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Author Topic: Opera - new alpha version brings untold pleasures...or something like that.  (Read 17349 times)
Josh
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2007, 07:31:18 PM »

That comment wasn't directed directly at torrent support. I merely listed torrent support as an example of how they add a feature and have yet to expand it. My comment was more aimed towards roboform. You are limited to using the wand or you don't have much of a choice otherwise. Am I wrong in this arena? Can you in fact use roboform or any other form filler/password manager with opera? Yes, keepass works, but that is more something sending keystrokes to the browser, not a true form filler since it cant gather field names to determine what values to fill in each field.

Anyways, when it comes to irc, again, this isn't what my comment was directed at. I don't use email or IRC from opera because they are, in my opinion, substandard, more difficult to use, and don't belong in a browser suite (Mozilla realized this, and as such the Mozilla suite is basically being eliminated).

Your pointing out the spell checkers reinforces my point that a more suitable API or plug-in based system is required so that you don't have to jump through hoops to get features like this to work. I would love to use my auto-complete utility to fill in where opera fails to add a feature (Auto-complete is another highly requested feature, and no, notes isn't an acceptable alternative since I don't want to type every possible auto-complete or web address into a note field). This again, is an example of where a user should be able to grow the browser as their own without having to resort to only what the developers add to the browser.
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Laughing Man
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 08:21:08 PM »

One thing I don't like though is how they default their program to opening the protocal with their client (until you change it in the browser). Clicking on torrents would cue a prompt asking me if I wanted to download it with Opera (their prompt). It took a while before I figured out how to set it in the browser to automatically make it open in utorrent or Ktorrent.

And cool, I'm running the Alpha besides the current released version. Interesting seeing the differences.
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Dirhael
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 08:36:30 PM »

That comment wasn't directed directly at torrent support. I merely listed torrent support as an example of how they add a feature and have yet to expand it. My comment was more aimed towards roboform. You are limited to using the wand or you don't have much of a choice otherwise. Am I wrong in this arena? Can you in fact use roboform or any other form filler/password manager with opera? Yes, keepass works, but that is more something sending keystrokes to the browser, not a true form filler since it cant gather field names to determine what values to fill in each field.

Anyways, when it comes to irc, again, this isn't what my comment was directed at. I don't use email or IRC from opera because they are, in my opinion, substandard, more difficult to use, and don't belong in a browser suite (Mozilla realized this, and as such the Mozilla suite is basically being eliminated).

Your pointing out the spell checkers reinforces my point that a more suitable API or plug-in based system is required so that you don't have to jump through hoops to get features like this to work. I would love to use my auto-complete utility to fill in where opera fails to add a feature (Auto-complete is another highly requested feature, and no, notes isn't an acceptable alternative since I don't want to type every possible auto-complete or web address into a note field). This again, is an example of where a user should be able to grow the browser as their own without having to resort to only what the developers add to the browser.

Opera supports Aspell for spell checking out of the box though so I wouldn't call it jumping through anything to get that done though Wink

Also, both the email and IRC client are both tripple A products in my eyes, for my use of course. Anyway, I see nothing wrong in wanting support for something like extensions of plugins. Still, I would best like to see this discussion taking place in some other topic as nothing good can come out of it.
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tinyvillager
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2007, 09:11:10 AM »


 Anyone know if this build supports the new Silverlight that went final today,i'm lazy.That and holding off til beta.
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nontroppo
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« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2007, 02:35:37 PM »

Yes, silverlight is supported - the problem is many silverlight demos use browser sniffing so it looks like it doesn't work...

jgpaiva: the inline find is a known bug that is targetted for fixing, so it will once again work out of the box.

For an alpha it is very solid - make sure you don't install over an old profile (it won't by default) and you are good to go.

For those interested in performance, I made a summary, mostly aimed at comparison with 9.x focussed on Web 2ish peformance but threw other browsers into the mix:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/ <- URL Fixed ;-)

There is a lot to digest in the changelogs. For developers, there is a TON of cool new technology to play with, and some stuff like using SVG just as any other image format that is long overdue.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 04:28:49 PM by nontroppo » Logged

urlwolf
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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 03:54:35 PM »

Yes, silverlight is supported - the problem is many silverlight demos use browser sniffing so it looks like it doesn't work...

jgpaiva: the inline find is a known bug that is targetted for fixing, so it will once again work out of the box.

For an alpha it is very solid - make sure you don't install over an old profile (it won't by default) and you are good to go.

For those interested in performance, I made a summary, mostly aimed at comparison with 9.x focussed on Web 2ish peformance but threw other browsers into the mix:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_test/

There is a lot to digest in the changelogs. For developers, there is a TON of cool new technology to play with, and some stuff like using SVG just as any other image format that is long overdue.

I think one more reason to support opera is that they are definitely head and shoulders the rest in one thing: innovation. I want more innovation, so I support them. This is just my philosophy, but overall I think the speed/integration of Opera wins over the flexibility of FF.

In fact FF tends to copy Opera most of the time. Plugin authors do get very creative, but managing all plugins is a bit of a hell.

Definitely, Opera + a plugin system would be crazy good.
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nontroppo
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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2007, 04:31:17 PM »

oops, my URL was borked: http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/
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nontroppo
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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2007, 05:01:23 PM »

Having just looked at the adblock plus thread - one nice thing about 9.5 is that you can use site-specific preferences to override the content filter. This means I can block ads in general, but enable them for sites I want to support.

The content blocker in 9.5 will also let you know when your URL patterns match JS and CSS files too, which is valuable feedback when blocking i.e. contextual text ads
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hpearce
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 08:46:14 AM »

Hey nontroppo .... fancy seeing you here  Wink

I miss the View Bar .... the speed is impressive.... especially for the mail retrieval now.
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justice
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 05:18:10 PM »

am almost sure the login page on this forum was loaded before i pressed the login button, but that can't be lol. it's so quick, all the rendering is instant, except for some images you'd think all pages are loaded from the harddrive.
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Darwin
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2007, 05:28:06 PM »

I guess I'll have to download it and give it a try... sigh, and I only just weaned myself off Firefox and Opera. Oh well, what is life if not enhanced by variety?
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J-Mac
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2007, 06:38:27 PM »

BTW, it is not RoboForm that is stopping integration w/Opera - it's Opera itself! Always has been. RoboForm requires more access to the code than Opera is willing to provide in its API. Plus, a good three or four years ago when I first started stumping for RoboForm support in the Opera forums, I was cursed, ridiculed, everything but peed on for even suggesting that Opera allow RoboForm to integrate with it.

What is even funnier about some posts in this thread is that back then Google was definitely the Evil Empire to all there in Opera land! A simple request by any user there was enough to bring the wrath of every Opera faithful - especially the moderators - because Google was seen as even a bigger threat to personal freedom and privacy than Microsoft! I saw posts there that were horribly vitriolic by long-standing members. Yet when a "rebellious poster" got even a little sarcastic he/she would be immediately banned.

Now they have a $50 M deal with Google? I'm just about rolling around laughing!!

Jim
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J-Mac
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2007, 06:40:10 PM »

Oh - and while I do use Opera for a quick spin now and then -- like for browsing just to look, or especially to print pages that Firefox can't touch. However without RoboForm, I will not use it on a regular basis. I cannot abide that Wand!

Jim
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Dirhael
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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2007, 07:38:01 PM »

J-Mac, it's not that I'm saying you are wrong here as I wouldn't know. However, the way I see it most of what you just posted have anything to do with the topic at hand. You say you were being mistreated at the Opera forums, well it's quite possible. On the other hand though, that's pretty much the same excuse I see from just about anyone that has ever been kicked off a forum or community in the past. It's always the other party that's at fault, and the ones getting kicked out never did anything to deserve it...
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J-Mac
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« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2007, 08:01:59 PM »

J-Mac, it's not that I'm saying you are wrong here as I wouldn't know. However, the way I see it most of what you just posted have anything to do with the topic at hand. You say you were being mistreated at the Opera forums, well it's quite possible. On the other hand though, that's pretty much the same excuse I see from just about anyone that has ever been kicked off a forum or community in the past. It's always the other party that's at fault, and the ones getting kicked out never did anything to deserve it...
Bad supposition, dude - I was never "kicked off"; I'm still a member & post regularly.  And how is my post off the topic?

I read above that the following was posted"
Quote
...without trying it because one piece of software is not supported, maybe write to roboform?

So I responded that it is most definitely Opera's exclusion, not Roboform's. Why is that off-topic?

Also, I can count at least half a dozen posts about Opera's non-support of a number of plug-ins and your "defenses" of Opera immediately following each of those. Again, exactly how and I off-topic?

I'm not here shilling any application!

Jim
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Dirhael
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« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2007, 08:15:20 PM »

I'm replying the way I did because although the part about Roboform was on topic (hence the "most of" part of my reply), the parts where you are ranting on about supposed incidents in the Opera forums are not. How exactly is that related to a topic about a new alpha release of Opera?

Also, accusing me of being a shill is not only inaccurate but also insulting. If you re-read the topic, I think that what you will find is that most of my posts in this topic are trying to help out some other users with problems they are facing when trying to configure this build.

EDIT: Also, when you say they did everything but pee on you, how am I supposed to not think you meant you had been kicked off the forums? A statement such as that kinda implied that they had done so.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 08:19:59 PM by Dirhael » Logged

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Josh
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« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2007, 08:25:23 PM »

Dirhael, I have been attacked on the opera forums, quite recently as well, for posting about roboform. Its not an uncommon thing. And you can see that I am still active and am NOT posting this because I was kicked off the forums. My username there is Buttalks, have a look smiley
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housetier
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« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2007, 08:29:59 PM »

Everytime I start the alpha version it wants to convert my mail settings (boxes?). However, I have never set up mail or chat accounts in opera - there is nothing to convert. Converting nothing seems to take forever, unless I click Pause and then Continue: opera 9.5 alpha then claims everything was converted until next time I start it.

My question thusly: how do I make it stop trying to convert?

I ask here because DC is the only forum I use and #opera has been unable to help so far.
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Dirhael
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« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2007, 08:37:37 PM »

Dirhael, I have been attacked on the opera forums, quite recently as well, for posting about roboform. Its not an uncommon thing. And you can see that I am still active and am NOT posting this because I was kicked off the forums. My username there is Buttalks, have a look smiley

I wrote in my reply to J-Mac that it was quite possible, but that I don't think it in any way has anything to do with this topic. If some members or even an moderator on this forum say something "not so nice" to you, does that mean that this is how mouser would treat you and feels about you? No? If so, in topics about the latest release of FARR it would be quite strange to bring it up, correct? The only thing it would bring into a discussion is wood for a fire.

The reason I assumed he was kicked off the forum was not because of the Roboform part of his post, but rather his statement that "they did everything but pee" on him which in my world kinda implies they didn't just point and laugh at him Wink
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Dirhael
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« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2007, 08:46:55 PM »

Everytime I start the alpha version it wants to convert my mail settings (boxes?). However, I have never set up mail or chat accounts in opera - there is nothing to convert. Converting nothing seems to take forever, unless I click Pause and then Continue: opera 9.5 alpha then claims everything was converted until next time I start it.

My question thusly: how do I make it stop trying to convert?

I ask here because DC is the only forum I use and #opera has been unable to help so far.


As far as I know (after reading the comments in the comments section of the Desktopteam's blog), the way to solve this problem is to remove the following folder:
   %AppData%\Opera\Opera\Mail

In addition, if you did the installation as an upgrade (which is a *really* bad idea for pre-release versions) you may have to clear out the following file as well:
   %AppData%\Opera\Opera\Profile\opera6.ini

There are to my understanding quite a few updates to the mail client this time around, and there are quite a few issues with it at this stage. For me it did manage to upgrade my mail acocunts, but I suddenly had about 2000 mails in my sent folder as well (it managed to copy all of my inbox there). Safe to say, I won't touch that part of it until it reaches at least beta status.
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housetier
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« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2007, 03:58:59 AM »

Thank you Dirhael!  Thmbsup

This simple trick worked, I deleted ~/.opera/mail and started kestrel. And lo and behold: it didn't even open the convert dialog!  cheesy
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dantheman
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« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2007, 07:23:08 AM »

I just did a fresh install of this alpha program and must say i am impressed!
The history search integrated into url addressbox is just fantastic!

Also, the browser doesn't feel like an alpha program at all.
No errors coming around anywhere.

Who knows! I may have to change my default browser (FF)! 
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nontroppo
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« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2007, 03:25:52 PM »

For anyone who likes search keyword shortcuts and the new history search — note you can even make a search keyword for the historysearch; lovely integration of features:

http://files.myopera.com/...on-troppo/blog/memory.mov

So, for example I can now press:

F2 > hs elephant

and I can search for *any* web page I visited that contained the word elephant. The advantage over the address bar (just typing F8 > elephant) is that opera:historysearch has more detail and focusses just on indexed pages.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 03:29:28 PM by nontroppo » Logged

dantheman
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« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2007, 07:06:23 AM »

@nontroppo,

That's a good tip!
Set up a link for it on my personal bar.

Now if i can find someway to make ImageShack work with Opera...

Anyway, Opera is ... well... almost 100% my default browser.
Do like Firefox. It's hard to choose between these two. They're both excellent browsers but i must say Opera's latest alpha is truly innovative. Something we haven't seen in the last couple of years.
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nontroppo
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« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2007, 01:53:30 PM »

What exactly is the Imageshack issue? I don't use it but worked fine when I tried:


Tested using the web site and with the bookmarklet button too: http://www.codeminders.com/imageshack/shackit/
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