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Author Topic: Accesspoint and/or router - help!  (Read 3552 times)
f0dder
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« on: February 05, 2007, 04:01:03 AM »

Okay, so I'm getting tired of having a long RJ45 cable lying all over, for my girlfriends laptop. It feels especially stupid with all this clutter as her laptop has built-in wlan. I borrowed an old access-point from a friend, but it's too unstable, so I'm looking for something decent.

And this is where I get frustrated - there's a myriad of different products stars

My base requirement is a stable accesspoint of at least 54mbps, able to cover a 50m2 apartment without signal strength dropping (the does mean handling a single wall splitting the bedroom and living room). WPA-PSK/WPA-2 are also required.

A four-port built-in 100mbit switch would also be nice, so I can get rid of my current switch and save a bit on clutter and power requirements. I'd rather have no built-in switch than something retarded that only runs ~50mbit even though it's wired.

I think it should be possible to find something that meets these requirements, but I haven't really been too successful - there's always been something wrong with the products I've found, like reviews indicating retarded signal strength or flaky connection wallbash

It would be even nicer if I could find a device that has routing, too - but then my requirements probably become too demanding: I need PPPoA support (which only seems to be available for a few devices?) and a built-in modem, since my current solution is a combined router/modem (ZyXel prestige 650) - and I want as few devices as possible.

Help? smiley

EDIT: forgot to mention that I have ADSL. Currently 4096/512, will get upgraded to 8092/512 in March - so a router/modem should be able to handle that high speeds and be stable.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 09:08:29 AM by f0dder » Logged

- carpe noctem
jgpaiva
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 08:52:20 AM »

I can't help you with the rest, but have some advice about this:
It would be even nicer if I could find a device that has routing, too - but then my requirements probably become too demanding: I need PPPoA support (which only seems to be available for a few devices?) and a built-in modem, since my current solution is a combined router/modem (ZyXel prestige 650) - and I want as few devices as possible.
I do understand the "as few devices as possible" idea. But having a router that includes a modem might not be the best of ideas. I say this because, at least here, there are about 3 different systems being used and 2 more coming in the future. If you have a router like that, you are sort of tied up to one internet connection device (i suppose you're referring to ADSL, right?). I prefer to have them separated, so that i won't have to buy a new router if i switch ISP.
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f0dder
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 09:07:08 AM »

It's because of cable clutter and also a bit due to power consumption - and the heat generated by transformers/adapters, those little power bricks can get relatively hot.

Have modem and router separate can make sense (adsl vs adsl2, pppoe vs pppoa vs whatever), but I'd like to combine at least as many of router/switch/accesspoint. And as my current zyxel thing is combined modem/router, I'd like to either combine everything in one, or just the accesspoint/switch. (But hmm, the zyxel can be configured in bridge mode... I guess a router/switch/accesspoint device could be attached then, and the zyxel would function just as a dumb modem?)
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 10:06:51 AM »

If you already have the modem/router, i suppose the right option would be to buy a wireless access point, which would complement what you already own and would spare you some money.
I also notice that recently (at least over here), ISPs are already distributing modem/router configuration, which means that if you switch isp, you'd maintain the current config.

As for what you mentioned about making the modem play dumb, i think there's something called DMZ (de-militarized zone, or something) which allows you to connect another router and give it that IP, so that only the other router will do NAT. I know my linksys router has that, but i'm not sure how it works because i've never used.

For a 50 sqr meter appartment, you shouldn't have any trouble with signal, even my old linksys router (which sucks, BTW), can handle my 100sqr meter appartment with VERY thick walls (old building).
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f0dder
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 10:22:11 AM »

DMZ is one option, "bridging mode" is another (but then the 2nd router would still need PPPoA support, afaik).

I had signal problems with the old accesspoint, but it was pretty broken smiley
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 10:24:19 AM »

db90h has been getting insane in his linksys router firmware coding and stuff.. maybe he has some advice?
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 02:36:00 PM »

I have been really - REALLY - pleased with my Netgear RangeMax Next 802.11n wireless router with the correspnding USB Wireless adapters. It starts up and connects to the internet almost instantly when you plug it in and I get rock solid internet connections. Add to the 300Mbps wireless connections and you have a really neat and fast network.

My only regret is that I didn't splash out for the Gigabit version of the router as the wired ports on mine are capped at 100Mbps (but having said that I don't often use the wired ports so I don't lose much).
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f0dder
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 05:12:23 PM »

mouser: I was actually thinking about noppie when I posted the thread, but haven't seen him around for a while Sad

carol: I'm not too fond of all the various proprietary speed hacks, but as long as it plays nicely with standard devices it's fine. And considering that the online shops I usually use have very few "pure" APs but a lot of mixed AP/router combos, I guess I'll be looking at those.

What's the precise model number you have? Does it support PPPoA? And can ADSL routing be turned off so it just functions as an AP? (I need either PPPoA so I can use the current ZyXel device as a dumb modem, or turn off ADSL routing in the future accesspoint so it doesn't interfere... I think smiley ).

GigaBit wired ports available? That's nice. I can live with 54mbit wlan if I can wire at 1gbit when necessary.

Guess my next task is to read up on bridging mode for the ZyXel to see if it can do what I hope it can - and then find some user experiences.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 05:47:53 PM »

carol: I'm not too fond of all the various proprietary speed hacks, but as long as it plays nicely with standard devices it's fine. And considering that the online shops I usually use have very few "pure" APs but a lot of mixed AP/router combos, I guess I'll be looking at those.

What's the precise model number you have? Does it support PPPoA? And can ADSL routing be turned off so it just functions as an AP? (I need either PPPoA so I can use the current ZyXel device as a dumb modem, or turn off ADSL routing in the future accesspoint so it doesn't interfere... I think smiley ).

GigaBit wired ports available? That's nice. I can live with 54mbit wlan if I can wire at 1gbit when necessary.

Guess my next task is to read up on bridging mode for the ZyXel to see if it can do what I hope it can - and then find some user experiences.

The router/modem I have is ADSL2. It is the Netgear RangeMax Next DG834N (but there is a Gigabit version for wired connections that would be worth seeking out with a different product code). They both have 4 wired ports.

Encapsulation can be set as either PPPoA (PPP over ATM) or or PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet).

I am not sure about disabling the ADSL modem but you can certainly disconnect (and not connect automatically) and use it as a simple AP.

The client wireless connection I have found ideal are the USB 2 based WN121T devices which work at 300Mbps fine throughout my house. I used to have a 54g set up and couldn't get full speed (or close) upstairs even with a booster upstairs. With the current setup I get 300Mbps on my PCs upstairs and downstairs with no extra hardware.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 05:50:06 PM by Carol Haynes » Logged

f0dder
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 03:55:11 AM »

Oooooh, that's a router with built-in modem!

The £1,000,000 question is: can an ADSL2 modem do regular ADSL? Because if it can, this would be the only device I need. The following quote from the datasheet sounds promising, especially when compared with WikiPedia.
Quote from: enus_ds_dg834n.pdf
Standards: WAN (ADSL): ITU 992.1 (G.dmt) Annex A, ITU 992.2 (G.lite), ITU 992.3 ADSL2 (G.dmt.bis), ITU 992.5 ADSL2+

Quote from: Carol Haynes
The client wireless connection I have found ideal are the USB 2 based WN121T devices which work at 300Mbps fine throughout my house. I used to have a 54g set up and couldn't get full speed (or close) upstairs even with a booster upstairs. With the current setup I get 300Mbps on my PCs upstairs and downstairs with no extra hardware.

Darn Sad - as long as it can cover our 50m2 flat that's okay, though. I don't really feel like adding usb adapters since the laptop has built-in WiFi, and my box is located right next to the router smiley

I can't seem to find your exact model here in .dk, but there's an uglier-looking DG834PN that would seem to do the trick as well. And I also can't seem to find the edition with gigabit networking (the one I can find with gigabit seems not to have ADSL2+ modem).

But it seems like I'm getting closer to finding what I want!
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 05:58:13 AM »

As far as I can tell the ADSL 2 modem is backward compatible with ADSL.

It works fine with 54g WiFi cards too ... apparently it increases WiFi range and strength up to 50% with older devices though I haven't tested this personally. You will get faster networking from multiple 54g devices because the AP uses MIMO technology so it can squirt out a total of 300Mbs - but each device will capped at their maximum rate. (At least that is how I understand it to work).
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f0dder
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2007, 11:55:59 AM »

I've been looking at the LinkSys WAG300N which might suit my needs (still haven't been able to find DG834N). It only has 100mbit wired and not gigabit Sad, but I guess I can live with that.

Payday on wednesday, I'll probably order the router then. If it doesn't do the trick, I'll just use the "ordered online, 14 days full return warranty" Kiss
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 02:22:19 PM by Carol Haynes » Logged

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2007, 02:27:51 PM »

Here is the one I have (on the Danish site) ...

http://dk.netgear.com/Pro...rsandGateways/DG834N.aspx

There is a router (look up DG834T) which has a gigabit interface but it doesn't have the ADSL modem.

By the way I only edited your post to correct the URL
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f0dder
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2007, 02:35:29 PM »

Hm, I had my URL wrong? Darn. Your "dk.netgear.com" site doesn't do much for me, though... can't seem to order online, and the distribution partners things is pretty useless too. Thanks for your effort, though smiley

I'll rather have 100mbit+modem than gigabit. Gbit would be nice, but if I end up needing it, I can always get a switch.

So... LinkSys it is (it's even got a nifty Cisco logo on it smiley ). I'll probably do a mini-review or at least post impressions here once I get my hands on it.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2007, 04:42:25 PM »

It's strange because it is available in Europe (I have one in the UK) but I can't find anyone who stocks it outside the UK.

You could always call Netgear and ask them where you can buy one - or telephone one of the distributors on the website (there are two list if you click on the where to buy link). Failing that you could always buy one from the UK and use a UK/Europe plug adapter (dead cheap).

Personally I wouldn't touch another Linksys access point after previous experiences.

The Netgear European Offices for contact are:

UK & Ireland
NETGEAR International, Inc.
Greenwood House
London Road
Bracknell
Berkshire RG12 2AA
United Kingdom
P: +44 (0) 1344 458200
F: +44 (0) 1344 311570
E: uksales@netgear.com

SWEDEN
NETGEAR Filial Sweden
Veddestavagen 13
175 62 Jarfalla
Sweden
P: 46-8-505-821-71
F: 46-8-505-821-74

FRANCE
NETGEAR France
2 Rue de Marly
Le Chesany
France 78150
P: 01 39 23 9855
F: 01 39 43 0847

BELGIUM
NETGEAR Netherlands bv
Schorpioenstraat 286
3067 KW  Rotterdam
The Netherlands
P.: +31 (0)10 2070 430
F: +31 (0)10 2070 439

GERMANY
(Eastern & Central Europe HQ)
NETGEAR Deutschland GmbH
Konrad-Zuse-Platz 1

SPAIN
NETGEAR International, Inc.
Muelle de Barcelona, s/n
WTC. Edif. Sur, 2 Pl
08039 Barcelona
Spain
P: 34 93 344 32 04
F: 34 93 344 32 99
E: clientes@netgear.es
81829 Munchen
Germany
P: 49 89 92793-2500
F: 49 89 92793-2510

ITALY
NETGEAR Int'l, Inc. - Italian B.O.
Piazzale Biancamano 8
20121 Milan
Italy
P: 39 02 72546624
F: 39 02 72546500

POLAND
Netgear Poland Sp. z o.o.
Regus Sheraton Plaza
ul. Prusa 2
00-493 Warsaw, Poland
P: (+48 22) 657 01 98
F: (+48 22) 657 00 31
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 04:46:09 PM by Carol Haynes » Logged

f0dder
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2007, 05:14:29 PM »

Thanks for the effort, Carol!

I'll give the linksys thing a try, though. The place where I'm going to order it from is 30min of bicycling from here which means delivery (and, if necessary, return) is pretty fast. Certainly less hassle than tracking down a distributor... and I do have those 14 days to test whether it work okay. It's got a cisco logo on it, so it can't be all bad? tellme . The user manual .pdf also looked decent enough, seems to have the features I need.

Of course the final factors will be speed and reliability, and we'll just have to see about that. Dunno just how much the cisco logo on it means... but I've been very happy with the PIX I got for the museum, super stable even when stressed with lots of connections and 8mbit downstream. (Yeah, that device is in a completely different price range).
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