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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: kyrathaba on October 25, 2018, 07:44 PM

Title: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on October 25, 2018, 07:44 PM
I'm working on a digital collectible/trading-card game and found the following resource while researching. It's a site that facilitates developing your own card game:

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https://dulst.com/
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on October 25, 2018, 07:54 PM
I'm working on a digital collectible/trading-card game

(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/SPECOOL.GIF)(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/SPECOOL.GIF)(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/1Small/SPECOOL.GIF)

Tell us more!
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on October 25, 2018, 08:34 PM
Well, just to whet your appetite (and I WILL be rambling here), there is strategy involved, and the digital "cards" are both collectible and tradeable. The game has a detailed backstory that players learn about in minute tidbits through each card's flavor text, and in broader strokes by using those cards in game play and getting caught up in the storyline. There will be two play modes: (a) single player versus the game; this will be a longterm campaign that will be experienced as each succeeding expansion of the game is released; (b) turn-based multi-player versus game which will be transacted by each player submitting their turn's actions to their group's coordinator (the player on a team who collects each team mate's moves, adds her own, and then has the game engine process them).

The theme: I really must be intentionally vague here, in order not to give away too much too soon. The setting lies in a future time in which mankind has been and continues to be at risk of extinction caused by outside influences. Technology has advanced to a point, and the incursion of alien infuence has impinged to such as degree, that tropes from science-fiction, fantasy and other subgenres will be noted, but in such as mixture as makes sense against the unfolding backstory.

Each new "chapter" of the game will come in the form of an expansion that will either be a large binary download or may optionally take the form of separately titled executables.

The cards: the digital, collectible cards — beyond the starting cards each player gets — are unlocked through either victories (in the multiplayer turn-based mode) or achieving story goals (in the single-player mode). They aren't purchasable. But they are tradeable among players who have ever been grouped together into a team (in any phase of the multi-player mode).

Grinders who want to go it alone WILL be able to unlock new cards as storyline achievements. Multi-group players will each export their turn-based actions and send an encrypted data blob to their group's coordinator (whether that be via email attachment, file sharing service, download, etc; I don't envision this as a server-based game, but who knows). For the last few months I've been writing and rewriting segments of the backstory. It is designed so that the overall "big picture" takes lengthy game play to resolve. Even then, different players may have different interpretations. The game will, however, reward those whose interpretations align with the game designer's intent.

If the game were to become hugely popular, I've not ruled out some small fee ($0.99-2.99) per expansion, but players will NEVER be able to purchase/sell cards. Rarer cards will, naturally, require lengthier game play to obtain. Not only are the cards categorizable by their relative rarity. They also will have a GUID attached. Your "Big Bad Card" will not have the same digital fingerprint as mine of the same name. Not only that, but at milestones in the story mode, or after particularly boss-level victories in multi-player, there will be the chance of obtaining one or more unique cards (only one such card in existence, regardless of how many copies of the game are being played).

I would love to have beautiful artwork for the cards, but can't afford it. Maybe some zealous individual with talent will become interested in co-development. A trend in digital CCG's is lack of artwork; in several recent digital CCGs a simple array of icons is used. But I think artwork evoking the backstory would be super cool. Another thing about the cards. Unlike in, say, Magic: The Gathering, where Fireball is the same, no matter whose deck it's in, in this game some cards will be upgradeable via either prolonged use and familiarity or by discovering some factoid via the game that unlocks the next level of the card's potential.

This won't be a video game. No Unity 3D. I will develop it with the tool I'm most comfortable using: Visual Studio, using C#.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: KodeZwerg on October 26, 2018, 03:17 AM
I am very interested in such a project and wonder how you handle cards and their statistics.
(I hope for some kind of randomize generator like used in many games for item attributes, can raise addiction factor if used well)
I cannot await to betatest such thing. (my own projects in that direction lacked of art, buried during develop^^)
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: Deozaan on October 26, 2018, 10:00 AM
Neat. Even though from the sounds of your description, booster packs may not apply, here's a somewhat related thread from December 2017:

Designing Collectible Card Games: How do rarity and booster packs work? (https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=44749.0)
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on October 26, 2018, 12:55 PM
I think in Magic: The Gathering a booster pack of 15 cards ($4 and change) contains 1 rare, 4 uncommon, and 10 common cards.

One thing about MTG I want to avoid is the ability to throw cash at the game to get Uber cards. Either I want to entirely avoid that, or else when you create a particular player ID, you lock in one of two options: that account is paid or unpaid. If paid, the game would only allow you to group with other payers. Likewise for non-payors.

Unlike in MTG, in my game, which I’m titleing Earth:Apotheosis, many of the common cards are necessary elements to progressing through the game. The uncommon and rares make the commons enhanced or more versatile. But they don’t replace them.

Based upon in-game choices, a given player or team may switch allegiances at various points. And this could pit player vs player in a card duel.

Losing a duel isn’t game over, but results in loss of a card.

Lots of details to iron out. But I want a sort of The X File-ish sense of foreboding and incremental discovery.

What I hope to capture in the game is an experience that players who care more about story than cards won’t feel disenfranchised while simultaneously giving card accumulators reinforcement as well.

And maybe present tense in-game player accomplishment might even impact content of future expansions, somewhat like is implemented in some MMORGs and MUDs.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on October 31, 2018, 05:19 PM
@KodeZwerg: you (or anyone else) interested in helping out? I'm going to start releasing some promo cards...
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on October 31, 2018, 05:55 PM
I'd be happy to proof read instructions, or offer feedback on design ideas.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: KodeZwerg on October 31, 2018, 07:01 PM
@KodeZwerg: you (or anyone else) interested in helping out? I'm going to start releasing some promo cards...
Help out with what?
Willing to test if I know what to do :]
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on October 31, 2018, 10:01 PM
Thanks mouser and KodeZ. Do either of you have any history of playing Magic: The Gathering? I do and it would provide a nice reference of game mechanics I like vs dislike...
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on October 31, 2018, 10:59 PM
I haven't played Magic the Gathering and I'm not much of a collectible card game player, but I am familiar with the mechanics, and play a lot of other board and card games, and living card games, and games similar in spirit to magic.
(though I must be honest that Magic is not the kind of game I typically play or enjoy, so I won't be generally useful to you in terms of judging how fun the game design is).
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: KodeZwerg on November 01, 2018, 02:28 AM
I know MTG Planeswalker stuff. I also know it is Pay2Win :-]
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 01, 2018, 08:07 AM
I hate the Pay2Win aspect of MTG. Tell me about living card games, mouser.

I want the game to be playable in two different ways: (1) single-player (or multi-player team) versus game AI, and (2) duels between players using cards they've collected.
One thing I'd like is for the game's deep backstory to come out incrementally as bits and pieces of knowledge players gain via card flavor text, card mechanics, and scenes/missions played in-game.
The game is set centuries in Earth's future, after alien incursion has left its mark upon human civilization, reducing population globally and in many areas setting tech back centuries. This will allow
a wide range of tropes. The point of the game for story lovers who enjoy playing against the AI will be eventually grogging the entire backstory, while the dueling and collectible card component will appeal to those who like that kind of thing.

I'm envisioning the game UI sharing elements of text adventures and card games.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 01, 2018, 08:10 AM
I already have a utility coded up that can embed text in PNG images of cards, storing it in the least significant bits. If I use it, the text would be encrypted within the cards, and decrypted in-memory by the game.
I have software to obfuscate the assemblies that will comprise the game. I was thinking last night of producing some cards and just seeing what ideas they evoke from you guys re: story/mechanics/card combinations/etc.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 01, 2018, 12:53 PM
A Living Card Game® (LCG®) offers an innovative fixed distribution method that breaks away from the traditional Collectible Card Game model. While LCGs still offer the same dynamic, expanding, and constantly evolving game play that makes CCGs so much fun, they do away with the deterrent of the blind-buy purchase model that has burned out so many players.

Found that quote here (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/more/living-card-games/). I take it the "fixed distribution" method ensures that each player has the same chance of getting each unique card that makes up the game?

And the following is definitely inline with my opinion about card collecting:

LCGs® have no rare or promo cards that need to be chased. This ensures that games are determined by a player’s deck building skills and play strategies, rather than who spent the most money in pursuit of hard-to-find ultra rare cards. The fixed format means that every player has equal access to every card needed to build his or her deck.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on November 02, 2018, 03:45 AM
Found that quote here. I take it the "fixed distribution" method ensures that each player has the same chance of getting each unique card that makes up the game?

It's simpler than that -- the LCG games so far have just involved fixed decks of cards that are released frequently.  So they are still milking the customers and making tons of money, but the packs of cards they release on a regular schedule always have the exact same known contents.

For something really knew, check out Keyforge (https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/7/17658396/keyforge-card-game-fantasy-flight-magic-the-gathering-hearthstone), which uses a very new system of custom printed cards, where each deck is unique.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: KodeZwerg on November 02, 2018, 03:51 AM
i second this & like your first screenshot. Somehow i miss statistic for card but you make me more n more hungry to "want" it ;)

i dont know how you do it at all, my suggestion for text on cards would be, use direct write to canvas.
that way you can easily do multilanguage.
(examples for your coding language will for sure be found if searching for "textscroll" + your language.)

playing with canvas can also be used to add effects on cards.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 02, 2018, 10:58 AM
Read the KeyForge article. Interesting.

From my reading yesterday about LCGs, I like the idea of players not having to "chase" rares just to building winning decks.
And I like the idea of discrete sets/expansions being released periodically, and everyone having equal access - no pay-to-win.
I need to do some deep thinking about game mechanics. I want them to support deep strategy, with many ways to win duels.
At the same time, they need to reflect the backstory.

Hmm, things to ponder...
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: wraith808 on November 02, 2018, 01:10 PM
From my experience, it was only in the first iterations of most serious CCGs where rares gave you an insurmountable advantage.  There are still rares, but they are rare for different reasons rather than mechanical reasons.  Money grabs tend to do them as pay2wins, but others not as much.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 02, 2018, 05:44 PM
That has largely been my experience too, wraith.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 03, 2018, 02:29 PM
Added some new card images to OP.

Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 03, 2018, 06:53 PM
Temp (sample) card back:

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Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on November 03, 2018, 08:34 PM
very nice  :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: Deozaan on November 03, 2018, 09:17 PM
Added some new card images to OP.

That card has "abduction" spelled incorrectly, twice. :D
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 04, 2018, 04:07 PM
That card has "abduction" spelled incorrectly, twice.

Do you mean because it's capitalized? :)
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: Deozaan on November 04, 2018, 05:31 PM
That card has "abduction" spelled incorrectly, twice.

Do you mean because it's capitalized? :)

No. It was spelled something like "abudction" in two places. :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: wraith808 on November 04, 2018, 06:09 PM
That card has "abduction" spelled incorrectly, twice.

Do you mean because it's capitalized? :)

No. It was spelled something like "abudction" in two places. :Thmbsup:

I noticed it also :)
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: IainB on November 04, 2018, 10:39 PM
Oh, you never know. I mean, for all we know, "abudction" might be a word in Esperanto or Klingon (say) that meant "to have gone back in time", or something, and it might have been spelled correctly, though whether it would be the correct word to use in that sentence would be quite another matter.    :o
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: wraith808 on November 05, 2018, 06:27 AM
Oh, you never know. I mean, for all we know, "abudction" might be a word in Esperanto or Klingon (say) that meant "to have gone back in time", or something, and it might have been spelled correctly, though whether it would be the correct word to use in that sentence would be quite another matter.    :o
That might hold water if it were not spelled correctly two other times in the same context.  :-\
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 05, 2018, 06:31 AM
Thanks for catching that, guys. Does this look better?

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Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: wraith808 on November 05, 2018, 12:28 PM
definitely :)  :Thmbsup:
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 07, 2018, 02:05 PM
BTW, I recently completed my first half-marathon:

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Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on November 07, 2018, 07:19 PM
Wow.. Congratulations.  :Thmbsup:

I run 10ks fairly regularly, but I am nowhere near being able to run a half marathon 
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 08, 2018, 06:25 AM
I was wearing Nike running shoes but my feet were hurting abominably by mile 4. I've ordered a pair of UnderArmour HOVR sneakers.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: wraith808 on November 08, 2018, 08:52 AM
Well, I'm impressed with both of you.  I'm done after 1 mile. 
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: KodeZwerg on November 08, 2018, 02:01 PM
Well, I'm impressed with both of you.  I'm done after 1 mile.
With car I am able to reach that goal too  :D

You earned +1 respect @kyrathaba
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: mouser on November 08, 2018, 07:48 PM
With car I am able to reach that goal too 
:P
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 08, 2018, 08:16 PM
I did 8 miles this afternoon:

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Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 21, 2018, 12:53 PM
I decided to write the computer RPG version before working on the card game:

Here's a couple of screenshots and an excerpt from the tutorial introduction:

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Welcome to Earth Apotheosis, a game that allows you to roleplay to your preferred depth. If you just want to own and run an inn, you can end your advancement there. On the other hand, you can embroil your character in plots, relationships — even a form of politics.

In the Earth of the far future, societies have collapsed, science has languished, magic has emerged, and the world has begun to renew itself from whatever cataclysm has left such sketchy evidence of the past.

Moreover, not even the most learned scholars of the current day can accurately estimate the current date in relation to the Gregorian calendar of the "ancient" world.

Life is hard due to disease, monsters, marauders, violent weather, and scarcity. It's made even tougher by suspicion, stigma, and violently contested resources.

The general technology level is medieval. There is a quad-level caste system (Rolshîm) observed by those who choose the marginally greater safety of community living, while those with some command of eldritch forces or ancient artifacts sometimes choose to risk a life of exploration and the seeking of answers about the past.
Title: Re: Working on a DCTCG and found this resource
Post by: kyrathaba on November 21, 2018, 01:01 PM
I run 10ks fairly regularly, but I am nowhere near being able to run a half marathon

I wasn't prepared for the half-marathon, and walked the last 4-5 miles  :P  In the weeks since then, I've been gradually lengthening my runs. Longest to date is 10.14mi. I will train throughout the winter, because my running buddy and I want to be in the full 26.2 mile marathon in Nashville next April. I won't even consider enrolling unless I can work up to 26 mile practice runs.