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Author Topic: $7.5 to optimize XP NTFS Drive access : rip-off or not ?  (Read 15258 times)
Josh
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2007, 11:42:12 AM »

And just as f0dder guessed, its NTFS file compression.

I have just lost any and all respect for this company. Charging for a paper about NTFS compression which is freely available to anyone who wants it. And whats more, they did their testing with TEXT FILES. What a joke
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 11:43:47 AM by Josh » Logged

Strength in Knowledge
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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2007, 11:43:14 AM »

Alright, purchased, looking at it now
Outstanding. As soon as you know, let me know what I am supposed to do (besides lament the credits).

Ken
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Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
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Darwin
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2007, 12:04:17 PM »

Sent, Josh!
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mwb1100
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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2007, 12:33:37 PM »

Wouldn't NTFS have to check before each file read whether the file is compressed or not - OK not a big deal for a single MP3 file - but suppose you want to copy (or process) 5000 MP3 files - that will be a big extra hit.

It compresses/decompresses on a cluster basis.  When it reads a cluster in a compressed file, there's a bit that indicates if the cluster is compressed or not.  The overhead on uncompressed clusters is essentially zero.  And even for compressed clusters, as the disktrix teaser indicates, with today's processors the decompression is quite efficient.  It's probably a significant hit only rarely

I think that for files that are read more often than written, NTFS compression is a win (or draw) in pretty much any scenario.  For files that get written a lot, I'm not sure where the break-even point in performance would be.
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Darwin
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2007, 01:37:55 PM »

R-I-P-O-F-F. I sort of feel like I've participated in a Mythbusters or Consumer Reports "sting". Now, how do we "out" these turds without getting slapped silly by a copyright lawyer?
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2007, 01:53:39 PM »

Now, how do we "out" these turds without getting slapped silly by a copyright lawyer?

I think that's been done - there's no copyright violation by mentioning that the secret Disktrix (the publishers of Ultimate Defrag) is selling in their PDF, Windows_Secrets_1_NTFS_Intro.pdf, is:

NTFS Compression

If the actual PDF or any significant portion of it are posted, then that would be a violation, but that's not the case.
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MerleOne
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« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2007, 02:51:04 PM »

I am so sorry I started this thread !  Really,  I am ashamed ! 

Distrix claims all of their products come with a 30-days refund if one is not satisfied.  I guess that's the case here ?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 03:02:08 PM by MerleOne » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2007, 03:06:21 PM »

I am so sorry I started this thread !  Really,  I am ashamed ! 

Distrix claims all of their products come with a 30-days refund if one is not satisfied.  I guess that's the case here ?


Nice one! Josh - give it a try! Keep the credits, though... you deserve them for going through this with them.
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Josh
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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2007, 04:24:57 PM »

I will shoot them an email complaining that they are overhyping a publicly available piece of information and providing claims that are nowhere near what most users will experience.
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justice
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2007, 04:51:20 PM »

so how should we best use NTFS compression?
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Darwin
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« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2007, 04:53:19 PM »

Good luck, Josh, I hope you get a refund. Somehow I suspect they're going to be a bit "shirty" about it, but you never know - if you make your case as you have here, they'll really have to be self-delusional not to admit that you're right.
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2007, 04:54:31 PM »

Justice - your post came in as I was writing mine above - I haven't read the pdf very carefully; in fact, I plan on thoroughly researching  this hack elsewhere before I even consider using it. Might as well start another thread to solicit opinions   Wink
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2007, 04:58:07 PM »

NTFS Compression is good at the folder level or on a drive where you plan to store lots of material that isnt already compressed (e.g. mp3's, videos, pdf files, etc). If you plan to mix and match, I suggest using NTFS compression at the folder level and selectively compress each folder.
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« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2007, 05:02:46 PM »

Thanks Josh. I still have a lot to think about (actually, with my system running just fine, I'm not overly motivated to mess with anything at the moment). As I threatened to do so earlier, I've started a new thread to discuss this hack. It can be found here.
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f0dder
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2007, 05:22:08 AM »

so how should we best use NTFS compression?
Things like the PlatformSDK header files could be a candidate for compression - it's text, lots of repetitions, and basically read-only...

PS: do they make sure to empty the filesystem cache after compressing files and doing re-test?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 05:25:21 AM by f0dder » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2007, 10:20:21 AM »

Let Windows' disk cleanup decide. By default it compresses those files not modified for a period of more than 50 days, so most music files, videos, and photos will fall in there. The brother of one of my friends has this insane amount of music (he likes Progressive Rock and Metal, and those songs can last 20 minutes easily), and all of it was NTFS-compressed. I don't remember much of an impact in computer resources, and we're talking about a Pentium III @ 866 MHz machine, with 256 MB of RAM and running XP. But it also saved some space in a HDD that was not exactly empty (hmmm, I have 40 minutes songs... tongue)

I don't know if it could bring that much difference nowadays anyway. Reading that kind of files is quite fast with today hardware, and just the files that could receive the most benefit are those who are not really eligible for that (those frequently modified). Is there any objective test out there comparing this kind of performance "tricks"? I want to know if there is that difference with modern hardware, or if it just another loss of time, just like use-based defragging algorithms and placing the swap file at the beginning of the drive.

For now, try to ZIP as much files as possible. ZIP compression is almost transparent, and the savings and other benefits are worth it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 10:24:30 AM by Lashiec » Logged
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2007, 12:27:49 PM »

Depending on the format music is stored in you could potentially have compressed files that end up larger than the originals. Most formats are pretty compressed anyway - if all you end up doing is adding a header on how to decompress and already compressed file it will probably get a bit larger!

Same is even more true for video files which are already compressed within an inch of their lives!
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Curt
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« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2008, 04:26:15 PM »

- yes, Carol, you're right: A couple of years ago I NTFS-compressed some 20 GB of MP3 files, but saved merely 300 MB space, and saw no increase in speed. Also, later on I forgot to de-compress before the drive ran out of available space...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 04:30:59 PM by Curt » Logged
f0dder
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2008, 05:38:20 PM »

saved 300megabytes? Whoa, that's about 1% tongue (not bad, actually, considering that MP3 files are already compressed, and it's usually hard to gain much on already-compressed stuff).

NTFS compression should be used (if at all) on stuff like executables and text files...
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