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Author Topic: Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++) talks about the development of C++0x  (Read 5887 times)
mouser
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« on: August 13, 2007, 04:28:27 PM »

Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++) talks about the development of C++0x, the next generation of C++ standard.  This is a 1+ hour video of a talk.

Quote
A good programming language is far more than a simple collection of features. My ideal is to provide a set of facilities that smoothly work together to support design and programming styles of a generality beyond my imagination. Here, I briefly outline rules of thumb (guidelines, principles) that are being applied in the design of C++0x. Then, I present the state of the standards process (we are aiming for C++09) and give examples of a few of the proposals such as concepts, generalized initialization, being considered in the ISO C++ standards committee. Since there are far more proposals than could be presented in an hour, I'll take questions.


the site is clearly overloaded so it may be too slow to watch now directly -- but there is a torrent link for the video on that page.


from http://www.osnews.com
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 04:31:16 PM by mouser » Logged
f0dder
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[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 06:16:25 PM »

I wonder when a transcript will be available smiley
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mouser
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 04:35:37 PM »

Having just watched this i have to add my 2 cents about the c++0x next generation of c++.

I am a 20+ year C++ programmer.  Sometimes i think my brain works in C++ syntax, and everything else looks ugly to me.

Having said that, I think the entire C++0x episode is a total train wreck, a completely bad idea being badly implemented.
Watching that video (and reading the Tech Reports that the c++0x committee releases regularly just cemented that view in my mind).

My favorite cynical part is where Stroustrup says how c++ is being designed by democratic voting and how anyone with $1200 can become a voting member.  I think what we have here is a an out of control project which had some nice goals and just became too in love with the beaurocracy.

But leaving aside the issues with the committe, I think what we have here is basically an example of putting million dollar bandaids on a patient that is about to die.

C++ is a wonderful language, plagued by the baggage of being backward compatible with a long like of mistakes from it's past (ps. I highly recommend The Design and Evolution of C++ book, very educational and entertaining).

Im my view, C++ is dying, and it should be left to die.  It's still my primary programming language, and I still love it, but you simply cannot "fix" C++ by adding stuff, which is the ground rules that C++0x is operating under.  It's simply not feasible, and the result is ugly.

All programmers are familiar with having to decide whether to keep patching some fundamentally awkward and unsuitable code base, or starting again with a stronger and cleaner foundation.  Speaking personally, I'm very much looking forward to the future language which will replace C++ for me.  I haven't found it yet, but it's coming.  And it'll probably get here before C++0x makes it out of committee.

In truth, the C++0x debacle is going to have some very useful side effects.  Their are some brilliant language designers working on C++0x issues, and churning out interesting, detailed, thoughtfull, argued positions.  I suspect that many of the ideas that come out of C++0x arguments will find their way into younger, more consistent and more elegant languages.

As an academic challenge (improving upon a dying flawed langauge while keeping it backward compatible), the new changes to the c++ standard are quite interesting.  As an actual language for coding in, all i can say is: no thank you.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 04:38:21 PM by mouser » Logged
cnewtonne
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 01:05:27 AM »

C++ is a wonderful language, plagued by the baggage of being backward compatible with a long like of mistakes from it's past

Mouser,
On many occasions I read your thoughts about this subject. I would like, however, to ask you to explain us though an example or two how is the C++ language plagued by such baggage and how does it really affect you as your write programs in 2007.

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mouser
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 01:01:20 PM »

Ian Joyner wrote a long and thoughtfull and educational critique of C++: http://burks.brighton.ac..../pcinfo/progdocs/cppcrit/

Some pictures are missing from the online version but you can get a 31 page pdf here: http://www.literateprogramming.com/c++critique.pdf

And if you *really* like this kind of stuff, Ian wrote a 3rd edition expanding the critique to another languages here (63 pages, fantastic stuff): http://www.adaic.org/whyada/ada-vs-c/cppcv3.pdf
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mitzevo
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 02:39:46 AM »

how do you pronounce "C++0x" and what kind of *CENSORED* name is that.??
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f0dder
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »

It's easy to see why the name was chosen - "we're like umm gonna bring a new version of C++ and we dunno when, but presume it will be in 200x". And yeah, it's a crappy name.
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