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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: mwb1100 on December 09, 2012, 10:22 PM

Title: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on December 09, 2012, 10:22 PM
I've just heard about a utility that claims to increase the efficiency of Windows's native NTFS compression.  I'm mildly interested in this because I have a fair bit of stuff that can be usefully compressed (such as C header files and libraries - they're write once, compressible, and take up a lot of space if you have many compilers/SDKs/toolkits).

  - http://www.magicrar.com/drive-press.html

I'm curious about this software because of some of the claims made on an older site by the vendor:

All software has bugs...even Windows!

MagicRAR Drive Press uses safe, proven NTFS compression to increase your disk capacity.

But it outperforms Windows significantly! How is this possible, since both use NTFS compression?

It's a bug in the Windows drive conversion routine, which misses files that are completely safe to compress. First introduced in the problematic Windows Vista version, this bug renders a significant portion of your hard disks incompressible - even on the newer Windows 7 and Windows 8 versions! Take a look at the evidence we have collected below and see for yourself how MagicRAR Drive Press exceeds Windows's own compression, while using time-tested, proven, and completely safe, reversible NTFS compression as its underlying storage medium. And because Drive Press is multi-core and SSD capable, it will also convert your drives in a fraction of the time it would take Windows to do so. More storage and faster processing - now that's a win-win proposition!
-http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EL3b2dEehRkJ:howtocompressfiles.org/drive-press.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

This kind of feels like either snake-oil or maybe a registry setting that can be set without any special software. But I'd like to know more.

Does anyone have any experience with this software?  

Any  better information on how it works or what the mentioned bug in the Windows drive compression routine is?
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: superboyac on December 09, 2012, 11:56 PM
I have zero facts for what I'm about to say...

I'd only use something like this as a last resort or on a device I cared nothing about if it exploded or got stolen tomorrow morning.  For anything more important than that, I'd buy additional storage before doing anything like this.  I also avoid compression as much as practically possible.  But I am admittedly more than slightly paranoid about such things.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on December 10, 2012, 02:52 AM
I'd only use something like this as a last resort or on a device I cared nothing about if it exploded or got stolen tomorrow morning.  For anything more important than that, I'd buy additional storage before doing anything like this.  I also avoid compression as much as practically possible.  But I am admittedly more than slightly paranoid about such things.

I've never been bitten by any problem with NTFS compression (though I understand that Home Server had a bug in it's backup system when interacting with some compressed files).  Something I read about the 'Drive Press' thing lead me to believe that the actual compression used was the native NTFS encryption (so even if the Drive Press software were removed, the files would be handled just fine by the NTFS driver).  However, I'll need to dig around to locate what made me think that - I still haven't actually tried the software, mainly because of paranoia a bit similar, if not quite as intense, to yours. 

However, I may still test it out sometime (maybe I'm not paranoid enough),and I'm curious if anyone else knows anything about the software (or the bug it 'fixes').
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on December 10, 2012, 03:27 AM
Haven't looked at it, but my snake-oil alarm bells are making a lot of noise - and trying to cash in on the RAR brand while having no technical relation to it definitely doesn't help (the text you pasted says NTFS compression).
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on December 10, 2012, 03:34 AM
Just to be clear, the 'Drive Press' thing is part of a larger product, which is a full-blown shell integration archiver tool (ie., it makes archives look like folders in explorer).  It does apparently support RAR archives, but otherwise is not associated (as far as I know) with the outfit that makes WinRAR.  So your point about it cashing in on the RAR brand is well taken.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on December 10, 2012, 03:41 AM
I've browsed through the site - it's very fluffy, full of marketing hyperbole but low on actual information. Again, extremely typical of snake-oil crap. Made me feel like hitting somebody with a baseball bat, guess I should have another cup of morning coffee ;)

Most of their claims sound like complete crap to me. My guess (just a gut feeling, not verified) is that their drive compression boasting is something along the lines of... when selecting "Compress this drive to save disk space", Windows doesn't select every file and folder by default (I'd guess it skips %WinDir% and other locations), whereas MagicRAR probably goes gung-ho on the entire partition. How im-pres-si-ve. And using a term like "SSD optimized" for simply calling the built-in NTFS compression routines from multiple threads? *facepalm*.

I'd stay very, very, very clean of this piece of software and the people behind it.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Stoic Joker on December 10, 2012, 09:03 AM
Just thinking out loud here...
This is the amount of free space available on a brand-new Windows 8 Professional computer.
 Windows will compress this drive when you check the "Compress this drive" box.

The default Windows compression is date based, so that currently new and frequently used files don't incur any (compression/decompression) overhead. This of easily seen in the drive cleanup utility where the checkbox to enable says "compress old files to save disk space". That and wandering through the file system in detail view will show that only the files with older dates are blue (signifying they are compressed).

As an example (because the same dates are being used), if anyone has used a defrag utility that arranges the files based on frequency of access. When you run it on a fresh install with a 30 day window ... Everything on the machine is marked as new.

So if they're using a brand new freshly installed computer...it's not going to have a lot of old files making their demonstration (complete BS) a bit of a loaded dice game.

Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Renegade on December 10, 2012, 09:43 AM
System software just scares me... If it conks out, god only knows what can happen. I prefer to rely on the basics and some very well trusted tools that have been vetted over and over again. e.g. SysInternals.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: vlastimil on December 10, 2012, 11:27 AM
Agree with f0dder. The software probably does nothing else than force the compression flag on all files, even on those, where it would make no sense (fixing this "bug"). mwb1100, you mentioned, you want to compress specific files - just go ahead and enable NTFS compression for them (or for the folder they are in) - you don't need that software to do that for you.

The NTFS compression is rather conservative and sometimes it really does not make sense to enable it. It has different priorities than zip or rar. The compressed files must be easily and quickly modifiable and provide random access. The files are divided into compression units of 16 clusters (1 cluster is typically 4kB) and compression occurs only if it would reduce the size of the unit by at least the size of 1 cluster. For some files, it never happens and attempting the compression only wastes time. For small files that fit into a single cluster, the compression may also bring no benefit.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on December 10, 2012, 11:32 AM
System software just scares me... If it conks out, god only knows what can happen. I prefer to rely on the basics and some very well trusted tools that have been vetted over and over again. e.g. SysInternals.
I wouldn't label MagicRAR as "system software" - from their marketing fluff, I'd conclude that the developers aren't too skilled, and are simply using the built-in NTFS compression (calling DeviceIoControl with FSCTL_SET_COMPRESSION). That's the same thing that happens if you enable compression on the file properties dialog box.

It's also not a super smart thing to do on a whole volume, it can add a fair amount of file fragmentation especially on files that are often modified... and I definitely wouldn't do it on an SSD (even if the space savings might seem juicy on those small drives) - both because it can end up causing a lot more disk writes than uncompressed access, but also because some SSD controllers do their own compression (SandForce, for instance).
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on December 10, 2012, 01:17 PM
My guess (just a gut feeling, not verified) is that their drive compression boasting is something along the lines of... when selecting "Compress this drive to save disk space", Windows doesn't select every file and folder by default (I'd guess it skips %WinDir% and other locations), whereas MagicRAR probably goes gung-ho on the entire partition.

This sounds like a good guess.

I think I'll follow everyone's advice and just forget about this.  Except I might run a test in a VM sometime to see if f0dder's theory is right.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on December 10, 2012, 02:05 PM
Somehow I'm reminded of this (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=9816.0) - it's the same kind of weazly snake-oil marketing. Except this MagicRAR thing seems even more scummy :)
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on December 10, 2012, 03:58 PM
I had completely forgotten about that thread. I wonder if Josh ever got a response to his refund request...
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 07, 2013, 01:00 PM
I've just heard about a utility that claims to increase the efficiency of Windows's native NTFS compression.  I'm mildly interested in this because I have a fair bit of stuff that can be usefully compressed (such as C header files and libraries - they're write once, compressible, and take up a lot of space if you have many compilers/SDKs/toolkits).

  - http://www.magicrar.com/drive-press.html

I'm curious about this software because of some of the claims made on an older site by the vendor:

All software has bugs...even Windows!

MagicRAR Drive Press uses safe, proven NTFS compression to increase your disk capacity.

But it outperforms Windows significantly! How is this possible, since both use NTFS compression?

It's a bug in the Windows drive conversion routine, which misses files that are completely safe to compress. First introduced in the problematic Windows Vista version, this bug renders a significant portion of your hard disks incompressible - even on the newer Windows 7 and Windows 8 versions! Take a look at the evidence we have collected below and see for yourself how MagicRAR Drive Press exceeds Windows's own compression, while using time-tested, proven, and completely safe, reversible NTFS compression as its underlying storage medium. And because Drive Press is multi-core and SSD capable, it will also convert your drives in a fraction of the time it would take Windows to do so. More storage and faster processing - now that's a win-win proposition!
-http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EL3b2dEehRkJ:howtocompressfiles.org/drive-press.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

This kind of feels like either snake-oil or maybe a registry setting that can be set without any special software. But I'd like to know more.

Does anyone have any experience with this software?  

Any  better information on how it works or what the mentioned bug in the Windows drive compression routine is?

As the publisher of this software (Simon King), I am thoroughly appalled by the extent of bias and judgmentalism your question has elicited.

None of the responses are based in fact, and it is painfully clear that none of the responders bothered to check any of their claims. It is obvious that none of them even bothered to install the software before smearing it and accusing me of being a con artist.

All of this makes me wonder if this is some kind of FUD campaign from the competition. I will now proceed to rip apart all of the factually inaccurate and wantonly biased responses one by one for your benefit and that of any other readers.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 07, 2013, 01:30 PM
1. The Product Name

Unfortunately, the domains magiczip and zipmagic were both taken. So was rarmagic, but magicrar was available. Since the product's shell namespace integration is unique, there was no clearer way to communicate this than to append or prepend the phrase "magic" to one of the most commonly recognized archive formats. There are countless utilities with the name ZIP, and by your reasoning you should go and flame them as well for cashing in on the "ZIP brand".

2. Allegations of Marketing Hyperbole

If you actually bother to leave your openly admitted and apparently intense paranoia aside for a moment, and actually install the product, you will find that each claim is based on fact and is entirely accurate. Heavens forbid, you may even like the product! Moreover, the extensive benefits described on the product page are mostly unique (with perhaps just one or two exceptions). Are you able to counter this claim based on fact and not your own paranoid FUD hyperbole? It is astounding that you are engaged in the exact same thing you are accusing MagicRAR of doing.

3. "Windows doesn't select every file and folder by default"

False. There is simply no mechanism in the Windows shell to force Windows to compress all files that are actually safe to compress, even if you have actually selected everything. Period. You can keep trying and you will see that Drive Press will always compress better - gigabytes better - when you reprocess the drive with Drive Press.

4. "Simply calling the built-in NTFS compression routines from multiple threads"

False. There are significant engineering challenges in building safely multi-threaded software that are also load-balanced. You could manually try to compress folders and files using more than one instance of the Windows shell, but it will be simply impossible for you to do load balancing, such that each thread will end up at the approximate same time. This means you will sit around waiting - and apparently whining - when Drive Press would have already done the job for you.

5. "The default Windows compression is date based"

False. The "Default Windows Compression" you are referring to is in the Disk Cleanup utility, which actually archives files that are rarely used. The compression Drive Press actually does is full disk, transparent, on-the-fly NTFS (de)compression. What you are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with NTFS compression.

6. "The software probably does nothing else than force the compression flag on all files, even on those, where it would make no sense"

False. If you indiscriminately compress all files on your computer, you will actually end up with an unbootable system. Drive Press is completely safe to use and will not compress files that will jeopardize your operating system's integrity or ability to boot.

7. "From their marketing fluff, I'd conclude that the developers aren't too skilled"

Thank you for sharing your marketing insights. Does it occur to you that no archive utility at all features shell namespace extension technology? Is that because their developers are so much more highly skilled than ours, to the extent that they cannot be bothered to come out of their coder's nirvana, trying to achieve a completely undocumented, extremely difficult level of integration with the Windows shell?

8. "because some SSD controllers do their own compression"

False. The SandForce compression you are referring to is not at the file system level. Meaning, it will not actually give you any additional space on disk. With Drive Press, you actually get additional space on disk. I agree that this may stress SandForce based SSDs when they are unable to re-compress the raw data they receive from the OS...but that is something you will need to take up with the drive manufacturers. If a SandForce drive crashes when it has too much compressed data, do you blame the compression software - that runs fine on every other drive - or SandForce for making a loose assumption which you have just violated? In fact, I would strongly recommend all SSD users to avoid SandForce drives because they are extremely brittle under atypical, non-consumer loads. What this means for YOU, the consumer, is that your drive may randomly fail after years of apparently "successful" operation - at the worst possible time of course. That's a real concern you *should* be getting paranoid about.

9. "Somehow I'm reminded of this"

MagicRAR has nothing to do with that company, period.

10. Conclusion

You are free to drink the kool-aid of the competition and attack MagicRAR with FUD. The fact remains that none of you have even bothered to try the software, in addition to the many factual inaccuracies in your posts above which I have ripped apart to shreds above. We all at MagicRAR have worked very hard to bring you genuine innovation - but apparently you are so brainwashed by the existing brands which have been selling you essentially the same tools for over a decade, that you cannot possibly conceive of actually having something better - save recognize when it is actually delivered.




See here (http://www.magicrar.com/tomshardware.asp) for discussion on Tom's Hardware of using MagicRar to improve SSD performance.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Jibz on January 07, 2013, 03:08 PM
I am sure mouser will comment on this soon, but let me just say that it's nice to see the author commenting here :up:.

Looking over this thread, it seems like the people who commented were mostly regulars (1k+ posts) and certainly not to my knowledge affiliated with any "competitors". What you have seen here, I think, is the gut reaction of people who have been working with software for a long time, and who have seen a terrible lot of "bootstrap sites" claiming to do "magic" :-[.

Now I have not tried your software, and I have no idea how it works, so I can in no way comment on the technical merits of it -- but please understand that they are not trying to spread FUD, but merely telling people to be cautious when it comes to "magic" on computers. If you've seen the amount of banner ads that claim to clean your computer and make it faster by "magic", you know that this is generally speaking good advice :Thmbsup:.

At any rate, I think it is great that you found your way here, now we can (hopefully) have a real discussion about your software.

As I said, I haven't been a part of this discussion, and I haven't tried your software so I cannot comment on it -- however, I do feel I can make a comment about point 1:

1. The Product Name

Unfortunately, the domains magiczip and zipmagic were both taken. So was rarmagic, but magicrar was available. Since the product's shell namespace integration is unique, there was no clearer way to communicate this than to append or prepend the phrase "magic" to one of the most commonly recognized archive formats. There are countless utilities with the name ZIP, and by your reasoning you should go and flame them as well for cashing in on the "ZIP brand".

Zip is an open standard (and has been for a long time), which anybody can implement. Rar on the other hand is proprietary software. I would say calling your software MagicZip is akin to calling your stylesheet editor MagicCSS, or your image viewer MagicJPG. I.e. there is no commercial interest behind the "ZIP brand" anymore (if you call your software MagicWinZip on the other hand .. ;D).

I assume you have somehow cleared your use of the name with the people behind Rar -- it doesn't look like you licensed their compression technology, but rather use WinRAR as a plugin if installed?
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on January 07, 2013, 03:30 PM
simonking, Firstly, welcome to DonationCoder,

I was going to make a statement on here, but the following summed it up perfectly for me:

Looking over this thread, it seems like the people who commented were mostly regulars (1k+ posts) and certainly not to my knowledge affiliated with any "competitors". What you have seen here, I think, is the gut reaction of people who have been working with software for a long time, and who have seen a terrible lot of "bootstrap sites" claiming to do "magic" .
-Jibz

Here at DonationCoder, we do not create unwarranted FUD.  From a quick look at some of the posts on this thread, all I see is slight scepticism about software that claims to do 'Magic'

Like Jibs also mentioned, everybody here, including yourself, simonking, has, at some point, been attacked by popups claiming to make your internet faster, make your computer faster, or make your registry more efficient, by working nothing but magic on them.  This is why, when we see the word 'magic' we can be slightly...worried by it.

Your input is greatly appreciated, and will go a long way towards helping people understand your product.

One last note:

10. Conclusion

You are free to drink the kool-aid of the competition and attack MagicRAR with FUD. The fact remains that none of you have even bothered to try the software, in addition to the many factual inaccuracies in your posts above which I have ripped apart to shreds above. We all at MagicRAR have worked very hard to bring you genuine innovation - but apparently you are so brainwashed by the existing brands which have been selling you essentially the same tools for over a decade, that you cannot possibly conceive of actually having something better - save recognize when it is actually delivered.

Statements like you have put above, will simply turn people away.  You seem very arrogant, and instead of simply being polite, and explaining why we where false to assume X and didn't understand Y, you chose to assume that we here, simply posted all these comments, in order for Search Engines to index bad comments about you (Which, I assume, is how you found this in the first place).

Look at some of our other posts here, and you will see, that we actually go into some serious discussion, and even though we can start out being very blunt about our initial findings, once somebody decides "Well...I shall go try this out in VMWare", we then get a USER perspective.

You can trust me when I say, any FUD, or unwarranted bashing of a company, is not, has never been, and never will be, tolerated here at DonationCoder.com
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 07, 2013, 03:51 PM
Oh, astroturfing - welcome to the fun :)

#1 - "I couldn't cash in on the ZIP name, so I decided to cash in on the RAR name" - even though you have no association to RAR. And as Jibz said, ZIP is an open standard (as well as being an ubiquitous term), you can't compare the two. Did it ever occur to you that you could have come up with an original product/brand name?

#2 - I might actually take a look at your product. Rather think it could be funny ripping it apart. Who knows, I might be surprised, but I have my doubts.

#3 - it's hardly rocket science composing a list of files that are unsafe to enable NTFS compression for.

#4 - why would I go through shell code to apply NTFS compression to files? Oh sure, there's some potential load balancing (CPU as well as disk I/O) that can help with speed. But why would I bother with "finishing threads at the same time"? Where does "safely" enter the picture, considering compression is handled at a very low level of NTFS? Fire up a bunch of threads, feed threads producer/consumer style, do DeviceIoControl(FSCTL_SET_COMPRESSION). Possibly apply some balancing. Magic? Hardly. Still using bog-standard NTFS features that have been with us since forever. If you were doing anything but that, you'd be listing patent numbers on your website.

#5 - (Stoic Joker's point, not mine) - date base compression. Yes, the disk clenaup utility, just like he said - it will offer to compress old files, based on... whoa... date. That's the way "normal users" would come in contact with NTFS compression.

#6 - (Vlastimil's point, not mine) "no sense" - I'm pretty sure his point is files that aren't compressible, not files that are dangerous to compress (hibernation and the core loader files read by the NTFS minidriver which doesn't support compression). If you just go gung-ho on the filesystem, you waste a lot of CPU time processing  incompressible or very-little-comrpessible files, along with possibly adding massive fragmentation overhead.

#7 - <flame>I'm pretty sure I briefly used an archiver back in the Win9x days that was implemented through shell namespace, but who cares? Normal users have their zip folders, the rest of use proper standalone apps that Don't Suck(TM).</flame>

#8 - no, the sandforce controllers compress at the block level - this affects read and write speed, as well as reduce the free space available for wear levelling. And even for non-compressing SSD chipsets, the fragmentation (often) caused by NTFS compression will have negative effects on the block erases and writes. I sure as hell wouldn't NTFS compress anything but read-only data on any of my SSDs. As for avoiding sandforce, whatever - even Intel uses them now. And all SSD manufacturers have had their flakes-outs, that's just how it is with that technology at the moment.

#9 - except for the same "ZOMG WE ARE REVOLUTIONARY (but no content)" kind of marketing.

#10 - I have nothing to do with your competition. Or well, I don't think so, I honestly have no idea who they are. (I'm a regular user of 7-zip and the WinRAR, that's as far as 'affiliations' go - and I hate snake-oil and marketing that cashes in on other people's work, but that's a general personal trait of mine.)

(Yeah, I'm grumpy, and neither my caffeine deficiency nor your tone helped.)
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 07, 2013, 04:16 PM
You can trust me when I say, any FUD, or unwarranted bashing of a company, is not, has never been, and never will be, tolerated here at DonationCoder.com

That's nice of you to make an effort, but clearly you are failing. Simply based on the name "magic" a significant number of your senior posters have ridiculed a terrific piece of engineering without even bothering to fire up VMware for it, by their own admitted paranoia.

The poster f0dder continues to spread technical falsehoods in a desperate effort to protect his or her continuing strawman arguments. Are you seriously surprised that this kind of attitude draws a strong reaction? What were you thinking?

I have privately emailed mauser that it is not a reasonable expectation for any poster here to ask MagicRAR to reveal any of our intellectual property - whether it has been patented or not - as these are our trade secrets. I find it necessary to reiterate that claim here.

If you have an open mind and are actually willing to try the software and offer feedback to help make it better, I would be delighted to receive your input. Otherwise, my job here is done.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on January 07, 2013, 04:42 PM
You can trust me when I say, any FUD, or unwarranted bashing of a company, is not, has never been, and never will be, tolerated here at DonationCoder.com

That's nice of you to make an effort, but clearly you are failing. Simply based on the name "magic" a significant number of your senior posters have ridiculed a terrific piece of engineering without even bothering to fire up VMware for it, by their own admitted paranoia.

The poster f0dder continues to spread technical falsehoods in a desperate effort to protect his or her continuing strawman arguments. Are you seriously surprised that this kind of attitude draws a strong reaction? What were you thinking?

I have privately emailed mauser that it is not a reasonable expectation for any poster here to ask MagicRAR to reveal any of our intellectual property - whether it has been patented or not - as these are our trade secrets. I find it necessary to reiterate that claim here.

If you have an open mind and are actually willing to try the software and offer feedback to help make it better, I would be delighted to receive your input. Otherwise, my job here is done.

Personally, I have zero use for this type of software, and have no intention of trying it out.  I simply weighed in my 2cents on what is happening here.

By the way. coming onto this forum, with the attitude "We are awesome and don't need to answer to you"

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/29011204.jpg)

If you want to have a civilized discussion, then feel free to stay, and answer any questions or worries we have.
/me is out.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 08, 2013, 03:22 AM
The poster f0dder continues to spread technical falsehoods in a desperate effort to protect his or her continuing strawman arguments. Are you seriously surprised that this kind of attitude draws a strong reaction? What were you thinking?

I have privately emailed mauser that it is not a reasonable expectation for any poster here to ask MagicRAR to reveal any of our intellectual property - whether it has been patented or not - as these are our trade secrets. I find it necessary to reiterate that claim here.
Move along, people, nothing to see here - snake-oil salesman passing through.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mouser on January 08, 2013, 10:56 AM
Let's try to keep things civil here ok?

I want to remind all of us that our policy here is to let everyone have their fair say in a respectful manner -- there is no need to resort to personal attacks or name calling.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 10, 2013, 01:28 PM
We have been discussing the situation for a few days, and I believe we have found the optimal solution for everyone involved.

In the spirit of showing that we really do believe in our software, and the technology behind it, I'd like to offer anyone who wants to test and compare our tool the MagicRAR Drive Press Challenge (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=33638.0)!

We're giving away a fully unrestricted version of MagicRAR Drive Press for absolutely free, for one week only - so everybody can make up their own mind about the software. If anybody manages to match or beat MagicRAR Drive Press's compression, per the terms of the MagicRAR Drive Press Challenge, they earn a free copy of MagicRAR!
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mouser on January 10, 2013, 01:33 PM
I've posted on the other thread too, but I just wanted to add here that I do applaud this as a positive and constructive step.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 11, 2013, 01:57 AM
I've posted on the other thread too, but I just wanted to add here that I do applaud this as a positive and constructive step.
I'd rather see some of the points put forth in this thread be answered, instead of met with aggressive hand-waving.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: cranioscopical on January 11, 2013, 08:29 PM
By the way. coming onto this forum, with the attitude "We are awesome and don't need to answer to you"
You're going to have a bad time.
-Stephen66515

Gee. I take profound exception to that!
Please be sure to understand that you're not speaking for everyone here and, if you thing you're speaking on behalf of DonationCoder, I suggest that you 'moderate' your own tone.
 


Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on January 11, 2013, 09:42 PM
Cranio, I will PM you in regards to this.  I do not wish this topic to get de-railed again. 

(I will be changing my forum sig, to state, that all my posts, and comments, are my own personal opinion)
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: wraith808 on January 11, 2013, 09:50 PM
Cranio, I will PM you in regards to this.  I do not wish this topic to get de-railed again. 

(I will be changing my forum sig, to state, that all my posts, and comments, are my own personal opinion)

That won't necessarily have the desired effect- the Global Moderator tag speaks louder than any .sig
/me shrugs
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on January 11, 2013, 09:52 PM
Actually, screw it...y'all can see my statement on this...

<Unofficial Personal Statement>
I don't want that thread getting out of hand again.

I make no intention to speak on behalf of DonationCoder as a whole...people here have loud enough voices to speak for themselves.

I chose to opt-out of that discussion after discussing with mouser, my motivations for posting what I posted, of which, he forwarded to the Developer (Or sales guy...dunno which he was to be honest.) - and which resulted in an amicable result where he offered a free trial of his software so people could try it out.

If you noticed, mouser posted that he wanted to get the thread back on track, and I had already pointed out that I had no intention of posting there again, so, I didn't really appreciate having to go back there, especially for this purpose.

-Stephen66515
</Unofficial Personal Statement>



Now that is cleared up, I hope this thread can actually get back on topic.  Please do not continue de-railing.  If you have any questions that are unrelated to this, please PM the person you want to speak to...if you want to ignore me, ignore me...if you have a problem with what I have said, PM me.  

I will no longer be monitoring this thread for ANY purpose.
/me is out.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 14, 2013, 09:35 AM
I've posted some preliminary findings (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=33638.msg314401#msg314401).

TL;DR: it doesn't do anything magical (it's DeviceIoControlFSCTL_SET_COMPRESSION) just as I expected), and as I expected it does indeed go gung-ho on your partition - temporarily disabling NTFS security while doing so. Does end up with (quite a fair bit) more compressed files than you get by ticking Windows' "compress this drive", but it's also leaves you with heavily fragmented and really can't be recommended for SSDs.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 15, 2013, 03:06 AM
I am really glad you have finally had a chance to try the software, and establish in fact, that despite being based on safe and proven NTFS compression, it still manages to significantly outperform Windows itself.

As you have now seen for yourself, none of our claims are false and the product works exactly as it is being marketed. While I would welcome an apology from you, I happily accept all your time spent researching, as well as your accurate report of your findings, in its stead. Thank you for being open minded!

Please note that fragmentation is not an issue for SSDs due to zero impact on random access times throughout the disk. Most people with mechanical drives would not need a drive compressor anyways these days, since mechanical drive space is ample. This is why I project that the main beneficiaries of MagicRAR's Drive Press would be SSD users who are still paying a premium for space. But nothing stops mechanical drive users from enjoying it (http://blog.sthapatya.in/?p=94) either, if they need more room.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 15, 2013, 06:39 AM
As you have now seen for yourself, none of our claims are false and the product works exactly as it is being marketed. While I would welcome an apology from you, I happily accept all your time spent researching, as well as your accurate report of your findings, in its stead. Thank you for being open minded!
1) you claim Windows is buggy - this is false.
2) All my statements before testing were correct, so there's nothing to apologize for - and considering your own tone, I will not even apologize for the language I've used.

Please note that fragmentation is not an issue for SSDs due to zero impact on random access times throughout the disk.
SSDs have vastly better random I/O characteristic than HDDs, but you still incur overhead from fragmentation - claiming anything else is bullshit, and easily verifiable by checking benchmarks of sequential vs. random I/O. I'm not worried about performance, though, but the other problems compression & fragmentation poses for SSDs.

First, you should read up on write vs. erase block sizes, wear leveling algorithms, and how various SSD controllers optimize - the TL;DR version is 1) that you do want to minimize small & scattered writes (hint: write-block sizes are larger than on HDDs, and there's the even-larger erase-block sizes to consider as well). And 2) for a several SSD controllers, compressed data both means lower speed and worse wear-leveling.

Second, you should read up on how NTFS compression is implemented. (TL;DR: for 4k cluster size, compression is done in 64kb chunks). It means a lot more fragmentation - by design. Now, imagine what happens if you change data in the middle of a compressed chunk? Just how the split is done depends on the compressibility of the data you're writing, but there's a decent chance you end up needing to allocate two chunks - which will cause extra fragmentation, and will turn a possibly perfect-eraseblock-aligned write into several eraseblock-updates. Oops, you've just reduced the lifetime of the SSD a bit more than necessary.

And while the filesystem fragmentation is already bad after initial compression (531k excess fragments for a tiny 134k filesystem, ouch!), it's only going to get worse over time.

I've yet to check what happens when you enable compression for tiny files (MFT-resident data) - I'll take a look at that when I get home from work. But if turning on compression for tiny files means they're moved non-resident, you're adding a lot of additional waste. From the list of uncompressed files are running DrivePress, it seems like you go gung-ho and indiscriminately compress everything on the filesystem (apart from those few folders that you can't access, and the very few boot-related files in your protection list).
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 15, 2013, 08:42 AM
I believe you have already seen for yourself (and shown everybody) the bug in Windows I am referring to.

You have also disproven virtually all of your initial statements with your research. You did this, not me - thank you.

I would also refrain from spreading FUD about NTFS compression itself, to which you seem to have shifted your targets.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: tomos on January 15, 2013, 09:09 AM
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.

Anyone who reads the thread at this stage can see enough to decide whether they want to use the product or not.
A Big Thank You to f0dder, for all the brilliant research :up:

:Wizard:
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: wraith808 on January 15, 2013, 10:11 AM
^ +1 and well said!  :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Josh on January 15, 2013, 10:13 AM
All,

Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Jibz on January 15, 2013, 10:25 AM
I agree; if this discussion is just turning into free advertisement space, it is not worth the time :up:.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on January 15, 2013, 10:55 AM
I said I was not monitoring this thread...Well, after numerous posts here, a few complaints, and a quick read of what has been happening, I am back.

All,

Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.

Josh's words here pretty much sum it up.

Play nice.

DC Regulars...You are better than this.  Don't provoke, don't instigate, don't be trolls.

SimonKing: This is not a forum for advertising.  Please keep your comments to the point.  I have no problems with you posting your retorts here, but please do so, in a helpful manner.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

PS:  I am pretty sure, if things continue how down this current road, that this thread will simply be locked.  I am not saying it will be me that does it, plenty of people have complained about the mood here, and EVERYONE commenting here, is to blame.  Yes, I include myself in this.

...Don't make me get the hose out on you people...
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 15, 2013, 11:06 AM
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.
Indeed - I don't have more to add to this thread, the facts are on the table.

I predict the other thread is just about fizzled out as well.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on January 15, 2013, 12:29 PM
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.

Anyone who reads the thread at this stage can see enough to decide whether they want to use the product or not.
A Big Thank You to f0dder, for all the brilliant research :up:

:Wizard:

Please excuse me if you feel my responses have been insufficient; I have truly done the best that I can, and I realize that may not be good enough for some people. I however believe that through the orchestration of the MagicRAR Drive Press give-away, I have actually been able to clear up a lot of the misunderstandings, which had previously been stated as fact.

I feel that we have come full circle, where the original marketing claims made by MagicRAR have been validated through the efforts of the very same people who were claiming them to be marketing hyperbole.

That is good enough for me - I do not expect any remainder pedantic obsession would be useful to anybody.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: tomos on January 15, 2013, 01:26 PM
Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.

hi Josh,
my last post was an honest and fair analysis (okay, okay, not very amicable :-\) pointing out that I reckoned there was little chance of any more constructive discussion. This has been confirmed since - on both sides as I read it. Simonking is doing an excellent job for his company, but as you can see there's no more debate. Because of that I request that both related threads be locked.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on January 15, 2013, 01:32 PM
Because of that I request that both related threads be locked.
Dunno if they need to be locked - they're pretty dead now from my viewpoint.

One last thing coming up in a few, though, since I promised it: working on a small test to see what happens wrt. very small files (MFT-resident) when you apply compression.

Here, results from testing some very small files on an NTFS volume with 1k clusters. The files were highly comrpessible (filled with A's). The lines with "x is UNcompressed" (etc) are from a small tool I whipped up, the middle parts is the output from Microsoft's COMPACT.EXE.

small100.txt is UNcompressed, 100/100, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small500.txt is UNcompressed, 500/500, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small1000.txt is UNcompressed, 1000/1000,  1 fragments
small5000.txt is UNcompressed, 5000/5000,  1 fragments
====================================================
 Compressing files in R:\temp\z\

small100.txt              100 :       100 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small1000.txt            1000 :      1000 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small500.txt              500 :       500 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small5000.txt            5000 :      1024 = 4,9 to 1 [OK]

4 files within 1 directories were compressed.
6.600 total bytes of data are stored in 2.624 bytes.
The compression ratio is 2,5 to 1.
====================================================
small100.txt is compressed, 100/100, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small500.txt is compressed, 500/500, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small1000.txt is compressed, 1000/1000,  2 fragments
small5000.txt is compressed, 5000/1024,  2 fragments


Observations:
1) MFT-resident data stays resident - good!
2) The really small files aren't actually compressed (GetCompressedFileSize == GetFileSizeEx, see MSDN) - they are flagged compressed, though, so will be compressed once they grow.
3) For compressed files, we get "size on disk" (taking clusters into account), not "actual numCompressedBytes" - which makes sense.
4) When compressing non-resident files, we get one excess fragment.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on February 09, 2013, 09:44 PM
We've recently released MagicRAR 8.11 with the following enhancements and fixes:

- Archive operations on disk image formats (powered by the WinImage SDK) now accurately display progress.
- The Outlook Add-In now bases the file name of the automatically compressed attachment on the names of the files being attached.
- The Archive Folders Control Panel link did not work on second and subsequent clicks on 32 bit versions of Windows Vista and newer.
- Archive Folders memory management has been streamlined.

Please download and update to the latest version of MagicRAR 8.11 at http://www.magicrar.com/. Please post here, or email us, if you have any questions or concerns!
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on February 20, 2013, 10:03 AM
We have posted MagicRAR 8.2 on the public download site at http://www.magicrar.com/ with the following enhancements and bug fixes:

- Taking ownership of archive files occasionally failed when a UserChoice value was present in the registry.
- Icons for installation modes and maintenance modes in the InstallAware setup have been modernized.

Please enjoy. If you already have a key, please keep in mind that this upgrade is 100% free!
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mouser on February 20, 2013, 10:08 AM
Simon, we have a kind of informal rule here about frequency of commercial authors posting update announcements.. This site is not really the best place to post such announcements.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Zatronium on March 17, 2013, 11:07 AM
Found this thread on google while searching for something else. Thought it was a neat bit of software... Then I realized I've used this program before. It's a ripoff of CompreXX:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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The compression comparison feature does work in CompreXX, I didn't install the entire package for the screenshot. It's a pain in the ass to uninstall.

In the other thread Simon says:
you will most probably find that MagicRAR Drive Press, due to its low level nature, is the most well tested component of the entire suite. Hunting bugs elsewhere would be a lot more rewarding for you, I promise

Yeah because he probably didn't write the code. Drive Press is the only thing he added, and it's questionable whether he wrote that himself. Not to mention Drive Press literally kills your SSD and makes HDDs run slower.

Both this thread and the other one (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=33638.0) are basically redirecting people to stolen software, unless Simon can prove that he owns the rights to Comprexx.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mouser on March 17, 2013, 11:19 AM
Hi Zatronium --

I've spoken to the author of Comprexx and he is in fact teamed up with the MagicRar folks -- so that's why you are noticing that it's the same underlying system.  They are created by same author.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Curt on March 17, 2013, 02:51 PM
Did any of you ever test the program?  :-\
Did you know that MagicRAR is a Microsoft BizSpark startup company?

If you want to test the program, you can have a free license key now, right "now":

[Giveaway] MagicRAR 8.5 The Next-Generation Archiver for Windows FREE for 1 Week (http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/711617-giveaway-magicrar-8-5-next-generation-archiver-windows-free-1-week.html)
-NotebookReview.com

-the "1 week" is ending tonight, Sunday 17th March 2013, European American time

http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/711617-giveaway-magicrar-8-5-next-generation-archiver-windows-free-1-week.html

http://www.promaxum.com/testimonials.html
http://www.magicrar.com/awards.html
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: tomos on March 17, 2013, 03:01 PM
Did any of you ever test the program?  :-\

did you miss f0dder's in depth testing?
(In this and another thread)
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mwb1100 on March 17, 2013, 03:15 PM
Interesting that the 'reviewer' in the notebookreview.com posted left by Curt has the user name, mimarsinan, which is a name also associated with CompreXX that Zatronium and Mouser pointed out is largely the same code as MagicRAR.  Yet mimarsinan's post doesn't mention any affiliation with MagicRAR.

MagicRAR may well be useful software, but I'm not left with the best feeling about it.

Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Curt on March 17, 2013, 06:50 PM
sorry I posted too early, but I had lost track of time and my movie was suddenly beginning. What I was thinking, when the television commercials were showing and giving me time to think about this thread, was, that the reviews were suspicious - but I kept looking at the clock and decided I didn't have the time tonight to investigate any further. But right now I will not be surprised if none of the praising reviewers exist.

But you can still have a free key tonight, ehh... I assume! I haven't tried. I don't want it.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: Zatronium on March 18, 2013, 03:12 AM
Hi Zatronium --

I've spoken to the author of Comprexx and he is in fact teamed up with the MagicRar folks -- so that's why you are noticing that it's the same underlying system.  They are created by same author.

Thanks for the info, glad to hear that it's not simply stolen. I actually enjoyed the CompreXX program a lot when I used it years ago. I switched over to 7-Zip because their UI had become less buggy and more functional than CompreXX. I honestly think this program could be a prime competitor in the compression niche with more fixes to the old code and some more updates to the UI. So it would be nice if Simon could pick up where MimarSinan left off instead of adding useless bloat to the program and renaming everything else "Simon King;" it just comes off as conceited and obnoxious.

This Drive Press thing is a gimmicky tool reminiscent of DriveSpace; the latter of which has already been considered obsolete for over a decade. Even if it does have any relevance, it's going to be considered obsolete again soon. Drive Press damages the drive to achieve space savings which may not even be realized on SSD controllers that already utilize compression. This simply isn't a good practice - especially with how rapidly SSD cost per GB is dropping. If it's really that much of an issue then you should buy an internal HDD instead, because you'll be spending more money due to the wear on your SSD regardless.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: f0dder on March 18, 2013, 09:42 AM
Interesting development - thanks for the info, Zatronium, and thanks to mouser for the extra bit of investigation. So... SimonKing probably didn't write a single line of code, but just rebranded Comprexx? Cute.

I agree that one should not be using the gung-ho NTFS compression on an SSD - already written it in previous posts, but it doesn't hurt repeating :)
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on March 31, 2013, 03:19 PM
I am really glad to read that this latest round of paranoia has been deflated by other members of the forum before I became aware of it.

The fact remains that there appears to be a terrific amount of prejudice against MagicRAR - I chalk this up to jealousy and prefer to take it as a compliment.

I will not comment on whether I actually personally wrote any code on MagicRAR, but MagicRAR does bring the following significant enhancements over previous incarnations of the product:

Platform Compatibility:
* Brand new 64 bit support with unified 32bit-64bit installer
- Fully official Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 support
* Dramatically enhanced shell namespace extension stability
- User Account Control compatibility
- New style Control Panel extensions

Brand New Features:
- Outlook Add-Ins for versions of Outlook newer than Outlook 2003
- Outlook Archive Previews
- Windows Explorer Archive Previews
* MagicRAR Drive Press
* Intelligent "Extract to Subfolders" which doesn't create superfluous top-level folders
* "Find Smallest Archive" Explorer right-click menu to determine the smallest possible archive objectively
- Right-click extraction support for EXE files
- Dramatically improved archive browsing speeds for archives that contain thousands of files within them

Brand New Plug-Ins:
- ZIPX compression/extraction with 256bit AES encryption
- VMware/Virtual PC virtual hard disk support
* Open source plug-in stack with installer integration
* The new InstallAware installer picks up contributions made to the GitHUB repo automatically without even needing to be rebuilt!

Not all changes are technical - some could be called business decisions, made in the better interests of our users:
- Online-activation-free serial key input
* Free serial key for the first 30 days
* Aggressive product give-aways

(*) Means the benefit is unique to MagicRAR as of this writing.

This is just a short list of what MagicRAR has improved above and over CompreXX.

For those brave enough to explore beyond the boundaries of their paranoia, I would suggest accessing (and maybe even contributing) to the open source MagicRAR repo at GitHUB. The repo contains a brief history document in addition to source code. For instance, MagicRAR's precedent CompreXX is clearly acknowledged in the repo history, as well as other precedents. None of this is secret or hidden from the public eye.

Under the guise of free speech, there are many on this forum who would publicly slander and defame MagicRAR, a perfectly legitimate product which is the culmination of nearly two decades of software engineering efforts. Clearly these individuals are very deluded and while they might feel comfortable under the cloak of anonymity that the Internet affords, I cannot help but wonder whether they sleep soundly at night.

Another such frequent attack now is the Drive Press angle - for the benefit of open minded folks, I have been using it on my SSDs ever since its first version (necessity is the mother of invention), and my SSDs are running beautifully, thank you very much! The claim that Drive Press has any kind of deleterious effect on SSDs is pure fiction and FUD.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: wraith808 on March 31, 2013, 03:51 PM
While I understand that you feel/have the need to address this latest round of discussions, I for one would appreciate it if your posts to do so would stay professional and refrain from utilizing pejoratives.

latest round of paranoia

For those brave enough to explore beyond the boundaries of their paranoia

Clearly these individuals are very deluded

None of that was necessary, and indeed, a post without those would have gone a ways towards gaining goodwill.  Instead, like many others when negative criticism is levied, the more base manners of defense come to light, including the losing way of debating of attacking the arguer rather than the argument.  And like those, no matter what truth may be in your post, your tone turns me away from your product and your company, even if I had need.

That's something that you might want to keep in mind in the future (and there is an edit button on the post if you want to correct such), especially when posting on DC.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: simonking on April 01, 2013, 03:20 AM
While I understand that you feel/have the need to address this latest round of discussions, I for one would appreciate it if your posts to do so would stay professional and refrain from utilizing pejoratives.

latest round of paranoia

For those brave enough to explore beyond the boundaries of their paranoia

Clearly these individuals are very deluded

None of that was necessary, and indeed, a post without those would have gone a ways towards gaining goodwill.  Instead, like many others when negative criticism is levied, the more base manners of defense come to light, including the losing way of debating of attacking the arguer rather than the argument.  And like those, no matter what truth may be in your post, your tone turns me away from your product and your company, even if I had need.

That's something that you might want to keep in mind in the future (and there is an edit button on the post if you want to correct such), especially when posting on DC.

You make a good point, and please excuse me if I have overstepped my bounds. In my defense, please do allow me to paste the Wikipedia definitions for the exact words I have used, together with my rationale for using them:

Delusion: A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

As I have outlined repeatedly in this thread, there is ample public record on MagicRAR (most notably through the GitHUB repository, which is accessible easily through the MagicRAR download page) which refutes practically all of the negative assertions on MagicRAR in this thread. All of this falls under the "contrary superior evidence" category; the insistence of particular contributors to this forum despite this superiority of evidence cannot be called anything other than delusion.

Paranoia: Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself.

The starter of this thread himself/herself was self-admittedly paranoid. Various assertions that are repeatedly made in this thread strongly suggest that MagicRAR or components of the MagicRAR suite will cause harm when this is not in fact the case. The threat is therefore not real but perceived. A lot of the negative feedback left on MagicRAR here definitely falls under conspiratorial thinking.

As such it appears to me that my usage of the above words is accurate by their Wikipedia definitions, and not pejorative. Clearly you disagree, which brings to mind a new kind of word:

Hypocrisy: Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.

What I'm getting from you is that its OK for people to very unprofessionally attack MagicRAR under the guise of free speech, but it is not OK for MagicRAR to - let us assume unprofessionally for the sake of argument - try to set the record straight and protect its brand and product against completely baseless and demonstrably false accusations. In other words, DC tolerates attacks on products, but does not tolerate attacks on those attackers of products. Why this asymmetry?
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: mouser on April 01, 2013, 05:35 AM
I think it's probably time to wrap this thread up as we are all going around in circles..
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: barney on April 01, 2013, 05:43 AM
^+1.
It's occupying space, providing naught but frustration at best.
Title: Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
Post by: wraith808 on April 01, 2013, 07:25 AM
I am really glad to read that this latest round of paranoia has been deflated by other members of the forum before I became aware of it.

Your quote, not mine.  So, with that in mind.

What I'm getting from you is that its OK for people to very unprofessionally attack MagicRAR under the guise of free speech, but it is not OK for MagicRAR to - let us assume unprofessionally for the sake of argument - try to set the record straight and protect its brand and product against completely baseless and demonstrably false accusations. In other words, DC tolerates attacks on products, but does not tolerate attacks on those attackers of products. Why this asymmetry?

This seems to be disingenuous.  As Mouser has asked us to wrap it up, it will be my last time posting.  But, all I was trying to do was to give you some advice.  Your pedantic response hasn't endeared you any more to myself, and I'm sure to anyone else.

Sometimes, the best thing to do is to say nothing.  It's hard.  It might have been what I should have done in the face of your post.  But I really wanted to make sure that for the future, you might see your two statements side by side... and perhaps come to the self-realization that though this exercise may have been rewarding in that you were able to give tit-for-tat, it was perhaps pyrrhic at best.

Thanks for your consideration.