DonationCoder.com Forum
Special User Sections => Other Stuff => General Review Discussion => Topic started by: zridling on August 14, 2005, 06:42 PM
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I'm so excited! I've signed on to review Archive/Compression applications and I need your input. I've composed the following list based on their download popularity from a variety of download sites (CNET, FileForum, SnapFiles, FileHippo, etc.), and DCC member suggestions below. Although the market is flooded with ZIP apps, if you have a suggestion or a favorite not listed, let us know! In alphabetical order:
- (01) 7-Zip (http://www.7-zip.org/)
- (02) ALZip (http://www.altools.net/Default.aspx?tabid=47) (added 17-AUG)
- (03) IZArc (http://www.izarc.org/) (added 17-AUG)
- (04) PKZip (http://www.pkware.com/)
- (05) PowerArchiver (http://www.powerarchiver.com/)
- (06) PowerZip (http://www.powerzip.biz/)
- (07) QuickZip (http://www.quickzip.org/) (added 23-AUG)
- (08) TUGZip (http://www.tugzip.com/) (added 14-AUG)
- (09) WinAce (http://www.winace.com/)
- (10) WinRAR (http://www.rarlab.com/)
- (11) WinRK (http://www.msoftware.co.nz/)
- (12) WinZip (http://www.winzip.com)
- (13) ZipGenius (http://www.zipgenius.it/index_eng.htm)
- (14) ZipMagic Deluxe (http://www.stuffit.com/win/zipmagic/index.html) (aka StuffIt)
I intend to have the first draft of the review will be available to members for feedback and revision by Sunday, 28 August 2005. Caveat: This review will focus on the best overall application, not the best data compression format. And in case you're unaware of it, DonationCoder.com has its own resident compression expert, Jibz (https://www.donationcoder.com/Columns/mts/b_jibz/) of Ibsen Software (http://www.ibsensoftware.com/index.html).
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Hi!
I use TUGZip and am very happy with it.
http://www.tugzip.com/
spj
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here are some things i love about winzip and winrar which i use often:
both can make self extracting executable (sfx), that can also be unpacked by a right click drag operation - i just love that.
i working with drag and drop and in shell all the time, so right click context menu extensions are super important to me.
both winrar and winzip both handle this great. if you select 10 zips or rars, you could right click drag and you get options to unpack them all into destination dir, or unpack all each into their own named subdir. for me personally thats the first way i would eliminate candidate apps that don't provide those functions.
no archive app that doesnt offer me that will ever be used by me.
i also mentioned this before but i LOVE the file splitting support in winrar - it's just perfect for if you want to split up files, because it can add strong encryption, and great compatibility, and nice options for how to split. so thats a real plus in my book.
for compatibility you can't be zip format, which is very important if you plan to share files.
another advantage: you can get free programs that will create zip files, and create sfx zip exes, but only the official rar/winrar can make .rar files, which i think sucks.
i will take a much deeper look at some of the candidate programs and give a better opinion. i know that 7-zip has a good reputation among some good people so i think i need to give that especially another look.
and i am curious to hear what jibz thinks..
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Wow, thanks for the feedback guys, and spj, I will add TUGZip to the list for review.
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i use winrar so i'd have to agree with everything mouser said.
i've not tried winzip for a number of years - is it now capable of making a self extracting archive within one operation or does it still have to produce a standard zip file first?
the only thing i can suggest that might be worth looking at whilst comparing the different archivers is their ability to create 'user friendly' menus with their respective self extracting archives: mainly options that allow you to mimic a standard installation process. i know winrar sort of does this as you can have shortcuts automatically created in various places and other commands performed.
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Hi Zaine,
A zipping utility that I don't see on your list is ALTools' freeware app ALZip, which can be found here: http://www.altools.net/Default.aspx?tabid=53. I no longer have it installed (needed to do so to extract an mp3 for my wife that was archived using ALZip's proprietary format), but it seemed feature rich and easy to use.
Myself, I have PKZip (bought it years ago and am very used to it) and Stuff-It Deluxe (got a great deal on it from Allume about a year ago - I'm one of those people who is perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy thanks to all the things I have bought to save money ;)) installed and CANNOT decide which one to keep and which to get rid of! I guess it boils down to the fact that I simply don't use the feature set of either enough to make an informed decision. I keep returning to WinRar, too, in the sense that I love some of the features that it has, such as the repair tool, but at this point can't justify forking out more money for ANOTHER utility when I believe that I already have two very good stand alone compression utilities AND a file manager that does a decent job, too).
Actually, while we're on the subject, my favourite app is Dopus and it's got built in zip/unzip functionality that goes beyond that of XP's native support, as does Diskjockey File Viewer (http://www.clear-simple.com/ - yes, I own both of these, too, refer to my comment above re: saving money, or should that be a fool and his money?). I don't know which of the other Explorer replacements have this feature but it seems pretty common, so you might consider looking at some of these applications and their compression features as well. Hmmm... I guess you're going to have to draw the line somewhere otherwise you'll never finish the review!
Cheers,
Mike
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Nudone, WinRAR seems to be an exception to several rules, among them SFX creation and management. WinZip, however (along with PowerArchiver), only makes an EXE out of an existing ZIP file. It's "Self-Extractor Personal Edition," not to be confused with their $49 WinZip Self-Extractor app. Given that SFX Maker is both standard and freeware, and that it integrates with WinZip, I cannot imagine any informed person paying for it. From WinZip's description, the $49 WinZip Self-Extractor app is independent of WinZip itself, separately licensed, and does not require WinZip for creating .EXEs. This page (http://www.winzip.com/xsepedif.htm) lists the differences between it and the Personal Edition.
And thanks for the suggestions, Darwin. I'll look into them. My starting point was download popularity. Of two types of apps, it seems every other company makes a ZIP and FTP utility. ALZip seems to fall into that category, much like PocoZip and ACDZip.
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yep, winzip policy of requiring extra purchase to make sfx is not cool.
but there are some free tools that can make sfx apps from zips.
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trying tugzip - must say i'm impressed.
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At present I am using IZarc (http://www.izarc.org/) - generally satisfied, though there is an annoying bug with drag and drop (It doesn't extract subdirectories!)
Worth a look though as it is freeware and supports many formats.
Ampa
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Thanks for the suggestion Ampa! Mouser, I'm with you. I'd never heard of TUGZip, but it makes a good first impression. I did compression tests throughout the day on the side while reading the Help files to make sure of everything and found some surprising results. As a teaser, let me say I was surprised. What most people say (and believe) isn't true. Now I'll zip it, no pun intended.
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thought i better try TUGZip being as you guys have praised it.
have to agree, appears to be an excellent app. especially like the explorer layout - i think it beats winace.
going to keep it as the default archive tool for a few days and i wouldn't be too surprised if it stays that way.
(also like the ace/rar compression ability if you add the right files, oh, and the .nrg file support.)
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i loved the easy way you can customize the right click context menu in tugzip, and the support for being able to create rar files if you have winrar on your system was very neat.
Also i'll note that tugzip includes an sfx maker which is very easy to use,
though i found it not powerful enough for creating donationcoder.com sfx installers, at least at first glance, since it was missing some of the options i use to show information to user and unpack automatically in temp directory,etc.
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Hi again,
Point taken about ALZip, but I wanted to stress that it is freeware (for personal use) that offers, among other things, sfx creation, file repair, opening of 35 formats and archiving in 8 of them, and file splitting/joining of archives (the last feature only when using its native format, ALZ) whereas Pocozip and ACDZip are shareware products that cost as much as PKZip, WinZip and Stuff-It... Still, I will be neither suprised (read following) nor offended if it doesn't make the cut for consideration in the review.
Now having said the foregoing, I've looked at tugzip's homepage and after reading the feature list, looking at the screenshots, and reading the comments here can only say "wow" - this is freeware?! I'm not installing it - yet - but am awaiting the outcome of the review, which I will be reading it with interest.
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Got WinZip, WinRAR and StuffIT on my system
Got to say my favourite is WinRAR, I like the fact that WinRAR can add information to a Zip to help protect the integrity of the Zip file, and also lock contents. Plus RAR seems to be just about the most efficient packing algorithm - certainly beats Zip format.
WinZIP is the ubiquotous compression format and WinZip is hard to beat for speed. I also has the advantage of a plugin for MS Outlook XP/2003 which allows attachments to be compressed on the fly when sending emails - which is a nice idea. Also WinZIP has a full, well documented command line interface.
StuffIt is my least favourite and I only really use it for unpacking the odd .sit file. The StuffIt interface is clunky and confusing IMHO.
I also tried ACDZip for a while (from ACD Systems who make ACDSee) - again I found it a bit limiting and the interface somewhat clunky.
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have to say im not a fan of stuffit either.
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Darwin, I've been working with ALZip throughout the day and its attraction lay in its simplicity. Where apps like PowerArchiver and ZipGenius load up on options and features, ALZip keeps everything straightforward and simple. In fact, you picked the perfect word: simple. It even shares several major features of other, more advanced apps, but is neither polished nor does it include the finer things the others share. But it doesn't measure up to the current crop apps in any category. Among them are several prominent misspellings in the Help file and this inaccurate claim:
Does ALZip support the RAR format?
Yes, but you can only extract RAR files due to copyright issues. Eugene Roshal of RarSoft, the company that makes WinRAR, doesn't allow other utilities to create RAR archive files.
Say the word and I'll be happy to include it in the review. One more won't hurt, but I want to limit this review's scope.
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Hi Zaine,
Funny, you posted this just as I finished uninstalling Stuff-It. I took a good hard look at it and uninstalled it for reasons similar to those that you mention with respect to ZipGenius and PowerArchiver - there are a lot of bells and whistles but they don't necessarily enhance the user experience. At any rate, not to worry about including ALZip, I really just suggested it because I didn't see it on your initial list. If as you're writing the review you feel that it will benefit from ALZip's inclusion, great, but otherwise save your time and words for better executed candidates.
I'm really looking forward to this review - I didn't expect to really care that much, but over the last couple of days I've come to realise how much I depend on archiving utilities and am keen to see which apps come out on top.
Thanks for taking this one on board, Zaine, and thanks, too for the Great Software site - among other things you led me here and to some fantastic software!
Best,
Mike
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I appreciate the feedback Mike. I'll have some interesting things to say about StuffIt, having now spent a week with it. StuffIt started as an Apple/Mac application and never caught on with the Windows crowd for one obvious reason: WinZip took the Windows world by storm early on and could be used beyond its trial period for free. (But now that Venture Capital bought WinZip, they're seeing registrations as a revenue source. They also bought WordPerfect about a year ago from Corel.) I will be happy to include ALZip if for no other reason, that new users might want and/or need such a program starting out.
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Cool. There's a wide range of users out their with an even greater range of archiving needs and a tool such as ALZip might be all (even more than) they need. Truth be told, I am probably one of those people!
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I have pretty simple needs, mostly unzipping stuf that I've downloaded. I tried a few of the ones on your list before settling on winrar as the easiest to use and with the best interface. Best free application for me has been tugzip, which I use at work.
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Thanks for the input, yacht_boy, I appreciate it.
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i don't know if others are the same as me, but personally i dont like these archive interfaces that are like full file explorers with folder tree, etc. i rather use my own file explorer, and have my archive program open in a small window just showing contents.
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mouser, is that because of the poor Explorer-like implementation in many archive programs or just from being old school? It seems less confusing for me at least, to work without an Explorer view in an archiver; less visual noise I think.
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yeah, exactly.
the thing is im one of those people who always has a file explorer window or two open, and i can do 95% of all zipping and unzipping from within directory opus or whatever file browser im using. i dont need my zip program to also try to be a full explorer, i rather it just show me the contents of the archive and not distract me with other stuff.
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I agree too, its about the only thing I dislike about WinRAR
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Yeah, I've got to say I agree with this as well. My usage sounds similar to Mouser's - I've always got at least one Dopus window open and don't need another faux file manager opening each time I want to zip/unzip a file. That's why context menu support is important to me.
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carol, winrar doesnt try to be a file explorer - unless im missing something?
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???
(http://www.lairdswood.com/images/Screenshot.gif)
Looks like a file browser to me ???
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I would say winrar uses the minimal amount of hooks into explorer's API to enable navigation, honoring file associations, etc, but that's about it. So browser; yes but file explorer; no.
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ah fair enough, you're right, but jpfx is right too -
in fact i think winrar strikes the perfect balance.
when you open up an archive it looks like you are just looking inside that archive, but you can pop out to the parent folder, which can be useful actually. i actually find it a perfect balance.
i was more obecting to the zip programs that have the full dual panel folder tree, etc.
i actually like tugzip a lot, and it has options how you want to view it, whether you want full browser mode or the compact mode i prefer. here is the full browser mode screenshot that shows what i was saying i don't like: http://www.tugzip.com/screenshots/main.jpg
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Carol, I must say, that's a kickass system you have! Like mouser, I've never thought of using WinRAR's Explorer capabilities. I was playing around with a new Windows Explorer replacement and it's funny how those programs want to do everything for you and toss your other apps — open pictures, associate archives, FTP!, back massage, and so on. Almost every time, they don't do them well either.
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Just a shame it seems to be my ass that gets kicked a lot.
I set up like this to allow me to separate out Audio, video and graphic apps so that they can run without virus apps (no internet) etc., and avoid all the usual crap that accumulates under Windoze and slows the system down. They all share the same Temp folder and PageFile too, and data storage is common to all installations.
Trouble is that even though I spent hours planning and setting up my ideal system, I still install almost everything on drive C: too - so day to day stuff still runs like swimming through treacle and my "ideal" parallel installations get under used.
Good in principle though ;)
Back on topic ...
I realise WinRAR has pretty minimal explorer capabilities, but I still personally find it unnecessary. I would prefer it is when I double click on an archive it simply shows the contents. The ability to move up to the parent directory doesn't really serve any purpose to my mind, and it gets confusing if you navigate about, forget where you are and start adding files to the archive.
OK maybe I am simple minded, but I would prefer to see the archive contents only (possibly with a tree view option), and if I want to add files etc. I just drag them in from Explorer.
It is possible to work like this, so I am being over picky probably, but it seems a more logical and less confusing approach to my simple mind. :-[
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Good points, but as I'll show in my review, the best programmers aren't building archivers right now. There are several classes of programs that are delegated freeware, and this is one of them. Even the WinZip people (Venture Capital) wondered why no one ever paid for it. Every archiver has some good qualities, but for the most part, it's who is minimizing the poor quality features that appear to be the best.
If that's too cryptic, it's because I've been up almost 24 hours and my brain is drying out.
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Note that the freeware QuickZip (http://www.quickzip.org/) was added to the list today (Tuesday, 23rd).
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FWIW I use (and I think I like) ZipGenius. I am looking forward to the review especially of Stuffit.
Regards,
Jeff
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ZipGenius has a lot of features, and StuffIt (ZipMagic) was most interesting, aggravating, and interesting again.
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I am a proud user of winrar and have been using it for years.
90% of the time, I use the right click context menu.. Add to archive/Add to archive "xyz.rar" and Extract Here/Extract to XYZ\
Stuffit.. .bleh. far too many problems ranging for hogging 100% cpu on idle to freezing the system. fun fun. ;D
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Thanks Cloq. I want to update this archive review sometime in 2007, or when significant upgrades have been made to a few of the top programs.
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Zaine,
although both this thread and the last posts are somewhat dated, I just stumbled across your announcement to update the review and would like to add some remarks and suggestions.
I think it is important to not compare apples and oranges and make clear if you examine the archiving program or the archive format (or which combination of the two). And while I use WinRAR myself as my standard archiver (after using an older version of Squeez for years; I just dont like the colors of the new Squeez interface and happened to find a free copy of WinRAR 3.4 in a magazine), I think the review had some severe problems that unfairly favored WinRAR.
As we all know, the RAR format is proprietary, which sets it apart from formats like ZIP, 7z or SQX. Therefore no other archiver can legally create RAR archives. So IMO it's not a good idea to make RAR creation a criterion to judge packers.
Regarding RAR creation in Squeez and TugZip: Squeez can only create RAR 2 archives. Rarlabs changed both the archive format and the license (for the unpacker) with RAR 3 so it can't be reverse engineered anymore to create a packer (this is the same with the WinAce format support in Squeez). This incompatibility with recent RAR archives in some way defeats the purpose of RAR support in Squeez (RAR 2 archives are also less efficient than RAR 3 ones). BTW: (1) Rainer Nausedat, who reverse-engineered the RAR format for Squeez and invented the SQX format (which I like), unfortunately died in 2004. (2) There is also a free (for personal and educational use) version of Squeez called "ZipStar" that extracts (among others) and creates (only) ZIP (including ZIP64 and AES) SQX, and CAB (see http://www.speedproject.de/zipstar/index.html). Maybe you could add ZipStar.
TugZip relies on RAR/WinRAR present on your machine. While it's a clever hack, it's hard to give all the credits for that to TugZip. Personally, I find TugZip's (even more than Squeez') interface annoying and bloated.
At least, RAR and 7z extraction and creation should be judged separately. 7z is an open source format that can freely be integrated into a packer, so those two formats should be clearly distinguished.
You may also want to have a look at an (overly?) ambitious comparison of archivers I came across on http://www.rojakpot.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=4&pgno=0 which has yet to deliver more than part 1 of 3. The first part concentrated on "fast" settings and had the command-line packers gzip and arj32 (may I suggest adding those or is that too far off?) come out as efficiency kings, followed by WinZip. I liked their way to measure efficiency by KB saved / second.
Another solution worth of consideration might be to use a file manager as packer shell. Both Speed Commander (from the same company as Squeez) and Total Commander handle a lot of archiving formats (for text-only diehards, FAR also does that). TC can, via the MultiArc plugin, probably handle every archiver that can be controlled with the command line (I don't use MultiArc myself, I only used the SQX and CAB plugins for a while). That's very nice (and TC is the king of filesystem support as well).
Regards,
Alex
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very nice comments alex - until the review is updated at least we have the posts in this thread to supplement it :Thmbsup:
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I used to use TugZip before I switched to WinRAR about a year ago. Now if I could only remember what made me switch ... :-[
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Alex, you're right on, and it's a fundamental weakness of the review. I hope by the end of the year to revisit and update the review. I've been waiting for another big round of upgrades, but this software category upgrades very slowly. So I might need an incremental approach. Again, thanks for your input, along with many others.
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...just show me the contents of the archive and not distract me with other stuff.
-mouser
yeah, just show and don't distract, and in this case 7z is the best.
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my archive needs are simple and lately i have been using peazip - cute, simple, no install needed etc.
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I'd like to add that the compression review I had mentioned under http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=4 has now been completed, and they also updated part 1, with findings that are significantly different from their former results. Go figure.
Anyway, that's probably not how a review of archivers should be done in the first place (only measuring compression and completely ignoring features, usability and the like). A more user-friendly perspective like Zaine had taken in the review here is clearly more reasonable.
And, yes, I have to confess that suggesting arj32 was probably a strange idea (but gzip is a different story).
I'm looking forward to the updated review, but Zaine probably deserves a rest after the huge word processor review he has done (great job!).
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Wow, thanks alxwz! Yea, I have to get in a manic, altered state to work on those reviews. I have an IV drip of liquid chocolate going right now to bulk up for a 'Best Archive Tools revision later this year. Once I hit 300, I'll sleep for a week, and then get to work. Oh, and thanks for the link. The Techarp review went nuts on the charts and graphs. I'm glad he took the time to tell us that media files that are already compressed (e.g., MP3) are "difficult to compress." Okay.
Maybe I'll go for a whole rewrite and reduce the number of apps. I use 7-Zip a lot and see a LOT of folks using PeaZip as iphigenie noted. I'm serious: if a software app can't perform, then it's really a waste of time to review it, telling everyone that it's bad in every imaginable way: You could install Ultra Crap Factor Pro on your system, but you'd be better off going with a nice fat Sasser worm.
You get the drift.
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Hi, I have read archive tool comparison on DonationCoder and found it interesting, with a lot of interesting tips and hints about usability.
I too hope you will update the comparison with latest version of archivers, and I hope you may find PeaZip worthy of inclusion in this comparative review.
In this case please remember it's still a very young program (while other ones are definitely more mature programs) and it's undergoing active development; you can find latest releases of PeaZip and PeaZip_portable for Windows and Linux on SourceForge.
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I've been searching (weeks)for:
a explorer-like GUI of Self Package (SFX) where you can drag n' drop files into the archive.(or prompt for password).. the idea is to make it a self-container (the files and the application) for easy distribution of files.. similar to "fSekrit" notes.. making it portable..
The question is.. have you encountered anything like it? coz for me.. that would be the best..
Thanks
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peazip does something that seems to match your description, to me, but i could misunderstand
edit: actually at the moment i cannot make this work, it might say "add to self extracting..." but it creates one file per file :S
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I've been searching (weeks)for:
a explorer-like GUI of Self Package (SFX) where you can drag n' drop files into the archive.(or prompt for password).. the idea is to make it a self-container (the files and the application) for easy distribution of files.. similar to "fSekrit" notes.. making it portable..
-psionics
That sparks an idea. Well, this may be exactly what you are looking for, but I have never seen fSekrit, so I don't know if it is what you are looking for but...
An EXE that you can just copy/drag&drop where you wanted. For example from USB to desktop and back. If you double-click on the application (run it) it opens up, as it is a SFX and displays the files so you can extract them via double-click or drag&drop. You then close the program. With the you can then just drag&drop files on to the icon and it adds or updates the file into the SFX. You could even have options for it to automatically rename files in the archive with a datetime stamp to create versions of a file instead of overwriting it.
This is one of those ideas that is either 1) a hundred people have already written such an application or B) a hundred people are slapping their foreheads going "Why didn't I think of that? That is such a simple idea."
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Hi iphigenie, as for creation of self extracting archives with PeaZip (btw: today it was updated to 1.9.3 release) the quickest way is using "+ Add to self-extracting archive" entry in SendTo menu.
It can directly send multiple files and directories to a single sfx archive, the number of files which can be passed in that way depends on the host Operating System. The resulting executable is authomatically named as the first selected object.
If you prefer to have more fine grained options you should instead use "+ Add to archive" entry in SendTo, select 7z format (which is the default one) and flag "Create self-extracting archive" checkbox in Options tab; in this way you can add multiple files/dirs at once and you can add/remove items from PeaZip's GUI too.
Another way just a bit different is using "+ Add to separate archive(s)" from context menu, which send each input to a separate archive; that entry is meant to allow users to process in parallel many objects, i.e. a directory of files which I want to be individually compressed, but not consolidated in a single archive (the same, sending multiple objects to be processed in parallel, is possible for extraction too).
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Welcome to the site giorgio! Glad to have you stop by :up:
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Thanks giorgio :Thmbsup:
I thought you could do it with peazip but when I tried it it named the file with the name of the first one and I mistakenly thought "hmm, maybe it only does one file at a time". Glad to know my first instinct was right.
Peazip is my compression tool of choice, I have mentioned it here a few times. Clean, simple, powerful enough for everything I can think of but with no unnecessary clutter... just lovely. The name is great too :D
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Ok, to clear the info:
im looking for someone who can code this apps. or similar
"a Self Package (SFX) ~ .exe with explorer-like GUI"
* Drag n Drop files inside that box (there is only two way)
* updates(overwrites) the file when there's duplicate
* able to delete the file inside by pressing del key or rightclick delete
* independent, which mean, the extracting and compressing feature in built-in.. like a shell, a single file, self-contained, portable
* wish list: encryption function and password (or else, will just act like the default XP zip folders)
that would be great..
re: tinjaw
somthing like this, fSekrit(link below) try it also - but files are involved
https://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Other/fSekrit/
Welcome to the site giorgio!
thanks for the replies..
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So I guess peazip can't do that... right?
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nope.. peazip uses right-click.. and has to be, somehow to register in windows registry even if there's a portable version.
i hope someone can develop something like this: (Click ~ to Open)
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I am looking for a compression utility that does not install itself. I am sooo frigging tired of installers. Even portable versions of compression apps are coming in installer form which is beyond me.
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I have been a faithful user of Filzip for ages. www.filzip.com. It hasn't been updated for a while, but it does the trick pretty well. It's free, lightweight, and the interface resembles the classic Winzip one, but it includes a tree view at the left, which is quite convenient (I know, Winzip has it too, but back in the day, it didn't). It even has a (limited) cmd line interface. The only glitches I have found are:
1. Mouser points out that Winzip and Winrar can uncompress many files at once, each in its own subdir. I have found no other program to do this, and sometimes it is so necessary.
2. Sometimes I have problems decompressing RAR archives with "nonstandard" characters on the contents' file names. I resort to command-line unrar.exe in these cases.
3. Some newer programs can read and extract files from ISO CD images. Filzip can't. This is not compression pre se, but it can be useful.
Every now and then I look around for something newer and better, but I keep coming back. I am reading the other suggestions and see if there is anything new under the sun. Right now I'm trying QuickZip and looks good. I'll let you know; I just wanted to add my 2 cents on good ol' Filzip.