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Main Area and Open Discussion => Living Room => Topic started by: zridling on May 26, 2010, 08:52 AM
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[ You are not allowed to view attachments ] (http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-worth-more-than-microsoft-2010-5)
What a difference a decade makes (http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-worth-more-than-microsoft-2010-5)... well sort of, if you believe Apple's funny-money accounting methods. Microsoft stockholders are calling for Steve Ballmer to be replaced as the U.S. Justice Department investigates Apple. Anyone else sick of hearing about ipad, itouch, ipod till ipuke?
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Why am I finding it hard to believe that Apple has absolutely no debt?
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Why am I finding it hard to believe that Apple has absolutely no debt?
-app103
I don't. :-))
why would Apple need to borrow money from anybody? its cultlike customers seem willing to reach for their plastic everytime Apple releases another one of its expensive toys.
with friends like these, who needs creditors?
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Apple's product placement is second to none and if you believe your eyes on TV and in films Apple computers are used in such diverse places as:
Counter Terrorism (24 - but they also seem to use Dell a lot)
MRI hospital scanners (House)
MI6 (UK series Spooks)
Love 'em or hate 'em you have to admit Apple have got the word out to Joe public.
I now get requests for new systems which start "I have been wondering if it is worth buying an Apple computer to replace my Windows machine. Everyone tells me that Apple's never go wrong ..."
I then ask them what they want to do with their new computer and most people want to use the Internet, email and Microsoft Office.
Marketing is winning the war despite common sense!
Having said that customers usually settle for Windows when they see the price, the catalogue of Macs I have been asked to fix, know bugs in MacOS and my unvarnished comparison of the actual hardware found in machines with like-4-like price tags.
I'm not a Windows zealot or a Mac hater (and I can see that in some specific fields it might be good to move to Mac) but I get really fed up with having this conversation with customers who are being blinded by Mac religious zealots and a lot of flannel.
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Why am I finding it hard to believe that Apple has absolutely no debt?
-app103
I don't. :-))
why would Apple need to borrow money from anybody? its cultlike customers seem willing to reach for their plastic everytime Apple releases another one of its expensive toys.
with friends like these, who needs creditors?
-Gwen7
One doesn't necessarily have to borrow money to have debt. Debt is a normal part of running a business, especially one that deals with physical goods.
You order parts from another company, either paying on delivery or paying partially up front and the rest on delivery. You are now in debt until the bill is paid, which even if you pay it off within 30 days of delivery, you were still in debt till you paid it off.
You hire workers. You pay them once a week. Until you pay them, you are in debt.
Unless Steve Jobs has a magical elephant hiding in his garage that craps out all his merchandise, without any need to be fed, and all his store employees are robots also crapped out by this magical elephant, Apple has debt that wasn't figured into those totals.
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a magical elephant hiding in his garage that craps out all his merchandise
-app103
Tusk, tusk!
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I now get requests for new systems which start "I have been wondering if it is worth buying an Apple computer to replace my Windows machine. Everyone tells me that Apple's never go wrong ..."
Marketing is winning the war despite common sense!
Having said that customers usually settle for Windows when they see the price, the catalogue of Macs I have been asked to fix, know bugs in MacOS and my unvarnished comparison of the actual hardware found in machines with like-4-like price tags.
I'm not a Windows zealot or a Mac hater (and I can see that in some specific fields it might be good to move to Mac) but I get really fed up with having this conversation with customers who are being blinded by Mac religious zealots and a lot of flannel.
-Carol Haynes
I see news people on cable TV constantly taking an opportunity to mention their "ipad" or latest itunes list, or heck, any Apple news -- especially on business channels. They're not reporting financial or company info, just tossing it out there that "they" own a Mac gadget and because of that, you're supposed to think they're cool. Usually these people start in their 40s; I suppose that's the only crowd who can really afford them.
However, after the novelty wears off, most of the Mac-heads I know are only impressed as long as they stay in the Apple ecosystem and do not dare compare their gadgets to anything else.
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Usually these people start in their 40s
-zridling
So the iPhone is the new red convertible?
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My parents had to replace their G5 iMac recently (the capacitors on the motherboard were all melting down - evidently a known problem with iMacs of it vintage - 2005) and I insisted that they look at both Windows 7 and Apple replacements. They paid $1300 for a 22' iMac with a Dual Core Intel processor, integrated graphics, 4GB DDR3 RAM and a 500GB harddrive. It's stunning. However, for about $300 less, they could have gotten an HP with Quad Core processor, 16GB RAM, 1GB dedicated graphcs and a 1 TB Harddrive. The obsequious Apple salesman kept going on and on about the superior "innovations" on the iMac (like streaming video!) and went on about the superior security, yada, yada, yada. I was with my mum for that embarrassing spiel. She and dad went and checked out Windows 7 machines on their own and went and bought the iMac without me. The same salesman convinced them that the iMac was competitive in terms of hardware at that price point. Ridiculous.
I do have to say this: the way that the Apple was presented - in a very uncluttered, very bright environment with lots of light-coloured, real-wood and stainless steel furnitutre - half sold me on the thing. Around here, most Windows based machines are available in box stores - crowded, dark, austere, and with horrible music blasting at you. Further, the machines don't tend to have any software on them for you to play with. At the Apple store everything was loaded for demonstration, so the salesman was showing my mum streaming video from websites that he'd bookmarked, showing off TimeMachine, and demonstrating OpenOffice and iWorks. I think that made a big difference as well...
I take comfort in knowing that: I have access to Snow Leopard to play around with and that my parents are using a machine that they are comfortable with and that they know. But it still rankles... I keep thinking about the GB's of unused Windows shareware that I have and don't use and that I could have loaded up for them. Perversely, I bought my mum an Acer netbook with XP on it for Christmas and she loves it. I wonder what would have happened if I'd sprung for a Windows 7 Starter based machine instead... ?
PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?
-Darwin
Don't do that! Keep that Vista away from them.
Giftmas comes every year. You could start buying the parts now, then assemble it in early December, put Win7 on it, configure it, load it up with all the best Windows software goodies that would make them wet their Mac loving pants, install a wallpaper changer and load that with the best looking wallpapers you can find, stick Circle Dock on it, and give it to them as a gift.*
If not this year, then maybe next year. :D
*Then watch them fight over who gets to use the Windows machine and who gets stuck using the Mac.
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Good points, app ;D
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?-Darwin
If some schlockmeister Crapple sales tool did that to my parents? He'd be dragged out behind the boutique for a quick lesson in instant karma. I've got slightly less than half the patience of a coked-out badger when it comes to that brand of nonsense.
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They paid $1300 for a 22' iMac
-Darwin
Salesman probably told them a tall story!
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?
-Darwin
They're happy, leave them happy.
If they ever become unhappy that'll be the time to unveil another wonder.
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One doesn't necessarily have to borrow money to have debt. Debt is a normal part of running a business, especially one that deals with physical goods.
-app103
I think they're referring to long-term and traditional short-term debts as opposed to the temporary liabilities incurred through net payment terms and other operational cash 'float' which results from normal business operations.
Payable accounts aren't generally classified as debt. Most accounting conventions place them under the general operating liabilities heading. Or at least they did back when I got my degree (please don't laugh :-[) in accounting. But I freely admit that was quite a while ago, and things have gotten much more...creative...since I last slogged through the GAAP.
Morningstar shows Apple's long and short term debt as $0.
Acid test ratio is 1.39; Turnover: FA=13.5, INV=48.5, and AR=12.6.
All in all, they have pretty solid numbers for a company their industry sector. Combine that with a hot selling pair of products and it's no wonder the stockbrokers love Apple.
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?-Darwin
If some schlockmeister Crapple sales tool did that to my parents? He'd be dragged out behind the boutique for a quick lesson in instant karma. I've got slightly less than half the patience of a coked-out badger when it comes to that brand of nonsense.
-Stoic Joker
Which nonsense - the VM/Dual booting Windows idea? Just checking...
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They paid $1300 for a 22' iMac
-Darwin
Salesman probably told them a tall story!
-cranioscopical
Doh! 22" iMac...
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They're happy, leave them happy.
If they ever become unhappy that'll be the time to unveil another wonder.
-cranioscopical
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Chris has just revealed the second secret teaching of the Kung-Fu Tech Support Masters!!!! :greenclp:
(Thanks for giving the game away! :P)
;D
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?
-Darwin
They're happy, leave them happy.
If they ever become unhappy that'll be the time to unveil another wonder.
-cranioscopical
Agreed. Putting Vista on it would be more for me than it would be for them (I have a copy of Vista Ultimate that I'm not using). I would like to be able to load up some of my shareware that I'm not using so that they can use it (Photo editing, mostly), but it seems like too much hassle for what I suspect would be little return.
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PS I did consider loading Vista Ultimate on their iMac but can't see them using a dual-boot setup and doubt they'd enjoy running Windows as a VM. Thoughts?-Darwin
If some schlockmeister Crapple sales tool did that to my parents? He'd be dragged out behind the boutique for a quick lesson in instant karma. I've got slightly less than half the patience of a coked-out badger when it comes to that brand of nonsense.
-Stoic Joker
Which nonsense - the VM/Dual booting Windows idea? Just checking...-Darwin
Wow! I royally fcsked that one up didn't I? :-[
I meant to quote (and was responding to) this part: The obsequious Apple salesman kept going on and on about the superior "innovations" on the iMac (like streaming video!) and went on about the superior security, yada, yada, yada. I was with my mum for that embarrassing spiel. She and dad went and checked out Windows 7 machines on their own and went and bought the iMac without me. The same salesman convinced them that the iMac was competitive in terms of hardware at that price point. Ridiculous.
They paid $1300 for a 22' iMac
-Darwin
Salesman probably told them a tall story!-cranioscopical
No it's part of the Super Secret Apple MacDonalds merger - They're calling it the iWhopper.
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the second secret teaching of the Kung-Fu Tech Support Masters-40hz
And the first is? Always take a non-refundable deposit? ;)
They're calling it the iWhopper.-Stoic Joker
;D iWatering, iWept.
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the second secret teaching of the Kung-Fu Tech Support Masters-40hz
And the first is? Always take a non-refundable deposit? ;)
They're calling it the iWhopper.-Stoic Joker
;D iWatering, iWept.
-cranioscopical
(https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/esmileys/gen3/5Large/TFR1E0.gif)
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-Stoic Joker
Wow! I royally fcsked that one up didn't I? :-[
I meant to quote (and was responding to) this part: The obsequious Apple salesman kept going on and on about the superior "innovations" on the iMac (like streaming video!) and went on about the superior security, yada, yada, yada. I was with my mum for that embarrassing spiel. She and dad went and checked out Windows 7 machines on their own and went and bought the iMac without me. The same salesman convinced them that the iMac was competitive in terms of hardware at that price point. Ridiculous.
No worries. I did want to throttle the guy (who was the head tech guy at the store as well). You should have seen his face when my mum asked him about Windows 7. Apparently, he has a Windows 7 machine at home that he has set up as a Media Centre. He didn't say much but his face and body language spoke volumes. He just kind of shook his head and said something about not getting on with it. WTF? Big time fan-boy.
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Okay, Apple is worth more than Microsoft (thanks to gadgets, not software). So what. Shouldn't change a thing for Microsoft except -- in my opinion -- to embrace more open standards and open formats to counter Apple's closed ecosystem built around that Sunday School called "App Store."
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Market Value != Market Share
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Payable accounts aren't generally classified as debt. Most accounting conventions place them under the general operating liabilities heading. Or at least they did back when I got my degree (please don't laugh :-[) in accounting. But I freely admit that was quite a while ago, and things have gotten much more...creative...since I last slogged through the GAAP.
-40hz
Try declaring bankruptcy and they suddenly end up on the list of your creditors to which you are in debt.
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I find it interesting that I see Apple computers all over the place on TV and hear from all these satisfied Apple computer owners on the internet, but I can't seem to find one in real life and believe me, I've tried. Nobody I know and nobody they know own an Apple computer.
I make a special point to go observe the Apple PC area every time I venture into Best Buy and the observations are always the same. Plenty of people wander up and start playing with the Macbooks, iPads, etc., but the end results are consistent: After 30 seconds of playing around with the device they remark to the person they are with that it is too expensive for what it does, shrug, and wander 10 feet over to where the more practically priced PC notebooks and such are.
The reason Apple is so profitable is because of their MP3 players and their cell phone. Without those Apple would probably yet again be perilously close to bankruptcy and waiting for Microsoft to bail them out again with another check.
Even Apple realizes their computers are not the focus of their company anymore as they changed the name of the company from Apple Computer to just Apple.
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The reason Apple is so profitable is because of their MP3 players and their cell phone. Without those Apple would probably yet again be perilously close to bankruptcy and waiting for Microsoft to bail them out again with another check.-Innuendo
Which is why I consider Apple a gadget company, not a computer company. At least since the advent of the iPod. Their computer division is less than 10% of their annual revenue.
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In this day and age though, the gap is very small between gadget and computer company.
Let's not forget that it was only a decade ago that Apple supercharged the idea of a personal computer which in the past was a concept much closer to a gadget rather than a computer.
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Okay, Apple is worth more than Microsoft (thanks to gadgets, not software). So what. Shouldn't change a thing for Microsoft except -- in my opinion -- to embrace more open standards and open formats to counter Apple's closed ecosystem built around that Sunday School called "App Store."
-zridling
It's a game of cat and mouse IMO. Long term-wise, Microsoft's DirectX keeps Linux from having a much equal ground in game support.
The only huge difference is that Microsoft was the dominant leader then.
In a way, Apple's gadgets allow their software to have exposure like Itunes and they are far nearer to Microsoft than they were in any other period precisely because of the way software and hardware is intertwined nowadays.
It's really the price that has kept them back but it's uphill for MS too. You can only milk Windows 7 until you have to match up with the demands and then once the OS playing area gets evened out, it's much more of a reality for Apple to pull the Firefox of gadgets to catch up to Microsoft. Sure, Firefox is open source so the comparison is off except Firefox became this way after Netscape found a trick to breathe life to a dead horse.
With the way the App Store is working out for them, the only reason Apple is giving Google a chance is because they are open but nothing changes stubborn business like being out-competed in a near monopoly-level setting.
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One thing stands out in my mind and that is this statement I have heard over and over again which rings true:
"Microsoft is a Software company which dabbles in small electronics. Apple is a hardware company which dabbles in software"
Microsoft does not produce large scale computers or devices. Microsoft really makes its money in software and putting that software on various devices. Yes, they have some hardware, but that, like Apple's PC division, is not where they make their big bucks.
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The biggest money maker for MS has always, at least in the last 15-20 years, been software (Office)
My opinion on Apple remains the same....power of hype and marketing and little more.
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:up: :up: rgdot
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One thing stands out in my mind and that is this statement I have heard over and over again which rings true:
"Microsoft is a software company which dabbles in small electronics. Apple is a hardware small electronics company which dabbles in software computers."
-Josh
Fixed that for you, Josh! ;D
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Close enough ;-)
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Apple is not the Microsoft of Mobile:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/1651578/apple-microsoft-mobile