph.
And on another note, further features of "perfect steam":
- allows installing on multiple partition
- tells us where the saved games/user settings are on each game so we can back them up (or, better yet, comes with a built in backup option for the saved games and configs. the normal backup does not back these up, just the game files)
- allows us to show/mark which games we already own. I don't mean that we then can download them in Steam, but just that our friends know we have them and don't gift them again to us...
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Well I have 100+ games in Steam, so I might be downloading for one of them, playing on another. Why is this not possible?
-iphigenie
It is. If one is in offline mode and you're playing, and the other is connected and you're downloading, doesn't that solve the problem? I do it all the time. Like I said, one of my gaming machines is never connected; however, I do play on it. In a lot of cases, it's because my other machine is downloading something, and I don't want to play on it while it's downloading. And truthfully, I prefer the steam way of doing things (i.e. consolidation) even if it doesn't lend itself to playing multiple copies. That's why I buy from them whenever possible, because I don't have multiple packages/launchers like GG or D2D. And it does seem that on quite a few games, when compared to these other services, the DRM that's on the individual packages on GG/D2D isn't present on Steam.
Again, I'm not saying that some of the features that you ask for might not be nice to have. But I do like a lot about how they are doing things now, including:
- how everything is consolidated under one platform
- the fact that having its own DRM system makes many that would include other DRM change their mind
- the fact that there is even an offline mode that makes working around some of the limitations easier
- the fact that they've even added the social media features. no other platform has them integrated to the degree that steam does
Are there things that can be improved? Yes. But to ignore the advantages given thus far, especially as its evolving undercut the efforts that have been made, that I for one appreciate.
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GG and Impulse are able to sell most of the games Steam sells without forcing this limit on the client (well Impulse is changing and focusing on North America only, so it leaves Gamersgate). In many cases they have the games before Steam does, especially many of the indie and smaller titles.
-iphigenie
I just had the strangest experience with GG... though I like it, I suspect you won't. I bought Darksiders on sale for $4.99 from GG. Then I downloaded their installer, and it downloaded all 13.1 GB of the installer, and started it up. I ran the installer, and was a bit perturbed when it didn't ask me where. But then at the end, I realized why. Steam started, and asked me for my activation code. I entered it, then steam took over, and installed Darksiders into Steam from the files that GG had downloaded.
Giga-what?
I did a double take at that... and I wonder what that means... but it's truly installed in my Steam account.
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GamersGate has been selling games that use Steamworks for quite a while, thus requiring the use of Steam for installation, authentication, etc. Such requirement is listed on the game's page in the DRM section. If it reads "Requires a 3rd party download and account", most likely it's referring to Steam. Valve isn't taking over GamersGate or anything like that, it wouldn't make much sense either.
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GamersGate has been selling games that use Steamworks for quite a while, thus requiring the use of Steam for installation, authentication, etc. Such requirement is listed on the game's page in the DRM section. If it reads "Requires a 3rd party download and account", most likely it's referring to Steam. Valve isn't taking over GamersGate or anything like that, it wouldn't make much sense either.
-Lashiec
Darksiders doesn't use Steamworks though. It uses GFWL (or whatever it's called today). I see that they changed to use Steamworks- no wonder I couldn't authenticate with my GFWL account. I was looking forward to getting achievements... :(
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Reading through, it seems like Steam is more like a disease than a cure. Apparently, it creates more problems than it solves. Am I reading the above wrong?
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Reading through, it seems like Steam is more like a disease than a cure. Apparently, it creates more problems than it solves. Am I reading the above wrong?
-Renegade
I don't think it creates more problems than it solves, but then again, other people have other opinions.
I think that the ideal solution would be a third party platform that you register your purchases with, no matter where you get them from. But that will never happen, though it seems that steamworks is making that happen for some games. As long as you can (1) re-download/re-install your purchases (2) play them offline and (3) there is competition on pricing, I'm happy. :)
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Years ago if there was a PC game I thought I might want but didn't know if it was worth (or I didn't have) the $50, I'm not proud to admit it, but I would likely pirate it.
These days I just wait for the inevitable Steam sale and buy it when the price is right for me. I've even bought games on Steam that I pirated and played years ago and don't really play anymore, but I bought them anyway because I loved them and the price was right for me. I don't even know how many games I've bought for the Nth time (where N > 1) just because it suddenly became available on Steam and at a great price, too.
I really like Steam. Yes it's true that sometimes I get really mad at Steam (http://blog.deozaan.com/2011/06/29/steaming-mad-at-steam/) because there are some things they do that can be absolutely infuriating. Steam is not perfect and there are many use-cases that I don't have to deal with (such as not being the only gamer in this household) which admittedly would indeed be annoying. But they do so many things right (in my opinion) that it's hard to stay mad at them or not use their service. Steam is just too convenient and the prices are too good. I like it so much that these days I almost don't like buying PC games anymore if they aren't available/redeemable on Steam. And that is, perhaps, another problem in and of itself.
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^ +1 and that is a problem and one I suffer from too. If they do things so well as to get us dependent on them/drive the other digital distribution platforms out of business, then the consumer will suffer as they won't have to offer the deep discounts. I see an example of that I'm the digital book industry.
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Steam is a mixed bag - but my main beef with it is that when I am somewhere with no internet connection I have almost never managed to play my games.
It comes up with the message that gives you the option to start in offline mode, but them almost always I then get a message saying it was impossible to log in or continue offline. This is most of the time due to a pending update that
1) that Steam somehow knows of (from the last time i was online prior to closing steam a few hours before)
2) but that Steam has not suggested installation when i was online
3) Steam is programmed that it *has* to install any update before it lets me do anything further
4) As I am offline it cannot install it so errors and exits
Result: if I am offline but steam thinks/knows it has an update pending (and that is just about every other day lately) then I cannot play any of the 100+ games I have paid and "own".
It infuriates me every time. It should not happen - I should be able to start "old" steam offline and install the update the next time I am online - at least to play a game.
No other online platform does that - and it makes me wish I could move some of my games from Steam to another platform
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Steam is a mixed bag - but my main beef with it is that when I am somewhere with no internet connection I have almost never managed to play my games.
-iphigenie
I've never had this problem. Are you aware that you will be going somewhere and able to start it offline before you go? Not ideal, but I know that works no matter what.
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Another annoyance with Steam - as you point out, wraith - and most other digital distribution platforms: They sell new titles at publisher's RRP. As a matter of fact, on average, digital distribution is turning out more expensive for new books, music or games (and, at first glance, movies if you buy them but I havent really looked). Somehow competition is not happening.
For example, a month on, Skyrim is £34.99 on steam and £19.99 boxed on Amazon (which activates on Steam). Even at launch there was a £5 difference. How dumb is that? Anno 2070, very recent too, 34.99 on steam, 27.99 on Amazon
It is in part as there is no cost for not selling - no stock paid for, using up space etc. In part because they can. In part because publishers resisted so long getting to online distribution that they got more power over pricing (the big ones. Little ones have steam put their product on sale, without them having any say, and take the rebate out of the publishers' cut, resulting in nearly no income from the sale except for Steam). Laws for online favor the copyright owners, not retailers. Laws on physical distribution tend to favor the retailer.
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Another annoyance with Steam - as you point out, wraith - and most other digital distribution platforms: They sell new titles at publisher's RRP. As a matter of fact, on average, digital distribution is turning out more expensive for new books, music or games (and, at first glance, movies if you buy them but I havent really looked). Somehow competition is not happening.
-iphigenie
Part of that might be because some game publishers don't want Steam directly competing with the retail channels.
Since Steam handles the activation anyway, it's not really a big revenue loss for them. And it protects places like Amazon and BestBuy, who might otherwise refuse to carry the titles if Steam could regularly undercut them.
The last thing I also think any of the game publishers want is to get locked into one electronic distribution channel. Because once that happens, the distributor can dictate terms to the publishers. You've already seen that happen with music sales through Apple and book sales through Amazon.
So by requiring somebody like Steam to sell at MSRP, it avoids direct competition with the retailers. And by keeping the retailers in the loop, it keeps Steam from getting too powerful.
It's the corporate version of 'win-win' strategy: Everybody in the food chain wins - with the possible exception of the victim end-customer.
But when it comes to DRM, the customer wasn't really a part of any consideration anyway, so no blame! ;)
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It infuriates me every time. It should not happen - I should be able to start "old" steam offline and install the update the next time I am online - at least to play a game.-iphigenie
I agree with you on this one, it really is just bad programming on the part of Steam/Valve.
Besides setting every game to not auto-update, (to lessen any chance of Steam not being able to go into Offline mode when there's no connection), have you tried what this post (http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/19234/is-there-any-way-to-start-steam-in-offline-mode-without-logging-in-first) suggests ?
Edit: I can confirm that creating/editing steam.cfg (in the same directory as the steam executable) with the following lines works:
BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable
ForceOfflineMode=enable
Here it appeared to force Steam to open the 'Could not connect...Start in Offline mode' dialog.
When the two lines aren't there, Steam connects straight through to the servers.
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4wd, you're a star, I'll check these configs - thanks for finding them for me. I must admit that because this happens when I am offline I haven't done much research at workarounds :)
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4wd, you're a star, I'll check these configs - thanks for finding them for me. I must admit that because this happens when I am offline I haven't done much research at workarounds :)-iphigenie
I'm not sure whether it will help you get around the Steam client wanting to update before doing anything but it can't hurt to try.