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Last post Author Topic: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows  (Read 20013 times)

SirSmiley

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 07:50:20 PM »
The only way around that in script would be to retrieve the original timestamp(s) into a variable(array) then after updating comments reset the timestamp. What a pain.

PhilB66

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 08:36:48 PM »
Check out ChangeExt.

2007-10-11_093225.jpg  2007-10-11_093532.jpg

MrCrispy

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2007, 02:02:47 AM »
Ahh, if only WinFS had not been scrapped...... we would have had so much more.

J-Mac

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2007, 03:22:56 PM »
Just curious - any progress on finding a good tagging solution for home PC files?  Sounds like Tag2Find is still not quite ready for general usage.

Tagging would seem to be a great contributor to file and folder structure.  But only if it is consistent and doesn't change too much of the existing file structure.  BTW, I still cannot find any such feature in DOpus.  I had hoped that DOpus would have something to make tracking/grouping files easier, but it seems that I just have Windows Explorer with some added bells on it. Not quite as big a deal as I had first thought.  Of course I may not be using it to its fullest extent, but so far I have not gotten any good answers for doing a lot of the things I had thought DOpus would help with. Some of its advanced features appear to require scripting knowledge beyond what I am comfortable/familiar with!

Armando - any luck so far finding a good, solid tagging application for Windows?

Thanks!

Jim

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2007, 10:09:18 PM »
Just curious - any progress on finding a good tagging solution for home PC files?  Sounds like Tag2Find is still not quite ready for general usage.

well... It depends what you're expecting. I personally found that it worked quite well. The main reason why I didn't use it is because it didn't integrate with my other desktop search applications (X1, Archivarius, Locate32, farr)


But only if it is consistent and doesn't change too much of the existing file structure.

What do you mean?

BTW, I still cannot find any such feature in DOpus.  I had hoped that DOpus would have something to make tracking/grouping files easier, but it seems that I just have Windows Explorer with some added bells on it. Not quite as big a deal as I had first thought.

DO aficionados would probably want to torture you for saying that.  ;D
IMO DO is much much more than explorer with some added bells... Maybe it just doesn't have what you're looking for.

Of course I may not be using it to its fullest extent, but so far I have not gotten any good answers for doing a lot of the things I had thought DOpus would help with.

You could always use what they call "file collections"  (basically virtual folders). Although when I trialed DO, I didn't find them reliable for my own everyday usage : my filenames change all the time, and the file collections didn't seem to deal well with frequent name changes. There are other solutions in Total Commander and Speed Commander. Didn't test them though.

Armando - any luck so far finding a good, solid tagging application for Windows?

Nope. I think tag2find is what comes closest to what I'm looking for. But I'm waiting for the 2nd generation and a number of modification before committing any data to it. In the mean time, I'm using my own system and I've become used to it... I almost like it now How do you tag (or even organize) your files?. But takes some discipline.

J-Mac

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2007, 02:41:05 AM »
Just curious - any progress on finding a good tagging solution for home PC files?  Sounds like Tag2Find is still not quite ready for general usage.

well... It depends what you're expecting. I personally found that it worked quite well. The main reason why I didn't use it is because it didn't integrate with my other desktop search applications (X1, Archivarius, Locate32, farr)

Grrr.. I'm re-evaluating my desktop search application also - I think we discussed it in another thread. Copernic just isn't finding it all. Actually it is missing a lot. I used X1 for years but about a year and a half ago it started failing like clockwork every few months and required uninstall/reinstall each time, and cleanout of associated registry keys, etc. A desktop search engine shouldn't need so much care and maintenance - or maybe it does and I was getting spoiled! Looking at Archivarius, but the 10,000 file limit on the trial is stopping me from making the purchase - I want to see it work and that limit won't let me. I wish the developer would take that into consideration and free up the trial - just put a hard expiration in it.


Quote
But only if it is consistent and doesn't change too much of the existing file structure.

What do you mean?

I used Taglocity for a while with my Outlook email (I was using Outlook at the time) and it was still "growing up" at that time - but it left permanent changes in my PST even when I uninstalled it - oh the problems that befall those who spend their lives installing and uninstalling software! I wasn't sure whether or not Tag2Find made any hard-to-undo changes to the file structure like that.

Quote
BTW, I still cannot find any such feature in DOpus.  I had hoped that DOpus would have something to make tracking/grouping files easier, but it seems that I just have Windows Explorer with some added bells on it. Not quite as big a deal as I had first thought.

DO aficionados would probably want to torture you for saying that.  ;D
IMO DO is much much more than explorer with some added bells... Maybe it just doesn't have what you're looking for.

Of course I may not be using it to its fullest extent, but so far I have not gotten any good answers for doing a lot of the things I had thought DOpus would help with.

You could always use what they call "file collections"  (basically virtual folders). Although when I trialed DO, I didn't find them reliable for my own everyday usage : my filenames change all the time, and the file collections didn't seem to deal well with frequent name changes. There are other solutions in Total Commander and Speed Commander. Didn't test them though.

You know, even while typing that I kinda realized that comment would probably rub many the wrong way, but, hey - I was really tired and didn't take the time to sanitize the post. (Sorry to all DOpus diehard fans!)  In reality, DOpus DOES offer much more than that. But as I mentioned, some of the customizations - actually a lot of them - are not easily accomplished, unless one is a true technophile - and I'm only part technophile! Some changes required a little more registry tweaking and other code changes that I wasn't quite ready to attack myself.

Quote
Armando - any luck so far finding a good, solid tagging application for Windows?

Nope. I think tag2find is what comes closest to what I'm looking for. But I'm waiting for the 2nd generation and a number of modification before committing any data to it. In the mean time, I'm using my own system and I've become used to it... I almost like it now How do you tag (or even organize) your files?. But takes some discipline.


Well, seeing as I am not faring too well with my own desktop search applications here, it might be worth a look.

Thanks Armando!  I appreciate the time and effort taken to reply to me.

Jim

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2007, 02:58:21 AM »
but the 10,000 file limit on the trial is stopping me from making the purchase

Ask the developer : I'm sure he'll agree to send you a limitless version for testing purpose. He's nice. But, as Darwin said elsewhere, it can take a while before you get a response (it seems like he's alone...).

My feeling is that if you’re looking for something efficient — although a bit slow and incomplete for outlook PST files — you can’t really go wrong with Archivarius. In terms of precision, it’s really the best Desktop Search app I own. I do miss some of X1’s feature, and this is why I still use X1 for certain things. Since Archivarius has such a small footprint, I leave it open with X1, and update its index twice a day. It can take a bit of time to get familiar with its features and configuration, but once you get it, you realize how reliable it is.

I wasn't sure whether or not Tag2Find made any hard-to-undo changes to the file structure like that.

It might make some invisible changes to the NTFS alternate data streams. I do believe tag2find can erase any changes it applies to files.
But if you're worried -- and I understand why you’d be -- just ask the developers on their forum. They're very friendly and answer each and every question! I'd actually be interrested in the response they'll give you.

Thanks Armando!  I appreciate the time and effort taken to reply to me.

You're very welcome.  :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 02:59:58 AM by Armando »

Grorgy

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2007, 04:35:44 AM »
And its worth noting that while I use and like Archivarius, it isnt without its indexing problems.   I knew i had a file but archivarius wasnt finding it.  I eventually found it through just looking everywhere, fortunately it wasnt far away from the place it should have been, so then i double checked my search criteria, tried other words, and then i rebuilt the index, and it found it.  I have less than 10000 items in that index at this time so size shouldnt be a problem lol.

Anyway just thought i'd let you know that it to has its little quirks.  Ahh for a perfect system, and one that would make the coffee to, 8)

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2007, 12:05:38 PM »
And its worth noting that while I use and like Archivarius, it isnt without its indexing problems.   I knew i had a file but archivarius wasnt finding it.  I eventually found it through just looking everywhere, fortunately it wasnt far away from the place it should have been, so then i double checked my search criteria, tried other words, and then i rebuilt the index, and it found it.  I have less than 10000 items in that index at this time so size shouldnt be a problem lol.

Anyway just thought i'd let you know that it to has its little quirks.  Ahh for a perfect system, and one that would make the coffee to, 8)

Interesting.
I one wants archivarius to be reliable, the index has to be updated properly each time, all pertinent extensions included, etc. Many things to check.
And because I still can't trust 100% any of these desktop search... I use two to double check!  :)

kartal

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 08:17:26 PM »
Is this application under developement at all?

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2009, 09:52:58 PM »
Hi Kartal,
The development has pretty much stopped a while ago, but the developers are trying to "open source" it.

See : http://blog.tag2find.com/  and in particular : http://blog.tag2find...ance-for-the-future/


One of the last comment in the last blog post was from Martin, one of the developers (or team member behind Tag2find) :

Quote
#  martin Says:
January 19th, 2009 at 08:20

Hi,

you are definitly right that the community will take this up (that’s the reason why we want to do this). There are still some legal reasons which I can’t explain further, but they should soon be resolved.

Best regards,
Martin

Daleus

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2016, 02:31:12 PM »
Bump

Almost a decade on.

Still searching but has anyone discovered a good way of tagging files in windows?
Daleus, Curmudgeon-at-Large

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2016, 05:55:54 PM »
Interesting you ask! I have abandoned my quest a long time ago, but I just googled tag2find, etc. and found this

https://www.tagspaces.org

It's open source -- a great thing for that type of software...

The funny thing is that it implements the same solution I implemented myself 8-9 years ago. Basically, to avoid compatibility problems, writing the tags directly in the file names, using specific tag delimiters, etc. I described my method somewhere on DC. (Wonder if someone in their team read my description of if they just reached the same conclusions after an analysis of the situation.)

After at least 8-9 years tagging my files this way, I'm still finding it convenient. Using it every single day. People laugh when they see my file names, but I smile... they don't realize that I can group files on "any" subject (or combinations of subjects) in just a few seconds... in any OS or file system.

wraith808

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2016, 09:24:39 PM »
+1 for tagspaces

IainB

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2016, 09:34:41 PM »
@Armando: Yes, tagging the filename currently seems to be the only easy and practicable/feasible approach for meeting all one's tag/search requirements, and for a whole bunch of reasons. Essentially, the problem is solved by putting meta-data codes/keys (strings of A-N text) into the filename.

The main advantages of this approach would seem to be:
  • Tagging can more easily be made reliable, available, consistent and visible at the lowest common denominator (the filename, visible in any file browser and not locked-in to a separate/proprietary viewer; no use is made of the ADS, Registry, or a proprietary indexing system).
  • The file tags are persistent and easily changed if required - individually, or in batches (any filename editing utility, or mass filename editor will do; no proprietary tool is required and no use is made of the ADS).
  • The index database for the tags can be a common and non-proprietary utility already on the Desktop - e.g., the index database of (say) WDS (Windows Desktop Search), or other file indexing/search system of choice - e.g., I often use Everything.
  • If required, the tags searched can be treated as being in a structured notional/virtual hierarchy (regardless of their location on disk) - which can enable very powerful/useful filtered searches.
  • The structure of a notional/virtual hierarchy can be easily changed at any time, as required and without necessarily invalidating the tags already in use.

Aside from the perhaps visibly sometimes odd-looking filenames, the main disadvantage would probably be that tags make file names longer, potentially causing the LFN (Long File Name) or "path/file name too long" problem at some stage - where (say) nesting of files/folders occurs where longish file names have been employed. This PITA can especially occur in backup/archive directories/subdirectories, even though the original file paths may have no LFN problem.

However, the LFN hack in Windows 10 (only) apparently overcomes this problem in NTFS systems, though I am unsure whether it applies also to FAT file systems under all conditions, and certainly it apparently only works for Windows 10, and not the earlier Windows OS versions.

I recall there was a freeware app ("Tag-something" - maybe it was Tagspaces, but I forget the name) that ran as a Firefox extension, or something, enabling a tagging system in the file names. Out of interest, I tried it out and found it quite good, but it felt a bit clunky and was kinda superfluous, given that the filename tagging tool can be whatever tool one uses to edit file names - singly or en masse.
It used delimiters to identify the tags (thus potentially making the filename even longer), and I could never quite see a solid reason as to why delimiters might be mandatory, never mind desirable. So, I use tags in the filename, but not delimiters.
I am therefore curious to know your reasoning on this, as you write that you use delimiters. Could you please describe that?
(Thanks.)

EDIT: By the way, I, like you, have used tags embedded in the filename for years - starting in 1998, whilst needing a tagging capability on a large document management exercise. The users had differently (non-standard) configured PCs and we badly needed an LCD (lowest common denominator) approach, so that any user could use the tagging system, regardless of PC configuration or Win0S. Using filename tags was simple/easy for the users to understand as well.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 02:49:22 AM by IainB, Reason: Updated 2016-11-26 2149hrs »

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2016, 10:45:10 PM »
Hi IainB,
I generously described the method I use there .
IMO, delimiters are fundamental if you want to have tags in file names and some flexibility -- e.g. modifying tags in batch -- or any part of the file name -- without ruining your file names.
I actually use several types of delimiters and use regex and software like Renamer to batch modify file names. Geeky, but works well.
 
(BTW, the reasons I described back then -- numbered and all... -- for using filenames are almost the same as yours!  ;D )

IainB

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2016, 02:53:22 AM »
@Armando: Ah, thanks for that thread link. I think I understand your rationale a little better now. I didn't realise that you are using Regex and that you probably need to be using delimiters and sometimes using tags that may even contain meta-data about the tag hierarchy.
I consider that you are using a system with the potential for a high degree of granularity/definition, but it has the potential to defeat one of my earlier objectives, which was that the tags needed to be simple/easy for the users to understand and use.
Having said that, I reckon your approach may turn out to be the only way to go - using the available common technology.

Food for thought!    :Thmbsup:

By the way, it's probably not surprising that the reasons you described in that old thread, for using filenames, are almost the same as those that I gave. If it's a common problem in a common OS, with common constraints to a solution, then - given the nature of filenames - the solutions are probably going to be few in number and closely similar.

Rather than take this Tag2Find thread off-track, it might be worth bumping that old thread to discuss anything else about this: Re: How do you tag (or even organize) your files?

EDIT: I have cross-posted the salient bits to that thread anyway, just in case they might be useful.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 03:08:52 AM by IainB »

Armando

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Re: Interesting: Tag2Find, Tagging for All Filetypes for Windows
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2016, 11:08:27 AM »
it has the potential to defeat one of my earlier objectives, which was that the tags needed to be simple/easy for the users to understand and use.

Yes, it's somewhat abstruse. It was the goal though : I wanted something for me, not for "others"; and as I think I said elsewhere: for tags to not be mixed up with other terms, you need to codify them; otherwise, using a search engine will return all the other stuff you never tagged.


By the way, it's probably not surprising that the reasons you described in that old thread, for using filenames, are almost the same as those that I gave. If it's a common problem in a common OS, with common constraints to a solution, then - given the nature of filenames - the solutions are probably going to be few in number and closely similar.

Probably, but analysis I've seen are often not that systematic... :)