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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: nontroppo on January 12, 2009, 04:28 PM

Title: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: nontroppo on January 12, 2009, 04:28 PM
How, but seriously, how on a 1000 earths, does Microsoft come out with the most staggeringly awful, cheesy & cringe-worthy publicity. This must seriously be a clever parody of MS:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E

“Microsoft, huh? So it’s pretty easy to use?”
"And what a happy home we'll have, with every word in rhymeeeeeeeeee......"

Lisa, the annoying little girl, runs Vista on her Macbook Pro (covered in girly stickers so you don't think it's a mac). I normally hate YouTube for the moronic depressingly idiotic comments, but these comments are spot on:

"Be right back...stabbing my eardrums."

"Music is dead."

Yes, it really is real (maybe even fun, if it wasn't for the searing pain in my brain from watching that wretch-inducing advert):

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/

I'm off to get sink into copious glasses of absinthe; surely it's the only way to erase this pain from my mind...
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: urlwolf on January 13, 2009, 12:15 AM
It's almost as if Microsoft found a way to reverse-engineering 'cool', then proceeded to make the program that would minimize it.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Ehtyar on January 13, 2009, 12:22 AM
Who the hell is Microsoft's agency? Surely it's done in-house, no agency could weather that kind of international embarrassment. Vile!!

Ehtyar.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: mouser on January 13, 2009, 12:40 AM
Poor microsoft can't get a break.. Video may be cheesy but the idea is nice.

I don't know the research behind it, and I know this isn't the first such program to do this kind of thing, but it does look like they put a lot of effort into making it easy to use, and i can certainly see this being extremely useful for very low budget amateur song tinkerers.  It seems like it would be especially useful to people making novelty/satire songs for videos on the web.  And it's free.  Very cool.

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Songsmith screenshots and free download:
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/screenshots.html
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: vitalyb on January 13, 2009, 02:01 AM
Hey, cheesy or not, it got the tool more publicity than most anything.
Anyone actually tried it?
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: mediaguycouk on January 13, 2009, 02:02 AM
It it just me... or is that a macbook pro in the song?
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Josh on January 13, 2009, 02:10 AM
I will quote one of the truly great inspirations of our time in regards to this "ad":


Well guys, I'm going to go kill myself. If this is what's cool now, I no longer have any connection to this world. Good-bye friends
-Cartman

Click spoiler for rest of skit
Spoiler
next morning:

I thought you were going to kill yourself
-Kyle

I tried. Sat in the garage with my mom's car turned on.
-Cartman

And you didn't die?
-Stan

Friggin hybrids man, they just don't do the trick anymore
-Cartman

Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Ehtyar on January 13, 2009, 02:50 AM
People seem to be mistaking criticism of the advert for criticism of the product...

Ehtyar.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: nontroppo on January 13, 2009, 10:36 AM
Poor microsoft can't get a break.. Video may be cheesy but the idea is nice.
-mouser (January 13, 2009, 12:40 AM)

Yes, the idea is nice, though the advert does highlight how much painful sonic drivel could be produced with it. :P Don't want to sound elitist though, everyone should have access to flexible tools.

Hah, just found a more cowbell edition of the advert jingle:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kVUIid2hT74

Songsmith is a real-time audio analyzer. http://www.morecowbell.dj uses an echonest analyze algorithm (similar tech) to add synced cowbell ala the infamous Saturday Night Live sketch. Double audio-analysis lovefest!  ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Deozaan on January 13, 2009, 10:44 AM
Quick, somebody get me some crackers to go along with the cheese! :D

As for the product itself... well I'm a novice songwriter, and for me, I usually just suddenly get a tune in my head and if I can record it before I forget then maybe I'll expand it out into a song. But a number of my songs have been inspired by other tunes I've heard. I'll hear a couple of notes and the rest of the tune starts coming my way. So this application may be useful for someone like me. :)
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Deozaan on January 13, 2009, 10:48 AM
I just went to download it and found this:

The free trial will work for six hours of actual application use. That’s not six hours from the instant you download it, it’s six hours of you really using Songsmith. If you close Songsmith, minimize Songsmith, or start working in another application, the clock stops. So this is plenty of time to make lots of songs (making songs is quick and easy, we promise!).
-http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/f294560a-c545-4d1c-be53-6e7fac0429f8/default.aspx

and this:

If you've had a great time making music for six hours and want to keep on rocking, you can purchase Songsmith for $29.95 (in the U.S.) or 29 euros (in the EU) at the online Microsoft store. Songsmith is currently only available for purchase in the U.S. and EU, but the free trial version can be downloaded anywhere.
-http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/download.html
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: mouser on January 13, 2009, 10:52 AM
Deo, thanks for pointing that out -- i thought it was free.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: justice on January 13, 2009, 01:13 PM
just to late for NANY microsoft!
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Curt on January 13, 2009, 01:49 PM
I don't understand why nontroppo wrote what he did. The add is fine,
- considered its an American thing...
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 13, 2009, 01:53 PM
I have to say I agree with Curt - I think the ad is truly, cringemakingly, awful in the extreme - but it is still better than some of the stuff put out by MS.

Remember this is a senior exec: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Curt on January 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
edited

$30

The servers must be heavily burdened, I expect, because right now the download speed is below 20 kbps!

Edit2:
98½ MB; time to complete: 1:27:56 = average download speed: 19.12 KB/s!!!
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Curt on January 13, 2009, 06:29 PM
If anyone, other than me, are going to trial this program, it may pay off to first study this Help&HowTo page: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/songsmith/help.html
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: f0dder on January 13, 2009, 07:42 PM
OK, so the ad is extremely corny and cheesy - that could've been fine, though. But because it doesn't at all show how the stuff works, and the singing is overlaid rather than showing how it sounds/works inside the ad - well, the ad sucks.

The idea is cute though, and if it does something meaningful from your singing, it could be somewhat useful. But I doubt it's going to be used for anything but toying around and making horrible youtube parodies of stuff :P
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: CWuestefeld on January 13, 2009, 08:32 PM
Remember "Band in a Box"? This seems similar to that, except this appears to fill in a harmony based on the melody of your voice.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: zridling on January 13, 2009, 09:20 PM
I feel like killing myself now. Those people have no dignity. Here's how I feel right now after watching that:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Let's see. You sing at Songsmith and it creates horrible muzak to accompany you. I don't care what you say. This is a jump-the-shark moment for Microsoft. I thought the Seinfeld ads were bad, then the 'I'm a PC' ads. But this, this is horrific. The father in the ad is actually one of the developers, Dan Morris. The guy in the coffee shop is another developer, but I don't know his name.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Carol Haynes on January 14, 2009, 03:33 AM
Remember "Band in a Box"? This seems similar to that, except this appears to fill in a harmony based on the melody of your voice.
-CWuestefeld (January 13, 2009, 08:32 PM)

Band in the Box is really quite cool software (and is still being actively developed). It is more like an intelligent loop based based composition system (like Acid) but you don't need to spend a fortune on loops. I bought a copy a while back (and since then there have been 2 new versions with huige numbers of improvements and additions) but only really scratched the surface of what it can do.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: CWuestefeld on January 14, 2009, 05:35 AM
Band in the Box is really quite cool software (and is still being actively developed). It is more like an intelligent loop based based composition system....
but only really scratched the surface of what it can do.
-Carol Haynes (January 14, 2009, 03:33 AM)
Yes, I'm fond of it myself.

If you're into this kind of thing and have been around for awhile, you might be familiar with another related piece of software. It was published some 20 years ago for the Atari ST platform. RealTime was revolutionary (http://tamw.atari-users.net/realtime.htm) for its UI on the ST, but it also allowed an easy-to-use method of building music algorithmically in a user-friendly way. I'm proud to say that it was written by my then-roommate Eric, and I had a small hand in writing the copy protection for the product.

I really wish that someone would port RealTime to Windows, or build something similar.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: TheQwerty on January 14, 2009, 06:22 AM
I found the "commercial" to be comical and got the feeling that was their intention. 

I think what most people (at least in other parts of the web) don't realize is that this is coming out of Microsoft Research.  It seems clear to me that Songsmith isn't Microsoft's goal, but instead a demo of some underlying technology.  It's almost like someone in R&D made the mistake of showing the tech to someone in marketing who then convinced them to create and sell a more polished version, and the end result is Songsmith.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: CWuestefeld on January 14, 2009, 09:55 AM
I called that:
Remember "Band in a Box"? This seems similar to that, except this appears to fill in a harmony based on the melody of your voice.
-CWuestefeld (January 13, 2009, 08:32 PM)

From the web site of PG Software (http://pgmusic.com/), the folks who make Band in a Box:
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Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Paul Keith on January 15, 2009, 02:21 AM
Haha, oh come on. It's not bad. Have you guys heard any of the Disney Channel's songs? They're way worse!  :P

I say give Miley Cyrus SongSmith and I might just tolerate Hannah Montana.
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Curt on January 15, 2009, 05:37 AM
- well, then you too will get the best of both worlds...  :P
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Lashiec on January 15, 2009, 08:45 AM
The father in the ad is actually one of the developers, Dan Morris. The guy in the coffee shop is another developer, but I don't know his name.
-zridling (January 13, 2009, 09:20 PM)

That shows the ad is far from being an 'ad', it's probably another mock ad like the others done by Microsoft over the years, there was one a while ago about Vista SP1 with some of the Windows developers mimicking Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, it wasn't as funny though. Clearly, Microsoft employees don't know the meaning of the word 'embarrasment'

In any case, I don't see Microsoft Songsmith replacing musicians anytime soon. Replacing pop stars might be another matter...
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Xenonym on January 29, 2009, 06:11 AM
Isn't this sort of thing pretty prevalent already? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music_automation)
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: 40hz on January 29, 2009, 08:48 AM
Isn't this sort of thing pretty prevalent already? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music_automation)
-Xenonym (January 29, 2009, 06:11 AM)

It dates back before the advent of the personal computer. Algorithmic composition and creativity was one of the earliest topics for research in the mainframe computer era.

Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_music

http://www.thinkartificial.org/artificial-creativity/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_music

And this is the link for much of what's going on in research today:

http://www.flexatone.net/algoNet/index.html

This site provides a comprehensive research resource for computer aided algorithmic music composition, including over one-thousand research listings, over one hundred system listings, cross referenced links to research, links to software downloads and documentation, and web-based tools for searching and filtering the complete lexicon.

Browse systems
Browse resources
Search algorithmic.net
Learn more about algorithmic.net

Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: 40hz on January 29, 2009, 08:58 AM
Remember "Band in a Box"? This seems similar to that, except this appears to fill in a harmony based on the melody of your voice.
-CWuestefeld (January 13, 2009, 08:32 PM)

Band-in-a-Box goes way beyond what MS is doing. BIAB is a marvelously useful app for music composition education. It also has sufficient depth that it frequently finds a role in professional settings.

But BIAB's best feature (and biggest selling point) is that it's fun to play with. I think Microsoft realized the importance of that when they created Songsmith.

After looking at the advert video, I wouldn't be at all surprised that MS is licensing some of the technology used in Band-in-a-Box.

---

P.S. I don't know who wrote that ad, but whoever did really needs to get out of marketing. I have seldom sat through something quite so painful as that. One minute into it and I was actually cringing with embarrassment for the actors. Hope they got paid well. :down:
Title: Re: Microsoft Songsmith
Post by: Crush on January 29, 2009, 09:12 AM
Algorithmic compositions? I remember that I often listened to Algomusic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyUnXjVgx44) on the Amiga (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x4vj9EWmvM&feature=related).
The additional automatic song name generation was sometimes very funny.