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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Carol Haynes on February 12, 2007, 12:28 PM

Title: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 12, 2007, 12:28 PM: Sorry to say I will be offline for an indefinite period - my new MOBO just blew a gasket and I am going to have to argue with ASUS for an RMA.

The computer was left switched on and when I came back a few hours later all I had was a blank screen and it would reboot.

I removed everything except for CPU, Graphics Card and Memory and I still get no response when I switch on.

I have changed CPU, used a single graphics card (and swapped it) and used a single stick of memory (and swapped it) all with no result.

I have plugged a second computer (the one I swapped the CPU from) to the monitor and it works fine.

Must be the mobo causing the problem but I don't know how long it will take to get it all back up and running again.

I will probably be able to pop in occasionally on this computer but I woun't be around nearly as much until it sorted out.

TTFN
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: mouser on February 12, 2007, 12:30 PM: Let us know if we can do anything to help Carol!
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 12, 2007, 12:39 PM: oh dear. good luck.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: tinjaw on February 12, 2007, 04:57 PM: Sorry to hear that. :( I hate having to deal with stuff like that. I wish you luck getting it back up and running soon.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 12, 2007, 06:26 PM: Thanks all - I just hope ASUS are helpful and quick tomorrow ...
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Josh on February 12, 2007, 06:32 PM: If we promise to miss you will you please go away?

Just kidding, hope all goes well :)
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 16, 2007, 04:54 AM: ASUS are neither quick nor helpful ....

It took them 3 days to send me a form to complete which I then have to return and get authorised. After that I have to post the board to them for testing (at my expense) plus send them a cheque to cover return postage (so far a total of over £30 / $60) and then wait for a 4 week turnaround !!

In the end I have sent it back to Overclockers (at least that way I get free return postage) but 4 weeks isn't good - especially as it has been nearly a week now and it hasn't even got to ASUS yet!
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Redhat on February 16, 2007, 05:40 AM: Sorry to hear that Carol! No manufacturor's warranty? Please tell me you got the 'super-bang-whizz omg 3yr extended-warranty available today for special price'?? :D

edit - totally lost track of thought there. What I meant to say is - can't you take it back to retailer for a refund?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 16, 2007, 06:55 AM: I sent it back to the retailer - but they send it back to ASUS for warranty replacement.

I will get a replacement (presuming they don't try and fix my board!) but it will take around 4 weeks at ASUS - plus shipping via the retailer etc. so realistically I am probably looking at 5-6 weeks turnaround time.

I can't wait that long so I have ordered a replacement while I wait - when it arrives I will either build a new system (I have a case/PSU and memory that will work so I would just need a CPU for which I can pick up a cheap Athlon 64 3200+) or simply keep it as a spare!
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 16, 2007, 07:28 AM: it's a sad tale but it's another example of how computer hardware retailers have their own set of rules.

i'm no expert and i might be talking complete rubbish but isn't it the UK law for the retailer to replace the faulty product - like there and then on the spot? not make an excuse that they have to send away.

that's what it seems to look like when i read the 'customer's rights' in newspaper columns every few months, and yet all computer retailers seems to have their own set of rules that they like to print out on the back of receipts.

i think you'll know more about this than me, Carol, but i wonder about it none the less.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: mouser on February 16, 2007, 07:35 AM: i think your decision is a good one carol, a spare is always a good thing. plus it gets you back here faster :)
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Redhat on February 16, 2007, 08:48 AM: Sale of Goods Act (Key Facts) -

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 16, 2007, 09:17 AM: thanks for that RedHat. i'm still not entirely sure what the retailer is obliged to do. sending things back to the manufacturer sounds like an unreasonable way of doing business - i can't imagine high street shops telling customers they had to wait 4 weeks until a replacement arrived. maybe that's because high street shops just like being nice though.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Lashiec on February 16, 2007, 10:22 AM: Hummm, in Spain if the component is still in warranty, they replace it right away, but even then, four weeks for a replacement is a bit too much, and asking you to pay some expenses it's a bad decision on Asus' part. If the motherboard is faulty, their responsibility is to change it free of charge, not demanding you to pay as if it was your fault.

I hope I won't run into issues with the motherboard I have ordered (an Asus as well ;D)
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 16, 2007, 10:54 AM: Actually I don't really think it is Overclocker's responsibility to replace a motherboard after 3 months use - it is Asus that makes the guarantee, not the dealer.

Having said that they have 10 in stock so they could simply test it and then issue a replacement and claim a mobo for stock which would effectively be the same and they would have dealt with the problem in a more useful manner.

As I understand it they have to ensure that the goods are 'fit for purpose' which an ASUS mobo is - it is hardly their fault if a component which is usually trouble free fails.

I still rate ASUS as a manufacturer - it is just their service department I am not at all happy with - and I will be telling them so in no uncertain terms.

When I have had hard discs die in warranty I have been sent a new drive with packaging to return the old one before now - and even ATI replaced a graphics card on a much more friendly basis than ASUS.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: f0dder on February 16, 2007, 11:00 AM: IMHO it should be the company that has the "customer contact" that should have the main responsibility for shipping replacements. It's the one you did business with, and it's the one that certainly has an office branch in your country...
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 16, 2007, 01:14 PM: that's how i understand it to work with most things - if not everything other that pc stuff.

if you took a faulty mp3 player or tv or whatever back to the store you got it from you'd expect it replacing there and then - or a refund. no questions asked. well, maybe a bit of a discussion first but i'd be surprised to be told i've got to wait 4 weeks for a replacement.

i just wonder if the terms and conditions pc retailers show to their customers are actually valid. i know they must have a terrible time with loads of things being returned - but hey, they chose to go into that line of business (one of the reasons i wouldn't do it).

anyway, i'll shut up because i have no idea. i just think it's unfair.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 16, 2007, 03:10 PM: I understand what you are saying but the mobo is over 3 months old - the retailer can justifiably argue that I have accepted the goods.

As I understand it they don't have to refund or replace an item if the goods were as specified and the customer accepted the goods. Overclockers will accept returns up to 28 days for any reason which is way beyond the Distance Selling regulations but they argue that outside that period the warranty is with the manufacturer.

I have had other things that have gone wrong after a period of time and insode the warranty where the retailer simply says you need to send it back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement (and argue with them for a refund if that is what you want). The terms of the warranty are replace or repair (at the manufacturer's discretion).

It wasn't Overclockers that said a 4 week turnaround - they stated they would test the item and if it wasn't working they would return it to the manufacturer for warranty replacement. It was Asus that told me they have a 4 week turnaround - which given that the dealer will confirm it is defunct is a little excessive in my opinion.

I am in the strange position of defending the retailer - but I do understand their point. If they offered to repair the item they would probably invalidate the warranty as only ASUS can do repairs.

Another example, if I buy a TV from a High Street box shifter (such as Argos) which has no repair facilities I can't see they would replace goods that died just before the end of warranty (or after a policy based period) they would expect you to use the warranty service - that is what warranty is. Almost all warranties say 'repair or replace at the manufacturer's discretion' and I can see how a retailer can assess which the manufacturer would want to do - esp. if they don't do their own repairs.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: TucknDar on February 16, 2007, 03:10 PM: This sort of thing is a favourite with Norwegian "consumer-tv programs" (if you know what I mean by that). The dealer is responsible for any faulty products in that they've actually sold the product to the end user... in Norway, at least. :-\
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 16, 2007, 04:43 PM: i understand what you mean, Carol.

it's just wishful thinking on my part.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: f0dder on February 16, 2007, 04:46 PM: In Denmark, when online shopping, there's a 14-day no-questions-asked full return warranty, since you haven't had a chance to "check it out before buying", no questions asked. Product still needs to be in decent condition though. This does mean that I could buy a harddrive, use it temporarily for saving some data, and then return it. Dunno if that goes for software too, and shops wouldn't be happy if you did it often I guess :)

On top of that, there's a 1-year (or was it changed to 2-year?) warranty against the "I didn't do anything but it stopped working" flaws. Which of course doesn't cover spilling coffee into a laptop, but it does cover a motherboard that suddenly stops working. Might require filling a RMA and waiting a bit, though.
Title: Back up and running .... EU consumer law ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 17, 2007, 08:40 AM: Hi f0dder,

there's a 14-day no-questions-asked full return warranty

Actually this is true throughout the EU as it is part of EU consumer law. However the minimum time allowed throughout the EU is 7 days (but I suppose some countries may increase that minimum) and lot's of sellers extend this to 28 or 30 days (though they don't have to). After the 'free return' period you are deemed to have accepted the goods and then any warranty is between you and the manufacturer - not the supplier unless the supplier is used to manage the warranty.

It covers any product at all that you buy mail order. In the UK they are called the "Distance Selling Regulations". See http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/DSR/default.htm for full details of what is and is not covered - interestingly even gift voucher purchases are covered.

There is an exception however for software, CDs and DVDs ... you can only return them if the seals/packaging is unopened - so you can't 'try before you buy' with these items or copy them.

By the way I am now back up and running .... new mobo bought from DABs - even including next day/saturday delivery the total was less than overclockers.co.uk before VAT and basic shipping! Presumably over the next few weeks the warranty replacement will arrive - but at least I have proved it wasn't other components in my system that caused a problem!
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 17, 2007, 11:34 AM: good to hear you are up and running with the machine.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 20, 2007, 06:58 PM: Spoke too soon ... I am really cross with someone (not sure who though).

My original mobo arrived back today with a note saying they can't find any fault with it. It cost me over £18 (~$35) to post it back under warranty but they claim when they tested it everything was fine. Not only that they are charging me a £10 inspection fee plus return shipping plus tax for the privilege.

Anyone any ideas how to proceed now? I seem to have a mobo that was definitely dead when I posted it to them (I had spent a day and a half fiddling with every possible combo of components, even those from another system and it wouldn't POST no matter what I did - in fact there was no video output or even a beep when it was switched on). The new mobo is using all the same components and works fine.

Trouble is if it is an intermittent fault I could end up stuck with a lemon that plays up at home but tests in the workshop and I am really stuck as to what to do next.

What I have done is written a really snotty email complaining that they didn't follow their own procedure (which was to contact me before returning an item that wasn't found defective) and so I am not prepared to pay anything since the problem is effectively unresolved and now can't be without me spending another $35 to return it to them. Basically I have told them if they make a charge on my credit card I will report them to my card company as I have not authorised any transaction and didn't supply credit card details for the purpose - they only have my card details as it is stored in my account for website purchases. Should I approach my credit card company for a refund on the original purchase on the grounds that the item is 'not fit for purpose' ?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: mouser on February 21, 2007, 12:43 AM: Trouble is if it is an intermittent fault I could end up stuck with a lemon that plays up at home but tests in the workshop and I am really stuck as to what to do next.

Many of us have suffered from this situation - can be truly painful. We had a vcr like this back in the day when vcrs were expensive. each time we brought it in it seemed to work for them.. Eventually, and i'm not recommending this, we took an electrical cord and just burnt out some of the components on the board. It was the only way we could figure out to get them to repair this broken device..
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 21, 2007, 01:46 AM: i'd definitely stick my heels in about the point of not paying them because they didn't contact you first. if that's what they clearly state then they are def. at fault in my view.

does the motherboard actually work now? is it worth using it for a while to see how long it will run for - maybe it will work fine? or, if you can't trust it even if it appears to work - use it as a secondary backup machine or something.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 21, 2007, 03:15 AM: It did occur to me to ensure the board didn't work before I returned it.

Any ideas on how to blow a chip (and not me) without it looking obvious or doing any other damage?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 21, 2007, 04:27 AM: Carol, have you tried the board now since it's return? could it be that they've sent you and new board but are pretending they haven't, i.e. so they give the impression there is nothing wrong with their products. i know, i know, paranoia.

(what did you think to my personal message i sent you?)

to destroy any equipment - isn't it common to plug a 12v car batter into it? that's what they do around my way. it's not something i've needed to do myself but i know someone that did it to a standalone dvd recorder (and probaly several other things).
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 21, 2007, 04:30 AM: No it has the same serial number as the board I sent in.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 21, 2007, 04:44 AM: i think you perhaps need to just get the new machine up and running. if it runs without trouble then your problems are over. whatever happened - if the board now works, just be happy about that.

maybe something they've done to the board has cured it without them even realising. is that possible i don't know. i've certainly had electronic equipment that worked better if you hit it hard enough.

but, the money problem, i'd still kick up a fuss about them not contacting you - shout loud enough and you may eventually get through their thick skull that you aren't to be messed around and they'll give you what you want and more, just to be rid of you.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Lashiec on February 21, 2007, 05:39 AM: Could it be something related to the PSU? Maybe there are some problems with the internal circuitry, causing it to not be able to deliver full power to the computer :huh:

But apart from that, I really don't know, at least in what concerns to the 'technical' part. Try to connect everything firmly, I fixed some problems with my computer during these years like this.

Glad to know you have another way to hang around here, though. :)
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 21, 2007, 08:02 AM: The PSU is, I suppose, a possibility but it is a high quality PSU (and cost a lot) and it worked fine for 3 months and is doing so again now.

The duff setup was taken apart so often and put back together again so that i am pretty sure there were no loose fitting compnents and is one reason I reduced the system down to a single graphics card, single memory module and a CPU 9and then swapped them all for working components from another machine). It's all very strange.

As I said to nudone in a PM I have ordered a new CPU, PSU and a graphics card and I will retest the old board when they arrive (I don't want to keep experimenting with my main system) so we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on February 23, 2007, 06:33 AM: Don't read if you are sensitivee to bad language
F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** BUGGER!

Set up the returned board yesterday - guess what - didn't POST.

Phone tech support - try using a screwdriver to boot it (rather than the front panel switch) .... strangely it booted.

Rebuilt system - all work fine

Ran MEMTEST 86+ all night - no memory errors this morning

Put in Windows installation disc (blank HD in there) and rebooted and guess what - won't POST AGAIN. Now doesn't matter what I do (with or without screwdrivers).

Called tech support - please send it back ...

So far this board has cost me £18 to send it back + £25 they have charged me for testing and return and now it will cost another £18 to return it again - a total of £61 !

I can buy a new board for under £100 should I cut and run on this one before I throw good money after bad ?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: nudone on February 23, 2007, 06:48 AM: i wouldn't trust them again. what you do beyond that i can only refer to previous advice.

maybe you could give it away as a prize for something?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Lashiec on February 26, 2007, 06:01 AM: Looks like something difficult to find. Must be some faulty component of the motherboard giving problems out of the wazoo, maybe a capacitor, resistance or whatever. If they don't change it for a new one (something than in the shop I'm going to buy most of the components for the new computer they do), use it as a drawing board or something ;D
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Lashiec on April 19, 2007, 06:36 AM: It seems that the forum doesn't mark edited posts as new posts... sorry for the double post.
And this is the day of resurrecting threads on my part. So, Carol, would your PSU happens to be an Antec NeoHE?
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on April 19, 2007, 07:03 AM: Yes - no probs though since I replaced the mobo
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Lashiec on April 19, 2007, 12:10 PM: Ah! That explains everything! Earlier models have some problems with the Asus mainboards due to the high efficiency of the PSU, which conflicted with some of the functions of the mobo :huh: (or something like that ;D). I learned this the other day over at Silent PC Review while reading some Antec cases reviews, in this case the PSU got together with the Antec P150.

Well, I'm glad you solved the problems :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Apologese - I will be offline for a while ...
Post by: Carol Haynes on April 19, 2007, 12:12 PM: Bizarre - PSUs that are too good for the mobo .... weird idea