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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: mouser on April 01, 2010, 07:52 AM

Title: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: mouser on April 01, 2010, 07:52 AM
The Gizmodo website sums up the early iPad reviews and they are quite positive..

The iPad is not a laptop. It's not nearly as good for creating stuff. On the other hand, it's infinitely more convenient for consuming it - books, music, video, photos, Web, e-mail and so on. For most people, manipulating these digital materials directly by touching them is a completely new experience - and a deeply satisfying one.


http://gizmodo.com/5506824/first-ipad-reviews-are-in


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 (http://gizmodo.com/5506824/first-ipad-reviews-are-in)
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Eóin on April 01, 2010, 08:45 AM
There's already a rather... shall we say critical thread for the iPad so I'm not going to go down that road.

One of the main selling points of the device is media consumption. And I do appreciate it's abilites there but I also think it over stepped it's mark by sacrificing too much portability. The iPhone couldn't fill that purpose properly because it only had a 480x320 resolution, but at the moment my HD2 has a 800x480 4.3" screen. So it's fantastic for browsing the web, full web that is not sites optimized for mobiles. Also eBooks work great and PDFs, though not perfect, are very readable.

I'm not suggesting that such a phone is up the iPad standards for those purposes but the fact that I can fit my phone in my jeans means I always have it with me.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: TomTrottier on April 02, 2010, 12:14 PM
Not very FLASHy tho..... YouTube ==> SomeOneElseTube
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: zridling on April 02, 2010, 10:45 PM
To do anything with it, it appears you'll have to pay for every little page view. I'm cheap. I pay for online access, but not for content. I don't need rupert murdoch's insanity for that.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 02, 2010, 11:23 PM
I am waiting to see what happens with the Microsoft Courier (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/) - looks sweet.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Renegade on April 03, 2010, 04:45 AM
The tablet form factor has failed numerous times in the past. Let's see what kind of orgy the Apple marketing department and the fanboys can whip the masses into though. ;) I'm sure they'll do well. :) (I'd rather have an iPad than a MacBook.)

I am waiting to see what happens with the Microsoft Courier (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/) - looks sweet.

WOW! Now THAT looks like a seriously cool little tool! I've been hoping that a digital book would come out, and that looks like it!
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: y0himba on April 03, 2010, 08:15 AM
Oh look, yet another iFad.  I am sure all the iClones will need one to show everyone else they have one.  I love how the media frenzy is manipulated to make this thing look useful.  The media coverage of this reminds me of the movie "Idiocracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)".  They stand in line for a day, get the device, unbox it, then show everyone else they have it.  That's the only thing the iPad is useful for, showing others you have the latest media mentioned 'it' device.

Wait, there is yet another use for the iPad:

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Dormouse on April 03, 2010, 08:17 AM
Microsoft Courier

And the comments section has people reflecting my own concerns rather than the hype on Ars Technica comments on the iPad.

I can't see the point of a device that is too big to be really portable and doesn't have the functionality of a laptop or notebook. And which doesn't have good battery life. The Courier seems better than the iPad for portability, but I still can't see it having a decent battery life but better than a phone or netbook for email, reading, maps etc. So long as it's instant startup.

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: nudone on April 03, 2010, 09:14 AM
i don't think we are going to see anything really great until we get the flexible colour screen - something like the courier but without the hinge breaking the viewing area into two sections. can't be that far off can it? that really would revolutionise portable devices.

as for the iPad, they are going to be truly rubbish compared with the clones that come out.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 03, 2010, 10:07 AM
The Skiff (http://www.itechdiary.com/skiff-ebook-reader-with-flexible-screen.html) appears to utilitze a flexible colour screen. I'm REALLY wanting an e-Book reader, but I don't want to buy one *just* yet - I want to see what happens with the Courier (which I think looks brilliant) and with the next generation of eBook readers. HP's Slate (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/06/the-hp-slate/) looks promising, too, albeit a bit thick for my liking. But then it is a full tablet (ie a proper computer running Win7).
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Dormouse on April 03, 2010, 10:13 AM
Skiff (http://www.itechdiary.com/skiff-ebook-reader-with-flexible-screen.html) Slate (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/06/the-hp-slate/)

Still, neither really very portable.
Ebook readers can be put in pockets (just, depending on pockets) - and that's the size I'd be looking for.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 03, 2010, 10:29 AM
Still, neither really very portable.
Ebook readers can be put in pockets (just, depending on pockets) - and that's the size I'd be looking for.

Agreed. From what I've read, it REALLY is desireable to have a dedicated eBook reader to avoid unnecessary distractions. I'm dithering now because neither the Kindles nor the entry level Sonys have expandable memory (a deal breaker for me) and the Sony touch screen readers (which do have expandable memory) apparently have screen visibility issues in some lighting conditions. They're also PRICEY. The other option available to me where I live is the Aluratek Libre which is cheaper and has expandable memory, but is not well reviewed.

Overall, this is why I'm waiting to see what happens with the Courier. It looks to have the right form factor and the right feature set (even if it is more feature rich than a dedicated reader). IF it is as good as promised and at a reasonable price I'll get one, unless the next generation of eBook readers drop their prices significantly.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: TucknDar on April 03, 2010, 10:44 AM
All this iWannaBeYourDigitalBook stuff makes me think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pyjRj3UMRM
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 03, 2010, 01:47 PM
Over at boingboing Cory Doctorow has a nice little essay that pretty much sums up for me exactly what the problem is with a company like Apple and the entire idea behind a product like the iPad.

Well worth a look if you're interested in reading an unusually sane analysis of why the iPad represents a colossal step backwards rather than forward as far as the web and mediaspace are concerned.


Link:  http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/02/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-you-shouldnt-either.html

Why I won't buy an iPad (and think you shouldn't, either)

Cory Doctorow at 5:23 AM April 2, 2010

I've spent ten years now on Boing Boing, finding cool things that people have done and made and writing about them. Most of the really exciting stuff hasn't come from big corporations with enormous budgets, it's come from experimentalist amateurs. These people were able to make stuff and put it in the public's eye and even sell it without having to submit to the whims of a single company that had declared itself gatekeeper for your phone and other personal technology...


 8)

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: zridling on April 05, 2010, 02:03 AM
I second y0himba and 40hz's (Doctorow's) responses. It will definitely kill the Kindle based on the fact that Apple will allow publishers to charge any price they want for their ebooks. The iPad is primarily a consumption device built to deliver content (and get paid handsomely for it).

The larger problem I see is that the net is quickly being carved up and fenced off while the snapperheads in the media are WOWEE'd! by anything Jobs tosses out, reflecting his narrow vendor concerns (lock-in, no content transfers, proprietary batteries, chargers, etc.). It's really weird to see one after another talk show host get orgasmic over this thing. Already there are 40 governments around the globe that filter the web, and with ACTA coming along with the DMCA and endless patent pissing matches, most information use we enjoy now will suddenly be criminalized to protect influential industries. Soon you'll have to pay a gatekeeper like Rupert Murdoch, Apple, or Microsoft just to get online, taking us back to the old Compuserve/AOL days. Pay-per-view devices like the iPad would drain oceans of information we find now, leaving only highly-policed canals.

An iPad is like building your own private prison -- pay us to lock you in and lock your content down. As long as the media is approved by Apple and makes it into the iPad app store, you're free to use your iPad, that is, as long as their Safari browser will play it. If Apple doesn't approve -- and they're notorious for what appears to be god-based censorship -- neither your app nor its content will ever find you, the consumer. bleh.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 05, 2010, 05:15 AM
On January 22, 1984, Apple Computer ran the following ad in the third quarter of Superbowl XVIII. It was seen by 38.8 million television viewers - a number that represents 46.4% of all households - and 71% of the entire USA television audience on the day it aired...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-715862862672743260#

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Now take a look at Steve Jobs' 1983 Apple keynote speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSiQA6KKyJo

Pay close attention around the 3 minute mark.

It is now 1984.

(dramatic pause...)

It appears IBM wants it all.

Apple is perceived to be the only hope to offer IBM a run for its money. Dealers initially welcoming IBM with open arms now fear an IBM-dominated and controlled future.

They are increasingly turning back to Apple as the only force that can ensure their future freedom.

IBM wants it all and is aiming its guns on its last obstacle to industry control: Apple.

Will Big Blue  dominate the entire computer industry? The entire information age?

Was George Orwell right?

And while it's true that 1984 ended up not being "like 1984," the year 2010 is sure starting to feel that way.

Bravo Steve!  :Thmbsup:

(I still can't make up my mind whether to laugh or cry.)


Or maybe just throw up.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: KynloStephen66515 on April 05, 2010, 06:58 PM
The Gizmodo website sums up the early iPad reviews and they are quite positive..

Im still not buying one! lol
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 05, 2010, 09:40 PM
A good "real person" review on Slashdot:
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/04/05/1544234/iPad-Review

This is probably closer to the likely views of the DC tech-savvy audience than some of the other reviews seen so far.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Target on April 05, 2010, 10:28 PM
then there's this one - http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=ipad

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 05, 2010, 10:48 PM
Oh yeah, I was so glad to see Will It Blend is still on the ball. :D I wasn't sure what he was going to do with it at first since it doesn't fit, so what came next was a bit of a shock, but oddly satisfying. :P

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 05, 2010, 11:21 PM
Oh yeah, I was so glad to see Will It Blend is still on the ball. :D I wasn't sure what he was going to do with it at first since it doesn't fit, so what came next was a bit of a shock, but oddly satisfying. :P

- Oshyan

Indeed...
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: superboyac on April 05, 2010, 11:37 PM
Over at boingboing Cory Doctorow has a nice little essay that pretty much sums up for me exactly what the problem is with a company like Apple and the entire idea behind a product like the iPad.

Well worth a look if you're interested in reading an unusually sane analysis of why the iPad represents a colossal step backwards rather than forward as far as the web and mediaspace are concerned.

Link:  http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/02/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-you-shouldnt-either.html

Nice 40hz.  Even though it's not related to the article, this is my favorite part:
So what does Marvel do to "enhance" its comics? They take away the right to give, sell or loan your comics. What an improvement. Way to take the joyous, marvellous sharing and bonding experience of comic reading and turn it into a passive, lonely undertaking that isolates, rather than unites. Nice one, Misney.
This is something that I actually discuss often with my friend.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 06, 2010, 12:39 PM
Meanwhile competition is stiff:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/06/icds-tegra-2-powered-gemini-is-the-most-feature-complete-tablet/
I wonder about weight with that one...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 06, 2010, 12:47 PM
Looks interesting, Oshyan. The more I think I'm following the technology and keeping up with it all, the more unrealistic that goal seems to be! I'm getting ready to go look at the Aluratek Libre (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/product/id/10140376.aspx) - $169 locally - because I'll be old a grey before I get to read an ebook on a portable device otherwise! If the Aluratek doesn't "do it" for me, I may just jump at the Sony Touch Reader (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/sony-6-reader-touch-edition-prs600b-black/10129242.aspx?path=e50b88754c04e0da6593340871724effen02&lid=fp-10129242-sony6readertoucheditionprs600b-en), which is on sale for $299. I'm fed up of waiting - I have literally 100's of unread books on my computer because I simply can't read them that way. Never mind the academic papers - 10's of 1000's of them... Of course, now that I've ditched my PhD, does it really matter? Oddly, it does, for reasons I can't give voice to...
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 06, 2010, 02:32 PM
One thing I find hysterical.

I'm noticing that more than a few apps that used to cost $1 to $5 back in March 2010 are now priced between $10 and $15 if they also run on the iPad.

And from the screen shots and descriptions, they're the same bloody apps they were before!  :-\

It would be bad enough if they were just jamming the iPad early adopters. Unfortunately, the pricing increases also appear to apply to the iPhone 'versions' as well. Gotta love that...

Reminds me of a place I used to get coffee from. One day they brought in an expresso machine. It was one of those big-ass copper jobs that can generate enough steam to power a medium size freight train. After they got it all set up and sussed out they started selling cappuccinos and lattes for about $4.50 a pop.

That didn't bug me. But what did was when they jacked the price on their regular "extra large" coffee from $2 to $3.55

When I asked why their prices went up so much they told me that not enough people were buying lattes and they needed to "do something" to cover the cost of the new expresso machine.

I wonder if something like that is what's going on over at the App Store...

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Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 06, 2010, 03:35 PM
And now a great answer to anyone who thought the inclusion of an iPad-optimized iWorks app meant they could actually do real work on it comfortably:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/file_sharing_with_an_ipad_ugh/?utm_campaign=shorturl

Holy crap Apple, seriously? *That's* how your shiny new toy handles data sync? Wow. Just... wow.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: xtabber on April 06, 2010, 09:47 PM
Here's a useful review of the iPad that concentrates on using it for reading (as opposed to playing games or other fanboi activities): http://www.the-ebook-reader.com/apple-ipad.html . If you are interested in ebooks and ebook readers in general, this is a good site to explore.

For another, cautionary, discussion of the pros and cons of actually using an iPad, this one is also worth reading: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/06/normal_human_being_uses_the_ipad/


Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 06, 2010, 10:28 PM
Here's a useful review of the iPad that concentrates on using it for reading (as opposed to playing games or other fanboi activities): http://www.the-ebook-reader.com/apple-ipad.html . If you are interested in ebooks and ebook readers in general, this is a good site to explore.

IMNHO, the Sony eBook Readers and the Kindles et al. are already overpriced. Buying the iPad as a book reader would be ridiculous. Of course, I don't think that is what you were suggesting, and the review certainly isn't either, but I've heard/seen it suggested enough to feel compelled to comment.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Stoic Joker on April 07, 2010, 06:20 AM
Holy crap Apple, seriously? *That's* how your shiny new toy handles data sync? Wow. Just... wow.
Seriously, why the shock? ...This is a perfect Apple "File Sharing" efficiency match for the MacBook Wheel...

;)
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Eóin on April 07, 2010, 06:23 AM
Now this does shock me;

It gets worse. There is no way to share the same document with more than one iPad app. For example, a Word document imported to Pages cannot be accessed by any other iPad app, even other apps that can open Word documents.

Even from a lock down OS perspective I can't see the reasoning behind it?
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Stoic Joker on April 07, 2010, 06:36 AM
It the other half of the bookends set for this.
It gets worse. There is no way to share the same document with more than one iPad app. For example, a Word document imported to Pages cannot be accessed by any other iPad app, even other apps that can open Word documents. The only work-around is to import the document twice, once for each app. Further, if you ever delete an app from your iPad, any documents stored with that app are deleted as well.

Their (insanely) mandatory auto-saves should greatly assist in making a royal mess of things also.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 07, 2010, 08:43 AM
IMNHO, the Sony eBook Readers and the Kindles et al. are already overpriced. Buying the iPad as a book reader would be ridiculous. Of course, I don't think that is what you were suggesting, and the review certainly isn't either, but I've heard/seen it suggested enough to feel compelled to comment.

I think that people are pointing to buying it as a book reader in addition to other functionality.  I don't think that anyone would suggest buying it if your only function is to read books.  Sort of like netbooks; they are not only for keeping connected to the internet on the road, instead their selling point is they let you do that plus you have a full-fledged operating system.

And for people that read voraciously and consume written material at the rate that some do, the price of the kindle/nook (especially considering they include 3G- note that I don't say 'free' as I consider it part of the premium) is reasonable.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: xtabber on April 07, 2010, 08:55 AM
IBuying the iPad as a book reader would be ridiculous. Of course, I don't think that is what you were suggesting, and the review certainly isn't either, but I've heard/seen it suggested enough to feel compelled to comment.

Less ridiculous than as a newspaper reader, which is how the New York Times has been promoting it daily in full page ads since the launch. Both the NYT and USA Today were ready on day one with subscription apps that display their front pages full-width on the iPad.  For my own purposes, the iPad's drawbacks far outweigh any reasons I can see for buying one, but then, I still read dead tree editions of newspapers and magazines.

I certainly can't see anyone buying an iPad primarily to use as a book or news  reader, but many of those who do buy it will take advantage of its capabilities to use it that way, at least some of the time. I'm amazed at the number of young people who read books on their iPhones -- a 25 year-old relative whom I've never known to be interested in literature was reading "Pride and Prejudice" on his when I visited his parents home at Christmas. Can't argue with that.

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 07, 2010, 09:02 AM
And for people that read voraciously and consume written material at the rate that some do, the price of the kindle/nook (especially considering they include 3G- note that I don't say 'free' as I consider it part of the premium) is reasonable.

Heh, heh - I do read voraciously. Still, I don't think that $300+ is reasonable. Having said that, perhaps I'm wrong for two reasons. First, it would not be unreasonable to pay that kind of money for bookshelving and second the various iPod and Archos offerings are premium priced in the media player segment and people queue up to buy them (particularly the iPod).

I guess what I'm really waiting for (WRT ebook readers) is the market to open up - more options at the lower end of the price spectrum without having to sacrifice (too much) quiality. Now, I *did* purchase an Aluratek Libre yesterday and am playing with it.

Finally, I take your point about buying the iPad solely for its ebook reading abilities - that is more or less what I was getting at, though, as xtabber notes, if you read the web/news you will see it mooted as an ebook reader. Indeed, when it was first announced it was a toss up whether the hyberbole related to it as the arrival of the tablet (and the implication that Steven Jobs had just invented it) or the arrival of the ebook reader (and the implication that Steven Jobs had just invented it).
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 07, 2010, 09:13 AM
Heh, heh - I do read voraciously. Still, I don't think that $300+ is reasonable.

Well, I wouldn't pay $300+ for one... but am getting ready to get a nook (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/index.asp?cm_mmc=Redirect-_-nook.com-_-Storefront-_-nook).  The smaller kindle (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015T963C) is the same price range too- both a little over $250.  I don't know why $50 is that big of a difference in price to me... but I think if they were over $300, I wouldn't be looking at getting one.  But I purchased a netbook thinking that it would be a better investment, and hardly use it.  The form factor kills it for me, I think.  On the road, at the end of the day, the netbook has too small a keyboard to be productive, and that same keyboard really sucks when you're reading. (as well as the perspective).  A slate is best for that, IMO.

On that note... would anyone be interested in buying a barely used netbook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QFZFS0/ref=oss_product)?  (only partly kidding...)
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 07, 2010, 09:25 AM
Ha! We're on the same page! I'd pay $250 for the Sony PRS-600 but am not comfortable with the $299 that it's selling for here (note: this is the sale price, regular is $349, though Future Shop - Best Buy Canada - has it on as a an on-going sale). Strange, really - I can't explain why. The Aluratek that I mentioned purchasing above features decent build quality and works fine. However, I don't love it... I can see myself returning it while I can and either springing for the Sony now or waiting for the next round of sales/new products to hit the shelves. The nook looks nice, but its not an option here. The Kindle IS available though Amazon.ca, but the lack of expandable memory is a deal breaker AND other Canadians have reported that while the 3G features work, and are free, there are limitations on what you can download outside of the US. For example, you can download US newspapers and magazines, but not their graphics...
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: superboyac on April 07, 2010, 09:33 AM
40hz, you're the man.  Really!  Great posts here.

I know it's easy to talk about here, but to normal people on the outside, it's difficult to explain what is so frustrating about something like the ipad.  because most people don't care and don't know about DRM.  The prices are not that big a deal to them.  They're not thinking about the whole business of it.  And that's fine.  But  it's hard to explain, that's all.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 07, 2010, 11:28 AM
I'm amazed at the number of young people who read books on their iPhones -- a 25 year-old relative whom I've never known to be interested in literature was reading "Pride and Prejudice" on his when I visited his parents home at Christmas. Can't argue with that.

No! You certainly can't. That's kind of impressive, actually, and a perspective that had not occurred to me before: this new technology *may* be exposing literature to kids who would not otherwise bother to crack a musty old book.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: Darwin on April 07, 2010, 01:29 PM
OK - my last hijacking of this thread. Aluratek Libre is a keeper - it's (relatively) inexpensive and it does everything that I need it to do - I just had to get used to it, I guess. I can't see trading up to a Sony for another $130... so, I'll keep this and upgrade in a couple or more years.

Now, back on topic: how abou those iPads, eh? Cripes!
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 07, 2010, 02:19 PM
I've still been on the fence- one of the reasons that I delayed my purchase of my nook.  But I read a couple of other reviews- and a couple by enthusiasts.  The downsides, even when watered down, mean that I'm not going to get it.  It's a little bit bigger than a nook.  But that little bit is enough.  And the weight... and the cost.  I can't see getting an iPad without 3G, and that price tag is a bit steep!  I really like the idea of extra apps- but the biggest thing that's a turn off to me is the one part that Apple really doesn't have too much of a say in... pricing of apps.  If I have an iPhone app, I want to be able to use an iPad specific version of the app if it's available for free... not buy a new version!  And the pricing of apps make it so that you can't purchase without consideration- with apps on the iPhone, I'll drop a dollar or two without going through the trouble of downloading a trial, then getting the final version.  But 10-15 bucks is getting to the point where I question the purchase.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 07, 2010, 07:19 PM
I'll drop a dollar or two without going through the trouble of downloading a trial, then getting the final version.

Same here. But looking over my App Store activity, I see I've wasted about $60 on apps I bought to "try out" only to discover that:


I know it's only a 'buck or few' a pop. But it adds up pretty quickly. Especially with the quasi-automated way the App Store works by forcing you to keep your billing info up online with them. One click and the app is yours. And it only hits you for an average of $2 or $3 each time. Painless! (And no receipt to save or print out either. Brill!!!)

That, by the way, is the one really smart thing I think Apple did when the set up their store. Or at least it is if thinking purely from a business perspective. I put it right up there with when crack dealers discovered they could maximize their revenue stream if they doled out their stuff in quantities priced cheaply enough that even a 6th grader could afford to buy it and still have bus fare left over.


Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 07, 2010, 08:33 PM
What I've noticed about my app purchases is that most of them aren't on my iPhone anymore...
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 08, 2010, 04:32 AM
What I've noticed about my app purchases is that most of them aren't on my iPhone anymore...

You too?  ;D

Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: superboyac on April 08, 2010, 09:12 AM
Well, just to play devil's advocate here, I'm going to post an article by the great Stephen Fry about the ipad:
http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/01/28/ipad-about/

Now Fry is a huge Apple fan; if you follow him at all this is obvious.  I'm not an Apple fan, but I've personally softened my stance in the whole PC vs Apple debate lately.  I do see a lot of benefits that Apple products provide.  Also, at least for me, I have too much respect for Stephen Fry to blow off what he has to say about anything.  So I just thought I would post something respectable from the other camp, just to stir up some trouble!

I know there will be many who have already taken one look and pronounced it to be nothing but a large iPhone and something of a disappointment. I have heard these voices before. In June 2007 when the iPhone was launched I collected a long list of “not impressed”, “meh”, “big deal”, “style over substance”, “it’s all hype”, “my HTC TyTN can do more”, “what a disappointment”, “majorly underwhelmed” and similar reactions. They can hug to themselves the excuse that the first release of iPhone was 2G, closed to developers and without GPS, cut and paste and many other features that have since been incorporated. Neither they, nor I, nor anyone, predicted the “game-changing” effect the phone would so rapidly have as it evolved into a 3G, third-party app rich, compass and GPS enabled market leader. Even if it had proved a commercial and business disaster instead of an astounding success, iPhone would remain the most significant release of its generation because of its effect on the smartphone habitat. Does anybody seriously believe that Android, Nokia, Samsung, Palm, BlackBerry and a dozen others would since have produced the product line they have without the 100,000 volt taser shot up the jacksie that the iPhone delivered to the entire market?
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: tomos on April 08, 2010, 09:47 AM
Well, just to play devil's advocate here, I'm going to post an article by the great Stephen Fry about the ipad:
http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/01/28/ipad-about/

A very entertaining read :)

I'm confused again though - I know nothing about this sector of the market apart from reading some reports & reviews of iPad & the related threads here. I thought there was nothing particularly new about the iPad - Stephen Fry seems to think it's revolutionary but doesnt really say why.
Maybe it's simply the quality & build of it - he does go on about that.
and the quote in mouser's post (OP) complements that
For most people, manipulating these digital materials directly by touching them is a completely new experience - and a deeply satisfying one.

I know it's supposed to have a good quality screen (with very good viewing angles)

Have I missed something else (novel/new/different) though ?
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: zridling on April 08, 2010, 10:08 AM
I love Stephen Fry. Like most Apple folks, they're consumed with novelty. I have a professor friend who, like Fry, has bought every single thing Apple has ever made. He has entire rooms of his house filled with old Apple hardware; he could open a museum. And he's spent his entire annual salary doing it year after year. He's definitely had fun, but just as I don't want to be tied to Google or Microsoft, I also don't want to be chained to Apple's latest whimsy. A private college here in Missouri just announced that all incoming Freshmen this fall will receive iPads. Bad idea to hitch your academic life to proprietary software (and hardware)!
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: superboyac on April 08, 2010, 10:49 AM
I think the thing with Fry and the other Apple fans is that they don't care about the same stuff that we care about.  I think Fry understands perfectly well that the ipad isn't a particularly "new" technology.  The argument with Apple is always that they make it so easy to use...for NORMAL people...not us!  We are all powerusers here.  We go in and get our hands dirty.  We know all sorts of geeky details about everything.  We are different than the normal joe walking around with an iphone.

I know these apple fans, they're no dummy's.  They are intelligent, rational people.  They just don't care about all the stuff we care about.  They don't go on software forums, they don't know or care about DRM, they don't think about Sony vs kindle vs ipad.  They know Google, but they don't know HTC.  They don't know what IPS is.  This is total geek stuff.  This is our world.

The ipad is designed for them.  And let's remember, WE are the minority by quite a bit, not the other way around.  So if Jobs, who is a brilliant marketer, is going to cater to any group, it's going to be them.  So, whether the ipad doesn't have USB or is going to eventually lock their data into the Apple proprietary world...these thoughts don't even cross their minds.

All they know is the ipad is cool, it's sexy, it behaves sexy, it's easy to use for them, it doesn't make them feel dumb like when we (the geeks) talk to them about the dangers of DRM and not having a removable battery, etc.  And they are right.  The ipad is sexy.  I wish the poweruser-friendly products would put a little more effort in their interface and making it sexier and easier.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 08, 2010, 02:48 PM
What's interesting to me - and this is probably just symptomatic of a 1st gen Apple product - is how, despite the polish and "sexiness" and "ease of use", some *very fundamental* and absolutely *non-geeky* things appear fundamentally broken on the iPad. Looking back at history, it may have appeared that way with the iPhone 1st gen too. Things that have already been mentioned in this thread like the atrocious handling if iWork documents sync, or the necessity of connecting to a primary computer system to even use the thing (forget about it being a great system for "grandma" or "average user" unless they already have a different PC, so let's drop that argument!). Not to mention the apparent issues with weight and ergonomics.

So here's my thought: The Apple Faithful and general tech enthusiasts buy enough of the 1st gen products and are willing enough to overlook the flaws and talk them up, and Apple is willing to stick around for the 2nd gen, that by the time 2nd gen does roll around, the general public wants one too, and by then some more of the kinks are worked out, and so it can be much more successful. This is true of many big companies and their products of course - the notorious Microsoft 1.0 avoidance advice comes to mind. But it's interesting if you think about it applied to Apple, that perhaps they are only as successful as they are because their first gen products *don't* immediately sell 10 million copies...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: cmpm on April 08, 2010, 03:35 PM
Stuff like this is coming up already for the ipad.

http://www.nirmaltv.com/2010/04/08/free-video-converter-for-ipad/

Convert things to ipadable.
Need one for docs and pdfs and ebooks and more....
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 08, 2010, 03:55 PM
<snip />
Looking back at history, it may have appeared that way with the iPhone 1st gen too. Things that have already been mentioned in this thread like the atrocious handling if iWork documents sync, or the necessity of connecting to a primary computer system to even use the thing (forget about it being a great system for "grandma" or "average user" unless they already have a different PC, so let's drop that argument!). Not to mention the apparent issues with weight and ergonomics.

I think that their 1st gen products are historically usable, but not as polished as their mystique has made it out to be.  Look at the 1st gen iPod... it was an interesting idea, but nothing that I wanted.  But since it was usable in it's niche, they made enough money to stick around for a 2nd gen.  I think that they depend upon that, truthfully.  They have been unable to compete with Microsoft in the short game, so they've focused on the long game, and done a pretty good job of it also.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 08, 2010, 04:59 PM
In the end, I think it all comes down to the amount of personal control you're willing to give up for what you think you'll get in return.

Some people don't feel the need to look much beyond what's in front of them so long as they believe they're getting what they want.

For people like this, Apple products are a match made in heaven. Immediate gratification and no-brainer choices are a big plus as far as they're concerned.

More power to them.

It's also worth noting that owning the 'correct' brand of something is very important to these folks. Correct brand names provide instant credibility and validation - something George Alistair Sanger (aka The Fat Man*) once described as: Buying your cool.

The way 'buying your cool works' is that you don't need to know squat about something just so long as you can name drop and shoot the breeze without sounding too stupid.

Owning the right stuff grants you permission to name drop; whereas shooting the breeze (without sounding stupid) is more of a personal gift. Nice to have, but not crucial.

Many blog sites have proven that not having such a gift is still no impediment if you're a real Apple fanboy.


Then there's people (like so many of us) who are only willing to give up so much personal control - and so much personal choice - before we say: You can keep it!

This is the crowd who insists on having the final say on how their technology works, and even more importantly, what they're allowed to do with it. And if too many strings come attached to something, they won't care if it can hand them the world on a silver platter - they ain't gonna buy it.

"Different strokes for different folks!" as the old song goes. :P

I'm not a Mac...

And I'm sure as hell not a PC!

I'm not anything but me. 8)

Now...who are you?  :)



-----

Note: This is The Fat Man himself in one of his trademark spangled cowboy suits:

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

He's not fat at all. And he's also from Maine - so why is he wearing a spangly cowboy suit?

Curious, no? ;)

http://fatman.com/


Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: zridling on April 08, 2010, 05:33 PM
Is it only about the money and "instant cool" though? I can't recall Jobs doing anything charitable on any scale with his company or his gadgets. Whatever I may think of Mr. Gates's company, the man has spent the last decade giving back around the globe in demonstrable ways. It's like the guy (Arnold?) who went out and bought the biggest Hummer made just to show that he could burn more gas than your biggest SUV. Or perhaps the rich lady who spends tens of thousands of dollars on a special purse to carry their fluffy dog around with them in airports. And SuperboyAC, most of the Apple people I know are on my teevee, telling me how great their new shiny toy is. No matter how hard I try, I can't respect CNBC's Erin Burnett.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: superboyac on April 08, 2010, 07:20 PM
Is it only about the money and "instant cool" though? I can't recall Jobs doing anything charitable on any scale with his company or his gadgets. Whatever I may think of Mr. Gates's company, the man has spent the last decade giving back around the globe in demonstrable ways. It's like the guy (Arnold?) who went out and bought the biggest Hummer made just to show that he could burn more gas than your biggest SUV. Or perhaps the rich lady who spends tens of thousands of dollars on a special purse to carry their fluffy dog around with them in airports. And SuperboyAC, most of the Apple people I know are on my teevee, telling me how great their new shiny toy is. No matter how hard I try, I can't respect CNBC's Erin Burnett.
Ha!  yeah, I'm on your side.  All I'm saying is that a few years ago, I would have bashed apple to a pulp.  now, I really see how it makes sense to other people.  I still will never get one, but I'm not so vocal about bashing it anymore.  I mean, especially when guys like Stephen Fry and my other smart friends can intelligently rationalize why it makes sense to them, I give them that respect.

The other great thing about Apple is it gets people off my back.  back in the day, i'd jump at the chance to fix any problem anyone had with technology.  Now, I pray that they don't bother me about this stuff.  So, if they are happy or think they are happy with their ipod or ipad, good.  They leave me alone with my gadgets, and I leave them alone with my (superior) gadgets.  That's a big reason why I've softened my stance.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 08, 2010, 07:37 PM
40hz, perhaps you're not really suggesting that there are "only" these 2 camps, but even suggesting they're the majority seems dubious to me. I think both the gadget/brand nuts and the tech nuts like us are in the minority. It's the reaction of the average people that everyone claims is Apple's market that I'm interested in.

So many arguments about the iPad have gone Person 1: "I hate it, it locks me in to proprietary Apple stuff and doesn't let me do what I want, therefore it will fail!" Person 2: "It's not even meant for you, it's super simple and easy to use, it's meant for average Joe who doesn't even want to think about how to use his computer.", and the latter *would* be a compelling argument if it weren't for some of the comments I'm hearing about "hard to hold and use for long periods of time", "awkward to watch movies on", "expensive for an e-reader", "no direct camera connections", "no USB, easy plug-and-play", "need to use cumbersome iTunes-based process to sync docs with wires, does not work wirelessly", "no flash", and on and on. Thse don't seem like a product that the mainstream, "average Joe" will love.

Not to mention the frustration that will come when a user removes an app from their iPad for whatever reason, only to lose all their documents associated with it. I mean seriously, is that the message Apple wants the average consumer to get?

The sad thing is I think it *will* appeal to average people on the face of it, and it'll only be after some use that they realize how awkward, annoying, etc. it is. I'm just baffled by how bad a first gen Apple product really can be, I guess. I mean they got so much right, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the core concept - I'm not against a simple pad-like device, even if it runs iPhone OS and is limited in some ways - but it really seems like there are some all-too-glaring faults to me. *shrug*

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: cmpm on April 08, 2010, 07:53 PM
With it's limitations and lack of up to date connections.
(Should be USB 3 on there)

Seems like something to find at a yard sale for 5 or 10 bucks.
16gb? Sheesh!
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 08, 2010, 10:30 PM
40hz, perhaps you're not really suggesting that there are "only" these 2 camps, but even suggesting they're the majority seems dubious to me.

The sad thing is I think it *will* appeal to average people
- Oshyan

Actually, for the purposes of this discussion, I am suggesting just that.  :)

But I don't mean to imply either side has an automatic advantage when it comes to technical sophistication or depth of knowledge. Sorry if I might have come across that way.

To me it comes down to whether or not you're comfortable living within a completely closed information and software ecosystem.

If you don't have a problem with that, Apple's product philosophy will work for you.

If you do have a problem with some entity arbitrarily deciding what you can have and what you can do with it, then it won't. And that's a problem that will remain for this group even if they never actually do exercise their freedom of choice. Having available options is what's crucial to them.

Group A-types believe in the notion of a single "best" way to do things.

Group B-types believe in the notion of a selection of "better" ways  to accomplish things.

So yeah, I guess I really do believe it breaks down into two groups.

The funny thing (to me) is how I keep hearing about the so-called "average person" or "average computer user." From my experience, I'm firmly convinced there's no such a thing - unless you want to apply that label to all the people who don't much care what they use and who therefor take whatever they're given.

Again, this is just my two cents on the topic - but I see a very significant crossroad coming up for the personal computing community. And I see the iPad as one of the first manifestations of the direction it could go in if this product (or some philosophical equivalent) gains widespread market acceptance.

Apple always maintained they were more about vision, ideas, and attitudes than they were about physical products. I think the iPhone and iPad represent an alternate vision of where Apple thinks the world is going (or should be going) when it comes to ubiquitous data access and communications.

It's hard not to sound melodramatic, but the simple truth is there's an awful lot at stake here. You have two irreconcilable visions of how the future web and infospace should work.

And the market will ultimately decide which path the world will go down based on what sells best.

So I guess we'll have to just wait and see if George Orwell - or should I say Steve Jobs(?) - is right.

 8)


-----

Note: did a minor edit to correct the grammar in one rambling sentence.
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: JavaJones on April 09, 2010, 12:14 AM
OK, so I get the split between those who care - whether in principle or otherwise - about "lock-in" and those who don't. Makes perfect senes, and I agree. This does not surprise or bother me at all; it makes perfect sense. And in fact it mirrors much of the way the rest of the world works, for example the difference between politically active people and those who just don't care about politics (even if they still vote).

What *does* surprise me is how Apple is screwing its target demographic of "those who don't care about lock-in" with all these bizarre limits, issues, etc. I guess it just surprises me that they get away with it.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: 40hz on April 09, 2010, 05:16 AM
it mirrors much of the way the rest of the world works, for example the difference between politically active people and those who just don't care about politics (even if they still vote).

I agree with you 100%  :Thmbsup:

What *does* surprise me is how Apple is screwing its target demographic of "those who don't care about lock-in" with all these bizarre limits, issues, etc. I guess it just surprises me that they get away with it.

I guess it surprises me too - even though it shouldn't any more.

But isn't that just another example of your excellent point that it's much of the way the rest of the world works?  :)

People often treat others in a shabby manner courtesy of the meme which says: those who allow themselves to be pushed around "don't deserve" to be treated any better.

 :o




Title: Re: First iPad Reviews Are In
Post by: wraith808 on April 09, 2010, 08:36 AM
The big thing about this 'closed ecosystem' mentality is that for most people for most devices, this has always been the case.  Cell phone?  Unless you get a smartphone, it's pretty much closed in any case.  And people want their phones to work first and foremost as a phone.  That's why I defected from WinMo... as much as I wanted to be on a platform I could actually program for using my existing skillset, the fact that my phone crashed so often was a disconcerting thing.  And it didn't get better at a speed that made me comfortable.  My last WinMo phone was only a little over a year ago.  And my wife had to use it after me for a bit until I could get her iPhone.. she's not a techie by any means, though she does have a bit of technical know how.  She longed for her LG Shine over the WinMo phone that I gave her, and was ready to throw it out of the window.  Closed ecosystem or not, the iPhone just works, and she's not in any way frustrated with it.  Before the phone it was the MP3 player for Apple.  Again, how many people *really* did anything out of the ecosystem of MP3 players?  What difference does it being closed matter to most people?  Not much, I hazard to say.  And the iPod, again, just works.  I loved my Rio Karma, but in the end, the experience between the Karma and the iPod were night and day.

So now they find themselves getting into a different market.  I think that's the reason that books are so important on the iPad.  The eBook readers are, again, a closed system.  Sure you can do some thing with them outside of the manufacturer's thinking- but for most people, they are just book readers.  But where I think Apple is going to have to adjust is at the same place they had to adjust on the iPhone... price.  No matter what they say, the price point puts it at the same place as devices with a lot more functionality.  And no matter the additional functionality, perception puts it not much above an eReader or iPhone.  Maybe they can get past this without lowering the price... but I tend to doubt it.