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Author Topic: $7.5 to optimize XP NTFS Drive access : rip-off or not ?  (Read 16342 times)
MerleOne
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« on: September 02, 2007, 09:45:10 AM »

Hi,
I recently came across a recent announcement from www.disktrix.com (the publisher of a powerful HDD defragmenter, UltimateDefrag).  They propose for $7.5 to "reveal" a tip to optimize NTFS access.  You can download a "teaser" pdf at http://www.disktrix.com/Windows_Secrets_1.htm and here : http://www.disktrix.com/f..._Secrets_1_NTFS_Intro.pdf

Apart from the fact that it's discutable to ask for money for this, I strongly suspect it's related to the NTFS lastfileaccess flag, one can modify easily with the "fsutil behavior" command from the shell prompt.

Any opinion on this ?

Thanks.
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.merle1.
Darwin
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 09:50:33 AM »

Well... my opinion is "run away!". I can't imagine that this tip isn't available elsewhere for free. The trick, I suppose, is figuring out the tweak, but it sounds like you're already well on the way to doing just that!
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"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
PhilB66
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2007, 11:25:51 AM »

Have you seen this msfn thread yet?
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MerleOne
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2007, 01:21:43 PM »

Thanks for this pointer, it's comforting to see others are also wondering...

Thanks to Darwin also !

Have you seen this msfn thread yet?
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.merle1.
f0dder
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 03:13:17 PM »

I've always had a bad feeling about those folks, including the marketing hype about their "ultimate"defrag. Cash to "reveal secret information"? Christ. I don't think it's the DisableLastAccess thing though (which is nice!), since that didn't "use to degrade performance".

Perhaps they're going to tell you to turn off DMA and set the drive to PIO mode? *laugh*. Or perhaps it's LargeSystemCache, which is pretty decent, but has nothing to do with CPU speed and everything to do with RAM.

But then again, neither of those are "NTFS features".

EDIT: oh wait, processor speed. NTFS compression? It does reduce the amount of I/O done, and is pretty cheap processor-wise these days.
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- carpe noctem
mwb1100
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 05:55:40 PM »

EDIT: oh wait, processor speed. NTFS compression? It does reduce the amount of I/O done, and is pretty cheap processor-wise these days.

I think you've probably hit on it.  I'm half tempted to pay them the $7.50 just to be able to 'out' the big secret.
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Josh
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 07:04:10 PM »

Perhaps mouser could use DC funds to find out the big secret and then post it to the web!
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MerleOne
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2007, 12:26:13 AM »

Actually, I wonder whether Disktrix can legally forbid such a publication ?

Perhaps mouser could use DC funds to find out the big secret and then post it to the web!
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.merle1.
justice
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2007, 04:09:51 AM »

get a 40% members discount and then one of us can buy it with a large group all donating 2p.
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f0dder
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 06:55:49 AM »

Well, I'm convinced that it's NTFS compression, direct quotes from the webpage and the PDF teaser (emphasis is mine):

Quote from: disktrix scamsters
And it's a feature that is normally disabled but which you can turn on in Vista, XP, 2000, NT, 2003 with a couple clicks of your mouse.
and from the PDF:
Quote from: disktrix scamsters
In fact it is quite a prominent feature in any operating system that supports the NT File System. However, when it was originally implemented into NTFS it was acutally deemed to reduce hard drive performance. This was because NTFS and this particular feature of NTFS was conceived at the time when a 300 MHz processor was considered state of the art.

It's really low demanding money for something like this, whatever it is.
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- carpe noctem
nudone
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2007, 07:22:57 AM »

i'll donate 3.5 DonationCredits to the first person that finds out what it is and reports back...

cody won't allow me to pay more than that.
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Josh
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2007, 07:27:52 AM »

I am thinking I will purchase this just so I can end this debacle and figure out what this thing is.
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Strength in Knowledge
Lashiec
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2007, 07:45:14 AM »

If it is what f0dder says, demand a refund!
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f0dder
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2007, 07:53:58 AM »

It would make sense anyway, they claim "Improve Your Hard Drive File Access Performance By 40% to 500%" which is quite a broad range... guess what, compression ratio (and thus the decrease in HDD access time) depends on the content of the files...

I've tried registering at MSFN to do a backlink to this thread on donationcoder, but unfortunately my mail host is down atm. so I can't confirm the account creation, doh >_<
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- carpe noctem
Dirhael
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2007, 08:12:48 AM »

If it is what f0dder thinks it is (and it would make sense), I think they're playing a dangerous game with their reputation as a company. Taking money for such a tip is despicable. Not only that, if it really is what f0dder suspect they completely fail to mention the increased CPU usage you would get from compressing/decompressing the files. Also, no matter what method you use, not every filetype is compressable. I seriously doubt you would see any improved performance (and certainly not 40%+) on a HDD that stored mainly movies and music.
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Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2007, 09:47:06 AM »

Actually you would probably expect decreased performance for music and video files!
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f0dder
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2007, 09:58:23 AM »

Actually you would probably expect decreased performance for music and video files!
Depends - NTFS should be smart enough not to write blocks as compressed when it can't reduce size... so it'd take a bit longer copying to NTFS-compressed .mp3, but (hopefully smiley) reading should be normal speed. Worth keeping in mind, though.

Would somebody please shoot the marketing division from DiskTrix, please?
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- carpe noctem
Josh
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2007, 10:21:09 AM »

Anyone willing to go in with me on purchasing this pdf file so I can end this mystery?
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Strength in Knowledge
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2007, 11:23:59 AM »

Actually you would probably expect decreased performance for music and video files!
Depends - NTFS should be smart enough not to write blocks as compressed when it can't reduce size... so it'd take a bit longer copying to NTFS-compressed .mp3, but (hopefully smiley) reading should be normal speed. Worth keeping in mind, though.

Would somebody please shoot the marketing division from DiskTrix, please?


Wouldn't NTFS have to check before each file read whether the file is compressed or not - OK not a big deal for a single MP3 file - but suppose you want to copy (or process) 5000 MP3 files - that will be a big extra hit.
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KenR
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2007, 11:27:54 AM »

Anyone willing to go in with me on purchasing this pdf file so I can end this mystery?
Finances are tight Josh, but it sounds like a worthy cause. Count me in.

Ken
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Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
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Darwin
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2007, 11:31:06 AM »

Josh - I'm in. I have a few DC credits in my DC account if you, nudone and I go in together we can get it for about $2.50 each. So, who wants to be the "real" money man and have some donation credits sent his way? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
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Josh
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2007, 11:35:04 AM »

Go ahead and shoot them over, I will make the purchase right away.
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Strength in Knowledge
KenR
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2007, 11:38:30 AM »

Go ahead and shoot them over, I will make the purchase right away.

Sent
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Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2007, 11:40:31 AM »

Actually Josh,

If you play your cards right, you might make some serious money in the deal. smiley

Ken
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Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
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Josh
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2007, 11:41:26 AM »

Alright, purchased, looking at it now
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Strength in Knowledge
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