DonationCoder.com Forum
Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Josh on February 26, 2011, 04:01 PM
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In a three and a half minute video, Microsoft may have shown the world what it has in store for the eagerly awaited Windows 8. In the video Microsoft showed a radically different interface from past versions of Windows -- even Windows 7. Running on Surface 2, the touch-screen successor to the original Microsoft Surface, the device accepts input from a Windows Phone 7 handset (HTC HD7).
Gone are the icons that drive Windows, OS X, and Linux operating systems of past and present. In their place are "bubbles" that interacted with files and post streaming information off the internet.
Source URL (http://www.ispyce.com/2011/02/microsoft-shows-off-radical-new-ui.html)
More at MS Press Pass (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/RethinkingComputing/)
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Without looking at the source or anything other than what you've quoted, I'd guess it's a no for Windows 8 since it's using the Surface 2.
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Couldn't surface 2 be used for future tablet pcs?
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Couldn't surface 2 be used for future tablet pcs?
That depends on hardware pricing and manufacturer.
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As I understand, Surface is still thousands of dollars. It will be a little while before that technology is affordable for the mass market.
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Where is Kinect? Never thought I'd see the day where we're told the mouse was unnatural and just too difficult to learn. As one commenter said: "At least they're experimenting."
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As I understand, Surface is still thousands of dollars. It will be a little while before that technology is affordable for the mass market.-Deozaan
The thousands of dollars part was only for the infrared camera (in the base to watch for fingers), and the commercial (restaurant) quality heavy Plexiglas tabletop for the UI. The software was fairly basic and the computer used for all the back-when demos was a bog standard off-the-shelf machine.
With the touch screens available today, all MS really needs to launch it is an OS designed around it and an updated marketing plan.
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Try something like the Dell multi touch monitor with Windows 7 and some of the free touch pack from MS or the Worldwide Telescope, all the functionality of Surface at a reasonably low cost. Damn good fun too
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If I understand some of what was going on in the video there, MS is going to blow the top off of computing with a major revolution.
That is... If they don't do the "let's bugger this up" thang that MS likes to do every so often.
Put your camera on the screen to read photos? Unreal.
Some of the other stuff in there is also looking like it really will revolutionize the UI.
Crossing my fingers...
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So yeah... Windows 8 does seem to be more like a Tablet OS than a desktop OS. . .
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Looks like a cool interface for a wall mounted art display or a pad-based infotainment device.. and a painfully horrid general interface for an operating system.
All I can say is: I hope it has a Windows 2000 User Interface option buried somewhere in the control panel.
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Yeah, making the "flicking" motions with the mouse all the time to navigate seems like it would be annoying.
When he was showing off Excel I did see the standard looking Windows 7 task bar and "Windows" button, etc. So there's some hope for that.
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Looks like a cool interface for a wall mounted art display or a pad-based infotainment device.. and a painfully horrid general interface for an operating system.
-mouser
Yes! I totally agree. I can't imagine wanting to move to Windows 8.
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I am NOT trading in my taskbar full of icons for that stupid start screen! (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/klnie2.gif)
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Wow, looks beautiful...but would NOT want to code on that lol
Gimme a keyboard over a touchscreen any day!
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Seriously guys, do you really think the desktop version of Windows 8 is going to ship with the tablet UI as the default interface?
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I am NOT trading in my taskbar full of icons for that stupid start screen! (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/klnie2.gif)
-app103
Um, Yeah... Pencil me into the You Gotta Be Shitting Me! list also. Totally did not see this coming. Crap.
:(
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I wouldn't worry about it. My guess is that Microsoft is already working with some select hardware vendors to come up with solutions that will address all the UI/input device concerns.
I'd like to see this all come storming out of the gates as a raging success. It would be nice to have something different out there to look forward to.
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I wouldn't worry about it. My guess is that Microsoft is already working with some select hardware vendors to come up with solutions that will address all the UI/input device concerns.-Renegade
It's not the input devices that concern me. You see, the 'T' in T-Clock, stands for Tray. As in SystemTray. So... If there is no TaskBar, There is also no SystemTray. Hence the project (that I've been working on for a decade) would be dead.
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I wouldn't worry about it. My guess is that Microsoft is already working with some select hardware vendors to come up with solutions that will address all the UI/input device concerns.-Renegade
It's not the input devices that concern me. You see, the 'T' in T-Clock, stands for Tray. As in SystemTray. So... If there is no TaskBar, There is also no SystemTray. Hence the project (that I've been working on for a decade) would be dead.
-Stoic Joker
Like I said... Don't worry. Microsoft has always been in the business of helping developers. Now, if it were Apple, you could expect a big fat c**k in your a** real fast.
MS has always been about backward compatibilty. F**king people is Apple's Job.
;)
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The trouble with all this is that it is already nearly there in touch screen computers.
I already have a number of clients using systems with touch screens - the problem is after the novelty wears off (around the 5 minute mark) they all go back to keyboard and mouse because it is quick, more accurate and less tiring to use.
Who wants to use massive arm gestures when a quick flick of the wrist does the job rather better.
Maybe more innovative software is required but I am not convinced Microsoft are capable of producing it.
At least MS are thinking - the problem is that the way they are thinking seems to be at odds with what people want. All this is ideal in a palm device (except when you need to type when it is utterly crap) but on a large screen it looks really childish and nerdy!
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Boy is that ever gorgeous and just too cool. :Thmbsup:
I don't like it. :P
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Boy is that ever gorgeous and just too cool. :Thmbsup:
I don't like it. :P
-40hz
I actually don't mind it right now. The key to the functional success of Windows 8 will be how well it will work with the various input methods. So far, Windows was great for people who used keyboards and mice. Now, with the tablet market emerging, the interface needs to be very specifically suited for touch input. That comes down to bigger buttons and bigger fonts, and fewer menus and little things to click on. Windows 7, even though it can do touch stuff, is not as elegant as iOS because it still operates fundamentally on mouse input and keyboard. All the touch features are sort of shoehorned in.
On the other hand, it still needs to be able to work well with a keyboard and mouse when needed, because windows users will always hang on to this approach. So, in my opinion, there needs to be an elegant way to switch between the various modes: touch mode, and classic mode. You can't have both simultaneously. If they try to do both, it will not be that good. Same goes for apps. I'm sure there are going to be programs suited for tablet use, and others suited for the traditional use we are used to. We can't expect to use our current Windows procedures on a touch interface. People always get frustrated by this and don't realize that they can't have it both ways at the same time. Touch interaction doesn't have the precision and speed of mouse/keyboard use/ But mouse/keyboard is bulky, so it's not portable. So touch mode will need to be used for tablet type functions. Meaning, we shouldn't complain when trying to use a tablet to work with hardcore excel spreadsheets. You can't have it both ways. We need to stop comparing tablets with laptops and desktops, and then get frustrated that we can't do stuff that we used to be able to do.
The other "mode" I can see being necessary with touchscreens becoming mainstream now is some kind of precision drawing mode. Touch input for using apps is one thing...doing precise drawings is another. Touch input for apps will need to be forgiving with the precision, or else it will become a nuisance. So in drawing mode, it will be sort of a hybrid between mouse-like precision, but the tactile freedom of the pen.
Those are the three modes I'm thinking about, and that is how I will judge the effectiveness of Windows 8's new interface.
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I am really sick of the mindset that everything needs to be "purdy at all costs", forsaking functionality and customizability if necessary in order to achieve this "purdy-ness". (You can probably thank Apple for this)
I do not like desktop icons. I do not have any. My desktop is usually covered by open windows so I rarely ever see it. It is inconvenient to go to my desktop to launch applications. I use my desktop as a personal message board, pinning sticky notes to myself and an assortment of gauges and widgets that supply info I don't need to see every moment of every day, but still needs to remain handy.
It is inconvenient to go to the start menu and go scrolling through huge menus looking for the app I want to launch. I do not have a mere 10 apps installed on my computer...I have many. Just in games alone, I have over 50 that have shortcuts on my taskbar. That Win8 start screen is great for people that don't have much. Can you imagine scrolling through 100's of "pages" to find the one app you want to use?
A lot of time, thought, and work went into setting up my desktop to be as productive as possible. 12 years to be exact. I resent any company that takes a few months to undo all that I have done over the course of many years, in order to appeal to people that should be using a TV rather than a computer.
The apps I have installed often have a collection of files that go with them, in their own folder, which I do not keep in "My Documents".
For convenience sake, I keep shortcuts to things I use often on my taskbar, sorted into nice sections by purpose, with the folders of related files located right next to the shortcut for the app they are used with.
It is faster and easier for me to pop out my taskbar when I need it and go right to the shortcut I want. My hand instinctively knows where everything is. It is so much a part of myself now, that I am lost when using another OS in which I can't have a taskbar arranged the way I want. It is the one thing that keeps me coming back to Windows and prevents me from adopting another OS full time.
I hated the introduction of themes in XP because besides looking ugly and childish, it took up more space on the taskbar, causing less shortcuts to fit per row.
I hated the removal of the ability to have additional shortcut bars on other edges of the desktop, introduced in Win7. (saw this on my dad's PC and decided not to upgrade till I found a solution to the problem)
I like the simplicity and complete customizability of the classic Win9x theme.
If it means not upgrading in order to keep my desktop functional to me, then so be it.
If it means choosing another OS to accomplish what I want, then so be it.
If Microsoft continues to attempt to cater to Mac users and idiots that can't use a computer, they risk alienating people like me that have taken the time to get to know their OS and what it is capable of, and customized their desktop in ways the average person has not.
We are not all going to jump to using tablets, forsaking our desktop computers. We are not all going to move all our data to the cloud. We are not all going to live in our browsers. We are not all going to stop being productive producers and switch to being happy little idiot consumers that just need a few icons we can select with our chubby fingers to view what someone else has created (most likely created on a different OS designed for productivity).
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:) Damn app103, that was beautiful! :Thmbsup:
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It's telling that the company that develops that OS for idiots is smart enough to keep their desktop and tablet/smartphone OS offers separate instead of offering everything and the kitchen sink. And Lion won't include as many tablet-inspired features as Windows 8.
But then again, Windows 7 was highly flexible, and you could add and remove a great number of components, so I expect Windows 8 to follow its example, making the above problem a non-issue. And system requirements are said to be even lower, which is highly impressive on its own.
I would pay to see someone developing software with a tablet, though. Using Eclipse. Or doing software modeling with Visual Paradigm. Or using a virtual machine running any other operating system. Again, seriously guys, do you really think someone is going to force users to run tablets? Now, high-end tablets with their own monitor and peripherals is another matter entirely.
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I just about died when I read this title:
Microsoft becoming Apple with Windows 8 control freakery?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/02/tablets_go_closed/
But my panic was short lived:
Microsoft is becoming more like Apple by bringing some hardware discipline to Windows 8 tablets, to the annoyance of OEMs who've had decades of freedom.
That's probably a good thing.
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We are not all going to jump to using tablets, forsaking our desktop computers. We are not all going to move all our data to the cloud. We are not all going to live in our browsers. We are not all going to stop being productive producers and switch to being happy little idiot consumers that just need a few icons we can select with our chubby fingers to view what someone else has created (most likely created on a different OS designed for productivity).
-app103
I wish (and hope) that that were true. However, if industry pushes in that direction by making apps that only work in that area, then tablets are going to become prevalent. As they become prevalent, traditional machines will become stagnant and slowly fade away. People will stop programming them, electronic manufacturers will stop producing the parts, and they will just slowly become a relic of the past. It won't be soon, but it will happen if the majority of "the masses" do.
You can already see the decline of the desktop PC as laptops become as powerful. There are fewer available, and they have fewer options. The parts are becoming more expensive such that laptops are quickly becoming the preferred alternative for equal pricing (not there yet, but very close). If tablets become the new "laptop", I can see laptops quickly taking place of desktops for the occasionally mobile. That will drive prices lower for the laptops which will then make desktops even less desirable for most people. This, in turn, will actually drive the prices up for desktop equipment (the manufacturers will generally just leave the market for niche players that will be the custom makers of today) and make it the enthusiast piece of equipment. As it becomes more antiquated, mainstream manufacturers will start to drop these lines as marginally profitable and so components will become scarcer and the updates will be fewer and less innovative. This will mean enthusiasts will have to come up with solutions or abandon the market for more mainstream alternatives. As that occurs it will only be the richest enthusiasts, niche market players, or the corporations that absolutely REQUIRE the equipment that will pay the big dollars for the custom equipment that will then be required. Soon after that, the companies will migrate to new platforms as it becomes cheaper to replace than to maintain the legacy at which point even the niche players will move on because there is no business left to maintain. At that point the richest enthusiasts will have moved on because that is the way it goes.
Will this occur in our lifetime? Probably not, but the drop-off of the general enthusiast to something else probably will, and that is when you will be living in your browser with touchscreen everything even if you don't want to. Well that or give up on computing altogether.
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I would love to have a tablet that has the power of a desktop. With ports for external monitors (4), a keyboard, mouse, printer, speakers, etc.
I think that will happen relatively soon. Give it a few years. Manufacturers will realize that in addition to cute icons, people want productivity and portability. Laptops are marginally portable. Tablets are very portable.
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I would love to have a tablet that has the power of a desktop. With ports for external monitors (4), a keyboard, mouse, printer, speakers, etc.-Renegade
I agree! I'd love to be able to carry my computer around with me wherever I go and then connect it to a public (or private) docking station for bigger monitor, keyboard and mouse.
If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
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I would love to have a tablet that has the power of a desktop. With ports for external monitors (4), a keyboard, mouse, printer, speakers, etc.-Renegade
I agree! I'd love to be able to carry my computer around with me wherever I go and then connect it to a public (or private) docking station for bigger monitor, keyboard and mouse.
If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
-Deozaan
That is sort of where I think we are going rather quickly if truth be told. I can imagine a future where there are screens everywhere (even internet cafe type places with screens) that are just phone docking stations. These screens have a keyboard, and maybe a mouse or touch screen (a new KVM?), but that the phone is the brains, storage, network connection (why not since it is already built in - no need to have that at the KVM), and applauncher. Each person would have their PC with them always (more or less), and the docputer is nothing more than an interface to the phone so you don't have to deal with the miniscule screen for long periods of time. If I am right and we are going there, I will be on the front edge. I think that would be awesome. My fear, though, is they will try to move the apps and the storage to the "cloud" and that, in my opinion, would be BAD!
Ideally I would want to be able to use it from removable storage (only thing on the phone would be the OS and the network stack) where I keep both apps and data on something like a smart card so they can be used regardless of if I am in network range or not. I mean what happens if I don't pay my bill one month? Or switch carriers, or just even go out to the woods? Do I loose everything? Probably the way they are going now. To me, that is not acceptable and I would want to be able to use the phone as my computer regardless of any of these conditions. However, if that were to be accomplished - I am there!
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I would love to have a tablet that has the power of a desktop. With ports for external monitors (4), a keyboard, mouse, printer, speakers, etc.-Renegade
I agree! I'd love to be able to carry my computer around with me wherever I go and then connect it to a public (or private) docking station for bigger monitor, keyboard and mouse.
If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
-Deozaan
Why stop with someone else providing just the monitor, keyboard, mouse and internet link?
Have them throw in a standardized computing platform (i.e. PC) and all you'd need is a USB flash drive. Just boot from that.
Your choice of OS, plus all your apps and data, on one convenient little hunk of plastic you could wear around your neck or drop in your pocket...
Who would need to own a CPU if we did it that way? :P
Kidding, just kidding. (Sorta.) :P
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If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
-Deozaan
RUN! Run NOW! Grab a gun or knife and all the cash you can. Cut up your credit cards!
The cloud zealots are already en route to you right now! Your heresy will not be tolerated by them!
RUN~!
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If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
-Deozaan
Why stop with someone else providing just the monitor, keyboard, mouse and internet link?
Have them throw in a standardized computing platform (i.e. PC) and all you'd need is a USB flash drive. Just boot from that.
Your choice of OS, plus all your apps and data, on one convenient little hunk of plastic you could wear around your neck or drop in your pocket...-40hz
I wouldn't want that, because that's almost like just having your data in the cloud. I mean, it's great if you just want to get online, and it's almost basically what's already available with the Chromebooks running Chrome OS. But what if the publicly provided PC couldn't handle the games I wanted to play that my powerful rig at home could?
That's why I'd like to be able to buy a customized computer (not really a mobile phone) that was small like a tablet or mobile phone but as powerful as I wanted/needed for what I do and then take it with me and use wherever I want at convenient docking stations in public (school, library, airport, bank, coffee shop, grocery store (?)) or even in private (e.g. people's houses).
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I would want it as a phone instead of a USB due to the convergence. I want to be able to communicate, play, work, whatever, with just that one device. I want all my apps and data stored independent of the device, like your USB stick idea would allow, but I would also want it to be an always available communication device which it would not allow. Since the communication circuitry is already there, there is no reason to have someone else provide the connection, just use the device. As for the input and output devices (mouse, video, keyboard, etc.) I would have those provided independently not unlike a docking station is used for laptops today. You use it to make the input and display/output easier. Not necessary, just easier.
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A small storage device that has the OS and everything on it and plugs into generic hardware / terminals? It could be the size of a credit card with today's technology. But it doesn't excite me much.
Tablets have a nice form factor. They're portable. You can hold them in 1 hand. They're light. They're usable, unlike the candy bar form factor. A slide-out/detachable Bluetooth keyboard with a built in track pad would make it a real laptop replacement (basically).
Wireless electricity would make it just about perfect. (It's still being researched.)
I can't get very excited about anything in the candy bar form factor. It's unusable. I can't even play games on my phone because they're designed for the fingers of 10-year old girls. Typing is even worse. For very simple things, sure -- they work ok. But to do work? Nope. Tablets could fill that space.
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A small storage device that has the OS and everything on it and plugs into generic hardware / terminals? It could be the size of a credit card with today's technology. But it doesn't excite me much.
-Renegade
I can understand that, sort of, but if that generic hardware was a tablet sized device (and I don't see why it couldn't be) then we would be where I am talking about. The software is stored on removable storage and links up with any standard form factor hardware (whatever those standards evolve into). Probably won't happen though. Too much money to be made by differentiation. Standardization is a good thing, as long as the standard is the one that company is proposing e.g. proprietary. Standard devices? Pah, any commodity item can fit that - ours does THIS. Whatever....
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So in short, this really is the beginning of the end for computing as we know it. As more and more devices are being merged and fed the cloud. Fashion will win over function (as it always does) because work isn't fun. All we need now is for someone to finish working out how to access the human brain directly and then the only HID needed will be a single receptacle where the device connects to you. Then Apple can jack that technology and come completely out of the closet, by releasing the iButt (guess where that goes).
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If computers were the size of mobile phones, or rather, if mobile phones were as powerful as desktop PCs, with a docking station port, it would be awesome! Imagine all the places that would most likely provide keyboard, video (monitor), mouse, and internet. You could have your PC anywhere you wanted, no need for cloud.
-Deozaan
Why stop with someone else providing just the monitor, keyboard, mouse and internet link?
Have them throw in a standardized computing platform (i.e. PC) and all you'd need is a USB flash drive. Just boot from that.
Your choice of OS, plus all your apps and data, on one convenient little hunk of plastic you could wear around your neck or drop in your pocket...-40hz
I wouldn't want that,
-Deozaan
Me neither. But I don't doubt we'll eventually get something much like it - whether we want it or not. ;D
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So in short, this really is the beginning of the end for computing as we know it.
-Stoic Joker
I many respects, yes.
There seems to be an industry trend where the end-user is increasingly being seen (not without good reason) as a data "consumer" rather than a data creator.
The proposed changes in OS and interface design simply reflect that change in industry perspective.
And now that there's sufficient momentum and numbers in the very industry open standards helped create, there's a concerted effort to move away from those same standards, now that many in the industry feel "open" has served it's purpose. The same thing happened with radio and television technologies.
Even so-called open platforms like Android don't reach the consumer in anything other than locked-down forms as provided by the telcos.
What we're witnessing is the classic "wagon circling" that breaks out once any market reaches a certain level of maturity, and new customers become increasingly hard to come by. Hence the push for proprietary devices and operating systems which are locked into one vendor's app store. Apple did it. And now everybody else seems intent to follow that same business model.
And for those who want to jailbreak their devices, there's still an ongoing effort by many manufacturers to find a way to legally prevent them from doing so. Small surprise when you consider that those who most often argue for legislation and regulation usually came out of the broadcasting, telco, and cable industries.
In an interview, Steve Jobs dissed laptops and netbooks - and held up an iPhone. "This is the future." he said.
There's a good chance he may be right since it seems to be what most people want to buy. Where that leaves us geeks and techno-wonks is anybody's guess. Thank heavens for Linux. Or at least as long as Ubuntu's vision for the Unity desktop doesn't prevail.
:)
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So in short, this really is the beginning of the end for computing as we know it.
-Stoic Joker
I many respects, yes.-40hz
Damnit! ...Why can't I just once be cynical and wrong, at the same time?!?
*Sigh* At least there's still hope for the server OS's (i think...).
Where that leaves us geeks and techno-wonks is anybody's guess. -40hz
Marginally justified in being misanthropic?
Thank heavens for Linux.-40hz
It's not a bad exit strategy if need be.
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*Sigh* At least there's still hope for the server OS's (i think...).
-Stoic Joker
There will be until Microsoft decides to drop Windows Home Server. It really is a little gem. :)
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*Sigh* At least there's still hope for the server OS's (i think...).
-Stoic Joker
There will be until Microsoft decides to drop Windows Home Server. It really is a little gem. :)
-40hz
WHS? ...What...Everybody doesn't have a domain controller on their home network?!? My god! ...How do they keep track of the kids?!? (comment loosely relates to other thread - hehe ;))
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The Win8 UI video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I
There seems to be an industry trend where the end-user is increasingly being seen (not without good reason) as a data "consumer" rather than a data creator.-40hz
Thus the tablet device, which is merely consumptive, not creative -- "Stop typing your opinions and buy more shit, you donkeys!" Win8 seems to devalue the keyboard as well, despite otherwise being a move in the right direction. (Imagine if Microsoft had done Win8 when Vista was released!) Also, there's the whole facebookification of the web, which Doc Searls posted about and I'll link to soon.
There may be a way out of the current partitioning of the web via the Freedom Box:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/nyregion/16about.html
http://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/
...that is, if you ever get tired of your every move being tracked by megacorp, inc.
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OK when is Apple going to sue Microsoft on look and feel?
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OK when is Apple going to sue Microsoft on look and feel?
-Carol Haynes
Right after they patent breathing...
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OK when is Apple going to sue Microsoft on look and feel?
-Carol Haynes
Don't you mean when is Apple going to sue Microsoft on look and feel again?
They did it back in 1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation) when Windows first started using desktop icons and resizeable windows.
"Look and feel" was a legal argument Apple used to try to find a way around the (former) rule you couldn't patent or copyright an idea.
Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation, 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) was a copyright infringement lawsuit in which Apple Computer, Inc. (now Apple Inc.) sought to prevent Microsoft Corporation and Hewlett-Packard from using visual graphical user interface (GUI) elements that were similar to those in Apple's Lisa and Macintosh operating systems. The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent- protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."[1] In the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit, Xerox also sued Apple alleging that Mac's GUI was heavily based on Xerox's.[2] The district court dismissed Xerox's claims without addressing whether Apple's GUI infringed Xerox's.[3] Apple lost all claims in the Microsoft suit except for the ruling that the trash can icon and folder icons from Hewlett-Packard's NewWave windows application were infringing. The lawsuit was filed in 1988 and lasted four years; the decision was affirmed on appeal in 1994,[1] and Apple's appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court was denied.
***
Apple had agreed to license certain parts of its GUI to Microsoft for use in Windows 1.0, but when Microsoft made changes in Windows 2.0 adding overlapping windows and other features found in the Macintosh GUI, Apple filed suit. Apple added additional claims to the suit when Microsoft released Windows 3.0.
Apple claimed the "look and feel" of the Macintosh operating system, taken as a whole, was protected by copyright, and that each individual element of the interface (such as the existence of windows on the screen, the rectangular appearance of windows, windows could be resized, overlap, and have title bars) was not as important as all these elements taken together. After oral arguments, the court insisted on an analysis of specific GUI elements that Apple claimed were infringements. Apple listed 189 GUI elements; the court decided that 179 of these elements had been licensed to Microsoft in the Windows 1.0 agreement and most of the remaining 10 elements were not copyrightable—either they were unoriginal to Apple, or they were the only possible way of expressing a particular idea.
I find it amusing that the courts ruled the one of the few Windows icons that did infringe on anything was the trash can. (Now you know why Windows uses a more 'modern' Recycle Bin icon instead.) ;D
Who says the law is blind? Or that judiciary doesn't have a sense of humor. 8)
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Just strikes me that the kiddie sliding block approach to the UI is pretty much identical to the way Apple hand held devices work. It also isn't miles away from the touchscreen software produced by HP for their machines.
I can see a rather large argument happening which will mean Windows 8 won't get released until the interface design is already passé !
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I think the women have it on this one:
app103:
I am really sick of the mindset that everything needs to be "purdy at all costs", forsaking functionality and customizability if necessary in order to achieve this "purdy-ness". (You can probably thank Apple for this).... My desktop is usually covered by open windows so I rarely ever see it.... A lot of time, thought, and work went into setting up my desktop to be as productive as possible. 12 years to be exact. I resent any company that takes a few months to undo all that I have done over the course of many years, in order to appeal to people that should be using a TV rather than a computer.
-- I hated the introduction of themes in XP because besides looking ugly and childish, it took up more space on the taskbar, causing less shortcuts to fit per row.
-- I hated the removal of the ability to have additional shortcut bars on other edges of the desktop, introduced in Win7. (saw this on my dad's PC and decided not to upgrade till I found a solution to the problem)
I like the simplicity and complete customizability of the classic Win9x theme.
-- If it means not upgrading in order to keep my desktop functional to me, then so be it.
-- If it means choosing another OS to accomplish what I want, then so be it.
-- If Microsoft continues to attempt to cater to Mac users and idiots that can't use a computer, they risk alienating people like me that have taken the time to get to know their OS and what it is capable of, and customized their desktop in ways the average person has not.
We are not all going to jump to using tablets, forsaking our desktop computers. We are not all going to move all our data to the cloud. We are not all going to live in our browsers. We are not all going to stop being productive producers and switch to being happy little idiot consumers that just need a few icons we can select with our chubby fingers to view what someone else has created (most likely created on a different OS designed for productivity).
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25878.msg251038#msg251038
Carol Haynes:
...the problem [with touchscreens] is after the novelty wears off (around the 5 minute mark) they all go back to keyboard and mouse because it is quick, more accurate and less tiring to use. Who wants to use massive arm gestures when a quick flick of the wrist does the job rather better.... All this is ideal in a palm device (except when you need to type when it is utterly crap) but on a large screen it looks really childish and nerdy!
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25878.msg251030#msg251030
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Same here!
-- I can only afford one computer at a time, much less a tablet right now. In fact, I already know that for the next two years I'm going to be living very thin and lean, meaning I won't be getting a tablet device unless they... scratch that; I won't be getting one.
-- I continue to see the computer as a tool, not a toy.
-- When I can accurately type 80-90 words per minute, why in the world would I want to revert to an onscreen/block keyboard? (I'm still using old Microsoft ergonomic keyboards!)
-- As Carol notes, that UI might be good for palm device, but my chubby fingers aren't made for smartphones, much less tablets! (Does this make me handicapped?)
-- One thing I love about KDE (http://kde.org/) is its near infinite customizability on Linux.
-- The video I linked to above shows off Win8's touchscreen features, but it did not show any improvements for the keyboard and mouse.
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-- When I can accurately type 80-90 words per minute, why in the world would I want to revert to an onscreen/block keyboard? (I'm still using old Microsoft ergonomic keyboards!)
-- As Carol notes, that UI might be good for palm device, but my chubby fingers aren't made for smartphones, much less tablets! (Does this make me handicapped?)
-zridling
I have an older handheld device with a touch screen, and I hate the onscreen keyboard. I am really glad I never have to use it. I am really glad someone had the sense to make a real keyboard for it, one that folds up to about the same size as the device.
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Wow, do you actually use that folding keyboard? That looks really interesting!
- Oshyan
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Yes, I do and it's pretty good. You can actually plug the keyboard in so you can run your PDA without draining its battery and actually charge it while you are typing. It's a full sized laptop style keyboard and the keys are actually larger than the ones on the keyboard of my desktop computer.
Targus made keyboards like that for a lot of handheld devices, and I thought they would end up making one for the iPhone too, but for whatever reason they never did and seemed to stop making keyboards of that type right about the time the first iPhones hit the market.
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Well damn, so they're no longer available?
- Oshyan
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Well damn, so they're no longer available?
- Oshyan
-JavaJones
Some still are. Check Amazon.
Problem with the Targus Stowaway fold-ups was that they were device specific. AFAIK they only did them for the Palm, Handspring, and Clie.
I had one for my Sony Clie until that died. I ended up giving my keyboard to a friend who had one that still worked.
I really miss my Clie. It was a simple and reliable device that didn't try to do too much. But what it did do, it did brilliantly. I wrote the entire first draft of a book on that little bugger. Too bad Sony scrapped it's PDAs and went completely over to smartphones. :)
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Well damn, so they're no longer available?
- Oshyan
-JavaJones
Some still are. Check Amazon.
Problem with the Targus Stowaway fold-ups was that they were device specific. AFAIK they only did them for the Palm, Handspring, and Clie.
I had one for my Sony Clie until that died. I ended up giving my keyboard to a friend who had one that still worked.
I really miss my Clie. It was a simple and reliable device that didn't try to do too much. But what it did do, it did brilliantly. I wrote the first draft of entire book on that little bugger. Too bad Sony scrapped it's PDAs and went completely over to smartphones. :)
-40hz
Sounds like a typical Sony story to me. That's soooo Sony. They tease you with amazing innovations and hardware, yet they never seem to be able to strike that perfect balance in their technology. There's always something missing. And nobody makes perfect devices, but the "something missing" for Sony always seems to be a backbreaker that makes. Whenever I get Sony things, i quickly find myself saying, "If it could only do [whatever] it would PERFECT!" And then I try to look for an alternative...
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Sounds like a typical Sony story to me. That's soooo Sony. They tease you with amazing innovations and hardware, yet they never seem to be able to strike that perfect balance in their technology. There's always something missing. And nobody makes perfect devices, but the "something missing" for Sony always seems to be a backbreaker that makes. Whenever I get Sony things, i quickly find myself saying, "If it could only do [whatever] it would PERFECT!" And then I try to look for an alternative...
-superboyac
+1. Truer words were never spoken. They always give you everything but that last 2%. ;D
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Problem with the Targus Stowaway fold-ups was that they were device specific. AFAIK they only did them for the Palm, Handspring, and Clie.
-40hz
They also made them for the HP Jornada (what I have) and iPaq.
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^Ah - the Journada! That was another neat little PDA. :Thmbsup:
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I had one for my Sony Clie until that died. I ended up giving my keyboard to a friend who had one that still worked.
I really miss my Clie. It was a simple and reliable device that didn't try to do too much. But what it did do, it did brilliantly. I wrote the entire first draft of a book on that little bugger. Too bad Sony scrapped it's PDAs and went completely over to smartphones.-40hz
You want another one (Sony Clie that is)? I got one sitting in the closet I never could figure out a use for.
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I had one for my Sony Clie until that died. I ended up giving my keyboard to a friend who had one that still worked.
I really miss my Clie. It was a simple and reliable device that didn't try to do too much. But what it did do, it did brilliantly. I wrote the entire first draft of a book on that little bugger. Too bad Sony scrapped it's PDAs and went completely over to smartphones.-40hz
You want another one (Sony Clie that is)? I got one sitting in the closet I never could figure out a use for.
-Stoic Joker
Thanks. But I already gave away all my software and accessories and have since moved on to other things. And migrated all that data too. Boy was that ever a pain. Wish I got your offer three years ago! You could have named your price... ;D (Story of my life. :-\)
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I had one for my Sony Clie until that died. I ended up giving my keyboard to a friend who had one that still worked.
I really miss my Clie. It was a simple and reliable device that didn't try to do too much. But what it did do, it did brilliantly. I wrote the entire first draft of a book on that little bugger. Too bad Sony scrapped it's PDAs and went completely over to smartphones.-40hz
You want another one (Sony Clie that is)? I got one sitting in the closet I never could figure out a use for.
-Stoic Joker
Thanks. But I already gave away all my software and accessories and have since moved on to other things. And migrated all that data too. Boy was that ever a pain. Wish I got your offer three years ago! You could have named your price... ;D (Story of my life. :-\)-40hz
Mine too apparently ... Damn things been that closet for four years...
:D
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^Wonder if its battery will still hold a decent charge if it's been 4 years since it last got plugged in. :huh:
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^Wonder if its battery will still hold a decent charge if it's been 4 years since it last got plugged in. :huh:
-40hz
:-\ Good Question... I (just put it on charge) guess we'll find out in the morning... ;)
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Does anyone remember this from way back?
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dcr/work/taskgallery/
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^Wonder if its battery will still hold a decent charge if it's been 4 years since it last got plugged in. :huh:
-40hz
:-\ Good Question... I (just put it on charge) guess we'll find out in the morning... ;)-Stoic Joker
That would be a no...Much as you suspected. It was still deader than a door nail after an overnight charge. Battery looks replacable, but I haven't looked at it yet (cound be ugly...).
Does anyone remember this from way back?
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/dcr/work/taskgallery/
-Josh
I do vaguely remember that. (hehe) Talk about a blast from the past ... Cool find!