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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: gexecuter on January 09, 2009, 03:38 PM

Title: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on January 09, 2009, 03:38 PM
So recently my sisters got a notebook as a christmas gift and we decided it was better if we had WIFI in our house so that they could connect to the internet using the notebook. Anyway my ISP installed a zyxel router and ever since then i have been having some problems. sometimes i can't surf at all because i get redirected to 192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html and i see the following message :

"object not found

The requested URL '/zCfgTryAgain.html' was not found on the RomPager Advanced server."

Turning the router on and off seems to fix it tough but it's very annoying. Another thing is that i am worried that someone might leech off my bandwidth even tough it's password protected and i have been thinking how to prevent that, any software i can use to detect thiefs?. Also I know that the 192.168.1.1 address is for router configuration but it's password protected so i can't access it, do i even need to access the router configuration?.

Anyway help would be apreciated since you guys seem pretty knowledable.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 09, 2009, 03:48 PM
So recently my sisters got a notebook as a christmas gift and we decided it was better if we had WIFI in our house so that they could connect to the internet using the notebook. Anyway my ISP installed a zyxel router and ever since then i have been having some problems. sometimes i can't surf at all because i get redirected to 192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html and i see the following message :

"object not found

The requested URL '/zCfgTryAgain.html' was not found on the RomPager Advanced server."

Turning the router on and off seems to fix it tough but it's very annoying. Another thing is that i am worried that someone might leech off my bandwidth even tough it's password protected and i have been thinking how to prevent that, any software i can use to detect thiefs?. Also I know that the 192.168.1.1 address is for router configuration but it's password protected so i can't access it, do i even need to access the router configuration?.

Anyway help would be apreciated since you guys seem pretty knowledable.

I've been running a Zyxel Prestige 660HW-61 for more than 2 years and it's been very reliable apart from 2 or 3 small problems.

The only protection I use for the WiFi is 128bit WEP, MAC filtering and no SSID broadcast

IIRC, the default password for Zyxels is: 1234

I can probably help you with the configuration of it, what model are you running ?
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Ehtyar on January 09, 2009, 04:12 PM
The past few years I've had two NetGear products. The first was a WGR614 which was fine, but its range was too limited for my sister to use wireless in her bedroom, so now we have a WPN824v2. Anyway, now that you know my life story :P both products have been extremely stable (the dlink we had prior to the WGR crashed weekly) and I would most definately purchase a netgear product again.

Netgear are generally considered to be at the economical end of the higher quality routers. If you wanted something really powerful, you probably go for a Linksys or a CISCO, but you'll pay a lot more for those.

Experience with routers varies significantly. You'll find it difficult to pinpoint a brand that has good reviews across the board. If you're going to purchase a new unit I would suggest choosing something that it's brand new to the market and that has solid reviews.

Ehtyar.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on January 09, 2009, 04:29 PM
So recently my sisters got a notebook as a christmas gift and we decided it was better if we had WIFI in our house so that they could connect to the internet using the notebook. Anyway my ISP installed a zyxel router and ever since then i have been having some problems. sometimes i can't surf at all because i get redirected to 192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html and i see the following message :

"object not found

The requested URL '/zCfgTryAgain.html' was not found on the RomPager Advanced server."

Turning the router on and off seems to fix it tough but it's very annoying. Another thing is that i am worried that someone might leech off my bandwidth even tough it's password protected and i have been thinking how to prevent that, any software i can use to detect thiefs?. Also I know that the 192.168.1.1 address is for router configuration but it's password protected so i can't access it, do i even need to access the router configuration?.

Anyway help would be apreciated since you guys seem pretty knowledable.

I've been running a Zyxel Prestige 660HW-61 for more than 2 years and it's been very reliable apart from 2 or 3 small problems.

The only protection I use for the WiFi is 128bit WEP, MAC filtering and no SSID broadcast

IIRC, the default password for Zyxels is: 1234

I can probably help you with the configuration of it, what model are you running ?


The model that i have looking at the bottom of the router is Zyxel P-660HW-T1 V2. The password that you provided didn't work, maybe my ISP changed it? if i reset the router i should be able to configure it because the password would be cleared right?
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 09, 2009, 04:37 PM
While I am running MAC filtering on my DLink WB-1310 router, it is a waste of time, according to the pundits. If your hardware supports it, you should be running WPA-2 encryption. Can't help you with network access monitoring software, but there is probably some rudimentary functionality for this built into the router browser interface. On D-Link, the default password is nothing - ie, you leave the field blank. Try this, along with 40wd's 1234 suggestion and see how you get on.

Depending on where you live, unauthorized access to your network is not a huge risk. Of course, if you live in an apartment building or in a very urban area it is a HUGE risk... if you live, as I do, in a fairly quiet area with good sized lots, the risk is small.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 09, 2009, 04:47 PM
Experience with routers varies significantly. You'll find it difficult to pinpoint a brand that has good reviews across the board. If you're going to purchase a new unit I would suggest choosing something that it's brand new to the market and that has solid reviews.

Actually, I would have said something that's been on the market for a while and has solid reviews.

No use buying something that's 'brand new to the market' and then 8 months later everyone suddenly finds that the mCPU in it blows up due to the date matching and IP address ;)

The model that i have looking at the bottom of the router is Zyxel P-660HW-T1 V2. The password that you provided didn't work, maybe my ISP changed it? if i reset the router i should be able to configure it because the password would be cleared right?

Resetting will clear all settings including the login/password for your connection if there is one, so you'll lose your internet.  Ideally, you want to get in before you have to resort to resetting - I don't suppose your ISP would give you the password ?

Or, it may be something simple like your phone number or the ISP uses a default password for all their routers, doing a Google for your ISP name router "default password" might bring up something.
Also try things as simple as 'admin' or 'root'.

BTW gexecuter, if you manage to get into the config of your router BEFORE you do anything, go through every single config screen and use a screen capture program to note the settings.  Also, find out what your login/password for the connection is from your ISP is before you change anything.

While I am running MAC filtering on my DLink WB-1310 router, it is a waste of time, according to the pundits. If your hardware supports it, you should be running WPA-2 encryption.

Yes well, one of the 2 or 3 things that used to cause problems on the Zyxel was spontaneous reboot when using WPA - ergo, don't use it.  Don't know whether it's been fixed with a firmware update or the implementation is slightly different on the T1.

WPA-2 has been cracked anyway, so it's not much better than WEP.

128bit WEP, MAC filtering, non-broadcast SSID, static IPs and the SPI firewall are a lot simpler and just as good - the idea is to keep Joe Public out, you've got no hope against someone who's determined to get in.

gexecuter, there are two other things that affected the 660HW-61 that you can try before having to get into the config:
1) It's susceptible to power blips, it'll go into TTM1.  Try and put it on an UPS if you're in an area with supply fluctuations.
2) It's susceptible to heat.  Under the middle base it gets warm and then just stops communicating.  Either support it at both sides on something, (I use 2 matchboxes - hi-tech, huh), or mount vertically to let air flow and cool it.

1 - Thumb Twiddling Mode
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Ehtyar on January 09, 2009, 04:51 PM
Manufacturers should not be permitted to advertise MAC address filtering as a security feature. Put your wireless NIC on ad-hoc mode and you'll see the MAC addresses of all nearby wireless interfaces. It is then a trivial operation to fake (or spoof) the MAC address of one of the interfaces permitted to access the network.

Resetting the router (via a reset switch or button) should clear the password.
Experience with routers varies significantly. You'll find it difficult to pinpoint a brand that has good reviews across the board. If you're going to purchase a new unit I would suggest choosing something that it's brand new to the market and that has solid reviews.

Actually, I would have said something that's been on the market for a while and has solid reviews.

No use buying something that's 'brand new to the market' and then 8 months later everyone suddenly finds that the mCPU in it blows up due to the date matching and IP address ;)
That was indeed what i meant to say. My bad, ty 4wd.

Ehtyar.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 09, 2009, 05:00 PM
128bit WEP, MAC filtering, non-broadcast SSID, static IPs and the SPI firewall are a lot simpler and just as good - the idea is to keep Joe Public out, you've got no hope against someone who's determined to get in.

Very true - and pretty much what I was getting at WRT more rural locations being less risky than urban ones... WRT WEP vs WPA-2, you're quite right as well, my point was more that if you might as well use the highest level of encryption supported by your hardware. My understanding is that WEP is pretty much useless at keeping someone out, WPA can be cracked in minutes, and WPA-2 is secure. For now.

FWIW, I use static IPs, MAC filtering, and WPA-2. I don't hide my SSID, though I keep meaning to do it. DO note, however, that the pundits do not consider this worth the time or the effort, either.

I'm with 4wd on this, though - you really want to keep Joe Q. Public from stealing bandwidth, because a determined hacker will get in now matter what you do. To that end (keeping the 12 year old in the apartment above you out of your network), any/all of these "tricks" should be applied.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 09, 2009, 05:44 PM
My understanding is that WEP is pretty much useless at keeping someone out, WPA can be cracked in minutes, and WPA-2 is secure. For now.

OK, so maybe 'cracked' was a bit premature on my part but the end is nigh  ;)

FWIW:
Pyrit (http://code.google.com/p/pyrit/) takes a step ahead in attacking WPA-PSK and WPA2-PSK, the protocol that today de-facto protects public WIFI-airspace.

I'm with 4wd on this, though - you really want to keep Joe Q. Public from stealing bandwidth...

As long as I can keep Joe Public out of my data I don't mind if he grabs a little internet action over my WiFi if that's what turns him on.
Mind you, he'd have to compete with my usenet downloader which runs max bandwidth 24/7/365(6) - the most effective bandwidth stealing deterrent is when there's no bandwidth left to steal  :D

Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 09, 2009, 07:16 PM
s long as I can keep Joe Public out of my data I don't mind if he grabs a little internet action over my WiFi if that's what turns him on.

 ;D Point taken! Only compelling reason to keep someone from stealing your bandwidth is that in some US states what someone does with YOUR bandwidth is your responsibility ie the onus is on you to secure your network. Failure to do so leaves you vulnerable to prosecution for any criminal activities that are conducted using your bandwidth... I am not sure what the regs are WRT this in Canada, but I have this niggling feeling that they are the same. My big "thing" with security is my data, though - someone who can get on my network is in a position to start stealing my info. Identity theft, anyone?  :o

Quite right about the end being nigh with WPA-2. I don't actually know why I bothered to upgrade my hardware to support it (I did, about four months ago) given that it's "cracking" is likely imminent!
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 09, 2009, 11:33 PM
I don't hide my SSID, though I keep meaning to do it. DO note, however, that the pundits do not consider this worth the time or the effort, either.

Interesting people these "pundits".

Hiding the SSID is usually nothing more than ticking a checkbox in your routers' config - so it can't hurt to do something that simple.
If anything, it will stop someone just turning on their laptop and clicking on 'DarwinNet' to connect :)

If given a choice between loading up software to do a scan for WiFi or clicking on 'EhtyarNet', (because 'DarwinNet' is invisible), to connect....what would you do ?  >:D

Zyxel routers are good for other things too...........like wardriving :)

Here's a couple of interesting papers on the Zyxel P660HW-T1:
Hacking Zyxel Gateways (http://packetstormsecurity.org/papers/attack/Hacking_ZyXEL_Gateways.pdf)
ZyXEL Gateways Vulnerability Research (Part 2) (http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/zyxel-gateways-vulnerability-research-part-2/Hacking_ZyXEL_Gateways_part_2.pdf)

Only compelling reason to keep someone from stealing your bandwidth is that in some US states what someone does with YOUR bandwidth is your responsibility ie the onus is on you to secure your network.

I'd agree with that if WiFi routers were sold with secure settings in place from the beginning and it was your fault that you disabled them....but they're not.

Do they really expect Mr/Mrs Joe Public, (who only wants the convenience of being able to browse a website from their laptop while floating on an inflatable horse in the middle of their pool), to go into the config of a router and configure it for secure WiFi when a lot of people have enough trouble just getting the damn printer to work ?

But then if the router was sold with WiFi secured you'd have a lot of calls to tech-support, store returns, etc, etc because they just want to take it home, plug it in, turn it on and click the button that says 'Connect'.........only it wouldn't.

What they need, (and Zyxel implemented this in their WiFi adapters - OTIST, One-Touch Intelligent Security Technology), is a way to secure the WiFi by doing the same as they do for wireless keyboards and mice, (I'm talking w.r.t. home based WiFi not public area WiFi).

eg. Plug in the main WiFi station/router and then push a button, (hardware or software), and then for each client push a button in their hardware/software within a fixed time period, (say 30 seconds), of the initial router initiation.  Then through a unique device ID each device becomes known to that router and so has access, other WiFi clients are ignored or can be given ad-hoc access on a time limited temporary basis.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: f0dder on January 09, 2009, 11:41 PM
I'm not sure hiding the SSID is a good idea - it might make your network more interesting to hackers? "Ah, here's somebody who knows how to turn that off, they must have something interesting to hide". Especially if combined with weak protection like WEP or WPA-1. Same goes for MAC filtering.

Btw, what's the timeframe for cracking WPA-2? I thought that even with the latest GPU stuff, we were talking at least months with a decent passphrase?
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 10, 2009, 12:11 AM
I'm not sure hiding the SSID is a good idea - it might make your network more interesting to hackers? "Ah, here's somebody who knows how to turn that off, they must have something interesting to hide". Especially if combined with weak protection like WEP or WPA-1. Same goes for MAC filtering.

Interesting to hackers, maybe...but mainly to keep Joe Public from arbitrarily logging on and knocking off a bit of your bandwidth.

Btw, what's the timeframe for cracking WPA-2? I thought that even with the latest GPU stuff, we were talking at least months with a decent passphrase?

The problem is very few people use decent passphrases and I doubt whether the majority of people who are knowledgeable enough to turn on any form of WiFi security protocol bother to use decent passphrases.

And once set, how many people actually bother to change it occasionally ?

So if a hacker wants to get in he probably has a very large time frame within which he can try and achieve it.

Here (http://pyrit.wordpress.com/the-twilight-of-wi-fi-protected-access/) the Pyrit guys talk a bit more about it, giving an example time frame based on a 2006 NIST whitepaper.

All-in-all, I think the following is the best solution for people who want to steal your bandwidth - it'll probably annoy them enough to go elsewhere.
My neighbours are stealing my wireless internet access. (http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html)
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 10, 2009, 01:54 AM
The issue with SSID (where the pundits are concerned) is that it is perceived to be a waste of time - anyone who wants onto your network is going to get onto your network, hidden SSID or not. I think the caveat they are trying to make is that one shouldn't get a false sense of security as a result of enacting these measures.

I take the general attitude that these measures may well be a waste of time, but it doesn't cost me anything to put them in place! I haven't enabled a hidden SSID because I haven't had time to explore the ramifications of doing so for hardware connected to my network.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Paul Keith on January 10, 2009, 06:57 AM
Thanks for making this thread. I am having this dilemma too.

I'm still paranoid about it. Still haven't touched the damn router because of this. The whole "it's not worth it" security vs. "extra layers for the better" security sides further makes the issue confusing.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: cranioscopical on January 10, 2009, 08:54 AM
Off topic a bit here (surprise!)

Please put aside your initial reactions of "Good heavens, are you mad/what about...?/haven't you considered...?"

I have just set up a machine that is to be used for a limited set of business purposes only.
It has no need to be connect to another machine in any way.
It just sits there, isolated, doing its job.
None of its capacity is wasted on trying to protect itself.
What a relief it is to deal with something so simple.

Those Luddites had something!
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 10, 2009, 10:11 AM
Chris - is it connected to the internet...? I take it that the answer is "no".
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: Darwin on January 10, 2009, 10:22 AM
@Paul - my position is this: educate yourself about the effectiveness of each of these security options and implement the top security "cocktail" that you are able to within the limitations of your hardware. The key is to be aware of the risks. I think the "pundits" I keep referring to are attempting to debunk myths about wireless security because to the uneducated the perception is that there is either no need for any of these measures (or people are completely unaware of the need for them) or that some of the older measures are sufficient and they then never give the security of their home network another thought. I have a friend who simply enabled MAC filtering and left it at that. He's not had any trouble, but then he lives on a rural road with about 25 metres separating him from his neighbours on either side and about 50 separating him from the road and easily 150 from his neighbour to the rear. The likelihood of anyone making the effort to sit outside his road to try to hack into his network, and to do so unnoticed, is pretty slim! If he did that on the second floor of an apartment building in Vancouver, New York, Seoul, or Beijing he'd be asking for very serioius trouble indeed!
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: f0dder on January 10, 2009, 10:46 AM
I'm not blocking my SSID (because it makes things easier when friends with laptops come by - and they kinda often do). It's a non-standard SSID btw, so I'm not going to be hurt by precomputed attacks against "LINKSYS", "NetGear" etc SSIDs. The same goes for MAC filtering... both are pretty useless anyway. I run WPA2-PSK encryption... I don't expect that I'll be targeted by somebody who's committed enough to launch a distributed GPU cracking attempt :)
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: cranioscopical on January 10, 2009, 10:47 AM
Chris - is it connected to the internet...? I take it that the answer is "no".

[gof]
No, it simply exists in it's own little world.
More and more I realize that the internet now is both the biggest convenience and the biggest curse on the planet.

This thread is another painful reminder of the prodigious amounts of money and time wasted on trying to make our machines safe.
[/gof]
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on January 10, 2009, 04:50 PM

gexecuter, there are two other things that affected the 660HW-61 that you can try before having to get into the config:
1) It's susceptible to power blips, it'll go into TTM1.  Try and put it on an UPS if you're in an area with supply fluctuations.
2) It's susceptible to heat.  Under the middle base it gets warm and then just stops communicating.  Either support it at both sides on something, (I use 2 matchboxes - hi-tech, huh), or mount vertically to let air flow and cool it.

-4wd

Funny that you mention power blips since in my house the power goes out very frequently. Something about the electrical sockets. I wish i could afford an UPS but i can't. About the heat stuff, i think i could come with something. even tough i can't think of something right now. btw any of those two issues can affect my speeds?

anyway reading the thread i have learned some useful info. I can't really stop a determined hacker from getting into my network, however i can stop everyday joe's. thankfully i don't live in a very urban place, just a small villa (that's is the word for a bunch of houses in location right?) so hopefully i should ok.


PS: i don't think my ISP would give me router's password because when the tech came to my home he said i couldn't change the Wifi network password or something like that.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 10, 2009, 05:58 PM

gexecuter, there are two other things that affected the 660HW-61 that you can try before having to get into the config:
1) It's susceptible to power blips, it'll go into TTM1.  Try and put it on an UPS if you're in an area with supply fluctuations.
2) It's susceptible to heat.  Under the middle base it gets warm and then just stops communicating.  Either support it at both sides on something, (I use 2 matchboxes - hi-tech, huh), or mount vertically to let air flow and cool it.

-4wd

Funny that you mention power blips since in my house the power goes out very frequently. Something about the electrical sockets. I wish i could afford an UPS but i can't.

I also have semi-frequent power blips/brownouts, (of course they only happen when I'm not here), as I mentioned above somewhere I also have a PC that's on 24/7 downloading from usenet.  So when the power blips, the router could go down and the PC stops downloading until I can get to it to power cycle the router.

I also don't have an UPS, (one of those things I haven't got around to), but I have minimised the effect of power blips when I'm away, (as I will be in about 18 hours for 7 weeks), by doing the following:
1) the router is plugged into a time switch that's set to power off at around 0100 and then power on 15 minutes later - this will get it out of TTM.
2) the PC is set in BIOS to power on at AC restore and power on at a fixed time every day.

This combination has allowed it to weather 3-4 months of me being overseas without a problem.

Although, if the problem is in your electrical house wiring then you have bigger problems.  I have a rental property that kept blowing the controller in the central heating, we thought it was the grid supply fluctuating and had a surge protector fitted to the supply/meter board.  It happened again, except power was lost to half the house.

It turned out to be one power outlet in the family room where the wires hadn't been properly secured/screwed in from new, (it was only built 8 years ago).  Vibration caused intermittent connection, which caused intermittent surges through that circuit, (which just happened to have the central heating controller on it), and bang.......there goes the controller.

We got off light, it could just as easily have started a fire.

About the heat stuff, i think i could come with something. even tough i can't think of something right now.

Come on, four matchboxes, one at each corner - you only need to raise it about 12-20mm :)

btw any of those two issues can affect my speeds?

Not that I'm aware of, both my mate and I run the P-660H(W)-61 and these are the only real problems we've found with them.  I even bought one for my parents i.l.o. these minor faults because it's features far outweigh them for the price.

However, without knowing how your ISP has set up the config it can't be ruled out that something in there is affecting it, eg. they've turned on Media Bandwidth Management with the wrong settings.

PS: i don't think my ISP would give me router's password because when the tech came to my home he said i couldn't change the Wifi network password or something like that.

Can I ask who your ISP is, (also, have you tried your ISP's name as the password) ?

This is why I really hate having to use 'their' equipment, (which I'm not, but I had a choice), however if you know the username/password and basic settings for the ADSL then you can do a factory reset by, (IIRC), pushing in the button on the back while powering on the router, hold the reset button for 10 seconds then release.  The router should go through it's diagnostics and start up with no internet connection, you should be able to enter the config then using '1234'.

Then enter Wizard Setup, you'll need the following info:

Mode:               Routing
Encapsulation:    PPPoE    (usually)
Multiplex:           LLC
Virtual Circuit ID:
                 VPI: 8
                 VCI: 35

The bottom 3 values, (Multiplex, VCI, VPI), you need to get from your provider - the ones I've given are a general default.

On the next page:

Service Name: Telefonica  (just guessing :) )
User Name:
Password:
Obtain an IP automatically
Connect on Demand  Max timeout 7200
NAT:              SUA

You need the 'User Name' and 'Password' from your ISP, the other options can be changed once a connection is established.  Once you click Next it should connect, (IIRC).

As I mentioned above, I'm off for 7 weeks shortly so any questions later than about 1800 AEDST today will incur a delayed response :)
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on January 10, 2009, 07:24 PM
More and more I realize that the internet now is both the biggest convenience and the biggest curse on the planet.

This thread is another painful reminder of the prodigious amounts of money and time wasted on trying to make our machines safe.
[/gof]
-cranioscopical (January 10, 2009, 10:47 AM)

Watch out Ehtyar!

He's gunning for 'El Presidente de la lámina de estaño sombrero brigada'1, just like kartal.

1 - Blame Google Translate if I screwed up.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 40hz on January 10, 2009, 08:39 PM
I have just set up a machine that is to be used for a limited set of business purposes only.
It has no need to be connect to another machine in any way.
It just sits there, isolated, doing its job.
None of its capacity is wasted on trying to protect itself.
What a relief it is to deal with something so simple.
-cranioscopical (January 10, 2009, 08:54 AM)

I am so happy to hear somebody else is doing that.

About three years ago I put all my business's financial, planning and related apps on a separate machine named LucaPacioli, and I never looked back. It doesn't connect to anything other than a printer via a parallel cable.

All it does is "mind the store" for me. Like your machine, it just sits in its own little universe - keeping track of billable time and materials, generating invoices, doing accounting, assisting  with business and marketing plans, etc.

There is absolutely no security software on this machine other than TrueCrypt. And nothing on it ever gets updated unless absolutely necessary.

And it runs like a champ.

Quite a relief indeed. :Thmbsup:

Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on January 12, 2009, 08:23 PM
I hope you are having fun in your vacation 4WD!

I dunno what electrical problem in my house is actually, all i know is something when we start some devices (like microwaves, electrical water heaters,etc.) the power goes out. It reallly hasn't caused much trouble since no stuff has been burned so it's just very annoying.

I did what you told me and put 4 matchboxes below the router, low tech but it works.

My ISP is indeed telefonica chile, i did try their name as the password with no luck. I dunno what username and password are you talking about. The only password that the tech guy gave was for connecting to the wifi in the notebook. If you mean the user/password that i had to use before i had the router then yes i do have that.

I don't plan resetting the router anytime soon but one thing is tempting me, the Media Bandwidth Management is for splitting the bandwith right? i could use that to give my PC and the notebook a 50/50 % of bandwith each right? that could be really useful.

Anyway 4WD i hope that when you read this you will have had an awesome vacation. I could have wrote this when you had came back but i would probably forgotten it by then.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on March 11, 2009, 05:56 AM
I hope you are having fun in your vacation 4WD!

All over now bar the paying of bills but it was very fun!

I dunno what electrical problem in my house is actually, all i know is something when we start some devices (like microwaves, electrical water heaters,etc.) the power goes out. It reallly hasn't caused much trouble since no stuff has been burned so it's just very annoying.

Sounds like too many items on the one electrical circuit or a dodgy electrical connection, either a socket or join.

I did what you told me and put 4 matchboxes below the router, low tech but it works.

Another idea would have been to mount it vertically to a wall using the screw holes on the back.  But I've found the low-tech method works just as well.

My ISP is indeed telefonica chile, i did try their name as the password with no luck. I dunno what username and password are you talking about.

Your ADSL connection requires a username/password to work correctly, for instance, without it you might not have access to your ISP's DNS servers which will make accessing any web sites quite hard, (as I just found out due to the screw up with my landline and change of ISP).

The only password that the tech guy gave was for connecting to the wifi in the notebook. If you mean the user/password that i had to use before i had the router then yes i do have that.

If you look at the pic, the two items marked with an asterisk are what's required, these are normally different from any dialup username/password you received.

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I don't plan resetting the router anytime soon but one thing is tempting me, the Media Bandwidth Management is for splitting the bandwith right? i could use that to give my PC and the notebook a 50/50 % of bandwith each right? that could be really useful.

It's more for prioritising bandwidth, for example, I have a PC that does nothing but download from newsgroups 24/7/365.
It uses max bandwidth all the time, however, in Media Bandwidth Management I have set that PCs IP so that its Bandwidth Budget is 100kbps and it has a low Priority of 1, which basically means any other traffic has a higher priority and the bandwidth of that IP will be reduced to 100kbps in the event of another PC browsing the web, fetching mail, ftp xfer, etc, etc.
It's also set to borrow bandwidth from the Parent Class, (LAN 100Mbps), so if there is no other traffic it can hit the max bandwidth of 256kbps, (I only have 256/64 ADSL).

The pic below is of the settings for the Child Class NNTP under the Root Class of the LAN Media Bandwidth Management.

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I just don't understand why your ISP is so anal about letting you have the information you need to be able to set up the modem/router for your circumstances.  Being able to access the routers will also tell you if any other bandwidth leeching PCs are connected - although you could try using NetScan (http://www.softperfect.com/products/networkscanner/) to detect any strange PCs if you think there's one connected.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on March 11, 2009, 10:10 AM
Thank you so much for replying 4WD and good timing too since i have a certain internet problem that hopefully you (and other people too) could help me with, i finally found the router's password which i hope would let me fix this annoying problem. I am just going to repost what i already had written awhile ago, take a look:


Recently i have been having a lot of problems with my internet and my ISP is basically useless since every method that they have suggested has failed. Basically sometimes when i go to a webpage i get redirected to "http://192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html" and get the Following message:

Object Not Found

The requested URL '/zCfgTryAgain.html' was not found on the RomPager Advanced server.


if i try any other site is the same thing and i also can't download anything so for all intents and purposes i have no internet. This used to happen before but for only minutes however recently it has lasted for hours even i reboot the PC and the router. After doing a google search the only thing i could learn is that the "http://192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html" is shown when the DSL line is not up which doesn't me help at all. My router is a Zyxel P-660HW-T1 v2 and i have the password for it so i was wondering if any of you could help me in figuring out the problem. I have also attached a screenshot showing all of you what i see when my internet is down.


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Edit: oh yeah i also remembered that a very long time ago my isp changed my modem into an USB one because i couldn't connect to the internet with the regular modem, i think it was a problem with my ethernet port on my PC that screwed things because i never had a problem with the USB modem so i am wondering if this time it could be the same thing since the router uses the same ethernet port.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on March 11, 2009, 03:20 PM
Thank you so much for replying 4WD and good timing too since i have a certain internet problem that hopefully you (and other people too) could help me with, i finally found the router's password which i hope would let me fix this annoying problem. I am just going to repost what i already had written awhile ago, take a look:

Recently i have been having a lot of problems with my internet and my ISP is basically useless since every method that they have suggested has failed. Basically sometimes when i go to a webpage i get redirected to "http://192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html" and get the Following message:

Object Not Found

The requested URL '/zCfgTryAgain.html' was not found on the RomPager Advanced server.


if i try any other site is the same thing and i also can't download anything so for all intents and purposes i have no internet. This used to happen before but for only minutes however recently it has lasted for hours even i reboot the PC and the router. After doing a google search the only thing i could learn is that the "http://192.168.1.1/zCfgTryAgain.html" is shown when the DSL line is not up which doesn't me help at all. My router is a Zyxel P-660HW-T1 v2 and i have the password for it so i was wondering if any of you could help me in figuring out the problem. I have also attached a screenshot showing all of you what i see when my internet is down.

When it happens access the router's interface and go to Maintenance->System Status, under the WAN Information you'll have your IP, netmask and VPI/VCI settings - if you haven't, the router hasn't connected to the ISPs equipment.

You can also go into Maintenance->Diagnostic and do an ATM Loopback test, it'll say it was successful if there's a connection.  The ATM Status should also show something besides all 0's, eg. your rxRate and txRate will be higher than 0.
Also check the Upstream/Downstream Noise Margins - if they're too high then either you're too far from the phone exchange or your phone line is noisy due to crappy joints, (trust me - I was a telecommunications tech for 19 years, even though you may not be able hear any noise on a normal phone call it doesn't mean it isn't there, it could just be affecting the frequencies that ADSL needs).

I live pretty close to what was the 7km limit of ADSL and I know I'm on copper cable all the way.
My figures are as follows:

Upstream Noise Margin
noise margin upstream: 31 db
output power downstream: 12 db
attenuation upstream: 17 db
tone   0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 22 22 23 32 23 23 22 20 20 00
tone  32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Downstream Noise Margin
noise margin downstream: 13 db
output power upstream: -1 db
attenuation downstream: 36 db
tone   0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  32- 63: 45 56 66 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 54 55 44 44 44 44
tone  64- 95: 04 44 44 44 44 44 44 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 23 33
tone  96-127: 33 32 32 22 33 22 22 33 32 22 22 22 22 22 22 33
tone 128-159: 32 32 22 22 23 33 33 22 02 32 22 22 33 33 33 33
tone 160-191: 22 32 32 22 22 22 22 20 00 00 00 00 02 22 22 22
tone 192-223: 22 22 20 00 22 20 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Edit: oh yeah i also remembered that a very long time ago my isp changed my modem into an USB one because i couldn't connect to the internet with the regular modem, i think it was a problem with my ethernet port on my PC that screwed things because i never had a problem with the USB modem so i am wondering if this time it could be the same thing since the router uses the same ethernet port.

That page comes from the router, if you're getting it then your ethernet connection to the router is working fine.  But you can test it easily by plugging in your sister's laptop to an ethernet port on the router, if you get the same thing then it's not your PCs ethernet port.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one thing that's helpful is the little light on the front right of the router that tells you the status of the ADSL line.
Flashing Amber - Normal, data being tx'd or rx'd
Solid Green      - No ADSL connection.
Amber but occasionally flashes Green - No ADSL connection.
Green but occasionally flashes Amber - No ADSL connection, attempting renegotiation of connection.

Basically, when you're having your problem watch the ADSL status light for a couple of minutes.  If it flashes green occasionally or is solid green then your ADSL connection has failed due to something, (possibly just a crappy plug/socket connection on the line lead).

Also, while I think of it, how is your router connected to the phone line ?
ie.
a) Is it plugged directly into a socket with all your phones having individual filters, or
b) Is it plugged into an ADSL filter/splitter and there are no individual filters on your phones.

If you don't mind, you could go through your router's interface pages one by one using a screen capture program and then send the pages to me at [email protected] (one of a few disposable GMail accounts I have).  I promise I won't use the information for evil purposes1.

BTW, to discover the password for your ADSL connection you can do the following:

Using Firefox:
1) Install GreaseMonkey (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748) add-on.
2) Go to http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/16033  (Visible Password)
3) Click the Install button
4) Right-click on the monkey in Firefox's status bar and make sure Visible Password is enabled - it will have a tick next to it.
5) Access the router interface and go to Advanced Setup->WAN->WAN Setup where the password will be revealed.
6) Take note of it and the Username, these are required if you end up resetting the router to factory defaults.
7) Disable Visible Password in GreaseMonkey.

1. Yeah, right  >:D
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on March 11, 2009, 08:42 PM
So just now the internet came back however it's not like before, some pages won't fully load and some won't load at all until i make a manual reload. Anyway i went to Maintenance->System Status and i got the IP, netmask and VPI/VCI info, there was also a default gateway that read N/A. I dunno if that's important. The ATM Loopback test has failed every time that i have tried it. I also did the Upstream/Downstream Noise Margins test and here what i got:

Upstream Noise Margin
noise margin upstream: 25 db
output power downstream: 14 db
attenuation upstream: 31 db
tone   0- 31: 00 00 00 02 44 56 66 66 66 66 66 55 55 44 20 00
tone  32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


Downstream Noise Margin

noise margin downstream: 33 db
output power upstream: 12 db
attenuation downstream: 56 db
tone   0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone  64- 95: 00 00 02 23 33 44 44 55 55 65 66 66 56 55 54 55
tone  96-127: 55 55 55 55 44 45 43 33 32 22 20 02 33 33 33 30
tone 128-159: 02 00 02 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I think my ISP is in Santiago , Chile which according to google maps is at a distance of 120 KM. I have no idea if these results are good or bad tough, probably bad considering my bad connection.

My Router lights have always been green, i don't think i have ever seen them being amber. They flash tough. Oh sometimes the DSL and the internet lights would be off.

The router is connected to a little box on the wall in my room, the box has a wire that goes to another other room where the only phone of the house is located. The box (i dunno how to call it) has a slot where you can put another phone line and that's pretty much what i can tell you about the box.

Sure tomorrow i'll send you screenshots of the router's configuration pages, hopefully you were joking about that stuff.

I already have the password of the ADSL connection, the support guy of my ISP was kind enough to tell me about it.


And thanks for helping me out 4WD.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on March 12, 2009, 04:18 AM
So just now the internet came back however it's not like before, some pages won't fully load and some won't load at all until i make a manual reload. Anyway i went to Maintenance->System Status and i got the IP, netmask and VPI/VCI info, there was also a default gateway that read N/A. I dunno if that's important.

Default Gateway is just an arbitrary name entered to identify the ISP, it could be anything or blank, (N/A).

The ATM Loopback test has failed every time that i have tried it. I also did the Upstream/Downstream Noise Margins test and here what i got:

Upstream Noise Margin
noise margin upstream: 25 db
output power downstream: 14 db
attenuation upstream: 31 db

The figures for 'noise margin' and 'output power' are OK but the 'attenuation upstream' is a little high but still acceptable.


Downstream Noise Margin

noise margin downstream: 33 db
output power upstream: 12 db
attenuation downstream: 56 db

The 'noise margin' and 'output power' are fine however the 'attenuation downstream' is, to put it bluntly, crap.  A figure of 56db means you're receiving just under 1/500,000 of the signal strength as sent from the ADSL equipment in the exchange.

From the Whirlpool (http://www.whirlpool.net.au) forums:
Noise Margin (AKA Signal to Noise Margin or Signal to Noise Ratio)
Relative strength of the DSL signal to Noise ratio. The higher the number the better for this measurement. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level.

6dB or below is bad and will experience no synch or intermittent synch problems
7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions
11dB-20dB is good with little or no synch problems* (but see note below)
20dB-28dB is excellent
29dB or above is outstanding

* Note that there may be short term bursts of noise that may drop the margin, but due to the sampling time of the management utility in your modem, will not show up in the figures.

Line Attenuation
Measure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. This is largely a function of the distance from the exchange. The lower the dB the better for this measurement.

20dB and below is outstanding
20dB-30dB is excellent
30dB-40dB is very good
40dB-50dB is good
50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues
60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues

I think my ISP is in Santiago , Chile which according to google maps is at a distance of 120 KM. I have no idea if these results are good or bad tough, probably bad considering my bad connection.

That's their head office - where they hide, charge you money and provide little support.

If your internet connection was provided from Santiago you wouldn't have any internet at all - the maximum effective distance at which ADSL1 can be used reliably is about 7-8km.  ADSL2(+) can extend that a little but not much.

Your ADSL connection is provided over your phone line from the local telephone exchange to your house - somewhere in your town there will be a rather drab building, (or possibly in the back of the post office if the building is big enough), marked Telephone Exchange.  Someone around town should be able to tell you where it is, (Police, Fire Depart., etc).  When you find it, measure the shortest distance between it and your house on your bike or in your car, (the actual distance the copper cable runs will be longer).  Or just ask the company who provides your phone service how long the cable run between your house and the exchange is - you might get someone helpful who'll tell you.

Depending on how far away it is will help determine where the problem might lie, (eg. if it's <3km then the fault is possibly crappy wire joins or faulty equipment).

You could try unplugging the phone line from the back of the router 3 or 4 times to clean it's connection, the same where the line from the router plugs into the box on the wall.  Plug/socket connections tarnish over time and that can introduce resistance into the circuit.
It could be that the ADSL filter itself has developed a fault or that any joins along the length of cable from the box on the wall all the way back to the telephone exchange have gone high resistance

My Router lights have always been green, i don't think i have ever seen them being amber. They flash tough. Oh sometimes the DSL and the internet lights would be off.

My fault, I assumed the 660 series would have the same colour LEDs throughout the different models.

The router is connected to a little box on the wall in my room, the box has a wire that goes to another other room where the only phone of the house is located. The box (i dunno how to call it) has a slot where you can put another phone line and that's pretty much what i can tell you about the box.

Sounds like a central ADSL filter/splitter, same as I use.

Sure tomorrow i'll send you screenshots of the router's configuration pages, hopefully you were joking about that stuff.

And thanks for helping me out 4WD.

No problem.

One other thing, on the Maintenance->System Status page there's a button marked 'Show Statistics', click on it and watch the stats for the WAN Port - ideally you don't want to see any Errors there.
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on March 15, 2009, 08:29 PM
19 of march update: Looks like i jumped the gun again, since monday i have been having frequent disconnects.The DSL and internet lights of my router go off for hours and they light up again after some time which can take hours, what's funny it's that when the internet comes back now it's back 100% not like before which was slow. My ISP went beyond useless yesterday when i got in touch with a guy that told me that he couldn't do anything, i really hate my ISP now. Today i tested the router's ethernet cable with the notebook to see what happenned, no change. Same thing when i swapped the cable (i had a spare) that goes from the router to the phone socket on the wall, no change. I have also noticed that the internet tends to come back when i try to call my ISP, i dunno if it's just a coincidence or if god likes to screw with me but i though it was worth mentioning. Sorry for presenting you with this problem 4WD when is my ISP that should help me, maybe i am being too soft with my dealings with them and should scream or something.





A little update 4WD: I think my internet connection is fine now, or at least i hope so. Friday night i called my ISP again and i got in touch with a guy who instructed me to change my WEP encryption key for something else, i did that but nothing really changed until some time later when i could browse the web like i usually do. It's been two days since that and everything been going smoothly except for a couple of times when i lost the connection but that only lasted few minutes. I still don't know what the hell happenned to my connection and i am pissed that my ISP didn't really help me at all, the problem just went away on it's own.



The 'noise margin' and 'output power' are fine however the 'attenuation downstream' is, to put it bluntly, crap.  A figure of 56db means you're receiving just under 1/500,000 of the signal strength as sent from the ADSL equipment in the exchange.

That sucks, maybe that was the cause of my problems but we can't really know for sure since this is the first time i have ever done that test. Does having my sister's notebook connected to the router affect the test somehow? i am gonna run the test tomorrow with the notebook off to see if something changes.

That's their head office - where they hide, charge you money and provide little support.

If your internet connection was provided from Santiago you wouldn't have any internet at all - the maximum effective distance at which ADSL1 can be used reliably is about 7-8km.  ADSL2(+) can extend that a little but not much.

Your ADSL connection is provided over your phone line from the local telephone exchange to your house - somewhere in your town there will be a rather drab building, (or possibly in the back of the post office if the building is big enough), marked Telephone Exchange.  Someone around town should be able to tell you where it is, (Police, Fire Depart., etc).  When you find it, measure the shortest distance between it and your house on your bike or in your car, (the actual distance the copper cable runs will be longer).  Or just ask the company who provides your phone service how long the cable run between your house and the exchange is - you might get someone helpful who'll tell you.

Depending on how far away it is will help determine where the problem might lie, (eg. if it's <3km then the fault is possibly crappy wire joins or faulty equipment).

You could try unplugging the phone line from the back of the router 3 or 4 times to clean it's connection, the same where the line from the router plugs into the box on the wall.  Plug/socket connections tarnish over time and that can introduce resistance into the circuit.
It could be that the ADSL filter itself has developed a fault or that any joins along the length of cable from the box on the wall all the way back to the telephone exchange have gone high resistance


I didn't know that stuff about ADSL1 and ADSL12 at all. The next time i am in town i might ask around about that special building, it could be kinda awkward asking my ISP directly. I may try unplugging the phone lines once in awhile to clean tough how do you actually clean it thoroughly?


No problem.

One other thing, on the Maintenance->System Status page there's a button marked 'Show Statistics', click on it and watch the stats for the WAN Port - ideally you don't want to see any Errors there.

When my connection was down i actually went there, it changed between "down", "initializating" and "up", there was a bunch of other stats like packages i think. Oh yeah i forgot to take a pic of that page and send it to you like i did the others, do you want it too?
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: 4wd on March 23, 2009, 02:20 AM
Sorry I haven't got back to you sooner, other commitments got in the way as usual  :(

19 of march update: Looks like i jumped the gun again, since monday i have been having frequent disconnects.The DSL and internet lights of my router go off for hours and they light up again after some time which can take hours, what's funny it's that when the internet comes back now it's back 100% not like before which was slow. My ISP went beyond useless yesterday when i got in touch with a guy that told me that he couldn't do anything, i really hate my ISP now. Today i tested the router's ethernet cable with the notebook to see what happenned, no change. Same thing when i swapped the cable (i had a spare) that goes from the router to the phone socket on the wall, no change. I have also noticed that the internet tends to come back when i try to call my ISP, i dunno if it's just a coincidence or if god likes to screw with me but i though it was worth mentioning. Sorry for presenting you with this problem 4WD when is my ISP that should help me, maybe i am being too soft with my dealings with them and should scream or something.

Just from the symptoms you're describing, (barring a hardware fault with your ISPs DSLAM or the router), my vote goes with a cable fault of some kind.

I don't know if your ISP is also your telephone service provider, (TSP), but I'd be reporting a fault on the line of "intermittent disconnection" for your phone calls to your TSP, at the very least it should cause your telephone line to be tested from the exchange for faults such as Low Insulation Resistance (usually caused by rainy weather and poorly weather-proofed cable joints), High Loop Resistance (usually poorly done cable joints) and Excessive Line Capacitance (too many phones plugged in or some idiot has paralleled it with another unterminated cable pair).

If your TSP is really on the ball, (or at least halfway decent), they will also send a tech out to check the wiring connections at your house and check/change the phone.

The fault you're reporting isn't exactly true, (ie. it's happening on the ADSL not the phone), but since your ISP is absolutely useless, (they should have reported a possible cable fault to your TSP), then I'd have no compunction about reporting a fault on your telephone.

Just do not let the telephone people know that the fault is really to do with your ADSL otherwise you'll probably get charged a callout fee, (that's if you aren't already, here in Australia it depends on how much you pay per month for the service as to whether it includes free fault repair).

If they send a tech out, get friendly, offer him/her a cuppa and ask questions about your service like you're interested :)  (Unless they're the uncommunicative, "P!ssoff, I'm working." type.)

eg.
Is my phone line copper all the way back to the exchange?
Just out of interest, was my line within acceptable limits for Loop and Insulation Resistance?
Where is the exchange, I don't remember ever seeing it?

From the brief visit I recently had to Chile, I found the people to be rather helpful.  Of course, I was a tourist blundering about not someone who actually helps to pay their wages.

The 'noise margin' and 'output power' are fine however the 'attenuation downstream' is, to put it bluntly, crap.  A figure of 56db means you're receiving just under 1/500,000 of the signal strength as sent from the ADSL equipment in the exchange.

That sucks, maybe that was the cause of my problems but we can't really know for sure since this is the first time i have ever done that test. Does having my sister's notebook connected to the router affect the test somehow? i am gonna run the test tomorrow with the notebook off to see if something changes.

Won't make a difference, those are purely the figures from the line side of the router back to the exchange - it doesn't take into account anything connected via WLAN or LAN.

Depending on how far away it is will help determine where the problem might lie, (eg. if it's <3km then the fault is possibly crappy wire joins or faulty equipment).

You could try unplugging the phone line from the back of the router 3 or 4 times to clean it's connection, the same where the line from the router plugs into the box on the wall.  Plug/socket connections tarnish over time and that can introduce resistance into the circuit.
It could be that the ADSL filter itself has developed a fault or that any joins along the length of cable from the box on the wall all the way back to the telephone exchange have gone high resistance

I didn't know that stuff about ADSL1 and ADSL12 at all. The next time i am in town i might ask around about that special building, it could be kinda awkward asking my ISP directly. I may try unplugging the phone lines once in awhile to clean tough how do you actually clean it thoroughly?

Not knowing what type of plug/socket they use in Chile, the best/easiest way would be to (un)plug the plug half a dozen or so times, this is normally enough for a decent "clean" - more than I usually do.

One other thing, on the Maintenance->System Status page there's a button marked 'Show Statistics', click on it and watch the stats for the WAN Port - ideally you don't want to see any Errors there.

When my connection was down i actually went there, it changed between "down", "initializating" and "up", there was a bunch of other stats like packages i think. Oh yeah i forgot to take a pic of that page and send it to you like i did the others, do you want it too?

It would be interesting to note whether it was reporting any errors and if that count kept incrementing.

BTW, did the ISP provide the Zyxel and still they own it or did you actually buy it as part of their package ?
Title: Re: Do you guys have any experience with routers? because i have some questions
Post by: gexecuter on March 23, 2009, 04:50 PM
Just from the symptoms you're describing, (barring a hardware fault with your ISPs DSLAM or the router), my vote goes with a cable fault of some kind.

I don't know if your ISP is also your telephone service provider, (TSP), but I'd be reporting a fault on the line of "intermittent disconnection" for your phone calls to your TSP, at the very least it should cause your telephone line to be tested from the exchange for faults such as Low Insulation Resistance (usually caused by rainy weather and poorly weather-proofed cable joints), High Loop Resistance (usually poorly done cable joints) and Excessive Line Capacitance (too many phones plugged in or some idiot has paralleled it with another unterminated cable pair).

If your TSP is really on the ball, (or at least halfway decent), they will also send a tech out to check the wiring connections at your house and check/change the phone.

The fault you're reporting isn't exactly true, (ie. it's happening on the ADSL not the phone), but since your ISP is absolutely useless, (they should have reported a possible cable fault to your TSP), then I'd have no compunction about reporting a fault on your telephone.

Just do not let the telephone people know that the fault is really to do with your ADSL otherwise you'll probably get charged a callout fee, (that's if you aren't already, here in Australia it depends on how much you pay per month for the service as to whether it includes free fault repair).

If they send a tech out, get friendly, offer him/her a cuppa and ask questions about your service like you're interested smiley  (Unless they're the uncommunicative, "P!ssoff, I'm working." type.)

eg.
Is my phone line copper all the way back to the exchange?
Just out of interest, was my line within acceptable limits for Loop and Insulation Resistance?
Where is the exchange, I don't remember ever seeing it?

From the brief visit I recently had to Chile, I found the people to be rather helpful.  Of course, I was a tourist blundering about not someone who actually helps to pay their wages.


My ISP and TSP are one and the same, i have one of those phone + internets packs so unfortunately your idea is a no go.Anyway i am now conviced that the problem is not on my end because some funny happened last friday, i got my internet back 100% and it really hasn't disconnected at all.The same thing happened the other weekend and i was able to use my internet just fine, i don't think it's just a coincidence that during the weekends the router was able to connect to the internet. Is now monday i am still able to surf the web unlike last time which gives me a little hope. If i get a disconnect again i am gonna call my ISP and tell that if they don't send a tech down here they may as well cancel my internet service, i think that would get their attention.


Won't make a difference, those are purely the figures from the line side of the router back to the exchange - it doesn't take into account anything connected via WLAN or LAN.

Oh, that's too bad

Not knowing what type of plug/socket they use in Chile, the best/easiest way would be to (un)plug the plug half a dozen or so times, this is normally enough for a decent "clean" - more than I usually do.

I did that when i was testing the spare cable that i had laying around. I did found a dust bunny in my original cable plug tough i don't think cleaning it really changed anything.


It woud be interesting to note whether it was reporting any errors and if that count kept incrementing.

BTW, did the ISP provide the Zyxel and still they own it or did you actually buy it as part of their package ?

I think they still own the router since they didn't give me a box or anything, plus they never gave me the router's password.