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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Josh on July 13, 2010, 04:49 PM

Title: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Josh on July 13, 2010, 04:49 PM: Apple continued to be on the losing end of a public relations battle Tuesday over a "Not Recommended" rating from Consumer Reports for its iPhone 4. Some industry watchers have gone as far as to suggest a recall is something the company may need to consider.

The latest round of bad news was courtesy of Wayne State University Professor Matthew Seeger, who told Cult of Mac that the brand image of Apple could be at risk and said the company will be forced to issue a recall.

Others told the Apple enthusiast site that the company needs to act with more urgency, calling Apple's response so far lackluster and even irresponsible. While there seems to be general agreement that Apple has responded poorly, some see a recall as too harsh a step.

Citigroup analyst Richard Gardner said in a note to clients that he saw the risk of recall as low, saying the antenna issue was not serious enough to warrant such an action. He argued that Apple should be giving out free "bumpers" to those with problems, and wouldn't affect overall profit margins more than 1 or 2 percentage points.
-Ed Oswald

Source @ Betanews (http://www.betanews.com/article/Apples-iPhone-4-woes-deepen-as-some-see-recall-inevitable/1279040534)
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: zridling on July 13, 2010, 09:35 PM: Absolutely, but given that Jobs & Co. were busy deleting entire Apple forum topics devoted to this subject for the past 48 hours, it's unlikely unless there's a class action suit. Meanwhile, there's no way Apple is going to give away iPhone bumpers (http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-no-way-apple-is-going-to-give-away-iphone-bumpers-for-free-2010-7) for free.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Josh on July 14, 2010, 06:12 AM: (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/06/500x_steve-jobs-full-bars.jpg)

Steve Jobs demonstrates how to properly hold the iPhone4
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: nudone on July 14, 2010, 06:43 AM: heheh, brilliant.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: daddydave on July 14, 2010, 07:24 AM: Haven't there been tons of cellphones with crappy antenna reception? How many of them got recalled?
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Eóin on July 14, 2010, 07:29 AM: True, but they weren't designed and built by God himself.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: 40hz on July 14, 2010, 07:34 AM: The logic of Steve Jobs:

a) To issue a recall would be tantamount to admitting a mistake was made or that there is a design flaw.

b) Apple does not make mistakes or experience design flaws like everybody else.

Therefor...

~~It finally happened to us just like everybody else. This is Apple's first really major design flaw.~~

There is no design flaw because Apple is not like everybody else. :P
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Josh on July 14, 2010, 08:14 AM: Haven't there been tons of cellphones with crappy antenna reception? How many of them got recalled?
-daddydave (July 14, 2010, 07:24 AM)

How many of them work only if you hold it "that special way"?
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: daddydave on July 14, 2010, 08:20 AM: Haven't there been tons of cellphones with crappy antenna reception? How many of them got recalled?
-daddydave (July 14, 2010, 07:24 AM)

How many of them work only if you hold it "that special way"?
-Josh (July 14, 2010, 08:14 AM)

Some of them don't have a special way! You just return it and get a superior product!
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 14, 2010, 10:52 AM: The design is an intentional discrimination against left-handed people - :o - We should sue!
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Eóin on July 14, 2010, 11:23 AM: Stoic Joker: you should just this suit (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/01/apple_sued_over_iphone_4/) :D
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Stoic Joker on July 14, 2010, 11:29 AM: Stoic Joker: you should just this suit (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/01/apple_sued_over_iphone_4/) :D
-Eóin (July 14, 2010, 11:23 AM)
Hm... Nope, can't do it. That requires that I actually buy one of the silly things (Ick!) before I can join in.

My way all I need to be is left-handed ... and I are.

:D
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Deozaan on July 16, 2010, 02:03 PM: Looks like Apple is offering free bumpers:

Apple CEO Steve Jobs responded to weeks of criticism over a faulty antenna in Apple's iPhone 4, saying that the phone's flaws are no worse than other smartphones. Still, he said Apple would give a free case to all iPhone 4 owners to fix reported signal problems.

Still not happy, iPhone users? Jobs had another solution: Return the phone.

"This is life in the smartphone world," Jobs said. "Phones aren't perfect.

[...]

Then Jobs said the reception problem with the new iPhone exists with several other phones including the HTC Erid Droid Android and the Samsung Omnia II. The demonstrative CEO was also in a joking mood.

"X Marks the spot," Jobs said, mocking the irony of a small mark existing right where the problem seems to occur on the iPhone 4.
-http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Apple-Ready-to-Give-Us-the-411-98555839.html?8889900
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: nite_monkey on July 16, 2010, 04:51 PM: I figured all phones (even my el cheapo dumb phone) would lose some signal if you covered the antenna... though some more than others (iphone 4)
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: JavaJones on July 16, 2010, 05:50 PM: The problem with the iPhone 4 design is it puts the antenna on the outside of the phone (which most phones don't do) *and* it's bare metal, not insulated or covered in rubber or something (as some other external antenna phones do). Really this is a major design oversight by Apple. They should have known than putting the bare metal of the antenna on the outside was a bad idea. But they probably thought shiny was better, so... ;)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: zridling on July 16, 2010, 11:16 PM: I was wrong. But I found it funny that Jobs begrudgingly offered bumpers: "If you need one, we'll issue it, are you happy now?"

Weird, angry quote.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: mwb1100 on July 16, 2010, 11:54 PM: I figured all phones (even my el cheapo dumb phone) would lose some signal if you covered the antenna... though some more than others (iphone 4)
-nite_monkey (July 16, 2010, 04:51 PM)

From what I understand about Consumer Report's tests, the problem on the iPhone 4 seems to have to do with your fingers bridging 2 ends of the antenna that are normally separated by an air gap. That's why a bit of duct tape that covers a few centimeters of the antenna across the gap can 'fix' the problem (and also why the bumper fixes the problem). I think that there are few phones where you can easily 'short-circuit' the antenna in this way.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 17, 2010, 09:26 AM: So... do people think that the research that was shown was a lie? Also, do people think that with the way the phone fiasco happened earlier, that something like this was never seen before?

He also said a free case- not necessarily a free bumper case. You get to choose which case you want.

I was wrong. But I found it funny that Jobs begrudgingly offered bumpers: "If you need one, we'll issue it, are you happy now?"

Weird, angry quote.
-zridling (July 16, 2010, 11:16 PM)

Source? I didn't see that in the video...

Also... http://www.apple.com/antenna/

Interesting approach.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Deozaan on July 17, 2010, 01:36 PM: Also... http://www.apple.com/antenna/

Interesting approach.
-wraith808 (July 17, 2010, 09:26 AM)

Ha! I love how the index finger is stretched way to the top of the HTC Droid Eris. Holding it with your index finger across the top like that has got to be very uncomfortable. No one would hold it like that while actually trying to use it, since you can't actually use the phone in that position (can't text or use the touch screen (look how high up the thumb is) or anything). Also, look at the red mark on the person's thumb. It looks like whoever is holding the phone is putting a lot of pressure on it to make the blood rush to the surface of his thumb.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Deozaan on July 17, 2010, 01:55 PM: Take a look at this and decide for yourself whether that $100 million was wasted:

Apple has invested more than $100 million building its advanced antenna design and test labs. Our engineers have logged thousands of hours designing and testing iPhone 4 in these state-of-the-art facilities.
-http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 17, 2010, 02:33 PM: Speaking of antenna & reception, I think that the GPS sensibility (or, better, lack of!) of the 3Gs model was way even a much bigger thing.
How iPhone's users accepted to have to buy a costly car kit with another GPS receiver inside to use a GPS enabled smartphone as a car navigator is beyond me.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: 40hz on July 17, 2010, 03:04 PM: Well...I saw Apple's 'press conference.'

What it all boiled down to was little more than Steve Jobs saying T.F.B. and "deal with it."

I would personally like to suggest Mister Jobs hold it "where the sun don't shine."

---------------

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Note: Be very interesting to see how well his argument that the iPhone is totally unique one moment, and no different than any other phone the next will play out. I hope the tech press calls him on this one. They've created a monster by letting him get away with stuff like that.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 17, 2010, 03:37 PM: This guy called him out already:

Twitter - Marty Mobile (http://twitter.com/MartyMobile/status/18750869800)
Not much of an apology from Jobs; and he's simply wrong about other phones being comparable. A little humility would serve him well.

He (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Cooper_(inventor)) should know a thing or two! :)
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 18, 2010, 09:19 AM: More from consumer reports:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-iphone4-free-bumpers-for-antenna-problem-signal-loss-issue-flaw-press-conference-news-consumer-reports-ratings.html

And a response from RIM:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/17/rim-co-ceos-apple/
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 18, 2010, 09:32 AM: Jobs made a big mistake bringing other phone's giants into question:

Pocket-lint - HTC: Droid Eris complaints nothing compared to iPhone 4 (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/34374/htc-droid-eris-antenna-complaints)

Jobs said that only 0.55% of iPhone's 4 customers called in about reception issues.
HTC now say they instead got only 0.016% of complaints for similar problems.

It's entirely possibile that the numbers refer to differents things, based on differents sampling & parameters from the two companies; but starting the whole confrontation seems a big mistake on Jobs part.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 18, 2010, 10:08 AM: I totally agree that Jobs' comparisons were a bad idea, as was his whole persona during the conference. I think that the words said in regards to solving the issue were good:

He said they will waive re-stocking fees on the iPhone, it seems like they're giving an out.
He also said that for those who choose to keep it (or still buy it), they're giving the bumpers which solve the problem.

I'd hazard a guess that we'll see a refresh before they manufacture more, but are also trying to get the ones that are in the chain sold as they do. But the original question was should they do a recall. They didn't... does anyone think they still should given that this is not a safety concern and they did address consumers of the product?
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 18, 2010, 11:01 AM: I'm not sure...
But there's something that definitely sounded a bit incorrect in their doings.
They never presented any kind of bumper / case along side a new phone, so that point to them having knowledge of the problem and trying to rub it off. Also, there's no way they couldn't have expect that a naked, exposed antenna could bear problems like those.

I think the obvious way to keep up with that design would have been some kind of insulating coating or some other kind of supercifial treatment, but that may have been skipped due to costs or not having the ability to process enough to meet the initial demand.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Deozaan on July 18, 2010, 03:36 PM: Apple will also offer refunds to customers who have already bought the Bumper, Apple's only case for the iPhone 4. Those who have already bought third-party cases are not assured of a refund, though Jobs said those who did want their money back can write to Apple and "we'll consider the request."
-http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-iphone4-free-bumpers-for-antenna-problem-signal-loss-issue-flaw-press-conference-news-consumer-reports-ratings.html

Emphasis added.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Josh on July 18, 2010, 05:44 PM: I find it amusing how many people are attacking sites like consumer reports for still not recommending the phone. To me, it makes sense to not recommend the product unless the issue that caused them to not recommend it has been fixed. This issue has not been fixed. A workaround has been given.

It still leads me to wonder if the cases will be given with each new iPhone4 or if they will only be given if the user requests them. If the latter is the case, then that sounds wrong to me as many users will remain unaware and think their phone has an issue which could be avoided with a free addon from Apple.

The other part of the issue which urks me is the fact that this free offer expires. What about new phones purchased after 30 September? Will users of the affected phones be able to swap for a working model once, if, the issue is fixed in a future design? If not, then this issue will just reappear as news in September when the free offer expires.

This whole situation leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth for Apple.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Deozaan on July 18, 2010, 05:55 PM: I find it amusing how many people are attacking sites like consumer reports for still not recommending the phone. To me, it makes sense to not recommend the product unless the issue that caused them to not recommend it has been fixed. This issue has not been fixed. A workaround has been given.
-Josh (July 18, 2010, 05:44 PM)

The "attacks" I've seen against Consumer Reports is that CR themselves have rated the iPhone 4 as the best smartphone out there, yet at the same time they also do not recommend getting it because of a major design flaw.

It seems wholly contradictory on Consumer Reports' part.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 18, 2010, 09:34 PM: The other part of the issue which urks me is the fact that this free offer expires. What about new phones purchased after 30 September? Will users of the affected phones be able to swap for a working model once, if, the issue is fixed in a future design? If not, then this issue will just reappear as news in September when the free offer expires.
-Josh (July 18, 2010, 05:44 PM)

It doesn't expire in September. What he said was that they would take a look at it in September to see if this was still the way to go, i.e. is there another way to correct the problem at that time.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: zridling on July 19, 2010, 11:44 PM: http://www.slate.com/id/2260619
Farhad Manjoo of Slate said the press conference came with an overly “condescending” message. He summed up the event’s message this way:

Still, if you want to be a total jerk about it and keep insisting there’s a problem with your magical iPhone, Jobs has an offer for you. “OK, great, let’s give everybody a case,” he said. Happy now, whiners?

I just wish Jobs could have handled this mini-crisis in a classier way. His data clearly show that the new iPhone is dropping more calls than the old one. He could have admitted a problem, offered a fix, and said, "We're sorry for any trouble we caused you." Instead, he sounded wounded and paranoid, as if we were all being ungrateful for not recognizing Apple's contributions to the world. "We love our users so much we've built 300 Apple retail stores for them," he claimed at one point. Wow, thanks, Steve—all this time, I thought you built those stores just to sell stuff! He said that a Bloomberg Business Week report that he'd been warned about potential antenna problems was "total bullshit." At another point, he asked a questioner, bizarrely, "What would you prefer, that we're a Korean company? Do you not like the fact that we're an American company leading the world right here?"

What I'd prefer, since Jobs is asking, is a company that doesn't pee on my leg and tell me it's the "most revolutionary rain storm ever!" A free case is all well and good. Just lose the attitude, Steve. You screwed up. We know it. You know it. Just admit it.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 20, 2010, 07:35 AM: “OK, great, let’s give everybody a case,” he said.
-zridling (July 19, 2010, 11:44 PM)

It seems that the wounded paranoia is being inferred more from the writer... that quote is a lot different than the previous one in tone and such, at least from the writing. And he didn't sound condescending when he was on the press conference at all IMO- the idea to include the other manufacturers in his 'study' was just ill-advised.

Other than that, they've done everything they could at this point IMO.

1. Offered refunds
2. Offered a case if you don't want refunds
3. Said they'd revisit in September

I just don't see what else people could want, personally. They want mea culpas with their fix- for Apple (by way of Steve Jobs) to be humbled. You're entitled to a fix- not a mea culpa based on what you think happened (i.e. that they knew about it before it was released).
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 20, 2010, 02:17 PM: This Video show in an extremely clear way that the "Death Grip" issue is totally different from what happen with other phones when you cover some spots.

http://vimeo.com/12864890

So, no Steve, this doesn't happen with other phones. Not at all! :)
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: zridling on July 20, 2010, 04:53 PM: This Video show in an extremely clear way that the "Death Grip" issue is totally different from what happen with other phones when you cover some spots. So, no Steve, this doesn't happen with other phones. Not at all! :)
-Mark0 (July 20, 2010, 02:17 PM)

Death grip? Try one finger in the video. Amazing. My question always is: Really Jobs, really? You didn't NOTICE this before final approval?

Point is, Jobs' response to this problem tells us a lot about the man and his ego -- when a billionaire can't control the world, he gets pissy with the rest of us.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 22, 2010, 10:09 PM: Classic!

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/20/antenna-aid-bandages-your-iphone-4-reception-issue-hopes-for-ro/
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Josh on July 23, 2010, 08:14 AM: A band-aid, what a fantastic idea.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: wraith808 on July 23, 2010, 09:36 AM: If you liked that one:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/iphone-end-call-sticker-is-an-ironic-solution-to-your-receptio/
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 23, 2010, 12:24 PM: Samsung responded:

(http://imgur.com/u4wSp.jpg)

;D
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: nudone on July 23, 2010, 01:51 PM: heheh, brilliant.
Title: Re: Should Apple recall the iPhone4? Or should the user "Hold the phone the right"?
Post by: Mark0 on July 23, 2010, 04:28 PM: Even more from Samsung:

electronista - Samsung UK giving away Galaxy S to jaded iPhone 4 owners (http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/07/23/samsung.gives.run.of.galaxy.to.iphone.malcontents/#ixzz0uXkI0gn8)

Samsung UK's attempt to jab Apple is now known to also include giveaways of free phones. Some iPhone 4 owners complaining of reception problems, whether directly related to the "death grip" or not, are being offered free Galaxy S phones, in some cases receiving them the same day as the notice. The Korean company explained the handouts as a way to "spread the word."