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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: xtabber on February 09, 2011, 02:13 PM

Title: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on February 09, 2011, 02:13 PM

It looks like there will soon be a number of serious Android-based challengers to the iPad from Motorola, Toshiba, LG, HTC and most likely others.

The Motorola Xoom (http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/US-EN/XOOM/index.html) should be available from Verizon by the end of this month and looks really good, except for the reported price: $800 not including a mandatory overpriced Verizon data plan.

The Toshiba Tablet (http://androidheadlines.com/2011/02/toshiba-tablet-goes-live.html) looks even better, but no pricing has yet been announced.

Unless the iPad 2 due this year improves substantially on the existing screen (9.7", 1024x768), the new Android devices look to be a better choice for reading ebooks, with 10.1", 1280x800 displays.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on February 09, 2011, 03:39 PM

Right now I'm saving my pennies for a new desktop machine. So even though I'm not in the market to buy one soon, I'm still really excited to see what these new Android tablets will have to offer.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 09, 2011, 04:11 PM

I've been rather obsessively following tablet development - I wouldn't get too bent out of shape before Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) comes out. The 1.x and 2.x releases are SMARTPHONE OS's, so on tablets they're not optimal.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on February 09, 2011, 04:32 PM

Both the Motorola Xoom and the Toshiba Tablet run Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) according to their web sites.  Since the Xoom has been announced by Verizon for delivery before the end of this month, it would seem that Honeycomb is nearly ready to go.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on February 09, 2011, 06:47 PM

And then, of course, there are the losers who expect to compete with the first iteration of the iPad long after it has been superseded by something else, such as this: http://www.palm.com/us/products/pads/touchpad/index.html that came in the (e)mail a few hours ago.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 09, 2011, 11:16 PM

Both the Motorola Xoom and the Toshiba Tablet run Android 3.0 (Honeycomb) according to their web sites.  Since the Xoom has been announced by Verizon for delivery before the end of this month, it would seem that Honeycomb is nearly ready to go.

-xtabber (February 09, 2011, 04:32 PM)

True, but as you note, neither tablet is actually out yet. I'm REALLY curious to see what Dell and Archos and other tablet makers do when Android 3.0 comes out. I expect Dell will provide FW updates to 3.0 to their exiting line; I expect Archos will cap their Gen8 (Current line) tablets at 2.x and release 3.0 on their Gen8 Gen9 devices in the fall. I WISH they'd update the Archos 5IT to Froyo (or even better Android 3.0!) but I doubt it will ever happen. I love mine running 1.6. My A43IT running 2.21 is decent but falls short of expectations/claims...

EDIT: typo  :-[

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Lutz_ on February 10, 2011, 01:16 AM

The Notion Ink tablet looks pretty tempting to me - usable in bright sunlight for example.
I would really like to get my hands on one of these.
http://www.notionink.com/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/notion-ink-adam-hands-on-preview-video/

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 10, 2011, 11:19 AM

Yes, the Adam is sweet looking on paper, particularly with the Pixel Qi display. However, it's been vapourware for close to a year now and is only now slowly rolling out to lukewarm reviews... here's an example: http://blog.laptopmag.com/notion-ink-adam-early-verdict

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on February 10, 2011, 01:41 PM

I'm REALLY curious to see what Dell and Archos and other tablet makers do when Android 3.0 comes out. I expect Dell will provide FW updates to 3.0 to their exiting line; I expect Archos will cap their Gen8 (Current line) tablets at 2.x and release 3.0 on their Gen8 Gen9 devices in the fall. I WISH they'd update the Archos 5IT to Froyo (or even better Android 3.0!) but I doubt it will ever happen.

-Darwin (February 09, 2011, 11:16 PM)

If my manufacturer won't support the latest version of Android, then I'd just run something like CyanogenMod (http://cyanogenmod.com/) on my tablet. It's what I do for my phone.

Android 2.2 on a phone that "only supports" 1.6. :Thmbsup:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on February 10, 2011, 02:54 PM

There are so many problems with the tablet market right now, and it seems like some of the issues are going away slowly, but they are still largely in tact.  A lot of what I say is going to rub people the wrong way, so I apologize in advance.

First, the companies need to stop selling tablets packaged with cellular service.  It's not a phone, it never will be.  Phones are phones.  Tablets are tablets.  It doesn't matter if it looks the same or not.  My LCD monitor also looks similar to an iphone and a tablet, it doesn't mean I should have to buy cellular service for it.  Yes, that's an absurd argument, but I'm just making a point.  Apple can get away with it because they were the first and they have a HUGE userbase.  Samsung shouldn't do it, Toshiba shouldn't, etc.  And even Apple offered a standalone version right off the bat also.
i don't know if these companies realize the psychological impact of buying something that has a monthly charge associated with it.  Let's say you want to buy a $300 gadget.  That's fine.  Some people will just do it without even a lot of research beforehand if it just grabs their eye.  However, if that thing now comes with a monthly plan for something, it's a totally different animal.  Now they have to think about the $30 monthly charge, if they really need it, do they get the device now and cancel the subscription in a month?  But now that's more work for them to do, and they have to remember to do it, which isn't always the case.  If they forget, now they have to pay more, or pay penalties, etc.  It's a trap.  It's much more comforting to buy something, pay for it, and not have to worry about it after that.  And we know these companies don't make it easy to cancel.  So they need to stop this subscription bullshit.

Now, build quality.  Apple set an amazing standard for build quality with their first generation tablet.  If companies don't rival that quality, good luck.  Now, Apple sucks in other things that the other companies are doing better now.  USB ports, other convenient ports around the device, more flexibility getting data on and off the device.  But in the mass consumer market, those things are less important than the build quality...which leads to first impressions and all that.

The fragmented Android market is really really bad.  Somehow, and I don't know how, these devices need to be able to update to the latest OS's a little more quickly and easily.  Never in my life have I been so aware of multiple versions of an operating system simultaneously.

The other thing to consider in the tablet market when Android and Windows tablets become available: try not to think about it as ipad vs. etc.  Think about it this way; jailbroken ipad vs. etc.  Why?  Because a jailbroken ipad now has the restrictions removed that all of us pc users care about.  Mainly, it comes down to being able to freely move files and folders around.  So a jailbroken ipad is a totally different animal than a regular ipad.  The app market for Apple is huge, so like Windows, you have lots of options for third-party software.  Unlike the Android market, it's not fragmented.  I don't see this lasting forever.  I predict that Google will try to take care of the fragmentation issues, and then there should be more apps to play around with than the itunes apps.  However, there are a few developers that create apps ONLY for jailbroken ipads, which is very cool.  That puts the ipad into the same realm as a Windows pc.  No restrictions.  So the Apple vs PC arguments becomes moot then, and you just choose the most capable device.  What's cool about that is that you can choose the ipad, which will probably be the better device for the time being.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 10, 2011, 04:11 PM

Great points all, superboyac  :Thmbsup:

@ Deozaan - I'm still waiting to see what Arhchos does WRT the A5 and Android 2.x they haven't definitively said that they won't be doing it (though as noted above I'm not holding my breath) so it *might* happen. For now, there's nothing in 2.2 that I miss when switching to 1.6 and I don't need anymore apps (so OS incompatibility with apps in the marketplace isn't an issue, yet...).

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on February 10, 2011, 04:18 PM

I have yet to see Archos hit a homerun with their devices.  They always seem so promising, yet they never quite cross that line of truly awesome.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 10, 2011, 06:58 PM

I have yet to see Archos hit a homerun with their devices.  They always seem so promising, yet they never quite cross that line of truly awesome.

-superboyac (February 10, 2011, 04:18 PM)

Agreed, thought the A5IT is wonderful. I can only imagine that it didn't do better because it only has a 4.8" screen.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on February 10, 2011, 07:28 PM

I have yet to see Archos hit a homerun with their devices.  They always seem so promising, yet they never quite cross that line of truly awesome.

-superboyac (February 10, 2011, 04:18 PM)

The first archos devices were ahead of their time.  But because they were ahead, people didn't fully grasp what the potential was at the time, and they cut deals with the industries to cripple them.  Since then, they've sort of squandered the advantages they did have in devices that never quite reached the levels of those first devices.  I still have one of the first/second gen devices, and it's pretty amazing considering how old it is that it is still quite useful.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on February 11, 2011, 11:47 PM

I have yet to see Archos hit a homerun with their devices.  They always seem so promising, yet they never quite cross that line of truly awesome.

-superboyac (February 10, 2011, 04:18 PM)

The first archos devices were ahead of their time.  But because they were ahead, people didn't fully grasp what the potential was at the time, and they cut deals with the industries to cripple them.  Since then, they've sort of squandered the advantages they did have in devices that never quite reached the levels of those first devices.  I still have one of the first/second gen devices, and it's pretty amazing considering how old it is that it is still quite useful.

-wraith808 (February 10, 2011, 07:28 PM)

That's a sobering thought to have, thanks.  It's interesting to see the history of business successes and failures.  There's a very fine line between the two.  It almost makes you think there's a fine line between the ipod and the Rio player.  A couple of different events here and there, and it might have played out totally different.  On one hand, you want to say that Archos should have just trusted themselves and not capitulated to their eventual partners.  On the other hand, that takes big balls when you have no userbase experience to look at.  That's the risk of a pioneer...it comes down to huevos.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on February 13, 2011, 10:40 AM

I think Rio vs iPod probably boils down to marketing, marketing, marketing and the iPod's wheel. Which indirectly means that it came down to Apple's deep pockets and their position, even then, as being GUI innovators and builders of high quality hardware. They also had a huge Apple fanboy PC userbase to market the iPod to. To make a rather weak comparison, this is like Archos marketing first the Archos 5 Internet Media Tablet (with Archos' own linux based OS on it) in 2008 and the Archos 5 Internet Tablet (Android OS) in 2009. Few people paid the slightest attention. I think that if either device had been marketed as the "iPod Touch GPS" by Apple they would have sold like hot cakes and garnered fabulous reviews. Of course, there are other factors involved: having the capital to produce the things in sufficient numbers to get them onto shelves, initial releases were rather buggy, and zero marketing...

Of course, it didn't hurt that they were flogging aa decent, well reviewed product.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on February 14, 2011, 09:38 PM

It looks like there will be a flood of Android 3.0 tablets using a 10.1" 1280x800 pixel form factor coming to market within the next 6 months or so.  Acer, ASUS, Motorola, Samsung, Toshiba and Viewsonic are the big name brands that have demonstrated working models to date, and there will probably be lots of  smaller players as well.

This form factor provides 30% more screen area than the iPad, but many of these devices also sport features to make them more compelling choices, such as removable flash storage, swappable batteries and HD video output.

The only one that seems to have a price tag as of now is the Motorola Xoom at $800 plus a Verizon contract, which seems ridiculously high to me, but I'd expect more competitive pricing by summer, when there will be many choices.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on February 14, 2011, 10:18 PM

It looks like there will be a flood of Android 3.0 tablets using a 10.1" 1280x800 pixel form factor coming to market within the next 6 months or so.  Acer, ASUS, Motorola, Samsung, Toshiba and Viewsonic are the big name brands that have demonstrated working models to date, and there will probably be lots of  smaller players as well.

This form factor provides 30% more screen area than the iPad, but many of these devices also sport features to make them more compelling choices, such as removable flash storage, swappable batteries and HD video output.

The only one that seems to have a price tag as of now is the Motorola Xoom at $800 plus a Verizon contract, which seems ridiculously high to me, but I'd expect more competitive pricing by summer, when there will be many choices.

-xtabber (February 14, 2011, 09:38 PM)

I'm excited about all of those!

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on March 16, 2011, 06:13 PM

Rumors are circulating that Toshiba, Dell, Acer and HTC will all be shipping 10" Android 3.0 tablets in June, priced between $449 and $549.  ASUS is also expected to bring out a 10" Android 3.0 tablet with a slide out physical keyboard, priced at $400!  If true, there will be some serious alternatives to the iPad by summer.

Also, PCWorld has an article comparing the iPad to the Galaxy Tab and Motorola Xoom: http://www.pcworld.com/article/222147/which_tablet_works_best_apple_ipad_2_vs_motorola_xoom_vs_samsung_galaxy_tab.html#tk.hp_fv . No real surprises, but it reinforces my negative feelings about the Apple iTunes environment, which is the biggest reason I have long avoided Apple music players and handheld products.

The Toshiba tablet seems particularly promising to me because it makes a point of addressing one of the major issues I have with most of the handheld devices out there, lack of connectivity options. In addition to a mini-USB port, WiFi and Blutooth, it has a standard USB port (which one can supposedly use to transfer data from any USB 2.0 device), a full-sized SD card slot, and an HDMI port. It also has a replaceable battery (for "screwdriver-savvy" users, according to Toshiba). I'd guess the question is whether they can keep the weight down with all that built in.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 17, 2011, 08:25 AM

More Android tablets are appearing in bricks and mortar stores around me - of the Android 2.21 variety, so six months old or more - and I have been impressed with the build quality and ease of use. Of course, the price is comparable to the iPad 1 fire prices I'm seeing (16GB Wi-fi only for $400), but still...

This summer/fall should be VERY interesting. Can't wait (note to self: get a job so you can afford some toys this fall!).

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: mahesh2k on March 17, 2011, 09:36 AM

Here 449-549$ tablet has additional cost of 120$ for import duties, 30$ service tax. So basically price comes down to 800$. Converting it into local currency 1$=44R, 800$*44=35200R, Which is equal to cost of laptops of same leading brands.  :P

If i've to purchase tablet then i'll wait for the sketchpad tablet that nudone posted in another thread. :)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Edvard on March 17, 2011, 11:47 AM

First, the companies need to stop selling tablets packaged with cellular service.  It's not a phone, it never will be.  Phones are phones.  Tablets are tablets.

-superboyac (February 10, 2011, 02:54 PM)

I agree, to a point; the reason they do that is mainly for internet capability, so it kinda makes sense.
That said, I STRONGLY feel that you should have the freedom of choosing your own provider no matter the device.
...or no provider at all if you wanted, and simply access through WiFi at home, work, or hotspot when it's needed.

Then and ONLY then will I ever seriously consider a pad device.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 17, 2011, 02:20 PM

First, the companies need to stop selling tablets packaged with cellular service.  It's not a phone, it never will be.  Phones are phones.  Tablets are tablets.

-superboyac (February 10, 2011, 02:54 PM)

I agree, to a point; the reason they do that is mainly for internet capability, so it kinda makes sense.
That said, I STRONGLY feel that you should have the freedom of choosing your own provider no matter the device.
...or no provider at all if you wanted, and simply access through WiFi at home, work, or hotspot when it's needed.

Then and ONLY then will I ever seriously consider a pad device.

-Edvard (March 17, 2011, 11:47 AM)

+1  :Thmbsup: It would be convenient sometimes to be able to connect to the internet away from wi-fi. However, locking the device to a particular carrier S-U-C-K-S. Why can't they just sell us tiem cards, like you can get for a pay as you go phone? You can use these for data connectivity so why not enable it for a tablet? I don't want to spend $20 a month for a data plan that I realistically might use once or twice a month...

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on March 20, 2011, 06:55 PM

Amazon now has a page for the Toshiba Tablet: http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-10-1-inch-Android-Tablet/dp/B004I43F9C

No pricing or availability date so far, but I'd guess this means the product is for real and coming soon. There has never been any mention of cellular service for the Toshiba, although I'd guess it might be possible as an add-on using the full-sized USB port on the device.

Amazon also has a page for the Motorola Xoom without cellular service, priced at $599 ($200 less than the Verizon Wireless version), also with no availability date ( http://www.amazon.com/MOTOROLA-XOOM-Android-Tablet-Wi-Fi/dp/B0045FM6SU ), and a Dell Streak 7" tablet without cellular for $379, also with no availability date ( http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Streak-Wi-Fi-Tablet-Gray/dp/B004QZASJ8 ).

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on March 21, 2011, 08:50 PM

I'm skeptical right now, but that Toshiba looks like it's going to be the stud of the tablets when it comes out.  We'll see if they screw anything up.

ipad is still king.  These manufacturers better start thinking about selling standalone tablets without tying to carriers if they want to gain any small advantage at this point.  2nd place is still very distant from apple, and they are only getting better.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what Windows 8 is going to offer for tablets.  Android is developing a lot more slowly than I would have expected from Google.  Or maybe it's the carriers slowing it down, that would make more sense.

The day I can buy a non-carrier tied Windows or Android tablet that can rival a jailbroken ipad is the day that Apple begins to lose control of this market.  Until then, no chance.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM

The Motorolla Xoom looks awesome, but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.

The Archos 101 also looks pretty good, but it doesn't have the option for cellular data plan. :-/

Toshiba Tablet looks cool, but who knows what it will cost...

I need these awesome tablets to be out 6 months ago so they'll be affordable in 2-3 months when I want to buy one.  :D

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Ath on March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.

-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff :tellme:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.

-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff :tellme:

-Ath (March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM)

Yes, it would be nice for all the real good stuff to be half price, but that doesn't mean that all the good stuff is overpriced. I do think the Xoom is way overpriced. For about $800 I could have a pretty nice Core i7 2600K desktop machine. A comparatively limited dual core tablet should only cost around $400 IMO.

I don't just think it would be nice for the Xoom to be about half price, I think it really needs to be about half price. But I'm certainly no expert. I'm just a consumer who saw the price and thought Apple's prices were tame in comparison.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on March 22, 2011, 10:36 AM

I don't just think it would be nice for the Xoom to be about half price, I think it really needs to be about half price. But I'm certainly no expert. I'm just a consumer who saw the price and thought Apple's prices were tame in comparison.

-Deozaan (March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM)

Half the weight would also not hurt ;)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on March 22, 2011, 10:38 AM

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.

-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff :tellme:

-Ath (March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM)

Yes, it would be nice for all the real good stuff to be half price, but that doesn't mean that all the good stuff is overpriced. I do think the Xoom is way overpriced. For about $800 I could have a pretty nice Core i7 2600K desktop machine. A comparatively limited dual core tablet should only cost around $400 IMO.

-Deozaan (March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM)

I've been pricing out a new machine... show me how you can have a pretty good Core-i7 for $800, please. :)


For $799 I have a core i5 spec'd out, and no, it's not a gaming machine.

Gigabyte GTX 550 Ti (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814125367) Antec 650W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817371015) Thermaltake A30 case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811133187) G.SKILL 2x2GB memory kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820231276) Seagate 500GB HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822148395) Seagate 1TB HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16822148433) Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819115074) Gigabyte GA-H61M-D2P-B3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813128482) Lite-on 24X DVD Writer (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16827106335)

Total $799.41

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Ath on March 22, 2011, 10:49 AM

The steep prices have kept me from buying one so far. And the Xoom was one of the contenders. I'm just waiting for the competition to kick in, so prices go to an acceptable level, before I get one of these 7" or 10" Android powered dreammachines :tellme:
Getting one straight from China or Hong Kong is good on price, but not on features, mostly outdated Android versions (as low as 1.5) or way to slow cpu or lack of memory. :mad:

My PC has currently enough power so I can postpone an upgrade for a few years (I just hope Win8 delays long enough)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 22, 2011, 11:32 AM

Archos is supposedly releasing a "premium" line in the summer with pricing expected (by pundits) to remain in the $300 to $400 range for a 10 inch tablet with Honeycomd (Android 3.x), a 1.6Ghz dual core processor and 3G capability. Some have suggested that they may even offer PixelQi screens on this line. It will be interesting to see if Archos (finally) lives up to its potential. They were first out of the gate with an Android tablet (the Archos 5IT) that was well executed, though plagued by FW problems for months after its release (a secondary concern is that while the hardware is capable, thus far Archos has yet to release FW for it based on Android 2.x, which is problematic because app developers are dropping support for Android 1.6 weekly. This SUCKS given that the A5 IT was @400 when released just 18 months ago AND when you consider that Android 2.2 has been out since the summer of 2010). Their next (current) generation of tablets offfered a lot of value for the asking price, but are plagued by build quality issues, poor implementation of key features (HDMI out, for example), and hardware problems - the cameras suck, for example, and the screens vary from model to model WRT quality. They've also hobbled all the current generation of tablets with inadequate RAM (128-256MB) and ridiculously small system storage allowances (230MB) - when you've got a minimum of 8GB of onboard storage, why allocate only 230MB for applications? Anyway, if Archos overcomes the quality control issue and includes a reasonable amount of RAM to backup that awesome CPU along with realistic system storage space, they may have something worth considering.

Further, Samsung has just released their pricing on the Galaxy Tab II and it is VERY competitive for both the wi-fi only and 3G (http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/22/samsung-galaxy-tab-8-9-and-10-1-get-some-competitive-price-tags/) versions. Of course, this is relative...  

Anyway, my point is that the competition is heating up and we should see much more competitively priced option in the second half of 2011.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on March 22, 2011, 05:06 PM

The Galaxy TAB 2 units look like serious contenders. Not only is the price competitive, but they are thin and light. They are both 8.6 mm thick (iPad2 is 8.8 mm) and weigh 596 g  for the 10.1 (iPad2 is 601 g) and 470 g for the 8.9 model. They are also supposed to be preloaded with the Kobo Readers Hub e-book system.

Archos always sounds wonderful, but have a history of failing to deliver, and once again I can't really imagine them competing with the big guys, although it would be nice if they did, at long last.

For my money, the Toshiba (starting at $500, supposedly) still sounds like the best option, but there are still a lot of unknowns about it, including capacity and weight.

But there are clearly going to be a lot of interesting choices before the end of summer.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on March 22, 2011, 05:16 PM

I think it's going to take any other manufacturer about 1-2 years of a great showing before Apple feels anything.  They have to be better in many ways, and people have to want to use them over an ipad.  It's a tough challenge.  Merely having something "competitive" in price and/or specs won't do it.  My prediction: this first batch of competitors will have a hard time selling similarly priced tablets (vs the ipad) that will be as well made OR as nice to use as the ipad.  Er.. a jailbroken ipad, that is.  Can they make it thin enough?  Are they going to have all the auxiliary jacks?  Nice cameras?  decent speed and power?  Long battery life?  Good screen? Are they going to be able to sell it without carrier contracts?  Right now, I have serious doubts.
Apple is eating all these guys up right now.  We'll see.  Somebody is going to have to do a really really excellent job just to stand a chance.  And I don't see these companies being able to do that so far.  They seem to have too many hangups.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 22, 2011, 06:41 PM

They have to be better in many ways, and people have to want to use them over an ipad.

-superboyac (March 22, 2011, 05:16 PM)

This is the key point: cachet. Period. As I've babbled on about before, it's mostly about marketing and the public's perception. Apple is cool and hip and the rest is staid and boring. It really won't matter how good the competition is because the majority of buyers will just buy Apple...

FWIW, I forgot to mention the RIM Playbook which looks awesome as well. However, from a marketing perspective I think that they're shooting themselves in the foot by initially releasing a product that you HAVE to tether to a Blackberry device. Better to release something anyone can use and get people excited. Just my two bits.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on March 22, 2011, 08:59 PM

For the past 15 years, snobs have been proclaiming the superiority of the Macs over Windows PCs. During that time, Windows PCs have outsold Macs by at least 10 to 1 and the ratio of available software for the platforms is even greater. Yes Macs have cachet, and if you are in one of a very few fields (graphic arts or publishing), they might possibly be a better choice. Apple is laughing all the way to the bank while the fanboys pony up for style over substance, but in the real world, most of us prefer Windows (or Linux), and the numbers reflect that.

I think the same will happen with tablets. You can have an iPad which is designed to be cool in the eyes of Steve Jobs, or you will be able to choose among a variety of Android (and possibly other OS) tablets that give you what YOU want from a tablet. 

In 2 years, Android has already overtaken the iPhone, which had a 2 year head start, in smart phone sales. I expect it will take much less than 2 years for the same to happen in tablets.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on March 23, 2011, 12:54 AM

Today's Woot is a Viewsonic 10.1" gTablet (Android 2.2) for $280.

http://www.woot.com/

Looks pretty sweet!

EDIT: Oh, and:

I've been pricing out a new machine... show me how you can have a pretty good Core-i7 for $800, please. :)

-wraith808 (March 22, 2011, 10:38 AM)

I said "about $800" because I was thinking I could recycle some old PC parts like a case, DVD-writer, HDDs, etc. I have an older "Wish List" on NewEgg that would cost ~$875 for a Core i7 2600K, 16 GB RAM, GeForce GTX 460 Fermi, Intel P67 mobo, and an Antec 650W PSU. But it looks like a few things could be upgraded (like a GTX 550 Fermi) and still keep approximately the same price.

That's not top of the line, but I would consider that a "pretty good Core i7" for about $800.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 23, 2011, 08:23 AM

For the past 15 years, snobs have been proclaiming the superiority of the Macs over Windows PCs. During that time, Windows PCs have outsold Macs by at least 10 to 1 and the ratio of available software for the platforms is even greater. Yes Macs have cachet, and if you are in one of a very few fields (graphic arts or publishing), they might possibly be a better choice. Apple is laughing all the way to the bank while the fanboys pony up for style over substance, but in the real world, most of us prefer Windows (or Linux), and the numbers reflect that.

I think the same will happen with tablets. You can have an iPad which is designed to be cool in the eyes of Steve Jobs, or you will be able to choose among a variety of Android (and possibly other OS) tablets that give you what YOU want from a tablet. 

In 2 years, Android has already overtaken the iPhone, which had a 2 year head start, in smart phone sales. I expect it will take much less than 2 years for the same to happen in tablets.

-xtabber (March 22, 2011, 08:59 PM)

I hope you're right! However, at the moment I believe that the general public perceives tablets in a "new" category (because of course they didn't exist before the iPad, right?) that is aligned more with ebook readers, smartphones, and PMPs (like the iPod Touch), rather than computers. AFAICT, in general terms Apple owns this market and WRT PMPs dominate sales. Once tablets become more useful as productivity tools (ie deviates further from Jobs' locked down vision), your prediction may prove correct (I hope it does!). While the perception of the tablet as a symbol of its owner's good taste and membership in the "in" crowd persists, it will not.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on March 23, 2011, 09:16 AM

That's not top of the line, but I would consider that a "pretty good Core i7" for about $800.

-Deozaan (March 23, 2011, 12:54 AM)

Don't ignore laptops either. There are some very good deals to be found if you're willing to look around and compromise on some specs. Not much of a sacrifice when you consider any of today's laptops will blow the doors off even the most top-of-the-line tablet. Ultra-portability is a great thing. But it comes at a fairly steep premium in terms of price and performance. Or at least so far it has.

My GF came home with a nicely appointed (factory new Asus i5/1TB/4GB/WiFi-N/ +Win7HomePremium etc.) laptop for $450 plus tax (on sale) a little while ago. I was surprised how good the video performance and quality was even though it likely won't impress a hardcore gamer.

My biggest quibble is with battery runtimes. I'd consider getting a tablet if they could just provide a battery that would last for a 'standard' workday (i.e. 8hrs under normal use) without needing to be plugged back in.
 :)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on March 23, 2011, 10:41 AM

^ Well, the thing is, while this isn't my gaming machine, I do want decent graphic performance (which the 550 ti gives me) in case my gaming rig goes down.  And you can't get a laptop with discrete graphics that don't suck without spending more than $800. (I wanted to set $500 for my limit, but I decided to add the extra $300 and skip lunch a few days... :))

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM

(This is not a criticism, just a comment):
From the discussion, it doesn't sound like many of you understand how truly different a tablet is from a laptop or a desktop.  Comparing a tablet to a laptop is like comparing a compact car to a pickup truck.  They are both cars, but practically speaking, they are entirely different animals.  Nobody would compare the towing capability of a truck to a compact car...and then criticize the compact car for not being able to tow as much.

This is the transition people are going to make the next few years.  I didn't "get it" myself until I used my ipad daily for a couple of months.  Now I get it.  A tablet is a handy thing to have while you are out and about.  A laptop and desktop are more for gearing down and doing something relatively serious.  It's more than just being "handy".  There is most likely going to be a strong shift towards tablets the next few years, similar to what we've seen with laptops in recent years.  When laptops first came out, the same things were said "But my desktop can do so much more for the same money".  Now, a lot of non-hardcore computer users use laptops as their primary computing device.  A similar shift is going to happen with tablets.  People are going to forget about their desktops and laptops and just use tablets for everything.

Remember, most people are very light computer users compared to us.  They check email, browse the web, chat a little bit, and that's it.  That's really it.  My own sister got an iphone and she has stopped using her desktop...like within a week.  This is NORMAL.

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable.  I just don't know what to say.  Specs has nothing to do with it.  There are motors in a lot of different equipment, but you wouldn't compare the motor of a copy machine with backup generator.

40...I know you don't like Apple, but the ipad easily lasts a workday on a battery charge.  I don't think you'd be disappointed, unless it was purely a financial issue.  I can't say for you whether it's worth the money or not, but I think I can say that you'd be happy with it.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on March 23, 2011, 12:54 PM

My biggest quibble is with battery runtimes. I'd consider getting a tablet if they could just provide a battery that would last for a 'standard' workday (i.e. 8hrs under normal use) without needing to be plugged back in.
 :)

-40hz (March 23, 2011, 09:16 AM)

Today is the third full workday that I've been using* mine, and I haven't plugged it in yet.  And my battery is at 42%.

*Using includes books (writing a presentation), remote desktop, taking notes, calendar, e-mail, and browsing...

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Gailin on March 23, 2011, 01:45 PM

I bought a Nook Color and rooted it.  It can become an awesome tablet that only costs $200.  Sure it is not as full featured as the Samsung or Xoom, but it is also 400 dollars cheaper.  Also, you retain all of the nook capabilities for your library, shopping.  I spend a lot of time in waiting rooms etc, so it provides a nice middle form factor between my phone and laptop for passing the time.  Sometimes carrying a laptop and the associated accessories can be cumbersome and the phone is a bit small for large amounts of reading.

It does have a couple rough corners since the Nook Color has only been out a few months.  But there is a very active community constantly improving the rooted ROM's abilities and stability.  For instance, the Nook Color has bluetooth abilities in hardware, but were turned off in software.  The modding community has found a way to activate it and provide bluetooth support.  This now allows the nook color to do SIP calls over wifi.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on March 23, 2011, 08:54 PM

(This is not a criticism, just a comment):
From the discussion, it doesn't sound like many of you understand how truly different a tablet is from a laptop or a desktop.
.....
This is the transition people are going to make the next few years.  I didn't "get it" myself until I used my ipad daily for a couple of months.  Now I get it.  ....  People are going to forget about their desktops and laptops and just use tablets for everything.
...
That's really it.  My own sister got an iphone and she has stopped using her desktop...like within a week.  This is NORMAL.

-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

I agree with this, except that I would say that tablets are more comparable to smartphones than to PCs, whether desktops or laptops.

I am not going to use my Android phone for work, but I do find that I use it for many of the things that I used to use a computer for. A tablet would expand that capability even more, meaning that my computers would be used more and more just for the kind of work that requires a keyboard and a big screen. For everything else, which simply means everything for much of the population, a tablet would be not just adequate, but a better tool altogether.

That said, I'm just not impressed with the iPad. I had the chance today to play with both an iPad with a Motorola Xoom. The Xoom has some rough edges and is way overpriced, but I liked it much better than the iPad. Perhaps because I'm more used to working with an Android phone than an iPhone. It just seems much more flexible and capable, and I find the rectangular shape more pleasing than the squarish iPad. But the killer feature is the 1280x800 screen that simply blows the iPad's 1024x768 screen away, particularly with HD video, which I think will be a major factor in determining which tablets succeed in the non-geek market.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on March 23, 2011, 09:36 PM

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable.

-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

Here's how they are comparable to me:

I want a pretty good Core i7 PC. I also want a pretty good Android Tablet.

Given that they both cost (about) the same, if I had to choose between them, then I'm totally choosing the Core i7 PC. On the other hand, if the Xoom was about $400 then I would probably postpone my Core i7 purchase for later and get the tablet.

It's not worth it to me to get such a relatively limited "compact car" for the same price as the much more powerful "truck" when I want both but can only choose one.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on March 23, 2011, 10:32 PM

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable.

-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

Here's how they are comparable to me:

I want a pretty good Core i7 PC. I also want a pretty good Android Tablet.

Given that they both cost (about) the same, if I had to choose between them, then I'm totally choosing the Core i7 PC. On the other hand, if the Xoom was about $400 then I would probably postpone my Core i7 purchase for later and get the tablet.

It's not worth it to me to get such a relatively limited "compact car" for the same price as the much more powerful "truck" when I want both but can only choose one.

-Deozaan (March 23, 2011, 09:36 PM)

Yeah, if it's a matter of money, it gets complicated.  If you can only afford one device, you need to choose the one that will cover the majority of your needs.  I just felt like in this discussion, one device was being criticized at the expense of the other, but they are two different things.  Just because a desktop can do more than a tablet doesn't make a desktop better than a tablet.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: nosh on March 23, 2011, 11:20 PM

I agree with superboyac. A conventional laptop/desktop is meant for productivity. A tablet is mostly for convenience. There's no way you can make a good case if you're arguing for a tablet replacing a conventional device. It's meant to compliment them and make your life that much more convenient. For instance, it's far more convenient using a tablet lying down at the end of the day.

I love the iPad, despite the lockdowns and general assholery that Apple graces it with.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Shades on March 23, 2011, 11:43 PM

For me it is not the price that would prevent me from purchasing one. For the price that these cost, they do not deliver. Period. Also, the only tablets easily attainable are ipads (so fat chance in hell I will ever buy one of those). Those things should not cost more than 200 US dollar at the maximum.

Deozaan is totally and utterly right in getting an i7-based PC for the money that (whatever) pad costs. Granted, I feel the same way about netbooks, they should cost a maximum of 300 US dollars, in any circumstance. For those prices I can live with the limited functionality these things offer (including whatever lockdown method).

Right now the price for this kind of gadgets is an insult for intelligence!

Sorry for the rant.


[bad joke]

Hmm, maybe I should read less posts from Renegade...  :huh:

[/bad joke]

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on March 24, 2011, 07:46 AM

Prices will come down - people are paying for the privilege of being early adopters right now. Look at notebooks - I still can't believe that I get aerated about $1000 for a premium notebook today when you consider that I was happy - thought I'd gotten a bargain in fact - to pay $1800 for a run of the mill Centrino notebook 7 years ago.

Superboyac raises a good point about what tablets ARE and what people think that they are. However, the problem is attributable to reviewers, pundits, and the manufacturers  - particularly the manufacturers, who are trying to define the niche at the moment. It is understandable that DC'ers might want these devices to be very powerful notebook replacements. At the other end of the spectrum you have the iPad's vision as a device for the consumption of media. The reality is that manufacturers are catering to those views and everyting in between, so there's a bit of collective schizophrenia at the moment. For example, on the geek end you've got the Toshiba Libretto W100-002 1.20GHz Tablet PC (lust, drool - played with one for about 30 minutes at a local store) and the Asus EP121 (there are Android equivalents, though - like the Notion Ink Adam) while on the conumable media end you've got the ever-evolving world of ebook readers, particularly the rootable Barnes and Noble Nook...

I don't know - it's all very Confucian (you know the curse: "may you live in interesting times"? These ARE interesting times!). It's not even so much about the tablet segment per se as it is about the rapid escalation in portable technology and the way in which functions are intersecting in one device. Is it an ebook reader? a portable music player? A PMP? An MMP? A phone? A TV? A portable computer? With the present technology I think that this is a bad thing - Jack of all trades and all that, but developments are happening so rapidly that I think that soon such "all-in-one in your pocket" devices will quickly become not only reality but indispensible...

EDIT: removed an errant line-break

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on March 24, 2011, 08:29 AM

Here's a description of what I want a tablet for:

While it rests on its stand (being charged) on the sideboard in the living room, it's a photo frame.
When a message comes in, it makes some funny sound and displays the message at the bottom of the screen overlaying the still changing photo slideshow. Touching the message opens the messaging app.
When I touch somewhere else, the home screen is being displayed, showing clock, weather forecast, news and calendar.
Likewise, when I take it out of the stand, it shows the home screen. Pressing the Browser link opens the Web Browser for surfing.
Or I take it out of the stand to watch some holiday videos with my kids which are stored on the NAS.
Or I take it out of the stand to play some game.
When I put it back into the stand it will go back to photo slide show after a couple of minutes.

I don't want to code with it, I don't want to write long emails with it, I don't want to do my e-banking with it. I probably don't even want to do photo or video editing with it. It really only needs to be as powerful as necessary to do all of the above. I guess all of that is already now possible with current Android tablets or an iPad. So my priorities are functionality as described above with decent performance, as lightweight as possible, reasonably priced.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Ath on March 24, 2011, 08:55 AM

While it rests on its stand (being charged) on the sideboard in the living room, it's a photo frame.

-phitsc (March 24, 2011, 08:29 AM)

That's what my Motorola Milestone does (kinda) when settled in it's (official) deskstand (http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/cat/Milestone-Desk-Stands.htm). The deskstand has a magnet in a specific place, recognized by the phone, that switches it to Deskstand mode (a special Motorola supplied app) 8). The same goes for the car-holder, a magnet in another spot triggers the car-mode, and loads the default navigation app.
It's required for the phone/tablet to have hardware support for that ofcourse :-\

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on July 16, 2011, 02:22 PM

Someday I think I will own something like this:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
http://usa.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/ (http://usa.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/)

It's an Android tablet with a dockable keyboard with touchpad. The dock adds more battery life and some USB ports, etc. So it's basically an Android and a netbook combined. Click the image above for more details.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: tomos on July 16, 2011, 03:47 PM

Someday I think I will own something like this:

 (see attachment in previous post (http://usa.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/))http://usa.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101/ (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25577.msg255328#msg255328)

It's an Android tablet with a dockable keyboard with touchpad. The dock adds more battery life and some USB ports, etc. So it's basically an Android and a netbook combined. Click the image above for more details.

-Deozaan (July 16, 2011, 02:22 PM)

saw that in the junk mail - has an IPS screen too :up:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 26, 2011, 08:38 AM

Found a good short overview over current Android tablets:

14 best Android tablets in the world (http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/14-best-android-tablets-in-the-world-905504)

and in the first comment the amazing:

http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/ (http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/)


How many years since the original iPad was launched? And still there is no tablet available comparable in form factor, weight, performance and price running Android :(

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Renegade on July 26, 2011, 09:42 AM

and in the first comment the amazing:

http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/ (http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/)

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 08:38 AM)

DAMN~! That's one WICKED COOL site!

3 clicks to this:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

THAT is how things should work! F**K! I am inspired again! I've regained my faith in the web's potential to not just be total crap, and to excel in actually intelligent functionality!

JEEZ! Seriously! I'm impressed! Every time I try to shop at some site, I'm bombarded by 100 trillion miles of shit that I just don't care about and forced to dig through it all to find what I want. I'm so sick of that. That site seriously has some serious mojo there! :)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on July 26, 2011, 10:11 AM

How many years since the original iPad was launched? And still there is no tablet available comparable in form factor, weight, performance and price running Android :(

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 08:38 AM)

Huh? The first 3 Android tablets in that article are comparable to iPad 1/2. . . :huh:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 26, 2011, 10:39 AM

How many years since the original iPad was launched? And still there is no tablet available comparable in form factor, weight, performance and price running Android :(

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 08:38 AM)

Huh? The first 3 Android tablets in that article are comparable to iPad 1/2. . . :huh:

-Deozaan (July 26, 2011, 10:11 AM)

The Transformer and the Xoom are heavier, the 10.1 is not available (at least not in Europe).

(so, well, yeah, ok, they are comparable ;) )

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: TheQwerty on July 26, 2011, 11:48 AM

… the 10.1 is not available (at least not in Europe).

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 10:39 AM)

Should be available in the UK pretty soon (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/samsung-galaxy-tab-to-arrive-a-day-early-35146), so it's getting closer.  ;)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on July 26, 2011, 01:18 PM

I'm actually holding out for HP's webOS and TouchPad.

Primarily because of what they're doing to make life as easy and profitable as possible for developers (https://developer.palm.com/). They have understandable and sane developer's licensing, good software tools, support for OpenSource partnering, and a very fair (70% to developer) revenue sharing schedule. Details here (https://developer.palm.com/content/resources/distribute/developing_and_distributing_with_hp/developer_program_details.html).

Best of all, just about anybody who wants in can do so easily - and for free. Compare that to what you need to go through (and put up with) to be an iOS developer.

Maybe 1984 wasn't "just like 1984."

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

But 2011 could well be if Apple has anything to say about it. :P

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 26, 2011, 02:42 PM

… the 10.1 is not available (at least not in Europe).

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 10:39 AM)

Should be available in the UK pretty soon (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/samsung-galaxy-tab-to-arrive-a-day-early-35146), so it's getting closer.  ;)

-TheQwerty (July 26, 2011, 11:48 AM)

You know how it goes. The first 3 each shop gets go to the first of the 59 pre-orders. The next shipment with the next 10 is then due one month later. The first deliveries will also be the 16 GB ones only. Then, after another 6 months, when the 32 GB ones get available, the far superior successor has already been announced for 3 months and delivery is *imminent*. Damn, I'm so sick of it. >:(

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 26, 2011, 02:51 PM

I'm actually holding out for HP's webOS and TouchPad.

Primarily because of what they're doing to make life as easy and profitable as possible for developers. They have understandable and sane developer's licensing, good software tools, support for OpenSource partnering, and a very fair (70% to developer) revenue sharing schedule. Details here.

Best of all, just about anybody who wants in can do so easily - and for free. Compare that to what you need to go through (and put up with) to be an iOS developer.

-40hz (July 26, 2011, 01:18 PM)

I guess that's the only way to ever have a chance of motivating enough developers to develop for the platform. Without apps, the platform will have a tough job no matter how good webOS and its 'native' applications are.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Ath on July 26, 2011, 04:58 PM

… the 10.1 is not available (at least not in Europe).

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 10:39 AM)

Should be available in the UK pretty soon (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/samsung-galaxy-tab-to-arrive-a-day-early-35146), so it's getting closer.  ;)

-TheQwerty (July 26, 2011, 11:48 AM)

In Holland, Vodafone has the 10.1v (branded for Vodafone, but the 'fat' 10.9 mm version) available (isn't that available in all the Vodafone countries?), but the new (and thinner, 8.6 mm) 10.1 will only be available somewhere around August/September, AFAIR.
Big disadvantage of the 10.1 is it has a mere 3 mpx camera, opposed to the 10.1v 8 mpx camera. That is going to save you some storage, but cost you image quality I presume.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: tsaint on July 26, 2011, 05:41 PM

2 points...
1. I don't think I'd consider a tablet without a usb port. I have an iconia (A500) and I can, and do
- plug a logitech mini receiver for a mouse into it  when needed
- when i bring it to work, I can grab a usb keyboard lying around to plug into it
- connect my olympus camera directly to it to transfer photos
- record tv programs from my tv onto a usb drive and then plug that into the tablet to watch
- plug in an external hard drive containing pics or music
2. Does it rival the ipad2? I grabbed this list from somewhere.

RAM  512 MB iPad2 vs 1 G Acer
No USB port iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *) vs USB port Acer
No SD Card slot iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *$29) vs SD Card slot Acer
No HDMI output port iPad2 (need external adapter $39) vs HDMI output port Acer
No Camera flash “bulb” iPad2 vs Camera flash “bulb” Acer
Camera Rear less than 1 MP (0.92) iPad2 vs 5 MP Acer
Camera Front less than 1 MP (0.7) iPad2 vs 2 MP Acer
Speaker 1 iPad2 vs 2 Speakers Acer
No Browser Tabs iPad2 vs Browser Tabs Acer
No Adobe Flash Player iPad2 vs Adobe Flash Player Acer
Requires iTunes even for file transfers iPad2 vs Normal file transfers – USB, SD card, etc. Acer
Wifi Price $567 iPad2 vs $449 Acer Iconia A500
Screen 1024 x 768 iPad2 vs 1280 x 800 Acer
GPS iPad2 3G Only vs Acer GPS w/Wifi

Weight doesnt seem all that different to me, the screen on the iconia looks fine when i watch or read stuff on it.
Since I have a 3G phone which I'm always carrying, and dont want TWO phone accounts/data plans, I prefer to use tethering than have a wifi enabled tablet
So I'd say the iconia clearly rivals the ipad2, except perhaps in "cachet" .

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Renegade on July 26, 2011, 06:36 PM

2 points...
1. I don't think I'd consider a tablet without a usb port. I have an iconia (A500) and I can, and do
- plug a logitech mini receiver for a mouse into it  when needed
- when i bring it to work, I can grab a usb keyboard lying around to plug into it
- connect my olympus camera directly to it to transfer photos
- record tv programs from my tv onto a usb drive and then plug that into the tablet to watch
- plug in an external hard drive containing pics or music
2. Does it rival the ipad2? I grabbed this list from somewhere.

RAM  512 MB iPad2 vs 1 G Acer
No USB port iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *) vs USB port Acer
No SD Card slot iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *$29) vs SD Card slot Acer
No HDMI output port iPad2 (need external adapter $39) vs HDMI output port Acer
No Camera flash “bulb” iPad2 vs Camera flash “bulb” Acer
Camera Rear less than 1 MP (0.92) iPad2 vs 5 MP Acer
Camera Front less than 1 MP (0.7) iPad2 vs 2 MP Acer
Speaker 1 iPad2 vs 2 Speakers Acer
No Browser Tabs iPad2 vs Browser Tabs Acer
No Adobe Flash Player iPad2 vs Adobe Flash Player Acer
Requires iTunes even for file transfers iPad2 vs Normal file transfers – USB, SD card, etc. Acer
Wifi Price $567 iPad2 vs $449 Acer Iconia A500
Screen 1024 x 768 iPad2 vs 1280 x 800 Acer
GPS iPad2 3G Only vs Acer GPS w/Wifi

-tsaint (July 26, 2011, 05:41 PM)

Acer wins!

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Fatality!

:)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 26, 2011, 10:27 PM

2 points...
1. I don't think I'd consider a tablet without a usb port. I have an iconia (A500) and I can, and do
- plug a logitech mini receiver for a mouse into it  when needed
- when i bring it to work, I can grab a usb keyboard lying around to plug into it
- connect my olympus camera directly to it to transfer photos
- record tv programs from my tv onto a usb drive and then plug that into the tablet to watch
- plug in an external hard drive containing pics or music
2. Does it rival the ipad2? I grabbed this list from somewhere.

RAM  512 MB iPad2 vs 1 G Acer
No USB port iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *) vs USB port Acer
No SD Card slot iPad2 (need external sd/usb adapters *$29) vs SD Card slot Acer
No HDMI output port iPad2 (need external adapter $39) vs HDMI output port Acer
No Camera flash “bulb” iPad2 vs Camera flash “bulb” Acer
Camera Rear less than 1 MP (0.92) iPad2 vs 5 MP Acer
Camera Front less than 1 MP (0.7) iPad2 vs 2 MP Acer
Speaker 1 iPad2 vs 2 Speakers Acer
No Browser Tabs iPad2 vs Browser Tabs Acer
No Adobe Flash Player iPad2 vs Adobe Flash Player Acer
Requires iTunes even for file transfers iPad2 vs Normal file transfers – USB, SD card, etc. Acer
Wifi Price $567 iPad2 vs $449 Acer Iconia A500
Screen 1024 x 768 iPad2 vs 1280 x 800 Acer
GPS iPad2 3G Only vs Acer GPS w/Wifi

Weight doesnt seem all that different to me, the screen on the iconia looks fine when i watch or read stuff on it.
Since I have a 3G phone which I'm always carrying, and dont want TWO phone accounts/data plans, I prefer to use tethering than have a wifi enabled tablet
So I'd say the iconia clearly rivals the ipad2, except perhaps in "cachet" .

-tsaint (July 26, 2011, 05:41 PM)

These have all been brought up before.  And I bought into it the first time.  But I can say after having one for a while, none of those are really issues in everyday use, at least for me.  And no, you don't need to use itunes to transfer.  The rabid anti-pad knee jerk reaction is just as annoying personally as the rabid apple apologists.  In the end, they're all tools (though less so than some of the users  ;D), so use what you want, and let the money do the talking, IMO.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: tsaint on July 27, 2011, 12:14 AM

Just to be clear, I carefully phrased my post because I'm quite unrabid, maybe through indolence, maybe through rugged individualism. I clearly said it's a rival...the list was evidence of that. My point 1 addressed MY preference and why.
My post didn't seem worth getting excited about really.. this isn't a zdnet type forum after all.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on July 27, 2011, 06:48 AM

@tsaint - :Thmbsup:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 27, 2011, 03:16 PM

Just to be clear, I carefully phrased my post because I'm quite unrabid, maybe through indolence, maybe through rugged individualism. I clearly said it's a rival...the list was evidence of that. My point 1 addressed MY preference and why.
My post didn't seem worth getting excited about really.. this isn't a zdnet type forum after all.

-tsaint (July 27, 2011, 12:14 AM)

I wasn't getting excited by your post (which was the reason for the  ;D) in there.  It's just that list is the same one circulated for a while, and a list of features isn't an argument, at least IMO.  It's useability and what's useful to you, which is where my buying into it the first time before I had actually used it was a factor.  So in the same manner that your post wasn't anything to get excited about, I wasn't getting excited.  ;)  And I'm not sure where the zdnet forum bit comes from...  :huh:

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: tsaint on July 27, 2011, 07:07 PM

 It's good that no one's excited. The zdnet forum reference comes about because
a. zdnet is probably fairly well known so a fair proportion of those reading my post would be aware of the site
b. on an almost daily basis, news pertinent to apple/tablets/ipads/androids appears, resulting in an almost daily ritual of interplatform warfare in their forums.
And regardless of what the news might be, you will find Micro$oft (sic), M$, "walled garden", coolaid, fanboi, "apple hater" used.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on July 27, 2011, 09:12 PM

Found a good short overview over current Android tablets:

14 best Android tablets in the world (http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/14-best-android-tablets-in-the-world-905504)

and in the first comment the amazing:

http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/ (http://www.android-tablet-comparison-world.com/)

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 08:38 AM)

Here's one none of them mention yet but that looks promising: the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet (http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/tablets/thinkpad). Supposedly available within the next few days starting at $499.

Similar in many respects to the Toshiba Thrive in terms of size and connectivity (full size USB host, HDMI out, connector for a dock with or without a keyboard).  Some interesting touches, like a pen digitizer (and a slot to store the pen) to write on the screen, which is made of Gorilla Glass, and physical Android navigation buttons .

It looks like there is a split developing in the Android table market. Computer manufacturers like Toshiba and Lenovo (and possibly also eventually ASUS and Acer) are looking to compete with Apple in the tablet market much as they compete with it in the laptop market, that is, offer more functionality for the same or less money, and ignore the cool factor.  Mobile phone manufacturers (Motorola, Samsung, LG), on the other hand, look to compete with the iPad much in the way they compete with Apple in the mobile phone market, by trying to impress with their cool designs.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Edvard on July 27, 2011, 09:54 PM

Ooh, I like this one: the Bento Box Laptop hybrid...

http://www.yankodesign.com/2011/05/06/bento-box-kinda-like-voltron/

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
 (http://www.yankodesign.com/2011/05/06/bento-box-kinda-like-voltron/)

Android would be a good fit for it; although it's vaporware for the moment, I think it's a sound concept.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Deozaan on July 27, 2011, 11:53 PM

A 1 TB SSD? That alone would cost something like $2,000!

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: SKA on July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRcx1rxTLG8&feature=player_embedded

Ska

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 28, 2011, 02:15 AM

… the 10.1 is not available (at least not in Europe).

-phitsc (July 26, 2011, 10:39 AM)

Should be available in the UK pretty soon (http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/samsung-galaxy-tab-to-arrive-a-day-early-35146), so it's getting closer.  ;)

-TheQwerty (July 26, 2011, 11:48 AM)

In Holland, Vodafone has the 10.1v (branded for Vodafone, but the 'fat' 10.9 mm version) available (isn't that available in all the Vodafone countries?), but the new (and thinner, 8.6 mm) 10.1 will only be available somewhere around August/September, AFAIR.
Big disadvantage of the 10.1 is it has a mere 3 mpx camera, opposed to the 10.1v 8 mpx camera. That is going to save you some storage, but cost you image quality I presume.

-Ath (July 26, 2011, 04:58 PM)

Same in Switzerland. Current estimation for the 32 and 64 GB Models is end of August. But in what quantities?

Concerning the camera: In a tablet I'll go with an inferior camera in favour of a thinner and lighter device.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 28, 2011, 10:17 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM)

A tattoo instead of a sticker would show real dedication!

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 28, 2011, 10:21 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM)

The pictures indicate that the tablet can be used independently from the phone. So what does putting the phone into the tablet give you?

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 10:55 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM)

The pictures indicate that the tablet can be used independently from the phone. So what does putting the phone into the tablet give you?

-phitsc (July 28, 2011, 10:21 AM)

A larger interface and more real-estate, I'd guess.  Sort of like the Motorola ATRIX, the first that had me looking at possibly ditching my iPhone.  In my dream world, you'd have one device and several bodies for it, to let you always carry the guts of the device with you, and consume it in multiple ways.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on July 28, 2011, 11:46 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM)

The pictures indicate that the tablet can be used independently from the phone. So what does putting the phone into the tablet give you?

-phitsc (July 28, 2011, 10:21 AM)

A larger interface and more real-estate, I'd guess.  Sort of like the Motorola ATRIX, the first that had me looking at possibly ditching my iPhone.  In my dream world, you'd have one device and several bodies for it, to let you always carry the guts of the device with you, and consume it in multiple ways.

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 10:55 AM)

I thought that's what the cloud is for ;)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 11:48 AM

Asus Padfone: (phone+tablet)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-announced-padfone/

-SKA (July 28, 2011, 12:23 AM)

That looks decently interesting and similar to the one from AT&T.  But more interesting is the attractive woman with stickers directly on her artfully exposed flesh (?)

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 07:54 AM)

The pictures indicate that the tablet can be used independently from the phone. So what does putting the phone into the tablet give you?

-phitsc (July 28, 2011, 10:21 AM)

A larger interface and more real-estate, I'd guess.  Sort of like the Motorola ATRIX, the first that had me looking at possibly ditching my iPhone.  In my dream world, you'd have one device and several bodies for it, to let you always carry the guts of the device with you, and consume it in multiple ways.

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 10:55 AM)

I thought that's what the cloud is for ;)

-phitsc (July 28, 2011, 11:46 AM)

Not so much, IMO.  It's a substitute until that comes to be.  ;D

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 28, 2011, 12:06 PM

Doe to some shenanigans the sales department is involved in, I have a brand new HP Slate sitting here in front of me. No I don't get to keep it. But I do get to play with it for a bit.

From on to the logon screen took just (barely) under a minute (with no AV installed). Yeesh!

This thing ain't fast. Even HP's own website lagged a bit while trying to navigate it.

This thing is heavy. Not as bad as most netbooks, but quite heavy after an hour of fiddling with it.

The touch screen encourages heavy handedness, as it doesn't respond well (or sometimes at all) to a lite touch. Stylue/pen/pointer thing works well, and has a right-click button on it. Which I did rather like.

The handwrighting input, best I can tell, hates (me) left handed people. As we tend to start certain letters/numbers from the bottom (o, 3, 8, etc.) instead of the top ... and this thing was having none of it. Even after a training session on what was to be perceived as an 'o' damnit. It just couldn't get it right.

The one usb port is covered by one of those rubber hinged plastic doors that'll most likely snap off in short order with anything other than casual use. And the lack of an ethernet port is a complete deal breaking annoyance for me. The WiFi connection is nice, but it is also completely useless if your purpose for being somewhere it to troubleshoot an issue the WiFi.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 01:17 PM

^ Is this the one with the Palm OS (or whatever they're calling it) or Windows 7?

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 28, 2011, 01:33 PM

It comes with Windows 7 Professional, which struck me as quite odd. As I thought they were more of a home edition/user type of device.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 03:43 PM

It comes with Windows 7 Professional, which struck me as quite odd. As I thought they were more of a home edition/user type of device.

-Stoic Joker (July 28, 2011, 01:33 PM)

No, that particular pad is aimed at the enterprise.  It looked pretty good- thanks for your viewpoint! 

As far as the history, from what I remember it was originally aimed at the iPad, and was supposed to be priced as such and equipped as such.  But it had the misfortune of nearing release when they bought out palm, and I think they only released it because it was already at the end of the development cycle.  But to minimize the impact of the tablet and the losses that might ensue/competition to their new WebOS, they re-targeted it to professionals.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 28, 2011, 04:01 PM

No, that particular pad is aimed at the enterprise.

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 03:43 PM)

Ah! That makes sense then. It did seem oddly clean for an HP, as the usually like to lump in much crapware. This is quite acceptably close to a vanilla load.

It looked pretty good- thanks for your viewpoint!

-wraith808 (July 28, 2011, 03:43 PM)

In fairness, I don't think an arthritic southpaw is real close to the baseline they (or anybody else) targeted. So if one got used to it (and vise-versa...) I could see it being quite handy. Not sure where to put the stylus...but it's not that difficult to finger in a pinch.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 28, 2011, 05:01 PM

In fairness, I don't think an arthritic southpaw is real close to the baseline they (or anybody else) targeted. So if one got used to it (and vise-versa...) I could see it being quite handy. Not sure where to put the stylus...but it's not that difficult to finger in a pinch.

-Stoic Joker (July 28, 2011, 04:01 PM)

It was more the slowness that turned me off... a minute to the prompt?  My xp tablet does better than that...

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on July 28, 2011, 05:14 PM

I just returned an Acer Iconia A500. I liked it a lot - why did I return it, then? Because I don't see these Android tablets (or iPads?) as being more than toys at this stage. Honeycomb is slick and I could check e-mail, read the newspaper, etc. with ease. However, I'm not sure what this brings to the table above and beyond my smartphone and notebook computer. At this stage, the screen technology means that producing anything on it isn't an easy task unless you hook up an external keyboard. I don't buy into the Jobesian view of the tablet as being a tool for the consumption of media... $400 to 750 for what amounts to a big iPod Touch? For that kind of money I'm looking for more productivity.

Hidden in the above is the real reason: the price of even the cheaper Android tablets is hard to justify when balanced against what you can actually do with the things. Right now they are toys, and bloody expensive ones at that!

I'm REALLY excited about the possibilities suggested by what I've seen of Windows 8 so far... Will be watching developments there with interest.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on July 28, 2011, 05:52 PM

I'm REALLY excited about the possibilities suggested by what I've seen of Windows 8 so far... Will be watching developments there with interest.

-Darwin (July 28, 2011, 05:14 PM)

People are already dismissing Windows 8 as being too late to the party, or not being able to overcome the momentum of iOS and Android.  But I think Windows 8 is going to be the tablet answer for me.  I like my ipad, it's ok.  But it lacks so much in the way of configurability, even jailbroken.  Android is better in that respect, but still, my problem is that all my stuff is on Windows, and it would just be super duper convenient if the OS on the tablet was Windows also.  It's not that it's better, it's just that I need that low level compatibility so I can deal with my files, folders, and favorite software without any middlemen or hacks to bridge the gap.  I think Windows 8 is going to surprise people.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 29, 2011, 06:56 AM

Here's an odd thought. Due to the complexities of interacting with a tablet based device, why is it that none of them seem to include voice activation? It already exists in many smart phones; call X, go to link X, map address X. That would simplify the interaction greatly.

 :-\

...Come to think of it, Windows 7 does include this as a configurable option. I gotta get that tablet back from the sales crew and see if/how well it does/will actually work.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 29, 2011, 10:47 AM

I like my ipad, it's ok.  But it lacks so much in the way of configurability, even jailbroken.  Android is better in that respect, but still, my problem is that all my stuff is on Windows, and it would just be super duper convenient if the OS on the tablet was Windows also.  It's not that it's better, it's just that I need that low level compatibility so I can deal with my files, folders, and favorite software without any middlemen or hacks to bridge the gap.

-superboyac (July 28, 2011, 05:52 PM)

We've had a different experience, and I'm not sure why.  I use my iPad for the majority of my document work.  With just a couple of apps, my text editing (also using markdown) is synchronized with my desktop, my other documents are synchronized over google documents, and my keyboard case means that I can edit where ever I want.  While it is true that they are different in terms of the software, the functionality is still there, which is what matters to me.  The only thing that I need now is a mouse solution for when I sit down to do work.  Still utilizing the screen with a keyboard is sort of strange to me.  But other than that, it works. 

To be fair, if Android tablets had come out before I got hooked on the ipad (i.e. apps) it would work just as well I'm sure; I'm just using it for a dumb interface to my documents.  But already having an iphone/ipad, no matter how cool the other devices are, it will have to be head and shoulders above with some sort of killer feature for me to switch.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Eóin on July 29, 2011, 11:51 AM

That situation wraith is exactly Apples game. Their software distribution ties developers hands and locks you into Apples platform.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on July 29, 2011, 02:07 PM

That situation wraith is exactly Apples game. Their software distribution ties developers hands and locks you into Apples platform.

-Eóin (July 29, 2011, 11:51 AM)

It's not Apple's game.  It's everyone's game.  No matter what platform you're on, you're locked into that platform once you start consuming it.  Whether the platform is a garden or a courtyard is no different- it's just the distance that you find yourself from the fence.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on August 01, 2011, 04:15 AM

And here we go:
Samsung Galaxy Tab P7500 (that's the 10.1), the 16GB initially scheduled for end of July is now planned for end of August. The 32GB and 64GB initially scheduled for end of August are now beginning of September.

I'll get one for Christmas I guess :(

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on August 01, 2011, 07:04 AM

Okay, follow-up to my earlier musings about voice activation.

I shanghaied the HP Slate for the weekend to see how well it preformed with the Windows 7 native voice command feature enabled. Being that the stylus was true to form (lost already) unavailable. My options were to either finger the thing or try talking to it.

I'll keep this short, it failed miserably. The embedded Mic did fine for "hearing" my voice, and it did open the program I asked it for correctly. But training it to do text input was pointless as it was incredibly slow. To quantify that imagine reading the above sentence aloud to it, and then wait about 7 seconds before it responded with any attempt at deciphering it.

This thing may have had a chance if HP made it faster ... but it's a $700.00 paper weight as far as I'm concerned.

Here's another test it failed miserably.

Go to TVGuide.com
Select what's on link
Configure location (zip code/provider name/channel package)
Then configure favorite channels list. (about 20 channels for me)

Due to the excessive lagging of the machine trying to render TV-Guides (granted horribly written) website, the above exorcise took just under an hour.

I'm going to recommend they send it back and invest the money in office supplies (pens & paper notepads).

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on August 01, 2011, 07:40 AM

The handwrighting input, best I can tell, hates (me) left handed people. As we tend to start certain letters/numbers from the bottom (o, 3, 8, etc.) instead of the top ... and this thing was having none of it. Even after a training session on what was to be perceived as an 'o' damnit. It just couldn't get it right.

-Stoic Joker (July 28, 2011, 12:06 PM)

I always find it amusing that the Palm Pilot figured out the handwriting issue ages ago with its Grafiti alphabet and interface - and nobody has brought it over to any of the new tablets or smartphones.

Guess in this era of software patents and lock-in, NIH rules supreme. Even if it means dismissing from consideration something that actually worked. :-\

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on August 01, 2011, 08:46 AM

The handwrighting input, best I can tell, hates (me) left handed people. As we tend to start certain letters/numbers from the bottom (o, 3, 8, etc.) instead of the top ... and this thing was having none of it. Even after a training session on what was to be perceived as an 'o' damnit. It just couldn't get it right.

-Stoic Joker (July 28, 2011, 12:06 PM)

I always find it amusing that the Palm Pilot figured out the handwriting issue ages ago with its Grafiti alphabet and interface - and nobody has brought it over to any of the new tablets or smartphones.

Guess in this era of software patents and lock-in, NIH rules supreme. Even if it means dismissing from consideration something that actually worked. :-\

-40hz (August 01, 2011, 07:40 AM)

That's true, huh?  Those palm pilots really had no trouble with handwriting.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on August 01, 2011, 08:54 AM

Absolutely none. It could keep up with me no matter how fast I wrote. Some fellow techs used to use the "grafabet" for their paper notes too. It's a pretty efficient set if letter forms. And it looked "sooooo geek" when you used it that way.  ;D

Palm realized it was far easier to train the user rather than try to have 10,000 users attempt to train the same interface.

There's a lesson in there someplace.  :)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on August 01, 2011, 09:02 AM

Absolutely none. It could keep up with me no matter how fast I wrote. Some fellow techs used to use the "grafabet" for their paper notes too. It's a pretty efficient set if letter forms. And it looked "sooooo geek" when you used it that way.  ;D

Palm realized it was far easier to train the user rather than try to have 10,000 users attempt to train the same interface.

There's a lesson in there someplace.  :)

-40hz (August 01, 2011, 08:54 AM)

Very true.  Never thought of it that way.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on August 01, 2011, 09:37 AM

^i used to say you have a choice about where to put the smarts when developing an app.  The less intelligence you require in front of the monitor, the greater the intelligence required behind it.

If you're gonna make excuses for people who refuse to learn something, you're gonna have to be willing to write a whole lot of code to compensate for user stupidity and intransigence.

Lately, much software seems to be trying to accommodate the lowest common denominator. Small wonder so much of it is slow and breaks easily.

Want better interfaces or input recognition? Insist your users start to act a little smarter - and tell the dummies to shop elsewhere.

Not very PC of me...

But I can live with that.  8)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Edvard on August 01, 2011, 11:34 AM

Well here's something Android has that iWhatever doesn't...
Sentience! (http://forums.androidcentral.com/droid-bionic/104291-eradicate-insanity-i-arrive.html)
(I know it's on a Motorola phone, not a tablet device, but it's entertaining nonetheless...)
3 days to go!!

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on August 01, 2011, 11:55 AM

My options were to either finger the thing or try talking to it.

-Stoic Joker (August 01, 2011, 07:04 AM)

Ummm... did you buy it dinner first?  :-[

Well here's something Android has that iWhatever doesn't...
Sentience! (http://forums.androidcentral.com/droid-bionic/104291-eradicate-insanity-i-arrive.html)
(I know it's on a Motorola phone, not a tablet device, but it's entertaining nonetheless...)
3 days to go!!

-Edvard (August 01, 2011, 11:34 AM)

Hmmm... it seems that it's a sentient troll or something.  It's already been banned.  ;D

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Stoic Joker on August 01, 2011, 02:55 PM

My options were to either finger the thing or try talking to it.

-Stoic Joker (August 01, 2011, 07:04 AM)

Ummm... did you buy it dinner first?  :-[

-wraith808 (August 01, 2011, 11:55 AM)

Nope, went straight for a quicky and ended up frustrating both of us. But is ain't my fault the moody bitch wasn't ready on command.


( :-\ ...too far?)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: wraith808 on August 01, 2011, 03:25 PM

My options were to either finger the thing or try talking to it.

-Stoic Joker (August 01, 2011, 07:04 AM)

Ummm... did you buy it dinner first?  :-[

-wraith808 (August 01, 2011, 11:55 AM)

Nope, went straight for a quicky and ended up frustrating both of us. But is ain't my fault the moody bitch wasn't ready on command.


( :-\ ...too far?)

-Stoic Joker (August 01, 2011, 02:55 PM)

I think that line was sprinted over.  ;D

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Shades on August 01, 2011, 04:32 PM

maybe even a bit pre-mature...   :P

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: 40hz on August 01, 2011, 04:59 PM

My GF just smiled and rolled her eyes.  ;D :P

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: tsaint on August 01, 2011, 05:14 PM

I always find it amusing that the Palm Pilot figured out the handwriting issue ages ago with its Grafiti alphabet and interface - and nobody has brought it over to any of the new tablets or smartphones.

-40hz (August 01, 2011, 07:40 AM)

Graffiti is available for androids. .... I use it on a desire hd (works good) and installed it on my android tablet (don't like it so much)

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Edvard on August 01, 2011, 10:33 PM

Apparently Graffiti is available for many platforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_%28Palm_OS%29

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on September 26, 2011, 04:58 PM

Well guys, check this out:
At work, I've been assigned to play with our new tablets.  Since I already have an ipad and am bored with it, I decided to get my hands on the androids.  So I'm playing around with the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 and the ASus eee pad transformer.

Anything you guys would like to know?

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Ath on September 26, 2011, 06:02 PM

Anything you guys would like to know?

-superboyac (September 26, 2011, 04:58 PM)

Yeah, do the Samsung and/or Asus feel as 'fluent' as the iPad, in normal use?

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: phitsc on September 27, 2011, 02:02 AM

Anything you guys would like to know?

-superboyac (September 26, 2011, 04:58 PM)

Yeah, how long until you got bored with the iPad? :D

I'm still without a tablet and was waiting for the Galaxy 10.1 (it's still not available in Switzerland, like I anticipated here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25577.msg256897#msg256897). It's now scheduled for sometime in October). Actually, the iPad is now becoming an option for me again, as soon as iOS 5 is out, the reason being that it will then be possible to use it as a standalone device (don't want iTunes).

What's your opinion about the Samsung's performance (in terms of fluency of operation, starting apps, etc.) compared to the iPad?

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on September 27, 2011, 09:06 AM

Anything you guys would like to know?

-superboyac (September 26, 2011, 04:58 PM)

Yeah, do the Samsung and/or Asus feel as 'fluent' as the iPad, in normal use?

-Ath (September 26, 2011, 06:02 PM)

No, definitely not.  It's obvious that it's a more complicated interface.  If you are not a computer person (i.e. you would call someone if you're internet wasn't working, etc.) you will very easily get lost in these Android interfaces.  The swiping effects are significantly less fluid than an ipad.  All that touch stuff is less responsive than the ipad, which is like uber-responsive.  I'm saying it, the touch effects of the ipad is perfect...I really have no complaints about it.

That being said, it's not that bad.  If you consider all the advantages you get with Android, like, well, freedom...it's really a toss up.  Freedom vs. feels awesome to use.  I mean, at least I can connect to my pc and transfer files back and forth and use those files in whatever app I choose.  To do the same on the ipad requires all sorts of workarounds and jailbreaking.

But for me, if I were to buy one today, I'd choose the Samsung over the ipad.  But I'm really hoping for a nice Windows tablet.  However, if Windows and Apple continue to go down the roads they are going, I may just switch over to Linux.  but if that is too harsh of a change for me, I may just give up on computing and software as a passion and focus on other things.  It's the freedom I want, but not without the modern conveniences.  If the only way to get freedom is to open a command line, I'm done with computers.  Then it's just an appliance to me.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on September 28, 2011, 08:46 AM

I have the Transformer and am generally pleased with it. I bought it with the keyboard dock, but would have preferred it to the Sammy even without for the simple reason that it has a number of expansion ports and HDMI out. The Samsung is gorgeous, thin, and light, but there are no expansion ports save the proprietary Samsung port that charges the unit and is able to receive adapters a la the iPad. The Samsung keyboard dock adds nothing to the unit beyond the keyboard; the Transformer keyboard adds a trackpad, 2 USB ports, a full SD/MMC port and an extra battery. I paid $496 for the combo; the same capacity Samsung without the keyboard retails for $499 here and the keyboard is an accessory I haven't seen in stores but which is $80 on the Samsung site. The HDTV dongle is $40 and the USB host dongle another $40. I have played with the Tab in stores alongside the other tablets and it seems pretty comparable in performance. The one unique thing about the Samsung offering, to my mind, is what they've done with Honeycomb. Almost none of the other tablet makers have done much to skin Honeycomb but Samsung has made some changes/improvements that I like.

I think if I wanted a straight consumer device, I'd probably have gone with the galaxy because of its dimensions and weight. However, my Transformer fills that role when undocked very nicely. It's certainly comparable to other Android tablets in terms of form factor and comfort (I've also used for extended periods the Xoom and the Acer A500 and W500). i suspect the Samsung is a step above and beyond these though due to its ergonomics (again, weight and thickness). Superboyac is in a much better position to comment on this, though.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: xtabber on September 28, 2011, 01:50 PM

The main advantage of the Samsung is the thin and light form factor, and in that regard, the 8.9 sounds like a better choice when it becomes available, with the same or better capabilities and screen resolution in a slightly smaller package, weighing less than 1 lb.

For my part, I decided to order a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet (32GB).  It is certainly bigger and heavier than the Samsung 10.1, but it includes a full sized USB 2.0 port that supports input devices, flash drives and external hard disks,  a full sized SD card slot for memory expansion, and a digitizer pen that works across applications, in addition to HDMI and the usual micro USB.  A  folio case with a full ThinkPad keyboard is available for $100, although I did not order that at this time.

Lenovo has also substantially added to the stock Android interface, with a customizable fast app launcher, file manager (for attached storage, including through the USB port) and expanded settings. They also include some additional software like a full version of Documents to Go.

One thing that gives me comfort is that, like all other Think brand hardware, a full hardware maintenance manual can be downloaded from the Lenovo support site.  I'm one of those people who likes to know I can take something apart and put it back together, even if I may never actually need to do so.

I expect it to arrive next week and will give my impressions after I get to play with it for a while.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on September 29, 2011, 09:36 AM

Everything Darwin says is pretty much right on.  There is a poweruser aspect to the Asus that I find attractive.  The Samsung is more of an ipad competitor in looks than anything else.  The Asus also has a larger "rooting" community which is cool, since I'm trying to root it and update the Android OS to the latest version, which is supposed to be much faster and responsive.  The Asus seems to be the best bang for teh buck at this point.

Still, these tablets are just not powerful enough for me.  I need to be able to interface more easily with my desktop applications.  I'd like to have a Windows tablet, really.  The rooters have been able to install Ubuntu on the ASus, so I may try that also.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on September 30, 2011, 11:45 AM

100% agree with Superboyac - I am waiting with great hope and high expetcations for the next generation of Windows tablets running Windows 8. Android is frustrating because I can see the potential but the usability/power just isn't there yet.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: superboyac on September 30, 2011, 12:40 PM

I was going to bring the transformer home and play with it this weekend, but decided against it! ;D

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Lutz_ on September 30, 2011, 02:00 PM

I hope that the next "Transfomer" won't be this brownish ugly.   :(  >:(  :(

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Darwin on September 30, 2011, 04:19 PM

I hope that the next "Transfomer" won't be this brownish ugly.   :(  >:(  :(

-Lutz_ (September 30, 2011, 02:00 PM)

It's not *that* bad in the flesh... OK, it's not great, but it's bearable. Regarding the Transformer 2, given that the existing keyboard dock is supposed to be compatible with the Transformer 2 tablet, I'd be surprised if they deviate too much from the current colour scheme...

Regarding the Transformer, I just received a FW update that includes a new notetaking app from Asus. Haven't tried it yet but will do so now.

Title: Re: Android tablets to rival iPad
Post by: Curt on July 24, 2012, 01:55 PM

[deleted because I didn't notice from the beginning the proper date it first was launched]

But when I am at it, Samsung Galaxy Note version 2 has been launched:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

http://www.coolpctips.com/2012/07/samsung-galaxy-note-2-reveal-on-august-15/