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Author Topic: 3rd Party Tools like Bibliography Addins  (Read 12703 times)
mouser
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« on: February 08, 2007, 07:02:26 PM »

Another important point is that some of us use addings like a bibliography tool (EndNote or Procite), which only work on MS Word.
I know that they have some bibliography funcitons built in, but I rely on my bibliography tool so much for academic papers that i wouldnt even consider switching away from MS until it was ported..
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urlwolf
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2007, 07:15:56 PM »

I spent half my day today just checking that.
I'm stuck with endNote6, and if I want to work with word 2007 I need to buy endNote X (with enote being a product that I hate after v. 7, they made it worse!)
One tool that I have found that works with OOo is bibus:
bibus-biblio.sourceforge.net/

I could move to OO and have a portable setup if that worked.
However, my conclusion is that Bibus has problems that make it unsuitable right now:
   No people et al. (2006):
   No prefix, suffix (e.g. blah, 2006) or (blah, 2006, p. 201)
   No backwards compatible with endnote (all my papers have endNote inserts!)

Other than that it seems like a nice solution. If I was starting from scratch, this would be a contender.

Plus, Zotero is working on word integration, that'd be the end of endNote in my view! Not a good time to pay for a newer verision of endNote!
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mouser
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2007, 07:35:30 PM »

i once considered making a free high powered bibliog tool to replace endnote.. someone should.  but it's a major job. it's something that in a rational society universities would band together and fund.
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Darwin
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2007, 08:01:03 PM »

According to their website, TextMaker has a built in bib feature... I use Endnote X myself. Endnote 5 (which was the previous version that I used) used to ship with a WordPerfect plug-in, but this is not the case with later versions (not sure when they dropped it). X supports a host of Wordprocessors via RTF formatting but only supports Word for CWYW (Cite while you write).

From the helpfile in Endnote X.02:

Quote
Use Format Paper (formerly called RTF Document Scan) to cite references and create bibliographies for documents that can be saved as RTF, including documents created with:

Microsoft® Word

WordPerfect®

OpenOffice

Adobe® FrameMaker®

StarOffice™

Microsoft® Works

WordPad

Almost any application that can
save as RTF (Rich Text Format)

To format references and create a bibliography (Cite While You Write) with Microsoft Word 2000, XP, or 2003, see How to Cite While You Write. While you can use the Format Paper feature to format Word files, it is much easier and more efficient to use Cite While You Write.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 10:51:14 AM by Darwin » Logged

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Darwin
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 10:54:40 AM »

Mouser, if you did code a bib package and made it a reasonable price you'd be a hero! If you made it donationware as defined at donationcoder you'd be a God! Given that you're a ProCite user yourself (if memory serves), you already know what people are looking for in this kind of application. I suspect that you haven't done it already because it's a big, big job, but just thought I'd add a note of support for the idea   Thmbsup I meant to mention it in my above post, but overlooked doing so...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 11:04:28 AM by Darwin » Logged

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mouser
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 06:19:58 PM »

This is one of my pet peeves because its something that academia should fund.. It's too big a job for me to work on without pay unfortunately.
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Darwin
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 11:27:15 PM »

Yeah. Even at "academic" pricing, unless the institution has a site license covering students, many students are expected to pay in excess of $100 for Endnote. I know that a lot of Universities provide site license coverage for grad students, but mine didn't... So I've got a chip on my shoulder about having coughed up the full price for it (couldn't prove that I was a student as Uni is in England, I am in Canada, and my student card expired long ago, though I'm still (barely) on the books). Anyway, it's a pet peeve for me, too, but I fully understand why you're not in a position to code it by yourself without some funding.
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2007, 02:15:23 PM »

It's a shame there isn't more support for these apps at the university level. I used EndNote for a long time, but got tired of the constant "encouragement" to upgrade from v.6. I switched to Procite and prefer it. Because of my work, I purchase at the academic price structure. The full retail for these two is excessive, imho, and reflects a tendency by some developers to take advantage of specialized needs. Maybe they know something I don't! 
tellme

Just my 2 pennies
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2007, 07:12:52 PM »

I'm secretly hoping that zotero develops a plugin for word and we can say goodbye to endNote. I agree, the functionality added in the last 4 versions  doesn't justify an update.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 07:15:29 PM by urlwolf » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 11:38:00 AM »

Zotero does now have word integration. We are calling it an "alpha," but it works fine in my experience; read more here: http://www.zotero.org/blo...t-word-integration-alpha/
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Darwin
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 01:39:04 PM »

Wow. This an interesting development - thanks for letting us know rrosenzw. I'm off to check it out.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 02:10:29 PM »

Anyone has made this zotero plugin work for Word 2007?
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zridling
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 09:31:35 PM »

Since a bibliography plugin/add-in is not a word processor, I won't include them in the review, and in fact, its complexity begs a mini-review or review unto itself. I do know that Word 2007's citation feature was perhaps the most debated topic for its beta. We all wanted it to work like EndNote, since its UI made so much sense. But once again, Microsoft went off and did its own thing, reinvented it, and immediately ran into a lot of problems which never got fixed. Microsoft did not understand the importance of this feature to the adoption of Word 2007, in my opinion, as they discarded virtually every suggestion and offer for help. So I urge others NOT to depend on the citation feature in Word 2007. OpenOffice's Base can be used for the same purpose, but you have to build it to suit your fields. You can also customize the layout in OpenOffice's Bibliography Database feature. Some academic departments have written plugin forms for OpenOffice, however.

Another consideration to building such an app would be that the various fields are constantly shifting and updating their formats every 3-5 years. Such a project would require a team to keep up with the changes and implement them, creating a huge time sink.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 09:41:53 PM by zridling » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2007, 11:04:51 PM »

This is the first I've heard (well not first I've heard of built in) of bibliography addins for Word Processors. I'm just use to getting the citations from the library (they offer you a email version or a endcite/procite version..granted you have to correct it so it's in APA style for it to be any use to me).

Anyway, I should take a look at it. Granted, I still prefer copying and pasting the citation (then fixing it to APA style) rather then inputting the info by hand. Wink
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rjbull
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 05:41:11 AM »

Probably not the kind of industrial-strength GUI you're looking for, but from Eric Pemente's AWK page:

Quote

# endnote.txt  - This is a really helpful file for people who write documents in plain ASCII (like Emacs or vim users!), and who want to insert footnotes or endnotes in their documents, but who want to be able to move their footnotes all around without renumbering everything. Basically, you use references like this[##] in your text, putting the actual citation (Dante, Book 3, sect. 2) directly below the paragraph. Rearrange the document to your heart's delight. When you're all finished, use this script  to sequentially number all your references, gather your notes together, and print them at the end of the file with numbers corresponding to the in-text references. Totally cool. Eric Meyer thought of it, and I wrote it for both awk and perl.

The same script is also available in perl if you'd rather.


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doug-jensen
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2007, 07:25:59 PM »

Zotero does now have word integration. We are calling it an "alpha," but it works fine in my experience; read more here: http://www.zotero.org/blo...t-word-integration-alpha/

Doesn't seem to support IEEE and ACM formats so many of CS and EE types can't use it.
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doug-jensen
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2007, 07:28:11 PM »

This is one of my pet peeves because its something that academia should fund.. It's too big a job for me to work on without pay unfortunately.

Most of the academics I know use TeX and bibTeX.
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Darwin
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2007, 10:09:46 PM »

Everyone in my department uses either Endnote or Procite.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 12:09:40 AM by Darwin » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2007, 03:56:07 PM »

I definitely rely on endnote x, but the main reason isn't citation and bibliography. 

Instead, I find it to be a fantastic database system.  Each record contains (a) the obvious bibliography information, often downloaded automatically through the "connect" feature; (b) my research notes on the source; and (c) the actual source if I downloaded it or scanned it into my computer.  In fact, every single document I download and plan to use is now stored in EndNote (nearly a thousand journal articles).

Until other "bibliography" software catches up with such features, I think EndNote will be hard to beat.
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2007, 04:43:48 PM »

Again, late to the discussion...   I'm currently evaluating a number of bibliographic software programs, after abandoning Citation 9, among them Biblioscape 7.04, EndNote Scholar's Aid, along with Nota Bene.

While EndNote has the cleanest interface and seems very stable, it simply will NOT import my Citation database.  Nor does Scholar's Aid.  Biblioscape and NotaBene brought in the Citation database without undue trouble [tho it's taking a lot of time fine tuning the info, getting into the proper fields].

Biblioscape has novel and, for me, essential note-taking capabilities that go well beyond what the others offer.  I'm liking what I see.  CAUTION, however:  even tho it is now out of beta, the program remains buggy.  "Fixes" are coming out every few days, and the developer is extremely responsive to comments in the user forum.  My fingers are crosed for this one!

Tom
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mouser
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »

I've always loved ProCite, and will never forgive the people behind endnote for buying it out and letting it die (Endnote seems to be by far the most maintained product).  I still use ProCite.
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