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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Renegade on August 30, 2013, 11:22 PM

Title: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on August 30, 2013, 11:22 PM
ORIGINAL POST



I saw a relatively innocuous line in a news story, but it's implications are serious.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/30/uk_asks_new_york_times_to_destroy_edward_snowden_documents.html

She said that she had been advised that the hard drive contains “approximately 58,000 U.K. documents which are highly classified in nature, to the highest level.”

Goode said the process to decode the material was complex and that “so far only 75 documents have been reconstructed since the property was initially received.”

It's odd that they used the word "reconstructed", but not surprising as simply using the correct terminology, "cracked" or "decrypted", would just be, well, too truthful. (Never mind "received" being substituted for "stolen"...)

Now, given that Edward Snowden knows what he's doing, this should be very frightening for a lot of people, if anyone is paying attention, which I doubt.



UPDATES & SUMMARIES FOR LINKS

ProPublica
 - NSA undermines most used & common cryptographic standards - TLS/SSL, HTTPS, VPN, SSH, IPSec, encrypted chat/VoIP all threatened.
http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg336930#msg336930

ProPublica
 - BULLRUN docs.
http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/784284-bullrun-briefing-sheet-from-gchq.html

Techdirt
 - YOU are the enemy.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130905/15531224420/nsa-gchq-admit-that-enemy-is-public.shtml
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg336971#msg336971

Popehat
 - "I am the other" - An essay/commentary.
http://www.popehat.com/2013/09/06/nsa-codebreaking-i-am-the-other/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Popehat+%28Popehat%29

Dilbert
 - Cartoon commentary.
http://www.dilbert.com/2013-09-06/
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg337025#msg337025

Matthew Green (Cryptographer)
 - Commentary on the situation being worse than bad.
http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg337532#msg337532

Boiling Frogs Post
 - ProPublica funding sources and salaries are fishy.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/08/propublica-exposed-a-pseudo-alternative-with-26-million-dollars-in-secret-mega-donors-funding/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/08/updated-bfp-report-propublica-threatens-bfp-demands-retraction-provides-names-partners-exposes-itself-further/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/09/propublica-expose-part-3-wall-street-men-set-up-alternative-news-shop-collect-wall-street-salaries/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/10/bfp-propublica-report-part-4-an-alternative-media-shop-with-mainstream-media-advisors/
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg337538#msg337538

National Public Radio
- Interview with Barton Geller (Washington Post reporter). (MP3 with show highlights in text)
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/11/221359323/reporter-had-to-decide-if-snowden-leaks-were-the-real-thing
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg337754#msg337754

Falkvinge
- Certificate based security is dead - goodbye SSL
http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/12/the-nsa-and-u-s-congress-has-destroyed-ssl-we-must-rebuild-web-security-from-the-ground-up/
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35970.msg337960#msg337960

Techdirt
- NSA running MITM attacks against Google servers
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130910/10470024468/flying-pig-nsa-is-running-man-middle-attacks-imitating-googles-servers.shtml

IETF
- Kleptography: weakening security on purpose
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-req/?include_text=1


More nightmares to follow...
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: kyrathaba on August 31, 2013, 03:31 PM
There can be no realistic expectation of privacy in today's world. A longing for it, perhaps, but not a reasonable expectation of it.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: barney on August 31, 2013, 03:46 PM
There can be no realistic expectation of privacy in today's world. A longing for it, perhaps, but not a reasonable expectation of it.

In truth, there's been no reasonable expectation of privacy since the sixties.  At least, not to my mind.  (Yeah, I'm paranoid ... my concern is whether I'm paranoid enough.)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: TaoPhoenix on August 31, 2013, 04:40 PM

But up until 9-11 at least as a pasty white guy the feds stayed out of my way. You know if you did anything seriously stupid of course you risked getting in trouble, but the silly stuff was viewed as silly and treated as such, maybe with a warning from a cop that "hey, ya know, putting chewing gum in a guy's exhaust pipe could cause some nasty problems, so don't do it, mmkay?"

But now if you teach someone to beat a polygraph they want to send you to *jail*!!???

Never mind that several TV episodes go into it! I think I can recall at least three shows - Chuck, Lie To Me, and Alias that had scenes about that!

Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 06, 2013, 03:17 AM
TLS/SSL, HTTPS, VPN, SSH, IPSec encrypted chat/VoIP...

Aaaannnd, it's gone!

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption

The National Security Agency is winning its long-running secret war on encryption, using supercomputers, technical trickery, court orders and behind-the-scenes persuasion to undermine the major tools protecting the privacy of everyday communications in the Internet age, according to newly disclosed documents.

The agency has circumvented or cracked much of the encryption, or digital scrambling, that guards global commerce and banking systems, protects sensitive data like trade secrets and medical records, and automatically secures the e-mails, Web searches, Internet chats and phone calls of Americans and others around the world, the documents show.

More at the link.

BULLRUN docs:

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/784284-bullrun-briefing-sheet-from-gchq.html
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Stoic Joker on September 06, 2013, 06:43 AM
Sometimes I really hate being right.  :(
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: rgdot on September 06, 2013, 08:19 AM
Okay I will say this and I fully expect it to be ignored or at least be called 'nonsense' ... that's fine, it really is, because it's not like I am sure what it means myself.

Very briefly and without comment:

Every other article about NSA and privacy issues has a line like 'restricted to those cleared' yet Snowden and whoever else were just able to look at it, walk out with it and reveal it.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 06, 2013, 08:32 AM
Every other article about NSA and privacy issues has a line like 'restricted to those cleared' yet Snowden and whoever else were just able to look at it, walk out with it and reveal it.

That's one of the perks when you have sysadmin privileges. It's good to be root.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: nosh on September 06, 2013, 08:33 AM
State of the art privacy services... for those willing to pay.

Spoiler
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Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 4wd on September 06, 2013, 08:46 AM
And the NSA's decryption method for that:

Spoiler
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Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: nosh on September 06, 2013, 08:50 AM
Hahaha! *shocker* :P
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: rgdot on September 06, 2013, 09:12 AM
Every other article about NSA and privacy issues has a line like 'restricted to those cleared' yet Snowden and whoever else were just able to look at it, walk out with it and reveal it.

That's one of the perks when you have sysadmin privileges. It's good to be root.

A "NSA contractor" in this case ... every post and article is convincing more that something else is going on beyond (I am not saying it's not super bad or evil) what is being simply released by a contractor or soldier (a private)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 06, 2013, 10:15 AM
^I don't think it's a matter of our government intel community and the Executive Branch "going beyond" anything any more. I think it's reached the point where we're now in the first phase of an undeclared and ongoing war against the people of the United States by a relatively small cabal within our own government.

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From Techdirt (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130905/15531224420/nsa-gchq-admit-that-enemy-is-public.shtml)


NSA, GCHQ Admit That The Public Is The Enemy
from the civil-war dept


Yet another point on the latest NSA/GCHQ revelations concerning backdoors into all sorts of commercial encryption tools, buried within the stories is the pretty clear admission that the NSA and GCHQ views the public as the enemy. First, as Marcy Wheeler points out, all of the programs are named after civil war battles in which the same country's own citizens were seen as the enemy:

   The full extent of the N.S.A.’s decoding capabilities is known only to a limited group of top analysts from the so-called Five Eyes: the N.S.A. and its counterparts in Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Only they are cleared for the Bullrun program, the successor to one called Manassas — both names of American Civil War battles. A parallel GCHQ counterencryption program is called Edgehill, named for the first battle of the English Civil War of the 17th century.

    Unlike some classified information that can be parceled out on a strict “need to know” basis, one document makes clear that with Bullrun, “there will be NO ‘need to know.’ ”


But it actually goes even further than that. As the Guardian report notes, in one of the documents, the public is flat out named as the "adversary."

   Among other things, the program is designed to "insert vulnerabilities into commercial encryption systems". These would be known to the NSA, but to no one else, including ordinary customers, who are tellingly referred to in the document as "adversaries".

Kind of says it all, doesn't it? For all the bullshit coming out of the administration and the defenders of this program that they're about protecting the safety of Americans, that's clearly not the overall intent. It's to compromise the privacy of everyone.

 :tellme:

And to think we were so worried about those little drone planes!
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:P
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: rgdot on September 06, 2013, 10:45 AM
I meant "something else we are not seeing" or "we don't know". A program so secretive has so much details available to supposedly outside contractor and relatively low ranking soldier and not only that they got those details out too.
I don't agree that this can simply be a case of somebody heroic having root access, sees the info and slowly walks out with them. It's as if in our analysis of this situation we are subconsciously influenced by Hollywood plots.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 06, 2013, 10:54 AM
It's as if in our analysis of this situation we are subconsciously influenced by Hollywood plots.

Yeah, don't go down that road. It leads to the basement. I've talked about that elsewhere.

^I don't think it's a matter of our government intel community and the Executive Branch "going beyond" anything any more. I think it's reached the point where we're now in the first phase of an undeclared and ongoing war against the people of the United States by a relatively small cabal within our own government.

BINGO!

YOU are the enemy.

No further comment on any of the above because it's just too bloody obvious. (And I don't want this to get kicked to the basement.)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: rgdot on September 06, 2013, 11:02 AM
Me enemy? Such a nice guy as me?   :P

Won't comment any more, for reasons Renegade mentioned.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Carol Haynes on September 06, 2013, 11:15 AM
I am the enemy and I am really pissed ...

Democracy - F****

As I UK citizen I also find it amusing that apparently GCHQ have a similar project (though given the UK don't seem to be able to set up any government IT systems that aren't obsolete before they get them working I am not losing any sleep). Also we don't have a constitution .... doesn't the US have some sort of paper and isn't there some sort of vague provision in there for an individuals right to a private life?
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Stoic Joker on September 06, 2013, 01:00 PM
doesn't the US have some sort of paper and isn't there some sort of vague provision in there for an individuals right to a private life?

While this was for some time a popularly held belief, it is no longer possible to confirm existence of said verbiage as that section was rendered illegible when someone wiped their ass with said document. Hence the prevailing wisdom of our time now holds this as a myth.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 06, 2013, 01:02 PM
Ken White weighed-in over at his Popehat blog with his usual style with a piece titled: NSA Codebreaking: I Am The Other. (http://www.popehat.com/2013/09/06/nsa-codebreaking-i-am-the-other/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Popehat+%28Popehat%29)

I am The Other.

No, not from Game of Thrones.

I mean I am the "other" contemptuously categorized by my government, a vast category of people with an interest in using encrypted communications to thwart my government's attempt to spy on me.

Well worth reading in full. :Thmbsup:

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Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 06, 2013, 01:14 PM
doesn't the US have some sort of paper and isn't there some sort of vague provision in there for an individuals right to a private life?

While this was for some time a popularly held belief, it is no longer possible to confirm existence of said verbiage as that section was rendered illegible when someone wiped their ass with said document. Hence the prevailing wisdom of our time now holds this as a myth.

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: oblivion on September 06, 2013, 03:07 PM
apparently GCHQ have a similar project (though given the UK don't seem to be able to set up any government IT systems that aren't obsolete before they get them working I am not losing any sleep).

That's mostly because most of the operational requirements are written by people who (a) are basically naive about what computer systems are capable of, and (b) are desperate to believe any line of BS that a salesman trots out. We'd write them ourselves, I suspect, if it weren't for the fact that real terms investment in the public sector keeps getting p*ssed up the wall by the same people responsible for (a) and (b) above.

Consider: the (UK) NHS National Programme for IT pumped several billion into a series of projects that were defined in terms of what was on the relevant wish lists at the time, not in terms of what was technically achievable. At least one of the systems procured under it went live before agreement about the dataset it was intended to manage and distribute was even agreed. It still works like it's broken and its data -- which should be the freshest, most up-to-date available -- is often inaccurate and sometimes dangerously so.

The UK paid a small fortune for systems that were not fit for purpose, in many cases never went live but somehow the suppliers got paid anyway. That's what we get for putting bloody old Etonians and Arts graduates in charge of Complicated Things. [/rant]

Still, the upside of the money wasted on NPfIT is probably that it couldn't be given to GCHQ instead. ;)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: xtabber on September 06, 2013, 06:22 PM
Today's Dilbert (http://www.dilbert.com/2013-09-06/) captures the other side of this, namely what makes anyone think that the NSA is going to be particularly adept at keeping the data they have collected away from others who might want access and be clever (or powerful) enough to get it.

If Snowden had been a mole, he would have spent his time quietly building backdoors into the NSA's systems rather than blowing the whistle. If he could get away with what he did, how many others could have, and how much more could they have gotten if they had greater resources?

I'd say the most positive aspect of this whole affair is that it should lead to big improvements in encryption in the future.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Carol Haynes on September 06, 2013, 06:44 PM
I'd say the most positive aspect of this whole affair is that it should lead to big improvements in encryption in the future.

Trouble is things will get tougher but no system is unbreakable - just look at all the unbreakable codes in history!

OK you will need machines to do the breaking, and if quantum encryption ever happens it is going to be exponentially harder to crack - but what's the bet that long before it gets too hard to crack in a reasonable time scale laws will be passed to prevent 'too difficult' encryption being used or forced to include a 'security' backdoor.

The trouble is the US wields too much power and the powers that be just aren't that bright and so are easily manipulated. The rest of the world is just scared of what the US might do next. The 'special relationship' enjoyed (until recently) by the UK is truly Etonian in nature (if you take my meaning - if not someone else can post a graphic image).
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: xtabber on September 11, 2013, 07:51 AM
Matthew Green is a cryptography researcher at Johns Hopkins University. His blog post On the NSA (http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html) was taken down by the university, then restored, with only an image of the official NSA logo deleted, after the initial removal caused an uproar in some circles.

Green provides a useful perspective on the NSA's activities in subverting encryption, from someone who really does understand the topic, about what MAY (remember - that information is classified) have happened and what it would mean if it in fact HAS happened.


Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 11, 2013, 08:27 AM
Matthew Green is a cryptography researcher at Johns Hopkins University. His blog post On the NSA (http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html) was taken down by the university, then restored, with only an image of the official NSA logo deleted, after the initial removal caused an uproar in some circles.

Green provides a useful perspective on the NSA's activities in subverting encryption, from someone who really does understand the topic, about what MAY (remember - that information is classified) have happened and what it would mean if it in fact HAS happened.

That was a good article. And not too long either! :)

I've been wondering about this:

Which means there's a circumstantial case that the NSA and GCHQ are either directly accessing Certificate Authority keys** or else actively stealing keys from US providers, possibly (or probably) without executives' knowledge.

A very worthwhile read.
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 11, 2013, 08:44 AM
^^ Just got through the comments. Found this:

http://www.blacklistednews.com/ProPublica_Exposed%3A_A_Pseudo_Alternative_with_%2426_Million_Dollars_in_Secret_Mega-Donors_Funding/28724/0/38/38/Y/M.html

You guessed it. More bad news.

Originals and more here:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/08/propublica-exposed-a-pseudo-alternative-with-26-million-dollars-in-secret-mega-donors-funding/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/08/updated-bfp-report-propublica-threatens-bfp-demands-retraction-provides-names-partners-exposes-itself-further/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/09/propublica-expose-part-3-wall-street-men-set-up-alternative-news-shop-collect-wall-street-salaries/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/09/10/bfp-propublica-report-part-4-an-alternative-media-shop-with-mainstream-media-advisors/

EDIT: I read through those. It's so much worse. Just so much worse... I don't even want to try to explain or even think about it. Mind-bogglingly worse...
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Tuxman on September 11, 2013, 09:07 AM
The interesting part of the encryption thingy is that it affects Linux users too.  :P

GnuPG should be safe, unlike "online" encryption, right?
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 11, 2013, 09:11 AM
Matthew Green is a cryptography researcher at Johns Hopkins University. His blog post On the NSA (http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html) was taken down by the university, then restored, with only an image of the official NSA logo deleted, after the initial removal caused an uproar in some circles.

Green provides a useful perspective on the NSA's activities in subverting encryption, from someone who really does understand the topic, about what MAY (remember - that information is classified) have happened and what it would mean if it in fact HAS happened.



Seems like the story of The Great Wall of China all over again. All that vision, planning and effort spent bringing something into being - only to see it so easily and totally undone by a simple act of human treachery.

Hmm...Maybe Sauron really wasn't destroyed after all. Maybe he just came here and took a government job?

(With a CV like his, he'd be a shoe-in for an NSA billet.)
 :(
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: mouser on September 12, 2013, 02:19 PM
47 minute audio interview (Fresh Air on NPR) with Washington Post's Barton Gellman on Snowden NSA leaks.
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/11/221359323/reporter-had-to-decide-if-snowden-leaks-were-the-real-thing

(found on BoingBoing)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 12, 2013, 03:34 PM
^That Fresh Air interview of Gellman is definitely worth listening to in its entirety.  :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 12, 2013, 07:04 PM
47 minute audio interview (Fresh Air on NPR) with Washington Post's Barton Gellman on Snowden NSA leaks.
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/11/221359323/reporter-had-to-decide-if-snowden-leaks-were-the-real-thing

I listen to enough NPR on the radio in the car, and it's rarely anything other than what it is - state funded news. The highlights all seem to aim at damage control.

I do wish there were a video interview.

^That Fresh Air interview of Gellman is definitely worth listening to in its entirety.  :Thmbsup:

Hmmm... Curiouser and curiouser...
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 13, 2013, 04:40 AM
47 minute audio interview (Fresh Air on NPR) with Washington Post's Barton Gellman on Snowden NSA leaks.
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/11/221359323/reporter-had-to-decide-if-snowden-leaks-were-the-real-thing

I listen to enough NPR on the radio in the car, and it's rarely anything other than what it is - state funded news. The highlights all seem to aim at damage control.


That's rather funny since that's pretty much what the arch conservatives, the religious right-wingers, the political lunatic fringe and their ilk invariably say about NPR whenever it doesn't cover or tell a news story the way they think it should.
 ;D :P
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 13, 2013, 09:27 AM
That's rather funny since that's pretty much what the arch conservatives, the religious right-wingers, the political lunatic fringe and their ilk invariably say about NPR whenever it doesn't cover or tell a news story the way they think it should.
 ;D :P

Hahaha!  :Thmbsup:

Well, I'm certainly not an "arch conservative".

I'm pretty darn far from being a "religious right-winger". It would be difficult to be less of that.

POLITICAL LUNATIC FRINGE! You've nailed it! YES! That's me!  8)

Let it soak in...

A bit longer...

Soaked yet? ;)

Yep. I'm not kidding. If I had my way, there would be no coercive state. I am that "political lunatic fringe" that, well, I'll skip that. (Would make for a really fun discussion though! ;D )

That being said, when I listen to NPR, I'm hyper critical.

The other thing is that the state shouldn't be covering the news. Any way they cover it is wrong, because they shouldn't be covering it at all. Even when I like a story, and even if I agree with what's being said, I can't help but wonder why are they telling people this? (I'll drop that there as it's another topic.)

But if you look at the highlights, I wasn't wrong. They're skewed. They sound like:

What they sound like to me
"But you weren't burned with cigarettes or cut with a knife and no bones were broken during the rape?"
"No, but..."
"Nothing further, your Honour. Move to dismiss."



I've not finished listening to the interview yet though. FWIW, he seems reasonable on a lot of things, and I did really like some of the things he has said so far. (I'll finish it later.)
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
^Dunno. I thought Gellman did an admirable job of sticking to the truth as he knows it. And I'd also credit the interviewer for simply handing him a concise group of questions at one point that neatly summarized most of the nonsensical chatter that's been floating around in order to give him the opportunity to refute them from the perspective of an actual insider in the Snowden story.

I also admired Gellman as much for what he refused to say - and the NPR interviewer for graciously accepting that refusal and not pushing it like many of the mainstream news channel interviewers would have.

None of that sounds like state sponsored propaganda to me.

If it were, the interviewer would have attempted to make Gellman look like a ring-tailed baboon with rapid-fire leading questions and inference tossing like the neo-con talk show hosts so love to do.

At the end of this interview I think Snowden emerges in a much better light than many would have given him credit for. And the same goes for Gellman who also got to show how (contrary to the administration and intelligence community's allegations and unsupported assertions) the Washington Post displayed a huge degree of discretion and restraint in what they did publish when presenting the Snowden story to the American public.

As Gellman pointed out, Snowden (or the three news sources he shared his data with) could have easily done a raw data dump to Wikileaks or a mirroring network at any time. And there would have been very little that 'the powers that be' could have done to prevent it.

The fact that the Washington Post did speak and consult with the government to minimize release of certain technical and operational details - details which would have done little to advance the story - shows good judgment IMHO. Especially since the big picture that has emerged is damning enough - and more than sufficient to establish just how extensive and serious a problem we have right now.

Which supports the Washington Post's argument that they published with no intention other than to inform the general public of what was going on - and set a debate in motion.

Which it did.

All in all, I think it was handled rather well on NPR and the WP's part. 8)



Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 13, 2013, 09:04 PM
Finished the interview there. It was very good.

Gellman's take on the criminality of the leaks and reporting was interesting. I also liked his take on being paranoid.  :Thmbsup:

Off-topic about media
None of that sounds like state sponsored propaganda to me.

We're unlikely to agree on some things there. Have you ever skimmed though "Manufacturing Consent" or "The Engineering of Consent"? (Chomsky and Bernays, respectively.) (I've already blithered on about my skepticism of the media in general. I'm only slightly more skeptical of NPR reporting. More blathering to follow below. ;) )

The neutral tone of NPR is a refreshing departure from the utter drivel and gnashing of teeth that you get in the MSM, but it's still state run media. The content of any particular discussion on NPR is generally irrelevant - that they are framing the discussion is the important part. Demographics make a big difference here. Your average "beer, football & reality TV" zombie doesn't listen to (or watch) NPR. NPRs audience, well, nuff said.

If it were, the interviewer would have attempted to make Gellman look like a ring-tailed baboon with rapid-fire leading questions and inference tossing like the neo-con talk show hosts so love to do.

I don't know why people always go on about the "neo-con talk show hosts" being douches. Sure, Rush Limbaugh has a solid douchebaggery score. So do other right-aligned commentators. But why does nobody ever point out the douchebaggery of the left-aligned commentators? Well, except for a few. It's consistent through a lot of media, and even in "right" media like Fox sometimes.

Here are a few examples of leftist commentators that really just go way the heck off into Lala-land.

MSNBC - Melissa Harris-Perry (wants to kidnap children). Alex Wagner (can't not ask a leading question to save her life).
ABC - Whoopi Goldberg (exercising rights is "terrorism" - I'm not making that up).
CNN - Piers Morgan (oh god... makes Alex Wagner look tame).

We could go on and on. They're extremely dishonest, if not delusionally insane.

It's not left/right media that's dishonest - it's all of them.

Now, to NPR's credit, there is pretty much none of the crap that you get with Limbaugh, Morgan, or the rest of the MSM. This makes NPR much less entertaining. e.g. It's pretty hard to top the insane drivel that comes out of Melissa Harris-Perry's mouth, which makes for a good laugh if you don't end up vomiting and bashing your head against the wall.

Neo-con or neo-liberal - which flavour of turd would you like?

In general, I think it's good to get a solid balance of turds in your diet. One pollutes your pallet with a different set of pathogens so you don't get bored of always having crappy meals. :P

Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: 40hz on September 14, 2013, 01:45 PM
The neutral tone of NPR is a refreshing departure from the utter drivel and gnashing of teeth that you get in the MSM, but it's still state run media.

It's not. You really need to spend a little more time in the USA to understand how things actually work here, as opposed to 'just knowing' how they do. :-\ :P

I don't know why people always go on about the "neo-con talk show hosts" being douches. Sure, Rush Limbaugh has a solid douchebaggery score. So do other right-aligned commentators. But why does nobody ever point out the douchebaggery of the left-aligned commentators?

That's probably because nobody really ever listens to the left-wing pundits. They are "bombinating in a vacuum" to borrow a phrase of James Thurber's. Even the diehard leftists generally ignore them. Possibly because the right-wing likes to have their arguments and "talking points" provided to them, whereas the left-leaning crowd tends to resist any attempt to hand them pre-canned anything. As one old saying from the 60s used to go: The Left needs to stand apart with each other on this issue.
;)

Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 14, 2013, 11:48 PM
The neutral tone of NPR is a refreshing departure from the utter drivel and gnashing of teeth that you get in the MSM, but it's still state run media.

It's not. You really need to spend a little more time in the USA to understand how things actually work here, as opposed to 'just knowing' how they do. :-\ :P

http://www.npr.org/about-npr/178660742/public-radio-finances

Other than that 39% there, my bet is that we can call those "state". If there's actually a difference anymore, I don't see it. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Kiss Encryption Goodbye... :*
Post by: Renegade on September 15, 2013, 12:23 AM
I'm not sure if Rick Falkvinge is a full on crypto-anarchist, but he sure seems like it sometimes.

http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/12/the-nsa-and-u-s-congress-has-destroyed-ssl-we-must-rebuild-web-security-from-the-ground-up/

The NSA has forged web security certificates. What’s worse, we knew that they could, and we still trusted certificate-based web security. Web security as we know it is dead and worthless – worse than worthless, even – and must be rebuilt from the ground up.

When you are going to a website that bills itself as secure, it uses a so-called “security certificate”. Such certificates on the web serve two purposes. One, they encrypt the session between your computer and the web server, so nobody else can listen in, and two, they identify the web server you are talking to and tell you whose web server it is. When you log onto your bank, you will see a little padlock next to the bank’s name in the address bar. The NSA and their ilk have effectively negated both of these security mechanisms.

This makes today’s Web security worse than worthless. It is not just worthless, as in not providing the claimed security whatsoever; it is worse than worthless, as it provides people at large with a thoroughly false sense of security. It’s like if all the front door locks in the world were dead easy to open for somebody who knew the magic word. Unless this lack of security is well understood – and being a technical issue, it won’t – people will keep thinking they’re secure. That’s horrible, frankly.

...

Many certificate suppliers are based in the USA. This, combined with the infamous National Security Letters (NSLs) that the U.S. Congress has created, is a death knell. There is nothing stopping the NSA from issuing such a letter compelling Verisign or any other U.S.-based certificate authority to issue a forged certificate to the NSA, and be forced by law to not tell anybody about it.

The mere possibility of this happening is enough to declare certificate-based web security stone dead as a technology – but we know now that the NSA has already used forged certificates to impersonate Google. That’s extra damning. Let’s take that again: the NSA forced web traffic intended for Google’s servers to take a route through the NSA’s servers, where the NSA presented themselves as Google and were able to wiretap traffic intended for Google’s servers, negating both functions of certificate-based security.

And from a link in there:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130910/10470024468/flying-pig-nsa-is-running-man-middle-attacks-imitating-googles-servers.shtml

FLYING PIG: The NSA Is Running Man In The Middle Attacks Imitating Google's Servers


Glyn mentioned this in his post yesterday about the NSA leaks showing direct economic espionage, but with so many other important points in that story, it got a little buried. One of the key revelations was about a program called "FLYING PIG" which is the first time I can recall it being clearly stated that the NSA has been running man-in-the-middle attacks on internet services like Google. This slide makes it quite clear that the NSA impersonates Google servers:

More at those links.

SSL is dead.

Kleptography:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-req/?include_text=1

3.4. Kleptography

   Kleptography is persuading the party to be intercepted to use a form
   of cryptography that the attacker knows they can break. Real life
   examples of kleptography include the British government encouraging
   the continued use of Enigma type cryptography machines by British
   colonies after World War II and the requirement that early export
   versions of Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer use 40 bit
   symmetric keys.