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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Mark0 on January 08, 2009, 07:40 AM
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I had always being interested in this kind of eInk devices, from the first time I read about the "venarable" Sony Librie (around 2004).
So, after much time I got a Cybook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybook) for Christmas, thanks of an especially good offer from an UK reseller (thanks also from the favorable GBP / Euro ratio!) and a friend that got one there for me and taken it bake to Italy.
After some days and a couple of book read on it, I can say I'm very satisfied by the device from Bookeen (http://www.bookeen.com/ebook/ebook-reading-device.aspx). The readability really is something special: after a very brief time, one just forget he isn't reading a real book.
Still, it's not a device for all kind of reading. Documentations or text in PDF format isn't very suited for this kind of readers with a small screens, for obvious reasons. Also, since the user interface is minimalistic, and the screen refresh is somewhat slow due to the current eInk tech, quick "skimmings" between the pages to locate some specific content isn't very practical.
But for simply reading (e)books / novels, one page after another, it's just perfect. It's portable like a small paperback, even if you are reading a 1500 pages novel. The font size is always the one you prefer & choose. Refresh on page turn isn't an annoyance at all. You can take tens of book with you on vacation in a fraction of the spaces.
Here are some images of the Cybook from Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=cybook&w=all
A very nice reasource about eBook readers: http://www.mobileread.com/
Any other eInk users here?
Bye!
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Still have an original Sony Librie, but haven't used it much lately.
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I've used Mobipocket ebook Reader (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/downloadsoft/productdetailsreader.asp) very successfully on my Blackberry and Motorola Q. I have an 8G micro SD card in my Q that can hold more books than I want. :two:
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What are the obvious problem with reading pdfs on it?
Thanks for pointing that out btw. I was almost close to buying a Kindle for the sole reason as to view pdfs.
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Basically the majority of PDF are made to be printed on A4 or similar sized paper.
Typical eInk screens on this kind of devices is 6", so you have to resort to zooming out (and then the resolution isn't high enough to read well, and anyway it would be way too small), or display just a small part of the page, and scroll around (and that's not too practical either).
A device like the new Foxit eSlick (http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/) (witch is the same as the Cybook, but with different software) is a bit more advanced regarding PDF, implementing some sort of reflow. But still it's far from ideal, IMHO. Even more, if the PDF documents are some kind of reference, manuals, etc., instead of a book/novel, jumping around pages & sections isn't very practical either, because of the not instant screen refresh, and the somewhat simplified UI (the Cybook have no search function, for example).
iRex recently introduced some BIG readers, the 1000 serie (http://www.irextechnologies.com/irexdr1000).
This would probably be perfect for the job, having also a touch screen and a more sophisticated interface. But obviously the price is much higher, and they are less portable.
Bye!
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I see...
Thanks for the detailed explanation. If you don't mind me asking, what is the best suited way to read pdfs?
I constantly hear they are for printing but I rarely encountered problems with printing with the usual word processor formats so I had always assumed they are more of a viewer format but reading your reply, this doesn't seem to be the case.
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I've been using portable devices to read eBooks for many years now. I started way-back-when on a Palm, and have been through a few generations of PocketPC devices. I'm currently using a Dell Axim x51v which, with its VGA display, is absolutely gorgeous to read from. And while these don't have the battery life of your eink device, they're much more flexible.
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I despise the way that most ebook readers carry the limitations of pagination into the digital world. Pages are evil. They interrupt the flow, preventing you from smoothly scanning through the whole book. At the end of a page you must remember the first half of the sentence without being able to see the rest of the context, then flip the page to complete it without being able to see the start.
PDF files give you the absolute worst of this world. Since their raison d'etre is to duplicate the look of printed output, and you're displaying on a device that doesn't match the attributes of paper, you're guaranteed to be disappointed in one way or another. When faced with a PDF I usually say "forget it", in the few cases where I can't stand to I'll use a PDF2TXT or PDF2HTML converter to try and get the content out of the file.
For my whole ebook experience I've been using a single piece of software, iSilo (http://www.isilo.com/). It's been ported to pretty much everywhere, so any device you like it should run on. It's a fair reader in all respects, having all the normal features of bookmarks, hyperlinking, etc. But to me, its compelling feature is that it's not bound by page breaks. It allows continuous reading throughout the document. I've got it configured so that it scrolls by 1/2 screen at a time, so I can always see an unbroken sentence (or paragraph, for that matter).
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what is the best suited way to read pdfs?
I constantly hear they are for printing -Paul Keith
... paper :)
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I agree too! :)
About pages vs stream of text... I think it's a matter of tastes, and probably also depend on the content.
For documentation & references, I too prefer not having to do with pages. Here hi-res palmtop, or an iPhone / iPod Touch can be great.
But for books / novel, I like reading a page after another. For this, an eInk reader is perfect, IMHO. It really recreate the book experience, within a more practical device. The visibility is also great outdoor, in full sunlight.
Bye!
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Any other eInk users here?-Mark0
I've had my Sony 505 for a bit over a year now, which I got via mail-order from B&H in New York. I considered the Cybook, but the Sony seemed to be better suited to what I needed (e.g. instant on), while it's disadvantages compared to the Cybook (no dictionary, no easily changeable fonts) weren't significant to me.
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Can't wait for the Plastic Logic reader due out later this year.
All about it here - http://www.plasticlogic.com/product.html
All I want is something to read PDFs, .lit, text, html etc.
I don't want sound or movies, just the ability to load my collection of ebooks.
Maybe this is IT.
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Plastic Logic is now targeting an early 2010 release:
Engadget - Plastic Logic e-reader not coming until early 2010 (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/25/plastic-logic-e-reader-not-coming-until-early-2010/)
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AAMOF, I just bought something yesterday.
It's a reconditioned Palm Treo 270 that I got for a reduced, reduced, reduced-to-clear price of $20.00CAN.
I'd love to have something better, but I think it's insane to pay more for a dedicated e-book reader than for a computer.
At home I use my laptop - perfect size for comic books and good for all other differently-sized media. It's more clunky than an e-book reader, but no more so than a hardcover.
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I highly recommend the Amazon Kindle. That is by far the best investment I have made for my wife I can think of, second to her recent college journey. It is very easy to use, the books are very reasonably priced and with a 4GB SD Card, you can store an infinite amount of books (For all intents and purposes). It has very quick delivery to the kindle via the free whispernet which uses CDMA, GSM and 1XEV networks to transfer data wirelessly and for free.
Highly recommended. I give it 5 cody drumsticks out of a possible 5
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This is an interesting discussion. I've been wondering if any e-reader has arrived at the point where I should buy one.
For Josh in particular, can the Kindle read anything, or just Amazon's proprietary formula? I would want an e-reader that can read books and documents in almost any form--for example, I want to download books from Google Books and read them on the bus, as well as buy new books from Amazon.
Also, is it so difficult to get crisp black print on a white background? Or is that even a good idea? More thoughts on display, and maybe a few screen shots of actual displays, would be welcome.
Tiesenhausen
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Mobipocket Reader is good.Tried it on Sony Z550i. Any other Ebook reader that works on Symbian/Java?
Amazon kindle is in gadget queue. Will check that soon.
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A few weeks ago I purchased "walkbook" ebook reader, second hand, from an auction site.
You can even take digital notes on it by the stylus pen in handwriting.
In all e-book readers, the e-ink technology is specifically produced to give the product a feel as if you are reading a real book.
PDA's or other devices are different and does not give the feeling like you are reading a book. I have a PDA but the e-book reader is in a very different category. In the e-ink technology, the screen has no light like the PDA's or computers and it is like a page of a book. In the dark you see nothing unless you use booklight and under the sun or room light it is like a paper, pages written on it as ink and more clear. In the PDA's you can not read under the sun.
So, one, and most apparent difference is the e-ink technology. Other products like PDA or similar computers are harder to read because of the screen technology, when compared to standard books or e-book readers. Another difference that the e-ink technology makes is the battery consumption. Once the page is displayed on the screen, it stays there forever --- no battery consumption while you read that page until you turn the page. So a battery can discharge only after tens of thousands of page turns. The technology is different, as the name implies: e-ink.
The one I use allows you to convert any document to the format recognized by the reader. You can reformat change, repaginate or do anything and convert by the conversion software that comes with the product. Screen is almost near to the size of a standard book.
I am totally satisfied with it and nowadays despite being a frugal person, I can tell that I am totally satisfied with the investment I made by purchasing this product and can strongly recommend anyone to use e-ink based readers.
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In the e-ink technology, the screen has no light like the PDA's or computers and it is like a page of a book. In the dark you see nothing unless you use booklight and under the sun or room light it is like a paper, pages written on it as ink and more clear. In the PDA's you can not read under the sun.
-gorinw13
I disagree with your assertion that PDAs can't be read in the sun. My Dell Axim x51v does just fine on the beach in Cancun.
While the normal viewing case doesn't require lighting the way a PDA does, and allows eInk devices to have phenomenal battery life, I can't understand why lighting isn't built in (but off by default). It seems just another case of trying to perfectly imitate paper, including its shortcomings.
The thing is, my single biggest use of ebooks is in bed, reading in the dark so my wife isn't disturbed. The feature you describe clearly interferes with that.
(And it reminds me yet again of my whining about the artificial imposition of page boundaries.)
Other products like PDA or similar computers are harder to read because of the screen technology, when compared to standard books or e-book readers. Another difference that the e-ink technology makes is the battery consumption.
-gorinw13
The batter life is really a compelling feature, but I don't find that eInk's image is superior to my PDA. It's certainly different, but in an apples-and-oranges way. The text on my device is incredibly clear, what with ClearType and VGA resolution. I'd venture to state that the text is smoother and clearer than some real ink, like newspapers on cheap paper.
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Now, in a bit less than a month, I'm at my 9th book read on the Cybook.
I can surely say that I'm not missing the "real paper book feeling"; reading on this thing have been/is just great!
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I just dont quite understand the price though - just bought an hp mininote 2133 computer for less than the cheapest ebook readers
I am waiting till the dpi is higher or the price lower, and then I will jump in and never look back
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I just use my WM phone with Mobipocket... I have too many books in the format to look at anything else, though since CyBook uses mobipocket format I might try it... been tempted to take the plunge more than once.
My current direction will involve another WM device most likely though. I've been looking at the HTC Fuze. For the same price as the cybook, I can get a device that has the capacity to hold more and that I can carry everywhere...
I tried the rocket ebook before when this tech was in its infancy, and the dedicated reader device just didn't work for me in the long run.
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I think it's the eInk display that make most of the difference: both in price, at the moment, and in feeling.
Best thing to do is to actually have a look & try one eInk device somewhere (shop, friends, etc.) and see if it may be worth.
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Oh i found one : Wattpad.com supports many devices. :up:
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Oh i found one : Wattpad.com supports many devices. :up:
-mahesh2k
I've been using iSilo (http://www.isilo.com/) for years, on Palm, PocketPC and Windows. It claims to support Symbian and a pile of others.
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A very nice article by John Siracusa: Ars Technica - The once and future e-book: on reading in the digital age (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/02/the-once-and-future-e-book.ars)
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A++ for the link Mark0. Just read the article and skimmed through the comments and it made me understand and make a better decision on whether to continue searching for e-book readers or not.
I especially like how I now have a third option in the Sony 505 when I originally assumed that the Kindle and the Iphone were head and above the competition already.
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http://www.betanews.com/article/Amazon_launches_a_sleeker_spookier_Kindle_2/1234194231
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I have an older PocketPC (HP Jornada 540 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Jornada#Jornada_540_series)). For me, it's primary use is for reading ebooks. I also use it for IRC chat, playing puzzle games, & very basic web surfing during hot summer months. (There is only 1 room in my home with air conditioning, and my desktop computer is not in that room.)
I have both MS Reader and Pocket Adobe Reader on it, so I can read both .lit and PDF.
I prefer .lit for a few reasons, but the primary reason is file size.
There is an issue with certain PDF files, mainly related to either the age of the file or the software that was used to create it.
Pocket Adobe Reader reformats the files for reading on hand-held devices. To do this, it relies on a tagging system (http://www.acrobatusers.com/articles/2006/02/pdf_tags) that is embedded in the original file. When you transfer the files from your desktop PC to your device, they are converted. With newer files containing real text, created in Adobe's own pdf creation software, there really aren't too many issues and it works pretty well most of the time.
The problem is really with older files that don't have these special embedded tags, and files created with certain non-Adobe pdf creation software that doesn't add them...and those files that are actually images and no real text can't be converted at all, to anything readable on my handheld device.
When you attempt to transfer a non-tagged, text based pdf file, from your desktop pc to the device (through ActiveSync), the automatic conversion utility will try to add tags to it (by guesswork) and the end result is a file twice the size as when you started (it also isn't always correctly tagged). PDF files are usually much larger than .lit to begin with, and when it's finished converting you could end up with a pdf book that takes up the same amount of space it would have if it were 25-30 copies of the same book in .lit format.
When you only have a 250mb CF card for storage, that can be a real issue to consider.
And I will agree with everyone else about handheld devices being good for reading novels, but not so good for reference books in which you would need to perform searches for info. MS Reader does allow you to create bookmarks, highlight passages, and write page notes (text & color doodles), much the same way you could in a physical book, but you would still have to do that first in order to find something again later. A dictionary in .lit is pretty much useless. As a matter of fact, a dictionary in pdf is also pretty useless on a PocketPC.
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I own a Sony 505. I basically bought to read books without the need to tote them around. This comes in handy when reading several books at around the same time. As for the prices of these reading devices they vary. The irex iLiad, is expensive at 699$. According to website you can draw and write on it and you can also read newspapers. http://www.irextechnologies.com/ ).
As for the PDF capabilities, I stopped perusing the site when I got to the price! The cheapest one I saw was the Gemstar/Rocket reading device from Ebookwise, (http://www.ebookwise.com/ebookwise/ebookwise1150.htm), which sells for 109$ sans memory card. I chose Sony because I could transfer PDFs to it. The only drawback is if you purchase ebooks via stores like Sony ebooks, Books on Boards, you cannot download them to your computer files as such. Rather, you have to download ereaders such a Adobe Digital Editions, Mobipocket, or Microsoft readers etc. However there are many sites where you can download ebooks for free. Two examples immediately come to mind, Project Guttenberg and Internet Archive. I believe that many of the copyrights have expired for these books. The only contemporary site which permits you to download the file directly to your folders is Lulu.com which is a site for self-publishers. I believe the restrictions imposed by Adobe, Sony and Microsoft readers are to prevent dissemination of the books to other who have not purchased them thereby depriving the authors of compensation. Like all technology, this particular field is constantly evolving, so many concerns in regards to visuals etc may be mute in the future, in the very least minor. I found that the Sony reader is suitable for my needs which is just reading books. I have not purchased a 'book' in several months as I can find most in ebook form via the ebook stores or the free sites which I mentioned above.
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Actually, you can download Mobipocket and eReader books as files and copy them just as you would any other- that's the way I generally download them. In fact, I download them directly to my phone, then move them to my library folder to get them to show up in the library.
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You can also read MS Reader .lit books on the desktop (http://www.microsoft.com/reader/downloads/pc.aspx), and in some cases you can have the software read it to you. This option is not in the PDA versions of the Reader software, but it is available in the desktop software. The only catch is that if the file is locked with DRM, usually text is your only option and not audio.
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Once I have downloaded ebooks purchased through Adobe Digital Editions for example, I cannot remove them and place them in my documents folder. When downloading the ebooks purchased online, several formats are offered such as Adobe, Mobi, Microsoft E reader etc. When you purchase the books, they download into these programs. Once in these e readers, I am unable to move them into any file/folders on my computer. The only ebook store where I have been able to download the file directly into a file/folder has been Lulu.com. Can you tell me in more detail how to do this? So far that is the only drawback to the reading device unless of course you are downloading from one of the free sites. Thanks!
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Take a look at Fictionwise (http://www.fictionwise.com/). Their "multiformat" ebooks can certainly be moved around as you wish, including from one machine to another. Their "secure" ebooks might have any kind of DRM, and so I won't buy those from 'em. But even so, it's a pretty good service.
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If there's truth behind the buzz then small laptops wih Pixel Qi screens might be hot contenders for the ebook reader throne come this summer:
http://www.liliputing.com/2009/02/pixel-qi-to-sample-first-low-power-daylight-readable-screens-this-spring.html
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I don't know a thing about the process of downloading purchased books and where the files go by default, and all the particulars, as I only read free books. And I know nothing about Adobe Digital Editions.
The books I get are either .txt files that I convert to .lit myself, or they are already in .lit format, converted from .txt by someone else. Almost all are public domain works. the rest are various free normal pdf files acquired from various sources.
If you can't find your book files for MS Reader, just do a search of your system for *.lit. That should find them all for you. Then just move them where you want them. If you do not see them in your library the next time you run Reader or if they won't work when selecting through the software, then just find & click the .lit file in Explorer to open it that way and it should stick it in your software's library. (works for me)
And even those with DRM should be able to be moved around. The restrictions is on what PC can open them...not where on a pc they are located. Any device or pc that has a copy of MS Reader registered to the original purchaser of the book should be able to open the book. (you can copy the books from your desktop to your PDA, and read them, provided the copy of MS Reader on both the desktop and PDA are registered to the same person, and that person is the purchaser of the DRM protected book file.)