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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: rjbull on December 16, 2010, 11:39 AM
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I just tried updating RoboForm to the 6.10.1, which doesn't (yet) work. It just brings up the URL but doesn't fill anything. The installation process loaded the RoboForm page as usual, but didn't say the copy was registered. Instead, it's showing that they upgraded from v6 to v7, which would be a paid upgrade for me, and fairly expensive, especially as I licenses for two fixed-PC copies of AI RoboForm v6 plus one for portable RoboForm2Go v6.
Has anyone upgraded, and if so, what do you think, please?
What's New in RoboForm 7 (http://www.roboform.com/how-it-works/whats-new)
A Fresh New Look and Feel
We've updated our look including a new customizable editor.
RoboForm is Everywhere
Updated browser and mobile device support includes IE, Firefox, Chrome, iPhone...
Keep Your Passwords In Sync
Integrated Online Sync Service keeps your data backed up and in sync at all times.
Improved Password Capture
Less intrusive password save prompt making it easier for you to save passwords.
Online and Offline Options
Use our Online Sync service or store your data locally. The choice is yours.
New Multiple Login Feature
Log in to multiple sites with a single click.
Improved Bookmark Management
Import, Organize, and Sync your browser Bookmarks.
Better Language Support
We now support Unicode characters for improved international support.
Better Organized Menus
Popular features are now easier than ever to find.
Most Popular Logins
In addition to Recently Used, we now display your Most Popular Logins.
Site Icons
Your Logins have never looked better. Favicons make it easier to find all your logins.
It All Works Faster
Complete architectural reorganization speeds up everything.
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As it happens, I was just rebuilding my work system yesterday and ran into the same problem you mention. However, the problem cleared up, and it worked for me a little later yesterday afternoon.
But when I first encountered it, I logged a support query with them, and I had a reply this morning. The important part of that reply was:
Go to http://activate.roboform.com/?lang=en in the browser to which RoboForm has attached
From that URL, you can enter your name and your Order ID to register your existing copy.
As to the upgrade... Their licenses are pretty expensive, and I'm having a hard time seeing that it's worth the expense.
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I tried the beta fairly recently and it didn't work well. They are also going towards a ribbon like interface, I believe. So that's what I noticed. I switched back to v6 for the time being. As long as the ribbon isn't too big or has the option for the classic or smaller toolbar, I think I'm ok with the upgrade. It is a pretty awesome program. Works very well.
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Roboform 6 is fantastic. It's got some annoyances particularly around the user interactions, but it does what it's intended to do very well. From the quote above, it sounds like v7 might smooth some of the UX annoyances, but I'm not sure it's worth the $$.
They are also going towards a ribbon like interface
-superboyac
I'm a big fan of the ribbon in Office (although I hope this comment doesn't spur further debate!). But I have to say that it's not always appropriate. In particular, I think that it's been a bad thing for SnagIt. At least the way they've divided up the various ribbons, it now takes me quite a few extra clicks to do my usual thing, compared to the old version. My point is that a ribbon in RF could be a positive or a negative, it's not clear until we actually interact with it.
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As to the upgrade... Their licenses are pretty expensive, and I'm having a hard time seeing that it's worth the expense.
-CWuestefeld
I'm glad somebody else said that. I've wanted to like Roboform for a long time. I think it's a fine app as far as it goes. But I always thought it far too expensive for what it does.
I had this same discussion with a few friends last week when one of them began extolling the virtues of RF. Most of us had tried and liked it. But we all (but one) thought it not worth the asking price for the convenience and features it provided.
It does, however, continue to sell - so not everybody is on the same page with me and my friends.
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I'm a Roboform customer but switched to Lastpass a year ago and haven't looked back.
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Depends on what you use it for. One of the major new features they hide under "fresh new look" is that secure notes now are usable, "the editor" I think. Very slick with real time search and what not.
7 just made Roboform too expensive. Older versions were sold on "lifetime" updates/upgrades, you also got the online account for free. Not so any more. New business model with yearly fees, typical "for this version" upgrade policy and they are screwing over those who recently paid for 6. Only go back a few month for a free upgrade. If 7 "suck" or "is not worth it" I think change of license has much influence on that opinion.
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The important part of that reply was:
Go to http://activate.roboform.com/?lang=en in the browser to which RoboForm has attached
-CWuestefeld
Thanks, CWuestefeld! :Thmbsup: And - once I went to look for it - I found I already had those instructions in the original e-mail from them from four years ago - doh! :-[
As to the upgrade... Their licenses are pretty expensive, and I'm having a hard time seeing that it's worth the expense.
It looks to me like most of the improvements are to the UI, and whether those are "improvements" or not is in the eye of the beholder. Good product, but very expensive for these cash-strapped times.
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I switched to LastPass over a year ago, and I have two desktop licenses, one Robo-2-Go Flash Drive, and a Pocket PC license also. Back throughout 2008 Roboform would not keep up with Firefox releases. Anything that was called a beta was not supported and even when FF would make an official release Roboform was taking at times 2-3 months to release a version that would work with it. Plus as a long time user I knew the support folks from way back; that all changed and they started using support techs who were very short, non-informative, and non-helpful. I tried a few other apps but once LastPass got going and it worked so well for me I paid for the Premium license and have stuck with it ever since.
There hasn’t yet been a release of Firefox that LastPass didn't work for me. So far, anyway.
Thanks!
Jim
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I had this same discussion with a few friends last week when one of them began extolling the virtues of RF. Most of us had tried and liked it. But we all (but one) thought it not worth the asking price for the convenience and features it provided.-40hz
Once you've used it for a while, it's hard to live without. I normally start new logonIDs in KeePass; less slick, but more versatile, and free. But most logons I put into RoboForm for sheer convenience. Haven't tried LastPass, though. I thought that was a Web service, and I'd rather have an app.
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Oh, I just checked their website and I can definitely live without it. They want half the prices over again for me to upgrade - yet all my licenses were so-called "lifetime" licenses. And my discount for this Everywhere subscription crap is $10.00, making the first year $9.95... But that is the current discounted price for everyone! So I get no discount for this POS.
You know, Slysoft switched to a regular license model recently but for new customers only! Plus they announced it a month in advance and offered the lifetime licenses one last time at a 20% discount. Even then, after hearing from customers they put the changes off for a year!! BTW, all existing license holders still have lifetime licenses; our licenses were not affected by the change. And yet still there were a lot of complaints here at DC about it!
Now Roboform is doing similar, but in their case existing customers do not get to use their lifetime licenses anymore. Instead we are abandoned and must pay to keep using the product. Obviously this won't directly affect me as I am not using RF now, but by virtue of the fact that I purchased FOUR licenses that were never supposed to expire, I am being shat upon as much as any RF user.
Some companies are honorable about changes like this. Apparently Siber Systems is not one of them.
Jim
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Just to join the chorus, I just took a look and can't see where 7 would benefit me.
Most of the updates to 6 had no impact on my use of it.
$19.95 to upgrade seems somewhat expensive. Everybody has to make a living, I suppose.
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I normally start new logonIDs in KeePass; less slick, but more versatile, and free. -rjbull
Agree. That's what I use. And no matter how many other pwl apps I try, it's what I keep coming back to.
Haven't tried LastPass, though. I thought that was a Web service, and I'd rather have an app.
Also agree 100%.
I do not get using a web service for storing something as sensitive as passwords.
Have synchronized Flash Drive - will travel. :Thmbsup:
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KeePass is ghetto. :D
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For what it's worth I have been using RoboForm for a couple of years alongside Password Depot (http://www.password-depot.com/) (app-based). I'm ready to dump RoboForm now, partly because of the upgrade cost. Returning to Password Depot (been using it for several years) which allows you to set up a USB installation as well. Works differently to Roboform - doesn't embed itself into the browser but instead works as a kind of ribbon that you can autohide if you want.
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Strange with ideas of what is safe. Everything of some value to me is in the sky or vault in far away country :) 24/7 worldwide login to both web and normal applications is the way to go. Another new feature in version 7 is it can handle login in to programs. Not sure how great it works but that is probably going to be a major feature towards business clients.
I would guess most do get risks about letting browser auto-remember and insert codes but much in Roboform is also overkill and can be seen as bloat and annoying. They need a simplified version of Roboform, cut down to the bone. Can even take away secure notes, just keep free upgrades from 6.x, 5.x licenses. Ok to charge for online sync though. Majority of those now running to Lastpass etc. would stay and perhaps buy stuff later. They would also live up to very old promises as much as can be expected. Now they are idiots :)
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KeePass is ghetto. :D
-superboyac
Huh? What do you mean? I use Keepass - not as my primary password manager but as a secure backup for all my passwords - online and off.
Jim
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I *think* the upgrade fee is only applicable if you try to install Roboform 7 AND select the option to sync passcards online. At least, that's what I hope, because like a dope I just paid the $9.95 and kept going. However, it only cost me the $9.95 and I was able to upgrade both my Roboform Pass2Go installations and my desktop installation... My intention was/is to put the $10 down to rash stupidity on my part and not renew in a year's time. If I am then asked to pay for another year's subscription I'll be back here effing and blinding something fierce!
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Nope, not unless you recently bought a 6.x license and get a free upgrade. Those 2 licenses I have are 9-12 months old so since Roboform Online used to be free total upgrade cost for same features is 40$. Because I have 2 licenses I save 5$ for each. Would not be surprised if they mess up payment page as well.
If you purchased your license before September 1, 2010, as an existing RoboForm Pro user you still qualify for a discount on your upgrade for a limited time. To enjoy all the benefits of RoboForm 7, please upgrade your order here.
How long can you wonder about benefits is not clear. Next step must be to make sure 6 does not work with latest browser versions.
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I didn't bother paying for the upgrade to my existing licenses (Roboform 7 Pro for Desktop and Roboform2Go) and just paid the $9.95 for Roboform Everywhere (as I hinted above, I wish I hadn't, really) and all the Roboform installations that I've upgraded are fine...
I *really* hope that I don't get any nasty surprises... I haven't upgraded my wife's install, yet. I also took advantage of the Bits du Jour sale and bought two more desktop licenses, which I haven't used yet. We'll see, I guess :o
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Wow! I stand corrected - I've just reviewed the v6 to v7 upgrade link on Siber System's site and see that I am wrong about Roboform upgrades. Not happy! However, I no longer recall if lifetime licensing was ever their policy? I suspect that they simply didn't charge for upgrades in the past, rather than having a stated lifetime license.
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There's no temptation for me to upgrade since I haven't used it in quite a while.
They are probably having to get a lot more out of each active user/customer now since I suspect the number of users has dropped a lot since the coming of Lastpass.
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It is a 180 degree turn from them. Developers should not be locked in to year old optimistic promises but they could easily have made transition easier to accept. There is no choice other than to bend over.
There is a site called lifetimelicense.com or something like that. There a Roboform rep. say "In my 11 years at this company we have never charged for upgrades" blah blah. Without guaranteeing they have definitely sold Roboform on 1 time payment. Now all is changed, accept or find new tool. I would have chosen something in between if possible. Can see 7 is not just a polished 6 and also ok to pay for online sync but too many changes too fast :) Also they are idiots, at least marketing dep. is.
I bet 90% of non-business users would be more than happy with a limited 7, most probably also without any online bank. Feature like log-in to applications is for the few.
Site is Lifetimeupgrades.com - may be a scam but am sure I saw the quote there www.lifetimeupgrades.com I have also seen someone finding their old site in Google Cache where they clearly say "lifetime upgrades". Roboform acknowledge (on twitter) but say that was for older versions ;) New site, new version, new rules. Stupid way of dealing with customers.
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OK, so we're all agreeing that we're not very interested in paying for a RF7 upgrade.
As far as I can see, the alternatives are either LastPass (http://lastpass.com/) or KeePass (http://keepass.info/index.html). I evaluated these some time ago. As 40hz said earlier, it doesn't seem right to store this stuff in a web service, so I eliminated LastPass. I installed KeePass, but I was entirely unable to get any browser integration to work at all.
Does anybody know of a tutorial on how to get KeePass to integrate with the web browser?
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I installed KeePass, but I was entirely unable to get any browser integration to work at all.
-CWuestefeld
+1 (I think it's broken.)
FWIW I have never been able to get that feature to work reliably either. And that's despite doing exactly what they tell you to do.
So yeah...if anybody has any insights on how to fix this I'd be glad to hear about it too. :)
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Give up, Lastpass use AES-256 encryption on your local hard disk so just as safe as Keepass. If browser integration means less risk of keylogger, and it does if you are paranoid or extremely careful, you can argue more. Have not checked but I would think it is possible to disable sync, is not mandatory or necessarily automated. Obviously the great idea behind their service but if you can avoid Lastpass might be acceptable?
Actually it is mandatory and I was thinking about Xmarks ;) Well still encrypted etc. http://helpdesk.lastpass.com/ Anyway, in case of attack main target will not be Lastpass servers but your computer but of course there should be some sort of trust towards them.
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I just went back and looked at the KeePass page. It looks to me like there's a new plugin for integrating with FireFox (unfortunately it won't help for other browsers)
PassIFox (https://github.com/pfn/passifox/) extension for Firefox
Implements a transparent replacement for the built-in Firefox password storage
As I read it, this should do the integration properly. Anybody care to try (I'm going away for the next week, won't have a chance).
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I'm surprised Mouser hasn't built Robo's same capabilities into FARR yet considering his wunderkind does just about everything else except slice bread and pay taxes.
I'm also surprised he continues to give away licenses for that little software gem when Siber asks for - and gets - $30+ for a less versatile product.
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Here's an article mentioning the Roboform license model change: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml)
And here's a Roboform Purchase page from Aug 2008 care of The Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20080822215550/www.roboform.com/why-pro.html) It doesn’t say "Lifetime" specifically but at the top you can see "Free Upgrades" displayed. They have always claimed free upgrades - for good. E.g., I started using RF at V.3 or 4, when it was free only. Then in 2003 I purchased two Pro licenses for V.5. All upgrades since then have been free, until now.
Jim
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Thanks for the links, Jim. I'm glad that I only paid $9.95, but sort wish I'd stuck with v. 6 out of principle. I'm pretty annoyed that as a beta tester for getting on for a year I was not notified in any way of the change in licensing policy and, petty of me to point this out, received not one cent off in recognition.
This whole thing reeks of the Collectorz fiasco from a couple of years ago...
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This mess is a good example of why an old school forum beats twitter, Facebook in communicating with customers. This almost year long beta testing would not have gone unnoticed on a forum. People would have asked questions months ago, may be it would have been possible to guide Roboform in the right direction. Tweets and here is a link to our support and here you can win an ipad on Facebook is not of much use. They are in control ;)
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I just went back and looked at the KeePass page. It looks to me like there's a new plugin for integrating with FireFox (unfortunately it won't help for other browsers)
PassIFox (https://github.com/pfn/passifox/) extension for Firefox
-CWuestefeld
There are also:
- KeeForm - http://keepass.info/plugins.html#formfiller
Opens websites and fills in the login data automatically, for Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox. - KeeFox - http://keepass.info/plugins.html#keefox
Bridge between KeePass and Mozilla Firefox. - KeePasser - http://keepass.info/plugins.html#keepasser
Allows auto-typing into webforms based on URLs instead of window title. (Only for IE and Maxthon 2?)
I haven't tried any of them (yet).
Siber Systems couldn't find me as a customer, despite RoboForm 6.10.1 correctly activating! It's true I changed to a different e-mail, but they could surely have searched by other criteria.
I have now alerted Siber Systems (in the support ticket) to this thread to give them a chance to reply.
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Roboform just released its first update to v.7. I've just gone through the process of updating my two Roboform2Go installations and my desktop installation, which has prompted me to marvel again at how incredibly confusing the new licensing policy is... WTF? AFAICT, by paying $9.95 for the first year, I am entitled to use Roboform Everywhere on any machine/USB thumbdrive but standalone (IE not sync'd to the cloud) installations are $20 a pop to upgrade from 6 to 7? Seems like a no brainer to me, from a dollars and cents perspective, but it also seems too good to be true.
Incredibly shitty job of alerting customers to the changes in policy and, even worse, in explaining how their nightmare licensing scheme works!
BTW in a fit of magnanimous stupidity, and in the spirit of "supporting development", at some point early in the beta testing cycle I bought a license for Goodsync Professional. Two issues arise from this: first, when I bought the license I was under the impression that I was getting lifetime updates upgrades (whether this was explicitly stated somewhere or whether it was a response to a "we haven't charged for upgrades in years" blog or forum post, I can't recall) and second, are they going to pull the license switching stunt with it as well? Also to note, with the beta a freebie version of Goodsync was included with the install and was sufficient to synchronize Roboform databases between machines/drives/and the cloud, use of Roboform Everywhere now requires a paid installation of Goodsync (though I've just failed to find the reference, so I may be out to lunch).
Overall, I've worked myself into a lather... I need to calm down. If my interpretation of the Everywhere licensing model is correct, this is not the end of the world. However, I just can't help feeling pissed off at how the switch was handled. Particularly annoying is that as a beta tester I wasn't even offered the courtesy of a "heads up" e-mail about this before I upgraded the beta to the final release. The $10 is a non-issue for me (yes, Darwin is a lucky boy not to be too het up about $10), but the "principle" really rots my socks...
>:(
Edit: see strikethrough
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AFAICT, by paying $9.95 for the first year, I am entitled to use Roboform Everywhere on any machine/USB thumbdrive but standalone (IE not sync'd to the cloud) installations are $20 a pop to upgrade from 6 to 7? Seems like a no brainer to me, from a dollars and cents perspective, but it also seems too good to be true.
-Darwin
I'm not sure why you feel $9.95 in first year and $19.95 annually thereafter is too good to be true.
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AFAICT, by paying $9.95 for the first year, I am entitled to use Roboform Everywhere on any machine/USB thumbdrive but standalone (IE not sync'd to the cloud) installations are $20 a pop to upgrade from 6 to 7? Seems like a no brainer to me, from a dollars and cents perspective, but it also seems too good to be true.
-Darwin
I'm not sure why you feel $9.95 in first year and $19.95 annually thereafter is too good to be true.
-Dormouse
I don't. But in the context of having two Roboform2Go licenses and 5 Desktop licenses, $9.95 to keep all of them up to date vs. $20 to upgrade each is a bargain!
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It's called taking people hostage:
- Sell a product with free lifetime upgrades/updates
- Promote widely and get millions of people hooked in to the product
- Change the licensing model
- Blackmail people into coughing up to keep access to their passwords.
It is blackmail because whilst you can carry on using version 6 you can guarantee that next time Firefox is updated v. 6 will be broken and how long before it starts working with other supported browsers.
Personally I have hundreds or passwords (pretty much all randomly generated and complex) and moving to another app is not really an option now unless there is a totally foolproof import option.
I have the choice - cough up or suffer enormous amounts of inconvenience. That is called blackmail pure and simple.
If they want to change the licensing model that is fine but they entered into a contract with their current customer base which they should honour. Someone will take them to court at some point - let's start a class action!
Personally I have no interest whatsoever storing my passwords on their servers - and after this can they really be trusted ... they could just as easily change the confidentiality agreement in the future!
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Well, the server concern might keep you from LastPass then Carol. But in case you decide to try it anyway it is not difficult to move the logins from Roboform to LastPass. You use the Print List (Full URLs) in Roboform, open the resulting file in a text editor and paste that into LastPass's Import form tool. You have to do the logins separate from the Safe Notes. Make sure to export the list in a readable format also (from RF) so if you see any items that didn't hit the correct fields in LastPass - occasionally custom notes - and then you can edit the few cards that need it. I had over 700 logins in Roboform so just to be certain I broke mine down into blocks of 200, as some folks had problems with large numbers of logins importing. However LastPass claims they have solved any such issues, though I haven't tried again.
Worth a try if you really don?t want to pay Roboform more cash.
Jim
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Has anyone noticed if they had a "free" roboform everywhere license when they went to upgrade using their name and existing order?
When I went to the "upgrade" purchase page, I noticed I had 1 roboform everywhere license ... didn't see anything about it expiring (though I haven't installed the app, still using roboform 6 and 2go 6).
I don't plan on "upgrading" anytime soon. Siber Systems should do the right thing and grandfather in existing customers with unlimited upgrade policy for any existing licenses.
My fear is that Firefox 4 or with any new browser, V6 will be incompatible.. :(
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No it cost money here. Roboform Online was free, Roboform Everywhere not.
I have not tired latest 7 but one of the improvements is Goodsync has become part of Roboform. Should no longer be needed to sync, happened month ago. If that has also changed Im starting to think they really are truly idiots and not just idiots in the sense they have evaluated market/customer base with a calculator, figured how to squeeze most $$$ out of it.
Import from Roboform is a build-in feature of Lastpass, also instructions. If worried check their forum http://forums.lastpass.com/ for bugs. I imported at least 200+ in one go. I am sure someone has already made posts in Feature Request section about how much it suck Lastpass either has 1 single button or 1 wide toolbar. No option of placing buttons individually, next to address bar or where ever. If used to that there could be a problem. Optional entries in right click menu does not help much. Am reminded I did not dump Roboform because it is no good, 7 experience was nice and smooth until their license tricks.
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Does anyone have experience with 'Clipperz' (http://www.clipperz.com/ (http://www.clipperz.com/))?
It's an online password storage system like LastPass (at least to some degree - since I haven't use either for more than 5 minutes, there are probably some significant differences).
I like the idea of being able to get to my stuff from anywhere over the Internet, but I'm a little concerned about trusting my stuff to an online entity (even if the vendor is on the up-and-up and is trying to do everything right, if they become a target of criminals, who knows what little mistake can cause the exposure of my data?) Anyway, Clipperz has some attraction to me in that it's open source (http://www.clipperz.com/open_source/clipperz_community_edition), so I can take their PHP files and drop it on any hosting service and have my own private setup for this.
From my brief look, it appears to use client-side JavaScript crypto to encrypt your data, and embeds the encrypted database into the page when you log on. This also lets Clipperz have a feature where it'll produce an HTML file with the encrypted database and the JavaScript that can decrypt it (after the master password is provided) so you can have a read-only copy locally (or on a USB stick). With this, if you don't want this data on the Internet at all, you wouldn't necessarily need to even have the PHP webserver accessible on the big Internet - you'd just need a copy accessible on your local home network (I'm not sure if the Clipperz PHP files will run on a Windows webserver, or if it needs/prefers Linux).
I have no idea how well it manages auto logon to websites, but I'm not particularly interested in that - copy-n-paste of credentials will work well enough for me.
It's probably not quite as easy as I might be thinking, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience (or even no-experience, but opinions) with this stuff.
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I tried Clipperz about a year and a half ago, before I went with LastPass. It wasn’t that bad; worked OK on a lot of sites but had trouble with more than I expected. And the development, while steady, wasn’t moving along very fast. I made a number of suggestions and while the developer seemed receptive it will take a long time to build it up to where it needs to be IMO. Seems like a one-person show almost. LastPass was more advanced and covered more pages at that time.
Jim
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Import from Roboform is a build-in feature of Lastpass, also instructions. If worried check their forum http://forums.lastpass.com/ for bugs.
-Bamse
Trying lastpass (alongside RoboForm 6).
Whilst I am initially quite impressed with LastPass there are a couple of issues:
- imported just over 1000 RoboForm logins - all imported with issue BUT it doesn't always match fields correctly when filling a form which is a PITA (ie. it imports complete roboform logins but doesn't always configure them correctly for use).
- I am a little concerned that you are relying on their server being up and running 24/7/365 to ensure you can use randomly generate passwords
- Lastpass export to CSV is useful but doesn't seem toe export everything (I can find note or identities - although I am sure they are there somewhere!)
I think if I was starting from scratch LastPass would be nearly ideal but as a move from RoboForm there are still some gremlins.
Anyone know an easy (and multi browser) desktop app that allows import of Robofrom and works entirely on the PC?
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Anyone know an easy (and multi browser) desktop app that allows import of Robofrom and works entirely on the PC?
-Carol Haynes
I agree that lastpass is a bit buggy in places - still purchased the premium package on a whim ($12, and then you get to use a USB 'key' that adds in a layer of security) in an effort to find an alternative to Roboform. I mentioned earlier that Password Depot is quite decent (though not perfect) as a desktop app. I don't know if it imports Roboform passwords though it says it imports .csv and .xml (never tried).
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...imported just over 1000 RoboForm logins - all imported with issue BUT it doesn't always match fields correctly when filling a form which is a PITA (ie. it imports complete roboform logins but doesn't always configure them correctly for use).[/li][/list]
-Carol Haynes
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] I've yet to find any CSV transfer that went completely smoothly. :(
Any time I do a massive import project I'll always pass the CSV file through Excel and do some manual housekeeping first.
It's a lot easier to make sure the field sequence is correct for all records since the oddballs and singletons stick out like a sore digit and are easier to fix. Or at least it's easier than paging through 1K worth of record pages and fixing them one by one. You can also do some format fixes and massive search & replaces if you need to. I'll also usually cut and paste columns to match the default field sequence in whatever I'm importing to rather than play mapping games with the field names. Anything to minimize bad surprises.
And I bet you already do all that, right? ;D
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I mentioned earlier that Password Depot is quite decent (though not perfect) as a desktop app.-Beth UK
Could you expand on Password Depot, please?
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Roboform > Lastpass isn't a CSV import unfortunately - it is an HTML file.
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I have sent my "plea" to Siber Systems asking if they will honor their "free" upgrades to existing customers prior to v.7.
I haven't seen anything official from them in regards to old customers who purchased software in good faith after experiencing what the product(s) does and "free" upgrades incentive.
I understand that "free" upgrades isn't a sustainable system but please think about your existing customers, at least grandfather in existing customers, make it time limited even (assuming company sent an email out saying something like new license change, please respond by x date to keep your old license system active).
Wonder if Siber Systems hosts an official forum ... hah! that would be a riot. ;D
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Official Answer from Siber System:
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------------=
" RoboForm ver 6 is still not requiring additional payments
and you can use it without any hindrance
RF ver 7 is a MAJOR upgrade and as such it requires new payment.
this is our 1st major upgrade in 6 years "
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Sooo... v2 thru v6 were just bug fixes?? umm.. dang.. I know something is wrong.. just not sure what.. >:(
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;D
As documented above, I've paid the $9.95 to upgrade to Roboform Everywhere (though, again, at the time I really didn't know what I was upgrading to or for or why). I'm "sort of" glad that I did because I have a year to see what pans out and to look for alternatives. I don't use Firefox so going back to v.6 is always an option for me. I now own a Windows phone and would like to use Roboform on it as well. If over the coming year Siber systems gets an update to their Windows Mobile version that runs on WP7, I might stick with Roboform.
However, to stress this point:
I am seriously unimpressed with how this was handled and with the responses that I've seen from Siber Systems thus far. Roboform is ABSOLUTELY indispensible to me (I have 650 passcards that, as Carol's experiements show, will be VERY difficult and time consuming to transfer), so I can't afford to switch without being sure that its replacement will do the job. Ultimately, it's all about transparency - I don't mind paying a yearly fee - this was handled badly.
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It is about money. Make upgrading to 7 free for <1 year old licenses and affordable for the rest, lets say 10-15$, and there would not be so many complaints. Their argument about much improved product would be heard and acknowledged. New business model would not be praised but accepted. There are not that many relevant alternatives to start with. Since they are idiots they dont understand. But of course if majority are sheeps with money or caught in a corner with 100s of passcards they might go, look at our sales before calling us idiots! Our tactic of keeping info to our self until the last moment has paid off.
My 2 licenses will not be used again but I still think Roboform is the best tool for this job. Lastpass is ok and will probably improve in a flash but I am annoyed about having to switch. Mostly based on principles of not dealing with ##%& :)
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Of course it's about money! I don't begrudge Siber Systems the need to generate some revenue but, as you point out Bamse, they should have been upfront about what they were doing.
I don't kinow - perhaps we DC'ers are a special breed and I live in fantasy land, but had Siber Systems somehow contacted its existing user base and explained both the necessity and the mechanics of the change, I think people would have been fine with it. Instead (AFAICT) they simply released v.7 and existing users updated only to discover that the Pro version was no longer activated. Not too swift (and a bit morally bankrupt, I think). All this has done is piss people off, particularly given that sticking with v.6 will be a viable option for only so long. Browser updates will likely render it useless - IE9 will be out soon and Firefox, Chrome, and Safari are updated frequently, so the window during which v.6 will remain viable will be very brief indeed.
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Handling of transition completely blows regardless of $$$ but in the end it is about money. Just wanted to point that out. With a fair upgrade policy majority of "cheap bastards" would accept change. They can be tossers all they want provided they don't charge too much for what is seen as too little.
Now 7 has introduced application logins it is possible their focus is on business world and private users can come along or just go away. They are acting like unprofessional idiots but can still be very nifty evaluating spreadsheets showing revenue stream ;)
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I mentioned earlier that Password Depot is quite decent (though not perfect) as a desktop app.-Beth UK
Could you expand on Password Depot, please?
-rjbull
I'll try! Password Depot is a desktop password application made by AceBit. It's not new, but it is regularly updated. I have run it alongside Roboform and LastPass and keep returning to it as my preferred password app. It can run in a number of ways but I tend to have it as an autohiding toolbar at the top of the screen. You can store program passwords as well as www passwords, do backups, print lists for extra precaution if you choose, and it works across browsers (you define your primary and secondary browsers). I use it with Opera, Firefox and rarely IE. Later versions have the ability to capture and store passwords (mostly successful but with glitches here and there just like RoboForm). You can store to FTP, hard drive or USB, and also run it from USB (no extra cost).
I don't have time to do a full review right now but having used it for several years I do find myself returning to it in times of crisis. Importantly, you are not locked into to server-side storage.
Far more features than I can describe here (password generation and time-limiting on passwords so you are reminded to change them - if you choose. There is a trial period so you can try before you buy.
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I don't use Firefox so going back to v.6 is always an option for me.-Darwin
I'm using Firefox 3.6.13, which is recent, and RoboForm 6.10.1, the last of the v6 series, works fine for me. Of course, I don't know how long that will continue.
I am seriously unimpressed with how this was handled and with the responses that I've seen from Siber Systems thus far.
As I wrote above, I notified Siber Systems about this thread in the online ticket I submitted when 6.10.1 wouldn't activate. They did neither told me how to activate - thanks again, CWuestefeld - nor replied to my invitation to view this thread, which I thought would give them a platform to make their case. All they did was ask if I wanted to "upgrade" to v7.
Roboform is ABSOLUTELY indispensible to me
I find it so very convenient that I'd miss it badly. But being out of work, in an economy that's on the rocks, I'm resistant (well... partially) to paid upgrades, especially ones that are badly handled. And if it stops working, well,
Got along without you before I met you
Gonna get along without you now
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/g/gonnagetalongwithoutyanow.shtml
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I'll try! Password Depot is a desktop password application made by AceBit. It's not new, but it is regularly updated. I have run it alongside Roboform and LastPass and keep returning to it as my preferred password app.-Beth UK
Thanks! Is it "limited" to passwords? The key feature of RoboForm is its ability to fill in forms, not just store passwords. For "just" passwords, I use KeePass, which is free, and can fill forms as long as you tell it how beforehand (I haven't tried the addons for formfilling as such). I presume you've tried KeePass and prefer Password Depot?
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@BethUK: Thx for suggesting Password Depot. I took a quick look, and that might just be the thing to lure me away from my old fav Keepass. Have to download it and give it a trial.
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Note: I just noticed there's a version available for the iPhone. Its currently listed as being free over at the AppStore. Not much info provided other than a brief description. Wonder if it syncs with the desktop version?
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I'll try! Password Depot is a desktop password application made by AceBit. It's not new, but it is regularly updated. I have run it alongside Roboform and LastPass and keep returning to it as my preferred password app.-Beth UK
Thanks! Is it "limited" to passwords? The key feature of RoboForm is its ability to fill in forms, not just store passwords. For "just" passwords, I use KeePass, which is free, and can fill forms as long as you tell it how beforehand (I haven't tried the addons for formfilling as such). I presume you've tried KeePass and prefer Password Depot?
-rjbull
I use it for all online log-ins so it'll remember your username and password and other fields too :)
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I use [Password Depot] for all online log-ins so it'll remember your username and password and other fields too :)
-Beth UK
Sounds good :) It's time Siber Systems had some competition ;)
Just noticed it's not a lifetime license, but the now-common major version type:
The price includes free upgrades to interim releases (e.g. from 1.0 to 1.3).
Well, at least you'd know that going in.
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It seems Wilders Security forum has a Roboform thread. Link (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=288309)
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BTW in a fit of magnanimous stupidity, and in the spirit of "supporting development", at some point early in the beta testing cycle I bought a license for Goodsync Professional. Two issues arise from this: first, when I bought the license I was under the impression that I was getting lifetime updates upgrades (whether this was explicitly stated somewhere or whether it was a response to a "we haven't charged for upgrades in years" blog or forum post, I can't recall) and second, are they going to pull the license switching stunt with it as well? Also to note, with the beta a freebie version of Goodsync was included with the install and was sufficient to synchronize Roboform databases between machines/drives/and the cloud, use of Roboform Everywhere now requires a paid installation of Goodsync (though I've just failed to find the reference, so I may be out to lunch).-Darwin
Update: I was just prompted to update my GoodSync installation and noted that there is a beta for GoodSync 9 (http://www.goodsync.com/how-it-works/beta) available. Note this at the bottom of the page:
Pricing
* Ver 9 beta is free for ver 8 users.
* When ver 9 comes out as official release, there will be lower upgrade price for existing users.
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Sorry why not use the free version of SyncBack from 2brightsparks.com
Does everything that GoodSync can do and is free.
If you want a more powerful option go for SyncBackSE or SyncBackPro - reasonable prices and helpful company.
See http://www.2brightsparks.com/
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Sorry why not use the free version of SyncBack from 2brightsparks.com
Does everything that GoodSync can do and is free.
If you want a more powerful option go for SyncBackSE or SyncBackPro - reasonable prices and helpful company.
See http://www.2brightsparks.com/
-Carol Haynes
@Carol - do you have any strong opinions about the paid versions of SyncBack - performance and stability-wise? I'm due to update some similar software I'm not über happy with, so I'm open for recommendations right now.
Anything you'd care to share would be appreciated. :)
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@Carol - sorry, I posted a truncated version of the missive I had intended. I am not particularly tied to GoodSync but was pointing out that SiberSystems is also looking to renege on their (presumed) lifetime licensing for it as well. Anyway, thank you for the pointer to SyncBack - I'll take a look :Thmbsup:
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I bought the Pro version because I got it half price and wanted to show some support for 2brightsparks. The free version would have met my needs.
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@Carol - do you have any strong opinions about the paid versions of SyncBack - performance and stability-wise? I'm due to update some similar software I'm not über happy with, so I'm open for recommendations right now.
Anything you'd care to share would be appreciated. :)
-40hz
40hz, have you considered Super Flexible?
http://www.superflexible.com/
I use it and am happy with it, but I wouldn't mind exploring the SFFS vs. Syncback discussion. I like SFFS, except for some complaints about the interface. It looks like Syncback's interface is better, but I wonder if I would miss any of the features from SFFS.
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40hz, have you considered Super Flexible?
http://www.superflexible.com/
-superboyac
@SB - Not yet. But I will definitely give it a look. Thx! :Thmbsup:
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FWIW SFFS works well for me. (Or should that have been FWIW SFFS WWFM?)
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FWIW SFFS works well for me. (Or should that have been FWIW SFFS WWFM?)
-cranioscopical
I'm still waiting for the thought-to-text software to mature. Who needs keyboards?
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FWIW SFFS works well for me. (Or should that have been FWIW SFFS WWFM?)
-cranioscopical
LOL! 8)
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FWIW SFFS works well for me. (Or should that have been FWIW SFFS WWFM?)
-cranioscopical
LOL! 8)
-40hz
I think what you really mean is:
(http://aram.dcmembers.com/wp-content/uploads/images/lol-level1r.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsSth9szPxQ)
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Roboform replies, on betanews, to negative reviews.
Source (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/RoboForm/1014298205/1)
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Added my 2p on BetaNews
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Not much of a reply. The gist of it is "We're sorry you feel that way about it." Welcome to one more manifestation of the art of the empty gesture.
At no point do they address the issue of renegging on their former 'lifetime' upgrade terms. Even in the face of two comments directly calling them out on it.
Apparently the company has rationalized things sufficiently to itself that it doesn't see the need to honor it's license with former customers; or enter into any meaningful dialog to resolve the issue other than invite people to contact them privately.
Very sad.
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We want to make everyone happy. If you feel we are still not justified in charging for upgrades please contact us at the emails below. Perhaps we can find a way to make you happy and keep you as a customer for life.
I read this as they would love to shut you up . Would be fun it some get free upgrades because of crying emails. They will announce new found love and then hell break lose again. Worse solution than none/ignoring I think.
"Customer for life" sounds kind of scary.
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By the way, they've updated the listing to 7.1.7 and the old bugs still persist. Not only are you getting to pay for the product, but you are getting something which does not work properly.
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The last straw for me is that, having paid the $9.95 for Roboform Everywhere in a numb-nutted, touchy-feely, what the heck moment, I am now no longer able to use RoboformPass2Go on my thumbdrives - the two licenses that I have purchased no longer activate. I'm looking at LastPass now (thank you, Carol, for your comments about it on the Betanews thread).
I'll be expunging my system of both Roboform and GoodSync if LastPass functions as promised.
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he recession hit everybody and software developers don’t make an exception. Therefore, in order to best deal with this situation, some companies have decided to take immediate action and make some important changes to their licensing model. Now, most companies did this with a sense of ethics... but not all of them, so this article covers the most recent example of how NOT to go about this kind of changes.
First things first though: a company that took notice of the economic changes a long time ago was Slysoft, the developers of the popular AnyDVD. The first measure they took was to switch from dollars to euros.
Of course, as time passed by, new measures were required and so, recently, the company announced yet another change to its licensing program: the switch from lifetime licenses to yearly subscriptions.
Why is this example worth mentioning, you ask. Well, because in both cases, Slysoft not only announced the changes at least a few weeks before making them, but they also offered a 20% discount in the weeks prior to the change. Obviously, all current registered users were not affected by these changes, they didn't have to pay a single cent or change their subscription plan.
How not to change a licensing model (http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Not-To-Change-A-Licensing-Model-171188.shtml)
By the way, I posted my rather lengthy retort to Bill on fileforum as well. Carol, thanks for posting yours. I am hoping they decide to honor their previous licenses.
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I don't want to defend Roboform too much because they did break their lifetime upgrade policy, but I do completely understand and somewhat sympathize. I've said it many times here, I have no idea how developers can sustain themselves by offering freeware OR lifetime upgrades. The lifetime upgrade policy is the same as freeware, just with a one time fee up front. It's impossible to sustain forever. The only way it's possible is if you already have a lot of money or you have a lot of volunteers working for you. But who is in that situation? If you have written good software, the userbase is going to grow. As it grows, your work is going to increase. Not just for developing the program, but supporting it also. And you're going to do that all for free forever? No way, I don't see how. So I understand Roboform changing their license policy. I'm not defending the way they did it, but I understand why they had to do it.
As for Roboform, aside from the licensing issues, I still prefer it over all the other programs. So i don't mind paying the upgrade fee. Sure, I would have preferred a free upgrade, but I'll pay if it means I can keep using Roboform. I really like the program. And I know Lastpass and the others are good also, but it's not worth changing for me. I'd rather pay whatever it costs. For me to change, in my mind, is like a $200 hassle. So anything below that, I'm fine with. I wasn't always like this. But I've been very fortunate the last 5 years, my salary has increased quite a bit, and I'll pay a few extra dollars for comfort.
But I also sympathize with all the users who got screwed by the lifetime thing. Maybe it would have been best to only apply the new licensing to new users, but it's tough. People have to make money. I'd rather they implement a klunky licensing policy change, instead of going out of business.
I really don't get the freeware model. I don't even think I like it, because of what it means to me. I mean, I love getting free software from mouser, skwire, etc. but I almost wish they'd force me to pay them. Why? Because a lot of these freeware developers are really awesome at what they do: they have great attitudes, great skill, great creativity. If someone gave them a lot of cash to comfortably develop some software without worrying about their other lifestyle issues, I feel we'd see some amazing programs. I've secretly wished I could start a company with the people here as programmers, pay them well, and come up with some software and suites that would blow the roof off of all of these "enterprise" companies. Oracle? Oracle makes billions off of their software, and it's not even that good. The design isn't great, not very creative, very bloated. Now, imagine we get the talented programmers from DC here, start a company, and start creating a lot of little programs (coding snacks) but not for free. Charge a little bit for them. Provide good support, really focus on fine tuning the interfaces/speed/code/etc. to get them exceptional...it would be a great thing.
There's enough talent here, in my opinion, to start a company that can create excellent solutions for people. Imagine if you guys were doing it for a living instead of just on the side. I'm 99% sure the quality of the programs would surpass anything out there right now. With a little bit of proper marketing, the tools would really start to catch on. The great thing is that you wouldn't have to hide behind any gimmicks like a lot of big companies whose software quality isn't good, they just have nice interfaces or a big name. The difference is that the software's quality would speak for itself. So if people were initially hesitant to commit to it, the quality would soon make them give in.
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I do sympathize with them. However, like you said, that does not excuse them from the licenses they sold to people. Free upgrades is what was sold to me on all 7 of my licenses. Now, I either have to stick with v7, pay over 100 dollars to upgrade them all to their equivelant license in v7, or pay yearly to use the product that I thought was a one time fee.
I do understand their position, and I do understand why they made the change, however I feel that old users should be grandfathered in or offered something more than "10 dollars off one year of RF Everywhere" or "10 dollars off each desktop license you choose to upgrade". That is a slap in the face to me as a user who was forced to purchase 2 additional licenses because it "appeared I was pirating the software due to the number of activations". Since joining DoCo several years ago, I have developed a new-found fondness for actually compensating software authors. I no longer pirate software. I pay for programs I use past their trial times. That said, I expect software authors to hold up their end of the deal when they sell me a license. No, lifetime upgrades are likely not a sustainable licensing model, but that should be fairly obvious to anyone entering the market. If I were to even consider a lifetime model were I to release a public application, it would be at a higher cost than the standard license to compensate for the added cost of support required later in the product lifecycle.
RF, in my opinion, has done wrong by their long time users and supporters. Putting up a "limited time only" free upgrade for folks who purchased licenses in the last 4 months. Alienating the users who have made them as big as they are today, and doing so with a sense that they have done nothing wrong. I am migrating to lastpass as we speak, and will not look back unless roboform attempts to contact me and right the wrong they have done by the products sold to me.
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I hear ya, Superboyac. I feel much the same way. However, I've installed LastPass, downgraded to Roboform 6 to export my data (and note that I uninstalled Roboform 7 first but Robofrom 6 Pro was automatically activated, which I thought rather nice), and imported my data into LastPass. Looks good so far - haven't found any mistakes. I love Roboform and this breaks my heart a bit, but for now I'm trialing lastPass and will switch completely if there are no problems. As I've alredy noted, I paid for the upgrade to Roboform Everywhere and, courtesy of having bought two additional Roboform 6 Pro licenses in their last Bits du Jour offer (a few weeks before 7 was released), upgraded to Roboform 7 Desktop as well. So, with the apparent exception of RoboformPass2Go, I'm good to go for a year with Roboform. Doesn't alter the fact that I'm not going to condone this kind of treatment. Being able to afford (and appreciate the rationale behind) paid upgrades is one thing, but I still want to be treated with a modicum of respect and I don't feel that this is the case with Siber Systems.
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Sympathize? With Siber Systems? Surely you jest!
I can certainly understand the folly of offering so-called "lifetime" licenses, though if developers see fit to offer them then they damn well better have a good business plan in place that supports them. And if they don’t then they are either very stupid - which I doubt in Siber System's case - or they are just full of crap and know damn well up front that they will renege on the licenses at some point. Now that I believe.
Of course there is one more case to consider: Developers such as Slysoft - who offered lifetime licenses for a long time and have since basically invented just about every advancement in breaking copy protection of CD's, DVD's, and Blue Ray. When it got to the point of them needing to change their license model to survive they kept their promised license model in place for those to whom they sold it and changed the model only for new customers from that point on. And when they got some negative feedback anyway (read: crying and whining from those who had somehow used the software for years without ever purchasing... hmmm), they put it off for a whole year AND offered their lifetime licenses all that year at a discount. Then they changed it. And only for new customers. That's how it should be done.
For other developers who started out offering their product licenses with "free updates" with no limitations stated, they are con artists and for them I have absolutely no sympathy at all. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. May they fail in their endeavors and choke on their own avarice!
Not that I take it personally or anything. :P (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/4Medium/LaughAtYou.gif) (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/5Large/7877.gif)
Thank you.
Jim
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First time "trial" appeared was in changelog for one of the countless betas of version 7. I don't bother looking it up but I think at least 2-3 months before final arrived though still very late in beta cycle. Already then some people complained on their twitter and not much have changed since. Now they say that yes we have made some mistakes regarding communication but have been busy with new website and all. Like they did not realize trial means a whole new situation towards customers and now have to deal with the sad news best way possible. They have never had focus on easing the pain for at least those with 1-2 year old licenses. Instead they go Let us help each other ;) They have planned this since early stages of 7 or you can slap me silly.
Their arguments make sense, much is almost out of their hands but behavior towards customers they control. That is why people are pissed off. Don't feel sorry for them because "lifetime" has same value as "minimum system requirements" for a game or Windows! With a more fair upgrade policy and less marketing nonsense complaints would have been 1/10th of what they are now. Also because 7 is way better than 6 ;)
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I installed KeePass, but I was entirely unable to get any browser integration to work at all.-CWuestefeld
What exactly do you mean by integration with a browser? I can't (quickly, anyway) see anything about that in their Web Help.
It does have the ability to try to fill in a password form by pressing a hotkey. Tools > Options > Advanced tab (right hand end), click the Auto-Type button near the bottom right, and you can set the hotkey to make it pop up? Surely that's not what you meant?
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Snipped most of the content, as Josh pointed out, it was posted earlier, but I wanted to share my disgust on "What if I'm still not satisfied?" part. NOT! :mad:
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Originally Posted by b2carey_siber
(snipped)
What if I'm still not satisfied?
We want to make everyone happy. If you feel we are still not justified in charging for upgrades please contact us at the emails below. Perhaps we can find a way to make you happy and keep you as a customer for life.
Simon Davis - sdavis(at)roboform.com
Bill Carey - b2carey(at)roboform.com
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That was also posted at the betanews link shown earlier in this topic :)
Click "View All Reviews" (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/RoboForm/1014298205/1)
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ah! must have missed it on betanews.. ;D
Pretty much stopped reading anything about Roboform on betanews, even though it is my favorite site to download software from.
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I installed KeePass, but I was entirely unable to get any browser integration to work at all.-CWuestefeld
What exactly do you mean by integration with a browser? I can't (quickly, anyway) see anything about that in their Web Help.
It does have the ability to try to fill in a password form by pressing a hotkey. Tools > Options > Advanced tab (right hand end), click the Auto-Type button near the bottom right, and you can set the hotkey to make it pop up? Surely that's not what you meant?
-rjbull
If you Firefox, KeeFox (http://keepass.info/plugins.html#keefox)
I haven't tried it, though I plan on migrating to Keepass once v6 of Roboform no longer functions with Firefox.
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If you Firefox, KeeFox (http://keepass.info/plugins.html#keefox)
I haven't tried it, though I plan on migrating to Keepass once v6 of Roboform no longer functions with Firefox.-Cloq
I haven't tried it either, but if I hit a problem with RoboForm, I'm planning to take a look at Password Depot (http://www.password-depot.com/) as well.
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I too had been a long-time Roboform user and advocate. I wasn't necessarily so put off about the new licensing, but had discovered LastPass when they bought X-Marks (which I love). Recognizing that it would be a replacement of Roboform, I reluctantly decided to give it a spin, as I like the idea of keeping my bookmarks/favorites sync'd between multiple computers and across each of my browsers (Chrome/Firefox/IE).
I have to say, I was impressed, and became a convert - now I'm sorry I paid for the Roboform upgrade. I'll be migrating to LastPass completely, and eventually dumping RoboForm.
As for the v6 vs v7 - I'm not impressed. As a major rev, I had hoped to see some feature requests included, and more significant benefit. In fact, before discovering LastPass, I had decided to keep all my other Roboform instances to v6 and avoid v7 until some new feature compelled me to make the jump. But of course, now all that is moot.
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v7 also introduces countless bugs which never seem to be fixed.
I can select a login in one tab, and it loads the page and fills it on a completely different tab. This is a bug that has existed since 7.1.3 and has not been relieved with the advent of 7.1.7.
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I don't want to join in the RoboForm bashing. I have upgraded to 7 and haven't regretted it.
I like the annual license model because it allows me to use RoboForm on as many computers and flash drives as I want. I took the leap of faith and use RoboForm Everywhere (formerly RoboForm Online).
They even have a Mac version now & I can use that too without any additional charge. It even works with opera on Windows (of sorts).
The main advantage I see in RoboForm over Lastpass is the possibility to launch login files with other productivity software (like PhraseExpress, MacroExpress or X-keys devices).
Even if there is a recession and lots of people have little money to spend, I think that griping about an annual fee of 20 $ is a bit stingy, at least when you live in country that has a GDP per capita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) of 20000$ and more.
Given the fact that they have always answered my support requests quickly and to the poing, I don't see why paying for their service should be a sin.
I'll be waiting for the firing squad now,
TalksToPCs :rip:
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So you are saying that everyone here who has a problem with losing their previously purchased "free upgrades" licenses are all somehow less entitled than you to express their opinions about it because You have read in Wikipedia that we are ALL wealthy?
I guess that could be considered perfectly reasonable logic... on some planet, somewhere...
Thank you.
Jim
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I have upgraded to 7 and haven't regretted it.
I like the annual license model because it allows me to use RoboForm on as many computers and flash drives as I want. I took the leap of faith and use RoboForm Everywhere (formerly RoboForm Online).
They even have a Mac version now & I can use that too without any additional charge. It even works with opera on Windows (of sorts).
-TalksToPCs
that sounds fair enough, if you're in that situation (want/need to use on multiple computers and flash drives. Me: I only use on one, so I wont be upgrading)
But I believe (without having read every post here) that the problem is the way they handled it - and the way they dealt with the "free upgrades" license and owners of same.
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So you are saying that everyone here who has a problem with losing their previously purchased "free upgrades" licenses are all somehow less entitled than you to express their opinions about it because You have read in Wikipedia that we are ALL wealthy?
I guess that could be considered perfectly reasonable logic... on some planet, somewhere...
-J-Mac
Companies change prices and policies all the time. I don't see why this should not apply to the software business. Some people have lost out (as some on this forum). Others have won (well, I certainly have).
One does not have to be an alien to look at something from different perspectives.
I'm all for free speech.
I merely wanted to introduce the other forum members to a different point of view. My wording could have been nicer.
But I believe (without having read every post here) that the problem is the way they handled it - and the way they dealt with the "free upgrades" license and owners of same.
-tomos
Okay, I can accept that some people feel annoyed. They were made worse off. And promises were broken.
:-\
I'm actually glad that some people have enough idealism left in them to raise a fuss about things like this policy change.
I guess I've become too callous and accepted the fact that companies will f**k you over from time to time.
I'm just not critical at all because I have profited from the change.
That will be all.
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If you sell people a "lifetime" license, it's understood that they should be receiving all future version of the product at no additional charge beyond what was paid for the lifetime license.
And please let's drop the word "free" from this discussion. These lifetime licenses were never free. They were all paid for; and were purchased with the understanding and expectation it would be the only fee that would ever need to be paid for a non-expiring license to use all future releases of this software.
All the equivocation, semantic tap dancing, and hair-splitting over exactly what "lifetime" means will not change the fact that this company is obviously trying to rationalize its way out of the promises it made.
So what this all comes down to is whether or not a person or business keeps its word.
There are at least a thousand reasons why someone may decide to go back on their word. And probably something like half of those reasons are very good ones. But it still doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, a promise was broken. And in the end, that's the only thing that matters to those who are affected by it.
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If you sell people a "lifetime" license, it's understood that they should be receiving all future version of the product at no additional charge beyond what was paid for the lifetime license.
And please let's drop the word "free" from this discussion. These lifetime licenses were never free. They were all paid for; and were purchased with the understanding and expectation it would be the only fee that would ever need to be paid for a non-expiring license to use all future releases of this software.
All the equivocation, semantic tap dancing, and hair-splitting over exactly what "lifetime" means will not change the fact that this company is obviously trying to rationalize its way out of the promises it made.
So what this all comes down to is whether or not a person or business keeps its word.
There are at least a thousand reasons why someone may decide to go back on their word. And probably something like half of those reasons are very good ones. But it still doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, a promise was broken. And in the end, that's the only thing that matters to those who are affected by it.
-40hz
Yeah, you're right I suppose. I guess that is the real point of all of this.
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Just saw this as a Bits du Jour Suggestion (http://www.bitsdujour.com/suggest/suggest=906/): anyone know anything about it?
Sticky Password (http://www.stickypassword.com/en/)
€23.95 includes portable version
Quoting their Web site (my emphasis):
* login automatically to your favorite websites
* fill-in online forms with one click
* instant access to your passwords and personal data
* generate and store strong passwords
* protection against identity theft, phishing and keyloggers
* your data protected by the strongest encryption algorithms
* easily manage all your website accounts and passwords
* portable version included: take all your passwords with you
* automatic password backup
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I recently attempted to swap to lastpass from Roboform after the latest incident. While LastPass has some potential, I do not feel it is near ready for a full swap. The product works on some pages. There are various pages with LastPass that will fill but not submit. Others will fill and the screen will grey out with LP's "Submitting form" screen but not do anything. I've reported numerous to LP but apparently, unless you are a premium member, you do not get any sort of decent response from the support team. That said, I have decided to dump it. I do not feel like giving them free testing and reports just to be ignored via support. My last reply was over a week ago, to which I promptly responded, and I have not heard back since.
LP feels incomplete. The GUI leaves a lot to be desired. The menus are ungodly long. The options are split between the preferences dialog and the website account settings dialogs. This should be in ONE PLACE. The controls are not very intuitive, not following standard GUI conventions, and leave a lot to be desired.
That said, I have contacted Mr. Carey at Siber Systems, per his request in various messages around the web. After several emails back and forth, I have reached a resolution which I feel to be acceptable. The company was very willing to work with me.
I even took time to explain to them how I was treated like a pirate, even accused of such by the support staff. Upon mentioning this, he said I showed 42 activations on my account for 5 licenses. I advised him that I reinstall windows on various machines quite frequently. Since there is no De-Activation system, I could not deactivate my license before-hand. As such, this resulted in a plethora of activations. Only one time did I ever exceed the number of systems to licenses restriction and I immediately purchased another.
After speaking with him, I feel content in moving back to roboform. The product, after all, cannot be beat in the arena. LastPass just left a lot to be desired when compared to RF's polish. I am still upset with the disregard to the license I purchased, but the resolution we reached is acceptable. I am back and pleased to be using RF once again.
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Not had that problem with LastPass except for a couple of Roboform imports that had to be hand edited. Other than that I have found it works as well as RoboForm and is truly cross browser.
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It happens all of the time for me. It cannot fill flash based pages, it fails on my bank. The auto-login feature works very sporadically. Sometimes it will login, other times not. Sometimes it will fill a form, sometimes not. It is very unreliable, in my experiences.
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I could never get Roboform to fill in flash based websites ???
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Scratch that, just double checked. I thought a site I used was flash-based. It just LOOKS flash based ;-)
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@Josh - out of curiosity, exactly what was the resolution you reached with the makers of RoboForm that you are now so happy with them?
:)
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I'm with Josh as far as my attitude. Yes, I hate this upgrade policy, but I just don't see any program out there that is better than roboform. What makes it worse is that Roboform is one of the very few programs in this world that I have almost zero complaints with. It really is amazing. I can usually find something to complain about, but not with Roboform. it's hard for me to go to second best, when I've tasted the best.
But yes, they shouldn't have changed their policy the way they did. that was wrong. I just upgraded, by the way...I had to...
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I am entirely happy with Lastpass after switching from Roboform a few weeks ago. It does everything I want and I actually prefer it to Roboform.
When I initially imported my Roboform data I had very long menus of sites and secure notes but since categorising them into groups I find the menus quick and easy to use.
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It has to be re-stated: my position is that Siber Systems are entirely within their rights to change their licensing policy. That said, the way in which they went about it has left a bad taste in my mouth.
FWIW, I wrote a detailed note about why I was dropping Roboform when I uninstalled it (the uninstaller takes you to a webpage and your are prompted to fill out a survey). I left my name and e-mail and have never heard a word from them. Perhaps I should write to them directly, as Josh did...
LastPass works fine for me, but I do find that I miss Roboform occasionally. Mostly this comes down to the GUI - I'm "relearning" the ropes. I've yet to find a site that it won't work with, though.
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Mentioned by Keith Russell in the Yahoo! Group PowerToolsSoftware: PC Magazine review of LastPass 1.72 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379288,00.asp).
Brief mentions of RoboForm Pro 6.9, Kaspersky Password Manager 4, Identity Safe (a feature of Norton Internet Security 2011), Norton 360 Version 4.0, Steganos Privacy Suite 12, Encrypt Stick 5.0, SplashID Key Safe
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I've yet to find a site that it won't work with, though.
-Darwin
I found a few so far - but mostly they are to do with imports from RoboForm. LastPass seems to be a bit more specific on URL than RoboForm so that just having the root page of a website stored isn't sufficient to fill in a deeper login page - you need the actual page.
Actually one of the things I am finding hugely good in LastPass - and means I won't be going back to RoboForm - is the "My LastPass Vault" button (I use the toolbar version in Firefox).
Clicking opens up all of your login cards but all the common ones are listed under Recent at the top - just clicking on the link takes you to the webpage and logs in automatically. If you are looking for a specific non-recent login just type a couple of letters from the site name and up pop any cards associated with the site.
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I, too, have found a few sites that haven't migrated 100% from Roboform into LastPass. Overall, though, I'm hugely impressed with LastPass. I keep downloading the installers for the updates to Roboform, but have yet to install them. The temptation is dimishing quickly, as well.
EDIT: typo
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I was fed up with robos licensing and moved to lastpass/xmarks (at least for a year).
lastpass has been okay, though I have the same problems with flash based logins.
but at least I can install it on my pcs... at work, and on my android tablet