DonationCoder.com Forum
Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: tinyvillager on March 14, 2006, 08:43 PM
-
Word around the campfire is that Vista is set for November.
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1937540,00.asp?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535
Although i've been using XP for a handful of years,it seems like it's taken every bit of that handful of years
to adjust,modify and get it just like i want it and now i like it.I like it to the point where i'm not that excited
about Vista.Personally i could sit on an OS for longer than five years and be content.I don't know,thinking
outloud here i guess,imho i'm just not that hyped about shelling out another 150-200 bucks on an os which
will also force me to shell out more money on hardware just to run it.Like i said just my humble opinion,
whats your thoughts,are you gonna rush out and buy it as soon as it comes out.Not to sound like a google
fanboy,cause i'm not,but i have the strongest feeling and an out and out prediction that Google will release
an OS,if not before Vista,shortly after, i don't care want anyone says and i actually believe it will be
essential to google's survival.
-
I usually wait a year or two after a new Windows version comes out before upgrading. I'm pretty happy with XP, and not in any big hurry to change.
-
[Personal Opinion/Future Prediction]
Vista will be the last big OS release. Web services are maturing to the point where the OS will eventually (the sooner the better) be irrelivant.
[End Opinion/Prediction]
There are still people using Windoze 98. As long as drivers are available and the software they want/need runs, who cares about the OS anyway?
So no, I won't be switching to Vista soon. I'd rather switch to Linux.... :Thmbsup:
-
I'm pretty happy with XP, and not in any big hurry to change.-mrainey
me neither, unless there's some new embedded technologies that requires Vista to work. something like the USB drive/digital camera plug-and-play that came built-in with XP and made life difficult for Win9x users...
-
When WinXP first came out there was a general howling across the web about how all it is is "eye candy" and a resource hog and lots of "I ain't gonna change fer nuthin'" talk.
Big brother M$ can track your computer and get all kinds of information about you (as if spyware and trojans from everywhere wasn't already trying to do the same thing), the .net passport sucks (don't gotta use it) paranoia galore ;D.
Mostly from folks hangin onto their copies of Win98. (Hey :huh: if your too cheap or can't afford a new computer just say so, but the majority of these folks never tryed WinXP or if they had they hadn't enough time to really work with it enough to get a real feel for it.) So they posted a lot from what others were saying.
I read where it was extremely unstable and prone to crash constantly in some forum......where the dinosours roam...yeah that's exactly how I meant to spell it sours.
There're still places that if you say anything negative about Win98, like what a pain it is to alter your apps to be that far back compatable, the hue and cry is deafening.
I've been using WinXP for 5 years now and it's the most stable OS I have ever used.
I like it and make no apologies about it. And I'll never go backward as far as my own personal machine.
My laptop is getting up in age and I fully intend waiting until Vista is available before buying my next system.
I'll be d**ned in 10 years to be one of those crotchety old WinXP users whining about backward compatability for (what will be by then ) my 16 year old computer system.
As much as everyone loves to hate microsoft the real action will always be with their OS.
-
DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM.
-
change can be hard. i know i used to tell everyone how rubbish xp was when it arrived and how fantastic 98 and 2000 were - i thought it was rubbish because when i first installed xp there was a driver problem so i gave up and didn't look at it again for a few months.
i felt like a complete idiot when i finally gave xp another go. it was/is the best operating system i've used so far. okay, so you need the right machine to put it on.
when will i buy vista? not on the day of release but within the first few months - just enough time for driver issues to be sorted. i wouldn't be too surprised if there is a work around for the drm issues (or crack).
i'm happy enough with xp to be honest but i want that 'black' gui that vista has. pathetic reason i know.
-
i have to joint the chorus of winxp praisers. well, 2000 and xp to me are basically the same - the point is that compared to win9x and me, win2k/xp is just 10000x more stable, and it really is quite stable. so kudos to microsoft they did do a good job in that department from my experience.
-
Linux. And that's ALL I have to say. Except I really liked W2K. XP was just fancier.
I just took the (slightly outdated) "What OS are you" quiz on BBSpot (http://www.bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php) and (this is too creepy) guess what?...
I'm "Slackware Linux".
Take a wild flying guess what I run at home...
-
As a long time Windows sufferer (anyone else remember the joys of Windows 2? What about GEM?) I'd like to move to Linux but I have too many bits of hardware without proper Linux drivers (not least my printer and my scanner not to mention most of my USB stuff, including my Canon SLR). The other problem I have with Linux is that I have too much money invested in Windows based software. I know WINE works with some stuff but what is the point of running Linux and then trying to emulate Windows to run Adobe PhotoShop?
Personally I will probably upgrade to Vista at some point, but it will be at least a couple of years after release so that they have time to iron out the major issues that are bound to plague it for at least the first year - Vista SP1 seems like a good target. Win2k/XP are pretty good OSes (not perfect) knocking the earlier versions of Windows out for good but have really only got rid of most of the gremlins in the last couple of years (esp. in XP).
Anyone still using Win98 should either have a damn good reason (like some ancient hardware that is essential to them) or be barking mad ... I still shudder when I think of the amount of time I spent troubleshooting crashes in 98. Anyone still using ME is definitely barking mad - that was even worse than 98 (and that was MS's own judgment).
-
Just as an aside, everyone I ever knew who switched to Linux for one reason or another. Never lasted with it for more than a year. It basically became too much of a hassle.
-
The important part here:
It's not that i don't like linux... But it doesn't run Find And Run Robot ;)
-
I just took the (slightly outdated) "What OS are you" quiz on BBSpot (http://www.bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php) and (this is too creepy) guess what?...-Edvard
haha.. this is quite interesting... :Thmbsup: i came up with:
(http://www.bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/windows_98.jpg) (http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php)
:o :o
-
:o
I wanted to be OS/2 or Debian or something cool...
-
Hmmm ... I seem to be ...
(http://www.bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/01/os_quiz/trsdos.jpg)
which is strange 'cos I've never heard of it. Maybe that's why none of my hardware works ....
-
@Carol- TRS-DOS is (was) the version of DOS that ran on Tandy computers (TRS-80 and the like) back when every computer maker had their own version of BASIC as well.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-DOS
As far as hardware goes, Linux is supported and is supporting more hardware every day. Consulting the home page of your manufacturer would be a good start, but then again you'd have to learn a whole new operating system...
@Cpilot- I've heard stories from all ends of the spectrum; Folks who tried and dropped Linux entirely because it didn't [place gripe here] and never gave it a chance. Some folks gave it a good go and dropped it when their curiosity level hit their tolerance ceiling (usually takes 6 mo. to a year, so your number matches) and some who just somehow "get it" and never look back. I don't think those are going to change very soon, but when Vista does come out, I predict we'll see the cream seperate from the milk.
As far as MS goes, folks can rant about predatory marketing tactics all they want, but the Windows team has really gone out of their way to make it all as easy as possible for the largest common denominator end user. I suppose there are a large contingent of folks out there who actully like Clippy and don't banish the search puppy in XP because they feel it actually helps them. Vista is simply the next level of it, no doubt with some industrial-strength code behind it all (remember... those guys get PAID for what they do...). As much as we all like to say it sometimes, RTFM is some pretty cold advice when someone actually needs help, and that seems to be the Linux battle-hymn some days...
(hehe I just had a thought... You all know the Monty Python 'Spam' skit? Replace "spam, spam, spam, spam" with "R, T, F, M" and you get the picture) :)
-
@Cpilot- I've heard stories from all ends of the spectrum; Folks who tried and dropped Linux entirely because it didn't [place gripe here] and never gave it a chance. Some folks gave it a good go and dropped it when their curiosity level hit their tolerance ceiling (usually takes 6 mo. to a year, so your number matches) and some who just somehow "get it" and never look back. I don't think those are going to change very soon, but when Vista does come out, I predict we'll see the cream seperate from the milk.
-Edvard
Just goes to show that everyone has their preferences.
I've always thought the "OS" wars was kinda silly. Just like the "programming language discussions" you see out there. (which usually become firefights, the way I feel about it is if whatever your using needs to be defended by nasty comments and flame wars then maybe you need to reconsider your software)
People use what they understand and what can get the job done. The question also isn't say...can I install a particular Linux distro and then find and install all the drivers I need for whatever particular applications I want to use...but rather...do I want to?
One thing that constantly gets overlooked by the "software guru's" out there is this. The vast majority of people out there that buy a computer couldn't give a fig about anything more than surfing the net, getting and sending emails, and getting the latest semi nudie music video.....oh yeah and games.
They don't have the inclination or desire to spend hours and hours learning how to set up,configure,tweak and cajole a system into a particular configuration.
That's why virii and trojans are such a problem, it ain't the OS it's the users lack of desire to learn enough about their system to make it safe...or safer if you prefer.
Plug and play...that's the attraction. M$ has got it. That's why it's OS's dominate.
-
@Carol- TRS-DOS is (was) the version of DOS that ran on Tandy computers (TRS-80 and the like) back when every computer maker had their own version of BASIC as well.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-DOS-Edvard
Actually as soon as I saw the word Tandy it all came flooding back ;)
As far as hardware goes, Linux is supported and is supporting more hardware every day. Consulting the home page of your manufacturer would be a good start, but then again you'd have to learn a whole new operating system...
I know that - I actually like Linux as an operating system but I have now tried umpteen different versions over the last 5 years and I have yet to find a single build that can install my hardware set. Almost every version has problems with the various printers I have had - even when they were supported they didn't work properly but three models weren't even supported unless they were emulating an ancient Epson. Given that my main use for a printer is photography this was simply unacceptible. My current printer (a Canon iP5000 which is hardly obscure) isn't supported in any way at all.
I have a bog standard Canon flatbed scanner that just isn't supported.
My sound hardware (an Audigy 2) is supported but only in a very basic way
and it goes on ...
If/when Linux developers and hardware manufacturers start talking to each other I will probably have at least a dual booting system with Linux but until then Linux (for me) is a toy operating system that has lots of potential but no real benefit.
(Sorry I think I probably said all this before somewhere - not very well today so I am rambling!)
-
What about GEM?
From 1985 thru 1990 an Atari ST was my only home computer. GEM seemed pretty neat at the time - I probably wouldn't want to go back. :D
Loved the Atari.
-
What about GEM?
GEM seemed pretty neat at the time - I probably wouldn't want to go back. :D
-mrainey
It was a shame that GEM died ... it was around at the same time as Windows 2 and infinitely superior. Came a cropper because of law suits with Apple if I remember correctly.
-
Draw your own conclusions to this one.
Hackers Get Windows XP on Apple Computers (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060318/D8GDN0JO7.html)
;D
-
I won't use Vista until I absolutely have to. I don't like eyecandy in my OS, and it's one of the first things I turn off in XP (or rather, it used to be, before I set up a decent customized unattended install CD). All the eyecandy crap added to Vista + the DRM shit = no go, bro.
Too bad linux SUCKS, with a kernel designed by people who mentally live in the 70'es. The "user-friendly" distros are even more bloated than XP.
I guess I'll give Mac OS X a try, it's the only decent realistic alternative to windows for desktop use.
-
Usually I wait AT LEAST 6 months on a new OS. I think this time I will wait at least 3-4 years. I am perfectly happy with Windoze XP. I don't even have a problem running Windows2000.
-
I'm happy with WinXP also, and I do intend to wait a short amount of time after rollout on Vista also in order for the kinks to get ironed out. And I'll keep another box for a while with XP installed.
But I intend to move into it, issues or not.
DRM in one form or another is going to be out there in the future anyway, irregardless of Vista.
People mention it whenever a discussion of Vista comes up, with grave concern.(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen0/Small/blabla_sign.gif)
But after doing a search on this forum using the search terms DRM and Digital rights management I found 5 threads mentioning these 2 terms
here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=2617.0), here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=2613.0),here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1387.0), here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1114.0) and here (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1188.0.0).
Now I read through em and while I saw a few dire warnings and predictions, I didn't see where anyone posted anything about anyone monitoring when and by whom any legislation concerning DRM is being proposed or voted on.
I would think that if it's that big of a concern then someone would be pointing out proposed legislation and encouraging the forum members (all 20,085, which ain't a trifle number) to become acquainted with who their congressmen and legislators are in order to email comments and objections.
The only real way to deal with it is to pay attention to the legislation being proposed and make your opinion known.
But since all anyone is talking about is dire warnings and predictions, instead of encouraging taking action, we might as well learn how to deal with it.
And personally I like the eye candy.....
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank. :Thmbsup:
-
nudone - if you want the vista look check out WindowBlinds 5. You can have the look right now for $19.95... There are free icon packages that will convert all of your icons to the new Vista ones to boot (no pun intended). You'll likely wind up upgrading to the ObjectDesktop Suite to allow you to do all this (I did) but the results are really very impressive. I actually got bored of the Vista look/modifying my interface (of course, I'm on a two year old Centrino notebook with a 14" 4:3 monitor) and am back to where f0dder is (and I was for years before a brief 8 week interlude): WinXP in "classic" mode with themes turned off. It just feels "right"! Having said that, though, I am convinced that WB5 was much less resource intensive than M$ own themes service. As an aside, you can run WB5 without the themes service enabled - it handles all skinning duties.
My WB 5 licence is gathering dust... I was impressed with it but finally uninstalled it when I realized that the ONLY reason I had it was for the Vista look and once I got over that there was no point keeping it around. I found that I really wasn't interested in trying out the various available themes ("blinds"). In fact, I had occasion last week to restore a drive image that still had it installed and couldn't bear the look of the Vista theme (though the theme itself was fantastically executed and sadly not available anymore - M$ lawyers had it pulled).
Anyway, just my two bits - you can have the Vista look right now for about $20 ($50 if you go for the entire ObjectDesktop package which includes icon editor and changer).
Like many people here, the only way I'll be moving onto Vista is when I purchase a new computer. I imagine that Vista Sp-2 will out before I do that...
-
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.
I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".
You might not think much of DRM right now and shrug it off as a "It's only the pirates worrying about this". I happen to think differently... I rip all my CDs to lossless audio format (APE or FLAC which sure as hell do NOT do DRM). If Microsoft has their way, I will not be able to do this in the future. Heck, some of my legally purchased CDs I've only been able to rip because I have a plextor drive and plextools. MS and friends are currently developing technologies that will only allow you to have audio output if you output is connected to a "verified device" - much worse than what's currently done with digital out on SPDIF devices.
It's all technology that fooks over regular users, but won't be much of a hindrance for pirates.
Just say NO NO NO and NO NO NO to VISTA. Unless, of course, you love eyecandy and 1984.
-
i am worried about 32bit vs 64bit.
we are forced to upgrade if all software only available in 64 bit in the future.
-
point taken about windowblinds, darwin. i wonder how common it is to install these kinds of programs only to remove them when the novelty is gone. windows classic stays on my machine for 350 days of the year it seems. i don't think any skinning program will ever fully satisfy me as they seem to have glitches here and there - i need gui perfection - and so, there is only the 'classic' look that works 100%. i was just hoping that vista's theme would be just as perfect, i.e. every single button, scroll bar, menu, etc, etc. would be perfectly positioned and clean, regardless of the program windows in view. time will tell.
does anyone know if vista will also have the 'classic' look available?
-
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.
I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".
-f0dder
Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive? Some of us may not be much to look at but we are human beings with the same emotions as everyone else (and perhaps a little more grey matter than women who spend 90% of the time in beauty parlours, in front of the mirror or having surgery).
-
The only real way to deal with it is to pay attention to the legislation being proposed and make your opinion known.
-Cpilot
ROFLMAO - this must be the funiest quote of the day !!!
-
i don't think any skinning program will ever fully satisfy me as they seem to have glitches here and there - i need gui perfection - and so, there is only the 'classic' look that works 100%.
-nudone
I think the glitches are ironed out now but ironically there were quite a few apps when XP was released that refused to work properly with the 'classic' look. Doubtless when Vista is released there will be apps that only support the new eyecandy (assuming there is a candy free version).
-
does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.
best solution to drm madness i guess is to boycott content protected with drm.
-
does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.
best solution to drm madness i guess is to boycott content protected with drm.
-mouser
vista not only has software drm, it also has hardware drm, and everytime you change the motherboard, you need to purchase a new windows licence.
-
I would wait until until the bugs are worked out. It is Microsoft !! :down:
-
Won't use because of DRM = DIgital rights management, Wait until its taken out or given FREE to me.. :) I never payed for xp pro. Dell reinstallation disk from the warehouse where my father works as it was given up and worked fine withouth reactivating on my dell pc. (i have a optiplex gx300). My father works at a homeless center warehouse where they take items that businesses bring for a tax writeoff..
-
vista not only has software drm, it also has hardware drm, and everytime you change the motherboard, you need to purchase a new windows licence.
-kimmchii
I hadn't seen this - are you seriously saying that any change of mobo (even a failure) means you lose your copy of Vista completely?
I seem to remember MS saying you couldn't move XP from one machine to another because activation wouldn't let you. In practice you can reactivate XP as often as you like on as many machines as you like provided you allow 90 days between activations. Even simpler is to phone MS and tell them your machine is hosed and you have bought a new one. If your license isn't OEM there isn't a problem moving XP.
I find it hard to believe that MS would be stupid enough to lock non-OEM Vista to one set of hardware and force the purchase of a new license when a chip blows. If they are planning this then they are seriously shooting themselves in the foot as a lot of computer enthusiasts simply won't do it, and businesses probably won't either once support staff spot the issue.
"Oh it's not working, nasty burning smell, oh I see it is just that 50 cent chip - just a tick I'll just swap your mobo - by the way, have you got a credit card it'll cost you $400 for a new license for Windows?"
-
Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive?
It does take away from my enjoyment of the forum when I come across stuff like this.
-
I hadn't seen this - are you seriously saying that any change of mobo (even a failure) means you lose your copy of Vista completely?
-Carol Haynes
sorry for the wrong info, i think the new licence agreement applies to XP as well.
2/15/2006 Microsoft: Upgraded Motherboard = New Windows Licence (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=79178)
Microsoft recently made a change to the licence agreement saying that a new motherboard is equal to a new computer, hence you need to purchase a new Windows licence.
Here is what Microsoft has to say:
“An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a “new personal computer” to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.”
The reason Microsoft gave for this term is that “Microsoft needed to have one base component “left standing” that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the “heart and soul” of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created.”
Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.
and http://www.aviransplace.com/index.php/archives/2006/02/15/microsoft-upgraded-motherboard-new-licence/ (http://www.aviransplace.com/index.php/archives/2006/02/15/microsoft-upgraded-motherboard-new-licence/).
-
Too bad linux SUCKS, with a kernel designed by people who mentally live in the 70'es. The "user-friendly" distros are even more bloated than XP.
I guess I'll give Mac OS X a try, it's the only decent realistic alternative to windows for desktop use.
-f0dder
Eek, OS war ahead! (Umm... just kidding)
When I said Linux, I meant that as an answer to the question "How long will it take ...". Meaning never. I have decided that with Vista, I'm done trying to keep up with Windows. I certainly can't afford it and buying hardware based on whether it is compatible with Linux beats having to buy a whole new system because Microsoft decides to touch-up their paint job. Actually, Microsoft has done a good job to build a computing platform that is easy to use and available anywhere you care to look, runs 80-90% of the available software on the web, and MOST of the time requires a minimum of tweaking to "Just Work", sure I'll give 'em that. But I really don't understand what folks mean when they say 'Linux sucks' and I fire up my box and have no problems. Really, none. Sure it's been a long and many times hard road. Giving the details would make for a really long post. The bottom line is, it seems MS have successfully achieved a certain level of power vs. ease of use (which I think they did a mighty fine job of doing with W2K, why'd they have to go and ruin it?...) but it seems like now they are just piling on the sugar and MSG and making you pay for it. It's like wanting bagels, getting frosted donuts, getting charged for cream filled puff pastries and asked to sign up for the "Eclair of the month" club (for a hefty fee, of course) and ending up with a craving to make your own damn bagels after wiping the chocolate sprinkles off your face. I would encourage giving Mac a try. BSD under the hood can't be a bad thing and I predict great things happening in Mac-land, especially since being ported to Intel chipsets and Mac Minis making it affordable.
@kimmchii and Carol,
Also, you should check into the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance and what they are attempting to do...
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing_Platform_Alliance
http://www.againsttcpa.com/
I bought my copy of XP bundled OEM with a new harddrive (?!?!) so I guess as long as my harddrive holds out, so does my license? I've transferred my XP twice now (about 3 weeks ago was the last one) and they've always given me a new activation. Over the phone, even.
-
Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.-kimmchii
This is a reasonable condition because the whole point of OEM is that it is tied to hardware. This shouldn't affect people who have faulty machines because presumably OEM manufacturers should do the decent thing and replace the computer (which will come with it's own OEM Windows).
After guarantee ends if the mobo dies then most people who buy computers will go out and buy a new one rather than replacing the mobo (even if they only buy a bare bones system).
Add to that OEM versions are often preinstalled and most vendors no longer supply an original MS Windows installer disc then it would mean it would be very difficult to even install Windows on the new mobo (unless it is an identical model - unlikely to be available after the guarantee period).
This isn't actually anything to do with DRM anyway which is to do with protecting the rights of companies who provide downloadable music and video, though presumably this could in time be extended to software downloads.
-
I bought my copy of XP bundled OEM with a new harddrive (?!?!) so I guess as long as my harddrive holds out, so does my license? I've transferred my XP twice now (about 3 weeks ago was the last one) and they've always given me a new activation. Over the phone, even.
As far as i know this user agreement already is a bit old, and not if ur hardrive goes out u still can use the OEM's disk on your computer, its just the motherboard. and ur lucky, i could never tranfer a licence on this xp installation oem disk they said the numbers i had didn't exist (really they did)..so I am stuck, however this optiplex gx300 takes the disk without any activation key, noting the disk did come with a newer pc than mine as i was stuck with only 98 and 98SE that came with it and was surprised i didn't have to activate the OEM disk on this ol' pentium 3 733mhz thing..hehehe. ;)
-
does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.
It sure IS going to make a difference once palladium-enabled systems pop up... you feel like installing and booting another operating system? no-go, if it's not "approved". You'll have hardware + OS enforced DRM. Want to play DRM music? Sure thing, unless you're trying to play to an analog output or a digital output connected to an "insecure" device.
They might not get it right with the first edition of Vista and Palladium, just like the pretty strong original XBOX encryption was defeated too. But there's some VERY scary perspectives here, which (as usual) is going to hit the legit end-users a lot harder than the pirates. This time it's for real, *hard* OS and and hardware enforced restrictions on what you can do with YOUR hardware.
But I really don't understand what folks mean when they say 'Linux sucks' and I fire up my box and have no problems. Really, none. Sure it's been a long and many times hard road. Giving the details would make for a really long post.
It would be an equivalently long post if I was going to ratify "why linux sucks". I'm pretty familiar with linux and BSD and don't have trouble managing either. But no way in hell I could be bothered running any of these for my desktop. There's simply too many annoyances, quirks, and really boring trivial things you have to do manually.
I would encourage giving Mac a try. BSD under the hood can't be a bad thing and I predict great things happening in Mac-land, especially since being ported to Intel chipsets and Mac Minis making it affordable.
Yup, BSD + MACH + NeXT under the hood == not a bad thing indeed. I'm not all too happy with the move to intel hardware since there's so much crappy legacy with the x86 system. But oh well, it should make things more affordable. Just hope that Apple won't go as DRM-crazy as MS are... and that applications will support three-button mice in a comfortable way, I've always hated the one-button-and-keyboard-modifiers approach that Macs used to have.
As for OEM XP versions, there are a few different ways that this works. If you buy eg a DELL PC, you have one form of OEM. This is hardware tied to some strings in your BIOS, so you can only use that OEM with DELL computers. If you buy a piece-of-hardware + OEM XP, that copy will not be hardware tied, and you'll have the usual "you can change 3 pieces of hardware before you need to call the toll-free MS number and explain why so much hardware has changed and get your 25-digit unlock code". Christ I'm glad I have a corporate/VLK version.
-
I intend to wait until I upgrade to my next computer, and thus have a fresh start with Vista. As others have noted, XP is so stable at this point that I'm neither compelled nor anxious to switch. However, Microsoft Office 12 could change everything.
-
This thread is moot for now.
Vista debut hits a delay (http://news.com.com/Vista+debut+hits+a+delay/2100-1016_3-6052270.html?tag=nefd.lede)
-
Microsoft Office 12 could change everything.
-zridling
Why - will it add anything people want?
I splashed out on an Office XP upgrade when it came out and was really disappointed as it didn't seem to add anything useful on top of Office 2000 (except activation which is a pain). I haven't bothered with Office 2003 because almost all reviews I read said unless you use it in a coroporate environment there isn't much new (except Outlook has a new layout). There is going to have to be a very good reason for me to upgrade again.
-
I intend to switch to Vista within a day or two of it coming out.
I am HP-UX BTW:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
-
From what I've seen and read in reviews on the web, the three main "imrovements" are new file formats based on xml, pdf support, and the replacement of the menu/toolbar with 'ribbons' that change content/format contextually. As I already have full pdf support courtesy of Nuance PDF Converter Pro (and have an old copy of Adobe Acrobat Pro 5 kicking around to boot) I don't see much that would compel me to upgrade, either. Don't get me wrong; I'd *like* to upgrade because I'm addicted to having the latest, greatest version of each package on my machine, but having just splashed out for Office 2003 Pro I can't justify more money anytime soon. The UI for 2003 is sufficiently different from that for 2000 that it's still "novel" (though I don't notice much difference in comparison to 2000).
I suppose the impetus to upgrade will come from the new file formats - if I find that *everyone* is using them, I may be forced to upgrade. Somehow, though, I think that they'll be putting out Office 14+ before this really becomes an issue. If it happens before then, there is always Open/StarOffice, which I am sure will support the new formats very quickly after Office 12 is released into the wild...
Just my 2-bits.
-
I may upgrade to Vista sooner than I thought: my primary notebook is getting on for three years old and they've just delayed Vista's release again. I have a feeling that I'll be looking for a new notebook this time next year, which seems to be about when Vista will be out so I'll likely wind up with it installed by the manufacturer... Unless, of course I go full hog down the OS-X route. That's doubtful as I already have an older iBook running Jaguar and while I *like* it, I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to make the shift away from Windows. It's likely my greater familiarity with Windows, but I STILL feel that I am more in control of my machine and "user experience" under Windows than I am using OS-X (or 9.22, which I have runing on an old iMac). I am in the minority camp that can see the strengths and weaknesses of both OS's, rather than ranting and raving about the inherent superiority of one over the other (in the wild there seem to be more raving Mac fanatics... than raving Windows lunatics ;)).
-
I dunno how much the new XML-based file formats will really matter. Sure, XML is easier to parse than a binary format, but afaik Microsoft decided not to make the necessary schemas open after all. WinFS and other "interesting" things were dropped anyway, which is probably good since they didn't really make much sense and would have made the system even more bloated than it's already going to be.
-
From what I've seen and read in reviews on the web, the three main "imrovements" are new file formats based on xml, pdf support, and the replacement of the menu/toolbar with 'ribbons' that change content/format contextually.
-Darwin
So long as the new version will still read and write files from older Office versions (and on past performance it will) the XML formats won't make a huge difference to the average user. PDF is easily supported anyway - and I'd prefer to have an application independent solution such as Nitro PDF (actually I just upgraded to Adobe Design Suite CS2 so I have Acrobat Pro). Ribbons intead of toolbars? Sounds like another eyecandy issue ... as for context sensitive menus I always turn them off in Office otherwise I can never find the option I'm looking for!
-
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.
I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".
-f0dder
Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive? Some of us may not be much to look at but we are human beings with the same emotions as everyone else (and perhaps a little more grey matter than women who spend 90% of the time in beauty parlours, in front of the mirror or having surgery).
-Carol Haynes
You are not alone, Carol.
P.S. That's a lot of quotes.
-
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.
I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".
-f0dder
Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive? Some of us may not be much to look at but we are human beings with the same emotions as everyone else (and perhaps a little more grey matter than women who spend 90% of the time in beauty parlours, in front of the mirror or having surgery).
-Carol Haynes
The difference here, if I may -- not everyone is expected to be drop dead gorgeous, by any means. And anyone who says one can be measured by their beauty is a fool. However, in this instance, the product is largely being sold on an aesthetic basis -- and, like the models in the magazines, if you're selling beauty--then we want beauty. I don't expect my wife to look like a centerfold--and think no less of her if she doesn't--but, damnit, that centerfold sure better look like one -- that's what she's paid for!
Note: I'm probably the last person who should be drawing this analogy, I don't much care for makeup or centerfold types . . . I like my women like I like my operating system: plain and efficient/sufficient. :)
-
Ok before everyone gets carried away with the "slattern" analogy I think a lookup on dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slattern) is in order. First of all it has nothing to do with makeup or beauty. The definition I was going for was the most common ie:
slat·tern n.
An untidy, dirty woman.
You see under the conventional definition one has to go out of their way to be untidy and dirty.
The point being, like it or not, most people respond to things that are attractive. If an application or OS is pleasing to someone's eyes they have a tendency to look at it more, instead of flinch away. It's the primary reason there's windows. A lot of stuff can be just as easily done in console mode...but it ain't as purty.
If you care to narrowly define things to their absolute functionality then that's fine. But the truth is for most consumers, of anything, the eye has to be pleased first before they consider quality.
And if you notice for the most part, with almost all shareware offerings there is an attempt to make the application look attractive.
That's just good marketing.
Computers and the web are no longer the sole domain of geeks and techies, as the internet becomes more consumer driven aesthetics will become more important as more and more companies try to get the attention of more and more consumers.
personal feelings aside it's inevitable, and I would rather just try and keep up to date and enjoy whatever benefits the new technology brings. And learn the pitfalls sooner than later.
-
Carol, from the several beta testers I've spoken with, they all love Office 12 once they got accustomed to the lack of a toolbar, which in their words did not take long at all. It does provide backward compatibility, and I spend most of my day between UltraEdit, Microsoft Word, and Excel. Office 2003 was a great bug fix of 2002, but little changed except for speed and stability.
I'll probably buy the premium version of Vista to take advantage of the interface improvements, and have Office 12 within a new OS would be cool. I just don't want to buy two versions, first a 32-bit, and then have to turn around in 2-3 years and buy a 64-bit version of Vista. That would bite, so I'm likely waiting until SP1 comes out.
-
I would wait a couple of year at least until the majority of bugs are worked out. :down:
How long has XP been out and how many fixs' have they released. I can understand that you need fixs' to enhance the product, but the thing that annoys me is the number of security threats that they seem to be plugin.
I seriously hope that they have learned from the security issues and at least visited them in the new version.
Additionally, by waiting a couple of years it will allow new programs to be availabe which will run on 64 bit and hopefully be time to upgrade to a better processor.
That my pennies worth. 8)
-
For some reason I'm just not all that excited my Vista. I'm sure the new look will be cool but I really want my OS to be functional but for the most part stay out of the way. For me the big step forward was win2000 when suddenly most directx stuff started working under NT. I use XP and it is fine but what could possible be in vista that is going to really make me want to switch? No doubt I will eventually and I'm sure I'll play with it on day one but I bet I hold off on upgrading.
I just bought a MacBook Pro and so far I'm really liking OS X.
-
I will NEVER buy it!
I might have to use it (at work for example) but I will go to great lengths to avoid that.
-
Crap.. I wish I had been around when this topic was started. There is no way in hell I will read all of the above. I want to jump on the Vista bandwagon ASAP because I'm very excited about Vista. I've read a lot about it and can't wait to use it. It's not just another Windows version, just like that.. it's a major overhaul of everything that's under the hood, which makes Vista very intriguing and interesting to me. What I don't look forward to is having to buy a new computer :/
-
I'm waiting for Vista. Love its look. My recently upgraded 'puter should handle the Glass.
-
They have not yet got all the bugs out of Windows XP.
I will be waiting awhile before I upgrade. My girlfriend is a Tech and even she is not gonna run out to buy the latest greatest OS Vista. I do not know Windows XP Pro as well as I know Windows 95,98,98SE,ME. So I am waiting until I know Windows XP Pro as well if not better that previous versions of Windows.
Knowing Windows "There will be a lot of bugs." There always is.
-
It depends how many 64nit programs and drivers are available at this time.
But I think I will wait 1 year after release before I will buy it
-
I probably won't upgrade to Vista until XP has hit end of life and will no longer receive security updates....about 5-6 years after Vista is released for general use.
I still have 9x on my other pc and only recently finally got XP...and only because I have a new pc that came with it.
And the thing I hated most with XP out of the box is that childish look it has with XP themes. I have it set to use the classic 9x look...I like it much better and think it's much more attractive. I will NOT be upgrading for silly eye candy.
I will have to be FORCED to upgrade...like I was forced into XP.
and as far as Office forcing me...not gonna happen...I still have and use Office 97....and an older full version of 602Pro PC Suite...and Open Office is a viable alternative. ;D