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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 09:29 AM

Title: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 09:29 AM

The crazy just keeps on at Apple.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/02/apples-in-app-subscriptions-if-we-bring-in-subscribers-we-deserve-a-cut.ars

"Our philosophy is simple—when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing," CEO Steve Jobs said in a statement.
____________________
"And if you so much as eat an apple or say the word apple or think of apple, send us 30%!

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 09:30 AM

All this time I thought it was the app that brought in the customers, not the OS. How foolish of me.  ;)

If Amazon thought like Apple, they'd raid your bank account. "You know that investment book you bought from us and made $3000 on? Send us $900 immediately or we're deleting your account and banning you!"

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 15, 2011, 03:32 PM

"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."

Good grief...

I suppose it might help to have people fill in a long form so that they'd rather type on a computer than their phone...

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 04:41 PM

@Renegade
Exactly! So where does the 30% figure come from! Why not 50% or 70% or 95%? Would any Apple user protest if it were doubled tomorrow to 60%? Apple clarified later today: The rules are very straightforward: Publishers can continue to sell digital subscriptions on their own websites and give free access to existing subscribers. Apple will not take a cut from these transactions. Publishers who offer out-of-app subscriptions, though, also have to offer in-app subscriptions and the price has to be the same or lower than for subscriptions processed outside of the app. Apple will take a 30% cut from these in-app transactions. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html

And what if 30% never existed in history in some businesses? Apparently this means Amazon is going to have to pull its link to the Kindle Store that it currently provides in its iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad apps. Yea, they're sure making it easier and simpler all right. Question for Steve Jobs: How much is enough?

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 15, 2011, 05:10 PM

30% is a pretty standard affiliate commission. Some go higher. At CJ you can give out up to 75%.

But Apple brings ZERO value to the table as a retailer. They don't *earn* that 30%.  It's up to YOU to go out and get your customers. With 200,000 software titles in the Apple App Store (not "on" the app store because I speak English properly... but that's another rant), you are nothing but the long tail. And they want 30% to throw you in the long tail? Huh? YOU are still responsible to go out and spend the money, time, and effort to get the customers. And THEN they want a 30% cut from YOUR work AGAIN?

If Apple did jack to actually earn that 30%, it would be different. But it's not.

The whole thing boils down to YOU putting in all the work and they collect for doing nothing.

Now, if you have preferential placement in the store, like the first page or the top few in a category, well, I can see paying for that. But to be #4,832 of 12,356? That's just bullshit. And that's the bullshit piled on top of all their other bullshit, but as above, that... is another rant...

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 05:31 PM

You make good points, Renegade. Apple claims "they built a new backend system that any of these apps can take advantage of. And when they do, it will give them within one-click access to some 100-mn+ credit cards." Bull. That's already in place! And just as there's no free trial for their apps, Apple also doesn't allow a free trial subscription. You're all in or forget it. That makes it hard on companies with more expensive subscriptions (or apps).

I really shouldn't make a snit over this. Companies should just charge Apple users a 30% tax on everything they buy. In fact, double it to 60% and make 30% off Apple's back. Problem fixed. If Apple users complain, give them Steve Jobs' iPhone number.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 15, 2011, 05:35 PM

I really shouldn't make a snit over this. Companies should just charge Apple users a 30% tax on everything they buy. In fact, double it to 60% and make 30% off Apple's back. Problem fixed. If Apple users complain, give them Steve Jobs' iPhone number.

-zridling (February 15, 2011, 05:31 PM)

I agree with this, except they can't. From your own post previously (emphasis added):

Publishers who offer out-of-app subscriptions, though, also have to offer in-app subscriptions and the price has to be the same or lower than for subscriptions processed outside of the app. Apple will take a 30% cut from these in-app transactions.

So in my opinion it's time for publishers to withdraw their apps from Apple and make it perfectly clear to their customers exactly why they had to, until Apple wises up. And then maybe stay out anyway if Apple changes their mind.

I can hope, can't I? :D

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 15, 2011, 05:41 PM

I just looked at the source article, and you forgot to quote the really bad part (emphasis added):

However, Apple does require that if a publisher chooses to sell a digital subscription separately outside of the app, that same subscription offer must be made available, at the same price or less, to customers who wish to subscribe from within the app. In addition, publishers may no longer provide links in their apps (to a web site, for example) which allow the customer to purchase content or subscriptions outside of the app.

-http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 15, 2011, 05:50 PM

And all this is a large part of why I truly hate Apple (most days).

They're vampires.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 15, 2011, 11:01 PM

And Rhapsody is the first to say NO. The model can't work and keep content providers in business:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20032119-1.html

Our philosophy is simple too--an Apple-imposed arrangement that requires us to pay 30 percent of our revenue to Apple, in addition to content fees that we pay to the music labels, publishers and artists, is economically untenable.

______________
@Deozaan: The reason I missed it is because I didn't read it clearly. That's worse than I thought.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 15, 2011, 11:15 PM

And Rhapsody is the first to say NO. The model can't work and keep content providers in business:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20032119-1.html

Our philosophy is simple too--an Apple-imposed arrangement that requires us to pay 30 percent of our revenue to Apple, in addition to content fees that we pay to the music labels, publishers and artists, is economically untenable.

-zridling (February 15, 2011, 11:01 PM)

And you gotta love the comments below that article where people are actually defending Apple on this...  ::)

Good job for Rhapsody! I hope Amazon and all the others follow suit.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: f0dder on February 16, 2011, 02:22 AM

And when they do, it will give them within one-click access to some 100-mn+ credit cards."

-zridling (February 15, 2011, 05:31 PM)

Pft, that doesn't cost more than $100 max from your favorite Russian or Ukranian vendors :)

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 16, 2011, 04:39 AM

YAY for Rhapsody~! :D

I hope others follow suit.

Apple needs to earn that 30%.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 17, 2011, 06:00 AM

Google's One Pass takes a swipe at Apple's 30% by taking only 10%. Still too much! "The cut is too damn high!"
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/simple-way-for-publishers-to-manage.html

More detail at WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703373404576148142926860706.html

Steve Jobs said his company is protecting user privacy and simply seeking the same compensation for periodicals as for other content sold through iTunes. He said the revenue split is justified because Apple is bringing additional subscribers to publishers.

Jobs talks like he owns his customers, and almost monomaniacal about mega-profit.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 17, 2011, 06:09 AM

Google takes a swipe at Apple's 30%:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/simple-way-for-publishers-to-manage.html

The post implies it's free, but doesn't "Google Checkout" charge 10%? If so, that's still about 8% too much for me.

-zridling (February 17, 2011, 06:00 AM)

I was just about to post the same topic, but you beat me to it! :D

10% is MUCH more manageable than 30%.

Google One Pass is currently available for publishers in Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the U.K. and the U.S.

That's a bit of a drag. But I'm sure they'll roll out more with time.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 17, 2011, 06:11 AM

Google says the 10% only covers their cost, but they never tell you exactly how they come to that tidy figure. To me, that's yet another "Trust us, we're a corporation" statement. All together now:

The cut is (still) too damn high!   :P

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 17, 2011, 06:34 AM

BS. There's NO way in Hell that their costs are 10% for a transaction. That's a flat out LIE.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: 40hz on February 17, 2011, 07:30 AM

Such are the realities of dealing with a closed software ecosystem.

And such is the high tariff some feel we should all be made to pay for what amounts to little more than convenience when shopping.

Fortunately, the solution is very simple.

If you don't want to live with: arbitrary policy and decision-making,  predatory business tactics, 'rules' based on (and changed at) whim, high nonnegotiable pricing, blatantly unfair and constantly rewritten licenses -  then stop doing business with companies that make no bones about the fact that's exactly what they're going to subject you to.
 
Your single, most effective response to a bad deal is to walk away. :) 8)

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 08:58 AM

Such are the realities of dealing with a closed software ecosystem.

And such is the high tariff some feel we should all be made to pay for what amounts to little more than convenience when shopping.

Fortunately, the solution is very simple.

If you don't want to live with: arbitrary policy and decision-making,  predatory business tactics, 'rules' based on (and changed at) whim, high nonnegotiable pricing, blatantly unfair and constantly rewritten licenses -  then stop doing business with companies that make no bones about the fact that's exactly what they're going to subject you to.
 
Your single, most effective response to a bad deal is to walk away. :) 8)

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 07:30 AM)

I truly think Apple is close to crossing some kind of line with their closed business model.  Apple has grown so much over the last two years, it's crazy.  Between the laptops, tablets, phones, they have grown their userbase by tons.  They just can't keep it this closed for too much longer.  i don't know, maybe they can.  But we're seeing...companies are not going to give 30% to Apple for subscriptions.  that sounds so insane.  I mean, if they end up all doing it, I'd be shocked.  That's too big of a cut.  So I'm predicting a lot of important companies will just resist it and their product won't be available on apple devices.  So then the userbase will complain, and because it's growing so much, those complaints will be hard to ignore, I imagine.  So Apple will have to lower their cut.  but what if they don't?  That's going to make more people either A) not want to use Apple devices or B) jailbreak their devices to do what they want.  Either way, it starts fragmenting Apples closed system.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: 40hz on February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

Or is until your pacemaker becomes dependent on your owning an iPad.  :P

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 09:15 AM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

Or is until your pacemaker becomes dependent on your owning an iPad.  :P

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

I would totally jailbreak my pacemaker and have it do some cool shit.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: 40hz on February 17, 2011, 09:40 AM

^ Exactly!  It worked for Ironman.

(Way to go Aram! ;D :Thmbsup:)

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: vlastimil on February 17, 2011, 11:46 AM

30% is surely a lot and the conditions are pretty limiting. I have never developed anything for any Apple product, but I can imagine the disillusions some of the developers must feel.

On the other hand, the Apple store probably was a relatively easy source of money for many developers. Everything has its end.

Who knows, maybe Apple will lover their cut to 15% in a couple of days/weeks/months and everyone would happily pay that knowing that things could be worse. Maybe we do not see the whole picture yet.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 17, 2011, 11:57 AM

Or is until your pacemaker becomes dependent on your owning an iPad.  :P

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

I would totally jailbreak my pacemaker and have it do some cool shit.

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 09:15 AM)

Then Apple would simply disable your iHeart and let you die.

Apple breaks iBooks for jailbreakers (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032255-37.html).

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Stoic Joker on February 17, 2011, 12:02 PM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

Damn Straight!

Guess how many Apple products I own... 0
Guess how many Apple products are own by my family members... 0

Guess how many I recommend to clients... 0

etc., etc., etc... It's just gotta start somewhere ... So who's with me?

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Stoic Joker on February 17, 2011, 12:04 PM

Or is until your pacemaker becomes dependent on your owning an iPad.  :P

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

I would totally jailbreak my pacemaker and have it do some cool shit.

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 09:15 AM)

Then Apple would simply disable your iHeart and let you die.

-Deozaan (February 17, 2011, 11:57 AM)

I think you mean iCroak 

 :D

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 17, 2011, 12:29 PM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

Damn Straight!

Guess how many Apple products I own... 0
Guess how many Apple products are own by my family members... 0

Guess how many I recommend to clients... 0

etc., etc., etc... It's just gotta start somewhere ... So who's with me?

-Stoic Joker (February 17, 2011, 12:02 PM)

Despite my best efforts, I know at least 3 of my family members have iPods. 2 have iPads. 1 has an iPhone 3G and an iPhone 4G.

After I got my Android phone I praised it so much that I got 3 of my other family members to go for Android as well when they were due for an upgrade.

My mom went to buy an Android Tablet (the Samsung Galaxy Tab, IIRC) this past Christmas but gave in to peer pressure when someone questioned why she would want to pay the same price as an iPad but have a smaller device/screen. She returned the Android Tablet and has an iPad now. She loves it, so that's good. But she also has and uses a Kindle, so she may soon be losing the ability to read her Kindle books on the iPad.

Anyway, I keep telling everyone I know to avoid Apple and giving them good reasons why, but these are often people who aren't tech savvy and believe the propaganda that Apple means stupid-easy for the oblivious, so they buy Apple products anyway.

I have a very tech savvy brother who also owns a few Apple products. His wife got an iPhone a couple years back and then when she upgraded to the iPhone 4 he started using the iPhone 3 (without phone service) as basically an iPod Touch for apps and things. Then he got really interested in the possibilities of the technology and bought an iPad and I know he wants to develop for iOS and heard he recently bought a Mac solely for that purpose.

I hope these latest developments with Apple making a huge cash grab don't come back to bite him in the rear. Oddly, he seems to be okay with the idea of letting Apple take 30% as "advertising costs" if people find his apps in the Apple Store rather than from his website. That one has me perplexed. :huh: Because I think he's planning a subscription-based service, which, as I understand it, means that Apple will essentially take 30% each month (payment), rather than just the one-time "finders fee" type thing. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the implications of Apple's policy. Maybe he's in denial, still trying to figure out a way around it. Or maybe he's really Okay with the idea of letting Apple take 30% because of the huge market. I dunno. :-\

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 12:37 PM

I'm telling you guys...a jailbroken ipad is a totally different animal than a normal ipad.  Compare the jailbroken ipad to the android devices, and the ipad <may> be preferable.  But for people like us, I think this year will give us some options that might suit us better than the ipad or ipad2.  I'm hoping someone will make some business-grade tablets that runs Windows.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: 40hz on February 17, 2011, 12:53 PM

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Apple's technologies - even if their most significant were either 'borrowed' or acquired rather than developed in-house.

I have a big problem with Apple's business, legal, and marketing practices. And I have an even bigger problem with their resident demigod, Mr. Jobs, who is the most significant single factor that's keeping Apple from becoming something truly great.

 :-\

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: wraith808 on February 17, 2011, 01:08 PM

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Apple's technologies - even if their most significant were either 'borrowed' or acquired rather than developed in-house.

I have a big problem with Apple's business, legal, and marketing practices. And I have an even bigger problem with their resident demigod, Mr. Jobs, who is the most significant single factor that's keeping Apple from becoming something truly great.

 :-\

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 12:53 PM)

This.  Unfortunately, but this.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 17, 2011, 02:43 PM

I'm telling you guys...a jailbroken ipad is a totally different animal than a normal ipad.

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 12:37 PM)

Maybe you missed my link earlier: Apple breaks iBooks for jailbreakers (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032255-37.html).

Which pretty much leads us right back to what 40hz just said:

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Apple's technologies. . .

I have a big problem with Apple's business, legal, and marketing practices. And I have an even bigger problem with their resident demigod, Mr. Jobs, who is the most significant single factor that's keeping Apple from becoming something truly great.

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 12:53 PM)

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 02:54 PM

I'm telling you guys...a jailbroken ipad is a totally different animal than a normal ipad.

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 12:37 PM)

Maybe you missed my link earlier: Apple breaks iBooks for jailbreakers (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032255-37.html).

Which pretty much leads us right back to what 40hz just said:

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Apple's technologies. . .

I have a big problem with Apple's business, legal, and marketing practices. And I have an even bigger problem with their resident demigod, Mr. Jobs, who is the most significant single factor that's keeping Apple from becoming something truly great.

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 12:53 PM)

-Deozaan (February 17, 2011, 02:43 PM)

Man, if you are good with computers, why even bother with ebook formats?  The only formats I use are actual, physical books, or pdf's.  And for comics, cbr and cbz files, sometimes converted from a pdf.  The benefit is several-fold: first, no proprietary formats and no proprietary readers.  Compatibility across all platforms and devices.  Multiple choices for reader software: you can pick whichever pdf app best fits your particular needs, they are all very different.  Manipulation of content, so you can extract pages, crop pages, copy/paste into other documents...so you can use the content in the future for whatever projects you may be doing.  i don't pay for ebooks.  I only pay for real books. well, actually that's not entirely true.  I'll pay for a pdf ebook if it's open.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Deozaan on February 17, 2011, 03:18 PM

It's not just about eBooks (or iBooks). It's a trend by Apple. If Apple are willing to break iBooks, what will they break next to punish you for using your hardware how you want (jailbreaking)?

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 17, 2011, 04:19 PM

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

Much easier said than done.

When so many people go out and buy Apple products, and with such a large economy, it's hard to ignore (as a developer).

As a developer, you need to write for the devices/platforms that people are using. If that means Apple, well, then it's Apple.

What good would it do to write for Palm OS? Or the PET, or CBM, or Windows 98? Nobody uses them anymore.

While it may seem simple, it's not really THAT simple.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 17, 2011, 08:41 PM

[40hz]: If you don't want to live with: arbitrary policy and decision-making,  predatory business tactics, 'rules' based on (and changed at) whim, high nonnegotiable pricing, blatantly unfair and constantly rewritten licenses -  then stop doing business with companies that make no bones about the fact that's exactly what they're going to subject you to. Your single, most effective response to a bad deal is to walk away.

Meanwhile, Apple is taking this opportunity to shift the long-term future of mobile computing in its favor, without concern for short-term disruption. Sounds like another company I know -- cough, Google -- who recently dumped H.264 in order to avoid another generation of disruptive patent lawsuits and licensing disputes (enter WebM/VP8).

[Renegade]: As a developer, you need to write for the devices/platforms that people are using. If that means Apple, well, then it's Apple.

Loic Le Meur on the "new nightmare of developers and brands" that all these platform ecosystems are creating, and I can only imagine how devs might be tearing their eyes out of their sockets: http://www.loiclemeur.com/english/2011/02/the-new-nightmare-of-developers-and-brands.html

You need to be on all the above platforms stores, of course. But wait, there is more. You need to submit and manage your app to the mobile carrier app stores, they all have one. That's only a start, wait until the manufacturers themselves, the Samsung, Dell, HP and Sony have theirs, HP has one with the Palm acquisition... Even Amazon has an store for applications. Bonus startup idea of the day: create a service to help register and manage my app in all those stores in all languages, I can be your first customer.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 09:00 PM

Man, Z, you are really bringing up things that are riling me up.  I'm trying to work dammit!

You're much more in touch with this stuff than I am, but it seems as though there's going to be a lot of fragmentation just generally speaking in the future.  Looks like everyone wants what Apple and the phone companies have, which is ecosystems that are hard to get out of.  As an end user, I'm doing everything I can to basically prepare for the worst.  I have all my data locally with me, and I'm always working towards a more robust backup solution.  I'm probably going to invest in as many hard drives as necessary.  i want everything that I could possibly think of and need with me at all times.  Then, I make my own ecosystem for myself.

One day, it's going to be impossible to find anything easily through the cloud.  And all the services you want will be cloud subscription services.  The locally installed software developer seems to be struggling now.  We've heard not only from the developers here, but from other people I've spoken to that they just can't survive writing good software unless they work for a larger company.  That's a shame because those little guys often make way better stuff than the big boys.  I don't want to rely on Oracle software for my needs, it's not that great.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: wraith808 on February 17, 2011, 09:11 PM

Man, if you are good with computers, why even bother with ebook formats?  

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 02:54 PM)

It's because of content and convenience.  I want to read on my device, and I want to read mainstream novels.  So it's not that simple.

@40Hz - If only it were that simple... :(

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 07:35 AM)

It's as simple as you let it be.  :)

-40hz (February 17, 2011, 09:08 AM)

Much easier said than done.

When so many people go out and buy Apple products, and with such a large economy, it's hard to ignore (as a developer).

As a developer, you need to write for the devices/platforms that people are using. If that means Apple, well, then it's Apple.

What good would it do to write for Palm OS? Or the PET, or CBM, or Windows 98? Nobody uses them anymore.

While it may seem simple, it's not really THAT simple.

-Renegade (February 17, 2011, 04:19 PM)

This.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 09:15 PM

wraith, why can't you read a pdf on your device?  Instead of a proprietary format, that is?

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: wraith808 on February 17, 2011, 09:20 PM

wraith, why can't you read a pdf on your device?  Instead of a proprietary format, that is?

-superboyac (February 17, 2011, 09:15 PM)

I can.  But *all* books aren't available in PDFs is my point.  Can you get Heroes Die (http://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Die-Matthew-Woodring-Stover/dp/0345421450/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297999048&sr=8-1) in PDF?  How about Changes (http://www.amazon.com/Changes-Novel-Dresden-Jim-Butcher/dp/0451463471/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297999081&sr=1-1) or A Game of Thrones (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553381687/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297999111&sr=1-1)?

*That's* my point.  It's the content, not the format.  And if the content that you want isn't in PDF, do you just forego it?  I suppose if you want to make a point... but I just want to read.  I've bought Heroes Die and A Game of Thrones 4 times because of this- once in hardcopy, and 3 different digital versions.  And it means that much to me to be able to read them when I want.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 10:09 PM

well, er...not legally i guess.  i did just find heroes die...
Why don't you buy the hardcover, then download the illegal pdf?  But I guess my real question is, if, hypothetically, all books you wanted were available as pdf's AND whatever reader you were using had many choices of pdf software as well as proprietary reader software, which software would you prefer to use?  The ereader one or one of the general pdf readers?  I would never even consider an ereader's software because there are so many great pdf readers out there.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: wraith808 on February 17, 2011, 10:16 PM

I know there are illegal copies out there.  But I do like the e-reader software better than any pdf reader I've seen.  I have illegal copies of all three of those books- but the legal copy is much more legible and is easier to read.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: superboyac on February 17, 2011, 11:32 PM

Yeah...I should give these readers another try!

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: TheQwerty on February 18, 2011, 05:52 AM

Any thoughts on what recourse affected companies have since Apple has pulled a bait and switch once again?

I'm really dreaming that instead of bowing to Apple's demands we see a mass exodus of developers, including the big (Netflix, Amazon) and popular (Hulu, LastPass) ones.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 18, 2011, 07:45 AM

Good question, Qwerty, publishers responded with a list of their own demands to Apple today:
http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-spooked-publishers-state-their-demands-to-tablet-platforms/
1. Censorship of content is non-negotiable
2. Transparency in the framework
3. Direct relationship with customers
4. Fair business partnership

Steven Musil has more on CNET:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20033196-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

____________________________
[superboyac]: One day... all the services you want will be cloud subscription services.

This is a valid fear of mine, that we're returning to the days of AOL and a walled internet. I'll say it until my tongue bleeds: I don't want to be beholden to a corporation. "The Corporation" is the great evil of our time, doing anything they want, taking anything they want, shutting off anything they want, and suing whatever and whomever they don't like into oblivion. And as long as it can make money, instead of fighting the sanctioned IP theft of China, they join them. But you rip one song, and you owe them $250,000.

I used to like Microsoft, but then I saw what they were doing with their formats and it was costing me a lot of time when I could no longer read documents I'd composed 10-12 years ago. I never liked Apple, but Apple has now told developers which programming languages can and cannot be used to create iPhone apps. Facebook is another evil entity. It might help with movements like those in the Middle East, but Facebook owns your data and doesn't really give a damn about your privacy. And in case you haven't been to court lately, Facebook is used as much as cellphone data these days (against you).  I like Google right now, but Eric Schmidt was a little Himmler in my opinion. I'm sure the day will come when they'll burn me, too. As mouser has pointed out, if they can't compete with the little guy, they buy him out, or they claim patent/copyright infringement and just sue them to death.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: zridling on February 18, 2011, 07:50 AM

I like Google right now, but....

-zridling (February 18, 2011, 07:45 AM)

I should counter that one of the things I do like about Google is that -- like Amazon -- you can buy server space cheaply. 20Gb for $5/year is a great help to what I do. These companies provide valuable services, but why must their bargains be Faustian?

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: Renegade on February 19, 2011, 11:14 AM

Well, it looks like anti-trust time...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO

the Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission are locked in negotiations over which of the watchdogs will begin an antitrust inquiry into Apple's new policy of requiring software developers who devise applications for devices such as the iPhone and iPad to use only Apple's programming tools.

There's more to it than just that though.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: f0dder on February 19, 2011, 11:24 AM

There's more to it than just that though.

-Renegade (February 19, 2011, 11:14 AM)

This might hit Microsoft and others as well - but nice, I hope something major comes out of this rather than a crappy settlement.

Title: Re: Apple: if we get you subscribers, we deserve a cut
Post by: 40hz on February 19, 2011, 12:43 PM

I hope something major comes out of this rather than a crappy settlement.

-f0dder (February 19, 2011, 11:24 AM)

What will likely come out of it is a crappy settlement. One which Apple will be allowed to make without being required to admit to any wrongdoing. Assuming it even gets that far.

Most of these cases end exactly that way if (and that's a very big if) they make it past the initial inquiry stage.

Expect political posturing, industry name calling, heavy-duty fanboy evangelism, the usual sarcastic and condescending comments from Mr. Jobs, some Congressional hand-wringing, and...well..very little else.

 :-\