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Author Topic: firefox vs. opera: FF is slow when hitting 'back', opera just uses cache  (Read 4197 times)
urlwolf
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« on: February 24, 2007, 12:14:07 PM »

I'm currently using firefox
Hoever there is one feature that I really miss from opera: FF is slow when hitting 'back', opera just uses the cache, while firefox reloads the entire site(!), a pretty bad decision 99% of the time if you ask me (the 1% where this is a good idea is sites that refresh content every few seconds, like gmail).

Is there any plugin/option to make firefox reuse its cache when hitting 'back'?
Thanks
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dantheman
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2007, 07:04:36 PM »

Fasterfox gives lets you tinker with the amount of cache Firefox uses.
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kimmchii
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 04:24:44 AM »

i use proxo to solve this problem, hitting back in FF is as fast as Opera for me, the filters also return to the position of the page when going back.

Quote
[HTTP headers]
In = TRUE
Out = FALSE
Key = "Cache-Control: Always Cache (in) {1.d}"
Match = "*"

In = TRUE
Out = FALSE
Key = "ETag: Always Cache (in) {1.d}"
Match = "*"

In = TRUE
Out = FALSE
Key = "Expires: Always Cache (in) {1.d}"
Match = "*"

In = TRUE
Out = FALSE
Key = "Pragma: Always Cache (in) {1.d}"
Match = "no-cache"

In = TRUE
Out = FALSE
Key = "Vary: Always Cache (in) {1.d}"
Match = "*"

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dk70
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 08:40:21 AM »

Feature has been in Firefox since 1.5 http://kb.mozillazine.org...history.max_total_viewers no tricks needed to activate.  Ive heard some say Operas cache is still faster so may Firefox version has some delay, not so efficient, has problems with certain pages or whatever. Same thing though and it does work, very much depending on content. Some pages are almost as fast with normal cache, others clearly take advantage of quick-cache.

May be you followed some tweak guide and have it disabled? To save ram perhaps. In Fasterfox this is "Fastback" - second shot from bottom http://fasterfox.mozdev.org/screenshots.html

Might want to disable Fasterfoxs enhanced prefetching http://fasterfox.mozdev.o....html#What_is_prefetching not really a popular feature and why some dont like extension. Not all file types are prefetched but he says it is up to web master to prevent or not his problem so hmmm. Be careful with what preset you chose, check what is being enabled. Should you want to uninstall first chose "Default" preset, restart Firefox then uninstall. 
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tomos
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2007, 02:42:55 PM »

I believe when Opera starts with tabs from previous session, it loads these from the cache.
FF on the other hand opens the pages anew.. which can lead to a very long wait!
dont know if my understanding is correct??

If so, is there a way to change this behaviour in FF - I have Session Saver extension installed & checked it's options but couldnt find anything, in fact if you go to where they're saved its just links.

will go have a look at this fasterfox..

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Tom
cmpm
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2007, 04:02:02 PM »

I've been using firefox for a while, about a month now and found that the 'minimize to tray' addon and the 'minimize to tray enhancer' addon are speeding up my browsing a lot. In the options of these addons are tweaks that can help. And it doesn't use a lot of resources either. Take it from me who is still on a pentium 3 machine. smiley These addons keeps firefox loaded but idle.

The main one was that I was hitting X instead of the minimize arrow, until I found the tweak to have the X (close) button minimize firefox to the tray.

No problems with the back button here. Quicker then ie7.

I also have fasterfox too. Helped tremendously.

But I haven't used Opera so I don't know a difference, but thought I'd add a thought or two.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 04:06:14 PM by cmpm » Logged
nontroppo
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2007, 04:37:50 PM »

Note, Opera has slowed down its RAM cache a bit in recent builds for sites who use onUnload Javascript and some other heuristic triggers (to allow AJAX history navigation to work etc). You can regain Opera's phenomenal speed by setting:

opera:config#UserPrefs|HistoryNavigationMode to 3

Then, using Site specific preferences you can enable compatible mode only for sites like GMail that benefit from it.

Firefox's recent history cache is still both slower and much more memory hungry than Opera's. I've tested this by opening Google Image Searches for Picasso, Magritte and Dali (20 images per page). Then navigation through ten pages (thus 200 images per tab and 600 images total). Firefox fails after 5 (default settings) back navigations in total. Opera can render *all* of the 30 pages and 600 images immediately using some 40% less RAM!

kimchii — that Proxo filter will not stop Firefox from having to rerender web pages. You probably have Fastback enabled in Firefox. Your filter *will* stop sites forcing you to revalidate HTTP resources, though will make forums etc not automatically update unless overridden.

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tomos
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2007, 05:02:33 PM »

I've been using firefox for a while, about a month now and found that the 'minimize to tray' addon and the 'minimize to tray enhancer' addon are speeding up my browsing a lot. In the options of these addons are tweaks that can help. And it doesn't use a lot of resources either. Take it from me who is still on a pentium 3 machine. smiley These addons keeps firefox loaded but idle.

The main one was that I was hitting X instead of the minimize arrow, until I found the tweak to have the X (close) button minimize firefox to the tray
sounds great, very helpful for my old maching too - will try

Firefox's recent history cache is still both slower and much more memory hungry than Opera's. I've tested this by opening Google Image Searches for Picasso, Magritte and Dali (20 images per page). Then navigation through ten pages (thus 200 images per tab and 600 images total). Firefox fails after 5 (default settings) back navigations in total. Opera can render *all* of the 30 pages and 600 images immediately using some 40% less RAM!

don't be making me envious  mad  Wink 
(I have other reasons why I using FF...I'd prefer not to, honestly tellme )

I was actually taking the thread a little off topic
(but thought it was related enough not to have to  start a new one)
by asking about how the browsers startup while re-opening tabs from previous session
& wondering if there was a way to make FF start without reloading all webpages as opposed to simply saving them which i believe Opera does (I've gotten this bad tab-habit...)


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Tom
cmpm
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2007, 05:05:56 PM »

These are some tweaks in Fasterfox-for the history deal I believe.



* screenshot.png (21.59 KB, 466x522 - viewed 136 times.)
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sri
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 07:14:12 AM »

I installed this add-on and am using the Turbo setting. Noticeable improvement!
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Dirhael
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 08:03:24 AM »

Note, Opera has slowed down its RAM cache a bit in recent builds for sites who use onUnload Javascript and some other heuristic triggers (to allow AJAX history navigation to work etc). You can regain Opera's phenomenal speed by setting:

opera:config#UserPrefs|HistoryNavigationMode to 3

Then, using Site specific preferences you can enable compatible mode only for sites like GMail that benefit from it.

Firefox's recent history cache is still both slower and much more memory hungry than Opera's. I've tested this by opening Google Image Searches for Picasso, Magritte and Dali (20 images per page). Then navigation through ten pages (thus 200 images per tab and 600 images total). Firefox fails after 5 (default settings) back navigations in total. Opera can render *all* of the 30 pages and 600 images immediately using some 40% less RAM!

kimchii — that Proxo filter will not stop Firefox from having to rerender web pages. You probably have Fastback enabled in Firefox. Your filter *will* stop sites forcing you to revalidate HTTP resources, though will make forums etc not automatically update unless overridden.



I never found out how to enable the new history nav mode on a site-per-site basis. Care to enlighten a fellow Opera user? smiley
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nontroppo
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 08:18:28 AM »

Opera are trying to "simplify" the UI and so options like this are only available via editing the site prefs INI file manually. To do this:

1) In Opera, make a site-specific prefs entry for SiteX (context-menu > Edit site preferences...) via the UI. I normally remove the domain www to leave just the main site e.g. nytimes.com rather than www.nytimes.com. Close Opera.
2) Go to your profile directory (look in opera:about to se where it is) and find override.ini. Open it in an editor of your choice.
3) Find the site you added, and append:

User Prefs|History Navigation Mode=#

# is
Automatic mode = 1 (uses heuristics to best guess)
Compatible mode = 2 (slow mode)
Fast mode = 3 (turbo mode!)

to that entry, for example:

[copy or print]
[ebay.co.uk]
User Prefs|Ignore Unrequested Popups=1
User Prefs|Accept Cookies Session Only=0
User Prefs|Local CSS File=C:\Documents and Settings\styles\ebay.css
User Prefs|User JavaScript=0
User Prefs|Always Load User JavaScript=0
User Prefs|Enable Referrer=1
User Agent|Spoof UserAgent ID=1
User Prefs|History Navigation Mode=3

In this example, this forces Opera to use fast navigation for ebay.co.uk - so i ensure I get lightning fast navigation there no matter what my default global setting is :-) Setting the number to 2 uses the compatible mode - which I use for [mail.google.com]. I also add some personal modifications to the CSS (change link colours and fonts to my liking), turn off my UserJS (aka greasemonkey) scripts as I don't use them for EBay, and allow EBay to set permanent cookies (my default sets all cookies as session only). thos last options are fully available via the UI. Site-specific preferences rocks, and IINM it is coming to Firefox too in V3 :-)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 08:26:41 AM by nontroppo » Logged

Dirhael
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 08:25:20 AM »

Opera are trying to "simplify" the UI and so options like this are only available via editing the site prefs INI file manually. To do this:

1) In Opera, make a site-specific prefs entry for SiteX (context-menu > Edit site preferences...).
2) Go to your profile directory (look in opera:about to se where it is) and find override.ini. Open it in an editor of your choice.
3) Find the site you added, and append:

User Prefs|History Navigation Mode=3

to that entry, for example:

[copy or print]
[ebay.co.uk]
User Prefs|Ignore Unrequested Popups=1
User Prefs|Accept Cookies Session Only=0
User Prefs|Local CSS File=C:\Documents and Settings\styles\ebay.css
User Prefs|User JavaScript=0
User Prefs|Always Load User JavaScript=0
User Prefs|Enable Referrer=1
User Agent|Spoof UserAgent ID=1
User Prefs|History Navigation Mode=3

In this example, this forces Opera to use fast navigation for ebay.co.uk - so i ensure I get lightning fast navigation there no matter what my default global setting is :-) Setting the number to 1 uses the compatible heuristic - which I use for [mail.google.com]. I also add some personal modifications to the CSS (change link colours and fonts to my liking), turn off my UserJS (aka greasemonkey) scripts as I don't use them for EBay, and allow EBay to set permanent cookies (my default sets all cookies as session only). thos last options are fully available via the UI. Site-specific preferences is such a fantastic feature, and it is coming to Firefox too in V3 :-)

Yeah I know, I use site specific preferences for UserJS & CSS all the time...but I did not know that I could set the navigation mode there as well. Thanks a lot for the info, it should come in handy! I use mode 3 all the time, but as you briefly mentioned already, some sites do need mode 1 to function correctly and it always seemed strange having to change this option globally when I needed it. I probably should have looked this up on your great Opera wiki before asking though, as I'm sure there's some info on it already smiley
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