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Last post Author Topic: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?  (Read 116069 times)

Darwin

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2007, 08:58:55 AM »
I just wanted to say a BIG thank you to Jeff for posting about exifPro - I'm not sure that I've done so before. Wonderful find. I'm still living mostly in PhotoCollector land because I am not yet able to index my complete collection with exifPro, but I love where exifPro is going.

tomos - I always buy in US dollars. It's a bit of a gamble but with the Canadian/US/Euro exchange being so volatile, but I am better off paying in US dollars in the long run. This has only dinged me once - I RMA'd something (PaperPort?) and lost $2 Cdn. courtesy of the exchange rates, but on balance on another occasion I made money doing the same thing!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 12:49:38 PM by Darwin »

JeffK

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2007, 09:37:46 AM »
Thanks for the thanks.  It's good to know that it has been helpful to someone.  My mood is further lifted watching Australia get 5 South African wickets in rapid succession in the Cricket World Cup semi-final.

I also generally pay in $US - it seems that the exchange rates always favours that rather than paying in my local $AU.

The Australian dollar has lifted in the last several weeks from approx 75USc to 83c.  So buying software in $US has been cheaper over that period.

Jeff

Darwin

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2007, 12:53:20 PM »
Quote
The Australian dollar has lifted in the last several weeks from approx 75USc to 83c.
;D Thanks for the heads up - I'll have to practice due diligence when buying DOpus 9 on Friday (Thursday night here, he writes hopefully...) - The Universal Currency Converter is my friend!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

johnk

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2007, 06:46:50 PM »
I'm coming a bit late to this discussion, but I've been through the same exhausting process in the last few months. Usual story. I fall into the keen amateur shooter category. Always organised my pics neatly in folders. Very logical. Could find things quickly.

Until now. Just too many pics. Needle in a haystack.

I think one difference between film and digital photography is that the "keen amateur" has software needs (particularly cataloging needs) very similar to the pros. Pixels are free. We shoot more often. We all shoot hundreds of pics at an event without a second thought. Even casual and occasional shooters will eventually end up with thousands or tens of thousands of pics, and they won't have a clue how to find the ones they want.

So it's worth looking at what the pros do. The DAM Book by Peter Krogh (http://www.thedambook.com/) is a good starting point - a thorough look at the theory and practice of digital asset managment. For what it's worth, he uses iView, Bridge and Photoshop.

If you're not sure you need to go that far, it's still worth taking a look a Peter Krogh's forums (http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php), where they discuss this stuff in great detail. Very helpful.

In the end, I plumped for iView. Nice GUI, fairly intuitive, nice and quick to use once catalogs are built, and a lot of pro photographers have been relying on it for some time, which must mean it's reliable and scalable. It should cater for all my needs for the foreseeable future. As MrCrispy points out on the first page of this thread, MS bought iView and is rolling it out soon as v1 of MS Expression Media. As MrCrispy also points out, views will vary on whether this is a bad or good thing.

On the plus side, registered users of v3 of iView Media Pro will get a free upgrade to Expression Media v1.

Darwin

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2007, 08:31:26 PM »
Thanks for positng this, John. I may have to give iView a look now (software junkie, you see. That makes you the pusher!)...

Er... no. Looks FANTASTIC and your points about amateur photographers having the same needs as the pros when it comes to image organization and cataloguing are spot on. However, there is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks I'm going to ante up $200 for it (not a principle thing, just economic reality!) so I won't be tempting myself with a trial! Looks fabulous, though.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: May 09, 2007, 08:38:06 PM by Darwin »

MrCrispy

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2007, 02:16:18 AM »
I completely agree that the needs of the pro and amateur are very different and software should should have complexity and be  priced accordingly. What bothers me is that in the field of digital imaging, consumers are not given access to essential features and the software is dumbed down. I refer of course to the lack of proper tagging support in all but a few photo management apps.

In my view, the primary area where the needs of the pro photographer differ from me are in the areas of workflow management, and RAW support. Both of these are quite expensive to implement in terms of software resources. But a home user has no need of workflow, lighttables, non destructive RAW editing etc. What I DO need is a way to catalog and organize my photos using published standards, and not have it cluttered with useless junk which make it incapable of handling a decent sized image library.

Pro's also typically have dedicated, expensive hardware with multiple gigs of RAM. They don't mind spending time in these apps because its their job. I just want to quickly find a few pictures I'm interested in.

As I said before this is like having an mp3 organizer which doesn't support id3 tags, with the only way to get that being to purchase a full blown sound editing studio.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2007, 04:59:58 AM »
But a home user has no need of workflow, lighttables, non destructive RAW editing etc. What I DO need is a way to catalog and organize my photos using published standards, and not have it cluttered with useless junk which make it incapable of handling a decent sized image library.

I disagree on this - lots of home users have cheap digital SLRs these days and shoot RAW photos. If you shoot in RAW then you need a way to edit non-destructively if you are to protect your 'digital negatives'. There are lots of keen amateur photographers out there who need to do things light automate white balance on a series of photos too and then a workflow approach can be very useful and efficient.

johnk

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2007, 06:51:33 AM »
I disagree on this - lots of home users have cheap digital SLRs these days and shoot RAW photos. If you shoot in RAW then you need a way to edit non-destructively if you are to protect your 'digital negatives'.
Yes, I think this just reinforces the point brought up earlier in the thread that we all have different needs. There is no one solution. I'd say the vast majority of "keen amateurs" (i.e. those for whom photography is a serious hobby to which they devote much of their spare time) shoot RAW all the time. I haven't shot anything other than RAW in years, and I can't imagine why I'd want to do so. The advantages of RAW are huge. But for the type of home user who only takes pics on holidays and special family occasions, it would be overkill and pointless. And there are plenty of people in the middle ground between those groups. And some of them do shoot RAW.

So just to qualify my previous post, iView (and the DAM book, and the DAM forums) are really for those who are fairly serious hobbyists. Maybe occasional shooters don't need cataloging software at all. Keep it simple.  Stick in IPTC captions as a minimum, use sensible folder structures for archiving, and get a decent image browser than can edit and search IPTC fields. In the end, it's all about the amount of photography you do, and the numbers of images you generate and keep.

I would however, go back to the first point I made above. The average person is taking more pictures. So in 20 years' time, even the casual shooter may have a hard disk full of pics. Personally, this is an area where I'd tend to err on the side of caution and get software that is robust and scalable.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 06:53:05 AM by johnk »

Darwin

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2007, 03:08:21 PM »
Just a heads up that a new build of exifpro is available for download.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Veign

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2007, 04:14:33 PM »
Also, if you're just looking to see the Exif information inside of a Jpeg image you can use the online service at:
http://camerasummary.com/

nontroppo

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2007, 06:20:39 PM »
Sorry for not reading through all the posts here, but I gotta spill: I  :-* lightroom.

I initially was just looking for a organizer - I didn't think I wanted any more. My plan was to use Adobe Camera Raw + Photoshop for doing the pixel-pushing. Bridge has some horrid bugs for me in CS2 and so off I went downloading things to try. Unexpectedly, my journey took me to Bibble Pro, which is both a store and a pixel pusher, and using RAW + JPGs I could do my non-destructive editing with ease. However, Bibble is pretty sluggish as you add more and more images, so off I went again, until I hit the Lightroom beta. As is the golden rule on a computer - find the shortcuts and I was amazed and delighted. Lightroom is just beautiful. I hate to use the non-word, but 'workflow' is so well balanced - and it does make a difference. I am not a professional photographer, but I do take pride in my photos. Lightroom, especially 1.1 allows fantastic flexibility, comprehensive tagging and rugged handling. But tying the darkroom so closely into the image store makes a real difference. Applying enhancments to sets of images suddenly becomes less of a batch battle. The darkroom itself is just fantastic, from clarity to selective colour control to competitive noise removal and selective sharpening. This works on JPGs and RAW transparently. Performance, at least on a Macbook is excellent; only if I have a full Virtual machine running XP, photoshop open and some others would I notice any slowdown. I actually resent Adobe for many things (their bug fixing is atrocious, they respond arrogantly and the CS suite drags all but the strongest machine to Pentium II performance), but they have weaved magic with Lightroom, truly photo-heaven...
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 06:22:19 PM by nontroppo »

Carol Haynes

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2007, 08:13:29 PM »
Quote
but they have weaved magic with Lightroom, truly photo-heaven...

That's probably because they had a lot of new (and very experienced talent working on it). The whole team from Pixmantec (who produced RawShooter - a truly excellent program) moved over to the LightRoom team. I was really pleased that as a Pixmantec customer Adobe gave me a free upgrade to LightRoom - I too think it is superb, brilliant and beautiful (and that's on Windows!). Not cheap though if you have to pay for it ;)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 08:32:03 PM by Carol Haynes »

edbro

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2007, 08:24:52 PM »
Not cheap though if you have to pay for it ;)
I'll say! Reading about this prompted me to look it up. It is about $300 on Amazon.com. Too steep for my budget. That's about $300 more than Picasa or Xnview.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2007, 08:33:16 PM »
Just looked on the Adobe website and it is listed at $299. I am really glad I bought Pixmantec RawShooter Premium when I did - that cost me £40 (~$75) so I feel quite chuffed with a free copy of LightRoom ;)

Curt

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2007, 01:48:23 AM »
.. listed at $299. ... ~$75 ...
...I feel quite chuffed with a free copy of LightRoom

Wow, some deal, you made, Carol !!  :up:

tomos

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2007, 01:15:46 PM »
Just a heads up that a new build of exifpro is available for download.
nother new version Oct 5th

any users of DOpus & ExifPro, esp if you've ever made ExifPro default viewer..
 could you please look at this thread:
default image open assoc. screwed up - DOpus/ExifPro dont mix?

EDIT: dont worry
(unless you were having problems too in which case go see), that Dopus/ExifPro thing is sorted.
Tom
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 03:22:54 PM by tomos »

superboyac

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #116 on: February 25, 2008, 06:15:16 PM »
Can anyone help me find a program to recommend to my sister?

Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with image organizers.  I use ACDSee just for photo browsing, but I've never tried organizing anything beyond the regular directory structure.  My sister's needs are very simple and she's not a poweruser on the computer, so all of this exif stuff and powerful featureset is not for her.  Her needs are the following:
--transfer files from the camera to the computer
--organize the pictures in a user-friendly way.  Tags, albums, whatever, as long as it has a good interface and easy to use.
--Easily prepare a selected group of photos or albums to be printed by either putting them on a cd or something, or using an online service.

I know a regular file manager will do most of this, but I'm afraid even the file manager method would be too complicated for her needs.

I'm thinking she might like ExifPro, it's cheap and looks good.  Maybe Picasa?  I used Picasa recently and thought it was kind of klunky and weird, with a smooth interface (but I didn't think it was all that easy to use...just a little weird).  ACDSee has album organizing features (that I've never used), but it seems simple enough like just click pictures to include in albums, but there probably is something better.  Photo Collector looks kind of like something she would like.

tomos

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #117 on: February 26, 2008, 02:24:24 AM »
Exif Pro isnt really much good for tagging (I gave up on that aspect of it at any rate)

I would have thought Picassa would be good that you can simply scroll down through all fotos, but I havent used it in  a couple years...

What's that Kodak software EasyShare like?

Me, I dont know of any "easy" photo-software that uses tags :-\
Tom

Babis

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2008, 05:01:16 AM »
Can anyone help me find a program to recommend to my sister?

Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with image organizers.  I use ACDSee just for photo browsing, but I've never tried organizing anything beyond the regular directory structure.  My sister's needs are very simple and she's not a poweruser on the computer, so all of this exif stuff and powerful featureset is not for her.  Her needs are the following:
--transfer files from the camera to the computer
--organize the pictures in a user-friendly way.  Tags, albums, whatever, as long as it has a good interface and easy to use.
--Easily prepare a selected group of photos or albums to be printed by either putting them on a cd or something, or using an online service.

I know a regular file manager will do most of this, but I'm afraid even the file manager method would be too complicated for her needs.

I'm thinking she might like ExifPro, it's cheap and looks good.  Maybe Picasa?  I used Picasa recently and thought it was kind of klunky and weird, with a smooth interface (but I didn't think it was all that easy to use...just a little weird).  ACDSee has album organizing features (that I've never used), but it seems simple enough like just click pictures to include in albums, but there probably is something better.  Photo Collector looks kind of like something she would like.

Microsoft Digital Image Suite Library

tomos

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #119 on: February 26, 2008, 05:06:19 AM »
Microsoft Digital Image Suite Library

http://www.microsoft...imaging/default.mspx   

Microsoft has discontinued its line of Digital Image Suite products*. Many of the digital imaging features and tools that have been enjoyed for years now can be found in new Microsoft titles and services including Windows Vista™. For more information Click Here
These products will be available in retail outlets while supplies last.
Customers will receive product support for up to three years from purchase date or through April 30, 2010, whichever date is reached first.
"Here" being a link to a Vista upgrade
Tom

f0dder

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2008, 05:12:33 AM »
It's a shame they discontinued Digital Image Suite, it was a very easy-to-use and pretty intuitive application (even one of the guys at the museum who suffers from very severe Negative Electrostatic Charisma is able to use it).

I have no idea how it scales with huge libraries though, and it doesn't have the most advanced features and tagging. And I really do need to find a replacement, since we need to get all the museum's photos and slides digitized and organized... ugh! :)
- carpe noctem

Babis

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2008, 05:54:42 AM »
I know it has been discontinued but in case he may find a copy, his sister will find exactly what she's looking for.

Dormouse

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2008, 02:46:51 PM »
I've only recently found this thread and have been a bit surprised at the lack of attention given to imatch and IDimager. IDimager even has a free version. Excellent and very responsive programmers. Capable of cataloging 100,000s of photos, with scripting abilities. Major database formats so your catalog can be transferred to other progs in the future should that ever be needed. I thought they would be very attractive to DC members who want to catalog a lot of images.

Not programs you want to use casually. For that Picasa or possibly PSE Organiser would be better.

Maybe Hert or Mario would consider doing a discount for DC. Too late for me - I'm already an IDI user.

tomos

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2008, 03:02:15 PM »
I think we got sidetracked by image viewers :)
Suleika also highly recommends IDImager

I've installed it but havent had time to mess around with it :-[
I know another problem is, as a hobby, photography is already expensive enough - (I'd love Lightroom meself ;))
but of course with the free IDImager I have no excuse
Tom

PhilB66

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2008, 09:21:45 PM »
@superboyac

Posted about ImageWalker in this thread. Looks like it could do the job.