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Author Topic: new launcher just released  (Read 16124 times)
nitrix-ud
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« on: July 18, 2007, 01:11:51 PM »

Wouah !

i must say it really looks impressive

if i had to take a guess i would say this is the closest alternative to quicksilver on windows

http://trydash.com/home/
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mouser
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 01:16:16 PM »

Looks pretty good - i'd appreciate hearing any features people see in dash that you think are missing from FARR.
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 01:27:41 PM »

yes it does look amazingly good, i've just seen the video and i will try it out soon

few things that seems great :
  • the ability to select files to perform actions on them (zip) ...
  • image preview
  • image resizing
  • it just looks gorgeous
  • Contextual history

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jgpaiva
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2007, 01:37:23 PM »

few things that seems great :
  • the ability to select files to perform actions on them (zip) ...
Farr also does, it's only a matter of making an alias action to do that Wink

  • image preview
yep, that's useful

  • image resizing
Also a matter of making an action, but trickier since there's no preview. (also, i don't find this very useful)

  • it just looks gorgeous
Indeed it does! I also agree that farr can lose some points in "beauty", when compared to other launchers. BUT, it alows you to see a bunch of entries at the same time, while others need some kind of keypress to show more results.

  • Contextual history
I'm not sure what this means..
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2007, 02:02:15 PM »

Quote
Quote
few things that seems great :

the ability to select files to perform actions on them (zip) ...

Farr also does, it's only a matter of making an alias action to do that

to my knowledge you cannot select files in the explorer, invoke FARR and zip files
i agree that you can make an alias to zip files but FARR is not aware of selected files out of the box

Quote
image resizing
Also a matter of making an action, but trickier since there's no preview. (also, i don't find this very useful)
again you cannot, same reason as above

Quote
Contextual history
I'm not sure what this means..
it seems that if you search Google using their google command, it will show your past searches (using that command)
i find this very useful

Maybe we should also mention what makes FARR unique !!
from the top of my head :
  • alias with regex mask
  • dosearch, restartsearch, /strayopen, $$cc
  • action alias << very very important !!!
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2007, 02:16:11 PM »

Quote
Quote
few things that seems great :

the ability to select files to perform actions on them (zip) ...

Farr also does, it's only a matter of making an alias action to do that

to my knowledge you cannot select files in the explorer, invoke FARR and zip files
i agree that you can make an alias to zip files but FARR is not aware of selected files out of the box
Right.. I see your point. I also wonder how can they do that, detect what's selected when the program is launched. Does anyone have a clue?
Also, does that work in alternative file explorers?

But.. You can drag and drop a file on to farr, and then type the action followed by enter smiley

Quote
Contextual history
I'm not sure what this means..
it seems that if you search Google using their google command, it will show your past searches (using that command)
i find this very useful
That can be useful for people who make url searches, i see.


That first part gave me an idea. Mouser: how about having another farr variable to be used in aliases: title/class of active window when farr was called. That'd be extremelly useful for window management alias such as this one.
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mouser
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 02:23:39 PM »

Quote
it seems that if you search Google using their google command, it will show your past searches (using that command)

interesting idea, and since FARR does keep track of past search histories by default i could add this as an option without too much trouble..
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 03:23:50 PM »

i'm trying Dash, and i have to say the ergonomy is quite amazing...

  • Folder navigation is great ! when you enter a folder, the sorting is alphabetical, then if you search, the more relevant results come first... then you choose a folder, again the sorting is alphabetical, etc.
  • the way it presents the command you choose, then the argument(s) (after pressing tab or space) is really nice (above the search box it shows : Google Search > keyword)
  • it is VERY fast (which i doubted before trying...)
  • the way it presents what you search against the current search result (like quicksilver)
  • there is a sound when you select an action, which makes more sense to me than when invoking the launcher, and it actually makes you wait a little bit  cheesy

i think there are great ideas there !

IMHO, it puts any launcher to shame except for our beloved FARR  Thmbsup
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 03:29:43 PM by nitrix-ud » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2007, 03:42:34 PM »

Quote
the way it presents what you search against the current search result (like quicksilver)

can you elaborate on this a bit?
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Grorgy
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 03:43:20 PM »

Given its price it would need to offer some pretty serious performance given the number of free alternatives which do much the same thing.
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2007, 03:46:20 PM »

Given its price
Oh.. i hadn't noticed it was payware!
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Grorgy
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 03:52:29 PM »

 embarassed about the first thing i look for jgpaiva, no point my looking at stuff i just cant afford if im really looking for something and not just browsing  Wink
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 04:06:59 PM »

Quote
the way it presents what you search against the current search result (like quicksilver)

can you elaborate on this a bit?

for example if I type "pee" the first result being "Pop Peeper"
it shows : Pop Peeper
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2007, 04:07:55 PM »

for example if I type "pee" the first result being "Pop Peeper"
it shows : Pop Peeper
That is, if you had already searched with google for "Pop Peeper", right? Wink
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 04:22:38 PM »

for example if I type "pee" the first result being "Pop Peeper"
it shows : Pop Peeper
That is, if you had already searched with google for "Pop Peeper", right? Wink

nope, nothing to do with google
it's just the way they show the first result

you should really see the video they made
http://www.trydash.com/home/dash-video-tour/

they are much better than me explaining their product  cheesy

PS: don't you guys know Quicksilver ?  embarassed
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2007, 04:38:25 PM »

Oh, now i see the idea. It saves any websearch you do, and has it available for other websearches. Makes sense smiley

PS: i do know quicksilver, but haven't had a chance to really use it...
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justice
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2007, 04:43:06 PM »

Seeing as FARR already saves recent launches, maybe it should be extended to recent alias searches too, so that when you invoke your recent alias, previous queries using that alias can be run faster.

I think what nitrix means is that when you type WOR and Microsoft Word is the first result then the query would be highlighted in bold so it would read Microsoft Word
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 04:45:59 PM by justice » Logged

nitrix-ud
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2007, 04:47:22 PM »

Quote
PS: i do know quicksilver, but haven't had a chance to really use it...

here is a very good screencast on the lifehacker site :
http://lifehacker.com/sof...o-extravaganza-250949.php

i have just used quicksilver a few minutes
but it seems to be the Graal of launchers....nothing less  cheesy
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2007, 05:01:30 PM »

i also like the fade out effect...
it makes more sense to me than the fade in effect of FARR

it's funny to see that the choices for the sound and the fade effect are the exact opposite of FARR

FARR = fade in and sound at the begining
DASH = fade out and sound at the end

but i'm sure that it would be very easy for mouser to add 2 new options  cheesy
then FARR > DASH !
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cnewtonne
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2007, 12:55:36 AM »

The difference between FARR and Dash is basically what differentiates free/donationware from payware in general. In effect, the focus is quite different. The former does not have the pressure or the absolute focus of maximizing adoption and therefore, revenue. It is this pressure that ultimately steers the developer. Time after time after time, experience has shown that for any software to be widely received and adopted it must be visually mind blowing, colorful, skinnable and sometimes at the expense of its features. Also, the application must deliver straight out of the box easily, naturally, and spontaneously.
There is no better example historically and currently than Apple in all its products and the iPhone is a startling example. Having sold more than 1/2 million 2-year contracts in less than 48 hours is so perplexing for my humble mind. A so called 'revolutionary' phone that requires user 2 steps to hang up a call is truly puzzling. But who cares, who on earth can resist its layout, colors,  and interface.
I think FARR comes from a totally different notion that is liberated from market pressure and revenue numbers crunching. Therefore, it lacked the user interface and got so technically bloated, IMH, with features some of which is repelling for users e.g. RegExp aliases.

I'm a power user and care the less for user interface at the expense of functionality. I have looked at most (if not truly all) launchers over the past 2-3 years and I can say with confidence that there is no launcher on this planet as feature full as FARR and I can bet a thousand dollars on it.

It has all to do why a developer is making his/her software. His/her motives, intentions, orientation will inescapably show in the software in some form or another.
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mouser
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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2007, 01:04:25 AM »

Thanks cnewtonne, that cheers me up -- i always feel strange when i see another FARR "competitor" out there, like why am i breaking my back if someone else is getting paid well to do similar work.

I think much of what you say is really true -- much of software is designed for the lowest common denominator, and the power users experience can suffer.  I try to listen to the power users most of all, since those are the people that interact with me here.

But of course I know you agree that doesn't mean there isn't stuff to learn from these smooth operators, and try to make the user interface experience as painless and natural for everyone.  There is always lots to learn from other programs.

Seriously though, thank you for those words of support -- I needed to hear that people still want FARR smiley
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Grorgy
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« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2007, 01:17:35 AM »

We sure do mouser, i wouldnt call myself a poweruser at all and I pretty much use it as a basic program launcher at the moment, though I am learning and what i particularly like is that as my knowledge grows the program can support that and i can do more with it, at the same time, it works  'out of the box' for me as well (and the price is right  smiley )
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nitrix-ud
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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2007, 01:57:32 AM »

Quote
Seriously though, thank you for those words of support -- I needed to hear that people still want FARR

of course we still want FARR  cheesy it is the best launcher !

Quote
Therefore, it lacked the user interface and got so technically bloated, IMH, with features some of which is repelling for users e.g. RegExp aliases
i'm not sure RegExp aliases are repelling, what they can do is really of use even for regular users... but it's true that how it is being set up is quite complex...


Quote
There is always lots to learn from other programs.
yes, mouser, it will only make FARR better

Cheer up !
FARR is still the best  Thmbsup
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yksyks
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2007, 04:33:16 AM »

I second all this. Regardless of how the interface is attractive, the functionality is what counts. Besides, I'm quite happy with Windows UI design, as far as I'm concerned, no need for skinning. I prefer consistent look of the applications.

Having written this I have just one comment to FARR interface, though. Somebody mentioned this already I suppose, but I'm strongly missing the Cleartype in both FARR results windows and its options. (It appears only on Options menu bar.) Could that be fixed?

Thanks a lot for all your invaluable work!

Edit: changing the fonts to some TrueType/OpenType fixes this in most places, so just the columns headings and Options dialog remain. Shouldn't the system default font be used here? That would be enough.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 05:31:05 AM by yksyks » Logged
allen
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« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2007, 08:34:21 AM »

 
Thanks cnewtonne, that cheers me up -- i always feel strange when i see another FARR "competitor" out there, like why am i breaking my back if someone else is getting paid well to do similar work.

I feel a little funny, I guess for you, seeing other "competitors" posted here too smiley  Screenshots of apps like Dash make me grimmace, though--Apple-esque appearance not withstanding, I just cannot imagine all that candy can be as lightweight as FARR.  As aforementioned, the regex aliases are killer--and the wealth of capabilities available in FARR in you're willing to put a bit of effort into configuring it are most rewarding.

Think of the competitors as a blessing--they can skim off the "lower denominators" who'll be more at home with a pretty, simple application.  Otherwise, they'd end up eating up hours of your time requiring you hold their hand through setting it up and using it -- hours you could be using to work on the software itself. cheesy

FARR's what first introduced me to DC and one of the most used apps on my PC.  Went to use my wife's computer the other day and spent several minutes sure her computer was broken--alt+space did nothing, the catalyst which every application on a computer system relies upon was not present, nothing worked!  She did have something on there called a "start menu", but I am not one for fumbling with ancient technology that may or may not be booby trapped.
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