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Author Topic: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?  (Read 10223 times)

brotherS

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how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« on: April 02, 2007, 03:12:42 PM »
Hi,

how is that possible? I have the feeling that it should *not* take almost a day to move 50 GB from one external HD to another. Both drives are what's being sold these days, not old crap.

f0dder

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2007, 05:47:23 PM »
If you 1.5MByte/s transfer speed or less, the case is running in usb 1.x mode. If you get more than that, it should be running in usb2 mode... how high you'll get depends on a lot of factors, but you're not likely to reach the theoretical usb2 max speed of ~60MByte/s... protocol overhead and other stuff.

I've tested my (relatively crappy) enclosure with multiple drives, and I usually get around 20-30MB/s - and slightly more if I connect with FireWire instead, but I don't trust that because of some data corruption issues.
- carpe noctem

mwb1100

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 06:35:25 PM »
I have the feeling that it should *not* take almost a day to move 50 GB from one external HD to another.

I wonder if transferring from one external to another is killing throughput.  If you have space on a local drive to store the data temporarily, it might actually be faster to copy from one external to the local drive then copy from the local to the other external.

Also, if you have either or both of these drives connected via a hub, move it/them to ports on the PC itself.

I wouldn't be surprised if USB drivers/controllers/hubs aren't very good at dealing with  hi-speed throughput to multiple devices concurrently.

Remember to use a good copy utility (robocopy or such) that knows how to do copies with large buffers and overlapped I/O so the device drivers have the best chance of getting things optimized.

However, shoving 50GB of data around will still take some time - I'd guess that an hour is the best possible time you'd get, and that's with all components being top-notch.

lanux128

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 10:29:58 PM »
brotherS, you can easily check what version your USB controller is by doing the following:
1. Call up the Device Manager.
2. Expand the Universal Serial Bus Controllers branch.
3. If it says "Enhanced USB Controller", then your system is USB 2.0. Otherwise, if it says "USB Controller", then the system is USB 1.1.

i agree with mwb1100, you have to use specialized copy program to do the transfer.. my own personal experience, 40GB in about 20-30mins using xxcopy. btw, microsoft's robocopy (reputed to be one of the better copy programs) now has a gui

robocopy-gui.gif

mouser

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 10:37:43 PM »
thanks lanux for those tips

brotherS

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 05:37:59 AM »
brotherS, you can easily check what version your USB controller is by doing the following:
1. Call up the Device Manager.
2. Expand the Universal Serial Bus Controllers branch.
3. If it says "Enhanced USB Controller", then your system is USB 2.0. Otherwise, if it says "USB Controller", then the system is USB 1.1.
Thanks, *that* seems to be the problem :-(

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9720/usbproblemwq3.png
how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?


The text the arrow points to says device isn't working as it should since Windows can't load the needed drivers.

But where do I find the drivers? I just know that it's an ABIT IT7-MAX2 V2.0 mainboard.

mouser

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2007, 06:05:03 AM »
make sure you dont have usb2 disabled in the bios -- i reset my bios recently and it turned off usb2 support.

wr975

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2007, 06:19:38 AM »
That's a weird combination. I don't understand why you have INTEL and VIA USB on your board. Did you install a PCI card?

It seems a lot of USB ports are working, so perhaps just try using another port?

About drivers. Win XP SP2 usually needs no drivers for USB but you can still try.
http://www.abit-usa....ories=1&model=24
http://www2.abit.com...ET_TYPE=Socket%20478


 


brotherS

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2007, 06:53:02 AM »
make sure you dont have usb2 disabled in the bios -- i reset my bios recently and it turned off usb2 support.
IIRC my BIOS doesn't have such an option.

That's a weird combination. I don't understand why you have INTEL and VIA USB on your board. Did you install a PCI card?
Hmm, no, but I had to replace my mainboard and the new one came with an extension that gives me a front panel for USB etc. Maybe related?

It seems a lot of USB ports are working, so perhaps just try using another port?
According to what lanux128 said above they are all working on 1.x only now.

About drivers. Win XP SP2 usually needs no drivers for USB but you can still try.
http://www.abit-usa....ories=1&model=24
http://www2.abit.com...ET_TYPE=Socket%20478
Thanks! On both sides I see several drivers, but nothing that says "USB driver". Does the Intel Chipset Driver take care of USB too? And how can I find out which version of it I installed a while ago?

Btw, I'm using Windows 2000.

f0dder

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2007, 08:15:27 AM »
Via AND intel usb is a typical mix on a P4 system that has more controllers than the onboard the intel chipset offers - iirc i had a mix like that on my P4 systems.

IMHO a specialized copy program won't do terribly much for speed when simply copying one file at a time - the advantages of things like Overlapping I/O has more to do with application logic and maximal use of threads. And if there's multiple simultaneous I/O, well, disk performance is going to hell anyway :)

I did various tests of file reading methods a while ago, and didn't find any difference in completion speed between Overlapped I/O, normal ReadFile, ReadFile without buffering, and memory mapped files. I did, however, find that memory mapped file access took more CPU time while doing the copy, and that ReadFile without buffering took the least.
- carpe noctem

lanux128

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2007, 08:58:37 PM »
BrotherS, try removing the USB controllers then let Windows detect them again.. btw, there are some suggestions here for troubleshooting USB in WinXP and Win2000 also maybe you want to consider a BIOS Update for your motherboard..


brotherS

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2007, 03:23:15 AM »
BrotherS, try removing the USB controllers then let Windows detect them again.. btw, there are some suggestions here for troubleshooting USB in WinXP and Win2000 also maybe you want to consider a BIOS Update for your motherboard..
Thanks for the suggestions. I can't remove the USB controller since it's onboard. The one USB slot that connects to the front is connected with a cable, but I don't really want to unplug it while the PC is running.
;)

Microsoft's suggestions don't really help (I guess I need the missing drivers), and AFAIK I got the most recent BIOS update already.

f0dder

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2007, 07:49:00 AM »
I think he meant remove them from device manager, so they get re-detected and drivers get re-installed. That sometimes helps :)
- carpe noctem

CWuestefeld

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2007, 01:48:17 PM »
It's possible to have USB2 and still be slow. There are two different speed modes for USB2: Full and High. "Full" speed, despite its name, does NOT achieve the full speed potential; it's the slower of the two. What you really want is High Speed. Most USB2 devices support this, but some bargain-basement hardware may not.

f0dder

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2007, 01:52:40 PM »
It's annoying that they chose the confusing "full" and "high" speed labels... but it's probably because there's a "low" speed as well, for mice and keyboards and that sorts, and "full" is the max speed of USB1.x...
- carpe noctem

lanux128

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2007, 10:11:02 PM »
I think he meant remove them from device manager, so they get re-detected and drivers get re-installed. That sometimes helps :)
thanks, f0dder.. that's what i had on my mind.. :) btw, i just remembered that sometimes inadequate power supply interferes with the USB controllers. a friend had somewhat similar problems but wasn't able to pinpoint the exact cause until his thumb drive got fried.. :)

gjehle

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Re: how to find out if external HD uses USB 1.x or 2.x?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2007, 04:24:56 AM »
if you have a linux computer at hand try usbview

eg, here's my host controller:
EHCI Host Controller
Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.20-gentoo-r2 ehci_hcd
Serial Number: 0000:00:02.1
Speed: 480Mb/s (high)
Number of Ports: 10
Bandwidth allocated: 0 / 800 (0%)
Total number of interrupt requests: 0
Total number of isochronous requests: 0
USB Version:  2.00
Device Class: 09(hub  )
Device Subclass: 00
Device Protocol: 01
Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 64
Number of Configurations: 1

Config Number: 1
Number of Interfaces: 1
Attributes: e0
MaxPower Needed:   0mA

Interface Number: 0
Name: hub
Alternate Number: 0
Class: 09(hub  )
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 1

Endpoint Address: 81
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 4
Interval: 256ms

and that's my usb harddrive:
USB TO IDE Bridge
Manufacturer: Generic
Speed: 480Mb/s (high)
USB Version:  2.00
Device Class: 00(>ifc )
Device Subclass: 00
Device Protocol: 00
Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 64
Number of Configurations: 1
Vendor Id: 058f
Product Id: 6390
Revision Number:  1.00

Config Number: 1
Number of Interfaces: 1
Attributes: c0
MaxPower Needed: 100mA

Interface Number: 0
Name: usb-storage
Alternate Number: 0
Class: 08(stor.)
Sub Class: 6
Protocol: 50
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 01
Direction: out
Attribute: 2
Type: Bulk
Max Packet Size: 512
Interval: 0ms

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 2
Type: Bulk
Max Packet Size: 512
Interval: 0ms

and for a real information overdose, here's my old phillips 2u webcam

Philips webcam
Serial Number: 0169000069510101
Speed: 12Mb/s (full)
USB Version:  1.10
Device Class: 00(>ifc )
Device Subclass: 00
Device Protocol: 00
Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 8
Number of Configurations: 1
Vendor Id: 0471
Product Id: 0313
Revision Number:  0.03

Config Number: 1
Number of Interfaces: 3
Attributes: a0
MaxPower Needed: 500mA

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 0
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 0
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 1
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 196
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 2
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 292
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 3
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 448
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 4
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 592
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 5
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 704
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 6
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 776
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 7
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 840
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 8
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 896
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 9
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 960
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 0
Name: Philips webcam
Alternate Number: 10
Class: ff(vend.)
Sub Class: 0
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 2

Endpoint Address: 82
Direction: in
Attribute: 3
Type: Int.
Max Packet Size: 1
Interval: 32ms

Endpoint Address: 85
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 960
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 1
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 0
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 1
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 0

Interface Number: 2
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 0
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 2
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 0

Interface Number: 2
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 1
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 2
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 1

Endpoint Address: 84
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 90
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 2
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 2
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 2
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 1

Endpoint Address: 84
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 46
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 2
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 3
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 2
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 1

Endpoint Address: 84
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 25
Interval: 1ms

Interface Number: 2
Name: (none)
Alternate Number: 4
Class: 01(audio)
Sub Class: 2
Protocol: 0
Number of Endpoints: 1

Endpoint Address: 84
Direction: in
Attribute: 1
Type: Isoc
Max Packet Size: 16
Interval: 1ms

so if you REALLY want a crapload of information, pop in a knoppix cd/dvd and check if there's 'usbview' on it