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Last post Author Topic: Humanized Enzo  (Read 11310 times)

tinjaw

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Humanized Enzo
« on: January 26, 2007, 05:48:43 AM »
I must confess, this may have already been mentioned already, I didn't check. I watched a short video on Enzo here and thought that it might be worth looking at further to see if there is anything that can be incorporated into FARR.

nudone

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 06:06:40 AM »
very interesting.

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 06:09:35 AM »
Link to my Find and Run Robot: here.

I actually got an email pointing to a Wall Street Journal article about enzo in the mail from someone. Looks a bit interesting but also a bit unusable to me in terms of this caps lock thing.  The article was the typical kind of article you might find, like as if the NY Times ran a column and said "You have to try out this magical program called 'UnheardOfPaint' it is an amazing kind of program for your computer that simulates paintbrushes digitally so that you can litterally "draw" on your screen in colors to create virtual images, and then even print them!! Will wonders ever cease?  You must try this new one of a kind unique program, which i as a columnist will just assume is unique and has never been written by other companies 10 years ago because i don't want to miss my pedicure by searching the web for other similar programs."  This kinds of columns really make you wonder.. Well maybe it pays to have friends in high places, and pays to have an advertising budget.    I've added it to the Related Programs page.

Regardless, don't want to sounds jelous.. might be some useful features to learn from. I'd be interested in hearing any features that FARR users see and want.  Maybe the window commands.. Hey that gives me a thought.. maybe i should incorporate some GridMove type functionality that would let you through text arrange windows in a grid like manner on the screen.  Like "movewin UL" to say to move/resize window to upper left corner, etc.  Just an idea..
« Last Edit: January 27, 2007, 01:48:30 PM by mouser »

nudone

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 06:25:38 AM »
i've just installed it had a quick go and then quickly uninstalled it.

i didn't like the idea of using the caps lock key before i downloaded the program and using it only confirmed this.

looks pretty but it's trying to be too clever and so i label it a failure. that because of how i use the keyboard no doubt.

only thing i can see to learn from enso is the ability to set options by typing on screen, i.e. to learn commands. i wouldn't really expect this to be implemented into farr - i don't think it's that useful. maybe it would be extremely useful for temporary quick things you wanted to set/remember.

justice

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 07:10:42 AM »
typing while holding a key costs more time then the 1 additional keypress (enter in case of FARR) saves although it looks quite elegant.

The 'switching between open programs' thing is interesting, i guess that's easily emulated with a couple of lines of autohotkey and an alias (except for the situation when the script does not link your input to any window)

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 07:23:23 AM »
Well managing running programs is actually on my todo list (switching to them, killing them, changing priorities), just seems like something better suited for a plugin so i've put it off for now..

Darwin

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2007, 08:42:44 AM »
Wow. Visited the website. Watched the videos. Read the review. YAWN...

The website is slick, the app looks pretty, the ideas are nothing new. So, while it was a pleasant viewing experience, it was not compelling and frankly I found the attempts to make me go "ooh, aah" about spending $64.95 for a suite with functionalities that have been available  for YEARS for far less or for free mildly offensive. Ditto the Wall Street Journal review, which insults one's intelligence. The reviewer should be fired for being so sloppy - hasn't this joker heard of any other keyboard launcher or spellchecker? How does he or his employer justify his continued employment? Are they really  paying him to warm the seat that he occupies in his office?

Going back to the app itself, I'd say that what the lead developer learned from his late father's experience at Apple has a lot more to do with hype than innovation...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

jgpaiva

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 08:46:34 AM »
EhEh Darwin.. My feelings exactly. Looks like the typical apple thing: make other's product beautiful, make it sound like a new revolutionary thing, make a cool webpage for it and sell it at 10X more than it's worth :)
From what i've seen in the movies, it doesn't sound to me that there's something important there.

JennyB

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2007, 01:43:59 PM »
I've been interested in this ever since Jef created the Canon Cat back in the 1980's. That was an amazing machine for its time. Ever since then it's been downhill all the way - more and more resources to less and less effect.

For a look at what Asa Raskin inherited, check out Archy
If you don't see how it can fail -
you haven't understood it properly.

nontroppo

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2007, 07:31:16 PM »
Lifehacker article on enso: http://lifehacker.co...r-windows-232582.php

Will FARR 3 be the killer quicksilver app on windows? It is indeed interesting why nothing has grown in the windows space as quicksilver has. I suspect OS X and its XCode frameworks are simply more integrated overall (along with universal applescript interfaces for many apps), and thus coding the many actions for launchable items comes together. The windows API simply doesn't make this easy.
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]

lanux128

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2007, 12:45:13 AM »
does lifehacker has something against Farr? i can't find Farr anywhere on their "Application Launcher" section.. ;)

nontroppo

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2007, 10:52:44 AM »
I do have to admit, that the Enso interface - at least according to the propoganda, um, screencast, is very impressive...

CapsLock takes some getting used to, though i'm happy it finally serves a purpose... ;)

The interface is very slick - a lovely modern serif font with two colours really simplifies the interaction. The use of text selection as a universal interface is really simple - something FARR would benefit from. The idea of actions sits at the heart of the app.

Downsides: incomplete indexing of start menu. having to manually type out everything except for arrow key selection. text selection bugs make e.g. "upper case" command fail.

Enso does have task control that I've wanted FARR to have for a while, though it doesn't work on my system yet!...
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2007, 10:54:05 AM »
Quote
The use of text selection as a universal interface is really simple - something FARR would benefit from.
can you explain more?

nontroppo

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2007, 11:03:47 AM »
According to the propoganda (reality is it is broke on my system), text selections are avalable for commands, so:

[selection]5+2[/selection] -> '[CAPS] Ca'

Will send the selected text to the calculator - results returned via paste from clipboard. '[CAPS] De' will define the text in the dictionary. Selecting files then: '[CAPS] open with app' will open the selected file in the chosen application. etc.

One neat one: '[CAPS] learn as' will take your selected file/URL and give it a tag, then you can [CAPS] open tag to open that file.

Basically you can do work on selections made in windows.
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 11:08:14 AM by nontroppo »

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2007, 11:05:44 AM »
farr now has the ability to send clipboard text to progams it launches, but it doesnt auto capture on each activation.. not sure i would want to do that..

nontroppo

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2007, 11:09:41 AM »
could you not:

1) Save existing clipboard
2) Copy selection -> do work on it
3) Return original contents if nothing else intervenes.
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]

cthorpe

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2007, 12:43:48 PM »
Don't think that is for me.  I'm just imagining trying to type with CapsLock held down, and I don't think I would be very efficient.

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2007, 02:32:19 PM »
Quote
could you not:
1) Save existing clipboard
2) Copy selection -> do work on it
3) Return original contents if nothing else intervenes.

true, that could be done.

Darwin

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2007, 03:27:01 PM »
I wonder if one needs to actually keep holding down the CAPS key while typing or whether the lock needs to be activated, the command typed and then the lock deactivated to enable Enzo's functionality (he asks with no intention of trying Enzo out for himself!)?
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

jgpaiva

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2007, 03:30:38 PM »
I wonder if one needs to actually keep holding down the CAPS key while typing or whether the lock needs to be activated, the command typed and then the lock deactivated to enable Enzo's functionality (he asks with no intention of trying Enzo out for himself!)?
from what i understood, you have to keep it down when writing and release it to execute the command. Not sure, though

nudone

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2007, 04:47:59 PM »
yep, you keep it held down whilst typing - which i have to say is one of the worst ideas i can think off.

but, of course, it depends how you use the keyboard. i do use the caps lock key for typing caps, i don't really understand why people often say that the caps lock key is superfluous.

anyhow, i tried enzo and just found the holding caps lock down a really dumb method of doing things.

Darwin

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2007, 09:24:41 PM »
Hmm... this is what has kept me from even considering trying it (along with other niggling factors like the price...) - I use the CAPS lock often and can't imagine why a developer would consider coopting it for another purpose, particularly as, if I understand correctly, there is no option for changing the trigger to one of the user's choice. I can understand the attractiveness of a single key trigger in comparison to Active Words or Nagarsoft's Direct Access because presumably it is ligher on resources - AW and DA have to monitor all keyboard activity looking for trigger words while Enzo only has to watch for the CAPS key trigger. Still, I think it an odd choice. Why not just go with convention and use ALT or CTRL-SPACEBAR as a trigger, type your word/phrase or whaterever and then ENTER or some other key or sequence of keys to execute the command? Really, using the CAPS key seems a bit twee - an attempt to be overly clever and "different" - and I fully expect to see it dropped, or at least the option to change it made available, imminently...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 09:34:17 PM by Darwin »

nontroppo

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2007, 01:27:37 PM »
Hm, I never have to write ALL CAPS for long, and actually, holding shift with my pinky does that without wasting time when forgetting CAPS LOCK is triggered, writing stuff then having to change it.

A single key is a really neat idea IMO (though they should allow users more options). I can hold CAPS LOCK with my pinky and hammer away really fast - no need to hit enter just lift the pinky!!! The problem is not the trigger key - the problem is that the launcher heuristics just plain suck. It has failed to index many of my programs so is useless - and has bugs just about everywhere on my machine. I would actually like an option for FARR (and quicksilver) that could trigger using this method. Mouser?

BUT lets not get distracted by trigger keys - what enso (in theory) and quicksilver offer that is really wonderful is a unified interface to do stuff using a subject -> verb -> object concept - it is what we have struggled with in discussions here about doing stuff with the subject in FARR. I find a file, and want to mail it to someone. Or move it somewhere. Or open it in something other than the dafault app, or append some text to it, or copy its content to the clipboard, or...

What I really want for FARR 3 (apart from faster searching), is this. It is the philosophy that a lancher can step beyond the subject. Currently in FARR we have to pull the mouse over and right-click to open an OS context menu which only has limited options.
FARR Wishes: Performance TweaksTask ControlAdaptive History
[url=http://opera.com/]
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 01:33:38 PM by nontroppo »

mouser

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2007, 01:35:29 PM »
i agree lets not get hung up over the caps lock junk.
im more interested in exactly what nontroppor says:
Quote
a unified interface to do stuff using a subject -> verb -> object concept - it is what we have struggled with in discussions here about doing stuff with the subject in FARR. I find a file, and want to mail it to someone. Or move it somewhere. Or open it in something other than the dafault app, or append some text to it, or copy its content to the clipboard, or...

as you know i've added simple actions using keyword modifiers but its not the unified interface weve discussed for version 3. 

i must admit though that i've had a hard time thinking of many real world cases where the simple single-action modifiers i recently added dont handle the problem, albeit inelegantly.  i welcome more thoughts but maybe we should do it on another thread?

Darwin

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Re: Humanized Enzo
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2007, 02:20:05 PM »
OK agreed let's put a cap on discussing CAPS  :D

I agree with nontroppo about the desireability of gaining Quicksilver's functionality under Windows. Note that, as I've stated in the past, I've never actually played with Quicksilver and don't even know anyone that has it installed. Anway, I guess I didn't read the Enzo hype, er, marketing closely enough to "get" that it is meant to be analogous to Quicksilver on the windows platform. Perhaps I should give it a blast afterall (quibbles about that which we will no longer obsess about aside). Actually, if I wasn't so stingy, I'd upgrade my iBook to OSX 10.3.x and play with Quicksilver to see what all the fuss is about (Quicksilver won't run under 10.2.x)!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin