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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: zridling on January 03, 2011, 05:23 PM
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[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/how-to-choose-the-best-linux-distro-for-laptops-915579)
Mayank Sharma (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/how-to-choose-the-best-linux-distro-for-laptops-915579) helps you pick which Linux distro is best for your notebook over at Techradar. He covers gaming, movies, and office work and plays it safe among Ubuntu variants, Fedora, and openSUSE. I'd buy a laptop because they're so cheap these days, but I'd never take it anywhere. So I'll keep building my own little desktops on the cheap.
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I'll keep building my own little desktops on the cheap.
-zridling
+1 8)
And all this time I thought I was alone doing that. :Thmbsup: ;D
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Actually, I've been looking very closely at some low-mid-range laptops for my ferry commute.
Looking at $600 limit doesn't leave me very much, but Dell and Toshiba seem to be offering the most at that price.
Most modern laptops can handle Xubuntu :-* pretty well, so it's not about distro.
I will say that Slitaz (http://www.slitaz.org/en/) was pretty darn smooth on an old Dell Inspiron 7500, which clocked in at 400 MHz and 256MB RAM, and Puppy (http://www.puppylinux.com/) did OK too, though neither of them ran the wireless reliably.
I'll still be building desktops until they just don't make them anymore, as well... :Thmbsup:
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Thanks zridling. :Thmbsup:
I was using trial-and-error, mostly error. My Toshiba Satellite only likes Knoppix v511. I tried all the other Knoppix versions. Puppy pulp_002 is the only one that works, not v412PAW, v431, v500, v511 on the Toshiba. I think they don't like my Telus DSL modem.
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I am using fedora 14 right now on my netbook, centos on my test server, and am contemplating gentoo for a spare system I have lying around.
On that note, I finally found
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/272247
which helped me solve that very issue. Gotta love netbooks! acpi_skip_timer_override + hpet=disable saved me this time. The OS not receiving system interrupts unless a key is pressed or trackpad touched is HIGHLY annoying as it halts ALL system I/O.
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Can anyone recommend a nice, speedy distro for netbooks?
I've really only tried Ubuntu on my netbook (only 1GB RAM), and even the Netbook Edition of that feels slow and cumbersome.
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@Deozaan:
You might consider Jolicloud:
http://www.jolicloud.com/
or if you want something slightly more robust, perhaps Arch Linux:
http://www.archlinux.org/
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There are several Netbook-specific distros like xPUD (http://www.xpud.org/) and MeeGo (http://meego.com/).
Here's a comparison with a bunch of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_netbook-oriented_Linux_distributions
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@Deozaan:
You might consider Jolicloud:
http://www.jolicloud.com/
or if you want something slightly more robust, perhaps Arch Linux:
http://www.archlinux.org/
-zridling
I tried out Jolicloud (and told you about it) almost exactly a year ago. I thought it was okay at the time, but it was basically Ubuntu Netbook Edition with "Web App" shortcuts. I wasn't going to try it again but wow! It sure has changed a lot in the past year! I guess I will after all. :)
Here's a comparison with a bunch of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_netbook-oriented_Linux_distributions
-Edvard
Thanks for the information. I'm currently downloading Jolicloud OS, Arch Linux, MeeGo, and xPUD. :Thmbsup:
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I'll keep building my own little desktops on the cheap.
-zridling
+1 8)
And all this time I thought I was alone doing that. :Thmbsup: ;D
-40hz
Nope, I do too - for the entire family. Same reason too.... :Thmbsup:
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Linpus Lite (http://www.linpus.com/) as came standard on the Acer Aspire One AOA110 was fairly speedy even on the dog of a SSD they had in them.
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Some less known distributions I have liked on netbooks and old laptops:
- Slitaz. Although it takes a little hack to install from a USB key if you have no CD. Very well done slick distro (wireless not so robust without work at getting drivers, eg: broadcom. note: this happens on all ubuntu, redhat and debian based distros too, on my hardware. none pick up the wifi)
- PClinuxOS has several light/minimal versions with openbox, lxde, xfce (even a basic kde or gnome but you'd have to pick-and-add tools)
- Salix is very beginner friendly and has a LXDE and an XFCE version - this is one distro that comes with a nice "how to start"
- Trisquel - amazingly resilient with working wifi out of the box on many machines where other more mainstream distros fail to work
PS: Meego is top on my list to try to use and like, because they I can get a N900 and have the same stuff on my computers and my phone and that is a very attractive thought :)
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I gave the first four I mentioned a try. Here are my impressions:
xPUD: I ran it from USB thumb drive which was fast and easy but I couldn't figure out how to get my wifi to work. It also seemed to forget everything when I rebooted, losing all settings and customization. :down:
Arch Linux: Won't install from USB. I used UNetbootin to transfer the ISO onto a bootable USB drive, but installation failed and kicked me out to the command line. The error message sounded like it couldn't find my hard drive. :(
Joli OS: I used the .exe file to install alongside Windows. It works as advertised. Even the WiFi works from the get-go. An interesting Cloud OS. It does have a couple of strange problems installing or uninstalling a few programs. I think I still don't want it as my main OS on my netbook.
MeeGo works really well off a USB drive and boots fast! It's pretty cool, too. I need to play around with it some more, but it still seems to be missing something(s).
I can't speak for Arch Linux, since I couldn't even get it to work, but the other three make me feel limited. I feel like I don't have the freedom to install whatever I want and tinker around with stuff. They feel restricted and limited in that sense.
I don't necessarily want a Cloud OS. Is there an OS that has all the abilities of something like Ubuntu but is really light on resources? Like a vLite for Ubuntu. :-D Maybe I need to look into Tiny/MicroCore (http://tinycorelinux.com/) and DSL (http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/)...
I just want my machine to feel snappy. This thing is exponentially more powerful than my old 386/66. Why does it feel slower?
I'll look into Linpus Lite and a few of the ones you mentioned, iphigenie. Thanks for the suggestions!
I noticed I have 22 GiB of Linux Distro ISOs in my download folder... :-[
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To be fair, a Netbook is by design a rather limited machine, and the various distros targeted for the platform are doing their best to fit in the smaller package, and so some things do end up more or less missing. :(
Actually, this post says Debian proper works pretty well, and then you'll have the benefit of the APT package management system and the vast Debian repositories:
http://duopetalflower.blogspot.com/2010/02/debian-squeeze-on-netbook-uses-less.html
You could also use the magical "alternative-to-kernel-patch" speedup hack and see how she goes:
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=24650.0
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To be fair, a Netbook is by design a rather limited machine, and the various distros targeted for the platform are doing their best to fit in the smaller package, and so some things do end up more or less missing. :(
Actually, this post says Debian proper works pretty well, and then you'll have the benefit of the APT package management system and the vast Debian repositories:
http://duopetalflower.blogspot.com/2010/02/debian-squeeze-on-netbook-uses-less.html
-Edvard
If you know a distribution well, then just about any distribution that allows you to build up from a minimal install will work, and is a worthy approach since you already know the distro and the community. Gentoo, arch, Debian, Slackware (being a contrarian that is what I tend to use :D ) (I would not try this with any of redhat, suse or fedora as I have never had any luck getting any of these to give me what i would consider a minimal install)
The big challenge with that approach is figuring out
- the windowing/desktop environment
- a good mix of apps that fit well together and with the libraries of your chosen environment (qt, gtk, etc.)
that is a lot of research and figuring out (and I always end up giving up after I realise I have just messed up the mix by picking an app that has added half of KDE or Gnome or both!)
This is where I think that slitaz, pclinux0S and salix, for example, have "pre-made" a set of choices. Salix has access to everything in slackbuilds, and pclinuxos has a very large repository. Slitaz has "recipes" for a lot less, but it is easy to create one for a lot of software (even I managed) once you understand the process.
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xPUD: I ran it from USB thumb drive which was fast and easy but I couldn't figure out how to get my wifi to work. It also seemed to forget everything when I rebooted, losing all settings and customization. :down:-Deozaan
Regarding xPUD, it is not designed to be a full always used OS, it's designed to be an 'instant on' OS, (as you find, eg. in ASUS BIOS'), for netbooks for when you're travelling and you don't want to boot into the full OS.
As such there's really no need to store WiFi settings as they're going to be changing as you move around.
xPUD WiFi works fine on my AAO with the standard hardware: type in SSID and network password and it connects.
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xPUD: I ran it from USB thumb drive which was fast and easy but I couldn't figure out how to get my wifi to work. It also seemed to forget everything when I rebooted, losing all settings and customization. :down:-Deozaan
Regarding xPUD, it is not designed to be a full always used OS, it's designed to be an 'instant on' OS, (as you find, eg. in ASUS BIOS'), for netbooks for when you're travelling and you don't want to boot into the full OS.
As such there's really no need to store WiFi settings as they're going to be changing as you move around.-4wd
Sure, WiFi settings might change all the time, but it should remember that I already ran Dropbox for the first time and associated my account with it. As for WiFi, it didn't appear to give me an option to type in the SSID. It showed a (blank) list with a refresh button and a textbox to type in the password. Methinks it didn't recognize my wireless card.
I also just tried the Linpus Lite Windows Installer to install Linpus alongside Windows. It won't boot. I have the option to boot into Windows or Linpus and when I select Linpus it flashes two lines on the screen real fast and then goes back to the screen where I choose to boot into Windows or Linpus. :down:
Actually, this post says Debian proper works pretty well, and then you'll have the benefit of the APT package management system and the vast Debian repositories:
http://duopetalflower.blogspot.com/2010/02/debian-squeeze-on-netbook-uses-less.html-Edvard
I was actually just considering this idea myself. I'm most familiar with Ubuntu, so I know some commands using apt-get to download and install the packages I want/need. Debian may be just the thing I'm looking for!
Though the download pages for Debian (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/bt-cd/) confuse me. Do I really need to download/burn 52 CDs to install it? Does it seriously require 8 DVDs (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/bt-dvd/)? :huh:
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It's a silly question I know but....other than being a 'netbook', exactly what is it?
And the reason I ask is: Some manufacturers shipped them with a Linux distro, (the AAO AOA110 being a case in point), ie. have you checked the manufacturers site to see if they have one?
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It's a silly question I know but....other than being a 'netbook', exactly what is it?-4wd
It's an MSI Wind U120-024US (http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?id=55).
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...
Though the download pages for Debian (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/bt-cd/) confuse me. Do I really need to download/burn 52 CDs to install it? Does it seriously require 8 DVDs (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.0/i386/bt-dvd/)? :huh:
-Deozaan
Nope, just the first CD.
Even better, try the "Live" images first; they're more desktop-oriented as far as included packages.
Everything else can be installed via APT.
In fact, I would recommend the XFCE/LXDE versions (which may run faster), scroll down to the bottom of the download pages, you'll find it.
I agree Debian's website has NEVER been the friendliest, and prevented me from trying it for many years.
The '8 DVD' option is apparently for those without a constant internet connection.
Quite archaic, IMO, but might be useful for someone on a desert island with FedEx service. :P
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...
If you know a distribution well, then just about any distribution that allows you to build up from a minimal install will work, and is a worthy approach since you already know the distro and the community. Gentoo, arch, Debian, Slackware (being a contrarian that is what I tend to use :D ) (I would not try this with any of redhat, suse or fedora as I have never had any luck getting any of these to give me what i would consider a minimal install)
-iphigenie
I too ran slackware for a few years and learned much from the experience, but hand-installing lib after lib just to get one application that wasn't pre-installed running grated on my nerves.
I hear they fixed that...
The big challenge with that approach is figuring out
- the windowing/desktop environment
- a good mix of apps that fit well together and with the libraries of your chosen environment (qt, gtk, etc.)
that is a lot of research and figuring out (and I always end up giving up after I realise I have just messed up the mix by picking an app that has added half of KDE or Gnome or both!)
Which is why I like the APT system of Ubuntu/Debian.
It tells me what the dependencies are and if I suddenly have to download 100 megs of dependency to run a note-taking application, I know to look elsewhere.
Many strides have been made lately to further separate applications from their intended Desktop Environment.
It's not perfect yet, but better.
I also prefer the Xfce desktop for it's relative agnosticity toward toolkits.
OK, it leans pretty heavy on GTK, but it doesn't complain when I want to run a Qt app, either.
This is where I think that slitaz, pclinux0S and salix, for example, have "pre-made" a set of choices. Salix has access to everything in slackbuilds, and pclinuxos has a very large repository. Slitaz has "recipes" for a lot less, but it is easy to create one for a lot of software (even I managed) once you understand the process.
+1 for Slitaz, although it looks as if the website is down: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/slitaz.org :huh:
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I noticed PCLinuxOS mentioned here and in a couple of other posts on the forum. In looking for information on different live cd's I came across this PCLinuxOS site: http://www.pclinuxos.com/
There is also a link on this site to a monthly PCLinuxOS magazine: http://pclosmag.com/
The magazine is available in html or PDF versions. The PDF versions I've downloaded so far are 40-60 pages and cover a variety of topics. Reviews, tutorials, configurations...
Searched the forums here and didn't see either of these sites mentioned before and thought I'd pass them along. Might be of some help.
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I'm one of those that th PCLOS folks would find intolerable: I REALLY WANT a 64-bit version.
I understand it's a solid OS, nothing gets in an official release that threatens to be too unstable.
"It's ready when it's ready" is a fine motto for most things, but golly-gee-whillikers, folks... 64-bit has been a viable option for more than a few years now. :huh:
That said, I've heard over and over that PCLinuxOS is a wonderful distro; lightweight, friendly, and stable.
Give that one a shot as well, Deo.
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I've used PCLinuxOS in the past and had generally favorable experiences with it. Very user friendly community behind it.
If you're feeling adventurous, my current fav for laptop use is CrunchBang Linux (http://crunchbanglinux.org/). It's based on the Debian repositories and uses Openbox as it's primary window manager.
Fluid, fast, darkly themed, and sometimes just a little too leading edge (in places) for its own good. ;D
If you're a fan of Conky you'll feel right at home.
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Not to say it has to stay dark...
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Dynamite distro, although it may not be the best choice for your first foray into Linux on a laptop. But we're a fairly knowledgeable and clever crew here - so then again, maybe it might.
There's a live CD available which makes it easy to try out without making a commitment.
Good review (older version) here (http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/crunchbang.html).
The latest release is reviewed here (http://www.linuxdistroreview.com/crunchbang-10-statler).
8)
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Ooh... forgot about #!
It was touted as the forthcoming OS of choice for a Linux "pad" computer.
Remember the CrunchPad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrunchPad)?
Sad story, but the OS is none too shabby.
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I tried Debian, and it felt so similar to Ubuntu (since Ubuntu is based on Debian) that I decided to give Ubuntu another shot. Well, actually Xubuntu, since I've heard that Xcfe is faster than Gnome. Xubuntu's Task Manager says that it uses up 12% of my RAM on a fresh boot, since the machine has 1GB I guess that's just about 120MB.
I didn't know what sort of resource monitor Debian had, so I didn't check.
But if #! can run on under 60MB, it's definitely worth a shot. I guess I'll start playing around with some more distros. I've also downloaded PCLinuxOS.
[EDIT]Hmm... #! is currently using 93.7 out of 1,000 MiB RAM when running from the Live CD (USB, actually). Not sure if that's a good enough advantage over Xubuntu. Maybe it would have a smaller memory footprint running off the HDD rather than the Live USB?[/EDIT]
[EDIT2] And #! won't install. It can't access the security.debian.com repository and it won't install GRUB boot loader. I find that strange because Debian and Ubuntu both install the boot loader just fine. In fact, GRUB is already the main boot loader for this netbook, so it's already installed. So much for #!... [/EDIT2]
I really like the idea of running Tiny/MicroCore Linux from RAMDisk, but sadly I don't know enough about Linux to do anything with that particular distro.
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I ran PCLinuxOS from the Live USB and it was also running on about 97 MB RAM. I decided to install it and when running from an install it was only using about 67 MB RAM on a fresh boot. But I had some problems using the packet manager to download some programs. For some reason it only had one repository enabled and it couldn't connect to that one. It also has a "speed test" program that tests the speeds of repositories and automatically selects the fastest one, but it kept telling me to make sure I was connected to the internet, even though I could browse the web just fine.
I messed around with that for a while and finally got it to download what I wanted. By then the RAM was up above the 120MB mark, so I rebooted to see what it would be on a fresh boot and now there's something wrong with the desktop environment. After logging in, all I get is a blank screen with the mouse cursor on it. I can right click to access most everything (like how Crunchbang did it), but the "task bar" or whatever it's called never shows up. It's just blackness. It's both cool (in that it's very minimalist, like Crunchbang) and annoying (because I don't know how to get it back the way it was before) at the same time.
Also, I installed PCLinuxOS to a separate partition, but somehow it still managed to break my Xubuntu installation. Now when I boot into Xubuntu everything looks great but it freezes almost immediately after I've logged in. Could this be because I told both of them to use the same partition for Swap?
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Very sorry to hear your difficulty in getting this thing up and running.
Believe me, I understand how frustrating Linux can sometimes be, but when it does go... 8)
I didn't know what sort of resource monitor Debian had, so I didn't check.
-Deozaan
All Linux versions have a command-line utility called 'top' that gives you running stats.
'htop' is even better (http://www.debianadmin.com/display-top-cpu-processes-using-htop.html), but it's not installed by default on most distros.
Otherwise, each Desktop Environment will have it's own graphical reource monitor.
On Xfce, it's simply "xfce4-taskmanager" (not always installed by default).
Gnome has "System Monitor" and KDE has "KSysGuard".
Could this be because I told both of them to use the same partition for Swap?
-Deozaan
Nope, a swap is a swap.
Nothing should be hanging out in there to muck with the other's.
What desktop version of PCLinuxOS are you trying?
KDE? Gnome? Xfce?
If it's Xfce, just hit Alt+F2 and type in: xfce4-panel
The others, I dunno.
Regarding the PCLOS repository bug:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,87377.0.html
For Xubuntu, I don't know what is causing that.
Sometimes an install just goes south when first installed.
Sometimes re-burning the install CD at a slower speed and re-installing will fix it, sometimes a second attempt at installing will spiff it up, sometimes nothing helps.
That said, I'm not even sure Xubuntu is as lightweight as some promise; it's still Ubuntu under the hood, after all.
I'd go with the Debian Xfce live disk if you want to see Xfce fly.
This might help as well:
http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/MSI/WindU100
Looks like the Slitaz website is back up:
http://slitaz.org
I had a pleasant time with it on an older laptop a friend gave me before the power supply died; I can give it a solid recommendation.
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What desktop version of PCLinuxOS are you trying?
KDE? Gnome? Xfce?
If it's Xfce, just hit Alt+F2 and type in: xfce4-panel
The others, I dunno.
Regarding the PCLOS repository bug:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,87377.0.html
-Edvard
It's running OpenBox. It seems to be doing the same thing the reviewer pointed out about CrunchBang, which is just a blank screen and no "start bar" or "task bar" or anything on the desktop. Just a mouse cursor and access to everything from the right-click context menu. It's kind of nice and minimal, and at the same time slightly bothersome since I'm not sure what caused it.
That said, I'm not even sure Xubuntu is as lightweight as some promise; it's still Ubuntu under the hood, after all.
I'd go with the Debian Xfce live disk if you want to see Xfce fly.
This might help as well:
http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/MSI/WindU100-Edvard
As I said, I did have Debian installed and it seemed to run okay, but since I didn't know about htop at the time I didn't check to see how it did with the resources.
I'm getting ready to try Linux Mint 10 LXDE (I might switch LXDE with OpenBox if that's not too hard to do) over my Xubuntu installation, but maybe I'll give Slitaz a try first.
Thanks for all the other info and help that I didn't reply to specifically.
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LXDE uses OpenBox as the Window Manager, so you're already halfway there.
Most of what 'makes' LXDE is the different panel/launcher/utility thingummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXDE#Components) bundled in.
Not exactly sure, but it sounds like your problem with OpenBox is there's no bar thingy running by default.
ObConf (OpenBox configuration manager GUI) should help get that worked out.
I actually liked LXDE's LxPanel a lot, worked better and more stable than a lot of other lightweight panels.
Incidentally, the Xfce panel plays nice with OpenBox as well.
Mint is based on Ubuntu, don't know if you'll get any performance increase but I've heard some reports that Mint solves some hardware problems that Ubuntu still has.
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Not exactly sure, but it sounds like your problem with OpenBox is there's no bar thingy running by default.
ObConf (OpenBox configuration manager GUI) should help get that worked out.
-Edvard
Not quite. I don't have a problem that OpenBox has no bar thingy running by default. The thing is, when I first installed PCLinuxOS, it did have a bar thingy running by default. I think it even had a wallpaper image with the PCLinuxOS logo. Then I mucked around trying to get the packet manager to work and now the bar thingy is gone and the wallpaper is just a blank black screen and I don't know how to get it back.
Going into ObConf I'm guessing the "bar thingy" is called a Dock? All the options for the dock have it set to be enabled, but it still doesn't show. And going to the Desktop preferences shows that there's a wallpaper.png set as the desktop wallpaper, but it just shows a black screen. :huh:
As I said, I kind of like the minimalism of it all; the only thing that bothers me is that I don't know why this happened or how to change it back if I wanted to.
Mint is based on Ubuntu, don't know if you'll get any performance increase but I've heard some reports that Mint solves some hardware problems that Ubuntu still has.
-Edvard
I knew that Mint was based on Ubuntu, but I've heard people say it runs better, and I have a friend running it on his Netbook and he's pretty happy with it, so I thought I'd give it a try.
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Okay, this is weird. I shut down my netbook to take it somewhere, and when I booted back into PCLinuxOS it had the background image and the "bar thingy" again. The weird thing is that I've rebooted multiple times before and it always had the nothingness. But now every time I boot it up and has the wallpaper and bar thingy.
And it doesn't seem to take up any more RAM to show those things.
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The best Hardware detection I know of is in Sabayon linux. They have cfce and lxde editions.
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I got a bit lazy and haven't tried any new linux distros. PCLinuxOS seems to do what I wanted for my netbook, which is mostly to use up as little resources as possible so I can use it as a Minecraft server.
Thanks for recommending it to me. I think I'm going to stick with it for a while. :Thmbsup:
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No shame in stopping while you're ahead... :Thmbsup:
Glad your desktop came to it's senses as well.
Let those of us in Club Spheniscidae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin) know if you need to do any more 'experimenting'. ;)
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PCLinuxOS guys seem to have a sense of humor as well..
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• http://www.pclinuxos.com/