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OWNING "hacker tools" illegal in Germany as of TODAY (jail & fines for everyone)

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gjehle:
do they really know any thing about "hacker tools"? a web browser can be used to do a lot of damage..-mitzevo (July 07, 2007, 12:33 AM)
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sorry to break it to you
but NO, they know SHIT about "what a browser is" let alone "hacker tools"
it's also linked in the blogpost but let me link it here again:

kid reporters interview German politicians (German language)
Here's a small best off:

Kid: Do you own a computer?
Politician: Yes I do, but I hardly use it, it mostly "disagrees" with me.
Politician: No.
Politician: Yes, and I also use the internet. But only if I have specific questions for which I then seek answers online.

Kid: Could you name a couple of webbrowsers?
Politician: uhhm, wait, what are "browsers" again?

Kid: Do you have your own homepage?
Politician: Yes, I do have my own homepage,.... BUT I hardly know how to use it myself, I have people doing that for me.

iphigenie:
Well I went to check the german original, and its not that broad.

The law makes it illegal to
* steal, sell, distribute passwords or other means to gain unauthorized access
* gain illegal access to computers or information
* use of software whose primary goal is to gain illegal access or sabotage computers. the law has an addendum covering the fact that many tools are also used for research, debugging, legitimate security testing etc.

It seems to me that many countries already have laws like this, but it seems germany didnt. WHich explains why so many hacker groups are based in germany

It might be a bit overkill but i understand the problem law enforcement has.

In our day of identity theft, people using palm computers to bypass car alarms or security systems, trojan malware being installed on peoples pc ad used to attack servers etc. you have the problem that if you catch someone in front of someone's house with security hacking tools there was nothig illegal with that. Neither was it illegal to own a laptop which had a list of 10000 credit card umbers, it seems... Neither was it illegal to by some device install spyware or backdoors on other people's pcs - no law covered these.

On the other hand there is something to be said for not-quite-legitimate use of tools to reverse engineer device communications (to create drivers for linux, make fixes or improvements the manufacturer should have done, test the security) - but i think in all those cases the difference would be you use the tools against systems you own or have legitimate use (contracted by work to do it etc)

It's a tricky act to balance

JennyB:

On the other hand there is something to be said for not-quite-legitimate use of tools to reverse engineer device communications (to create drivers for linux, make fixes or improvements the manufacturer should have done, test the security) - but i think in all those cases the difference would be you use the tools against systems you own or have legitimate use (contracted by work to do it etc)

It's a tricky act to balance
-iphigenie (July 07, 2007, 09:43 AM)
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British law has the magnificent-sounding charge of "Going equipping to steal."

From http://cps.gov.uk/legal/section8/chapter_a.html

Attempts

The appropriation may be complete even if the criminal's purpose is not fulfilled e.g. thief puts shopping into his bag dishonestly intending not to pay, but is caught before leaving the shop. Charge theft, not attempt theft.

The Prosecution does not have to prove that there is in existence property capable of being stolen. For example:
The would-be pickpocket who put a hand into someone else's empty pocket searching for something to steal will be guilty of attempted an attempt theft. In this example, the charge should be drafted as an attempt to steal property belonging to the victim.

If you cannot charge attempt because there is no act which is more than merely preparatory, consider section 25 Theft Act - going equipped to steal, cheat or burgle (Archbold, 21-324)
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Thanks, Google!

It seems this law has similar intent: evidence is needed of preparation to commit an offence.

tinjaw:
If you listen to security experts, much of "hacking" (which should be cracking, BTW) is just social engineering. Does that mean it will now be illegal to own a dictionary?

Lashiec:
If you listen to security experts, much of "hacking" (which should be cracking, BTW) is just social engineering. Does that mean it will now be illegal to own a dictionary?
-tinjaw (July 07, 2007, 01:21 PM)
--- End quote ---

A Spanish author not long ago said that writing (especially with pen and paper) is still considered a subversive act by certain society sectors. Tha interwebs are flooding with hackers! ;)

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