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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: Josh on June 23, 2009, 07:52 PM
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I am tired of reading through reviews trying to decide on a NAS drive enclosure that serves up files via the DLNA protocol. I want an enclosure as opposed to a device which comes with drives. I have the hard drives and want to use them as they are. Has anyone had any experience with a solution that would support 2 or more SATA disks?
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How many drives to do you want your NAS to have and what's the price range you are willing to pay. When it comes to NAS units the more features it has the bigger the price and there's a steep incline when it comes to prices on these things. You can go from the $150-200 range to the $1,000-$1,200 range without much effort.
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Looking for between 2-4 drives and the only CRITICAL feature is DLNA support so I do not have to run a dedicated DLNA server on a PC system (Tversity).
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Synology.com look like they have very nice range of products and are currently waiting for DLNA certification status.
Check out their forums for DLNA commentary about where they are.
I'd guess it depends how quickly you need the device.
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the only CRITICAL feature is DLNA support
-Josh
If you need to be super careful, you might want to start here to get a list of what is currently DLNA certified:
http://certification.dlna.org/products/
They're currently showing 44 NAS products that hold certification.
AFAIK dlna.org doesn't cert unloaded NAS enclosures, so you'll need to trust the manufacturer's word for it if you're buying a NAS without any drives installed. (I'd personally not worry too much about certification, but you may feel otherwise.)
Also note: empty NAS boxes aren't usually all that much cheaper than loaded ones. Especially now that the prices of drives are as low as they are. So you might want to think about just how much you'll save vs the potential for hassles down the road.
Luck! :Thmbsup:
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Not exactly what's being discussed but a reasonably-priced newcomer (http://www.dailytech.com/Western+Digital+Unveils+4TB+NAS+Works+With+PC+Xbox+PS3/article15518.htm), FWIW.
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The user reviews of WD 'Books' I have read have not been over complimentary.
I installed one of these for a client: http://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-ReadyNAS-Duo-RND2000-Ethernet/dp/tech-data/B001O35S7M
Quite nicely made and doesn't require any software on client machines (although you can install the supplied software if you want).
Has remote access too. Mirrored RAID as standard with two drives installed.
Not DLNA compliant though as far as I know.
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Not DLNA compliant though as far as I know.
-Carol Haynes
This one says "it is compatible with PCs, Macs, and any other DLNA media player like the PS3 and Xbox 360."
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Just had a thought...
If you're moderately ambitious, you could also build your own media server and get exactly what you want. It's not all that hard to do.
Here's the big three open source products if you're interested in taking a look. They're free. And the underlying code is the same as what's supplied with most of the pre-built NAS boxes you'll be looking at anyway. All of them are UPnP compliant.
Geexbox http://www.geexbox.org/en/index.html - one of the most popular servers out there
LinuxMCE http://linuxmce.com - powerful, elegant, and all inclusive.
There's a great video that walks you through the entire feature set and installation if you'd like a closer look at this media monster. Info and links can be found at http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Video
MediaTomb http://mediatomb.cc/ - powerful new kid on the block
Just one more thing to think about. ;D
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Geexbox http://www.geexbox.org/en/index.html - one of the most popular servers out there
LinuxMCE http://linuxmce.com - powerful, elegant, and all inclusive.
There's a great video that walks you through the entire feature set and installation if you'd like a closer look at this media monster. Info and links can be found at http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Video
MediaTomb http://mediatomb.cc/ - powerful new kid on the block
-40hz
You forgot the most obvious: FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/) - UPnP and DLNA since 2007
I'd also build my own, it would probably work out cheaper and perform better.
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You forgot the most obvious: FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/) - UPnP and DLNA since 2007
-4wd
@4wd -you're absolutely right. I did forget. Doh! ;D
FreeNAS an excellent choice if you don't need all the multimedia bells & whistles. FreeNAS works well with Geexbox too!
Build yourself an inexpensive, energy efficient ITX-based server and you'd be good as gold. Once it's set up you could even disable onboard video since you'll be administrating it through the web interface.
BTW: If you have an old PC floating around, you might consider installing and testing on that prior to committing to a new build. No point spending money until you know whether or not you actually like it. That's what I'd do.
8)
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Stay away from Western Digital in this regard. Nearly every external storage device they have made has been a 'hard drive death trap' plagued by inadequate cooling. I won't even go into the bone-headed move they pulled off when one of the 'features' of their device was it decided for you what types of files could be shared over the internet for fear of copyright violations.
Carol nailed it, though. For stand-alone appliances you can't go wrong with Synology if they are in your price range. They have a very active user community where lots of functionality is being added to Synology devices by very talented modders.
Josh sounds like he wants a device he can just tuck away in a corner somewhere and forget so I won't go into the build-your-own solutions.
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FreeNAS an excellent choice if you don't need all the multimedia bells & whistles. FreeNAS works well with Geexbox too!
Build yourself an inexpensive, energy efficient ITX-based server and you'd be good as gold. Once it's set up you could even disable onboard video since you'll be administrating it through the web interface.
-40hz
I'd agree with this - Mini-ITX based server will have more grunt and flexibility than almost any off-the-shelf NAS solution for SOHO application - and it will still cost less.
eg.
Atom based Mini-ITX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121342) ~$65 @ Newegg
2GB of RAM ~$20
4 port SATA PCI (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4660) ~$20
Case + PSU free (If you can't find a case for nothing, you ain't looking hard enough :) )
FreeNAS free
2GB Flash drive ~$10 (To install and run FreeNAS from)
Which only leaves your HDDs which you have to buy anyway - so for ~$115 you end up with a very flexible 0 - 6 disk NAS server, the equivalent price of many single disk dedicated NAS hardware devices.
I've seen a build that consisted of a VIA EPIA Mini-ITX board coupled with an SATA 4 port PCI card and a Addonics 5SA (http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/ae4rcs35nsa.asp) disk array housed in a Shuttle XPC size case running FreeNAS off a CompactFlash card - very nice and very portable.
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@4wd - Nice build! w00t! :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:
I was going to spec one as an example, but you beat me to it - along with the price point I came up with. (My configuration came in at $138!)
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@Josh - If you do build something like this, get over the natural tendency to try to cram everything into the smallest enclosure possible. Especially if it's a server that's going to be tucked out of sight behind a desk somewhere.
A decent quality mid-tower gives you the best bang for the buck, along with more airspace around your hot components. Recycling is also an option. Take the savings and invest in a better quality power supply if you have extra cash left over.
Small enclosures build up a lot of heat once you put a CPU and some hard drives in them. They're generally harder to work with, and cost a lot more to purchase.
Most of the power supplies that ship with small box enclosures also lack the capacity needed for multiple hard drives. So if you're planning to install more than one HD, start thinking outside the 'little' box.
Be sure to tally up the power requirements of each component in your build. Then do the math to get a correctly sized PS. You'll also want to factor in some additional capacity since your server will probably be left on 24/7. In situations like that, you never want to run your PS at near-100% load. Giving yourself an additional 20-30% will improve stability, increase operational life, and reduce generated heat. If the power supply has a variable speed fan, those lower temperatures will also result in quieter operation.
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Another alternative to building from scratch is to look into some of the remarkably inexpensive "bare-bones" computer kits. Do a Google search on barebones computer to get and idea of what's available.
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Be sure to tally up the power requirements of each component in your build. Then do the math to get a correctly sized PS. -40hz
Or let someone else do the math: eXtreme Power Supply Calculator (http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp)
Why burn out your braincells ? :P
Using the combo above plus 4 Green SATA HDDs gives a system power figure of 68W, (which I'd say is pretty close), and it will be less because there will be no keyboard/mouse connected normally.
So a 150W PSU is ample and will actually not be running at peak efficiency since it's well under %80 load all the time.
Once it's set up you could even disable onboard video since you'll be administrating it through the web interface.
I'm not sure it would actually honour the setting if it detects no video card installed since you need some way to display the BIOS if you need to and the only way if it did allow it would be to reset the CMOS and lose all your settings.
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I am liking that idea 4wd. I might just start asking for tips in configuring my machine :)
Thanks for the tips!
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Be sure to tally up the power requirements of each component in your build. Then do the math to get a correctly sized PS. -40hz
Or let someone else do the math: eXtreme Power Supply Calculator (http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp)
Why burn out your braincells ? :P
Using the combo above plus 4 Green SATA HDDs gives a system power figure of 68W, (which I'd say is pretty close), and it will be less because there will be no keyboard/mouse connected normally.
So a 150W PSU is ample and will actually not be running at peak efficiency since it's well under %80 load all the time.
-4wd
So there you have it Josh. More capacity, more power, better component quality - and best of all - it's done your way! What's not to like about that?
:Thmbsup:
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I am liking that idea 4wd. I might just start asking for tips in configuring my machine :)
-Josh
If you need Gigabit networking then you'll need to install a Gigabit card since the onboard LAN is only 10/100 - you then lose your SATA 4 port card.
An alternative if you need the GigaBit is to use a Addonics SATA port multiplier. The 5x1 Internal (http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm.asp) will still give you a total of 6 SATA ports, albeit at a cost of $75. You might want to email them first and check motherboard SATA controller compatibility with it first. Although, IIRC, provision for port multipliers is part of the SATA-II specification.
You can always add wireless through the use of a supported USB adapter.
Or, if you don't need Gigabit, use the port multiplier then you have a free PCI slot for a $23 WiFi/BT (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12419) card so you can use your Logitech Dinovo Edge (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/192&cl=US,EN) keyboard, (which you already use for your uber-HTPC), to control it :P
I just love spending money when it's not mine :D
Actually, to keep it a little neater, grab a IDE-to-CF adapter (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10309) and 2GB CompactFlash (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14277) card and use the IDE port on the motherboard instead of a 2GB flash drive for the OS. It will keep everything internal then.
EDIT: Scratch the port multiplier idea, the ICH7 Southbridge doesn't support them. Only ICH9 and above.
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Just a followup to this, for building your own NAS you might want to check out SmallNetBuilder (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/).
Especially their forums (http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php) where you can be pretty sure someone has already tried to build a NAS using hardware similar to what you want to or might use.
And a range of How To articles like this one for an Atom based NAS (http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/30571/77/).
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This is a great thread. I'm going to do the same thing. I want to build a NAS or server box that I can put at my sister's house as an off-site backup for all my stuff. Because even though i backup with multiple redundancy, it's all in one location, and in the rare case of theft or something, someone can easily take all my computer equipment and I'd be devastated.
So, great thread! 40hz, once again...always a few steps ahead of me!!
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Something loosely related:
I bought an external WD hard drive recently, my WLAN router only supports USB 1.1 however, so using it is a pain. What would be the cheapest way to bring the HD with USB 2.0 into my network? Is there some "USB hard disk to WLAN adapter", or should I upgrade my router? (About 100 Euros for a suitable model seems to be quite much to me.)
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What would be the cheapest way to bring the HD with USB 2.0 into my network? Is there some "USB hard disk to WLAN adapter", or should I upgrade my router?-Tuxman
How about US$50?
Addonics NAS adapter (http://www.addonics.com/products/nas/nasu2.asp).
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Or, if you want Gb then Addonics NAS Adapter V2 (http://www.addonics.com/products/nas/NAS2XU2.asp) for US$60.
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Or, a Linksys NSLU2 (http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/NSLU2).
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With the NSLU2 there are alternative firmwares available, see References section in Wikipediaw.
There's also the Hitachi SimpleNET (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002CMEIV6/ref=asc_df_B002CMEIV6994674?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=googlecom09c9-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002CMEIV6) adapter for US$68 on Amazon, (which looks like the Addonics NAS Adapter V2).
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Now these NAS adapters need to be attached to my router anyway... so we're back on USB 1.1 then, right?
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Now these NAS adapters need to be attached to my router anyway... so we're back on USB 1.1 then, right?-Tuxman
The adapter plugs into the 100Mbps network and your USB2.0 HDD plugs into it - so let's be generous and say you'll get around 8MB/s read/write to the drive.
USB1.1 is 12Mbps, so you'll get approx. 7 times USB1.1 data rate, (after overheads).
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With my current USB port (on the router), I reach about 300 KB/s. ;D
(Via WLAN.)
OK, I presume that my router supports 100 Mbit LAN :D ... sounds fair then. Thank you. :)
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If you want to upgrade your whole router and get access to the USB HDD also, check out the new NetGear WNR3500L (http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessNRoutersandGateways/WNR3500L.aspx).
Open Source firmware, Gigabit wired, 802.11n WLAN and USB port to plug in external storage.
Just had a quick search, they're ~AU$173 - mmmmm, tempting.
With my current USB port (on the router), I reach about 300 KB/s. ;D
(Via WLAN.)-Tuxman
Naturally, you'll still only get 300kBps transferring by WLAN - it'd be quicker to transfer by flash drive ;)
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Maybe later this year. Right now it would be enough money to spend to make the HDD work fast. :D
edit: Hmm, I thought WLAN is not that slow these days? (802.11g+)
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G+, (if you can get a reliable connection), should be about the same as 100Mb LAN.
But I've found that even with an apparently rock solid 54Mbps link, (at a distance of 700mm), I rarely get more than about 500kBps.
AFAIAC, WLAN speeds are in the same category as statistics - 80% BS :D
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Phew. Now what causes this heavy decreasement?
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(Via WLAN.)-Tuxman
Don't expect to get super high performance enhancements from a new NAS device if you're going to access it over WLAN...
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(Via WLAN.)-Tuxman
Don't expect to get super high performance enhancements from a new NAS device if you're going to access it over WLAN...
-f0dder
Agreed - I tried two different NAS enclosures in late 2008 over my WLAN and they were ULTRA disappointing. f0dder's a master of understatement here because the speeds I was seeing over G Wireless were slower than USB 1.1, which means that of the 150GB of data that I wanted to write to the drives, only about 500MB had written after about three hours. Of course, I might be exaggerating a bit here - I didn't keep notes - but take it from me, it was slow. Slower than molasses running uphill in January.
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I don't expect super-high performance, but one Mbit/s would be fine... now technical issues are not mine. :(
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Just as a matter of interest, (and to better understand what you're trying to achieve), what's the WLAN based devices used for?
ie. Do you want to stream data from the USB HDD to a media player, use it for data backup for your computers, both, etc, etc.
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Sharing data in my WLAN. :D
(Well, actually it was.)
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If you have a few WiFi based devices/computers it would probably be better to upgrade the router, (the Netgear WNR3500L I mention above or similar), that way you'll get an all-round higher throughput, assuming of course that you upgrade the WiFi devices to 802.11n also, plus by plugging in the USB HDD, an easy NAS solution.
The difference in price between the Addonics NAS Adapter V2 and the Netgear WNR3500L is ~EU$70, (EU$41 vs EU$110 ex. any shipping and ripoff). Then your limiting factor will be the 802.11b/g in the rest of the WLAN.
If you only have one WiFi device then perhaps a pair of HomePlug (http://www.homeplug.org) units, (at least the 85Mbps versions), might be suitable to increase throughput between it and the router, (assuming suitable electrical house wiring of course), the price of them has been progressively dropping and the 85Mbps units will be cheaper than the HomePlug AV 200Mbps versions.
Even if the routers USB port is v1.1 you should be able to get at least 1MBps throughput via the HomePlug units.
Of course, for the cost of these adapters, (and a bit of exercise), you could also buy a fair amount of CAT5 cable and get some real speed :D
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Sounds like a few hundred € are needed anyway. Thank you for the details. Currently the HDD is, basically, used with one CAT5 cable and carried up- and downstairs if needed.
;D
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If you only have one WiFi device then perhaps a pair of HomePlug (http://www.homeplug.org) units, (at least the 85Mbps versions), might be suitable to increase throughput between it and the router, (assuming suitable electrical house wiring of course), the price of them has been progressively dropping and the 85Mbps units will be cheaper than the HomePlug AV 200Mbps versions.-4wd
Being a big fan of PowerLine networking (Company that invented it is here in my home town), I'd like to second this suggestion. I've had great luck with it in the past even with the old origional 10-14Mb units. These devices are idiot simple to setup & reliable as a hammer.
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I've had great luck with it in the past even with the old origional 10-14Mb units.-Stoic Joker
What kind of throughput did you get?
I'm thinking of replacing the only WiFi linked computer with a pair of HomePlug units.
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I've had great luck with it in the past even with the old original 10-14Mb units.-Stoic Joker
What kind of throughput did you get?
I'm thinking of replacing the only WiFi linked computer with a pair of HomePlug units.
-4wd
While I don't have specific numbers (it's been awhile), assuming that the building has at least half way descent wiring... You get what you pay for. Our office building was originally divided up into smaller (Boutique) shops (we have the whole complex now), so the wiring has been shall we say butchered (this was the test environment). I used 2 of the original 14Mb units to add 3 workstations in the service department. The service techs routinely accessed the server for pdf manuals (5-30MB in size) drivers, and our (rather bandwidth intensive) order tracking software (which is not exactly written well IMO) without any hiccups.
I finally got the time to pull the cable for the service department so everybody is now hard wired at 100Mb but the speed improvement (vs. usage requirement) was negligible. The owners of the company now use the units at their home as a replacement for a badly unstable WiFi solution (stucco kills WiFi every time) and they're thrilled with it.
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I finally got the time to pull the cable for the service department so everybody is now hard wired at 100Mb-Stoic Joker
only 100Mb? If you took the effort required to run cabling, I hope you ran at least cat-5e :)
How fast does HomePlug go these days? I thought they were up to around 200Mb/s, at least by specification... I wonder how fast you can go, though - probably depends not only on the quality of your power cable wiring, but also how clean voltage is supplied by your power company?
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I finally got the time to pull the cable for the service department so everybody is now hard wired at 100Mb-Stoic Joker
only 100Mb? If you took the effort required to run cabling, I hope you ran at least cat-5e :)-f0dder
Of course, but the machines came with what the machines came with, and while the backbone is Gigabit the rest of the network doesn't need to be.
How fast does HomePlug go these days? I thought they were up to around 200Mb/s, at least by specification... I wonder how fast you can go, though - probably depends not only on the quality of your power cable wiring, but also how clean voltage is supplied by your power company?
Building wiring condition/quality can be a factor, but it isn't too critical ... If building power is stable enough to keep the lights from flickering constantly and a the computers running reliably ... It's probably good enough.
Clean power isn't really that much of an issue (beyond the above obvious), as the devices communicate by (basically) creating their own "localized distortions" in the power flow.
About 8 years ago, Intellon the local company that invented powerline networking had an opening for a Network Administrator that I applied for. During the 2nd 4 hour interview I got a complete tour of the facility and was quite impressed with both the people and the pride they put into their product. During the interview, my would be boss mentioned that the bigest (speed) issue they had environmentally was bad grounding...which could easily be fixed with a screw driver. (I did not get the job, but...) I had the opportunity to verify this live when I first deployed the PowerLine connection test at the office. Precisely as I was told (during the interview) reseating/retightening the grounds in the panel cured the speed/stability encountered during the initial setup after which it remained bullet proof for the duration of the test.