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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: MilesOhToole on March 25, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Hey everyone! It's been a while since my last post but I've occasionally lurked around. Matter of fact, last time I posted, you guys helped me buy my dream PC. Here's (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=5514.0) that thread.
I had that PC built for me but I've learned quite a bit since then and want to build my own this time.
As last time, I'm going to be buying (nearly) all my parts from Global Computer (http://www.globalcomputer.com/), since I'll get a discount from ordering through my employer.
First thoughts and opinions/suggestions are quite welcome:
*I think I'm going to go with a quad core processor, thinking dual-core will soon be as obsolete as single-core.
*I have a crashed 500 GB Seagate HDD that I will send back for a replacement, under warranty, saving money. I laugh at the HDD shortage of 2012!
*My wife is in college and I'm going to try to buy a student discounted version of Windows 7 Professional 64bit. I don't know how that works, as of yet.
*I want a fairly competent gaming PC. If my PC can run games reasonably well, I figure it can do darn near anything else with ease. Plus, I like games!
*I have an approximate budget of $1000.00.
I know all that is still pretty vague. Basically, I'm wanting a gaming PC for $1000 and I want to build it, not only to save money but for the learning experience.
One other thing I learned from my subscription to MaximumPC is that the AMD GPU's doesn't support PhysX that's included in cool games like Batman: Arkham City. So, I guess I'll go with nVidia.
Any preliminary suggestions?
Thanks to the wonderful folks who helped me buy my current PC. I can't believe it's been six whole years ago! Other than a few HDD failures (and a replaced PSU, which I suspected as the culprit) it continues to be a wonderful machine.
Thanks to Mouser for a wonderful site. By the way, I still have that PM you sent me to donate to your site. I apologize for never getting around to it. It will be done shortly, I promise.
Thanks, everyone.
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Horses for courses with graphics cards.
AMD cards support more than two screens and some games are written specifically for AMD.
For what its worth I have an AMD card and Arkham City is just fine.
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One thing: If possible, try to go with passive cooling on your graphics adapters. That may not be possible since you want a gaming system. In my case, not needing heavy duty GPU stuff, passive cooling was an option. The GPU fan always seems to be the first to go out on me, and often the loudest, but maybe it's just my dirty air ;p. So, I have been very pleased with passively cooled graphics adapters.
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Buy a Systembuilder Windows license, together/bundled with a mainboard, it'll save you around $75 to $90 from a full retail license.
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One other thing I learned from my subscription to MaximumPC is that the AMD GPU's doesn't support PhysX that's included in cool games like Batman: Arkham City. So, I guess I'll go with nVidia.-Carol Haynes
An nVidia GPU isn't required for PhysX - it's only required if you want to offload some of work to the GPU rather than have the CPU do it.
With current model GPUs and CPUs I doubt whether you'd notice any appreciable difference.
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One other thing I learned from my subscription to MaximumPC is that the AMD GPU's doesn't support PhysX that's included in cool games like Batman: Arkham City. So, I guess I'll go with nVidia.-Carol Haynes
An nVidia GPU isn't required for PhysX - it's only required if you want to offload some of work to the GPU rather than have the CPU do it.
With current model GPUs and CPUs I doubt whether you'd notice any appreciable difference.
-4wd
There are a few games around that seem to work better with nVidia or with Physx turned off (Mirror's Edge springs to ming) but generally I see Physx running fine with AMD cards (I am using a Sapphire Radeon HD6890 with 1Gb DDR5 Ram and three 24" HD monitors in EyeInfinity mode for gaming and don't have many issues - non that haven't been fixable - with modern games).
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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-gaming-pc-overclock,3159.html#xtor=RSS-182 ... here, just popped up NOW, so should be current.
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^ Good catch.
Swap the CPU for a i5-2500K, double the RAM (2x4GB), and use two HDDs and it should still be under $1000 and have a lot more grunt for pretty much anything.
You could probably squeeze a new Intel Z68 board in there also.
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Looks like a good spec - but I would go for a Core i7 CPU/motherboard if you can squeeze that into the cost.
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I had a buddy build me my custom project machine, so here are some thoughts.
1. Consider skipping 3 meals a week/haircuts/etc to boost your budget to about $1500. There's a bit of a "quality slider" effect where useful upgrades across the board are always $67 away.
Supposing you "copied" my setup from my project machine, with the passage of time my $1800 price at the time might be down a bit/ a lot.
1. I thought ahead and got the first generation Quad Core all the way back in 2006. You're right, Dual is for Dogs now. (Though not all programs can find the spare resources properly.)
2. Check with your buddies/the net about the types of little components that tend to fail when Dell / etc skimps on quality. My message is all about the $67 upgrade effect to get more/better years out of the comp beast. (You said you wanted to game, right? That says you'll be pushing the limits for hours, so you don't want an "office-spec'ed" comp where the maker cheats and banks on worker bees only typing text all day long. Get a better fan, better internals, etc.)
3. It's the Media Age, and Media is Big. I got 1.75 Terabytes of storage. It works pretty well for me to put all the apps on C: and use the spare drive for media sorting.
4. Misc upgrades. For your gaming, does it make sense to get a Graphics booster of some kind? As an example, I realized I like to do a lot of sound file encoding, so I had a special extra data encoding mini-chip added to my setup that almost doubles stock encoding speeds.
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You might find this thread helpful:
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=16186.0
The people here helped me build that PC. I'm using it to this day, and it's great. Very helpful crowd here.
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Horses for courses with graphics cards.
AMD cards support more than two screens and some games are written specifically for AMD.
For what its worth I have an AMD card and Arkham City is just fine.
-Carol Haynes
Well, good. I like AMD cards better, anyway.
http://www.tomshardware.c...ck,3159.html#xtor=RSS-182 ... here, just popped up NOW, so should be current.-db90h
Thanks for the link. I'm working on something based on that, with some changes that 4wd and Carol posted.
I had a buddy build me my custom project machine, so here are some thoughts.
1. Consider skipping 3 meals a week/haircuts/etc to boost your budget to about $1500. There's a bit of a "quality slider" effect where useful upgrades across the board are always $67 away.
Supposing you "copied" my setup from my project machine, with the passage of time my $1800 price at the time might be down a bit/ a lot.
1. I thought ahead and got the first generation Quad Core all the way back in 2006. You're right, Dual is for Dogs now. (Though not all programs can find the spare resources properly.)
2. Check with your buddies/the net about the types of little components that tend to fail when Dell / etc skimps on quality. My message is all about the $67 upgrade effect to get more/better years out of the comp beast. (You said you wanted to game, right? That says you'll be pushing the limits for hours, so you don't want an "office-spec'ed" comp where the maker cheats and banks on worker bees only typing text all day long. Get a better fan, better internals, etc.)
3. It's the Media Age, and Media is Big. I got 1.75 Terabytes of storage. It works pretty well for me to put all the apps on C: and use the spare drive for media sorting.
4. Misc upgrades. For your gaming, does it make sense to get a Graphics booster of some kind? As an example, I realized I like to do a lot of sound file encoding, so I had a special extra data encoding mini-chip added to my setup that almost doubles stock encoding speeds. -TaoPhoenix
Good advice! Thanks.
OK, here's basically what I have, so far. Critique away and any comments are very welcome.
Click Here (http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u254/milesohtoole/?action=view¤t=PCbuild.jpg)
I couldn't find anything in the barebones section that matched what I wanted, so I started from scratch.
And, am I correct in thinking that I'll need USB with that case? I assume a case comes with nothing other than fans. I also have a feeling someone is going to tell me I'm doing this all wrong... :D
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You don't really need the USB card - there will be quite a few USB sockets on the motherboard.
I haven't looked at the case you suggested but I would guess that will have front panel audio and USB connectors (they have cables with header to plug direct to the motherboard)
If you want an alternative case this one is truly excellent:
http://store.antec.com/Product/benclosure/three-hundred/0-761345-45003-4.aspx
My preference for a PSU would be Corsair - I have built a few systems using their PSUs now and they are beautifully built and come with a 3 year warranty. Here is one around the same price mark but 600W:
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Certified-Compatible-Platforms-CMPSU-600CXV2/dp/B004W2T2UQ
Personally if I was building a system now I would go for Core i7 if you can squeeze it into the budget.
Have a look at some of these motherboards:
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=0&p=2&v=28
(I really like Gigabyte boards - well made and they use ultra durable capacitors - I have been burned on other boards before!)
How about :
http://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-GA-X79-UD5-Intel-E-ATX-Motherboard/dp/B0064Z6Y9G
(full details here: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4049#ov)
and
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80623I72600K-Core-i7-2600K-Processor/dp/B004EBUXSA
I know they are a bit more expensive. (You may find them cheaper elsewhere)
What do other people think?
You may also want to think of a non-stock CPU cooler. The Antec case I mentioned above is big enough to take one of these beasts:
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D14-SE2011-Heatpipes-Bearing/dp/B00631QFG8
(be warned they are shockingly large and you need to check it will fit on your motherboard - note this particular one is for Core i7 processors only)
They are a brilliant cooling solution and very quiet.
You didn't have a graphics card listed on you shopping list. How about:
http://www.amazon.com/SAPPHIRE-Radeon-6870-GDDR5-Graphics/dp/B005C8RTTU
This is the one I bought recently and I have found it to be brilliant - plus if you fancy expanding later it supports up to 3 displays (either as standard extended displays or one humongous EyeInfintiy display - great for gaming!!)
(I only used Amazon as a quick catalogue - you can probably find things cheaper on other sites. Not being in the US I don't know the best places to look. Having said that you can't knock Amazon's support and returns policy and their prices are usually pretty competitive.)
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I'd spring the extra $35 and get the i5-2500K (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1203205&CatId=22) - these things are probably the best 'bang for buck' CPU around, you can go up to 4.3GHz by just changing the multiplier, all on the stock HSF.
You won't need the extra PCI USB card, that motherboard already has 10 x USB2, (4 on the back, 6 on headers), ports and 4 x USB3, (2 on the back, 2 on headers), ports - so all you need is the backplane brackets if you require the extra ports.
Here's a USB2 one:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Regarding the case, (Ugh! - sorry :) I prefer understated ones these days), since it's for a gaming rig - will you be carrying it around to friends and LAN nights?
If you are, then I'd recommend the Cooler Master Storm Scout (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4543058&CatId=1509) - a lot of space inside for your build, good cable management and carry handles.
If this is a stationary object that wont be going anywhere, then whatever floats your boat - although one that has front USB3 ports to take advantage of the headers on the motherboard would be good.
These days, I would not think of buying a case with less than either 3 USB ports, (2x USB2 + 1x USB3), or 4 USB2 ports available on the front. As an example, the Fractal Design Arc Midi (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352007) which also comes with fan controller.
EDIT: Carol snuck in ahead: +1 for Gigabyte, +1 for Noctua but if you can't afford the Noctua coolers, (in case you want something a bit better than stock), then the Cooler Master Hyper series are good, (eg. Hyper 212+).
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And I have added a few edits above ...
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Thanks to both of you. OK, check out the attachment.
Of course, I don't have a case in my shopping cart because Global doesn't have Antec cases, so I'll buy the one Carol provided the link for. Thank you!
A few questions, though. I want 8GB RAM. I picked the bundled PSU with the Corsair 4GB RAM--this RAM (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1126328&sku=C11-1083). Then, I have Corsair 4GB RAM--this one (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4837614&sku=C13-8220). So, I'll have 3 sticks of RAM, one 4GB and 2 2GB. I can't find the exact RAM that comes bundled with the PSU, to buy separately at the site. I might be completely wrong, but isn't it better to have RAM that matches exactly? Seems like I read somewhere that I should have 2 sticks of 4GB RAM, but I might be mistaken. Maybe it's all in looking forward, to upgrading to 16GB and beyond and the available slots or something or maybe it's consistency and the PC's efficiency to manage the memory. I honestly don't remember now.
Another thing to talk about is a sound card. I had Global build a PC for my brother a couple of years ago, like mine, and the IT guy at work told me he didn't think sound cards were as crucial as they were a few years ago. Keep in mind, though, that he's not a gamer. So, I ordered my brother's computer without a sound card. Sure enough, his computer is able to run some pretty new games. He's not that big of a gamer either but he has Flight Sim X and Silent Hunter IV and some other fairly dated games and they run with no problem. Is that the case, now? Do I need to bother with a sound card or is integrated sound good enough now?
(Also, as a side-note, the price is not calculating correctly. The PSU/RAM bundle is actually $54.99, if you look at the link, which is why I chose it (yeah, with a rebate). If push comes to shove, I'll just order the PSU and 2 4GB sticks all separately at whatever website will give me the best price.)
Or basically whatever you guys tell me to do because I'm willing to practically give you my bank account information and let you paint the town red unless a previously unknown uncle from some obscure village in Africa dies and leaves me his diamond mine in his will or something.
Too, I'm going to need a big fat monitor and an OS and keyboard and mouse and probably a card reader and some other minor stuff, so the price will go up an estimated $250-300. Of course, that's all not calculating the discount I'll get at Global, which won't be known until I place the order. I think I saved about an additional $116 or so on the PC I have now.
And, remember, I don't have a HDD listed because I'll RMA my failed 500GB Seagate back for a replacement to use on this new one, plus I have a 1TB and 2TB external drive and an additional 500GB drive in the PC I'm still using, so I have plenty of storage space.
Wow. Thanks again. You people have made me ponder and compare/contrast and brought my IQ up more than any college education can buy. On that thought, you should all be eligible for federal funding, IMHO. :D
If anyone might be interested, I'll leave you with the excitement my brother and I experienced, in the pristine forest of West Virginia, making fire by rubbing two sticks together (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0Cdstwth34). That's the only worthy contribution I can think of. There's no better feeling than being able to make fire like our ancestors did (though I cheated a little, it really makes you appreciate the hardship that civilization had to endure).
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You could save some money by not investing in the Hyper 212+ from the start, as I said above, the stock Intel HSF is more than adequate for that CPU up to around 4.3GHz. If further down the track you want to push the CPU a little more or just want something quieter, (you'll probably find that the GPU HSF will make more noise than the CPU HSF), then you could invest in the Noctua/CM/etc.
Unless you're a real audiophile, the onboard sound will be more than adequate.
Also, I don't think you can plug that CPU into that motherboard - the CPU is a LGA1155 and the motherboard is for LGA2011 i7, (just looked and you can't).
For the i5-2500K you need something like: GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD5-B3 (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2055964&CatId=6975) - $224.96
So dropping the HSF and changing the motherboard will save you ~$100
If you then use:
Corsair 600W Builder Series™ CX600 (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=600w+builder&image1.x=0&image1.y=0) - $49.99
and
2 x Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 Vengeance 8GB (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7025810&CatId=3473) - $99.98
You end up with 16GB of faster RAM, (PSU bundle only came with DDR3-1333), and you save $5.00 :)
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Why go for 4gB + 2x2Gb ?? Just go for a matched pair of 4Gb sticks from Crucial - any DDR3 RAM will do so go for the fastest you can find.
Alternative Crucial Vengeance is very good and comes with heat sinks (and when I looks wasn't appreciably different in price to Crucial).
If you go for 2 x 4Gb it is easy to add another matched pair later if you need to. I can't really see any rational for 4+2+2 other than it won't use the memory to its full potential as you won't have dual channel (except perhaps on the 2Gb sticks depending on how you arrange the memory).
Edit- see below: Personally I think the PSU/RAM bundle you mentioned is too cheap - you need a good quality PSU (poor/cheap PSU's are a major cause of intermittent headaches) and the best RAM you can find. Never had any problems with Corsair or Crucial memory.
Re. sound card: Most motherboards come with reasonably decent sound built in (usually 5.1 or 7.1 surround if you want that). With a system with bit of power it should be more than adequate for most purposes. It is easy to add a sound card at a later date if you feel you need to but I would certainly see what the onboard sound is like first.
If you do what a sound card I have found the Creative XFi range to be pretty decent for the price. The only issue is that they drivers can be annoying to install (once installed they have been fine but it took me a while to figure out why they weren't installing correctly - but then Windows was new then and I suspect the software will be more stable now).
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Personally I think the PSU/RAM bundle you mentioned is too cheap - you need a good quality PSU (poor/cheap PSU's are a major cause of intermittent headaches) and the best RAM you can find. Never had any problems with Corsair or Crucial memory.-Carol Haynes
Um, the PSU/RAM bundle he mentioned is Corsair. It's the kind of deal you'd go for if you were building your generic business desktop.
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[Edit from above...] I was just about to edit my post when the annoying backup kicked in!
Sorry I didn't look at the attachment.
I'm still not sure I would go for 4+2+2 though. Buy the package and then flog the memory on eBay or Amazon and go for 4+4 Vengeance paired memory.
If you must go for that package you would be better with 2+2+2+2 or 4+4+2+2 - with two matched pairs appropriately installed.
When I built my system I went for 4+4+4+4 and really haven't regretted it.
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OK, thanks to the both of you.
One thing I went differently with was to stick to 8GB RAM. I figure I can always add RAM later and 8GB should be plenty, into the near future.
I'll have to wait until Monday to place my order through my employer. Any other suggestions, until then?
I'm also thinking about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6798095&CatId=2775) monitor, mainly due to it's 2ms response, size, price and the reviews are pretty good. Thoughts?
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I'm also thinking about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6798095&CatId=2775) monitor, mainly due to it's 2ms response, size, price and the reviews are pretty good. Thoughts?
-MilesOhToole
Some of my browsers (FF, Chrome, Opera) think that link is a loop, so they won't open it (too_many_redirects), got another link?
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You're not far from what I built last autumn - and I am still very pleased with it :)
Didnt see if you needed a case or not. I can hugely recommend the Antec SOLO case as having most of the nice thermal and silence bits of the high end Antec cases at a much lower price, and it looks clean and simple. Have 3 of them for many years now (2007), still superb.
Can recommend the Scythe Shuriken as a cooler - not as huge as many and nicely quiet.
Here's my spec:
I went for the asrock Z68 as value for money, but the GA is extremely nice.
Didnt pay much attention to the memory. Reasonable brand 2x4gb. Never noticed all that much effect between different RAM chips and configurations, but then I tend not to overclock as I like to keep my temp low and my computer quiet (I might underclock). I mean, you notice different numbers on benchmarks, but I don't notice much difference in real playing, so I don't bother.
I did shell out on a small Intel SSD for the core OS - installing most of the games and data on a normal drive on the side. It does make a huge difference and I wish I could do this everywhere.
Very happy with the HIS IceQ cards. Used to get Asus and Sapphire when they made fanless cards, but they aren't doing much of that anymore (I think powercolor still are, but cant find them in the UK). The IceQ is less noisy than most. I have the AGP HD 4670 IceQ in another computer, so I stuck to them (got to thank a company for still making stuff for an old AGP machine, eh?)
Antec Solo Case
Asrock Z68 Pro3 http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z68%20Pro3&cat=Specifications
Intel Core i5 2500k
8GB Ram (Corsair I think)
Intel 320 80GB ssd drive SATA II
WD Caviar Black 2Tb SATA III
scythe shuriken low profile
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 (old one I had around)
HIS HD 6870 IceQ X Turbo
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I'm also thinking about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6798095&CatId=2775) monitor, mainly due to it's 2ms response, size, price and the reviews are pretty good. Thoughts?
-MilesOhToole
Some of my browsers (FF, Chrome, Opera) think that link is a loop, so they won't open it (too_many_redirects), got another link?
-Ath
my opera had no problem
maybe the print link will work better? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/searchtools/item-details-print.asp?EdpNo=6798095&Sku=A466-2214
I have an old high end Asus which still holds its own, but have seen very mixed reviews of the more budget ones. Of course with reviews its hard to know what is worth hearing or not, especially on monitors. So much depends on what one is used to. For example a screen that looks duller next to another monitor might still be wonderful when it is the main monitor, as having perhaps better color or because you play at night :)
We since went with a bargain Philips monitor which so far has been a beauty, although color rendition took some tweaking. I might look at this one at the same price http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2239228&CatId=2775
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my opera had no problem
maybe the print link will work better? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/searchtools/item-details-print.asp?EdpNo=6798095&Sku=A466-2214
-iphigenie
Still not working (ends in some 404 page (http://www.globalcomputer.com/errors/default404gc.htm?ev=2010430868059380112&se=0), according to the name in the final link), maybe because I'm not in the US of A?
edit: Even when opening www.globalcomputer.com I get that page...
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my opera had no problem
maybe the print link will work better? http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/searchtools/item-details-print.asp?EdpNo=6798095&Sku=A466-2214
-iphigenie
Still not working (ends in some 404 page (http://www.globalcomputer.com/errors/default404gc.htm?ev=2010430868059380112&se=0), according to the name in the final link), maybe because I'm not in the US of A?
edit: Even when opening www.globalcomputer.com I get that page...
-Ath
very weird, works here from the UK. maybe something is happening at your ISP :(
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Works in Chrome here.
Personally I would find 21.1" a bit small these days (no 'double entendre' intended)
How about this one: http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1990492&CatId=4420 (24")
or a few dollars cheaper here: http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VS247H-P-23-6-Inch-Full-Monitor/dp/B005BZNDS0 (lots of good reviews too)
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considering they all end up having the same resolution, i tend to find 24" less "crisp" than smaller screens
never quite understood how they managed to make everyone focus on screen size rather than resolution, but here's t hoping that the ipad3 reverse that trend.
You could find 15" and 17" screens that did 1920x1600 10 years ago, you cant find a 21" near that resolution nowadays (even adjusted for 16:9/16:10)... let alone the equivalent in detail per inch...
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Given that 1920x1080 is the standard resolution for HD and screens of 60" show BluRay in all of its 'glory' I doubt there is much difference in crispness between a 21.5" and a 24" screen.
Or maybe it is just my eyesight!
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Looks like I'm late to this party and I just skimmed the thread, but I'll try to interject some points that I don't think anyone else covered.
Re: graphics cards...this is tricky. There's nothing preventing you from running PhysX on an AMD card. However, PhysX is owned by Nvidia and they put little checks in their PhysX drivers that only allow GPU-acceleration on Nvidia GPUs. This yields better performance & in a lot of cases enhanced PhysX effects in your games. Another consideration outside of games is Cuda. That's an Nvidia exclusive as well & if you have any software that takes advantage of Cuda acceleration you might do well to consider Big Green.
However, things aren't so bad on AMD's side of the table. Per dollar spent you usually get more horsepower for your money with AMD & their cards are definitely more power-efficient than Nvidia's. AMD's cards handle a few esoteric video formats/codecs better than Nvidia as well.
If going with an Intel platform new chipsets are coming out touting the new PCIe v3.0 standard which are promising optimized data pathways for greater throughput. You can find this new standard in the new H77, Z77, and X79 chipsets. While PCIe v3.0 won't future-proof your new PC it might in the long run help you get a greater life-span out of it.
Now as for monitors, go big or go home. Try to find something with the ever-increasing more rare 16:10 aspect ratio. You won't notice much difference if watching movies at your desk, but you'll really value the extra screen space when you switch gears to productivity software.
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OK, I hear you guys.
How about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=128719&CatId=3774) monitor? Oh, and a link in case that one doesn't open for our friends across the pond here (http://www.nextag.com/I-INC-IH283HPB-28-857525713/prices-html).
I have never heard of I-Inc but most of the online reviews I've seen are positive and, as mentioned by Innuendo, it has a 16:10 aspect ratio.
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A 28" monitor sounds really nice.. BUT if it were me, personal preference, I'd rather have two 21" monitors.
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A 28" monitor sounds really nice.. BUT if it were me, personal preference, I'd rather have two 21" monitors.
-mouser
Hey, mouser. Yeah, I use multiple monitors (4, in fact) at work and it's really neat. I don't think I'd really like to play games on multiple monitors, though, due to the slight separation between them.
By the way, do you think you'll be able to get donations through Amazon shortly? If not, I'll just mail you a check.
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By the way, do you think you'll be able to get donations through Amazon shortly? If not, I'll just mail you a check.
We supported amazon for the longest time, then suddenly they sent me an email saying they have blocked our account because 1) they don't support "membership" clubs, and 2) because we offer lifetime guarantee. Been impossible to get help from them after that. I am still hoping that I can put up an alternative page that would allow people to "pay" through amazon as long as they are willing to think of it in their mind as a purchase without a lifetime guarantee :-\
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OT - Could you not just offer a range of electronic thank you cards on Amazon for a range of prices (aka donations) ?
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A 28" monitor sounds really nice.. BUT if it were me, personal preference, I'd rather have two 21" monitors.
-mouser
I think it all depends on how you work/play. I'd rather have one huge monitor rather than two smaller ones.
Okay! Okay! I'd rather have two huge montors. ;)
Seriously, though, since Miles plays games it might be best to stick with one monitor. A lot of games don't work well with multiple monitors.
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A lot of games don't work well with multiple monitors.
-Innuendo
I have three monitors and have found very few games that don't play well. For the couple of games that don't play well pressing Win + P and choosing just one monitor to play on invariably fixes the problem.
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Hey, Carol, I just ordered that case from Amazon, where I saved $27 on shipping from the link you provided.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GQMHBI/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
Um...that is the same case, right? I'm looking at both pictures and it looks like the same one but the Amazon listing isn't as informative as the one you linked.
I'm pretty sure it's the same one but I'm getting a little paranoid, as my budget is shrinking fast.
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Yes, same case - Antec Three Hundred.
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Yes that is the one. By the way one minor frustration of that case is that it doesn't come with an external 3.5" bay. You can buy a caddy from Antec if you need one, or if you don't mind losing the look of the front facia too much you can buy cheap 5.25" to 3.5" converters.
For example: http://www.amazon.com/5-25-To-3-5-Adapter-300/dp/B001CIOJAG
Other than that it is a great case with plenty of room for ventilation and good fans built in. It also has loads of space for adding internal hard disks (mine has 4 at the moment but I think it takes up to 6 not including the visible 5.25" slots).
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Yes that is the one. By the way one minor frustration of that case is that it doesn't come with an external 3.5" bay.-Carol Haynes
Not much need for an external 3.5" drive bay these days. In these parts, it's hard to find anyone with a 3.5" floppy drive anymore.
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I have three monitors and have found very few games that don't play well. For the couple of games that don't play well pressing Win + P and choosing just one monitor to play on invariably fixes the problem.-Carol Haynes
Glad to hear that gaming has finally caught up with multiple monitors. Now if the game developers would let us hook up enough for a 360 degree view. :)
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Yes that is the one. By the way one minor frustration of that case is that it doesn't come with an external 3.5" bay.-Carol Haynes
Not much need for an external 3.5" drive bay these days. In these parts, it's hard to find anyone with a 3.5" floppy drive anymore.
-Innuendo
Not so much if you want a floppy - but if you want to add a multi card reader or an eSATA caddy for plugin drives ...
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For good up to date information about processors, go to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
For the money, the Intel Core i7-2700K @ 3.50GHz is a very good performer.
I just built a system using AMD FX-8120 Eight-Core on an ASUS M5A786-M/USB3 motherboard with 2 x 4GB DDR3 SDRAM. With the included software, it can be easily overclocked. It is not as good as the Intel I mentioned above, but I shall be passing it on in about 6 months.
Word of warning about the case - Don't get a really cheap one as everything will be more difficult to fit. Especially look for the front connectors that you will want to have.
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For good up to date information about processors, go to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
For the money, the Intel Core i7-2700K @ 3.50GHz is a very good performer.
I just built a system using AMD FX-8120 Eight-Core on an ASUS M5A786-M/USB3 motherboard with 2 x 4GB DDR3 SDRAM. With the included software, it can be easily overclocked. It is not as good as the Intel I mentioned above, but I shall be passing it on in about 6 months.
Word of warning about the case - Don't get a really cheap one as everything will be more difficult to fit. Especially look for the front connectors that you will want to have.
-Antonimo
If my budget allowed it, I'd go with an i7. And, WOW! $1650 for some of those processors?
So, how much did that PC cost you, if you don't mind me asking.
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Core-i7 is more expensive than i5 but this one is probably just about within reach of your budget:
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-2600-Processor-3-4GHz-LGA1155/dp/B004EBUXSU
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I'd spring the extra $35 and get the i5-2500K (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1203205&CatId=22) - these things are probably the best 'bang for buck' CPU around, you can go up to 4.3GHz by just changing the multiplier, all on the stock HSF.-4wd
I'm no expert, but when buying myself (autumn last year) I read a few times that this one was best value/"bang for buck". The extra $80 (comparing with Carols link above) will get you more, but not really a whole lot more by the sounds of it.
So unless you really plan to use that extra, or if you just have the dosh... :D
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So, how much did that PC cost you, if you don't mind me asking.
-MilesOhToole
AMD Bulldozer FX-8120 8 Core 3.10GHz - Asus M5A78L-M USB3 HDMI Motherboard - 8GB DDR3 RAM Bundle cost £222 + VAT and delivery at Amazon.co.uk
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So, how much did that PC cost you, if you don't mind me asking.
-MilesOhToole
AMD Bulldozer FX-8120 8 Core 3.10GHz - Asus M5A78L-M USB3 HDMI Motherboard - 8GB DDR3 RAM Bundle cost £222 + VAT and delivery at Amazon.co.uk
-Antonimo
not bad. Time perhaps to upgrade another machine...
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Strange pricing - maybe it says more about the Bulldozer processor than anything else! I think it is probably worth waiting a CPU generation or two until they get it right.
Even though we have been talking about Intel chips in this thread I still prefer AMD in terms of bang for buck - they are just so my cheaper than Intel offerings - and I have found my Phenom II x6 very good - certainly spending two to three times the price on an i5 or i7 is hard to justify.
The other thing I like is that the Catalyst Drivers for AMD chipsets and AMD graphics card are all part of the same package which makes regular updates easier and it means the drivers are designed to work well together. All drivers have issues but I certainly found nVidia drivers caused more headaches especially if it wasn't an nVidia chipset on the mobo.
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Even though we have been talking about Intel chips in this thread I still prefer AMD in terms of bang for buck - they are just so my cheaper than Intel offerings - and I have found my Phenom II x6 very good - certainly spending two to three times the price on an i5 or i7 is hard to justify.-Carol Haynes
I always prefer AMD for the same reason but for others I'll recommend Intel because they always seem that little bit more stable and the less I get rung up about something, the better.
On a side note, I've just been given a Phenom II X6 1100T so (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/4Medium/098.gif)
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Well, I placed my order but the guy at Global said the Gigabyte motherboard was discontinued. Sure enough, I can't find it at Newegg or Tigerdirect, either, but at this time, I'm seeing it provided as a refurbished unit at http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2055964&CatId=6975
Should I buy that refurbished Mobo (at the same price as the new original mobo, I might add) or is there something else that's equivalent that I should get?
As a side-note, I got Windows 7 64-bit Professional for $68 and Office 2010 for free, no shipping cost. I won't bore you with the details but it was quite stressful and it involved my wife (the college student) accusing me of being reckless with our credit card, online, and thinking we got scammed. My wife was extremely upset and called the toll-free number and the supervisor at Microsoft Store showed some real sympathy for her and ultimately we were the fortunate party. I'll elaborate if anyone's interested. In the end, I'll have to congratulate Microsoft for their customer support. It was an adventure for a few hours, that's for sure.
I also received my Antec case, through Amazon. That thing is amazing! I might set up my tent and sleep in it tonight.
Thanks, everyone!
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GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=353599&CatId=6975) Intel Z68 Motherboard - ATX, Socket H2 (LGA 1155), Intel Z68 Chipset, 2133MHz DDR3, SATA 6.0 Gb/s, RAID, 7.1-CH Audio, Gigabit LAN, SuperSpeed USB 3.0, CrossFireX/SLI Ready
Pretty much the same specs for $149.99, (less with rebate) - has onboard gfx which won't be used, only two USB3 ports, (but eight USB2 ports), no PCIe x4/x8 slots but unless you're going to plug in a RAID, USB3 or SATA6 card, (which can also fit in the extra PCIe x16 slot), it's unlikely you'll need them.
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I wouldn't touch reburbished motherboards with a barge pole.
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One of the most overlooked components on a computer system is the power unit. Make sure you get one that has enough connections and wattage for what your putting into it, and a little more for future "enhancements/upgrades". For the ultimate game machine with lot's of energy eating CPU's,GPU's, components, etc, the power unit needs to be around 500 watts.
There is a help file on the net somewhere called "The Truth About Power Supplies" or something to that effect that will help guide you to finding the best PS for your computer specs, plus it tells you a secret or two about what specs to look for....
I've never dealt with AMD graphics before, even though I am a AMD CPU fan (no not the fan that blows....). lol I've always used nVidia graphics, but it just depends on what time of year it is weather it's the top dog or not. Last I read, nVidia just took the honors again, but that can change in a month or so.....
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Sadly I don't recall the precise specs I put into my comp, but as general advice, plan on making it last 8 years. That means spending a little more on misc components. The Power Supply post above is in that ballpark. So is a little extra ram. So is slightly better casing and fan. I (think) I put in a special digital converter chip because I make so many hobby copies of music ripped speed and pitch down. Better quality low level parts. etc. I have 1.74 terabytes of HD.
In return my then-high-end box from 2006 for some $1800 is still mid grade today, and I'm waiting out the whole Win8 fiasco. By the time it settles down into either Win7-or-bust or Win9 my design goal will be complete.
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I inherited my present computer from my dad when he passed away back in 03. He had bought this top of the line puter about 6 months prior, a HP Pavilion 9880 with a 1.5 ghz Intel cpu. Soon after I got it I proceeded to upgrading it. ;)
First thing I did was to blow away Winblows ME and installed XP SP3, then I added another half gig of RAM. Then I pulled out the 1.5 ghz cpu and installed a 2.8 ghz P4, replaced the CD to a DVD +-RW dual layer drive and a 52X CD RW, doubled the hard drive space, added an external 1 tb hard drive, replaced the graphics card with an nVidia 7600GS GPU with 512 mb on-board RAM, Audigy ZS surround sound card, bigger badder cooling fan + an extra cooling fan, bigger badder power supply and a host of other "little" things. Needless to say, even today this computer is faster than greased snot. ;)
I haven't been happy with Windows since they bombed us with Vista (even though ME was a tragedy), and now they're going to bomb us with Win 8 Metrocrap. Either they'll get their stuff together or I'll install Linux and use this computer for another 10 years. :-\ I just hate to have to abandon all of my Windows software, like ScreenShotCaptor. :'(
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.... plan on making it last 8 years..-TaoPhoenix
I have a different philosophy these days regarding computers:
Buy one generation behind the current - it will do the job for years ahead, it will cost heaps less and you'll be able to upgrade more often.
The old components get recycled into another whole computer for someone else or used for upgrading relatives computers, (my mum's still using my old Athlon XP 2500 machine - she doesn't want it upgraded because it just works).
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GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=353599&CatId=6975) Intel Z68 Motherboard - ATX, Socket H2 (LGA 1155), Intel Z68 Chipset, 2133MHz DDR3, SATA 6.0 Gb/s, RAID, 7.1-CH Audio, Gigabit LAN, SuperSpeed USB 3.0, CrossFireX/SLI Ready
Pretty much the same specs for $149.99, (less with rebate) - has onboard gfx which won't be used, only two USB3 ports, (but eight USB2 ports), no PCIe x4/x8 slots but unless you're going to plug in a RAID, USB3 or SATA6 card, (which can also fit in the extra PCIe x16 slot), it's unlikely you'll need them.
-4wd
Thanks! I've put the order in, along with a 1.5 TB HDD (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7331904&CatId=139) that I'll end up using for secondary storage after I RMA my failed 500 GB Seagate drive. I'm now wondering if that 5900 RPM will simply annoy me at the end of the day, though.
Also, a few years ago (maybe 3) I had my heatsink separate from the CPU and bought some Arctic Silver 5 to fix it. Is is still good to use or should I buy more thermal paste?
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As long as the tube it came in was sealed, then there should be no problem.
I still use stuff that's years old without a problem.
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Ditto - I use Arctic Silver that is a few years old too - just squeeze a small blob out and discard if it looks as though the nozzle has started to dry out - the stuff inside the tube should be fine.
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I'm also thinking about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6798095&CatId=2775) monitor, mainly due to it's 2ms response, size, price and the reviews are pretty good. Thoughts?
-MilesOhToole
That price doesn't look so good to me... especially in a non-LED backlit monitor.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175
If I'm paying near $150, I'm going for a bit larger monitor, LED backlit.
I wouldn't touch reburbished motherboards with a barge pole.
-Carol Haynes
This.
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OK, I hear you guys.
How about this (http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=128719&CatId=3774) monitor? Oh, and a link in case that one doesn't open for our friends across the pond here (http://www.nextag.com/I-INC-IH283HPB-28-857525713/prices-html).
I have never heard of I-Inc but most of the online reviews I've seen are positive and, as mentioned by Innuendo, it has a 16:10 aspect ratio.
-MilesOhToole
I just bought the 23 in ASUS LED backlit monitor and only paid $168, and it's totally awesome. Has the "Splendid" Video Intelligence Technology that save you a lot of time adjusting the monitor automatically.
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OK, guys...I'm now 8 hours into my PC build and officially exhausted. I've got to sleep right after this post.
And sorry I haven't been active here, lately. I've worked 6 days, straight with a 12-hour shift thrown in to make sure I have no life, whatsoever.
So, after hours of pouring over various manuals and research on the internet, I was finally finished with the PC, all except for the video card. I left that for last, just so I could see if the system would POST and all that.
I really had my doubts. I expected a complete failure, as I'm so exhausted from such a long day and stayed up WAY past my bedtime. (Luckily, I'm off tomorrow).
So, my PC works, as far as I know, since it did POST and I was able to install Windows 7 Pro 64. I don't know about the front-side USB and audio yet...no time to test it.
I have a question, though. Like I said earlier, I bought Windows 7 at a discounted price since my wife is in college. They mailed me 2 discs, one labeled Windows 7 Professional 32 Bit and another, Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit Upgrade.
Do I have to install the 32 bit first? Because I skipped that one and went straight for the 64 Bit one, instead. Install went fine, but when I tried to type in the registration key, it was denied...twice. The registration key was emailed to my wife's college address from Microsoft. Of course, I was able to finish install, but why isn't the key working? And, I only have one key, not like I have one for both versions. Oh, and they failed to give me Office 2010. I only have a download available for Windows and they sent a backup copy on disc, free of charge. I'm not even going to bother with that. I'll download OpenOffice, instead.
I took various pictures of the build that I'll upload later. I really thought I would be able to do some clever cable management, but that thing is a mess. Cables just don't seem to be long enough to reroute and it's eSpaghetti, in there. Probably my fault, as it's my first build and not understanding what should go where, first, and what will get in the way of the other thing.
Hey, at least (so far) I plugged the right cables into the right hardware and it's actually working!!!
Thanks to all of you for helping!
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Do I have to install the 32 bit first?-MilesOhToole
No.
Install went fine, but when I tried to type in the registration key, it was denied...twice.
Right-click Computer->Properties->Change Product KeyActivate Now
Enter your key there and it should register just fine - I have to do the same thing because I'm using an "upgrade" DVD to do a scratch install.
As a side note to your build, I picked up the February issue of Australian PC User from the local library the other day and they had a feature on upgrades:
Intel Core i5-2500K (PCUser Best Buy) - Comparing it to an i7-2700K:- Only until they overclocked the i7 to 4.4GHz was it able to get ahead of the i5 @ 4.4GHz in their benchmarks - that's got to say something about the sheer grunt the i5 has.
As they put it:
Ask yourself which do you want: 5% more speed or AU$140 in your pocket?
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 (PCUser Best Buy)
Radeon HD6850 or HD6870 - Best cards under AU$200
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Do I have to install the 32 bit first?-MilesOhToole
No.
Install went fine, but when I tried to type in the registration key, it was denied...twice.
Right-click Computer->Properties->Change Product Key
Enter your key there and it should register just fine - I have to do the same thing because I'm using an "upgrade" DVD to do a scratch install.
As a side note to your build, I picked up the February issue of Australian PC User from the local library the other day and they had a feature on upgrades:
Intel Core i5-2500K (PCUser Best Buy) - Comparing it to an i7-2700K:- Only until they overclocked the i7 to 4.4GHz was it able to get ahead of the i5 @ 4.4GHz in their benchmarks - that's got to say something about the sheer grunt the i5 has.
As they put it:
Ask yourself which do you want: 5% more speed or AU$140 in your pocket?
Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 (PCUser Best Buy)
Radeon HD6850 or HD6870 - Best cards under AU$200
-4wd
Well, I did what you said and now it's coming up with "The Software Licensing Service determined this key is...for upgrading, not clean installation."
I just double-checked and, yep, I only have that one key. And microsoft store is closed right now, of course. I have 2 more days left.
Edited above. Actually, it says 2 more days before automatic activation. So, will it automatically activate without me having to do anything? I don't really understand that.
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Well, I did what you said and now it's coming up with "The Software Licensing Service determined this key is...for upgrading, not clean installation."-MilesOhToole
That's what I usually get...wait, I think I got that the wrong way round.
Click the Activate now link, select Activate online now and then enter the key.
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Sorry, the Change Product link if for you buy an Upgrade to Professional or Ultimate - you just enter the key and the requisite features are enabled.
Actually, it says 2 more days before automatic activation. So, will it automatically activate without me having to do anything? I don't really understand that.
It will go into trial mode which lasts for 30 days, after that time you have to activate it, remove it or rearm.
As you can see from the pic above, there's 22 days left to activate, (WHS 2011), when it gets close to 0 days I can enter the following at a CLI prompt, (assuming I haven't bought it by then):
slmgr.vbs –rearm
After reboot, I'll have another 30 days grace period - I can do this 3 times for a total of 120 days activation grace period.
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That's what I usually get...wait, I think I got that the wrong way round.
Click the Activate now link, select Activate online now and then enter the key.
(see attachment in previous post (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=30436.msg286212#msg286212))
Sorry, the Change Product link if for you buy an Upgrade to Professional or Ultimate - you just enter the key and the requisite features are enabled.
It will go into trial mode which lasts for 30 days, after that time you have to activate it, remove it or rearm.
As you can see from the pic above, there's 22 days left to activate, (WHS 2011), when it gets close to 0 days I can enter the following at a CLI prompt, (assuming I haven't bought it by then):
slmgr.vbs –rearm
After reboot, I'll have another 30 days grace period - I can do this 3 times for a total of 120 days activation grace period.
-4wd
Oh, haha...well, somehow I read "change product key" and it completely left my brain, so I did do the activate now.
Thanks for the help and I'll try it again. If I'm unsuccessful, I'll call Microsoft tomorrow morning.
I just found this (http://www.mydigitallife.info/clean-install-windows-7-with-upgrade-media-and-product-key-on-formatted-or-empty-blank-hard-drive/). I wonder if it really works.
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Oh, haha...well, somehow I read "change product key" and it completely left my brain, so I did do the activate now.-MilesOhToole
Well put it this way, one of those links will accept the cd-key - that's the only way I've done it.
I've never had to call Microsoft even though I'm using Upgrade media for Clean install, (since you need to Clean install anyway if you had XP, I don't see much point in installing XP first just to verify that I'm Upgrading XP).
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Windows should just activate or click activate now.
If it complains there is something wrong somewhere.
Change Product Key isn't used for upgrading - you do that through the Anytime Upgrade window. It maybe the original key you type was incorrect - use change product key again and enter the key again - make sure to distinguish the letter B and number 8 - I have had a number of occasions when they are almost imperceptibly different on the labels. After entering they key use activate now or let it activate immediately if offered - make sure you have an active internet connection before you start.
The only reasons for activation to fails after that are:
- You tried to activate too many times in quick succession and so the server refuses to allow further automatic activation.
- You have a dodgy key - a while ago MS used to produce OEM packages with the keys on the outside - if you got old stock someone may have already used it. Recently the keys have been on the inside of the packaging.
- You still have the wrong key entered - but that is unlikely because the system won't accept one it doesn't consider valid.
- Microsoft server are screwed (probably most likely)
In any of these scenarios you need to call Microsoft and get a manual activation key.
Have you tried the MS automated phone system - that should work 24/7. Your local number shows up when activation fails. (Sorry haven't read all the comments above).