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Title: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: zridling on June 11, 2010, 11:24 PM
What made Total Recall so special was how, for a Hollywood blockbuster, the film was so very smart and at the same time so gratuitous and graphic in all the most offensive ways—F-bombs and body counts earned the film, as the legend goes, an initial X rating. But that's only one reason to love Total Recall, which went on to inspire a TV series, the film Minority Report and a possible remake planned for 2011.

http://scifiwire.com/2010/06/10-reasons-we-still-love.php

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] (http://scifiwire.com/2010/06/10-reasons-we-still-love.php)

The link is complete with film clips and tons of links. I love it. The movie is so bad I can't help but watch it. But then, I'll watch almost any sci-fi movie twice. However, since I can't find DC Cab (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085387/) (1983) on any cable channel, I ordered the cheap DVD. It's not sci-fi, it's just 80s goofy, and I can't get enough.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mitzevo on June 11, 2010, 11:42 PM
Indeed! I actually watched it (again) a few months ago and enjoyed it :huh:
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: lanux128 on June 12, 2010, 01:43 AM
A chiseled titan playing an everyman? C'mon! Arnold Schwarzenegger was certainly miscast in Total Recall. Nevertheless, the depthlessness of his performance hardly matters once he starts flailing and freaking out in the Rekall machine.
-website

a cool movie in my book. though, what does he mean by "depthlessness"?
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 12, 2010, 02:23 AM
+1 for Zane. It was a brilliant movie. Definitely one of the few that will be worth watching for a VERY long time afterward.

Mind you, I find most of Arnie's movies are fantastic.

Running Man -- Loved it.

The Last Action Hero -- Brilliant. Hollywood critics hated it because it spit the truth in their faces and they were insulted. Probably the most under rated movie that I can think of. The poor reception was responded to with "True Lies" in which Arnie tears the critics a new hole. :)

There are strong themes that run through those films.

I'd say the first truly great film in that "genre" or style was Blade Runner (my sister's favorite movie, and one of mine as well).

Yeah... I'm a die hard Arnie fan!

(Him and Jackie Chan are my 2 favorites.)

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: tomos on June 12, 2010, 03:44 AM
A chiseled titan playing an everyman? C'mon! Arnold Schwarzenegger was certainly miscast in Total Recall. Nevertheless, the depthlessness of his performance hardly matters once he starts flailing and freaking out in the Rekall machine.
-website

a cool movie in my book. though, what does he mean by "depthlessness"?
-lanux128 (June 12, 2010, 01:43 AM)

Shallowness (although havent seen it before)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Paul Keith on June 12, 2010, 08:01 AM
...or it could just be depth...less...ness  :P

Some of this article writers can go overboard with the terminology but it's true in this case.

Arnie's performance wasn't shallow but it can be one sided in the sense that True Lies/Last Action Hero/Predator can be considered as him performing with depth while Conan/Running Man/The 6th Day/Kindergarten Cop and Batman and Robin can be considered as some of Arnie's depthless performance where he gets away with Keanu Reeves acting but replace tortured soul with muscle or bulk.

Arnie plays an interesting depthless character in Total Recall though. Unlike his other movies where it's hit or miss and it's easier to say it's just Arnie's muscles making up for his lack of acting chops, this movie holds both Arnie with depth and Arnie without one which is why it still worked. Plus the depthless Arnie is less action hero and more in the realms of Keanu Reeves' Matrix performance except it's still not tortured lost soul but impatient, semi-horny, semi-looking for his destined lover, semi-unsatisfied successful blue collar construction worker, semi-amnesiac, semi-mid life crisis depth.

I won't spoil the movie for those who haven't watched but let's just say there's two Arnie and when they meet, that's when Arnie's depth shows but in a unique manner because often times when people judge depth, they're focusing on one actor but this time what adds depth to Arnie's performance is the way depthless Arnie interacts with campy Arnie and the two merge as a product of one despite being separated thus resulting in one of the few rare depthful performance in movies where a character comes face to face and interacts with his twin/clone/etc.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 12, 2010, 08:05 AM
Hahahahaa~! Nice post Paul! (Very entertaining! I like the style!)

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: zridling on June 12, 2010, 08:53 AM
Be honest, could any of us have resisted Sharon Stone, no matter how evil she was?
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 12, 2010, 09:21 AM
Be honest, could any of us have resisted Sharon Stone, no matter how evil she was?
-zridling (June 12, 2010, 08:53 AM)

My brain cannot parse and process this statement at all. Her being evil added to the attractiveness not lessened it.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: y0himba on June 12, 2010, 09:48 AM
<3 cheesy movies like this :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Paul Keith on June 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
Be honest, could any of us have resisted Sharon Stone, no matter how evil she was?
-zridling (June 12, 2010, 08:53 AM)

Well in fairness to Verhoeven, he did at least try to minimize the Catherine Tramell in her.

Personally, the Wii Tennis she was playing would have probably been a much harder thing to resist for me.

She could be like "Douglas, I know you like this world but can you really live with a world where they didn't program this technology into the system? Come on Douglas, you know you want it. Imagine what games you can play on this if you combined it with Rekall." ~and I would have caved in right then and there.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 13, 2010, 08:29 AM
I always admired Stone's acting ability. She's one of the few that can portray a female role where her character invariably displays depth, intelligence, and sensuality.

She's also an interesting individual to catch in a real interview. I won't dispute Ms. Stone's physical charms. She is a beautiful woman. Even to my poor eyesight. But what I find even more attractive is the intelligence and sense of humor that sits behind it all. She strikes me as the sort of person I'd really like to get to know. (She's a 'bookworm' too!)

Arni Schwartzenegger is separate trip all by himself. The man with that improbable name, accent, and physique is probably the living embodiment of what used to be called the American Dream and the proof of concept for the notion of the Self-made Man. Horatio Alger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger) would have felt vindicated.

This thread provoked me to haul out the DVD and watch it last night.

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+1 with Zaine, Renegade, lanux128 and y0himba. It's a great flick! Raises some thought provoking questions while still remaining fun all the way through. Perfect movie to watch (and discuss) with friends over a pizza on a Saturday night.

--------
P.S. Sharon Stone is a looker. But Rachel Ticotin as Melina wasn't too hard on the eyes either. (Good actress too!)

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Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 13, 2010, 09:50 AM
On the topic of hot movies babes, and sticking in the retro theme, how about a Cherry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_2000) 2000 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317293/) (pic (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3236532736/nm0317293))? Great flick! Not sure if anyone will know it though. 1987 movie with Melanie Griffith in it.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 13, 2010, 11:31 AM
On the topic of hot movies babes, and sticking in the retro theme, how about a Cherry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_2000) 2000 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317293/) (pic (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3236532736/nm0317293))? Great flick! Not sure if anyone will know it though. 1987 movie with Melanie Griffith in it.
-Renegade (June 13, 2010, 09:50 AM)

I remember it well. It didn't get much play & was fairly predictable, but still a fun movie, nonetheless. Back in the days when we all thought Melanie was a major hottie & blisfully unaware how mentally unhinged she is.  ;D
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: sajman99 on June 13, 2010, 01:55 PM
On the topic of hot movies babes, and sticking in the retro theme, how about a Cherry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_2000) 2000 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317293/) (pic (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3236532736/nm0317293))? Great flick! Not sure if anyone will know it though. 1987 movie with Melanie Griffith in it.
-Renegade (June 13, 2010, 09:50 AM)

I remember it well. It didn't get much play & was fairly predictable, but still a fun movie, nonetheless. Back in the days when we all thought Melanie was a major hottie & blisfully unaware how mentally unhinged she is.  ;D
-Innuendo (June 13, 2010, 11:31 AM)

I think perhaps she may have had some work done on her lips. Do you think? ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 13, 2010, 02:09 PM
Cherry 2000! Good grief! The ultimate riff on the old joke about the guy who went out to buy a "patch kit" for his inflatable friend. Such a dumb movie concept that it actually worked.  Bunch of good one-liners in it too, if memory serves.   
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 13, 2010, 03:00 PM
Cherry 2000! Good grief! The ultimate riff on the old joke about the guy who went out to buy a "patch kit" for his inflatable friend. Such a dumb movie concept that it actually worked.  Bunch of good one-liners in it too, if memory serves.
-40hz (June 13, 2010, 02:09 PM)

Look for a Hollywood remake starring Ashton Kutcher called "Dude! Where's my sex doll?".
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 13, 2010, 06:22 PM
You make me wish like I had three hands...
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Josh on June 13, 2010, 06:42 PM
Now this is the plan...Get your ass to Mars
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: f0dder on June 13, 2010, 07:32 PM
On the topic of hot movies babes, and sticking in the retro theme, how about a Cherry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_2000) 2000 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317293/) (pic (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3236532736/nm0317293))? Great flick! Not sure if anyone will know it though. 1987 movie with Melanie Griffith in it.
-Renegade (June 13, 2010, 09:50 AM)
Might be a B-movie, but I kinda like it :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Josh on June 13, 2010, 07:40 PM
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Three words...Howard the Duck (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091225/)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: f0dder on June 13, 2010, 07:45 PM
Three words...Howard the Duck (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091225/)
-Josh (June 13, 2010, 07:40 PM)
Saw it as a kiddo, found it again a few months ago, been meaning to revisit it... wonder if it'll spoil my (fond) memories of it.

PS: linking to external images don't work, at least not the way you tried doing it :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: zridling on June 14, 2010, 01:31 AM
Cherry 2000 made me think of some others I can't pen down right now. As for cheesy sci-fi/doomsday movies I can't resist, here's a few:

Soylent Green (1973)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/

Coneheads (1993) -- highly underrated!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106598/

Hell Comes to Frogtown (1988) -- so, so bad it's good
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093171/

They Live (1988)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/

Galaxy Quest (1999)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0177789/

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (2005) -- not cheesy, but I liked it after the third time.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371724/

Ice Pirates (1984)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087451/
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 14, 2010, 01:41 AM
If you're up for some really heavy retro sci-fi, check out a 1962 short 'film' by Chris Marker called La jetée (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056119/).

I put the word film in quotes because the story is actually told via a series of still photographs with narrative voiceover. Very much like someone is showing a photo album or reading a private diary to you. It's all done in an eerie and somewhat sinister way that almost makes you feel like you're watching the slideshow that goes with the briefing on some secret government investigation - which makes it absolutely perfect for the subject matter of the film.

Black and white and only 28 minutes long. It packs a wallop that many films, with magnitudes higher production budgets (like 12 Monkees) seldom manage.

Director Chris Marker was a determined experimentalist who still sought to entertain, so it's no surprise that his most famous film, La Jetée, is both bizarre and compelling. Shot as a collage of still images, it tells the story of a man sent backward and forward in time in order to save a war-ravaged world. Packing all of the intensity of a full-length feature into 28 minutes, this densely layered narrative stands up to many repeat viewings. Every moment is fraught with anxiety, longing, and suspense as the unnamed protagonist moves through and across time, trying to avoid death at the hands of his contemporaries, the repeated loss of a past love, and the annihilation of his world in the future. Much more a human story than a science fiction film, it is essentially about the power of memory, and its snapshot format captures the feel of a strongly remembered moment. This film is definitely a masterpiece and is not to be missed by the serious cineaste. (The American film 12 Monkeys was adapted from La Jetée, though the original is no doubt the superior piece of cinema.) --James DiGiovanna

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It rarely runs on television/sat/cable, so you'll either have to order it from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Jetee-Sans-Soleil-Criterion-Collection/dp/B000OPPADS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1276495983&sr=8-1) (as part of an overpriced Criterion Collection bundle which includes Marker's Sans Soleil), or watch it on YouTube.

Be forewarned that the YouTube uploads are pretty badly done and don't do this film justice. This is most likely because the original was shot on 16mm B&W in a film noir-ish style which makes it difficult to get a 'good quality' digital transfer unless you really know what you're doing.

Great cult flick. Check it out! :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 14, 2010, 02:50 AM
Cherry 2000[/b] made me think of some others I can't pen down right now. As for cheesy sci-fi/doomsday movies I can't resist, here's a few:
-zridling (June 14, 2010, 01:31 AM)

Hey! You left out:

Logan's Run (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/)

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(with the exquisite and classy Jenny Agutter as Jessica. Who'd have ever imagined a grubby mini-toga could look that good?)

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and

Silent Running (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067756/)

An interesting sc-fi take on the perennially popular Space Ark concept. Natural heritage preservation habitats in earth orbit. A tale of hope, corporate greed, and public indifference. May turn out to be prophetic in the wake of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

and

Zardoz (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/)!

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The post apocalyptic world meets the flower children with a hefty splash of 70s-style misogyny thrown in for good measure. (Hey, this was 1974! Back then, most guys were all for women being 'liberated' - just so long as they didn't get too liberated... )

Such a bad film it's great!

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  Sean Connery is still trying to live that role down. ;D

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mwb1100 on June 14, 2010, 03:01 AM
They Live (1988)
-zridling (June 14, 2010, 01:31 AM)

One of my faves - has the best 'buddy fight' in all filmdom.  Made all the more enjoyable by South Park's hit-for-hit remake in the "Cripple Fight" episode.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 14, 2010, 03:47 AM
They Live (1988)
-zridling (June 14, 2010, 01:31 AM)

One of my faves - has the best 'buddy fight' in all filmdom.  Made all the more enjoyable by South Park's hit-for-hit remake in the "Cripple Fight" episode.
-mwb1100 (June 14, 2010, 03:01 AM)

+1,000 for They Live!

What was that line? I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and I'm all out of bubble gum. Hilarious! I nearly peed myself when I heard that. :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 08:39 AM
When I was a kid, i wasn't allowed to watch rater R movies.  But at the time, my aunt was married to this American guy, and he had this movie.  So when I was sleeping over one day, I watched it.  Needless to say, I used to think Sharon Stone was HELLA HOT in that movie...working out in her leotard.  Man, i thought that was the hottest thing I had seen at the time.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Gwen7 on June 14, 2010, 09:25 AM
Needless to say, I used to think Sharon Stone was HELLA HOT in that movie...working out in her leotard.  Man, i thought that was the hottest thing I had seen at the time.
-superboyac (June 14, 2010, 08:39 AM)

what is it about leotards that they have that effect on most guys? i can understand how it would if someone like sharon stone were wearing one. especially if it's one of those suspenders & tubetop combos like she's got on! but i've seen guys go almost as nuts when the body wearing the leotard wasn't exactly up for the challenge.

i only ask because it's reached the point  where they've considered asking the members to refrain from wearing them on 'mixed' gym nights at the athletic club i belong to.
 :)
   
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 09:56 AM
Needless to say, I used to think Sharon Stone was HELLA HOT in that movie...working out in her leotard.  Man, i thought that was the hottest thing I had seen at the time.
-superboyac (June 14, 2010, 08:39 AM)

what is it about leotards that they have that effect on most guys? i can understand how it would if someone like sharon stone were wearing one. especially if it's one of those suspenders & tubetop combos like she's got on! but i've seen guys go almost as nuts when the body wearing the leotard wasn't exactly up for the challenge.

i only ask because it's reached the point  where they've considered asking the members to refrain from wearing them on 'mixed' gym nights at the athletic club i belong to.
 :)
-Gwen7 (June 14, 2010, 09:25 AM)
Leotards are like bikinis--it's basically underwear that's been socially accepted to be worn in public.  You are basically able to see everything.  So that makes it sexy.  It also tends to enhance most body shapes by having the stretchy fabric everywhere.  It makes everything look all tight and smooth.

it's the same thing with those tight muscle shirts the guys wear.  it makes things look better by being all tight, shiny, and smooth.

besides, I have a thing for sporty girls sometimes.  The whole ponytail, running shorts, tank top look.  Whoo whee!

What kind of club doesn't allow the boys and girls to normally mix?  I've never seen anything like that.  Are you in the USA?
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Gwen7 on June 14, 2010, 10:42 AM
hi! yes i'm in the usa.

we have two nights a week where our gym area is gender specified. it was voted on and passed by something like 90% of the women and better than 70% of the men. from this i would surmise that the majority of our members wanted one night a week where there wasn't the distraction of having the opposite sex around even though the club composition is three quarters single.

weird huh?

now how about someone passing me a club burka so I can go exercise. :P
   

the rest of the club is open for everybody seven days a week.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 10:57 AM
hi! yes i'm in the usa.

we have two nights a week where our gym area is gender specified. it was voted on and passed by something like 90% of the women and better than 70% of the men. from this i would surmise that the majority of our members wanted one night a week where there wasn't the distraction of having the opposite sex around even though the club composition is three quarters single.

weird huh?

now how about someone passing me a club burka so I can go exercise. :P
   

the rest of the club is open for everybody seven days a week.
-Gwen7 (June 14, 2010, 10:42 AM)
Wow, that's really interesting.  It makes sense though.  Guys are always hitting on girls at the gym.  It's probably quite distracting on both ends.  I used to go to a fancy gym, and I'd always be thinking about the girls around me, what clever thing am I going to say to her, maybe I'll ask her out, etc.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Gwen7 on June 14, 2010, 11:19 AM
that's refreshingly honest on your part to admit that.

women often think along similiar lines. but just not as often or exclusively as most men seem to.  

makes for a more interesting world if nothing else. :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: wraith808 on June 14, 2010, 11:32 AM
I think more on the men's side than the women.  I was just talking with my wife about this, and she was telling me about a study where men have little imagination other than where their thoughts intersect with women, and women have a lot of imagination, other than where their thoughts intersect with men.

Leotards are like bikinis--it's basically underwear that's been socially accepted to be worn in public.  You are basically able to see everything.  So that makes it sexy.  It also tends to enhance most body shapes by having the stretchy fabric everywhere.  It makes everything look all tight and smooth.

it's the same thing with those tight muscle shirts the guys wear.  it makes things look better by being all tight, shiny, and smooth.
-superboyac (June 14, 2010, 09:56 AM)

That's when things are in proportion.  Some people don't have the physique to wear such things.  I know I don't and wouldn't.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 14, 2010, 11:47 AM

That's when things are in proportion.
-wraith808 (June 14, 2010, 11:32 AM)

+1. I've sat across the table from some spandex wearers and experienced a mild background anxiety. Not unlike the sensation I imagine an ordinance expert might feel when crouched next to an undetonated IED.

And that goes for the spandex wearing musclebound as well as...umm...their spandex wearing opposites.
 
;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 11:49 AM
That's when things are in proportion.  Some people don't have the physique to wear such things.  I know I don't and wouldn't.
-wraith808 (June 14, 2010, 11:32 AM)
Ha!  For sure!  One is distracting in a good way, the other is still distracting...but not in the same way!
Funny story: a couple of years ago at the gym, this guy was wearing a muscle tee shirt.  it was bright orange.  he's a funny looking dude...funny face, big ol round pot belly, and just sort of goofy in general.  So he decided to jump rope.  oh man!  Funniest thing ever.  What's funnier is that he couldn't do more than two jumps without getting all tangled up.  but he kept trying and trying.  It was hard keeping a straight face.  By the way, i can do a spectacular imitation of this that floors people.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: wraith808 on June 14, 2010, 12:08 PM
And that goes for the spandex wearing musclebound as well as...umm...their spandex wearing opposites.
-40hz (June 14, 2010, 11:47 AM)

That reminds me of one thing I did when I was younger (and so less aware of the fact that some people wearing spandex were not aware that they shouldn't)...

A friend of mine and I went to a gaming convention.  You know the type... where people wear costumes and dress up and play games, etc.

My friend and I dressed up as referees.  Complete with flags and such.  We went around the con finding people that were wearing things that should not have been worn with their ... proportions.  It's amazing how people can think they can dress up as superman or wonder woman and pull it off when they obviously can't.

When we found them, we'd throw flags on the ground like we were calling a football play, and yell out, "Flag on the play!  Illegal use of spandex!"

(I know... pretty bad.  But admit it... you laughed... :))
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mwb1100 on June 14, 2010, 02:10 PM
By the way, i can do a spectacular imitation of this that floors people.
-superboyac (June 14, 2010, 11:49 AM)

Sounds like you have the makings of a 10 Million+ hit viral video.

Get the 15 minutes of fame that's your birthright - upload that baby!
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 02:37 PM
By the way, i can do a spectacular imitation of this that floors people.
-superboyac (June 14, 2010, 11:49 AM)

Sounds like you have the makings of a 10 Million+ hit viral video.

Get the 15 minutes of fame that's your birthright - upload that baby!
-mwb1100 (June 14, 2010, 02:10 PM)
i don't know if it's as funny if you don't know the guy.  I'd have to prepare a skit that introduces the character so that people understand his weirdness...then I can do the impressions.  My friend does an even better impression of him at meetings.  This guy is such a character!
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 14, 2010, 06:24 PM
+1 for wraith808

I have a beer gut that I really need to lose. There's no way I could pull off some tight fitting clothes with it. Which seems obvious, and it astounds me how some super-tubbos figure that they can get away with it. Some things are just not meant for some people.

I remember flying through Houston one time on a stop over to Nashville... Ouch... The number of massively overweight people was simply off the hook. On a return stop over through Seattle, there were very few obese people. It was like night & day. Same country, 2 different cities & states.

+1 for 40Hz (anxiety)

If you've got it, sure, by all means flaunt it. But if you don't have it, please, please, please... Don't torture the rest of us...
NSFW
We love to see camel toe, but hate to see sourdough


Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 14, 2010, 11:28 PM
EWWW!
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 15, 2010, 07:22 AM
At the risk of going back on topic, here's another great clunker sci-fi choice that has still held up over the years.

IT: The Terror from Beyond Space

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A rescue ship is sent to to Mars find out what happened to an earlier expedition after all communications abruptly ceased. The rescue team finds only one delirious survivor. But during the voyage back to Earth they soon discover their ship also has one additional "passenger."

Now who will rescue the rescuers?

A remarkably well done picture for it's time. This is the original "unstoppable monster loose in a confined space" movie that spawned a host of imitators. Alien isn't much more than a rework of this little flick. The highly praised decision to wait until the last possible moment to clearly show the creature in Alien owes a lot to this picture.

Does this dining area scene look familiar?

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Great bits of Eisenhower-era societal standards are found everywhere. Note how the women are doing 'girl's work' serving food and coffee? Apparently back in the 50s, her being an astronaut with two PhDs still couldn't keep Janey from finding a way make herself useful. And the crew members smoke too! They're in a sealed oxygen-enriched environment and smoking... but no worries about fire or explosions, right? Must be because they're puffing American cigarettes.

(Ward, I don't think the Beaver should be watching this... ;D)

With it's (mostly) intelligent dialog and brooding shadowy set, IT succeeds in creating a remarkably believable atmosphere of escalating tension.

You can watch the full film over at Hulu. IT runs 69 minutes.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/65658/it-the-terror-from-beyond-space

 :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: f0dder on June 15, 2010, 08:43 AM
Great bits of Eisenhower-era societal standards are found everywhere. Note how the women are doing 'girl's work' serving coffee? Apparently back in the 50s, her being an astronaut with two PhDs couldn't keep Janey from finding a way make herself useful. And the crew members smoke too! They're in an oxygen enriched closed environment and smoking... but no worries about fire or explosions, right? Must be because they're puffing American cigarettes.
-40hz (June 15, 2010, 07:22 AM)
Fun :-*
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 15, 2010, 02:04 PM
Let's also not forget Howard Hawks original screen adaptation of by John W. Campbell, Jr.'s 1938 sci-fi novella Who Goes There.

This was the marvelous 1951 film The Thing form Another World which is usually just referred to as The Thing.

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Great story of an arctic menace with full Cold War overtones. Bits and pieces of the plot, the characters, and the setting have been recycled into numerous films, the most recent example being the frozen alien base in the X-Files movie.

It's a good enough story that his film was remade two additional times. Carpenter's 1981 version (relocated from the North Pole to Antarctica) kept the original vibe and resulted in that rarest of all Hollywood creatures: a remake that compared favorably with an original. The 1998 edition was long on special effects and name actors, but somehow didn't quite capture the eerie feelings of isolation and weirdness that the previous two versions produced. Maybe this is just one of those pictures that benefits from slightly stilted dialog, lesser acting talent, and B&W photography.

I remember the 1951 edition scared the tar out of me the first time I saw it when I was a little kid. I had snuck out of bed to watch it from the staircase into the living room. My sister used to get to stay up and watch Chiller Theater with her friends on Saturday nights.

Chiller Theater was a favorite with the 'big kids' when I was growing up. It used to run all the old cheap sci-fi and horror movies from the 50s. Most likely because it cost the TV station nothing to do so. Being allowed to join in with the crowd that watched Chiller was a major rite of passage for us. It meant you got to go over a friend's house at night. It meant you got to stay up late drinking sodas and eating popcorn with your friends. But most of all, it meant you weren't a scaredy-cat.

It was on a windy autumn night. I remember watching, freezing my butt off on the stairs (which worked well with a story set in the arctic) scared stiff about what I was seeing - and even more by the thought of getting caught by my parents. My older sister spotted her 'little brat of a brother' almost immediately, but she didn't say anything.

When the movie was over, I quickly went back to bed - but not before I turned on every light in my room!

If my father noticed the lights being on (which I have no doubt he did since he was an incorrigible late-night snacker) he at least had the grace not turn them off. Nor was anything ever said to me about it. My father was a firm believer in the notion that a "burned hand teaches best." And to his credit, he seldom felt the need to personally repeat to us a lesson we had learned ourselves through our own suffering.

But the following Saturday (and every Saturday after that) my sister had to watch Chiller Theater over one of her friends' houses if she wanted to see it.

Apparently "The Dad-Thing" had spoken. ;D

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mouser on June 15, 2010, 02:40 PM
Have to agree with you 40hz, both the original and remake are fantastic movies.
"Chiller Theater" used to come on tv at my grandparents house, and even just seeing the intro, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up -- terrifying stuff for a kid of my age.  Here's the intro, from youtube:
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: parkint on June 15, 2010, 02:55 PM
Total Recall is a favorite.  It is one of those that leaves you thinking, "Was it real, or was it not?  Well there's the scene where..., but then the other scene suggests..."

La Jetee is creepy.  I first saw it in a Film Appreciation class (in college) in the 1970's
I recall that there is ONE MOMENT in the entire film with live action.  And it is the most spooky part of the whole film.  Because it is unexpected!

Forbidden Planet is another classic.  Originally intended as a children's fantasy sci-fi film, it grew in cult status very quickly.  And it was the birth of "Robbie The Robot", who later became Will Robinson's memorable sidekick and protector.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 15, 2010, 03:56 PM
La Jetee[/u] is creepy.  I first saw it in a Film Appreciation class (in college) in the 1970's
I recall that there is ONE MOMENT in the entire film with live action.  And it is the most spooky part of the whole film.  Because it is unexpected!
-parkint (June 15, 2010, 02:55 PM)

OMG yes! Forgot about that part when...no, let's not spoil it.

If you want to have a little fun at your friends' expense, get Jetee on DVD and watch the reaction of the people seeing it for the first time. The expressions on peoples faces when the director drops that bomb on them is amazing.

I'm half tempted to do a movie made up of nothing but footage of the expressions on peoples faces when they're watching Le jetee. That or sandwich stills of those faces with the original and set it up so it's understood they're faces of people from the 'prisoner pool.'

8)

BTW: Does anybody else here, besides me, find that watching people watching a movie is often as interesting - or sometimes even more interesting - than watching the movie itself?



  
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 15, 2010, 08:35 PM
+1 for 40Hz pointing out the "big budget" remake film not quite doing it.

To me, I think the best example of this, though it isn't a remake, is The Blair Witch project. It shows that a good story with a good script far outdoes any special effects. Special effects make the movie if you're a 14-year old boy, or brain dead. Looking back, sometimes those 2 seem synonymous. Nevertheless, really good scripts can even turn a dumb story into a really good film. I think "Waiting for Godot" is an example of that (though it is a play, and not a film).

La Jetee was pretty cool. That sort of plot has been redone many times, and almost never gets tired. I read that "12 Monkeys" took its inspiration from there (gotta love Gilliam).
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 15, 2010, 08:44 PM
You can watch the full film over at Hulu. IT runs 69 minutes.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/65658/it-the-terror-from-beyond-space
-40hz (June 15, 2010, 07:22 AM)

That was an extremely long 69 minutes. I found I kept asking myself, "How long is this thing again?" Finally when I was about 50 minutes into it I said "Yes! Only 20 minutes left. I can handle that!" but found myself looking at the clock again wondering how much time had passed just 5 minutes later.

Also, <spoiler>the THING never gets a woman, so that movie poster doesn't reflect what happens in the movie.</spoiler>
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 15, 2010, 09:35 PM
Also, <spoiler>
-Deozaan (June 15, 2010, 08:44 PM)

They rarely ever did reflect what the film was about back then. ;D

Sorry it wasn't your cuppa tea BTW.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 15, 2010, 10:25 PM
It shows that a good story with a good script far outdoes any special effects.
-Renegade (June 15, 2010, 08:35 PM)

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, good sci-fi and speculative fiction stories are getting pretty rare. Some of the best are currently found in Japanese animae films - but that's a topic that rates a whole separate thread.

One very cool film no sci-fi buff should miss is this relatively low-budget picture:

Avalon-  released in 2001 and directed by Mamoru Oshii, who also was responsible for the great animae classic Ghost in the Shell.

Avalon tells the story of Ash, a woman who competes in an illegal VR wargame called Avalon. Because the game links directly into the brain, Avalon players run the risk of becoming one of a growing  number of damaged players who live out their catatonic lives in state mental hospitals. But despite this risk, or maybe because of it, the game remains popular in the bleak industrial world its players live in.

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From the Prologue:

The near future. Some young people deal with their disillusionment by seeking out illusions of their own - in an illegal virtual-reality war game. Its simulated thrills and deaths are compulsive and addictive. Some players, working in teams called "parties", even earn their living from the game. The game has its dangers. Sometimes it can leave a player brain-dead, needing constant medical care. Such victims are called "Unreturned". The game is named after the legendary island where the souls of departed heroes come to rest: Avalon.

Click on thumbs for full size:

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There's also a trailer available. Caution: trailer contains some images that may partially give the ending away. DO NOT watch if you'd rather not risk ruining it for yourself.
Spoiler
Watch trailer here. (http://www.alltrailers.net/avalon.html)


Avalon covers most of the concepts found in the three Matrix films. But it does so better than all of them combined. The Polish actress Malgorzata Foremniak, who stars as the character Ash, creates one of the more intriguing female leads since Sigourney Weaver's portrayal of Lt. Ellen Ripley in 1979's Alien.

Not too shabby looking either:

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I could easily get lost in those shoulders...too bad they didn't cast her as Aeon Flux!

The film is mostly shot using a weird sepia color palette that really hammers home the dull and colorless lives the characters endure when not inside the game.

Strange visuals, a strong but somewhat 'damaged' heroine, illegal cybergames, virtual reality, the hint of a monumental government conspiracy, and some mysterious allusions to Arthurian legends.

Now that's my kind of picture!

----

Trivia break:

The basset hound you see in Avalon is owned by the director. It's a female and it's named Gabriel. (Go figure.) This dog served as the model for the basset hound in Ghost in the Shell along with several other animae films. The classic scene in Ghost in the Shell where Bato (the dogs owner) fixes the dog a fancy meal and then scoops its long ears out of the dog dish while it's eating is exactly duplicated in Avalon.
+++
In real life (whatever that means) Ms. Foremniak is a natural blond:

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 ;)




Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 16, 2010, 10:37 PM
A person either loves 50's sci-fi and horror movies or they don't. There's no middle ground.

EDIT: This was in reference to some not liking that movie posters & movies of the time didn't always sync up or may not be as fast-paced as modern films.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 17, 2010, 12:03 AM
It shows that a good story with a good script far outdoes any special effects.
-Renegade (June 15, 2010, 08:35 PM)

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, good sci-fi and speculative fiction stories are getting pretty rare. Some of the best are currently found in Japanese animae films - but that's a topic that rates a whole separate thread.

-40hz (June 15, 2010, 10:25 PM)

Have you seen "Fallen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_%28film%29)" with Denzel Washington, John Goodman and Donald Sutherland? It's a horror film, but it's just beyond spectacular. I've seen it probably 50 times or more. (An international title for it was "Dark Angel".)

It only rates 42% at Rotten Tomatoes, but they're retards. It really is very cool. Even if it recycles some themes, it's done really well.

I find that the very best films are often horror films. Now, 99% of horror films are just drivel, but that rare horror that pokes its head above the crowd really does go beyond.

Sci-fi I find are generally more consistently good, but again, rarely truly are "great". Star Wars and Blade Runner are what film makers aspire to. Getting there is another thing though.

A lot of current TV shows are doing very well with good plots and writing. Lost, Supernatural, Flash Forward, Fringe, Heroes, Paradox, Star Gate (various spin offs), Southpark, and I'm sure others can name more -- these push different methods and literary devices with plot twists and the like that you don't get in shows like "Friends" (which I find mildly humorous, but entirely stupid) or other typically mainstream shows.

There's nothing better than a show that when it finishes, you're swearing and cursing a blue streak because now you have to wait an entire week to find out what happens next.

The show "Surface" was very cool, but got canceled, leaving the final episode as a cliff hanger ending. Disappointing when shows get canceled sometimes. Farscape deserved better.

Blah. I'm rambling now.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Target on June 17, 2010, 12:39 AM
Avalon-  released in 2001 and directed by Mamoru Oshii, who also was responsible for the great animae classic Ghost in the Shell.

Avalon tells the story of Ash, a woman who competes in an illegal VR wargame called Avalon. Because the game links directly into the brain, Avalon players run the risk of becoming one of a growing  number of damaged players who live out their catatonic lives in state mental hospitals. But despite this risk, or maybe because of it, the game remains popular in the bleak industrial world its players live in.
-40hz (June 15, 2010, 10:25 PM)

I've never seen this film, but I was struck by the apparent similarity to Tad Williams otherland series (of books)

One of my alltime faves - anyone else read these?
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 17, 2010, 02:05 AM
A person either loves 50's sci-fi and horror movies or they don't. There's no middle ground.

EDIT: This was in reference to some not liking that movie posters & movies of the time didn't always sync up or may not be as fast-paced as modern films.
-Innuendo (June 16, 2010, 10:37 PM)

I see this as a response to 40hz's recommendation of IT: The Terror from Beyond Space and my dislike of it, so I'm responding to clarify my position.

I don't really mind that the movie poster didn't align with what happened in the movie. Heck, these days you'll see movie trailers with actual footage from the movie that doesn't make it into the movie. And I don't mind slow-paced movies either, as long as something is happening (i.e. story or character(s) is/are developing).

What probably bothered me most about the movie was just how stupid and helpless everybody was. A couple of the really bad ones:

[Potential Spoilers Below]


And these are just a few examples of the stupidity of everyone involved.

I disagree with 40hz's description: "With it's (mostly) intelligent dialog and brooding shadowy set, IT succeeds in creating a remarkably believable atmosphere of escalating tension."

In my opinion, the characters were unbelievably stupid (stupid is as stupid does) and quite often downright illogical. I do suppose, however, that there was escalating tension throughout the film, but that was mostly just my patience wearing thin waiting for anybody do to something intelligent.

Movies really irritate me when people behave irrationally or illogically for no good reason. (Upon reflection, that sounds funny, I need a valid, logical reason for someone to behave illogically.) I'm not good at watching movies just for entertainment. I usually can't help but think about them for the next few days and analyze them to pieces.

But now that I've vented about IT: The Terror from Beyond Space, I think I've gotten it out of my system enough that I can move on to analyzing Pandorum (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1188729/), which I found while looking to see if Avalon was on NetFlix's Instant Play. (It's not.)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 17, 2010, 06:14 AM
...
Movies really irritate me when people behave irrationally or illogically for no good reason. (Upon reflection, that sounds funny, I need a valid, logical reason for someone to behave illogically.) I'm not good at watching movies just for entertainment. I usually can't help but think about them for the next few days and analyze them to pieces.
...
-Deozaan (June 17, 2010, 02:05 AM)

I know what you mean. But I think that movies are also a reflection of the general level of sophistication of their first audiences. Less education means there is less of a burden on the film maker to make things align closer to reality.

Take the "hacker" that takes control of all the government military computers through "military strength firewalls and encryption", finds the "secret plans", and hands them to the hero. In 30 seconds. All the while screaming, "Hold on! Just wait!"

Never mind that it would take all the computers in the world trillions upon trillions of universe lifetimes to crack just 1 encrypted key. That's too long for the audience to wait. Make it 10 seconds. ;)

That's the general level of sophistication of the average person. The people here at this forum are not representative of the norm.

But so what? It pays off to suspend disbelief, buy into the ridiculousness and just enjoy the movie no matter how far fetched things are.

Take CSI... Yikes. Need I say more? :)

What I would really like more of are films like Riddick where instead of some typical, lame hero, you get the ANTI-HERO! Elric of Melniboné and Stormbringer. That's the kind of stuff that puffy film studios just can't manage to get done. Sigh...

It's so bad that quite often I find myself rooting for the "bad guy".

Oh - DEXTER. Great show.

Well, I'm wandering very far off-topic yet again.

Suspending disbelief. Yes. That helps make movies/shows more enjoyable. :D

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: f0dder on June 17, 2010, 06:35 AM
Oh - DEXTER. Great show.
-Renegade (June 17, 2010, 06:14 AM)
:Thmbsup:
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 17, 2010, 07:01 AM
It only rates 42% at Rotten Tomatoes, but they're retards.
-Renegade (June 17, 2010, 12:03 AM)

I prefer the Quiet Earth (http://www.quietearth.us/) website for sci-fi and horror reviews.

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QE is primarily interested in post-apocalyptic themed films. But it also provides a decent amount of coverage for other genres as well. They're especially good at finding obscure indie and non-US movies. They're a good source for pictures that don't get much coverage elsewhere.

FWIW I seldom read or otherwise pay attention to reviews until I see the film. Before that, all I'm looking for is a brief non-spoiler plot synopsis; a few stills so I can get some idea of the overall 'look' and level of production; and a trailer or two. (I love trailers!)

Once I see the film, I'm much more open to reading reviews. But the main reason I do is to see if I might have missed something rather than to seek validation for my own impressions. I'm at the stage where I'm pretty comfortable with just liking what I like.

I find that the very best films are often horror films. Now, 99% of horror films are just drivel, but that rare horror that pokes its head above the crowd really does go beyond.


One of the reasons I've never had much interest in horror films is because most are pretty lacking. But as you noted, that only makes the rare exception even more enjoyable. And when they're good, they're very good indeed.

I never had patience with vampire anything until the lovely Kate Beckinsdale took a crack at it in the first two Underworld installments. I thought the third one lost something, but the first two were very well done. Same goes for Blade and Blade II. Both were way up there for pure entertainment value. (A vampire Pomeranian? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Keff-QLfTc) Love it! You need a really sick sense of humor to come up with something like that.)

Sci-fi I find are generally more consistently good, but again, rarely truly are "great". Star Wars and Blade Runner are what film makers aspire to. Getting there is another thing though.

The biggest problem with filming sci-fi is the story. It's exceptionally hard to translate something as idea-based as a sci-fi story into something as action-oriented and visual as a movie. As one director pointed out, all you can film are actions and images. There's absolutely no way to film someone's emotions or thoughts. The best you can do is imply them through visual cues.

Then there's the problem of providing context. Since much good sci-fi creates its own universe, there's a huge amount of background information that needs to be conveyed before the reader/viewer can get into the story. Fans of sci-fi have an advantage because they already know certain genre conventions which allow them to enter into the story more quickly than the average viewer. Say "warp drive" and a fan will immediately recall the six or seven fully developed (fictional) ways a starship can be made to hop from star to star. A non-fan will need more hand-holding and explanations. Which takes time away from telling the story. And that's a big problem in the film world.

In the trade, losing footage to provide necessary background is referred to as "laying pipe."  A good example of where it didn't become a problem was in Blade Runner. With a few well chosen scenes and images, Ridley Scott plunked his audience right down into Phillip K. Dick's dystopian future in less than 5 minutes. And with hardly anyone noticing just how strange a world it was.

A good example of where "laying pipe" was a problem was in the film The Minority Report. If you had never read the story, you would have been lost without being filled in on how this weird new method of law enforcement worked. And for it to be believable, you needed a lot of background. Unfortunately, Spielberg spent the first twenty or so minutes providing nothing but background. The real story didn't get started until around the 22 minute mark.

That delay would have been enough to kill The Minority Report for most people - even if it weren't such a lousy movie. (Which it was.)

--------

One interesting option is to blend horror with sci-fi. It's probably one of the toughest tricks in the world to pull off. But it hasn't kept some directors from trying.

Event Horizon tried and failed despite it's huge budget, name director, and excellent cast. Just goes to show that all the acting talent and special effects in the world still couldn't compensate for a fundamentally flawed storyline. It was almost painful to watch superb actors like Fishburn, Neill, Quinlan and Richardson giving it their all - and to no avail.

Event Horizon was one of the few films I ever went to where the audience started walking out before it was over... (The other was Excalibur.)

Carpenter's Prince of Darkness mostly succeeded even though the ending got dragged out longer than it should have. AFAIK, this was the very first movie to posit the notion of evil as being a form of malignant intelligence that exists in a dark parallel universe. And one which is actively trying to cross over into our own.

Shades of the old master: H.P. Lovecraft  :-* with his "Elder Gods"... Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

I wouldn't mind seeing a remake of PoD. Especially if it were updated to include some of the more recent discoveries in physics. And if they fixed the pacing.

The 2006 movie Pulse actually did succeed in merging the two genres. Fairly believable if you put yourself within the context of the story. It also contains some of the better creepy visuals out there.

Imagine our wireless technologies made a connection to a world beyond our own. Imagine that world used that technology as a doorway into ours. Now, imagine the connection we made can't be shut down. When you turn on your cell phone or log on to your e-mail, they'll get in, you'll be infected and they'll be able to take from you what they don't have anymore -- life.  

This film has some memorable scenes. One of the best takes place during a discussion in a coffee shop in what is now a virtually deserted city following an unexplained  rash of suicides and disappearances. The character Maddie is trying to explain to skeptical computer hacker-extraordinaire Dexter what she thinks she knows about what's happening. A very strange wild-eyed man, half-drunk, and half out of his mind with fear, butts into their conversation:

Mattie Webber: Just like Josh said, he pulled something through...

Dexter McCarthy: Pulled ghosts through the Wi-Fi? I just doesn't make any sense.

Thin Bookish Guy:[adding to their conversation] It makes all the sense in the world. Do you have any idea of the amount of data that's floating out there? The amount of information we just beam into the air? We broadcast to everyone where we are, and we think we're safe? The whole freakin' city is going insane, and we're acting like it's nothing. Well, it's not nothing. It's something we don't understand, and it is coming for us.

There's a clip up on YouTube if you want to watch it. Link here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pu_Pt8WvOI&feature=related). This scene starts at the 1:22 mark.

Pulse is an American remake of the 2001 the Japanese film: Kairo. It's one of those few times when a remake holds it's own against the original. I have both. I personally think Pulse is the better movie.

You can watch the trailer for Pulse here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBcoo8i33L0) and the trailer for Kairo here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k561bwxNPpQ).

-----

One new movie that looks promising is a Columbian military/horror piece called El Paramo.

A special high mountain command composed of nine experienced soldiers is sent to a military base in a desolate high-plains moor of Colombia with wich contact was lost several days ago and was believed to be the target of a guerrilla attack.

Upon arrival, the only person found inside the base is a peasant woman who is heavily chained. Gradually, the isolation, the inability to communicate with the outside world and the impossibility to escape, undermine the integrity and sanity of the soldiers, causing them to lose the certainties about the identity of the enemy and creating them doubts about the true nature of that strange and silent woman.

Prisoners of fear, paranoia and a dark secret that they carry, they will challenge each other becoming animals willing to kill one another in order to survive.

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Quiet Earth has a write up and a trailer if anybody's interested. You can find it here (http://www.quietearth.us/articles/2009/11/17/Columbian-military-horror-in-EL-PARAMO).

Looks pretty cool. 8)

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 17, 2010, 03:21 PM
Take CSI... Yikes. Need I say more? :)
-Renegade (June 17, 2010, 06:14 AM)

Upon reflection, I suppose I'm only willing to suspend my disbelief so far as the setting and theme of the movie suggests is reasonable.

Something that takes place in the future or in space or another planet requires a suspension of disbelief in what kind of technology is available and what other forms of life exist. Generally, the rules of "how things work in reality" don't have to be modified much more than that.

Something in a fantasy setting requires you to be able to modify the "rules" for other forms of life and what kind of magical powers are available/commonplace (i.e. Harry Potter).

Something set in modern America (i.e. CSI) should require very few modifications to the rules of "how things work," so when things are unrealistic they set off internal alarm bells that say "Hey! That can't work like that!"

But no matter the setting or theme, I become agitated very easily when a director/screenplay insults my intelligence by presenting me with people who behave irrationally and illogically without providing a logical reason as to why their cognitive abilities are so impaired.

I guess what I'm saying is that, ultimately, I have an extremely hard time suspending my disbelief in people (their behavior). Even though I'm quite capable and willing (as far as the theme suggests) to suspend my disbelief in "how things work in reality" for the sake of a good story.

I think the Transformers movies are a good example of that. Polymorphic alien robotic lifeforms that take the shape of human-made vehicles is a pretty lame idea that requires you to really stretch your imagination to accept as possible if you think about it, but I willingly accepted it. The thing that I hated about the movies was how idiotic nearly every single human being (and some of the robots, especially in Revenge of the Fallen) was!

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 17, 2010, 04:03 PM
But no matter the setting or theme, I become agitated very easily when a director/screenplay insults my intelligence by presenting me with people who behave irrationally and illogically without providing a logical reason as to why their cognitive abilities are so impaired.
-Deozaan (June 17, 2010, 03:21 PM)

Wow...

You can get all that just from a movie?

How do you ever manage to make it through a work day? ;) :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 17, 2010, 04:41 PM
But no matter the setting or theme, I become agitated very easily when a director/screenplay insults my intelligence by presenting me with people who behave irrationally and illogically without providing a logical reason as to why their cognitive abilities are so impaired.
-Deozaan (June 17, 2010, 03:21 PM)

Wow...

You can get all that just from a movie?

How do you ever manage to make it through a work day? ;) :)
-40hz (June 17, 2010, 04:03 PM)

The medication (legal and prescribed!) sure helps. ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 17, 2010, 05:16 PM
The medication (legal and prescribed!) sure helps. ;)
-Deozaan (June 17, 2010, 04:41 PM)

^ LOL Good one! :Thmbsup:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Lucky too...I 'm stuck with OTC.  ;D

(But at least I get to pick the "flavor."  :eusa_dance:  )
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Stoic Joker on June 17, 2010, 07:09 PM
A person either loves 50's sci-fi and horror movies or they don't. There's no middle ground.

EDIT: This was in reference to some not liking that movie posters & movies of the time didn't always sync up or may not be as fast-paced as modern films.
-Innuendo (June 16, 2010, 10:37 PM)

Ya know... I'm not entirely sold on the modern (faster-est paced) movies are better to be frank. The 50's flicks, while a tad corny, did rely on a suspenseful-ly told story and the viewers imagination to (best) fill in parts that would today just be gushing gore. Because nobody knows what really scares us better than we do (kick in imagination->done).

Moving forward the story telling craft became (much) less important as movies went from thrill-a-minute, to action packed, to violent, to really violent, to ultra violent, to hyper violent to who the hell knows what's next. It's gotten to the point where there is so much going on so fast that one spend half the movie pondering wtf just happened. Why?

In the 50's when a scene was shot "at night", the picture would (more often than not) just have a grayish background (that we all understood to mean it's night time), and the rest of the "action" was easy to perceive including the stick the rubber monster was mounted on. Now we have scenes the cost millions to create, but are so dark that the screen is literally completely pitch black with only a few points on reflected moving light, and nobody could possibly have a clue what happened. Half these "High-Tech" million dollar scenes could easily be recreated with a cheap camera, a rubber monkey, and the minimal light that leaks under a closed closet door for under $10.

So if you're looking for a superspy, rockstar, scientist, brain surgeon, astronaut, racecar driver ... look no further than the Adventures of Buckaroo Bonsi - It is by far the stupidest movie I ever totally loved (I still whistle the rather catchy theme music from time to time).
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 17, 2010, 08:29 PM
^ +1!

Sometimes the lesser the verisimilitude provided by the effect, the more you're  forced to engage the imagination. 

I always found that poorly focused and jerky B&W has a certain nightmarish quality that you don't get from hi-def digital wizardry. Especially effective is the old trick of dropping every third frame to create a subtle but noticable choppiness that gets most people edgy without their knowing why. 

The original Carnival of Souls is a good example of how low-tech produced a film more frightening than its hi-tech remake.

   
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 17, 2010, 08:58 PM
Especially effective is the old trick of dropping every third frame to create a subtle but noticable choppiness that gets most people edgy without their knowing why. 
-40hz (June 17, 2010, 08:29 PM)

That is wicked~! I've never heard of that before!
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Gwen7 on June 18, 2010, 02:08 PM
40hz-

stopped at borders on my break yesterday. I found a copy of avalon for only $12.99 so i bought it and watched it last night. wow! most excellent movie. much better than the matrix. definitely the best cyber oriented sf movie I have seen so far. i'll likely watch it again this weekend with friends.

really liked the lead. she gets crabby just like me!

i'm very surprised this movie isn't better known. 

thank you for sharing!  :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 18, 2010, 08:54 PM
Ya know... I'm not entirely sold on the modern (faster-est paced) movies are better to be frank. The 50's flicks, while a tad corny, did rely on a suspenseful-ly told story and the viewers imagination to (best) fill in parts that would today just be gushing gore. Because nobody knows what really scares us better than we do (kick in imagination->done).
-Stoic Joker (June 17, 2010, 07:09 PM)


I'm of the same opinion. And I wasn't even alive when those movies were made!

So if you're looking for a superspy, rockstar, scientist, brain surgeon, astronaut, racecar driver ... look no further than the Adventures of Buckaroo Bonsi - It is by far the stupidest movie I ever totally loved (I still whistle the rather catchy theme music from time to time).

The DVD that was recently released a couple years ago gave an excellent treatment of the Buckaroo universe. Lots of things are explained in the extras that were never explained in the movie.

And if you thought the theme song was catchy, somewhere I have an MP3 of the never-released alternate version of the theme music which was supposed to originally be the ending credits theme, but never made it to the final cut of the film.

....and it's Mr. Bigboo-TAY!!  :D
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: parkint on June 18, 2010, 10:35 PM
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (the original) is a favorite classic.
The original pre-screening version of that movie did not contain the "parenthetical" story of him arriving at the hospital (in the beginning), telling his whole story (the main plot of the movie), and the (doctor?) picking up a phone to notify the FBI.
The way it was originally intended was to begin right in with the story and end on that scene where he is running from car to car trying to warm people coming into the town.  Then he turns to the camera and screams, 'Your're Next !!'
Apparently, the early audiences (in the 50's) thought that was just too scary.
So they added the nice (soft) wrapper that generates a 'happy ending'.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 19, 2010, 09:58 AM
parkint, what a shame. The pre-screening version would have made it a much more powerful story.

Oh well...what do you expect from audiences that were scared senseless by The Tingler (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053363/).
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 24, 2010, 10:52 PM
Apparently, the early audiences (in the 50's) thought that was just too scary.
So they added the nice (soft) wrapper that generates a 'happy ending'.

-parkint (June 18, 2010, 10:35 PM)

It still happens today. (Look no further than Avatar for a recent example.) Just ask anybody who has ever submitted a screenplay with a completely tragic ending. It will either be changed by the studios or not get made. Same goes for any ending where human evil goes completely unpunished. Either the bad guy has to get his comeuppance, or the hero must live to fight him another day - which basically makes "The End " more like "To be continued..." That's one of the reasons why all those unstoppable-psycho-serial-killer franchises (Freddie Kreuger, Jason, et al) have so many sequels. Hollywood will not allow these stories to end with evil triumphant.

The US motion picture industry has several unwritten 'moral' rules when it comes to story development and outcomes. Would be directors and writers ignore them at their peril.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

 8)

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 26, 2010, 05:21 PM
That's one of the reasons why all those unstoppable-psycho-serial-killer franchises (Freddie Kreuger, Jason, et al) have so many sequels. Hollywood will not allow these stories to end with evil triumphant.
-40hz (June 24, 2010, 10:52 PM)

Huh.

So....all these years Hollywood has been pushing out drek sequels in order to deliver an uplifting message that good will eventually prevail.

Here I thought it was just a money grab.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 26, 2010, 10:36 PM
^Nope.  There are certain unofficial but very real taboos the US movie industry observes. Evil does not triumph. Children are not to be subjected to cruelty or physical harm. You may threaten harm. But have a scene in a script where a child actually gets hurt and your script will be tossed in the trash. And religions beliefs are not to be blasphemed or ridiculed either. You can take a jab at a bad clergyman or fringe religion. But you can forget about poking fun at or criticizing any of the major faiths. Same goes for most government figures and offices. You can have a corrupt politician or judge, but you will not be allowed to imply that all government, or it's judicial system are corrupt.

In the late 60s, there was a pilot made for a TV series where the United States became a fascist police state in the wake of an undisclosed crisis. It dealt with a highly patriotic member of the dreaded Internal Security Forces (i.e. the secret police) who gradually began to realize everything he believed in was a lie. The series was supposed to show his gradual transition to rebel against the government. It was televised once and has never been aired since. The title of the pilot was Shadow on the Land.

Despite a favorable reception from viewers, the series never entered into production. And despite numerous requests coupled with a minor campaign to get this pilot released on DVD, to date nothing has occurred or been promised. Most people who have been involved in the campaign have come to the conclusion it never will be rereleased. Maybe there are a few too many parallels between some of what is in this film and post 9/11 America for comfort?  


There's more, but the above examples should give you some idea of the sort of things Hollywood self-censors.

In a way it's kind of funny. Moral conservatives constantly criticize the film industry for it's lack of restraint and respect when it has always ( except for a brief period in the 70s where anything went ) been very careful not to risk offending mainstream sensibilites.
 8)
    
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 4wd on June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM
Children are not to be subjected to cruelty or physical harm. You may threaten harm. But have a scene in a script where a child actually gets hurt and your script will be tossed in the trash.
-40hz (June 26, 2010, 10:36 PM)

How does that gel with the ending of The Mist (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0884328/) ?

While you don't actually get to see the deed done, the killing of the boy is very graphically implied.  (Apologies to people who may not have seen the film but what I've typed in no way gives away the whole plot.)

But then, the SciFi/Horror genre is allowed a bit more flexibility with regard to how a story ends.

That's one of the reasons why all those unstoppable-psycho-serial-killer franchises (Freddie Kreuger, Jason, et al) have so many sequels. Hollywood will not allow these stories to end with evil triumphant.
-40hz (June 24, 2010, 10:52 PM)

I would have put it down as trying to milk more money out of the movie watchers.  If they just didn't want to end with evil being triumphant then they could have stopped at Friday the 13th or A nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors, (to use your two psycho examples), but they didn't.  From that point on it was just greed, IMO.  (If you follow the premise of New Nightmare (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111686/) you could actually say that Evil has won - who else would be causing all these crappy sequels to be inflicted upon us?)

Anyone who enjoys the SciFi/Horror genre will go along and see the sequel no matter how bad it is, they'll watch the following sequels in the hope they will be better than the previous, etc, etc, etc.

I know, I am stupid enough to sit through every sequel of most SciFi/Horror films.  :P
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 27, 2010, 09:26 AM
How does that gel with the ending of The Mist (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0884328/) ?
-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)

I'm with you, 4wd. I just don't buy it. Otherwise The Forgotten (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356618/) never would have been made. At the end, IIRC, good does not win. The "Big Bad" persists and its crystal clear that good will never win.

There are lots of movies and TV shows where evil wins. I'm thankful for that, watching the good guys win in the end. Every. Single. Time. Well, it gets old.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 27, 2010, 12:34 PM
How does that gel with the ending of The Mist (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0884328/) ?

While you don't actually get to see the deed done, the killing of the boy is very graphically implied.
-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)


As I said, you can imply all you want. But you can't show it happening.

The scene in The Happening where the smart-mouthed kid got shot had to be reworked several times before Shyamalan got an OK from the studio's legal department. Note when you see the film that you don't actually see the boy getting hit even though you do get to see his dead body (partially and briefly) afterwards. And even that is so quick it's almost implied.

That's one semi-spoiler in any movie. If there's a lead character kid in the film that's 12 or younger, you just know they're going to make it through the movie no matter what.You can kill off the heroine, her boyfriend, her dog, and her helpless and elderly Mom and Dad. You can  even nuke the town where she was born. But that 7-year old kid she picks up along the way is always going to be one of the survivors when the credits finally roll.


I would have put it down as trying to milk more money out of the movie watchers.  If they just didn't want to end with evil being triumphant then they could have stopped at Friday the 13th or A nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors, (to use your two psycho examples), but they didn't.  From that point on it was just greed, IMO.  (If you follow the premise of New Nightmare you could actually say that Evil has won - who else would be causing all these crappy sequels to be inflicted upon us?)

Anyone who enjoys the SciFi/Horror genre will go along and see the sequel no matter how bad it is, they'll watch the following sequels in the hope they will be better than the previous, etc, etc, etc.

Yes. They could have stopped the follow-ons at any time. But only if it left the 'conflict' in an unresolved state where evil hadn't yet been conclusively defeated. They don't greenlight movies where the script calls for human evil to finally, absolutely, and conclusively win.

And if you do know of an exception, please educate me. Because AFAIK - it just doesn't happen.

Note: I wasn't saying that the taboo against human evil triumphant is what drives the creation of sequels. But it does provide the opportunity to make sequels since it keeps most of these films from reaching their logical conclusion.

I mean c'mon... unstoppable killer repeatedly comes back from the dead after he's been hit with everything from a baseball bat to a tactical nuke? By this time you'd figure he's just a force of nature like a tornado - something to avoid as best you can since there's nothing you can really do about it.

One way out would be if the military rounded up Jason and his ilk and transported them over to the Afghan/Pakistan border to hunt for and kill Bin Laden. After Bin Laden was gone, the Pentagon could send in the cruise missiles and possibly even call in a B2 wing to do a follow up cluster bombing run "just to be sure." International threat removed, evil punished, supernatural evil semi-redeemed but still punished, and America saved!

Give it a name like Leatherface Leathernecks or The Texas Chainsaw Detail with Stallone as the commanding general and Dolpf Lundgren as the 'CIA guy.' Hey, dredge up the Cenobites from  Barker's Hellraiser franchise while you're at it too. Let Bin Laden plan to unleash them in LA as part of his next terrorist attack...

You can probably see why they don't they let me write these things... ;D


How does that gel with the ending of The Mist (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0884328/) ?
-4wd (June 27, 2010, 07:29 AM)

Note: the following response contains film spoiler. Don't read if you haven't seen The Mist.

Spoiler
The shootings at the end of the film weren't murders. They were mercy killings intended to save his child and the others from a fate worse than death. But even though David ends up shooting them (with their consent) for a noble purpose, he still gets punished. Since killing another is generally considered 'wrong' (especially killing his own child in order to 'spare him') David is punished by his survival - either to face criminal charges; or at the very least, to live with what he has done and the knowledge he was wrong.

The monsters don't qualify for the taboo because they are not human evil.


I'm with you, 4wd. I just don't buy it. Otherwise The Forgotten (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356618/) never would have been made. At the end, IIRC, good does not win. The "Big Bad" persists and its crystal clear that good will never win.
-Innuendo (June 27, 2010, 09:26 AM)

Yet another spoiler laden response on my part... ;)

Spoiler
Good does win. The redhead got her child back.

The aliens aren't 'taboo evil' because they aren't human evil. And even so, the evil alien conducting the experiment gets 'punished' by his own people for his experimental failure. He bet his mind control games could sever that strange spiritual link his people observed between a human mother and child.

Well guess what? It couldn't. Human love (and family ties) triumph over heartless advanced alien experimenters and their human government collaborators.

Plus, they're not gone - so there's an implied "to be continued." Sequel anyone?

If evil did triumph over good, Telly and would have lost Sam, never got her memory back, and that would have been that. In real life that's probably what would have happened. And that would have made an incredibly boring movie. Or no movie at all since it's an inevitable conclusion which offers no opportunity for genuine conflict. And without conflict, there is no story to film...


There are lots of movies and TV shows where evil wins. I'm thankful for that, watching the good guys win in the end. Every. Single. Time. Well, it gets old.

It only gets old when screenwriters can't come up with an original angle on it. But that's why we create fiction rather than just read history. If you want depressing examples of where human evil triumphs, look no further than that - although you might argue that since history is constantly being written and rewritten, it's a never-ending series of stories about the good guys going on to fight another day.

I'm not aware of any movie where human evil triumphs absolutely. There may be films where the bad guys win the conflict, but the protagonists still always wins in terms of spiritual growth, or goes on to fight evil another day- even if its' only by inspiring a new generation with his/her own death.

How 'bout some more titles?

Ain't film appreciation fun? That's why you always want to watch and discuss movies with friends.  ;D  :Thmbsup:





Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 27, 2010, 03:09 PM
They don't greenlight movies where the script calls for human evil to finally, absolutely, and conclusively win.
-40hz (June 27, 2010, 12:34 PM)

Re: The Forgotten. I had 'forgotten' (no pun intended) that when I watched the movie it was the version with the alternate ending.

All right...I'll try again. A movie where human evil finally, absolutely, conclusively wins...hmm....

The Usual Suspects.

Spoiler
Evil gets away not only scot-free, but in spectacular fashion that makes utter fools of the good guys.

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on June 27, 2010, 04:33 PM
They don't greenlight movies where the script calls for human evil to finally, absolutely, and conclusively win.
-40hz (June 27, 2010, 12:34 PM)

Re: The Forgotten. I had 'forgotten' (no pun intended) that when I watched the movie it was the version with the alternate ending.

All right...I'll try again. A movie where human evil finally, absolutely, conclusively wins...hmm....

The Usual Suspects.

-Innuendo (June 27, 2010, 03:09 PM)


I LOVE when the bad guys win. It's such a refreshing change. And that was a spectacular movie!

For evil winning, "The Empire Strikes Back". Hoth base destroyed. The rebellion routed. Luke gets his ass handed to him by Vader. Good only wins in that it isn't completely destroyed. Still, The Usual Suspects is a much better example of the bad guys winning.

Evil kind of wins in a lot of horror movies. Or at least they leave it open for the evil to return in a sequel. Saw. Friday the 13th. A Nightmare on Elm Street. The Evil Dead. etc. etc.

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 27, 2010, 06:09 PM
[quote author=Renegade link=topic=23067.msg210798#msg210798 date=1277674432
For evil winning, "The Empire Strikes Back". Hoth base destroyed. The rebellion routed. Luke gets his ass handed to him by Vader. Good only wins in that it isn't completely destroyed. Still, The Usual Suspects is a much better example of the bad guys winning. [/quote]

Excellent example except for the fact 40hz wanted an example where there wasn't a sequel where the good guys came back from behind and won. So, Return of the Jedi nullifies Empire. Although, Empire is one of the best movies *ever* that ends with the bad guys winning.

Evil kind of wins in a lot of horror movies. Or at least they leave it open for the evil to return in a sequel. Saw. Friday the 13th. A Nightmare on Elm Street. The Evil Dead. etc. etc.

More excellent movies, but 40hz gave himself the 'loophole' of the movies listed having to be *human* evil winning.

Here's another example, 40hz, of a movie where human evil wins & no sequel to bring the bad guy to justice: No Country For Old Men.


[/quote]
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 27, 2010, 06:09 PM
For evil winning, "The Empire Strikes Back". Hoth base destroyed. The rebellion routed. Luke gets his ass handed to him by Vader. Good only wins in that it isn't completely destroyed. Still, The Usual Suspects is a much better example of the bad guys winning.
-Renegade (June 27, 2010, 04:33 PM)

Excellent example except for the fact 40hz wanted an example where there wasn't a sequel where the good guys came back from behind and won. So, Return of the Jedi nullifies Empire. Although, Empire is one of the best movies *ever* that ends with the bad guys winning.

Evil kind of wins in a lot of horror movies. Or at least they leave it open for the evil to return in a sequel. Saw. Friday the 13th. A Nightmare on Elm Street. The Evil Dead. etc. etc.

More excellent movies, but 40hz gave himself the 'loophole' of the movies listed having to be *human* evil winning....AND no sequels where the good guys can come back to attempt to vanquish the bad guy another day.

Here's another example, 40hz, of a movie where human evil wins & no sequel to bring the bad guy to justice: No Country For Old Men.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 27, 2010, 06:15 PM
40hz, here's a double-shot for you!  ;D

Pitch Black...

...a movie where not only the unapologetic psychopathic murderer survives at the end but a child dies in a graphically violent scene by being swarmed by the alien creatures.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 27, 2010, 08:58 PM
One minor point: the human qualification in 'human evil' isn't a loophole. Morality only applies to human beings. You can't apply human morality to non-human entities. The evil wolf is only 'evil' in our eyes because he does us harm. But in a more universal scheme of things, he's only a hunter securing food and protecting his territory. So the wolf is no more immoral for hunting human prey than we are evil for raising cattle and eating hamburger.

Of course to a cow, we are evil in the same sense the big bad wolf is evil to us.

Evil is a big topic. For the purposes of what I'm talking about, Hollywood is only concerned about the evil we do to each other. The cosmic forms of evil are cut more slack because our moral standards do not apply to them.

---------

Re: Usual Suspects.

( One of my all time favs BTW! Great film.  :Thmbsup: )

Close, but no cigar.  :)  

Spoiler
Kaiser Soze sets up the entire scene to kill the one guy who can identify him. He succeeds in getting the Guatamalan informer. Unfortunately, a police sketch artist was able to work up an image based on the description given by a surviving Hungarian gang member who is over in the burn ward. An FBI agent interviews him over the hospitals objections which results in the sketch of Soze. That's how we conclusively know Kaiser Soze is Verbal Kint at the end of the film.

When Verbal says that the greatest lie the Devil ever told was convincing the world he didn't exist, he states what his goal is: to be unidentifiable to the point of where the police doubt he's real.

By the end of the movie, the police absolutely know he does exist - and they finally have his likeness. So despite the fact he escapes at the end, his biggest advantage is now gone. The implication is it will only be a matter of time before he's apprehended now that his cover is blown. And even if he still remains at large, he's lost the biggest advantage he once had - so he failed in his goal.

This is a classic "to be continued" even if a sequel never gets made.

   
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 27, 2010, 09:25 PM
Re: No Country for Old Men.

Can't speak to that since I haven't seen it.

But after careful thought, I do know of one movie where evil does absolutely triumph: Chinatown. I bounced it off a few film buff friends, and they said that AFATK, Chinatown was unique in that respect. The ending was (and remains) controversial. There were major battles between Roman Polanski and Paramount Pictures to change the ending from what Polanski wanted to a more "happy ending" where good triumphed.

The fact that didn't happen contributed greatly to Chinatown's unique position in American film history.

The concluding: Forget it Jake! It's Chinatown. has got to be one of the most chilling lines ever uttered in a movie.  

--------------
UPDATE: see my post further down. This was not the ending that was in the script when they started shooting...

    


  
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 28, 2010, 09:01 AM
Can't say that I agree with you, 40hz regarding Usual Suspects.

Spoiler
He got away unpunished. You specifically asked for movies where the bad guys won. The police left standing with their collective thumbs up their butts qualifies. Sure, the points you made do compromise his position, but it is still a win. As the movie ends, he disappears with enough global resources to never be seen again and the authorities with no leads. None. The authorities know what he may look like, but they don't even have an inkling of a clue as to how to start looking for him. Therefore, it fits the criteria.

Chinatown was going to be another one I was going to mention. I've got a whole list over here if you have the desire. :D

Here's a few more:

The Wicker Man

There Will Be Blood

The Skeleton Key

P.S. And do see No Country For Old Men. The main Bad Guy in that movie takes being bad to a whole new level.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 28, 2010, 09:43 AM
Usual Suspects blew my mind when I first saw it.  I still remember watching it:  i was home from college, and the premium channels (HBO, Cinemax) were having one of those free preview weekends.  It was late, like 2am in the morning.  This movie I'd never heard of came on, usual suspects.  So I was watching it and half falling asleep, but it started getting really interesting.  Then the ending came and i was blown away.  One of the most fun movie experiences ever.  My other top movie experiences were The Game, Jerry Maguire, and Gladiator.  not because of the movies necessarily, but the experience (I have stories for all of them).

I miss the days when going to the movies was really special and fun.  I know I sound one like one of those old geezer back in the day types, but I do miss that.  In college, there were always sneak previews of movies, and for broke college kids, that was really fun.  The anticipation, not knowing what the movie was about AT ALL, all the people...it was good stuff.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 28, 2010, 09:47 AM
I personally didn't find No country for old men all that interesting.  I know I'm one of the few, but hey.  I also found it a little funny that No Country and There Will Be Blood turned into a whole rivalry for no apparent reason.  All of a sudden, you either liked one or the other.  i even wrote an article about it:
http://aram.dcmembers.com/nonsensical/miscellaneous/there-will-be-blood-vs-no-country-for-old-men/
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: higherstate on June 28, 2010, 10:10 AM
One very cool film no sci-fi buff should miss is this relatively low-budget picture:

Avalon-  released in 2001 and directed by Mamoru Oshii, who also was responsible for the great animae classic Ghost in the Shell.
-40hz (June 15, 2010, 10:25 PM)

Sounds great 40hz. I love Asian films, especially the Japanese. If you want originality then look East rather than to Hollywood.

Having said that, anyone remember Critters and The Last Starfighter from the 80's?
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 11:06 AM
@Innuendo

I didn't say bad guys winning was the criteria. I said human evil left triumphant.

There's a subtle but very real difference between someone being bad and someone who is evil.

There's an interesting idea writer Arthur Machen once proposed that true spiritual evil is very rare. Even more rare than genuine saintliness. Because whereas the saint was trying to regain what had been lost in The Fall, the truly evil were attempting to seize something never meant for mankind to have. They were attempting to "take heaven by storm" and in doing so, they repeated the sin which led to the war in heaven and the fall of mankind. This took them beyond the human inheritance of "original sin" (with hope for redemption) and placed them with the "fallen" angels who were damned without hope of salvation. In short, evil is something beyond what mankind should be capable of. Evil is the sin of angels. Human evil was not a part of the plan for creation.

Even if you don't buy into the Christian symbology he uses, you can still get the gist of what he's saying.

Evil is a really really really big deal. Badness is more a major annoyance.

Interesting distinction.    

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 11:35 AM
I miss the days when going to the movies was really special and fun.  I know I sound one like one of those old geezer back in the day types, but I do miss that.  In college, there were always sneak previews of movies, and for broke college kids, that was really fun.  The anticipation, not knowing what the movie was about AT ALL, all the people...it was good stuff.
-superboyac (June 28, 2010, 09:43 AM)

Fortunately, with the advent of big screen TV monitors and home theater systems you can recreate a bit of the theater if your lucky enough to be able to afford it.

Get a Netflix subscription and you're in good shape.

But the one thing you need to do to really make it enjoyable is gather a group of fellow movie buffs and all watch it together. Without a small group in attendence, it won't feel the same. Six is a good number. Big enough to feel like a crowd. Small enough to allow for a single discussion about the movie afterwards.  

Learn how to make real movie popcorn, and have everybody take turns supplying the 'beverages of choice' so one person doesn't go broke hosting if you're doing it regularly. (Good venue for homebrewers to show off their latest creations too!) Watch and enjoy. Just don't be surprised if you see the sun coming up before you're done discussing. Especially if it turned out to be an exceptionally good film like The Usual Suspects. (Breakfast anyone?)

You can even do your own film festivals, hall of fame, etc. Take turns recommending and selecting. Maybe even have the person recommending do a little presentation afterwards about the making of the film, the director, or what have you. Just keep it fun. Movies are supposed to be a form of entertainment.  

And if you don't have a fancy media setup, don't let that stop you. Just invite fewer people and sit closer to your old "tube."  
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: superboyac on June 28, 2010, 12:16 PM
40hz, I love reading what you write...

I like your suggestion.  There's only one individual who I'd want to watch movies with right now in that manner, but maybe we might be able to muster up a couple of more people.  All we would really need is like 3 couples.  I've done things like "movie nights" before, but it's very hard getting a good discussion going, especially if people don't care about the more difficult things to discuss like story, building tension, irony, etc.  Then, you just watch fast and furious and the comments are "well! that was cool!" ok...fascinating.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 12:36 PM
^ I feel your pain. Once you get out of college, those great ad hoc debate and discussion groups seem to disappear from our lives. If we're not careful we end up discussing nothing but our jobs, financial investments, and children. And ten years later we wonder why the new 20-somethings all think we're boring? 

Fortunately, I've been blessed with a few bright friends that still love a good intellectual discussion and are interested in just about anything. Art, movies, string theory, the latest DNA research...bring it up and they're all over it, sharing as much as they know - and eagerly soaking up what they don't. It's great.

Needless to say, I don't have a lot of area friends like that. But at least I have some.  Online gatherings like DC help fill that gap for most of us. But it still can't beat a good F2F conversation IMHO.


Either way, it's usually a smart move to seek out "the community" whenever you can. There's a lot of truth to the notion "We're better together." as the Polyphonic Spree song said.
  
 
:Thmbsup:
 
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 03:39 PM
Addendum:

Regarding Chinatown...

The original screenplay had a different ending. Roman Polanski changed it during the production of the film.

Spoiler
Per Wikipedia:

Evans, the producer, intended the screenplay to have a happy ending with Cross dying and Evelyn Mulwray surviving. Evans and Polanski argued over it, with Polanski insisting on a tragic end. The two parted ways due to the dispute and Polanski wrote the final scene just a few days before it was shot.

See also this link (http://open.salon.com/blog/retrodaddy/2009/09/30/the_ending_roman_polanskis_chinatown_was_supposed_to_have).

In the script by Robert Towne (who also wrote the screenplays for The Last Detail and Shampoo) the monster Noah Cross was killed by his daughter, Evelyn. Evelyn had been raped and made pregnant by her father. In Towne's version, Evelyn killed her father to protect her daughter from the old man's predations.

This is the kind of ending you can imagine Raymond Chandler writing. Evelyn might die along with her father, the only way to put an end to his evil, but there would be some hope, with Evelyn's daughter having a chance at salvation.

Polanski changed Robert Towne's ending to let Noah Cross destroy Evelyn and take possession of his grand-daughter as his new slave. Why did Cross do this? Because he could. Because he was rich and politically powerful and normal human beings didn't matter next to his whims.



So I guess it's once again correct to say that Hollywood didn't OK Polanski's ending when it put the script into production. It was only when nearing completion that the ending got changed to what eventually became the released version.

Ok...I'm gonna go back to my earlier assertion that Hollywood doesn't greenlight films where human evil absolutely triumphs over good.

That's my story - and I'm sticking to it!  :Thmbsup:

(At least until I find the time to watch No Country for Old Men, There Will be Blood, Skeleton Key and re-watch Wicker Man to see if it happened in any of those. Thx Innuendo!  :Thmbsup: ;D)

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 4wd on June 28, 2010, 06:42 PM
The Wicker Man

The Skeleton Key
-Innuendo (June 28, 2010, 09:01 AM)

Exactly two that I was going to mention, I was also going to mention Burnt Offerings because I seem to remember an ending similar to Skeleton Key but I wanted to review it first, (then again maybe it's ending is 'too' supernatural to be classed as human.)

I wouldn't necessarily have classed the ending in No Country For Old Men as evil/bad guy winning because it's left too open, it's not final.  Hollywood could go on to make 13+ sequels as usual.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Shades on June 28, 2010, 07:04 PM
@40Hz:
Can you tell me how 'No country for old men' ends? I went to the theater to see it and was send out because I was snoring too loud. Rented it twice but I cannot get past the halfway point, before falling asleep. With 'There Will be Blood' I fell only asleep once.

Now I do not consider myself a movie-buff or average joe public. The first section I always look for in a videostore is the alternative movie section, because I enjoy well and/or diversely written stories. But I truly do not understand why both these movies were so highly regarded.

@Innuendo:
Which 'Wicker man' do you mean?
The most recent one with Nicolas Cage is hardly worth the trouble. Then again, I am not impressed by the latest works of N.C. in the first place. The first release was way more disturbing to me.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 4wd on June 28, 2010, 07:36 PM
@Innuendo:
Which 'Wicker man' do you mean?
The most recent one with Nicolas Cage is hardly worth the trouble. Then again, I am not impressed by the latest works of N.C. in the first place. The first release was way more disturbing to me.
-Shades (June 28, 2010, 07:04 PM)

It would have to be the first, as you have said, the remake was crap.

Then again, 40Hz can always use the 'out' that The Wicker Man (1973) was not a production of Hollywood and therefore not bound by their ridiculous taboos  ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 10:17 PM
@Shades -

re: No Country for Old Men

Can't say or tell you anything about it. As I said, I haven't seen it yet.  ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on June 28, 2010, 10:48 PM
@4wd -

re: 40hz's "out"

I think some if you might be misunderstanding my intentions when I speak about Hollywood taboos.

I'm not trying to prove a point about what makes a good or bad movie. Nor am I making a statement about the superiority or inferiority of the mainstream American movie industry.

When I mentioned these "no go" story elements, it was in the context of trying to account for the general lack of originality and the reluctance on the part of the industry to take chances when it came to movie plots. And the reason for this reluctance is twofold: the desire not to offend mainstream public sentiments (i.e. money) and fear of censure by a small but highly vocal 'moral' and conservative collective (i.e. money).

In a nutshell, if it's something that will impact the box office, or draw the public wrath of legislators or the religious, it's not going to be considered for production until those concerns can be minimized. Hollywood is mainly looking to make "4-quadrant" type 'perennial hit' movies. They're rarely looking to make great ones.

Again it's no knock from me. It's just how they perceive their business environment. And American moviemaking is a business.

I didn't come up with these taboos on my own. Many screenwriting books and seminars either hint at or come right out and talk about the issue of "unacceptable" topics. It comes as a shock to many hopeful writers that American movie studios are not all that liberal or open to radical or disturbing ideas for movies - even though virtually all of them would deny it if asked.  

This is one of the reasons why some truly great books get bad screen adaptations. Many of the wild and dangerously thought provoking elements that made the book so great won't be allowed in the screenplay.

Simple reality of the trade: Wanna sell your script to a US studio? Avoid certain topics and images.   8)


 
    
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 29, 2010, 07:19 AM
I wouldn't necessarily have classed the ending in No Country For Old Men as evil/bad guy winning because it's left too open, it's not final.  Hollywood could go on to make 13+ sequels as usual.
-4wd (June 28, 2010, 06:42 PM)

Not sure what you mean....it seemed pretty final to me.

Spoiler
The bad guy has gone on a spree killing everyone who has ever come into contact with the money. He has the money and no one knows where he is. The only law enforcement officer who was pursuing him in earnest is now back at home retired from the chase & beaten. Most likely he knows that the bad guy may very well come after him as well with a good chance of him dying.

Not much chance of a sequel, either, as the bad guy is a ghost. He was only seen when he needed to be seen in order to get what he wanted. At the end of the movie he had what he wanted & the only one who really lived to tell the tale was Tommy Lee Jones & again, who knows how long he'll remain alive.

Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on June 29, 2010, 07:22 AM
Can you tell me how 'No country for old men' ends? I went to the theater to see it and was send out because I was snoring too loud. Rented it twice but I cannot get past the halfway point, before falling asleep. With 'There Will be Blood' I fell only asleep once.
-Shades (June 28, 2010, 07:04 PM)

See my spoiler above for No Country For Old Men, but I agree....both that and There Will Be Blood were way longer than they needed to be....and neither one had a real, proper ending, IMHO.

The most recent one with Nicolas Cage is hardly worth the trouble. Then again, I am not impressed by the latest works of N.C. in the first place. The first release was way more disturbing to me.

Yes, I was referring to the original, but even the remake has the bad guys winning. I don't know what to think about Cage. He was making some pretty good movies there for awhile. Oh well, at least he's off making Disney movies now so I won't have to put up with him anymore. :)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 4wd on June 30, 2010, 06:41 PM
Let's also not forget Howard Hawks original screen adaptation of by John W. Campbell, Jr.'s 1938 sci-fi novella Who Goes There.

...

It's a good enough story that his film was remade two additional times. Carpenter's 1981 version (relocated from the North Pole to Antarctica) kept the original vibe and resulted in that rarest of all Hollywood creatures: a remake that compared favorably with an original. The 1998 edition was long on special effects and name actors, but somehow didn't quite capture the eerie feelings of isolation and weirdness that the previous two versions produced. Maybe this is just one of those pictures that benefits from slightly stilted dialog, lesser acting talent, and B&W photography.
-40hz (June 15, 2010, 02:04 PM)

Going back to one of the earlier posts, Carpenter's 'The Thing' is one of my all time favourite films, (right up there with Alien), but I hadn't heard of a remake in 1998.

Can you give me link in IMDB to it please?

Also, get ready for The Thing (2011) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0905372/) - I just hope it turns out better than the plot summary.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 30, 2010, 06:55 PM
I just hope it turns out better than the plot summary.
-4wd (June 30, 2010, 06:41 PM)

That shouldn't be too hard.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 4wd on June 30, 2010, 08:34 PM
I just hope it turns out better than the plot summary.
-4wd (June 30, 2010, 06:41 PM)

That shouldn't be too hard.
-Deozaan (June 30, 2010, 06:55 PM)

I'd almost believe you if it wasn't for the fact I've seen plot summaries that read better than the movie :P
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on June 30, 2010, 08:35 PM
I just hope it turns out better than the plot summary.
-4wd (June 30, 2010, 06:41 PM)
That shouldn't be too hard.
-Deozaan (June 30, 2010, 06:55 PM)
I'd almost believe you if it wasn't for the fact I've seen plot summaries that read better than the movie :P
-4wd (June 30, 2010, 08:34 PM)

That wasn't a guarantee. I just said it shouldn't be too hard. Especially considering how bland the plot summary is for the movie on IMDB at this moment. ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: JavaJones on July 01, 2010, 12:57 AM
What about Silence of the Lambs?

Spoiler
Lecter kills a bunch of people, escapes, gets off scott-free, gets to eat Chilton the prison Dr. who he hated. Forget about the sequel, it's irrelevant, no one knew they'd make one at the time. Sure Clarice lives too, and they kill the "real" bad guy Buffalo Bill, but Lecter kills innocents too, just because the movie paints him as some kind of odd anti-hero doesn't mean he's not real, true human evil...


- Oshyan
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on July 01, 2010, 06:32 PM
OK, I do know one Hollywood movie where human evil triumphs in no uncertain terms at the end of the picture:

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In this case, human evil extends far beyond the individual to become manifest in the whole of society.

Human evil can't score a bigger win than that.  :'(

↓ This will be me the day that scenario becomes true:

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Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: f0dder on July 01, 2010, 11:39 PM
In this case, human evil extends far beyond the individual to become manifest in the whole of society.
-40hz (July 01, 2010, 06:32 PM)
Oh, but it's not evil, you know - it's the greatest good for the greatest number!
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on July 02, 2010, 01:13 AM
Speaking of which, is that movie (1984) any good? Or are there any good film adaptations of the book?

While I'm at it, are there any good movies based on the Cthulhu mythos that are also relatively clean? As in rated PG-13 or below? I don't mind violence and gore so much (to a point) but I find sex and profanity in films to often be just unnecessary and detrimental.

And to further narrow the options, are any of them available on Netflix's Instant Watch in the USA? (I'm not sure if Netflix is international.)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mwb1100 on July 02, 2010, 01:49 AM
Speaking of which, is that movie (1984) any good? Or are there any good film adaptations of the book?
-Deozaan (July 02, 2010, 01:13 AM)
I recently watched the John Hurt version of the movie, "Nineteen Eighty-Four", and I think it's good (depressing, but then again so is the source material).  I think that it follows the book pretty faithfully, but it's been a long time since i read the book, so I might be off base there. It is quite bleak. Note that (since you mentioned PG-13 later in your post), the movie does have R-rated nudity and sex.

The only other movie version of 1984 that I'm aware of is one made in 1956 starring Edmond O'Brien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(1956_film)).  I watched it many many years ago in college, and don't remember too much about it.  For some reason it's not readily available on DVD, but you can search around for bootlegs.

While I'm at it, are there any good movies based on the Cthulhu mythos that are also relatively clean?
-Deozaan (July 02, 2010, 01:13 AM)

There's a really good DVD called "Call of Cthulhu" (http://www.amazon.com/Call-Cthulhu-Celebrated-Story-Lovecraft/dp/B000BQTC98/).  It was made by a more-or-less amateur group of Lovecraft fanatics (I don't mean amateur in an insulting way, but they're not Hollywood pros - which I think was an advantage in this case).

Note: it's a silent film! I think they did this both for artistic value and atmosphere with probably some budget/technical reasons as well. Anyway - it works really well to give it a Lovecraftian feel.

I think it's a fantastic film - I think the encounter on Cthulhu's island is nicely staged to give it a feel of 'unworldly dimensions'.  If you've seen "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" and liked what was done there with the angles and perspectives of the sets you might have an idea of what I mean.

It's not rated, but the closest to anything racy in the movie is a dance ritual by a bunch of cultists wearing loincloths.

No idea if it's on Netflix's Instant Watch.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Deozaan on July 02, 2010, 09:42 PM
Wow, it's even Black & White (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478988/)?

And it looks like the same people are making The Whisperer in the Darkness (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1498878/), which I just read the other day. Another Black & White.

When referring to The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, are you referring to the remake (2005) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441741/) or the original (1920) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0010323/)? I haven't seen either of them, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on July 02, 2010, 11:58 PM
+1 on Call of Cthullu.

I was incredibly impressed by the production quality and faithfulness of the script to the original story. I personally felt its being shot in an antiqued-look B&W added to the vintage vibe of the movie. But I don't expect everyone will agree with me on that point. Probably a good idea to watch the trailer here (http://www.cthulhulives.org/cocmovie/trailer.html) to see if the "look" works for you before you purchase.

The Whisperer in the Darkness is one of Lovecraft's better stories and the  H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society's (http://www.cthulhulives.org/toc.html) newest adaptation also looks good.


...Even now I absolutely refused to believe what he implied about the constitution of ultimate infinity, the juxtaposition of dimensions, and the frightful position of our known cosmos of space and time in the unending chain of linked cosmos-atoms which makes up the immediate super-cosmos of curves, angles, and material and semi-material electronic organisation.

Never was a sane man more dangerously close to the arcana of basic entity--never was an organic brain nearer to utter annihilation in the chaos that transcends form and force and symmetry. I learned whence Cthulhu first came, and why half the great temporary stars of history had flared forth. I guessed--from hints which made even my informant pause timidly--the secret behind the Magellanic Clouds and globular nebulae, and the black truth veiled by the immemorial allegory of Tao. The nature of the Doels was plainly revealed, and I was told the essence (though not the source) of the Hounds of Tindalos. The legend of Yig, Father of Serpents, remained figurative no longer, and I started with loathing when told of the monstrous nuclear chaos beyond angled space which the Necronomicon had mercifully cloaked under the name of Azathoth. It was shocking to have the foulest nightmares of secret myth cleared up in concrete terms whose stark, morbid hatefulness exceeded the boldest hints of ancient and mediaeval mystics... -Whisperer in the Darkness

They're blogging it here (http://www.cthulhulives.org/Whisperer/twid-blog.html) and have a trailer for it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5gWGfnK5M&feature=player_embedded#at=71).

After watching the trailer, all I can say is: I want it!  :Thmbsup:

----------

Outside of these two films, there's not much worth seeing that purports to be based on Lovecraft's works. Most are so-so horror flicks that use some Lovecraftian terminology or characters in an attempt to make things seem like more than they are. Most aren't worth the film they're printed on.

Of all of the Lovecraft influenced films out there, about the only one really worth watching is an oddball John Carpenter effort entitled In the Mouth of Madness (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113409/)

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The efficient and skeptical freelance insurance investigator John Trent is hired by the publisher Jackson Harglow to find where the famous writer Sutter Cane might be. After writing a series of best-sellers in the horror genre, affecting the reason and causing disorientation, memory loss, and paranoia in readers, Sutter has simply vanished near the release of his new novel, "Horror in Hobb's End." There is mass hysteria of his anxious fans waiting for the new release, and John believes that his disappearance is a marketing strategy. John follows his instincts and travels with Cane's editor, Linda Styles, to New Hampshire, seeking for the apparently fictional town of Hobb's End...John discloses that Sutter Cane has unleashed a powerful evil force in the black church of the mysterious town, and his twisted imagination is changing the reality and perception of those who read his novels.

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High production values, a fairly good plot, and a few "name" cast members ( Sam Neill, Charlton Heston, Julie Carmen) distinguish it from most of what's out there.

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There's a few very effective scenes and concepts found in the picture that will earn smiles from Lovecraft fans. The exterior shooting for the "Black Church" is particularly well done. Other parts of the movie are a little hokey however. And some of the "special effects" (especially those in one important pre-climax scene) are more laughable than scary. Fortunately, they're not so bad that they'll seriously detract from most people's overall enjoyment of the picture. Amazon has it for $12 on DVD and it's also available from NetFlix.

----------
Note: This movie is not based on any specific Lovecraft story, but it still borrows extensively from his works. Serious HPL fans are divided on this picture. If you're big on story fidelity, stick to Call of Cthullu and The Whisperer in the Darkness. But if you're more the type of fan who simply enjoys seeing Lovecraftian elements show up on screen, it's well worth a watch.

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 ;)
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mwb1100 on July 03, 2010, 01:27 AM
When referring to The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, are you referring to the remake (2005) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441741/) or the original (1920) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0010323/)?
-Deozaan (July 02, 2010, 09:42 PM)

The 1920 original - I haven't seen the remake.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: mwb1100 on July 03, 2010, 01:36 AM
The Whisperer in the Darkness[/i] is one of Lovecraft's better stories and the  H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society's (http://www.cthulhulives.org/toc.html) newest adaptation also looks good.
-40hz (July 02, 2010, 11:58 PM)

Thanks for the heads up - I hadn't heard about this.

I also agree that "In the Mouth of Madness" is a pretty good Lovecraftian-themed film.  I also liked "From Beyond" (http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Unrated-Directors-Cut/dp/B000RPCK2O) - but that's definitely **not** even close to being a PG-13 flick.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: 40hz on July 03, 2010, 01:48 PM
I also liked "From Beyond" (http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Unrated-Directors-Cut/dp/B000RPCK2O) - but that's definitely **not** even close to being a PG-13 flick.
-mwb1100 (July 03, 2010, 01:36 AM)

Um, no. Not by a long shot, although it's still considerably cleaner than many budget horror flicks.

----------

To get away for H.P. Lovecraft for a moment, there's an in-production indie sci-fi movie from Finland that looks promising. It's a riff on some of those crackpot stories you see on the web that maintain there are secret Nazi military bases which have been on the dark side of the moon since the 1940s.

It's almost like Steampunk meets alternate military history.  :Thmbsup:

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Some people are already calling this subgenre Dieselpunk.

Dieselpunk would cover the time period between 1918 and 1945 or thereabouts. The primary difference would be that the Dieselpunk era has electricity, more advanced industrial sciences, and mass production capabilities. First generation fission weapons are also a possibility in this timeframe.

Many moons ago I remember reading in one of those UFO conspiracy paperbacks about something called Operation Blindspot. According to the story, the Nazis once operated advanced secret bases in the Antarctic with the intent of developing technologies for space travel and moon colonization. It was called Operation Blindspot because it was meant to be utterly secret, and act as an emergency fallback in case the war didn't go the way the Third Reich planned. The idea was to conduct secret moon launches from the most remote part of the world in order to keep their activities completely hidden from hostile observers. The moon's dark side was chosen for the location of the moon base for the same reason. Once established, Blindspot would rebuild the Nazi war machine, repopulate its SS ranks - and when the time was right - this new spacefaring Fourth Reich would begin its conquest of the planet Earth.

Supposedly, Operation Blindspot was successful and it's only a matter of time before their nuclear weaponized armada shows up in our skies.

I guess somebody else read that same whacked-out book.   ;D

Here's the plot synopsis from the Iron Sky website (http://www.ironsky.net/site/):

Towards the end of World War II the staff of SS officer Hans Kammler made a significant breakthrough in anti-gravity.

From a secret base built in the Antarctic, the first Nazi spaceships were launched in late ‘45 to found the military base Schwarze Sonne (Black Sun) on the dark side of the Moon. This base was to build a powerful invasion fleet and return to take over the Earth once the time was right.

Now it’s 2018, the Nazi invasion is on its way and the world is goose-stepping towards its doom.

If the two trailers are anything to go by, the visuals should be quite impressive. But I'm not 100% sure about what they're up to with the script. The official website bills it as a "comedy" which seems surprising considering how dark the subject matter is.

Either way, it should be out sometime in 2011 if things stay on course. They're pursuing fan financing (via a humorous Buy War Bonds! campaign) so it may take longer than expected to complete.

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I'm guessing that when you're making a film revolving around subjects which still make a lot of people very uneasy (even if it is fiction) it's a lot more 'challenging' to secure mainstream financing.

Anyway, here's some stills:

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Animated movie poster link is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYQXW4g9l0w&feature=player_embedded).

Link to Teaser #1 here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80&feature=player_embedded).

Link to Teaser #2 here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeAfoiN5SDw&feature=player_embedded).

The Iron Sky Official Website (http://www.ironsky.net/site/) can be found here (http://www.ironsky.net/site/).

Be interesting to see how it plays out if they ever get it finished.



Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Renegade on July 03, 2010, 02:50 PM
It's hard not to love Lovecraft~!

A personal favorite of mine is "Memory (http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/m.asp)":

Memory
By H. P. Lovecraft

------=-O-=------
In the valley of Nis the accursed waning moon shines thinly, tearing a path for its light with feeble horns through the lethal foliage of a great upas-tree. And within the depths of the valley, where the light reaches not, move forms not meet to be beheld. Rank is the herbage on each slope, where evil vines and creeping plants crawl amidst the stones of ruined palaces, twining tightly about broken columns and strange monoliths, and heaving up marble pavements laid by forgotten hands. And in trees that grow gigantic in crumbling courtyards leap little apes, while in and out of deep treasure-vaults writhe poison serpents and scaly things without a name.

      Vast are the stones which sleep beneath coverlets of dank moss, and mighty were the walls from which they fell. For all time did their builders erect them, and in sooth they yet serve nobly, for beneath them the grey toad makes his habitation.

      At the very bottom of the valley lies the river Than, whose waters are slimy and filled with weeds. From hidden springs it rises, and to subterranean grottoes it flows, so that the Daemon of the Valley knows not why its waters are red, nor whither they are bound.

      The Genie that haunts the moonbeams spake to the Daemon of the Valley, saying, “I am old, and forget much. Tell me the deeds and aspect and name of them who built these things of stone.” And the Daemon replied, “I am Memory, and am wise in lore of the past, but I too am old. These beings were like the waters of the river Than, not to be understood. Their deeds I recall not, for they were but of the moment. Their aspect I recall dimly, for it was like to that of the little apes in the trees. Their name I recall clearly, for it rhymed with that of the river. These beings of yesterday were called Man.”

      So the Genie flew back to the thin horned moon, and the Daemon looked intently at a little ape in a tree that grew in a crumbling courtyard.

It's prose, but it reads like poetry.

I also love August Derleth (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/August_Derleth). There are many others that have picked up the torch to carry on foretelling the doom of mankind with the rise of things best left unspoken, e.g. Robert Bloch.
Title: Re: 20 years later, the movie "Total Recall" still kicks butt
Post by: Innuendo on July 05, 2010, 11:29 AM
Lovecraft was a genius. If you can get past his writing style you'll wonder what people see in Stephen King and Clive Barker. The man created from scratch a mythos and religion so vast & rich in detail that it actually spawned the real-world literary publication of a book that was created in Lovecraft's head & purely imaginary.

Oh, almost forgot....go, Miskatonic U!!!