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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: TPReal on September 03, 2007, 09:51 AM

Title: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 03, 2007, 09:51 AM

If you like logic, mathematic and programming problems and riddles, have a look at this page: http://etonne.110mb.com/. Needs some "out of the box" thinking.

You solve the riddles consecutively: you have to give the correct answer to a riddle to get to the next one. Once every few riddles you are given two or three interesting links (one of the links leads to donationcoder :)). Some of the questions are rather easy, but some of them really need some knowledge or work.

TPReal.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: f0dder on September 03, 2007, 09:58 AM

Oooh, which link to donationcoder? :)

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 03, 2007, 12:49 PM

After solving about 7 riddles you get to it... try yourself :)

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 11, 2007, 12:40 PM

Can somebody help me with the Hanoi puzzle?

I already know the moves and the amount of seconds, but in one part the puzzle asks for the age of the universe, then it asks for the age of the world, and it asks that in years, but the age of the universe has an uncertainty of about +/-200 million years... I've tried several answers, but none works...

Any pointers?

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 11, 2007, 12:58 PM

Basically, don't look for a trick in this question. This is a strictly mathematical question. Just divide the amount of seconds to move the whole tower by the average amount of seconds in a year (be sure not to use a calculator which loses precision).
If you type help as the answer, you will see a help about the average number of seconds in a year (average, because some years are leap years and some are not, so not all years have the same number of seconds), so just divide the two numbers and round mathematically to the nearest integer. That's it.

And you're right, the legend is for sure untrue, because it assumes that at the very beginning at the world they already had the tower on the first needle, while we know that at that time there was no gold, no diamonds, no priests, no temples and no Earth :) but it's simply unimportant here.

TPReal

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 11, 2007, 03:38 PM

So it seems I don't know what to make of this:

Spoiler

(2 ^ 64) - 1) / 365.2425

I've tried the result of the above operation, I also tried different variations, like adding the word "billion" or "million" (and removing the related digits).

Do I deserve another hint?

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 11, 2007, 04:13 PM

There's a little problem with your formula. You divide the number of moves, and thus seconds, by the number of days in a year. You have to divide by the number of seconds in a year instead, so you're almost there.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 11, 2007, 04:20 PM

Oh right... That's what I was doing on my initial attempts, but somehow it didn't work... now it does, thanks!

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 11, 2007, 05:19 PM

Stuck again... What's the name of the brightest star? I've tried variations in latin, greek, english, and french of the two most brightest stars... What gives?

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 12, 2007, 03:53 AM

One of the stars you see on the sky is definitely the brightest. And the question is in French. And remember it's a name of the star. And remember about this tiny thing at the beginning of your answer.

By the way, does anyone else play this? Ivan, if you know anyone who could like Étonné, please tell them!

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: iphigenie on September 12, 2007, 04:23 AM

you probably have to think closer to home

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 12, 2007, 12:21 PM

Thanks for the tips. As you point out, I already think I know the answer,

Spoiler

as in Cirque Du ... right? I also tried Sirius, which would be the second brightest star.

Somehow it isn't working :(

I know several people who would love to play something like this, unfortunately, none of them speak english :(

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 12, 2007, 12:55 PM

Yes, as in ... :) I think I know why you don't succeed:

Spoiler

Not horse, but a horse. Not Soleil but ... If you don't know French, look over the internet for it.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 13, 2007, 02:49 PM

Heh, thanks.

I'm now at the geometry equation... Never seen anything like that, but I'll try.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 13, 2007, 03:32 PM

Could the answer be like a fractal, or something simpler? I'm really rusty at set theory already, and there are some symbols I don't fully understand :(

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 14, 2007, 08:01 AM

Ok, I'll help you with the symbols, but still some math (and geometry, as in title) is needed to solve it.
The whole thing looks like: {(x;y): <condition> } and it means: a set of such pairs (x;y) that the <condition> is met. Now the condition: thing a bit like x E <-4;4> means that -4<=x<=4. The next sign (like v upside down) is AND operator, while v (not upside down) is OR operator. And the last part: a thing like a E {b;c} is equivalent to a=b v a=c. And what you have to do is to draw the set in cartesian coordinates, and look at the result.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 14, 2007, 11:12 AM

So the last part would be something like this:

Spoiler

x^2+y^2=0.25;x^2+y^2=4 V 25-x^2=(y-3)^2;25-x^2=(y+3)^2

And so if I solve those equations and do a "union" of the pairs I get, I graph those?

I'm just trying to see if I'm following the right path, as I still don't really know what I'm doing :)

Maybe this is as far as I'll get.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 14, 2007, 11:22 AM

Almost right... but look: x E {a;b} is equivalent to x=a v x=b. So the equations you gave are correct, but you should find a union of the results of all four equations! Change both ';' to 'v' in your formula.
In other words - solve each of the four equations you gave separately, and draw all four solutions one on another, thus creating the union of all four of them.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 14, 2007, 12:39 PM

I suck at this... I attached my graph, and it doesn't look like anything...

And here are the equations:

Spoiler

y = 0.5 * sqrt(1 - 4x^2)
y = -0.5 * sqrt(1 - 4x^2)
y = sqrt(4 - x^2)
y = -sqrt(4 - x^2)
y = 3 + sqrt(25 - x^2)
y = 3 - sqrt(25 - x^2)
y = -3 + sqrt(25 - x^2)
y = -3 - sqrt(25 - x^2)

Am I way off or on to something?

Thanks for such an addicting puzzle!

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 14, 2007, 12:47 PM

You attached the image in the wrong way, now everyone can see it :) maybe edit it or attach it in some other way or something. But the image is good (apart from the fact that I can't see there the y = -sqrt(4 - x^2) curve). Now look at the first part of the formula which says that -4<=x<=4 and -2<=y<=2, so take only this rectangular part of the image you have created, and I'm sure you will see clearly what it is!

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 14, 2007, 01:00 PM

Yay! I didn't think it would be this easy!

Thanks!

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 14, 2007, 03:15 PM

So, any hints as to what language is the picture for transcription? I've looked at several asian, european, and from the middle-east, but none looks like the one in the picture...

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 14, 2007, 04:39 PM

I cannot give away too much! Ask some friends about this image (you can give them the link to the image, you don't have to be logged in to see it), I'm pretty sure someone will know what it is.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 16, 2007, 01:58 PM

Have you given up? Oh come on!

Spoiler

It's not a "real" language, it's from a well known book that has been also made into a movie.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 16, 2007, 02:34 PM

Oh no, I haven't given up yet, it's just that I have yet to find someone who recognizes the letters.

But I think I might know what "language" it is :) I'll try tomorrow.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 18, 2007, 09:23 AM

Nice. Now I'll have to think a while about the f(x) question. Just a small pointer maybe?

Spoiler

f(x) = ceiling
f(x) = palindrome
f(x) = ? (I don't know yet)
f(x) = breast
f(dessert) = distress

Am I going in the right direction?

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 18, 2007, 09:36 AM

First of all, read the question once again, very carefully, look especially on the f(x) = x part, because I think you misunderstood something a bit. But I also see you sort of found the clue. Think about synonyms to the words you gave.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: ivanv on September 18, 2007, 10:12 AM

I think I've found the third answer.

And you mean:

Spoiler

f(height above ground) = top

?

I'll need to sleep on this one :wallbash:

;D

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: TPReal on September 18, 2007, 10:22 AM

Still not exactly. It is said that for the four given values of x, it is true that f(x) = x. In other words

Spoiler

f(height above ground) = height above ground

and so on. And think about some synonyms in the fifth equation.

Title: Re: Étonné - logic, math, crypto and programming problems
Post by: gsades on June 06, 2008, 01:48 PM

I think I got the idea. This is my very first post here and I don't know how to hide text yet, so I won't be too specific. I understand that the first step is to find a synonym of "you", is it right? (hope it is!)
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