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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: urlwolf on December 30, 2007, 08:05 AM

Title: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: urlwolf on December 30, 2007, 08:05 AM
This guy loves opera. He mises delicious integration as I do.

I am a Firefox fan. I’ve been using Firefox since it was named “Firebird” and calling it “stable” was a big overstatement. Firefox dragged me out of Internet Explorer, and that was definitely one of its biggest achievements.

Because I’m addicted to trying out new tools, however, I always kept testing new browsers I discovered here and there. K-Meleon, Flock, Sleipnir… When Safari came out for Windows I immediately installed it and used it for about 2 hours, only to realize that it wasn’t – and it still isn’t – usable at all, mainly due to sporadic crashes.



Similarly, I’ve been trying out Opera periodically, as new releases came out, but again it didn’t seem to work for me. The biggest complaint I had was its inability to render heavily-ajaxified web sites properly. However, now it seems that the Opera Development Team made a big effort to improve the browser, and I was pleased to notice that Opera 9.5b (“Kestrel”) doesn’t seem to have this sort of problems at all.



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 (http://www.h3rald.com/articles/firefox-lovers-guide-to-opera)

from h3rald.com
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: cmpm on December 30, 2007, 10:44 AM
It took me a long time to switch to Firefox from ie.
The turning point was mostly when it switched to ie7,
which has hardly any customizable features,
unless you go with a ton of toolbars.

Firefox is very customizable imo.
You can pull icons off of the google toolbar
and put them where the menu items are, which is cool.
Then turn off the google toolbar.

Add ons No Squint, SpeedDial and Fastdial are great for me.
I don't know if Opera can do all that Firefox can.
But I haven't tried so I don't know.......
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: sri on December 30, 2007, 10:58 AM
Fast - Check
Light weight - Check
Features - Check
Support for Roboform - oops!

Sorry, it's FF for now Opera..see you later.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Josh on December 30, 2007, 11:10 AM
Ditto, no roboform == no opera.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Dormouse on December 30, 2007, 11:23 AM
Ditto, no roboform == no opera.
-Josh (December 30, 2007, 11:10 AM)
For me, it's the other way round. No roboform on Opera = no roboform.

I've used Opera and FF for a very long time (as well as ie when necessary). There have always been some sites that don't work so well with Opera (not so many as there used to be though) and I use FF for them. But I find Opera much faster and more efficient most of the time.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Armando on December 30, 2007, 01:07 PM
Nice article.

I like opera, but my touch pad doesn't seem to like it. The scrolling is not smooth enough and it's annoying (and I've tried everything) ;  I scroll so much in a day that I can't live with that kind of clunky scrolling [EDIT : actually : it's not THAT bad if I change certain settings  :)... But :]. It's also lacking the flexibility one finds in Firefox.

So... I've tried using Opera for a few weeks (used it with nontroppo's "breeze_simplified_micro" skin  :up: ), but had to go back to... Maxthon (where scrolling is just pure ecstasy : precise, smooth, etc. -- well, for me, with this touch pad) ...

And now I'm retrying Firefox... with the "PlainOldFavorites" add-on : I could never get used to Bookmarks (although I prefer the term "bookmark"). Favorites are easier to search and manage, I find ; they're just tiny files-shortcut. I've actually switched from Maxthon to Firefox three days ago (main reason : plug ins, add ons, security -- and scrolling is not too bad if you remove the "smooth scrolling" option, and get rid of all the smooth scrolling add-ons --> my touch pad doesn't like them). I like Firefox, but I'm still having a slight problem with its horrendous RAM usage.  :sick:
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: f0dder on December 30, 2007, 01:21 PM
I've been using Opera a bit on and off over the years, but it's always been slightly unstable for me, and (especially back when I used it a lot, things are MUCH MUCH better now!) some sites didn't render all too well (I suspect that a big factor was the overweight of poorly designed IE-only pages back then).

These days, I can't really be arsed to switch from FireFox. Sure, Opera is faster and lighter, which does matter a lot to me, but it still seems to crash every now and then, and there's no plugin support.

Took me quite a while to adopt FireFox, since I used Avast (better than Maxthon imho). But I finally got hitten by a drive-by exploit in a banner ad or something, and from then on I never looked back, although I reserve the right to bitch about FireFox bloat and (loading) slowness.

Never been a friend of "smooth scrolling", even in IE. Too slow, and scrolling in the opposite direction doesn't "cancel" scrolling, so you have to wait until the smooth scroll is done until you can scroll back - annoying. And it's absolutely crapalicious on terminal servers :)
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Armando on December 30, 2007, 01:27 PM
I've been using Opera a bit on and off over the years, but it's always been slightly unstable for me
-f0dder (December 30, 2007, 01:21 PM)

Opera has been absolutely stable when I tried it (for 2-3 weeks), 1-2 months ago.

But, yes, the absence of a plug in system is a drag.

Never been a friend of "smooth scrolling", even in IE. Too slow, and scrolling in the opposite direction doesn't "cancel" scrolling, so you have to wait until the smooth scroll is done until you can scroll back - annoying. And it's absolutely crapalicious on terminal servers :)
-f0dder (December 30, 2007, 01:21 PM)

Yup, smooth scrolling is generally not my friend either, but in Maxthon, don't ask me why, scrolling in the opposite direction is absolutely instantaneous ([edit : even with "smooth scrolling" on]). And, well, it goes as fast as you want it to...
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Lashiec on December 30, 2007, 01:34 PM
Come to Opera, f0dder. The thing is stable as a rock, fast as hell, and no memory bloat. You know you want it ;D
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: f0dder on December 30, 2007, 01:36 PM
Come to Opera, f0dder. The thing is stable as a rock, fast as hell, and no memory bloat. You know you want it ;D
-Lashiec (December 30, 2007, 01:34 PM)
Hasn't been stable as a rock for me, while FireFox has only crashed very seldomly, and it's always been JAVA (not javascript) related.

Until there's AdBlockPlus, save page as image and a couple other features, I won't even consider it :)
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: tomos on December 30, 2007, 02:38 PM
Come to Opera, f0dder. The thing is stable as a rock, fast as hell, and no memory bloat. You know you want it ;D
-Lashiec (December 30, 2007, 01:34 PM)

me want too!
.....
but there's too many things in the way
adblock/flashblock have me spoilt, I know Opera has some adblocking but I just gave up trying to figure it out... and it doesnt just "work", well not in comparision with Adblock(Plus)

Copy only copies plain text - no formatting; doesnt work with Surfulater/Evernote

I used prefer tab implementation in Opera but now prefer tabmixplus options -
Opera brought in a while back where you can click on a tab, click again on same tab & it will go back to last viewed tab
This has only ever worked (if at all) only for very short periods of time for me - doesnt work at all in latest version (maybe they got rid of it :-\ :down:) works in tab mix plus
-
You cant get it to just go to next tab (left or right) when closing current tab (?)

So boils down to I is a frustrated Opera lover :-* :(
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Armando on December 30, 2007, 02:43 PM
So boils down to I is a frustrated Opera lover :-* :(
-tomos (December 30, 2007, 02:38 PM)

Same case here.

But if Firefox could have that...
fast as hell, and no memory bloat.
-Lashiec (December 30, 2007, 01:34 PM)
....I couldn't care less about Opera !  :)
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: zridling on December 30, 2007, 03:08 PM
IE7 really can't compete with either FF or Opera. I like both, but given my choice, I'll take Opera for its advanced features. You can 'widget' the heck out of it; assign keyboard shortcuts to anything; make it look and work like either IE or FF if you prefer; its Wand allowed me to dump Roboform; and it makes copying everything easy (in 2 clicks). Moreover, I can take all my Windows settings for Opera to Linux and it looks and works exactly the same. If someone throws FF in front of me, I know it inside out, so it never slows me down.

The great unsung characteristic of Firefox is its design simplicity. This cannot be overstated.

However, I give great credit to Opera for tweaking Microsoft's nose before the EU to unbundle IE from Windows. Just because the american justice department under bush decided to drop its antitrust case against Microsoft doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued. No one is forcing me to use IE when I use Windows, but on the other hand, Microsoft is forcing IE into its OSes, no matter what the consumer wants.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: f0dder on December 30, 2007, 03:37 PM
Zaine: it isn't possible to remove IE from Windows now - sure, you can remove iexplore.exe and the ability to use it as a full browser, but you can't remove the components it's made of, since those are re-used in so many apps now.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Lashiec on December 30, 2007, 06:24 PM
tomos: Opera adblocking (http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/). It's not as powerful as Adblock Plus, but it seems to be improved in 9.5 (don't know if they finally added the possibility of using regular expressions for the filtering rules), and not as convenient but it's integrated in the browser, so Opera Software can't make it as easier (Google may get angry).

And courtesy of nontroppo wiki: Flashblock (http://my.opera.com/Lex1/blog/flashblock-for-opera-9). This is as good as Firefox's extension.

I think there is some way to achieve what you want with tabs, but really, it's a matter of the situation, more than preference. Sometimes it comes in handy (for example, when you close the 20th tab, and you go back to the 1st one, which was the one you was reading), and sometimes you curse it. With Firefox it's the same, but reversed.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: icekin on December 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
I have Opera installed to test out new sites I create. While Opera is faster than any other browser I've come across, I don't find it to be lighter than Firefox as far as RAM usage goes. Both of them consume well over a 100 MB of RAM with a dozen tabs open. I like several of Opera's features such as inbuilt torrent downloading (though I'd still probably prefer utorrent). I feel that Opera could seize a much larger share of the browser market if it went Open Source. I feel it still cannot match Firefox's customizability out of the box due to its closed source nature.

And of course, there are lots of sites that don't work properly with Opera for some reason. Gmail used to be among them.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: lanux128 on December 31, 2007, 09:55 AM
as a fellow long-time Firefox user, the author's points are compelling. but i'll probably stumble at the 1st step because i can't wean myself off the add-ons.. a good read, though.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: nontroppo on December 31, 2007, 10:34 AM
Armando: did you try tweaking either/both:

opera:config#UserPrefs|SmoothScrolling
opera:config#UserPrefs|TurboMode

Turbo Mode changings when image data is decoded, which can affect scrolling on some machines (turbo=on decodes on load, turbo=off decodes when an image is scrolled into view, good for older machines).

I've never really understood why AdBlockPlus is so loved, in some senses the "Block content" mode of Opera offers some advantages IMO UI wise. The only thing it doesn't and won't include is a block-list, but I find they cause as many problems as they may solve. It would be trivial to make an "add-on" to update the opera filter using a script.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: tomos on December 31, 2007, 10:46 AM
well for someone like me = like things that work without too much messing round
AdblockPlus (one it's installed) simply & effectively works well
all I know is when I use Opera that I see lots more adds..

But for me, that isnt why I stay with FF - it's that it wont work with Surfulater/Evernote & far as I know cut & paste still has no formatting and no images copy - just tried again, nope...

Me, I'd even sacrifice roboform for Opera, but not Surfulater especially seeing as no equivalent options..
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: tomos on December 31, 2007, 10:47 AM
And courtesy of nontroppo wiki: Flashblock (http://my.opera.com/Lex1/blog/flashblock-for-opera-9). This is as good as Firefox's extension.
-Lashiec (December 30, 2007, 06:24 PM)

sound good nontroppo/Lashiec, will try  :up:
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Armando on December 31, 2007, 11:21 AM
Armando: did you try tweaking either/both:

opera:config#UserPrefs|SmoothScrolling
opera:config#UserPrefs|TurboMode

-nontroppo (December 31, 2007, 10:34 AM)

Thanks nontroppo (and a happy new year to come !!!  :Thmbsup: ).
I tried these before and they don't make the scrolling good enough.
That + what tomos and f0dder described = me won't using Opera.
Which is too bad because I really love opera for so many other things -- and some very important too me, like speed, lightness, etc.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: urlwolf on December 31, 2007, 11:30 AM
The scroll in 9.5 is fantastic, much better than in any other browser. it has acceleration/deceleration, you must see this... it feels so natural.

adBlockPlus = use adMuncher; much better anyway (not free though)

@Tomos:
plain text clipboard is one of the most stupid things the opera team has done (and they stick to it!). I find it horrible too, I need it to cut/paste to oneNote.

Let's start a mass complaint int the forum (yet again!)....
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: f0dder on December 31, 2007, 12:13 PM
adMuncher much better, ho humm. AdBlockPlus works as it's supposed to, comes with predefined & updated rules, and doesn't hook into all apps.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: nontroppo on December 31, 2007, 01:02 PM
Happy new year to all you bunch too!  :-*

icekin: Opera uses available memory, but does so much more efficiently. I've tested this using a google images stress test: open 3 tabs with 3 different google image searches, navigate through 10 pages on each (30 pages = 600 images!), now try to fast navigate backwards. Opera keeps all 30 pages prerendered in less memory than FF, and FF fails to fast-navigate back after the third page. So Opera is using its memory cache more efficiently than FF as far as I can tell, irrespective of overall numbers.

For those interested, this is what I have in my urlfilter.ini exclude list, blocks most of the annoying stuff for me and the small list keeps page loading fast (Firefox or Opera slows down considerably with large blocklists):

[Select]
http://*.2mdn.net/*
http://*.adbrite.com/*
http://*.bidvertiser.com/*
http://*.mediaplex.com/*
http://*.rmxads.com/iframe*
http://*.streamray.com/bestclicked/*
http://*adsrevenue.net*
http://*inklineglobal.com/ad*
http://*intellitxt.com/intellitxt*
http://*realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/*
http://ad.doubleclick.net*
http://ad.yieldmanager.com/*
http://ads.doubleclick.net/*
http://banner.nonstoppartner.de/*
http://cdn.euroclick.com/contents/*
http://cdn.eyewonder.com/*
http://cdn.fastclick.net/fastclick.net/*
http://cdn2.precisionclick.com/*
http://cdn5.tribalfusion.com/media/*
http://clicktorrent.info/phpAdsNew/*
http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/*
http://crtv.mate1.com/crtv/*
http://ctxt.tribalfusion.com/ctxt*
http://*.nytimes.com/ads/*
http://i.cmpnet.com/ads/*
http://kona.kontera.com/*
http://layer-ads.de/*
http://m.tangozebra.com/*
http://media.baventures.com/ispy/*
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/*
http://pages.etology.com/gtbimg/*
http://spe.atdmt.com/*
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/*
http://www.google-analytics.com/__*
http://www.popinads.com/*

Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: Armando on December 31, 2007, 03:33 PM
thanks for your list nontroppo!

[slightly off-topic] BTW, are there any advantages to use the "bookmarks system" instead of favorites (like in IE, Maxthon, etc.; I earlier mentioned the fact that I didn't like bookmarks, and that I'm currently using the PlainOldFavorites add-on for firefox -- which allows to use favorites in Firefox instead [/slightly off-topic]
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: cmpm on December 31, 2007, 08:06 PM
zridling,

appreciate the post about Opera
checking it out now

is there a way to make the icons smaller in the toolbars
if there is, i couldn't find it in customize
it would make for more room to view the websites
and the other things that Opera can show via the browser

other then that i think i'll play with it a while
it does have quite a few widgets!!!! Wow!
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: cmpm on December 31, 2007, 08:54 PM
Or if anyone knows how to make the icons smaller in Opera, that would be nice.

Also how to customize the google toolbar widget that seems to have a fixed set of buttons. There is no button maker either for it like the google toolbar for firefox and ie. It's also undockable so it's either hidden or in front of something.

But having fun with it tonight anyway.

Thanks for the thread urlwolf.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: PhilB66 on December 31, 2007, 10:23 PM
Happy New Year (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/5Large/impra.gif)

@nontroppo

Tnx. for the list.  Do you know if */ads.*, */ads/*, */ad.*, and */ad/* cover most of the stuff?

Here's my list:

*.atdmt.com/*
*.googlesyndication.com/*
*.intellitxt.com/*
*.overture.com/*
*.tribalfusion.com/*
*/*astoundinginc.com/*ad*.*
*/*astoundinginc.com/1hosting/*
*/a.tribalfusion.com/*
*/adlog.com.com/*
*/ads.*
*/ads/*
*/ad.*
*/ad/*
*/adserver.yahoo.*
*/adserver/*
*/counter.hitslink.*
*/hit.clickaider.*
*/intellitxt/*
*ad.doubleclick.net*
*ad.yieldmanager.com*
*ads.yimg.com*
*advertising*
*dynamic.fmpub.net*
*yimg.com*adv*
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: PhilB66 on December 31, 2007, 10:30 PM
@cmpm

File ---> Tools ---> Appearance ---> Skin Tab ---> Change Icons Size (see pic)

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: cmpm on December 31, 2007, 10:46 PM
aahhh thanks....
thought i'd need like a 24 inch screen or somethin..:)
would be nice but that skin thingy will help

Happy New Year!!!!
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: nontroppo on January 01, 2008, 05:55 AM
BTW, are there any advantages to use the "bookmarks system" instead of favorites
-Armando (December 31, 2007, 03:33 PM)

How about our favorite topic - tagging. I use tags in the description field so one can find bookmarks irrespective of their title/URL. Quick find using the bookmark panel [CTRL]+3

And have you ever tried SHIFT+F2 with bookmark nicknames. It autocompletes on the nickname, so if you have a unique nickname "HUBA" you simply type:

[SHIFT]+[F2] -> "HU"

and you will go to the page as soon as enogh characters are entered to make it clear which nickname you want, no need to press enter.

And I prefer having a simple text file compared to a pseudo file-system directory structure for backup and manual conversion via scripts etc.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: nontroppo on January 01, 2008, 06:03 AM
Phil: I don't like using generic matches like /ad/ as I've noticed false positives which I try to avoid as much as possible. false positives are much more destructive than false negatives...

cmpm: you can also use a different skin as they have different sized icons; my own Breeze skins are optimised to use a little screen space as possible. And you can set up UI toggle states, I have a mouse gesture that toggles between a minimal UI and a full UI quickly. Full screen mode in Opera deliberately removes the chrome so that is another option too.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: cmpm on January 01, 2008, 08:54 AM
Thanks nontroppo,

Opera-

One thing I really like is how it does dropdown list of bookmarks.
You can view then without scrolling or taking up more then the screen can handle.
By default it shows a single list with a next or more at the bottom and brings up the next list of alpabeticaly sorted bookmarks with out taking up all the room on the desktop. Removing any 3rd list keeping it to two and better accessible and readable.
Firefox is not done well in its dropdown list of bookmarks unless you use the bookmark sidebar it's a time consuming deal. The sidebar button on firefox is the only workable fast way of browsing bookmarks for me.
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: PhilB66 on January 01, 2008, 09:50 AM
I  :-* Opera  :Thmbsup:

Here are a few links to Opera resources around the Web I found extremely useful:


 
Title: Re: A Firefox Lover's Guide to Opera
Post by: dantheman on June 04, 2009, 07:11 AM
PhilB66,

Is that link to the "Top 150 Popular Firefox Extensions and Opera" still good?

BTW, i once had a shortcut link to make a quick history search.
Are you familiar?


Update: Tamil just helped me out.

Create shortcut to: opera:historysearch?q=help

I like dat one!